/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

It's to learn something for the artist which you can't know without asking that artist.

>>3442715
And what did he learn? It's not even about him, as I have mentioned, it happens all the time, people's work doesn't get better.

To get better

>>3442714
>>3442721
Are you an idiot? Art improvement is incredibly slow and a long term process. This is like asking why someone would go to the gym to lift weights because the next day, he looks exactly the same as the day before.

>>3442714

>I know a guy who went to the gym a couple of times, why doesnt he look like arnold schwarzenegger yet?

>>3442714
his work is fine, don't be such a grouch

> So... what's the purpose?
did you...even read Loomis?

>>3442753
Yes. I just find it pointless (doing master studies) if everyone stays shit no matter what they do in that regard.

You know? Hard to find a purpose for doing that if it doesn't make you any better.

>>3442760
>Yes. I just find it pointless
lol

>>3442762
>Ignoring the rest of the sentence

how convenient

>>3442714
You do not learn playing music by invention or improvising, you learn from the best. Same works with art and if you do not understand it, you are not ready yet.

>>3442714
>army of tiny RJs
I'd off myself before I'd ever get near any of this.

seriously now, how long do you need to microwave your head to actually want to become a mini-RJ and copy his style completely? i look at RJ works and i not only dislike it, it is infuriating to me. it's the most reactionary shit i've seen. dragons, shiny armor, bitches with dead eyes and scraps of clothes, a parody style mix of random tribal face paint and jewelry …. always the same shit over and over again.

>>3442784
>Momatard and his discord shitposting in multiple threads
isp ban when

>>3442760
>I just find it pointless (doing master studies) if everyone stays shit no matter what they do in that regard.

Are you seriously too dumb to understand the concept of progress over time? I mean, I didn't even bother looking at the person who you posted, but are you seriously claiming you have never seen evidence of artists improving? Every artist you know of stayed exactly the same over the course of years no matter what they did?

>>3442806
haha, yeah spot on! i don't even do these gay art discords. stop projecting, Nambo jumbo.

>>3442862
But what are u doing right now? U spent 8 months in /ic/ screeching all days. This means u have no life. Where is ur moma friends, big clients, elite parties, exhibitions? This si bretty bad brah. Can't even bet lolis.

>>3442889
>oh boiz.jpg
what is this post soviet art supposed to prove, faggot? looks like Frida Kahlo with a brain damage and feminine benis.

I've been buisy creating art, is what happened, you loli faggot. all the while, you've been autistically shitposting RJ threads in the manner of a fucking bot. like "please everyone, i need you to approve time and again that my awful taste in dead illustration artwork is good!"

>>3442906
>shitposting 24/7 for 8 months
>I've been buisy creating art
lmao fookin looser

>>3442776
oh come on don't drag music into this

>>3442776
enter Dr. Lonnie Smith. one of the best Hammond organ player. never learned to play the instrument. all he did was discover it in a music shop as a boy and his dream was to get one. the shop owner told him "if you can drag it out of the store by yourself, it's yours" (Hammond organs are heavy). he never had any professional musical training.

and this is only one musician out of many who have never had musical practice, but learned by discovering it on their own. don't draw comparisons when you know fuck all about it.

>>3442922
>pedophilic faggot with anxiety and low self-esteem
>constantly wants to get praise for his superior taste in soulless chink art
kys

>>3442939
Im married, have successful career, know four languages, live in 1st world country and shitposting in /ic/ with my なかま for fun. How can u even compete? Ur cant even draw lmao. Oh its time to go, momatard. See next time.

>>3442714

stop bullying people, come on

>>3442952
You can. Style doesn't matter.

>>3442729
how is that even comparable? in what part of that analogy involves copying someones work to "learn" from. master studies are a joke. you dont suddenly understand lighting or color by doing them. thats not how it works. it doesn't matter how many master studies you do you will never learn anything from them.

>>3442963
OH NO NO NO

>>3442947
>"Nambo doesn't even post in here!"
- Nambo

lol, gotcha, faggot. saved and using this in the future. did you get a lot of "renew password" emails lately by any chance?

>>3442968
NO NO NO

>>3442968
only you faggots will know when its too late, stay mad

>>3442947
南保と呼ばれる悪名高い児童虐待

>>3442936
Well that's shit talk, because that musician based his music on something that he heard before and he used harmonies and phrases from other masters, just reinvented them differently and in a new way

>>3442989
Well that's shit talk, because that painter is using paint brushes and canvas like so many have done before him. So there is basically no innovation in anything anymore and everybody learned from all the master automatically and there's no other way around it.

>You do not learn playing music by invention or improvising.
i can't fucking begin to imagine how ignorant you must be.

>>3442989
Well that's shit talk, because that painter is using paint brushes and canvas like so many have done before him. So there is basically no innovation in anything anymore and everybody learned from all the master automatically and there's no other way around it.

>You do not learn playing music by invention or improvising.
i can't properly express how bloody ignorant that one sentence alone.

>>3442989
Well that's shit talk, because that painter is using paint brushes and canvas like so many have done before him. So there is basically no innovation in anything anymore and everybody learned from all the master automatically and there's no other way around it.

