/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3365053
this all i could find just now. I belive the original may be from 2005 or 4-ish?

>>3365057
shit, i didn't even answer the main question. I don't know how he got good- but I distinctly remember some art veterans complimenting his work ethic. so idk, just sounds like a huge amount of output and study- as well as time.

>>3365053
Dave was probably THE most transparent artist ever when it comes to his art journey. He documented basically every step of the way in his sketchbook and daily livestreams. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there is no specific, special exercise he did that made him get good. He did some still life studies, lots of photo studies, copied some anatomy stuff from Loomis, Bridgman etc, the usual. Then he applied those studies to personal work which he put a lot of effort into.

Pic related is his supposed schedule from a few years ago, although we can only speculate how rigorous he was in adhering to it. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, as they say.

>>3365087
Where can I find his sketchbook and old streams?

>>3365087
No one was asking for a special exercise you condescending prick.

>>3365111
OP was asking for "specifics", there are no specifics. What Dave did is literally what everyone on /ic/ would tell you to do. Study and apply those studies.

>>3365120
what studies exactly?

>>3365131
Jfc read the parent comment. Still life studies, photo studies, anatomy studies. What studies you do should reflect what art you're trying to make.

>>3365164
>What studies you do should reflect what art you're trying to make.
Fucking this. I've wasted months studying things I don't care about instead of focusing on what's important

>>3365169
Draw a lotta dicks n big titties. Incorporate those into a tittyfuck. Draw the jizz. Fuck em. get hard or die tryin.

>>3365053
He streams on twitch once a week usually, when he's just drawing he will take any questions you ask. I ask him like 4 questions every time he streams.

>>3365109
Some important ones are on the crimson daggers youtube or website whatever. Most of the streams are gone though.

How long did it take Dave to git gud? Like how many years of deliberate practice did he do?

>>3365297
What time and day does he usually stream?

>>3365098
Holy shit, that's pretty fucking crazy if true.
I couldn't for the life of me stick to a schedule like this, let alone to this scale without being succumb to insanity, I mean, is this even physically possible?

You fucking weirdos think there's some special formula for getting good.

All Dave did was dedicate himself, work hard and made it his life. Most people can't do that. Most of YOU can't and WON'T do that. 99% of you don't have the dedication and drive to do what Dave did.

Fucking literal autists. All of you.
"HOW HE DO DAT!??!?!"
fucking retard.

>>3365098
how does one 'study color', exactly? is that like light studies and color checking realism, or what?

>>3365436

but working well and hard IS the special formula

>>3365436

I don't understand why you angry retards seem to think that working hard and having a system can't be compatible.

People who get shit done often do have a formula of some sort. They have a fucking method, because intelligent, effective people don't just brainlessly and aimlessly brute force problems. There are a lot of stupid fucking people who work very hard and get very little done because they think hard alone work is the entire solution - it's not. In virtually every industry people are willing to draw lessons from the routines of successful people but for some reason /ic/ is full of you fucking mongs who have become utterly obsessed with the idea that any striving for efficiency is 'cheating' or 'looking for shortcuts' and that if you're not making it pointlessly hard for yourself you're lazy.

I swear to fucking god if someone asked "How did Rapoza get to work every day?" you asshats would say he walked 8 hours uphill both ways and if you don't you're NGMI.

>>3365735
you sound like one of those butthurt kids who got told tracing was against your best interest in the long run.

>>3365053
I'll tell you this.
He never spent 3+ hours a day on 4chan.

>>3365891

nice projection

>>3365897
He spent it on CA and Crimson Daggers which are both essentially dead now. Where the fug do I go lad? /ic/ is a shithole but it's all I know.

>>3365900
Steal as many artbooks and resources as you can from this place and then go to Artstation

>>3365902
Does artstation actually have a forum/sketchbook equivalent? It just seems like a place for pros or semi-pros to dump their art. Not a place for lower level artists to improve.

>>3365907
oh i assumed you werent /beg/
yeah sorry man there really arent a lot of quality art forums around right now i was talking about this with a guy who works for DC

>>3365735
But there is no special system there in this case. As said before, Dave was one of the most transparent artists ever when he posted on conceptart and did his daily livestreams. The people who were there at the time know exactly what he did for 8+ hours a day and none of it was anything special. In fact, he did tons of photo studies of random shit that he would later say were kind of a waste of time.

Everything Dave did is common sense advice you hear repeated over and over on /ic/, stuff you would always brush off because it's something you've heard a million times already and you aren't happy with it. You want some new and exciting system, but there is none. Study what you need to study for the work you want to do and apply it to your personal work. That's it. How fast and how much you improve depends entirely on your effort and your intelligence.

>>3365053

>specifics

You want hard truth? The lying bastard hidden that he actually went to prison and when he got out, he couldn't land any job in his small city. The only option was drawing.

