/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3429323
part of the super powers they got from bombs
lets wait awhile before having this thread next yes?

Those drawings really aren't that impressive, several poses are repeated and about half of the girls have the same face. Also how many jap/anime worship threads do we need in the catalog? there's already a couple

>>3429323
They don't. They have pose books for virtually every cute and everyday life movement a woman can possibly make.

>>3429329
All the way down to their shoes.

>>3429323
Just drawing a fuck ton, drawing characters you're familiar with in simple standing poses is one of the easiest things to do from memory. Everyone uses reference for things they're not familiar with though, for example planes, boats, machinery, weird animals, it's a journey.

anyone responding seriously to covert "how do I" threads need to be shit in their dominant arm

>>3429329
>>3429330
Where do I get these.

>how do japs draw one character without reference

>>3429338
japan

>>3429338
http://www.animebooks.com/lidrre.html

>>3429323
Practice

>>3429323
They use same face

>>3429323
they use preston j blair fundamentals instead of confused loomis construction and random tutorial fundamentals

>>3429398
That is literally the same thing Loomis does?

>>3429398
Pretty sure they're not using this.

>>3429403
well they do, just with anime features instead of rodents, anime is a direct descendant of disney cartoons remember
>>3429400
no it's much simpler, based around volumes and lines instead of measurements

>>3429323
Practice drawing silhouette. It's a pretty big component of design, and helps in drawing from imagination. And I mean actually doing a set of figure drawings by doing just the silhouette.

>>3429326
Post ur work let's see your CUTE girls.

>>3429365
Is there any scans of any of these books out there?

>>3429430
Please elaborate. Is that the same as just trying to draw the outline of something.

>>3429411
>anime is a direct descendant of disney cartoons
this meme needs to stop

Asians have experimented with animation and visual depictions in book format, far before that. Disney's first animation was in 1928, and the french had their first experiments around 1910 just as an example.

Literally nothing from the western media has been absorbed by the nips, literally nothing in a whole century. On the contrary, western authors and directors have been straight out stealing concepts and ideas from Japanese creators since the early days, it's just much more well known nowadays due to the internet.

One of the reasons why Hayao Miyazaki hates being compared to Disney.

>>3429411
obviously if you want to draw semi realistic humans, you'd have to do add different proportions and a few extra measurements. Are you stupid?

>>3429485
yes, it's literally the first thing any art teacher will tell a beginner to stop doing because it is a terrible habit. Don't listen to crabs who have no idea how to draw. If pretty much every good artist in history tells you "draw with volume and try to draw through the figure, don't draw the outlines", don't listen to the one anonymous crab who tells you to draw with contours.

>>3429326
Post your Work.

>>3429323
Massive amounts of repetition. If you can remember what it was like to draw your favorite cartoons as a kid with no construction, that's essentially what they do. They just kept at it for so long they've become incredibly proficient at it.
It's good for drawing very fast. The downfall of it is that they fail pretty hard at drawing things they're unfamiliar with. Whenever you see some anime character drawing with weird feet or the face looking like shit from a not eye level angle, that's an anime character trying to break out of his comfort zone.
It's easy to spot the artists that have actual training.

http://i.imgur.com/pUH2lJV.jpg

>>3429499
>Disney's first animation was in 1928
Disney made cartoons in the silent era years earlier... And I don't know if I found the particular anime you are talking about but what I found appears to be particularly influenced by Bray Productions.

The west did take ideas from Japan (Art Nouveau cough cough) but this weeb historical revisionism needs to stop.

Anyways those Preston Blair pages directly apply to anime.

>>3429338
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4768309674/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_mcE2AbSMSHYHS

>>3429442
>>3429514
Not him, but he is right you know.

>>3429329
>>3429330
>They don't.
They're. Your shitty pose book only good for illustration and studies. Wait a second I will find screencap from Bahi twitter about how he was ashamed of using references after meeting "legends" IRL. He's basedboy who always delete his tweets.

>>3429329

>>3429330
>relying on those shitty pose books
What is even the point of trying to improve if you need a fucking reference everytime you want to draw something???
This is one of the biggest motivators I have for drawing from imaginatuon and muscle memory, fuck spending hrs trying to find specific poses and gestures this shit is stupid.

>>3430305
>showing off your low power level
A mistake that you'll deeply regret.

>>3430310
Who cares
Im begunning to realize that relying on references is a crutch. None of the masters like kim jung gi use them despite every other shithead artist reassuring you that absolutely everyone does to keep you in forever beginner mode.

