/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

At the moment.

the act of drawing is hard. the finished product is rewarding though.

Most of the people here are result driven instead of actually enjoying the process, so most are easily diaappointed and just spend the majority of their time loathing and shit posting

drawing is actual agony for me because i know my work is pure garbage, even a 10 year old can draw better than me

im sure at this point its just pure masochism that keeps me going because no sane person would keep this shit up

>>3383406
I have a career in art.

I've drawn since I could hold a crayon. My mom said that's all I did as a kid, was draw, or read. I was in trouble in school constantly for doodling on my notebook or on my homework. I always draw. I keep a pencil and paper on my desk, when I need to think, I doodle. When I'm on the phone, I doodle. Drawing to me is like breathing, I just do it. Almost every artist I've ever known is the same way.

To be honest, most of the people here don't want to be an artist, they just want free porn. That's fine, but stop pretending art doesn't take talent and creativity, passion, motivation, and hard work. It's a lifelong committment. I don't know of any creative pursuit, be it music, writing, dance, art, sculpture, whatever, they all have the same common reality - the people who succeed love doing it. Joe Satriani didn't whine about hating to do scales. Stephen King doesn't write about forcing himself to write.
Every person that sets out in pursuit of a creative field doesn't make it, either. Some people just aren't cut out to develop into artists, for a myriad of reasons. I'll never be Joe Satriani, even though I've played guitar, and studied hard for a long time. But I can do things with brushes and pencils he can't.
If you don't enjoy doing it, why do it? Agenda. And that's not enough to make it.

>>3383406
I really like drawing - it’s a great leisure activity, but I’d never do it for a living

good lord capcom art is so beautiful

I like drawing but i don't think I could ever do it for a living, I'm so bad about comparing my work to others it would drive me insane to try and make a living off of it. But I still want to keep drawing and get better at it, but being in the head space of 'it's just a hobby' has helped me to be a little easier on myself.

>>3383406
I hate drawing but I can't stop

>>3383406
i hate it because im shit at it and i know its an uphill battle because most artist started young

>>3383465
fucking this
end us

>>3383406
I've probably made half those posts that you're referring to. I like drawing a lot less than many other things, but I also want very badly to be able to draw well, so I keep going.
Fortunately, I think it's gotten at least slightly more fun as I've started to see improvement. I was drawing tonight, for example, even though I had already finished my "scheduled" time for the day, and I didn't even have to force myself. So hopefully my enjoyment continues to trend upward as my skill increases. I'll keep going whether I enjoy it or not, but obviously enjoying it would be nice too.

>>3383465

Post Art.

I'm basically like this >>3383480 too. I simply feel compelled to do it. Even if in the end I'm not able to fully support myself on it it's something I would keep doing because I love it.
But lately it has been really unpleasant to do because I keep going into some kind of spiral of horribly negative thoughts.

>>3383480
A few things.
Based on the way you talk, you seem to take pride in how much you love drawing - i.e., how much pleasure drawing gives you. But I don't see anything honorable in the way you approach art at all. By your own admission, if you stopped enjoying drawing, then you would stop drawing - and why should you be proud of the fact that you would quit something as soon as it wasn't fun anymore? Compare someone who says "I draw for 8+ hours a day because I love doing it" with someone who says "I masturbate for 8+ hours a day because I love doing it". The artist might seem more honorable than the chronic masturbator here, but ultimately they're both doing the exact same thing - following their instincts and seeking pleasure, only it so happens that the target of their pleasure is different. The difference between you and some lazy ass who plays video games all day is not in your fundamental outlook on life or the strength of your character, but in the fact that you were lucky enough to be born with instincts whose fulfillment also happens to bring some benefit to other people.
Your model of success is that people are born with certain desires, these desires are immutable, and people can only be successful at endeavors that fulfill their desires. Although I am a strong believer in innate talent, and that our innate abilities play at least some role in shaping what we're able to do, I also think that the model you've outlined here is so deeply pessimistic about the human capacity for growth and change that we have an almost ethical duty to resist it. It completely robs people of the ability to make choices about the course of their lives and to shape who they want to become based on their experiences and the values they acquire. Taken to the extreme, it would make us nothing but slaves to our desires; we could do nothing without first consulting them, our horizon of possible experience would be completely limited by our desires.
(cont.)

>>3383480
>>3383572
(cont.)
You say "if you don't enjoy drawing, why do it?" I don't know what you mean by "agenda", but I can think of a few reasons, some better than others: to make people happy; to communicate certain emotional or experiential states; to encourage people to take a different view of a common phenomenon; to win friends or a following; to create things that are beautiful; to illustrate a moral or philosophical point; to make a contribution to the dialogue on art theory and art practice; to advance a social or political cause; to exert influence on the direction of a field of art; to leave a personal legacy; and probably many others I'm forgetting. The fact that you are either unaware of or dismissive of all of these reasons again reiterates to me that you have a very simple and immature worldview that is based on pleasure alone. Consider what would happen tomorrow if everyone in the world stopped doing things that they didn't want to do.

>>3383406
The process of art itself is loathsome, but I always want to draw what I want to see.

>>3383406
I love drawing. I feel like I am pulling out and carving colors from my canvas whenever I paint (digitally). The feeling is honestly indescribable, and even though I am barely intermediate, it is fulfilling and is something I can see my myself making a career in.

>>3383406
Not really, I enjoy telling a story. Art is a means to that end

Drawing is fun. I think people should become more optimistic while they draw art.

>tfw look at another one's artwork.
>tfw you make lines.
>tfw you learn something and are able to improve yourself.
>tfw when you are able to fix your mistakes and through that you become faster and better.
>tfw when you're able to make your own artwork through hardwork.
>tfw you look at your own artwork and you are able to smile cause you're able to put your imagination.
>tfw when you are able to give your life a meaning.

The moment you fell in love with art is the moment you're able to become happy.

