/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3321350
Kinda, but at least it's hella fun. Plus we don't have it as bad as writers.

>>3321350
worst for what purpose? if you want money you don't need skills. just learn to suck dick.

>>3321362
Worst because you have to work harder than anyone else and get almost nothing in return. I guess living off from a minimal wage while wasting 5 years for drawing is cool, because it's fun lol!

>>3321350
Yup, now off yourself.

Yes. Now get back to grinding.

>>3321370
Joke's on you. I am not a fucking cuck to work my whole life for pennies, I just keep coming here to laugh at you people, who struggle just to find out that you'll get the same shit as a McDonalds employee. But it's not all that bad, from what I can see this board is getting less active, meaning more people are awake to this bullshit. Have fun all those who are so retarded to pursue such shitty careers.

>>3321375
not a single other person in this entire world cares even in the slightest

>>3321365
it's not for you then. good artists struggle doing anything other than art. if you're comparing it to other hobbies, careers, or interests you really haven't 'got it'.

>>3321377
So you admit that artists are essentially losers? I agree.

>>3321384
can you explain what 'loser' means to you in this context before you tell us you agree with yourself.

>>3321350
How dare these people put their content that they put time in behind a paywall. I deserve what you made for free. At the same time you're required to give me your exact secrets on how you got to where you are so that I can sit on /ic/ and not take action anyway. What's that? You said you've been drawing for 10 years and that's how you got to where you're at?

Fuck I just left high school 2 years ago and dropped out of college. Shouldn't I be professional in a year? I mean fundamentals don't take that long to learn--it's basic shit. What do you mean drawing "seriously" for 10 years what the fuck does that mean? You've been drawing all your life? Wait so does that mean It's too late for me?

Are you saying I can start at any age? But you've been drawing since you were in diapers how will I ever catch up to you? Anyways I don't want to draw I mean just look at the pay people are getting on deviantart. $10 per drawing? You can make more at mc donalds! Terrible pay to skill ratio right there.

Have fun pursuing a bullshit career with no end in sight. I'm going to go back to my REAL job at Win Dixxie as a manager making $15/hr. In 20 years I might just move up to corporate. - you

>>3321390
nicely done, anon

>>3321390
Entitlement and practical concerns for sharing 'how to art' is hardly the bottleneck. Most artists don't know how to explain what they do. And many more don't *want* to explain it.

>>3321375
That is insanely pathetic.

>>3321392
There is already more information about "how to art" readily available and at your disposal than ever before in human history. It doesn't matter that not every single artist feels like sharing an in-depth breakdown of their technique and overall approach to art.

>>3321413
there's also more disinformation than ever before. at unprecedented epidemic levels. people are getting stupid as fuck despite easy access to information. what gives?

>>3321350
If you get into art for the "demand" you've already failed

>drawing
>everything is hidden behind a paywall
no, that applies to society as a whole
>professional artists will never tell how they were learning
why should they
>takes years before you can even start at all
I don't know what lofty career you're pursuing if you haven't spent years in higher education to get a degree
Or do you think that simply earning above minimum wage is something worth bragging about
>terribly bad pay to skill ratio
if pay is the only thing you take from your job, you have a shit job
>I am not a fucking cuck to work my whole life for pennies
yes, you're a "fucking cuck" to work your whole life for someone else's company, building someone else's fortune, to amount a meagre fortune of your own
>Have fun all those who are so retarded to pursue such shitty careers.
Thanks, I sure will

>>3321413
>already information on how to art
>furry and tumblr shit remain consistant
>good quality tutorials are restricted to cgpeers so that only good artists get the best while shit artists become jewed to paying
wew

>>3321509
There's more info in the book thread alone than you'll ever bother to read in your whole life, and you can torrent the rest

>>3321489
yep, now go get some soulless business degree or something

>>3321509
just pathetic my dude. take a lap

>paywall
CGpeers

>>3321350
>drawing
>just draw
>theyre right
>just draw
>just draw
>just draw

Are crabs some of the worst people you can interact with these days?