>>3429499
>One of the reasons why Hayao Miyazaki hates being compared to Disney.

and yet he tends to make the same kind of cutesy and overly empty crap they do, especially since he got noticed by the oscars

>>3429499
osamu tezuka, the father of anime, was heavily inspired by disney movies like snow white..........

>>3430322
I take it you're one of those people who also hates life drawing.

Wait... Are you Dobson?

>>3429323
by having spark
if You don't have talent don't even attempt art

>>3429508
>>3429485

It is an important exercise. Do it as often as you can alongside your other exercises. Don't listen to this stupid fucking crab. Drawing with volume and through the figures is important. But at the end of the day you're drawing a 2d shape on a 2d surface. Without an awareness of that you will never be able to design properly. The first thing your brain notices when you look at anything is it's overall shape or silhouette. I've seen it described as an important exercise over and over, Keys to Drawing mentions it, various gesture drawing books as well. And it really works. Once you train your eye to see silhouette, you're able to draw from imagination better. Images sorta pop into your head. At the end of the day it's about moving from specific to general shapes, which are easier to remember, and create. So basically don't start eye to eye. When Kim Jung Gi or any other artists draws that way, they're visualising the entire picture beforehand, and I sincerely think training to see silhouette is part of the process. It's not black and white. Do all of it. Construction is one part. Silhouette is another.

>>3429508
>Contour drawing is a meme.
Fuck off to /beg/

>>3429323
they actually LIKE drawing

>>3430322
you realize kjg has been drawing for so long that everything is basically automatic for him, right?
it's almost like he's been practicing day after day for many many years

>>3430589
He doesnt rely on references for drawing things shit and hasnt for majority of his career. Thats one of the things hes most known for.

He has an abnormal ability and can draw insanely detailed images by just just his memory alone. He doesnt use pose books ir google stock photos whenever he wants to draw something

>>3430623
>By memory alone

You know... In order to get the memory of an image... You still have to look up or take a photo of said pose, yeah?
In cooking, you typically have to read the recipe several times before you start remembering things. And the more you cook, the more you adjust and understand how much pepper you should put in a stew or exactly how long to fry something.

As you look up poses and practice them, you practically can replicated the same poses by memory alone. Just like how you learn anything. Even if you master anatomy (which you would still need to look up poses for to know how exactly some muscles stretch), it would still be difficult to simply create poses from nothing.

However, like I said, you can draw from memory/imagination alone given enough time to practice. What is best to do is to just compile your own folders for poses and categorize them to your liking. Thus, searching for a particular pose will eventually no longer be an issue.

>I personally do at least a sketch of each pose I save before I save them. It helps me remember them better

>>3430623
>He has an abnormal ability and can draw insanely detailed images by just just his memory alone.

Yeah but the point is, he does have said memory. You don't. If you want to draw a girl riding a bike from a certain angle, you either have an exact memory of a bike and a female human figure, her clothes etc in your head that you can turn around in space, or you have to look up references. Or you draw a shitty, symbol based replica of what you think that would look like without really knowing.

>>3430322

>Im begunning to realize that relying on references is a crutch.

Hoo boy are you screwed.

> None of the masters like kim jung gi use them

The cult of Kim Jung Gi will destroy this board.

Realize two things.

1) You are not him, and you probably never will be.

2) Plenty of other "masters" make extensive use of reference.

Thinking using reference is wrong somehow is the most absurd thing I've seen come out of this god-forsaken hell hole of an "art community"

>>3430792
>Not that guy

While I agree it would be uncanny if you just memorized countless objects at weird angles, but given enough practice and understanding of anatomy and perspective, you should be able to properly draw a figure and apply the proper weight and gravity to her body mass and clothing.

I'm not against looking up references in any way. The guy you're replying to is an idiot, but I just don't agree with your statements here.
I can draw many objects and bodies at odd perspectives because I've applied time and practice into understanding how it all works.

Given I drew more bicycles, I could probably even draw a proper sketch of a girl riding a bike at an oddly specific angle. And with some objects, I don't even have to see it at a new angle to properly understand it's dimensions, scale, and weight.
Just like how most people here will memorize how specific clothing fabrics will bend/crease/fold.

I guess our opinions vary slightly due to how different we are when it comes to experience and study.