This is the hidden technique. Being poor as fuck and having no option but making cash in whatever way possible.

>>3366047
Dave succeeded despite his situation, not because of it. The vast majority of professional artists who are equally or higher skilled than Dave don't have criminal records and usually come from upper middle class or even rich families who supported them all the way.

The point is that you people keep always talking about the same general stuff, never mentioning the specifics. Of course he did color studies or anatomy studies or whatever but that's what everyone has to do. What did he do EXACTLY? By exactly I mean studying specific stuff in a specifc manner so it's not worthless. Even he admitted that doing photo studies was a waste of time yet there was no real follow-up to that. Okay, photo studies are worthless... and that's it. It ends on that. I realized that a year ago and I still can't tell what am I supposed to aside from purely technical stuff like anatomy, since it's fairly easy to tell how you should learn it.

>>3366043

I'm not suggesting he knew a magic trick, but I am saying that /ic/'s kneejerk "don't even ask you lazy fuck how DARE you presume that it's anything except for a brainless grind!" is silly. Shit like this >>3365098 is generally a sufficient answer. You can say "He worked hard" and HOW he worked hard instead of just ratcheting up the hostility and going "It's only hard work you fucking moron that's all there is to it don't even ask what he worked hard on".

>>3365053
dave had direct input from all the giants today jones wess ,mullins koro and the massive black guys gave crits all the time because they all grew on the same old concept art forums. sure he worked hard hell he even had all of his streams recorded from when he was terrible to god mode to prove it but thats in my opinion his magic key. strong input.

>>3365399
A 7 hour work day, literally impossible. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>3366507
what do you mean impossible? ateliers literally do it daily. hell watts does 10 hours.

>>3366129
How many hours have you drawn this week? I can understand wanting a sense of direction its just that comes after you've actually started moving somewhere. Learning to draw has a lot of epiphany moments where you will understand the implications of something studied 2 weeks ago, these will also be different for each person.
>>3366517
It was sarcasm you cunt. Read the previous post.

>>3365098
>>3365169
I believe he's since called this bullshit. He obviously can focus and put in a long days work but even just recently Dan and Dave on a live stream called BS on the non-stop work schedule with no life or time off and doing tons of unnecessary studies that don't relate to personal work.

>>3366129
Just make paintings, shitloads of them, don't worry about doing the "right" stuff. Figuring that out will come in time after you do a bunch of shit the wrong way, no one can tell you exactly what to do. If you need someone to hold your and the whole way and tell you exactly what to do or else you won't do anything than just quit now. Most of learning art is self teaching and doing a bunch of wrong shit so you yourself can learn the intricacies of making art which then lets you understand what you don't like, and what doesn't work. To much focus on "the right kind of studies" or painting the perfect figure/still lives is totally pointless in terms of making imaginative art thats marketable. Do your studies from life but don't let them get in the way of doing your imaginative work, thats the whole point of doing studies to begin with.

Make personal paintings you enjoy and do studies to inform skill deficits you have while making them. I.E. Bad anatomy, or terrible costumes, lighting, edge work, shape language, character design, form, etc. Understand that "studies" are not the be all end all and even though you can do studies to improve you have to keep making personal work that will look like shit alongside them. It'll take years of producing work and doing studies to reach a level of "top" artists everyone on here drools over.

>>3366507
>>3366517

Studying the same art principal 3 hours a day, 7 days a week over and over again is really taxing, you fucking fanatic.
30 minute lunch time too, impossible to eat anything without gulping it down, he can't even enjoy his lunch time. Most place in my country give you at least 1 hour for lunch for a reason.
And he only work 3-4 hours a day which is impossible for me to finished anything of quality, I'd have to rushed every living fiber out of my body to be able to finished anything in that time span. And on top of that when he he's done all he does is more studies. And no weekend break or anything what so ever.

This is not living for me dude, If I'm on his schedule I'd be dead before 40, hell maybe even 30 at this rate.

>>3366129
As an example I don't believe he meant all photo studies are shit, what shit is randomly painting photos of subject matter irrelevant to issues in his personal paintings. Doing a few days of tree studies when he's working on sci-fi space paintings instead of studying hard surfaces, or space is dumb. In a few weeks he'll forget all he learned about trees because he's not really applying that information in his work to help reinforce it.

Study culture/disease is the problem, doing busy work for the sake of feeling productive, while failing to really improve your skills long term, then burning out from simply painting studies all the time. Another important thing I heard him say recently is he wished he drew more in the beginning, in general and in a sketchbook. His draftsmanship and ability to draw more interesting subject matter has improved his work, he thinks. He said looking back lack of drawing ability lead to boring images that were highly rendered to compensate, i.e. turd polishing.