>>3321350
idk seems like someone who is too lazy to start drawing and is shit at it now and its honestly not that expensive if you just want to draw with a pen on some printing paper, thats enough for starters to get good at drawing

>>3321350
>artists wont tell you their secret
Their secret is fucking pracicing lmfao

>>3321547
this soo much

Practice you fucking retard. Actively practice, don't just fiddle about like an idiot. Think about what you're doing. The more thinking you do, the more possible connections you will make.

>>3321350

Are you the same person who wrote all these threads about how gumroad tutorials and art teachers don't gibs you the REAL secrets and also wrote some autistic shit in the comment section on Muddy Colors?

>>3321537
how do I get in?

If you're looking for an universal formula that will transform you into Da Vinci overnight, you're in for a disappointment... Look up the greatest artists, do some research on their inspiration & how they worked, and USE YOUR DRAWING HAND. No shortcuts, sadly...

It's just like the fitness industry.
Everyone at the top is a hack fraud trying to sell you online courses, it won't get you chicks or money, you should only do it for yourself.

op is a little bitch

>>3321546
>>3321547
>>3321551
You are so trained in this stupid fucking mindset, where skills are learnt just by "doing it". It's the most stupid, basic shit. At a higher level you NEED something more than "just drawing", you need techniques, tutorials, very specific info. Just drawing was never effective and only people who are shit at it keep talking this garbage.

>>3321837

Is "how to draw" and "how to render" by Scott Robertson too simple for you? What about "Alla Prima" by Schmid?

>>3321837
That's what the sticky, book thread, /beg/, and the draw thread are for you brainlet

>>3321837
Not really, if you weren't retarded, all you'd need to do is to look at paintings and infer the techniques. Perfecting them is another matter entirely.
The highest form would be to invent new techniques, which no tutorial will help you with since they don't exist.

You're thinking like a bottom feeder, who needs superiors to tell him how to do things because he's too damn retarded to figure it out on his own. Tutorial worship is the most basic bitch deviant art tier cuckoldry an artist could subject himself to.

Juts practice XD

>>3321350
Wait, what? Who the fuck chooses drawing as a career? I thought it's just treated as a hobby here.

>>3321837
i am a renaissance man and you are full of shit, output is infinitely a better teacher than input in 99% of skills, the 1% being language learning
accomplished artists tell you to 'just draw' because.......that is exactly how they got to where they are, you dumb cunts have to overthink everything which at this point im sure is just a really advanced form of procrastination

>>3322173
>accomplished artists tell you to 'just draw' because.......that is exactly how they got to where they are

This is not true just based on my person alone. I had moments where I spent many hours and I still got very little in return. It's either you know what to do or you will never improve like you should. You never tell programmers to "just code", it's always more than that, also they get paid a lot better aswell. Just admit that this shitty career is for autistic fucks who can't do anything else.

Agreed, but I need it for porn.

>chink parents say that chink artists won't teach anything useful in online streams
>go onto baidu
>ruan jia and HGJ and other fags share entire stream of them creating art for free and free step by step by steps
>go onto pixiv
>nip artists streaming their entire art creation process for free as well as free step by steps
>professional mangakas even stream their inking
>go onto deviantart/tumblr
>patreon/patreon/patreon/patreon/gumroad
holy absolute cancerous fuck

At least good art is palpably detectable to everyone as good art. I'm good at writing, and it's a skill that's invisible to everyone else who isn't just as good at writing as I am.

>>3322177
yeah, programming is the fastest way to become better at programming, that is literally how it works, you spend 10% of your time looking at better programmer's code and 90% of your time programming, notice how there is exactly 0% dedicated to posting on 4chan about the correct way to learn programming

>Just admit that this shitty career is for autistic fucks who can't do anything else.
enjoy never being good at anything because you think people doing something repeatedly until they are good at it makes them autistic, jesus fucking christ this modern mindset is retarded

And I forgot
>go onto artstation
>gumroad/patreon
>the content from cgpeers is literally them pasting photos onto a canvas for 2 hours and scribbling over them for two minutes

>>3322182
You mouthbreathing retard goddamn your kind makes me fucking mad. The same argument over and over and you never fucking learn. Of course you have to do a fucking thing to learn it but it's never JUST the basic shit like you keep talking about again and again. What do you think art schools have been doing for so many years now? You are taught by a very strict program that aims at improvement, you never draw just to fucking draw, you draw with a very precise purpose that is never revealed outside of those groups of professional artists and art schools. I never, ever seen in my life a truly self taught person who was remotely good at drawing. It was always about courses and schools.