Without disagreeing with the people who think references are important, I think you guys are underestimating the ability of the mind to create procedurally. By that, I mean creating based on a set of rules, like those demo games that generate textures from math rather than images.

I tend to draw figures and clothing entirely without reference. I rely on drawing order and knowledge of physiology and clothing design and behavior to guide the drawing process. I'm sure most of you already do the same with lighting. Rather than remembering how something is lit, you're simulating the behavior of light.

You can do this with figures and clothes, and interior design, and machines, etc. An artist like KJG probably has enough architecture and engineering knowledge to create those things without recalling from a reference. It's far less taxing than trying to remember everything visually.

>>3430795
>Hoo boy are you screwed
Sure i am, retard....
Thats why ic is full of so many great artists
>plenty if other "masters" make use of reference

>>3430795
Name them

>>3431025
There's another thread with some screencaps of junji ito and he uses reference. So unless you can draw better than him you're full of shit.

>>3430796
i an idiot because i dont want to be one of those shitters that has to pull up a google stock photo every time he struggles with a pose? Fuck you you pribably draw chibi anime girls all the time

Do you even understand how much that ruins the process? How much time it takes?
Drawing from imagination is literally understanding the shape and form of something without ever needing a reference that is the entire point you dick head.
Good luck being stuck as a shitter the rest of your life. Im smart enough to escape that pitfall and idc what any of you losers do

>>3431029
i knew you were going to name drop some literal scrub.
Junji ito is a shit artist and draws the exact same face on all his characters get some better taste

>>3431035
And yet he can draw better than you ever will. "sameface" is not an argument and in this case completely wrong.

>>3431036
You have no idea what I can draw faggot. For all you know I'm better than than hito loser

They learn basic symmetry then create their own style. Ez. My lil white sister has it on tap just takes a few years of practice and natural artistic talent on the side.

>>3431070
You have a lil white sister? Where did you purchase one and does she pose for you?

Is ignoring life studies and calling using references a crutch going to be the hottest new meme here? Don't tell these retards that the only reason the pros can draw right out of their head is because of how extensively they've inspected and drawn from life and photographs.

>>3429323
>How do japs draw without reference?
What the fuck do you mean they are tracing hacks and human copying machines

Find me pose book reference for this
>https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/15523
this
>https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/15522
or this (they used Disney's tech for Lancer vs Assassin fight
>https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/49782

>>3431248
They can't and are too proud to admit their pose books are just a crutch.

Yeah, artists like Bahi JD relied on references at one point in time, but they realized it was just was holding them back and decided to actually learn the shape and form of things down to a science so they don't have to waste time doing that hs.

>>3431248
You don't just magically jump to this point without ever using reference you fucking twat.

>>3431272
No shit you need to study. Posebooks are good for different angles, like @animesijyuku said. Animators have thousand action figures too.

>>3431301
So what was your point? You still need reference.

>>3430187
Japs say things like that to show submission.

>>3431304
>You still need reference.
When you study. Go watch Vilppu video about figure drawing for animation or Shiika Sadamasa stream. He is hobbyist)

>>3431027
>>3431025

James Gurney.

Simon Stallenhag.

Andrew Wyeth.

Jan van Huysum.

If you talk trash about any of these guys, your opinion is worthless.

I mean, it already was, but that just confirms it.

Sargent was a cuck loser for using models. If he was as good as people say he was, he'd just paint from his imagination. KEK!

>>3431207

I can't fathom this board sometimes. Opinions and ideas that have NO currency in either the commercial or fine art world get so popular here.

Things that real artists wouldn't even *think* of.

People spend more time justifying why their opinions are correct or denigrating successful artists that don't do the things the way they think they should, than they ever spend on actual work or study.

>>3431550
>james gurney
He's a fucking hack. Which is ironic considering he published a book on drawing from imagination, but it doesnt actually tell you anytging on actually doing it, much like his Color and light book doesnt tell you anything about painting. Hes about as much of a "master" as Bob Ross is.
>Simon Stalenhag
Saw his work shilled here a while back and why di you consider him a "master"??? Hes literally a generic concept artist that photobashes evrrything and the only reason ges relevant now is because he adapting a popular book into a movie. Fuck off

I dont even know who those other guys are but they are probably scrubs as well.

>>3431628
Well said, KJG is a true master

>>3431027
Donato Giancola outright traces and presents those techniques in his videos.

>>3431628

>james gurney
>He's a fucking hack.

Suspicions confirmed.