So if your doing a personal painting that involves high fantasy subject matter, say a character with armor set in the woods, do studies of metal surfaces, landscapes with similar lighting or subject matter. Draw studies of costume/armor from life to help better inform the characters clothing, or anatomy for specific parts of the figure your having problems with in the image. In the past few years I've heard Dave praise more focused studies, like the did with the blood sport challenges, as a way to learn and grow rather than just randomly painting/drawing.

This whole study culture bullshit of grind studies 8 hours a day to "make it in 2 years" is a CA and Crimson daggers creation. I hear plenty of artists give chats where no one ever talks about how they "got gud". They just made art and studied from life, it's not a big part of their journey that they worry about. Rinse Repeat for a decade and they're a working pro.

>>3365921
guy from DC here, yeah I remember our talk

>>3366577
I agree with your post, I just don't know how to limit my scope. I know for certain that I really like portraits and whole characters in general but I don't want to draw just that. I want to be able to do... everything basically. I feel overwhelmed that there's so much to learn and I can't really focus on one thing at a time.

>>3366858
Doesn't really work.

>>3367119
i mean...
post art

>>3366858
Okay

>>3367125
that's not fair he's obviously literally autistic

>>3367125
>I didn't draw much this year so not much is different from last year.
You're not exactly wrong, action without thought is empty. The issue with this kind of example is that its highly unlikely they put much time in at all. Since starting drawing I've had one massive blank, producing nothing for ~5months and even so I ended up with about 30 images.
I think you've got to be quite exceptional to put a few thousand hours into something and not improve at all. Then again I've seen exactly that in games so I guess i'm just fucking wrong.

>>3365098
what did he do for money back then?
I wish I had that time to do art

>>3367125
Just going to say this now. No I'm not good at pixel art, I edited Pokémon sprites.

>>3367139
This is the thing about that image that makes me feel uncomfortable. Not the fact it's posted on 4chan as a joke but that as it goes on I keep admitting to not having motivation to draw as much as I'd like.

>>3367190
This, live in a place where only work available to me is 3 hours commuting away and its a fucking factory where you stand next to a line making monitors for tv's that cost more than your monthly pay for 8-12 but most often 10 hours.

Then you go back home and wish you could kill yourself but you cant because reasons.

>>3365053
He needs some Loomis
That's not what skulls look like

>>3369279
>Then you go back home and wish you could kill yourself but you cant because reasons.
What reasons?

>>3369281
You need more brain cells. It's a stylized, intentionally silly looking character of his.

>>3369319
Sick mom, I think she could live with sis but still, with her kind of disease me killing myself would be too fucking much and could kill her as well and if not, financially that would still be a hit.

>>3369354
Ok, google just freaked me out.

So, here is the thing, there was a second part to this post but I thought it was unimportant so I CTRL+C it, accidentally trying to paste an url in google, I pasted this cut out part of the post and despite me not using word "suicide" once in it, google actually gave me suicide related topics.

I guessed they switched to some algorithm that search not so much for word or perfect copy of a picture as it is search for context, but the fact it understood my context so well really amazes me.

Google is just amazing in a fucking spooky way.

>>3369347
April's fool!
You totally fell for it, tipycal peep

>>3367139
I've noticed this in many games as well.

99% of the time these people are playing for fun, don't care about improvement at all, if they do care about improvement they're not invested enough or don't seek out ways to improve.

there's definitely some overlap between those different elements of course. there's people who fall into one or all of those categories and still improve despite the circumstances, but I think you won't find anyone who actually applies themselves to stay a scrub.

>>3366047
>tfw motivated into developing my talents into something marketable due to physical disability keeping me from most low-skill labor but still lazy as fuck in the face of impending financial doom

>>3369500
literally me

Dan and Dave recommend no-fap all the time. Probably due to their upbringing based on good ole American traditional Christian family values. This is the secret to their success. Let me guess, everyone in here has masturbated today, yes? Now it will be at least 5 days before you can get into the flow state again. Bust a nut, enter the rut.

>>3367139
>>3367125

I like this kind of philosophical stuff.

Keeping up the habit and drawing for fun is one thing, but their usually comes a time when you have to make a conscious decision to challenge yourself to do something you've never done before. The process is usually not that "fun" because you have to think hard and learn something new, but its worth it in the end because you will have "level up'd" your skill set.

>>3371922
I mean, it depends with what you mean by "learn something new". Dave for example has always drawn portraits and figures. So even when he tried something new, like comics, or adapting a completely different style, he was still drawing mostly portraits and characters. Part of the reason why Dave is so good I think is because he realized very early on what he actually wanted to do with his art and then tried to master it. He never seriously attempted to get good at say sci fi spaceship designs or did countless of pages of mecha silhouettes or landscapes and environments etc. I don't think I have ever even seen a full scene with more than 2 characters from him, unless it's in the form of a movie poster, because that's not what he wants to do.