I'm at a highly regarded art school, I love painting but fucking hate drawing

>>3383406
seems understandable to me, you don't need to like learning scales to want to be a musician.

the funny thing with /ic/ is though that people want to take a 'learn the scales' kinda path. like they're always looking for exercises to do instead of drawing pictures. so idk, maybe they want to hate it, perhaps that makes it feel like it's worth doing.

I love drawing, but i find the process of trying to improve my stuffs kinda painful though, everytime i post my stuffs here for critiques i just end up loathing my drawings more and more, shooting for an overly high standards
The fact that a lot of people on /ic/ love to go out of their way making their critiques sound as dickish and demeaning as possible didn't help

>>3383480
I read Joe "baldy" Satriani, I approve.

I love drawing until I realize I can do better, and then I hate it.
Then I hate drawing until I realize I am doing better, and I love it.
Then I love it until I realize I can do better, and I hate it.
Then I hate it until I realize I am doing better, and I love it.
Then I love it.
Then I hate it.
I love it.
I hate it.

My relationship with art/drawing is honestly all over the place. Up until I hit 19/20 yrs old I was like the poster who just drew because that's just what I did and I loved it.

Then I went to art school and realized the shit show that is the art world. A degree doesnt mean anything. And they're going to tell you you're the best and still give you a degree even if you've made 0 progress because you're paying them to. I dropped out of art school - had an existential crisis and lost my mind and did a ton of drugs.... but now I just teach myself.

I think the difference is that now I force myself to draw things I normally wouldn't choose to. So I can learn how to draw more than just big tiddy bitches. I do studies and other shit I never did but I actually pay attention to what I'm doing and try to learn instead of mindlessly grinding because teacher/book/tutorial told me to. Sometimes I love drawing and sometimes I fucking hate it but god dammit I refuse to give up.

I think the only thing that makes me actually hate drawing is seeing artist's insta accounts that have a ton of followers but aren't even that good. Some of the top followed art accounts only draw women looking pretty and they all have a bad case of sameface. I get it though. It's not much effort and gets you a ton of attention. But I want more than that.

>>3383719
This is so true. A lot of people here approach drawing like getting fit, where you can set up a regimen and diet plan and if you follow it consistently you'll see results consistently. But with art there is no one general path to getting good, especially because getting good means different things to different people.
To me the best way is to try to draw the things you really want to draw to see what you're lacking and then do exercises to strengthen those weaknesses. That keeps it fun and interesting because you know specifically why you're doing a particular exercise or study and how it directly relates to what you want to do instead of feeling like you're doing pointless drills that you don't see how but hope will all add up to you being a great artist. In weight lifting if you try to lift way more than you can you'll hurt yourself but with art you won't. It's fine to attempt things way beyond your level as long as you stay open to hearing why it wasn't quite there.

>>3383406
Yes

>>3383719
>>3383821
The other thing is doing exercises and studies and drawings you enjoy aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes it seems like anons think attempting a personal drawing in the midst of studying will ruin what they learned in the study but it's the best way to test and retain it. You can switch back and forth between exercises and doodles daily, hourly, weekly, it doesn't matter as long as you're keeping yourself interested and drawing. All of the experience is cumulative so no time spent drawing is ever a waste. Some people will say not to do certain things or follow certain teachings but they can't guarantee those things won't help you so you might as well try everything that you think will. People just need to be more carefree with it.
>>3383797
This is a poem. A good one.

>>3383797
I just always love it, fag.

>>3383719
For a lot of us who are very /beg/ and struggle drawing from imagination, doing structured exercises actually makes it more pleasurable. If I just sit down and go "ok time to draw something :)", then nothing comes out, and I'm reminded of how much I suck and it's frustrating. But if I give myself a task like, shade this cube with this light source, or do this exercise out of Robertson, then I at least end up with a picture that looks like SOMETHING, and it makes me think "ok maybe I can draw a little bit". So maybe that's where the fixation on exercises comes from.

>>3383747
you should not post your work here then. people praise /ic/ for not being a hugbox, but drowning yourself in negativity is just as bad. there's no reason to make things needlessly difficult.

>>3383406
I love drawing.
You know what I fuckin hate, though?

Practicing.

I like dim sum yummy yummy

>>3383540
here you go fag

>>3383821
Drawing isn't like getting fit, but a better comparison would be that it is like getting good at a sport. You need to do exercises that insulate a single hability to learn it better, despite the exercise not looking like anything you do in a match. But if you don't play the sport itself, of course your improvement would be at a snail pace.

>>3384060
Yeah that's basically what I said in my second post. People act like they're afraid trying to draw what they want before they're "ready" or whatever will keep them from getting better but in reality it's what they need to do. That and whatever exercises they might be doing, whether they're targeted for a specific problem or just general fundamental things any artist should learn, they shouldn't feel like they can't also do drawings for fun. Learning to draw isn't such a rigid, structured process. Whatever way makes it the easiest to understand and the most engaging is the best way for that individual.

>>3383406
I don't even want to draw but I will because I want to make something or get better at something it's like not wanting to go to work but doing it anyway

>>3383406
Many people hate drawing including myself for the simple fact that once you are competent you can easily visualize what you want to create although you lack the experience to be able to produce it and you also may understand how long it'll actually be until you can create that kind of work. Also for the fact it's very difficult to make a lucrative career out of it.

>>3384327
>People act like they're afraid trying to draw what they want before they're "ready" or whatever will keep them from getting better
I think that what's really happening is that they are afraid of drawing because they are afraid of confronting their real level. When you are doing exercises you tend to think that you are better than you actually are, because you aren't acounting for a thousand problems that present themselves when trying to do a finished piece.
I think that this method of endless exercises is just a form of ego protection.

>>3385453
But why choose such a labor intensive and low marketable skill as drawing or art in general? If you just want to "get good at something" why not carpenter , electrician or programer, something usefull?
Knowing how hard it is trying to improve in art and how little use it has in everyday life, choosing that path without having any real pasion for it sounds retarded to me.