>Color and light book doesn't tell you anything about painting.

I'm sorry you need your food pre-chewed before you can digest it.

>Hes about as much of a "master" as Bob Ross is.

I figured you'd like Bob Ross, since he painted without reference.

Anyway he was a much better painter than you'll ever be.

>I don't even know who those other guys are

Pleb.

Anyway I'm 100% sure you're just shitposting now, so I guess there's no point in continuing this conversation.

>>3429323
You already know the answer : they train. HARD!

>>3431628
James Gurneys book on Colour and Light is probably the best entrypoint to painting and color theory you could ever come across.
I don't know how you could slap him as hack when he encourages you to apply his techniques on knowledge onto your own.

>>3431798

Probably because it's about COLOR and LIGHT and isn't focused on specific painting techniques, and Einstein here thought it was going to be some kind of paint-by-numbers kit.

>>3431798
Scott Robertsons how to Render is a superior book in that regard
>>3431815
Youre so clever

>>3431857

>Youre so clever

Inasmuch as I can figure out how to apply principles to my work without having my hand held, yes.

Also are you ever going to learn how to use apostrophes?

>>3431857
>Scott Robertsons how to Render is a superior book in that regard
true, but's also more advanced.

>>3431870
>HAHAHAHA HE FORGOT THE APOSTROPHE WHAT A FUCKING IIIIIIIIIIDIOT

>>3431873

Poor grammar, general ignorance, bad taste and misplaced anger do begin to paint a portrait of the kind of person I'm dealing with here. I think you type without thinking too hard. It's likely you speak without thinking too.

Anyway, you'll never be Kim Jung Gi. Not in a million years. No matter how hard you try you'll never be him. Not if you practice 12 hours a day.

Only Kim Jung Gi is Kim Jung Gi.

I'm only trying to point out that Kim's methods work for Kim, but they won't work for everyone.

Any wannabe artist should only try to be themselves, not a copy of an already successful artist.

There are many ways to achieve artistic goals. Some involve heavy reference, and some involve more purely imaginative drawing. It varies from artist to artist, and indeed from piece to piece.

But since you have bad taste, a bad attitude, and anger issues, you were probably doomed from the start anyway.

>shitting on James Gurney
>retards unironically believe they can paint on his level without references
>they think they can build entire town and render it without references
>while all realist painters use models and references
golden

>>3432031
Youre one of those guys that excuses pic related

>>3433315
No retard. Did you even paint?

>>3433315

This is some kind of advanced stupid...

>>3433315
tracing is not the same as using a reference. Do you even understand how artists use reference or are you just an autistic sperg?

>>3433320
cover your face with paint.
and die.
>>3433332
Yeah you really proved me wrong with that earth shattering revelation. kys
>>3433335
>trace
Who's to say he didn't just use these as references
:^)
bitch.
say one more word.

>>3429323
If you can't draw anything without reference you REALLY need to practice construction and visualization.

What you need to do is learn how to draw the bones/muscles and basic underlying structure of the human body. Okay, next step is learn to draw the bones and the basic underlying structure of the human body. No that wasn't a mistake, chances are you don't actually know the underlying structures of the body as well as you've deluded yourself into believing, so go do it again, in fact keep studying it. You're never done.

The second step is to do lots of figure drawing. Constantly. Like you should do at least 20 a day MINIMUM, it shouldn't take more than an hour or two but what matters is that you do it constantly without taking more than a week break. Give this a year or so and you should be able to draw comic book tier drawings from your imagination with very little reference needed.

Now, You should draw with reference regardless of how well you can draw from imagination. The key here is to not rely on the reference but to simply use it as a tool to inspire you and help you develop your OWN IDEA.

>>3433341

NGMI, but, unironically.

>>3433341
>>trace
>Who's to say he didn't just use these as references

you don't understand what references are supposed to be used for. References are for understanding the subject you are drawing, not copying it 1 to 1.

>>3431030
Not that person but I see where you're coming from. I usually experiment a shit ton and then check to see if it's off.

>>3433374
it's not about whether or not you can draw it without reference, but the fact that you can almost always draw it BETTER when using references. (not relying on it or being a slave to it. USING it) So why limit yourself?
>"B-but Kim Jung Gi does-"
You're not KJG, stop pretending like you are equal to him and that you have his memory and visual library to work with. You don't.

>>3431042
>>3431035
the absolute state of /ic/

>>3433315
>Being this retarded