I won't even ask for your work because it's certainly some amateur shit like everyone's who keeps spewing useless shit out of their disgusting mouths. Enjoy being worthless bottom tier trash that will never accomplish anything. Don't kill yourself, keep sustaining me with your pathetic existence.

>>3322187
want to know how i know you have never achieved proficiency at anything

>>3322189
Sure, tell me.

>>3322192
you think theres a big secret to becoming good at skills

>>3322194
There isn't a big secret to becoming good at skills, there are many secrets to becoming good at skills. I know that for certain because I am good at one thing that doesn't really matter in this conversation. It's simpler than drawing and it still forced me to look at very small details so I could improve at all. The reality tells me how it is, not some internet wisdom shit.

>>3322196
sorry you got suckered into believing that then, see you in 6 years where youre still searching for the big hidden trick to become good while everyone else has already put in the work and got good on their own terms

>>3322197
Yeah, definitely, everytime I come here I see the same low level shit in beginner and draw threads. People definitely improve here for sure, definitely. Those champs.

>>3322197
Not him but you're stupid if you think that people who have already gone through the process of gitting gud can't provide helpful advice to those yet to come.

I'm gud at weightlifting and I could probably save literal years of wasted effort off your life with my advice.

So could a lot of other people because it's not like it's some huge complex mystery that only an old sage could know, but the point remains that experience is valuable.

The guy you're talking to is wrong and annoying, but there's no need to adopt the opposite extreme position just to demonstrate how different and superior you are to him.

>>3322199
wow you see beginners post in the beginner thread and they post low level art as beginners? the governments of the world should fund a study as to why only low level beginners would post in the clearly labeled beginner thread

>>3322200
point to the part where i said there is nothing to gain from listening to the experienced

>>3321350
>everything is hidden behind a paywall
Can someone explain this? What profession has leaning tools that are not "hidden behind a paywall"? An engineer? A doctor? A mechanic? There a plenty of helpful art tutorials and shit online for free, and this board even has an art book piracy thread.

>>3322202
They are the same people also it's convenient to skip draw threads, right :^)?

Why do you people deny reality so much? You spend years upon years of making horrible art and you still can't see that it leads to nowhere. Why are you so fucking stupid? You care to waste hours a day but you can't ask yourself once if it's even getting you anywhere. This board is reddit tier trash.

>>3321350
>>everything is hidden behind a paywall
Which has been breached. You want NMA, SVSLearn, Gnomon? How about all of Schoolism's courses and Watts Atelier? So don't be an ungrateful shite, we have a greater volume of information just in torrent form than artists have ever had in history

>>3322207
>also it's convenient to skip draw threads, right :^)?
it is considering youve demonstrated your retardation to the point where youre probably talking about people youve seen over a relatively short period of time who either
>do not draw to improve their drawings, they are completely satisfied with what they draw and dont give a shit, thus making you retarded for believing these people are not improving because the magic leprechaun hasn't visited them and blessed them with the secret to become good
or
>have made respectable progress in the amount of time you are considering but you are too retarded to see or understand it
im leaning towards its both and you are just a mega retard that needs to stop posting

>terribly bad pay to skill ratio
Should we tell him?

>>3322182
>programming is the fastest way to become better at programming
more like the slowest, mouthbreather. retards who just "code" write monolithic spaghetti code that expands to skyscappers without even linebreaks. this is even so clearly documented there are sites dedicated to awareness and making jokes about it.

How come there isn't even one good artist that comes from /ic/? This place is a containment board for eternal beginners.

>>3322241
this has been answered before. if you were good you wouldn't want to be associated with this shithole. the people with any sense are stuck here for lack of better options. they do not share their work.

>>3322243
If so, how can you know that there are good artists here if they don't post? It's easier to just admit that they don't simply exist.