>>3383406
why would i bother drawing if it wasnt fun?
stupid question op.

Yes.

>>3383480
Good post. This is me too, id strongly consider killing myself if i somehow lost the ability to draw. Its the only thing im good at.

>>3383480
I used to draw a lot much like you described but the constant comparing myself to better artists has sucked all the pleasure from it. Now it's stressful, I start drawing and I instantly feel like I have to meet a standard and when I inevitably botch it I feel like crap and I start over, and it gets increasingly more stressful until I quit. This has also made my work much less creative, I'm so focused on getting stuff like face proportions right that I completely forget about putting ideas down. It's really sad that I can't find that childlike enjoyment anymore. It's like I forgot a part of me somewhere along the road.

>>3383465
This
It's sometimes really painful for me to draw and I need to take a moment to reevaluate myself before I can draw again. I know I'm shit at drawing but I know I can get better if I keep doing it.

>>3385681
That sounds like tunnel vision, if you are improving with every drawing then you should feel better. And if you want to improve faster, you just need to work more time.
It's okay to constantly compare your work to better artist and feel like shit, at least for me that feeling is what fills me with drive and pasion to do better. But if it comes to the point where you want to give up everytime you draw, then you clearly aren't acepting your current skill level. Are you specting to get good overnight by being struck by inspiration? Otherwise I don't understand how can you be constantly disapointed at your work as if you didn't know your skill level already.

>>3385471
>I think that this method of endless exercises is just a form of ego protection.
You're probably onto something there. It's pretty safe to draw from a reference since all the answers are there. Once you have to solve problems on your own the lack of understanding and experience is glaringly obvious and I know that can be really hard to face. Unfortunately it has to be confronted in order for improvement to happen though. It's daunting, but I hope if people can think about it more casually it'll take some of that fear off so they can play with it and experiment and grow.

>>3385717
>if you are improving with every drawing
of course I'm not improving with every drawing. My stuff is mostly shit with a decent drawing every now and then

>>3383465
I made that wojak.

>>3383406
I enjoy it, even though I'm learning and it's frustrating as shit.

I have a project I'm working on, and it's one I've been wanting to do since I was a child. It's what motivates me to continue despite the fact that I'm not even a natural.

>>3385471
I meant make a drawing and get better at something drawing related

It is the thing motivating me the most in life. Not sure if that is "fun" but i cant live without the challenge of getting good.

>>3385835
>of course I'm not improving with every drawing
Then your problem isn't comparing yourself to other artists, you problem is that you aren't teaching yourself right.
If you aren't improving with every drawing, then take a step back and try to think were you are fucking up. Deal with your problems instead of blaming your lack of progress on your ambitions.

>My stuff is mostly shit with a decent drawing every now and then
Then your stuff is shit. Unless you can replicate the same results everytime, those "decent" pieces are probably just happy accidents.

>>3385802
I totally agree, protecting your ego is useless anyway, eventually reality shatters those ilusions and that's the main source of all the angst that is so common on /ic/. Being very aware of ones skill level is a must if you want to keep improving.

>>3386088
But then why do you want to be better and improve at something that you don't want to do?
It's like me saying that I want to be a better drummer but having no enjoiment playing the drum. It doesn't make any sense.

>>3383480
I could not agree more.

>>3386180
May I ask you to post your work

>>3383480
>I have a career in art.
Okay.jpg

>most of the people here don't want to be an artist
You could not even begin to define what that means.

>just free porn
If that's all anyone wanted they wouldn't go through the trouble of learning to draw. Porn is already free and plentiful enough.

>blah blah blah
Look, you're not special because you had the privilege to coast on mediocrity your whole life. You faked it for 20 years and made it eventually, good for you. Not everyone has been getting asspats from mommy since they were a child, and you don't have a right to say who is and isn't an artist.

>If you don't enjoy doing it, why do it?
That's an incredibly immature way to think as well. Again, you could do it because you "got gud" before any degree of self awareness set in. Not that you seem to have much now but that's besides the point. The point is why would a person enjoy running medium over surface just starting out when they're not good? The process is frustrating and the product looks like shit, what sort of person with any sense of self reflection would enjoy that? Welcome to a world bigger than what you've experienced, where "want to do" and "have to do" don't always match up.

And why discourage them? You sound exactly like the kind of person who goes on about how /ic/ only cares about porn and anime and doesn't know any art history and only listens to Feng Zhu. And then in the next breath you're saying "if you don't like it, don't do it". Because apparently if someone didn't start as a child they just aren't ever going to make it. I would say get off of /ic/ but you quite obviously belong here, because that's crabbish as all fuck.

A lot of reasons. When I was young my I was blown away by my mom's drawings and I wanted to learn how to do the same. I also always loved finding art of all kinds that I liked and I wanted to make my own. The process is hard but it feels really good to push myself and learn to draw something new or learn to draw something better than before. I just really want to make something and I think that if if I ever gave up on drawing I would always regret it and feel dead inside. It's simply fun though a bit stressful but that is mostly due myself being a little too intense. I don't like the work I am currently able to make, but I know I am able to do much better if I will keep going. I have only recently been able to aim my focus on drawing due to family reasons for the longest time. But now that things are calming down I am picking up my life where it left off. I wish you all good health.

>>3383406
I love drawing. When I finish a drawing and looks ok, it's one of the most fulfilling things. But I have a problem of living in cycles: I spend months doing little but drawing for 6-10 hours and live heathlty then the cycle I slack off drawing and eat unhealthy shit.

>>3383480
I genuinely want to see your work. Please post it.

>>3383406
The process just seems inherently unenjoyable. For me I used to practice hours daily, but now I can only seem to manage maybe 90 minutes-2 hours, every other day. It's far too easy to get burnt out, especially when you still can't draw for shit and can't stop thinking of how much longer before you even approach pro-level. I do still have a desire to get back into a better routine, but it all feels like a chore. There's no fun in it, anything you actually want to draw is out of your reach and if you try, it turns out shit.