>You do not learn playing music by invention or improvising.
i can't properly express how bloody ignorant that one sentence in itself is. i'm a hundred percent sure you have never written a single musical phrase in your life.

>>3442976

>>3442996
>So there is basically no innovation in anything anymore and everybody learned from all the master automatically and there's no other way around it.
True. Art is dead because of modern art.

>>3442963
>in what part of that analogy involves copying someones work to "learn" from
in fact you don't mindlessly copy shit, you study them and try to undestand and internalize the process. Same shit for everything in art, grinding mindless shit won't help you that much at the same time just knowing the theory won't suddenly make you a good artist.

>you dont suddenly understand lighting or color by doing them
>you don't learn anatomy just by drawing the human figure
again, knowing the names of the muscles and where they are located won't make you an artist, you need to grind that knowledge inside you.

>>3442784
This is literally the definition of jealousy. You can dislike digital art no problem but your obsession with RJ is concerning, EVERY thread you vent your rage on him.

>>3443011
>This is literally the definition of jealousy.
except, it isn't. it's not even near jealousy. following your logic, someone who says they are disgusted at adult, healthy men shitting themselves in diapers to satisfy their fetish are reautomatically "just jealous".

>>3443011
>This is literally the definition of jealousy.
except, it isn't. it's not even near jealousy. following your logic, someone who says they are disgusted at adult, healthy men shitting themselves in diapers to satisfy their fetish are automatically "just jealous".

>>3443023
The problem is that you are the same shitposter who rages like a complete retard EVERY SINGLE TIME Ruan Jia is mentioned. It's also obvious that it's one or two shitposters considering that he used to be well liked some time ago and only recently these sperging posts against him started and they always use the same style of shitposting and the same dumb "arguments".

>>3443033
>surely there can only be one guy disliking Raygun Gayjob
how's periodically creating "Ruan Jia just did this and that!" for an obsession?
you don't even bother discussing his works. all you ever want to hear is "wow!" "yeah i agree he so cool!". so why don't you just fuck off and stop shitposting RJ threads on here entirely. you are on the same level as Illastrat. just start namefagging and collect your "ignorant asshole" badge.

>>3443033
>dumb "arguments"
yeah i figured long ago that anything that takes apart RJs shitty themes and styles is dumb to you.
t. literal child.

>>3443042
He's a well known artist in the industry and among /ic/'s crowd exactly like Feng, KJG and Craig Mullins, of course people discuss him. Also we didn's sue to make thread about each one of his new works until recently, probably someone like to trigger you fucks.

>>3443046
You're too dumb to understand that he's not a concept artist but a painter, you're supposed to admire his technique and style.

I mean, old masters also were mainly doing naked men with robes rapresenting some biblical scene or Greek myths but only retards would call them out for having always the "same themes".

>>3442714
>Doing a master study from someone who is still alive
No wonder concept art is such a shithole nowadays.

>>3443074
>you need to die to be a good artist
the absolute idiocy of this board.

>>3443062
>you're supposed to admire his technique and style.
hahaha, what's there to admire? his one-trick-pony tier color gradient on shiny armor shit? his pink hair schtick? his work is bloodless, repetitive, unimaginative and largely based on a decorative rendering method. for all i care, this guy could be a robot.

>>3442714
this is one of the worst threads in a while, grats everyone

>>3443079
I never said that, retard.
It's just studying from a living artist is retarded. If you want to know how they did something, drop them a damn e-mail instead of treating them like a god.

>>3442714
Please see >>3442729 and >>3442821

By OP's logic no one should ever study because after one study you wouldn't see remarkable levels of improvement.

>>3442963
You are one dumb mother fucker. The point of doing studies is to do hundreds if not thousands of them over time. With each one your learning a bit more about a super complex set of inter locking skills that make up creating art. No one has ever claimed that you do one single master study and POOF, you learn how to work like the "master". It's just one of hundreds of other types of studies you'll do amount thousands of studies over all you should be making.

Are you so stupid you think that artists post every study they do? Perhaps it might be they post only the good ones, or one single study they polish extra to make it look good? This isn't brain surgery dude. If you dont even understand how copying something can teach you thing you have little to no hope getting better.

>>3443062
Anon, that moma guy is pretty much schizophrenic or advanced rp shitposter. There is no other explanation considering how much shit he done by his first appearance on 4chan. Do you remember how random girl called his art shit? This was not healthy behavior at all. Hell, he unironically believe japanese artist posting here on 4chan. Just don't give him (You).

>>3443166
Is the "MOMA" artist the one who claimed you don't need to study any references/books/videos to get good, just draw as much as you can?

>>3442963
Pretty much this.

>>3442947
you don't have any of those things

>>3443116
Somehow out of these hundreds or at least tens of master studies people only post 1, maybe 2, sometimes 3. Yeah, your argument makes sense... not.

Also to repeat my point because retards seem to not understand: practice is good but I have never and I mean never seen anyone who got better with master studies. It's likely that they don't even realize that everything they did was copying some old work with hope that they will somehow ingrain the knowledge of that master.