>>3322247
oh, i'm not saying there are any. i'm pointing out how you wouldn't know even if there were. most everyone here is committed to their painfully misinformed delusions. but there are like a couple people who at least know art that may or may not be good artists as well.

>>3322241
We've had plenty of good artists who posted here. OneVox, Tehmeh, Catbib, Jace, ThDark, Kukez, Tealguy, Mohrbacher, Dot, that chinese dude who briefly taught at FZD. They all stop posting after a while of course, because people like you are complete cunts to them.

That's the whole irony in all of this. You are an eternal beginner, misery loves company so for your own sanity you have to pretend that this place is a containment board for eternal beginners like yourself. So whenever a good artist starts posting, you will try your hardest to make them leave and after a while, less and less good artists will want to post here and slowly but steadily you really are turning this place into a containment board for eternal beginners.

>>3322254
Alright, two things:
1. Prove that any of them posted here at least once in their life, hard proof
2. You talk like you know me, when in reality I don't like posting on this board at all, so I avoid most of negative shit you mentioned. I am not interested in discussions with people who can't do anything at all and I truly believe there are only beginners here. Haven't seen any good artist at all. A miserable place indeed.

>>3321421
More population = more stupid people.
More stupid people = more stupid kids.
more stupid kids = more internet addiction
more internet addiction = higher chance of NGMItium exposure
higher chance of NGMItium exposure = more people seeking the "secret" to "getting gud"
more people seeking the "secret" to "getting gud" = more money for those who take advantage of them.
The world will have idiots no matter what. It is immoral to not lie to them and use them for personal gain. It is immoral not to lie to idiots.

>>3322225sage
i think youre confused as to the point that was being made and are replying to a strawman you concocted in your head, cool that you decided to gamble on making yourself look like a total dipshit by making your post needlessly aggressive though, i always get a good laugh out of people like you

>>3321489

>>3322272
y-you too.

>>3321837
This post is fucking embarrassing.

>>3322179
I think the difference is the Ruan Jia's get concept art jobs from studios and Tumblr DeviantArtists get income from Patreon. I agree the Patreon route is less meritous.

>>3321837
It's a good thing you posted this comment under anon, because if you attached a name to it this stupidity would follow you for the rest of your life.

Warning to anyone reading this thread. DO NOT EVER, THINK LIKE THIS.

>>3322279
>>3322285
>this post is stupid because I said so

Cool argument.

>>3322266
>1. Prove that any of them posted here at least once in their life, hard proof
Just how new are you to this board? They posted in study threads, they posted wips and shit in the draw thread that they didn't upload anywhere else, they did redlines, participated in challenge threads etc, what "hard proof" do you want? I know this is a really overused thing to say, but how about you lurk more instead of acting like a retard?

>>3322295
I have been lurking this board for a long time and I have never seen anyone professional posting here. Redlines sure but that's not a proof of a professional posting here, anyone can do that. Give me hard proofs or don't mention anything you can't prove.

>>3322288
Not every reply is trying to be an argument.

>>3322297
I just posted proof that Catbib posted here, do you want me to go through every single one of the artists I listed you, fucking mongoloid? If you check out ThDark's deviantart, he's literally part of a group called "ic- study group" and "4chan-ic". Also don't think I didn't notice how you changed the goalposts from "good artists" to "professionals", so now you can drag out this pathetic argument with "lol, that's not a real professional". I'm sorry but I'm done wasting my time with you. Just face reality, there have been and there will always be lots of artists who are a million times better than you will ever be who posted, post and are going to post on /ic/.

>>3322300
Don't mind him, he read the sticky on /pol/ way too much or is a kid that's super proud that he's in speech and debate.

>>3322303
I didn't change goalposts, good artists = professionals. Essentially the same thing. If you want to be autistic about it, then keep only "good artists" in your head, that's all. Also checked that ThDark guy, if that's a good artist for you, then no wonder you think there are good artists on /ic/. If that's the best /ic/ can produce then this board is fucked.

Oh yeah and I am catbib because of pic rel. You have to trust me :)

>>3322306
ThDark is 100% a better artist than you will ever be, that I am certain of. As far as Catbib goes, can you find the sketch I posted anywhere on his DA or Tumblr? The final study he uploaded was pic related, the wip he only uploaded to /ic/ and he did that fairly often.