>>3386276
Sure, but why tho?
I never said that I was great, I fully admit that I have a long way to go.

>>3386287
>you could do it because you "got gud" before any degree of self awareness set in
>The process is frustrating and the product looks like shit, what sort of person with any sense of self reflection would enjoy that?

Normal people that enjoy the activity for the activity's sake.
While your explanation sounds compelling, I know it isn't really true because I have other hobbies. I am shit with the guitar and I'm pretty bad at the harmonica, but i still enjoy playing them. I never felt this feeling of cripling frustration you guys describe. When I stoped practicing, it was because I got bored of them, not because I was bad, Every day I practiced I improved a little, and that made it interesting and rewarding, even though I was still terrible.

>And why discourage them?
I guess myself and other anons that enjoy drawing have such a hard time wraping our heads around the idea of someone triying to learn drawing while hating it because we know how hard it is to follow the art path, and the only reason why we submit ourselves to all the hardships of that path is due to our love for drawing.
Someone going through that withouth that drive sound nonsensical to me.

Is it that you are enamoured with the idea of being an artist? Is because you think its easy? Is it because you think that it's a reasonable career path? Or is it because you see people like us having fun while drawing and you asume that if only you could get to a certain level you will have as much fun?
It really doesn't make sense to me.

>>3386180
This is such awful advice, I can't even believe it. You do realize skill plateaus exist right? Even the greatest masters experienced hundreds of plateaus. Its existence is so well-documented in any skill-based field, denying it as "you aren't teaching yourself right" is just utterly horrible

And invalidating any good work as "happy accidents" if you don't achieve that exact same quality every single time is atrociously false and maliciously discouraging to any developing artist.

If you see any pros with a long documented history since the time of their beginnings, try to browse their old gallery sometimes

I really hope no one took your post seriously, because this is probably the most malicious, cruel and deceiving case of crab I've seen yet.

>>3386486
>You do realize skill plateaus exist right?
What that anon is describing isn't a plateau, is a constant feeling of frustration and lack of motivation, very common on /ic/

>And invalidating any good work as "happy accidents" if you don't achieve that exact same quality every single time is atrociously false and maliciously discouraging to any developing artist
No, it's reality, your true level is what you can achieve more or less every time, when you have pieces that are far better than the rest and you don't know how you did it, then it was an accident.
And sorry, but if you need to convince yourself that you are better than you really are to feel encouraged, then I don't know what to tell you. But you should be the last person giving advice, because to me that's the really toxic idea.

>I really hope no one took your post seriously, because this is probably the most malicious, cruel and deceiving case of crab I've seen yet.
Just because you think it's sounds mean it doesn't mean that it's a crab comment. Despite what your miopic preconceptions might be, I'm actually trying to help that anon to get out of that mentality that is draining him of his drive to draw, based on what I have learned.
In what way are you helping him? Are you going to tell him that he is great and that he just needs to sit there feeling like shit and eventually the problem will go away because it's just a phase?
Not wanting to draw because there are artists better than you and not improving are problems that need to be resolved if you want to have a healthy learning path, and sometimes that requires taking a blow to your ego.

Also, I'm not forcing that anon to do anything, nor I am atacking him. He can see for himself if something I said hits a cord with him and rings true.

I enjoy drawing about 15 minutes into it, when I start to get a passion for WHAT I am drawing, NOT the process. I don't care about getting gud so much as I just realize skill = more options to make SPECIFIC depictions. This is important since (1) I have eclectic interests--and can't be satisfied mastering any one style, (2) I want to tell stories; which visually require character emoting/acting 'specifically'... So I put up with unpleasant process because I believe "Skills allow you do any style."

Pic is a Funnie meme I drew months ago.

id hate to sound so detached, but fuck yeah i enjoy drawing, what kind of question is that? I make it my purpose to find out what works visually so of course I need to draw.

Oh I guess I should mention it is already my trade though

>>3386513
>No, it's reality, your true level is what you can achieve more or less every time, when you have pieces that are far better than the rest and you don't know how you did it, then it was an accident.
Since when did anyone mention anything about suddenly doing better than usual while at the same time not knowing how you did it? Such accidents are rare and only happens to complete beginners with little to no knowledge who is just winging it.

There's a myriad of elements into what makes a work good and even more variances in every single one of that element. You're just not going to execute all of them well, all the time.

For example, maybe that one time you executed a certain composition motif well, but you "got worst" when you tried out different motifs in your next work as your skill level in that area is not as good

Or maybe you decided to attempt a completely different subject matter that you never tried before and naturally it's worst than your previous works.

Does that mean that the last time you did a piece well isn't because of your skill at all, that it's merely an "accident"?
Does that mean that you got worst because "you aren't teaching yourself right"?

Or does that just mean there's a weak point in that piece you did poorly, just because you don't deal with it enough, so you need to practice more on that specific point? And the last time you did better is because you're skilled enough to deal and execute all the elements required by that piece well?

Artists will always have strong and weak areas that will make them perform better or worst on different pieces

>>3386559
>And sorry, but if you need to convince yourself that you are better than you really are to feel encouraged, then I don't know what to tell you. But you should be the last person giving advice, because to me that's the really toxic idea.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
You're under the illusion that art is a completely smooth and linear progress, with consistent & massive improvements on every stroke you put down and if it's not happening to you, then you're doing it completely wrong.

It's natural to hit dead ends, wiggling around trying to find a way out, hitting ups and downs, and finally hitting a breaking point and launching yourself into massive progress before hitting more dead ends. It's just how progress naturally is, no matter your field. And denying that will cause unnecessary frustration especially to beginner artists.