Master studies are almost as pointless as learning color while not knowing how values work.

I asked a top-tier /ic/ artist in a direct message about how to improve and they kindly directed me to do a lot of master studies and still lives like they did. Here's a question: Why WOULDN'T those be the way you improve your painting, OP?

>>3442729
This. If you don't see how they're comparable you're honestly a fucking idiot. Your brain doesn't just learn shit the very first time it does anything out of the ordinary the same way your muscles don't just get enormous the first time they lift something heavier than they're used to. These things take a lot of time and a lot of repetition. If you can't accept that you are NOT going to make it.

Crabs ought to be boiled on sight.

>>3443394
>It's likely that they don't even realize that everything they did was copying some old work with hope that they will somehow ingrain the knowledge of that master.
This is a good point but it's not at all isolated in the practice of master studies. This is a problem that can be attributed to how vague the notion of study can be to some people.

>Master studies are almost as pointless as learning color while not knowing how values work.
Master studies aren't pointless because believe it or not trying to analyze artists whom are both superior and whose work you admire is actually worth your time. The keyword is study, not copy.

Can somebody explain me how am I supposed to do a master study? When I look at let's say pic rel, I don't know how the artist did it. I mean, if I knew, I would be able to do something similar, but I can't. So if this is about reverse engineering, it's hazy guess work at best.

And even when I set a goal like "getting good values in my work like here", I still won't be doing the same thing he is to achieve that result, because I simply don't know the logistics.

>>3443415
>And even when I set a goal like "getting good values in my work like here", I still won't be doing the same thing he is to achieve that result, because I simply don't know the logistics.
You need to get even more specific than that, what is it specifically about your understanding of values that you want to improve? After you pin that down, what is it in this piece that you can identify will help you better understand the problem you're faced with? It's also very possible that you're simply not at a level high enough to even really have the questions that a master study can help with.

The point is to look at the work of whoever you consider to be a master, identify the way that they understand and solve problems, and then make that relative to how you understand and solve problems. That's at least one way to go about it anyway.

>>3443424
If you're not at the level then just do them and you'll get better anyways? Noah Bradley for example makes you do them right from the get go because apparently they're what he considers the best for learning. Would that mean simple value exercises and such like still lives have not as much value?

>>3443431
Whatever you consider to be the "best" way to study is really relative to your current understanding of whatever aspect of art that you're trying to improve. If you don't know how light interacts with forms or your drawing skills suck then still lives and other studies from life are probably going to help you a lot. I don't know what Noah's classes are like but maybe if he starts with assigning everyone a master study he can better gauge the level of his students and at the same time have an original piece that he can point to when offering criticisms and comparisons.

Back to my first point though, if your values in general just suck then studying from life isn't a bad choice, after doing a couple of those then maybe you can come back to whoever you consider a master and try to figure out how they demonstrate their understanding of value in direct comparison to yours.

>>3442714
Ideally you are supposed to analyze the technique. That's basically an artistic equivalent of making notes while reading some textbook.
But crabs use it as advanced procrastination method: you get a shiny piece in your portfolio while also making it look like you are intensively studying and learning something.

>>3442784
>bitches with dead eyes and scraps of clothes, a parody style mix of random tribal face paint and jewelry
Perfection.

>>3443415
>I don't know how the artist did it.
Thats the whole point moron. You don't know how to do anything thats complex until you study it and try to do it, fail a few times a break down the steps. You're obviously not going to unlock RJ's technique after one attempt at copying a single image. It takes years with repeated practice and work improving your other skills. The whole point is trying to copy his brush strokes, values, color, how he draws and paints parts of the body and how he renders forms. You'll pick u little stuff here and there to use in your own process.

If you can't even draw a stick figure then trying to copy some highly realistic image probably won't do much for you. The concept is so simple I'm not even sure how to verbalize why or how you do a master study.

Part of the problem is the IC hand holding mentality. Rather than just putting your nose to the grindstone and working hard, trying stuff out for yourself, everyone wants to be told the value of something before doing it. What are you afraid of wasting your precious time? What the hell are you doing thats so important versus a career or future? playing vidya? The people you look up to and want to be like got to the level they did because they just made art, made studies, figured out what worked and why it worked for themselves as they were improving. They didn't need to be walked through every step with a tutorial or nursemaid like a little bitch. The real reason 99% of IC won't make it is because they're too damn lazy.

>give me an excuse not to do "x" because I can't be bothered but I don't want to feel bad about myself. But you watch, someday someone will see my amazing talent and hire me.

>>3443784
Alright, if you put that way, I can agree with you. I admit that I have this handholding problem but that is mostly because I don't have much time left (my parents gave me one year and then I have to move out). It is true that I have to experiment and study everything but at the same time I am trying to cut corners in ways that make sense, for example not every study has to be beneficial to my growth, study smart not hard etc. I never did a proper master study and on a superficial level it seems to be useless but then again it's superficial. Maybe if I make hundreds of them, then I will take something from that, maybe it is that way.

I guess I am just fucked, because I need more time for this line of business, if it's really that hard as you say.