>ThDark
>good

>>3322311
I am already better than ThDark but keep talking, it makes me laugh like hell. He's trash and so are you.

>>3322316
>I am already better than ThDark
post work

>newfags not knowing that saying anyone is good at art on 4chan is going to merit contrarian responses
You faggots need to lurk more. This is like pathetically abysmal.

>>3322316
Yeah, sure you are. Don't get stuck up on ThDark though now that you've been cornered. Just admit it anon, you are way worse than lots of artists who posted or are still posting on /ic/. It's fine, you don't have to keep living in your delusional fantasy construct where somehow everyone is as shit as you are and no good artist ever posted on /ic/ because reasons.

>>3322323
Yes, the only way to get people to appreciate any kind of art that is not Ruan Jia level of autism (and even he still gets a shit ton of flak) is to first present the work as shit. Then you just need to sit back and let the contrarians flood in.

>>3322326
Fucking genius

>>3322324
>some anon are good
>condemn anon as bad
>logic
post work. you're prolly shit, too.

>>3322328
He never claimed to be good though.

I too love coming to some shit boards and defend my subpar skills by hiding as an anonymous. Good job ThDark, you are the man.

>>3321392

Something I've observed from online art communities, but /ic/ in particular, is that giving people specific substantive instruction for free is a no-win situation. Without some proof of investment, you can't tell how seriously one wishes to learn. There is a tendency for the weekend hobbyist, when confronted with difficult and time consuming material that may be outside their grasp, to externalize their failures and place blame on the instruction.

You see this kind of attitude in those numerous threads arguing over which books are just memes, made by people who prioritize questioning academics over proving themselves as worthy students.

What most people really want is camaraderie, rather than submitting to an authority. They're not ready to learn.

>>3322359
You are saying like all books are worth the time which is also not true. It's not difficult to see why anyone would seek the best materials possible. If you are so wise, recommend stuff that is 100% useful and brings guaranteed effects.

>>3322359
i don't know what you mean by submitting to an authority or how that is relevant to learning art. can you elaborate?

>>3322365
What I mean is placing trust in a teacher and the material, in academics, in practical experience and accumulated knowledge that has been vetted by time and their efficacy demonstrated by real work.

This isn't an absolute trust, only a recognition that you are learning what they know, not what they don't. You're not there to challenge, only to absorb, process, and retain, or drop should it not work for you in the long run.

>>3322364
>If you are so wise, recommend stuff that is 100% useful and brings guaranteed effects.

Why would I? I don't care about you. I'm not trying to be rude, or to be a crab, and I'm not here to argue with you. I just don't care and I don't know who you are. However you want to spend your time is your own business.

>>3321350
Is it possible to learn this skill?

>>3322433
Not from /ic/

>>3322384
if i understand, you seem to be condoning people for spending time evaluating what learning path to take over mindlessly accepting authoritative sources. are you for real?

>>3322551
Not him but I spent over a whole fucking year doing nothing but searching for the "best" path, kept jumping from book to book and from course to course, never really committing to anything. But at some point you need to place your faith into someone and just go with it.

ART IS WEIRD, it's not something as academic as math and science, it's really 99% work and training because the more you do it the more you develope a sense of volume, perspective, measures, value, color etc.

This is what a lot of beginners, me included fail to understand, there isn't a single right path for art and there are no magic trick or secrets because a lot of time you won't even be aware that you are improving, your brain will assimilate and adapt concepts you probably don't even understand. You just need to accept this weird concept.

>professional artists will never tell how they were learning, just "keep drawing bruh xD"
Do You expect your artwork to improve by not drawing? You expect people to spoon feed you, huh? Is a paint by numbers more your style?
>takes years before you can even start at all
Shut the fuck up.
>no real demand
See the above
>terribly bad pay to skill ratio
The only solid point you've made.

>>3322564
yeah, it's called diversifying your knowledge. you do a little bit of everything until you can't or don't want to. which is universal to pretty much everything.

i still don't get the authority thing. it sounds mad conservative tho.