There's also bad days, where artists are just not performing as well as usual. Or does that not exist, and artists are supposed to be perfectly robotically consistent performers? If not, then they're just not doing it right?

>>3386560
>Just because you think it's sounds mean it doesn't mean that it's a crab comment. Despite what your miopic preconceptions might be, I'm actually trying to help that anon to get out of that mentality that is draining him of his drive to draw, based on what I have learned.
It's a crab comment because it's subtly and underhandedly taking advantage of artists' insecurity.

None of what you said make any sense, or help him with that

A person doing a better piece than usual? Can it be that his skills are finally good enough to execute the elements required in that specific piece? Nope, it's just an accident

A person doing worst than the previous piece and not making linear progress in each step? Can it be that he is trying to figure out and work on his weaker points that is outside of his comfort zone? No, that just means he's not learning right

In what way does that help him get back his drive?

>Are you going to tell him that he is great and that he just needs to sit there feeling like shit and eventually the problem will go away because it's just a phase?
Again, Who said that?

>Not wanting to draw because there are artists better than you and not improving are problems that need to be resolved if you want to have a healthy learning path, and sometimes that requires taking a blow to your ego.
I agree with that, but none of what you said will even remotely will help with it

Enjoy wouldn't be the right word.
It's more like I get a sense of calm and focus that I can't get anywhere else.

Drawing is the only thing I feel in control of when the rest of my world is pretty low. Might be a little exaggerated. But I'm 28 years old, still working in retail, I get commissions here and there and I seem to be getting better, but I've still got a ways to go. I lost my licence then my car and couldn't move to a new place like I wanted to. It was really disapointing, but also made me realize what I need to do. Money's tight. It's just really hard right now. I've got a girlfriend who helps out, but if I didn't draw man I would be so much more stressed. I like to think things will work out, I can't allow myself to think too negatively during these hard times, or things definitely will fall apart. I still make time to draw several hours a day, and on my days off I'm practically chained to the drawing table. I definitely need to focus more on my physical health. At night when I'm laying in bed I like to think about all the things I want to accomplish with drawing. I like to visualize myself becoming better, more disciplined, constantly improving myself. I Can definitely put in a few extra hours per day. I don't like to think of my life being pointless. I can't give up now

>>3387211
I really want to see your work

>>3386475
Not the anon you just replied to.

>I never felt this feeling of cripling frustration you guys describe.
That's fine, everyone's different. Which is exactly why you shouldn't make sweeping generalizations about who can/should become an artist and who can't. Everyone's psychology is different, everyone's on their own path for their own reasons.

>the only reason why we submit ourselves to all the hardships of that path is due to our love for drawing.
You mean your love for the PLEASURE of drawing. Which is just one aspect of drawing. Someone else could be primarily motivated by their love of the results of drawing, or their love of what drawing can do for other people. But you've already admitted that if the pleasure disappeared for you, your love of those things couldn't sustain you and you would quit.

>It really doesn't make sense to me.
People have already listed a bunch of reasons for making art that don't revolve around having fun, are you just intentionally ignoring them?

>>3384059

Not bad, you should try some more dynamic poses and perspective.

>>3385802
>Once you have to solve problems on your own the lack of understanding and experience is glaringly obvious and I know that can be really hard to face.
This is so true it hurts
Im so weak

>>3386287
this. that other anon is pretentious as fuck, what a crab

>>3384059
this isn't as overly terrible as you made it sound

>>3383406
I really enjoy drawing, but I hate the last steps when you gotta polish shit for hours so that it's gonna be more presentable to plebs
Loose sketches are the best

>>3387313

>>3387322
saved, also picrl is thing i saved before

>>3387322
/beg/ here, what is commonly referred as "studies"? as in attempts to do new stuff?

>>3387313
>>3387327

>>3387328
Studies are where you practice specific techniques rather than do 'finished pieces'
The best artists are just amalgamating their studies into 'finished pieces' rather than having some big divide between 'finished' and 'practied'
I.e. a pro's landscape studies will be identical to how they draw landscapes in a finished piece, they won't be washed out or sketchy in comparison, they just won't have other things like buildings or characters in them

>>3387328
Basicly copying with overthinking, i use word copying and dont use word studying because without thought put into copying you would make shit anyway and when i was /beg/ it confuses me alot, i post info about this topic that really helped me.

>>3387332
that doesn't sound too bad, Is it bad to do say a lot of landscapes until I get them right? how much does one do a certain study?

>>3387337
links?

>>3387337
>>3387328

Learning to copy a reference image is probably the most important thing you can learn and it should be something you learn to do if you are interested in dramatically improving.
First let me just say this as concisely as possible. If you cannot copy another image/photo faithfully, what chance do you have of giving your own concepts and ideas any justice. If you cannot copy a face and get the proportions right how will you be able to visualize one in your head and do the same.


Copying is easier then drawing from scratch. You can make observations and comparisons. It's less draining emotionally and physically. Overall its the perfect way of knowing how well you handle your pencil.


I'm not saying here that you must faithfully reproduce and image to be do this well but you must be able to capture the essence of a drawing/photograph with no anxiety or frustration. This will transfer into your art as you gain confidence in your individual strokes as well as gathering innate knowledge on anatomy, facial relationships and various other shapes and concepts.


Here is my suggestion if you want to see some serious improvements in your hand control and line confidence. Every image you save or fave on those social sites you frequent you need to consider those drawings to tackle. Your goal is to absorb something from them, not just save or fave em for later. Save em in a folder or throw them in tabs. Tackle them DAILY. I MEAN THIS. Your job is to clear this queue. Cram your line art on a page in a sketch pad. Just pound through all the parts of drawing you like or focus on things you week with.


Finally, improving at drawing ends up just being a lot of drawing. Sometimes it's good to just POUND through drawings and not worry about thinking. Copying your favorite works as references allows you to experience the process of drawing something over and over and truly get through the motions of what it takes and where to start.

>>3387340
You do studies all the time to complement your projects. Making a piece involving a city scene with characters? You're gonna be doing studies or people and city paraphernalia

>>3387327

while it is true what is says about studies , surely one must realise that different pieces take different amount of time, effort and dedication to cook up. Not everyone wants to rock the painterly style that Mullins and Jaimie are into, some people wanna do overpolished chinese shit like Ruan Jia, and that requires an enormous amount of grind.
In any case my point was exactly that, I like my loose sketches and they look pretty good every now and then, but I also strive towards the ultra-rendered perfection, and that is still kind of a chore.
>>3387322
this pic's area of applicability is pretty narrow since not everyone who doesn't enjoy pushing the final polish doen't like it because he's afraid to reveal his low skill level. Loose sketches present to you a Rorschach blot, something every person can interpret in his own way, and that's the best part about them.

>>3384059
>maldraw

>>3383406
>tfw there's an art gallery just opened near me
>tfw I know someone who's getting their shit shown off there
>tfw he's fucking trash

I think it's one of those "art" galleries though. I called there the other day and there were people outside who said I couldn't go in because the floor was still wet after it had just been painted. I asked them why they didn't just lock the doors or do it at night so it would be open during "operating hours". Then they told me it was "an art installation". A painted fucking floor. Nothing special about it, just a white painted floor.
I went down to check out some real artwork that I could learn from and instead all I found were a bunch of retards, looking through the windows, unironically watching paint dry. I hope the whole building burns down with them in it.

>>3383406
Hey, people with depression can be productive too, you know? Stop being a fucking happyfag telling us we have to enjoy shit do to it.

>>3383480
>stop pretending art doesn't take talent and creativity, passion, motivation, and hard work
have you been sleeping under a rock the past 30 years or do I need to buy you tickets to a modern art exhibition?

>>3386287
>If that's all anyone wanted they wouldn't go through the trouble of learning to draw
That's bullshit yo, there's plenty of porn concepts and scenarios that haven't been illustrated by anyone and as such aren't actually available. Don't underestime the sex drive of shut-ins.

>>3387258
Why

>>3387471
>(((modern art)))
>art

(((Redefining))) words doesn't change reality. Bruce Jenner is still a man for example, no matter how many (((mental gymnastics))) are used or which words are (((redefined))), because reality still exists.
I imagine you're memeing, but people who don't know that might think you're being serious.

>>3387419
>all I found were a bunch of retards, looking through the windows, unironically watching paint dry

That sounds like a pretty good job of the artist, almost making his piece a work of... art

>>3383406
Now that I've stopped comparing myself and critiquing as I draw, it's gotten a lot better.
I used to have a lot of behavior problems in school, and my teacher would give me bonus points after a test for drawing on the paper because it was engaging enough for me to behave.
It became something that I really liked.
You can't really force improvement, only guide people in the right direction, and admittedly thanks to /ic/ I have the resources to do so.
So I'm only concerned with practicing a few pages a day in any particular art book, then doing my own art.
Trying to force it only made me progress slower than I would have just doing what I do now.
Slowly I'm starting to feel like I did drawing as a kid.

>>3387539
I'm kind of in the same situation (approaching 30, drawing every day) and I want to get some commissions going. I wonder what it takes to even get some here and there.

>>3383480
This. I don't take that much pleasure in art. Sure, sometimes I'm really into a painting and will do it for hours in a row, like I did today, but it's not always the case and that's when you consider I only paint for fun. I simply could not learn art as a trade because I hate painting something I don't feel like painting, let alone do it as practice or for someone else.

I have a completely different career and I'm quite happy with it. I'm only painting for fun and never dread having to paint. I need both to be happy and they often overlap though.

In any case, it's fine to not feel like drawing all the time, or struggling to do 8 hours a day of grinding. But some faggots here have decided that because they sometimes do art for fun, they somehow should make a career out of it. But if you hate grinding the fundies and dread every moment of it, almost go into depression because you have to draw 8 hours a day, the fuck do you expect your job to be?

>>3387539
If you draw at work and it looks decent people will come up to you and want normie shit. I have some guys that want to pay me 40 for sketches for tattoo ideas. Then another guy wants me to draw him a portrait of tupac for 60. I get small things like that. Sometimes guys in bands will want me to design logos or album covers. I haven't started any of them though. All I've been doing lately is alot of studying. I'm not that desperate for 40 bucks so I put it off all the time.

>>3387857
Oops, I meant to reply to you, accidently responded to my post

>>3387857
Here's a study sketch. I'm not good dude.

>>3383480
>Stephen King doesn't write about forcing himself to write
Except he does in his book, "On Writing". Dumb fuck, anybody getting the wind taken out of their sails by this retard is NGMI

hell no
art is suffering

>>3387990
Looks nice dude.

>>3387990
Did you draw the rabbit too? I like your stuff.

>>3383572
>>3383592

I love you anon.

>>3390076
Nah, the thing I posted in this thread is the only thing of mine I've posted recently. I posted a Viking drawing like 7 years ago and got roasted hardcore

The sooner you accept that life is more about living and that happiness is a result, not a state of being, the sooner you will find peace with whatever you choose to do. Some see suffering as an indication that they are doing something wrong, but suffering is most often life itself. "Do what makes you happy" is a bad plan because happiness is the result of doing something, not the emotion you feel before or while you do it. Runner's high doesn't occur until you've run a long long way, and your body has suffered to a point where it peaks.

Realizing this helped me draw way more, because I realized I didn't have to be in the zone, I didn't have to be happy, I didn't need to feel like drawing, I just had to do it. Same with homework, taxes and the dishes. Life is full of things that just happen, life is full of the boredom of the everyday. Few things you do will ever illicit happiness, and striving to enjoy what you do is futile because in the end, there will be times you don't, regardless of what it is, and if you are doing it to enjoy it then you'll just think "why am I not enjoying this?" instead of thinking about what you are doing.