>>3322564
>This
You need to enjoy the process of creating art in order to improve. /ic/ is filled with people who do not enjoy this process and so they constantly search for some kind of secret solution, some kind of ancient "git gud method" that they can follow like a paint by numbers that will make them not have to put in the effort.

>>3322581
>search for some kind of secret solution
sad how many find photobashing to be that solution.

>>3322580
The point is that professionals and experienced artists lived and went through our experience and have a way different vision than we do. Some things might sound dumb at the beginning but make sense later one, so you need to trust them, otherwise you might end like those DA fags refusing to accept the importance of fundies and just tracing anime girls all day, stagnating for 5 years.

It's good to compare various sources but you really need to commit to them and don't quit the moment they get boring or if they don't seem to bear results in the first week.

>>3322617
you're conflating shit kids who *enjoy* drawing anime girls with not following the regiment of some authority as dogma. if fundamentals are actually an objective thing then you will acquire that vision by progressing in any visually significant way. if it isn't, it's likely you're learning more cultural signaling than actual art.

>>3322225
Now that posted but I'm a software engineer and you're wrong.

>>3322639
Never said you should accept any dogma, there are lots of schools, styles and methods out there but at some point you should stick to something and trust the teacher otherwise you might end up like me and spend all your time just downloading books and tutorials instead of drawing. Again, art isn't math of science, you won't get good just by understanding some concepts, you really need to work a lot and slowly develope some visual skills that can't be developed just by reading.

You can use Loomis, Hampton, Bridgman, Proko or Vilppu, some will make things slightly easier but you'll still need to grind countless figures to be able to master those concepts, no matter the method.

Finally, some things might seem dumb at first or maybe useless, but later on you'll understand their huge effects, that's why a lot of times you need to trust someone with more experience.

>>3322639
Not him but basically stop posting on 4chan about how loomis is a meme or whatever without even reading one of his books and go practice/study.

>>3323004
i never said anything about not putting in hours actually creating work. you come off like you just want to lecture people rather than have a discussion.

>>3323054
>you come off like you just want to lecture people rather than have a discussion

Not that guy, but you exemplify the problem, don't you? You think lecturing is a bad thing, and you wonder why people don't bother to teach.

There are people ready to learn, and people who aren't. You aren't. You're ready to debate.

>>3322551
>condoning people for spending time evaluating what learning path

You mean condemn? What are you trying to say?

>mindlessly accepting authoritative sources

Here's your problem. You've lost the plot of the discussion. You're not debating merits, you're debating authority. I'm even sure if you know what that word means.

There are sources that have withstood the test of time, and people like you still waste your own time arguing over it. If that's your attitude, why should anyone waste time with you? Talk about ego.

>going into art as a career

Art is something you devote your life to because its the only thing that matters. Get a shitty office drone job to cover the bills and draw in your spare time.

>>3321841
how to draw doesn't teach you how to draw at all.

>>3321350
>life
>everything is hidden behind a paywall
>professional lifers will never tell how they were learning, just "keep living bruh xD"
>takes years before you can even start at all
>no real demand
>terribly bad pay to skill ratio

>>3321350
I have a feeling they just keep telling you 'just keep drawing' because the main struggles with roadblocks are going to be internal and unique to individuals. Advice that is readily given are always said with consideration towards the person asking advice being another person. And really you're asking too much - how an artist who has been drawing for decades has 'got there,' youre basically telling them to boil down everything in seconds. obviously its sort of insulting and the most you deserve is two words (just draw).

And the real nature of it is is that people do not like meeting noobs who ask 'how to make it,' because its just obvious right off the bat that they just want to cruise on autopilot their whole life and not worry about the future. That's flaunting naivete, and most dont want anything to do with that shit.

>>3323747
I get your point but at the same time I could say more than "just draw" after 2 years of learning and I am still a beginner. I don't agree that you shouldn't expand on that.

>>3322989
https://www.se.rit.edu/~tabeec/RIT_441/Resources_files/How%20To%20Write%20Unmaintainable%20Code.pdf

>>3323788
of course, saintly artists will expand on it. just most won't, and you should probably get used to hearing it.