It's a bad way to live, only for the positives in life. Life is more about the things you do everyday, like brushing your teeth or taking out the trash, than it is about the romantic or exceptional experiences. I didn't do anything to make drawing like this for me, mostly, I just stopped trying to be good because it's the same thing as trying to be happy. It's a result. It made me focus on being good more than it made me focus on drawing. Many times I enjoy it a lot but when I don't, I don't stop doing it, because I'm not doing it to enjoy it and if it's bad I don't stop either, because I'm not doing it to be good. I'm doing it because it's what I do.

>>3383592
>Consider what would happen tomorrow if everyone in the world stopped doing things that they didn't want to do

We would have a labor market favoring supply, necessitating that employers make more compromises when negotiating workers’ benefits and wages.

Everything in life has ups and downs. Only idiots waste their life on things that are a net down.

I partially draw because I actually enjoy it, and partially because I was one of those people that was praised endlessly in my younger years for """talent""" and I feel like it would be a huge fucking waste if I just stop drawing and lose it, even though I'm constantly tempted to pursue new hobbies (that I know I'm shit at).

everyday I draw to get better for myself
also its something to do and nothing is more excitng and makes me prouder than understanding concepts and being able to reproduce them and make it look good

>>3383406
When I first started I thought 'well this isn't pleasant, but once I get gud it'll be more enjoyable'. And I was right, the fun in drawing corresponds to my skill level, it becomes even more fun as I get better

>>3387322
I'm not sure if I fully understand.. is he saying it's good to do studies or not?

>>3383406
Opted out of an art career after taking several arts classes that lead me nowhere asides from good critiques and life lessons from a teacher who also works in the industry. While I'm currently working through an Engineering program to hopefully enjoy a future with money in the bank, drawing and designing is still my sweetheart. I still try to keep up with art since its been a lifelong passion, but working in the industry would kill the remaining enjoyment i get out of creating art, while at the same time designing in CAD itches a creative drive I never knew I would feel -and being interested in art certainly helped me with the program. Drawing will hopefully stay alongside me throughout this journey of life, and I hope it does for you anons as well regardless or not you make it into the industry. Cheers fags.

pic unrelated, not my work

>>3383821
A lot of it is that we're constantly warned about how drawing the "wrong" way will teach you bad habits and torpedo your skills, and that there are a lot of horror stories about people who "just try" and never advance because they didn't know what they had to practice or how.
I think what a lot of people want is a place to start, to learn the fundamentals and thus be at least relatively competent in the pure basics before tackling something we're only just getting used to thinking of as a skill that we can learn and not inborn magic.

It's unexplored territory, there's conflicting advice everywhere and few people want to intentionally pay money and use time to fail their self-esteem into shreds. In my case, specifically, it's mainly the fear that even if you get better, you slack for one day and bam, three years of practice gone.
It's irrational, I know. But the only thing that can fix irrationality is rationality, and that's what a lot of people who "bitch" are coming here to hear.

Most people would probably be satisfied with "cram Drawing on the Left Side of the Brain and Vilppu for now". It's just that people with low self-esteem and a tendency towards getting caught up in their own delusions really, really need to be told things clearly and with advice sometimes, and /ic/ really tends to fall into "crab bucket" rather than "no-nonsense advice".

>>3383480
inbetween all the stupidity and courier's replies you find on this board, there appears a rare, gold plated shitpost by a retard of absolutely epic proportions, congratulations

>>3390880
Thank you for this post. I had kinda the same mindset, but somewhere along the way I have lost it. I haven't done anything for last 2 months, I kinda got tired or angry, I dunno man. I'm back on my old mindset where just getting to do something is so hard. Fuck that. Drawing should be shit I do, regardless of how I feel. Praises will not fill one's life, meaningful work will.

>>3387211
I wish you well, anon
I hope thing eventually get better for you

>>3383406
Fuck.no
I literally never understood how anyone could enjoy something when they know they are fucking shit at it

>>3391719
you're weird. were your parents hard on you or something?

>>3391746
Not that anon but how is it weird, it's perfectly logical to be frustrated when you're not familiar with the process and things don't go the way you want

>>3391797
ah yes the logic of "i have never practiced this craft so why cant I do it like the professionals"

>>3391798
It's more like the feeling of, say.
You're called up to the blackboard suddenly, and there's nothing written. The teacher tells you "make the problem".
There's nothing in the schoolbooks. There's nothing on the blackboard. But as soon as you hesitate just a moment, a shocked gasp rises from the classroom and the girls begin tittering. You try everything you can, math, English, algebra, grammar, whatever. Nothing is correct. When you turn to the teacher, he just says with an exasperated expression, "but I told you to make it".

For a lot of newbies, it feels like there's no support but "fuck you". Especially with drawing, where you teach yourself one wrong "trick" and it takes you years to fix it (not that you'll ever recover your original skill), people don't want to fail.
And, you know, people like us do want to succeed too. I just don't see the link between "fail" and "keep trying".

What we want is a link between failing and getting better.
Because when I fail, I just don't get that feeling of "well, maybe that bit is good" or "if I do like this I can fix this error".
I feel I failed. That's that. No feeling of promise, no feeling of improvement, only self-hate.
And for me, the reason is clear.
I tried, and I failed.
If anyone can tip me off on how to not feel like you're trash and becoming worse every moment you spend on doing something you're not made for and someone else could do in your place, please do.

>>3391842
>where you teach yourself one wrong "trick" and it takes you years to fix it
like what?

>>3391906
For example if you "just draw" and you teach yourself a wrong trick to draw anatomy, or just end up incorporating wrong beliefs/symbol thinking into it.
Then, once you discover that other people are shitting on your art for characters having too many abs, weird hips or bloated armpit areas, you have to reconstruct your entire established routine and re-check everything from the bottom, fixing preconceived notions as you go along (which is a lot harder than just learning them from the bottom).
You might be able to understand why some people might just want to get a list of generally approved exercises, with pros and cons included if that's what you want, some tips on work ethic/routine/mindset and generally just a way to get the fundamentals practiced without having to deal with brown-nosing and drama (outside of /ic/) or doomsaying crab-bucket interference noise (this board at its worst).

It's not a matter of spoonfeeding. It's just a matter of getting over the risk of messing up in the very basics - work ethic and routine are really hard to change, and you'd want to get a good start especially if you're starting late.

>>3391842
You seen to take failure in drawing in the wrong way, only focusing in the negative feelings that it produces. Failure is essential in the process of learning

>>3391921
yeah makes sense

>>3391926
And the idea that turning failure into success is possible on any consistent basis without just starting to fail harder and harder doesn't come easy to some people.
Research, planning and safe progress is a valid avenue of approach in a lot of real-life problems to the point where it's expected in society. You just don't hit roadblocks because you know enough to look before you leap, and society is built around the assumption that attention, preparation and success on the very first try is the ideal solution to any problem.
Can't really blame people for going along with that. Also, the idea that "failure" doesn't mean "failure" can sound nonsensical to a lot of people.

>>3391842
1. Read the Enchiridion and Meditations
2. Get out of your own way, realize that failure is the best way to improve
3. Read The Art Spirit
4. Stop being retarded

>>3391746
>were your parents hard on you?
No
I just hate the idea of wasting my time on something I might never be good at
Or doing 2x the work just to be 1/2 as good as someone else

>>3391949
what about those books? If I have to throw time I could use to study in reading then I would like to know what I might get from them

>>3391949
I wrote a long, angry reply, then realized that what I had to say could be summed up like this.
I'd be a lot more receptive to what you were saying if you a) gave any details instead of saying "fix this problem", and b) didn't try to push some tinfoil-hatted lunatic or touchy-feely hippy's society-rotting rhetoric on me.
People needing to resort to meaningless feel-good spiritual supermarket circlejerking is a good sign there's something off with them in the first place.
And especially people who feel there's a need to try to get someone to rewrite their personality around a work originally made to get people into a cult simply to be taught some basic tips from someone with experience are usually compensating for something lacking, perhaps the skill.

>>3391982
Both of them are ancient text from the Stoics about how to deal with lifes bullshit and how to change your mindset to cut out misery. You asked for a method on how to get over feeling like trash so either read it or dont.
http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/antoninus-the-meditations-of-the-emperor-marcus-aurelius-antoninus-2008

>>3391984
>I'd be a lot more receptive to what you were saying if you a) gave any details instead of saying "fix this problem",
The post asked for solutions, not details. Take it or leave it
>and b) didn't try to push some tinfoil-hatted lunatic or touchy-feely hippy's society-rotting rhetoric on me.
>Stoicism
>Society rotting.
Not going to bother responding to the rest. Youre either baiting or just ignorant. Probably both. 2/10, got me to respond either way.

>>3392008
Have you perhaps thought that anything that justifies failure in any form is inherently bad for society?
A failure can benefit a single human being, but it hurts a thousand more and it isn't very well something you can pay back. Especially, more than ever, in our over-stimulated, over-obliged, over-competitive society even the smallest little thing can and will cause stress, delays and lack of surplus that carries down the line. If you taking five seconds too long to make the coffee at your workplace causes your workmate's daughter to get beat up tonight - a butterfly effect thing you have no hope of predicting - you have an obligation to be aware that any failure, no matter how unimportant you think it is, impacts other people and it impacts other people in turn. You feel good because of a cheap logical trick absolving you of guilt for slacking and fucking up, and thirty other people have a shitty day because society as it is today is simply stuffed to the brim by that very stress-inducing obligation to be your completely own person, never follow anyone else, never help people without spinning gold on it yourself and for God's sakes constantly pretending to love anyone else when the only thing that finding happiness in anything else than society's happiness is inherently going to end in self-perpetuating, selfish misery that fulfills none of the emotional urges but all of the short-term ones of the human race.
Hell, even the idea that you might commit a failure makes you a gamble, and anyone entrusting a known fuck-up with a responsibility is either incompetent or uncaring towards how other people will suffer when the fuck-up inevitably does the only thing he's good at.

[spoiler] It obviously made you mad, so I made this one into a piece of art. Use it as copypasta if you see fit.

>>3392026
You got any thing worth saying hombre, or is incoherent rambling all i can expect from you today?

>>3383465
>>3383524
Smoke more

>>3392036
I dont smoke

>>3392036
fuck off degenerate

>>3392048
start.
>>3392068
you'll never achieve anything in life with that closed minded attitude anon

>>3391842
>Because when I fail, I just don't get that feeling of "well, maybe that bit is good" or "if I do like this I can fix this error"

It isn’t a feeling. It’s a fact. Stop being an emotional crybaby and start using the reason the fucking pneuma gave you.

I love drawing. The problem is that doing what I love produces garbage quality art.

What I hate is the incredibly difficult process of actively and consciously working towards improvement.

>>3383406
I absolutely love it. In elementary school as a child I drew a self portrait for some art thing. It came out decent for a kid my age. Seeing how excited my family, specifically my mother was for me/the drawing made me feel compelled to keep doing it and improve.

And 14 years later i'm an employed illustrator. Sometimes the work aspects of it aren't fun, but even if this weren't my job I'd still be doing it. It makes me feel complete, like it's something I was meant to do.

>>3392113
crab as fuck

>>3391949
fuck yeah stoicism

>>3392178
Join /las/ anon

Do you guys agree?

>>3383406
i enjoy it. the feeling that i don't know as much about le fundies as i thought i did is a very frustrating one though.

>>3383406
if I could be doing literally anything other than painting I would be.

For the love of fucking god please kill me.

I personally used to want to learn to draw for all the wrong reasons (primarily for e-fame)

but then I actually warmed up to it and legitimately love art now