/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3310725
It's industry standard because it's industry standard, so long as it gets the job done that isn't going to change.

I have never considerd PS anything other than a bloated, overpriced program.

>>3310725
-It was never meant to be used for art and adobe will never give it proper functionality for art
-At the advent of digital art Photoshop was the only program available with tools able to used to make polished artworks and so industry veterans tend to rely on it and recommend it to newer artist
-The only reason it is still the industry standard is due to the fact that most adobe products are also Industry standard and also the fact that Adobe software tends to have comparability issus with non Adobe software

>>3310725
name a better one?
>inb4 some clip studio manga studio

i dont get the hate, if you dont like the program, just use another and let us people that earn money use photoshop in peace.

>saifag
can't even take your compliment about photoshop's brushes being good seriously

Some of the programs you Photoshop haters like to jerk off about simply don't offer the same kind of functionality. Neither Sai nor Clip Studio are full replacements for PS. That's mostly the thing with all of these alternatives. Some might have better brushes, or do a particular workflow very well, but sooner or later if you know what the fuck you're doing and how to do it good and fast you will end up in Photoshop at some point in the process.

>>3310785
Nobody is advocating the divorcement of photoshop but that photoshop is ass for drawing compared to tools like sketchbook pro or sai.

>>3310725
because it was intended to be used to edit and correct photographs you fucking imbecile

>>3310759
>inb4 some clip studio manga studio
You saying inb4 doesn't invalidate the fact that CSP is miles better for drawing.

>>3310799
and paper is miles better for drawing than CSP. so i dont see your point. I dont know why you would ever draw in a traditional sense on a computer. i only see pros in terms of digital painting, and/or loosely drawn construction/perspective grids.

i have never seen a memorable "drawing" done in something like CSP, but seen tons done in photoshop.

>>3310786
how so? because of the stabilizer? photoshop has that now too. they probly added it just to shit in the face of guys like you.

CC has a stabilizer now. it's great

>>3310725

You can have Photoshop for $20 per month plan. That's less than 70 cents a day. If you think that's overpriced, you gotta start budgeting better

>>3310725
Barely any of this shit matters. Without skill and ability, all of the options are worth precisely nothing. This is essentially just people doing the old affiliation gang mentality and trying to convince themselves that their choice was rational because being rational is the basis of sanity and survival. And to achieve this position, they have to demonstrate that the OTHER persons choice is irrational.

You can achieve anything on any of them given the time and knowhow. And that's a funny point, because if photoshop is superior due to being able to cut corners and doing things faster, does that not remove your human input value in the creation of the work? Someone who can paint photo realistically on ms paint is inherently more skilled than someone painting on ps with a huge array of brushes and blurring tools.

>>3310725
>over 10 years
>Adobe STILL hasn't fixed the jitterbug
CS6 is a powerful tool for sure, but it's fucking unusable without lazy nezumi. For casual use, I don't know why they expect people to pay so much for what it is. It's nice as a catchall program that does lots of things in a single environment but there are other programs, some of them completely FREE, that do its job better. I swapped over to Krita ages and haven't looked back.

>>3310811
But how do you know that all of them were made in photoshop? Do you check every single one?

>>3310725
>The only good things about it are the brushes
And brushes are the only thing the final image consists of, that's why all painting done outside Photoshop looks like shitty over rendered anime at most, none of the programs have any texture, it's all just round brushes with varying degrees of gradient.

>>3310725
Yeah, Photoshop is dogshit for art, so bad, I don't feel bad about pirating it, and would never pay to use it. Not only that, but it's prone to crashing my drivers abd freezing up due to being a bad memory hog. CSP on the other hand is miles better, and actually makes me feel like I should drop some dosh on a legal version, as it's been very good to me.

>>3310759
CSP is better though, precursoring the comeback you're gonna get doesn't make it any less true. CSP does everything Photoshop does, but better, and is more stable.

I would mention Corel Painter as well if it wasn't so prone to crashing.

>>3310845
>he fell for the monthly subscription meme
I seriously can't condone a monthly subscription for a service that isn't actively giving back.
I thought it was bad when they were trying to charge nobodies hundreds of sheckels for a tool, but this is a joke. If I'm paying for a tool, I want to have that tool. It's like buying a pen and instead of paying 20 bucks for it you pay 5 cents a day. It sounds all fair and good, until you realise it's a sad attempt to milk even more money out of you at no additional effort on the devs part.

I've been using CS~ for like a decade now, since I was a kid. Now I have tons of disposable income, but they've somehow upped their game. I'd buy a copy of CS6 but I'm not paying for this CC crap.

>>3310725
>>3310743

What makes Photoshop good, and de facto the industry standard, is it's extended functionality to provide an efficient, customizable and dependable workflow.

Photoshop has tons of little options that are not directly related to painting, but are very useful or essential in a professional environment.Things like Artboards, Layer Comps, numerous non-destructive editing tools, custom actions, custom scripts, custom filters and custom plugins, etc. etc. Besides that, you can easily swap stuff between photoshop, illustrator, after effects, indesign, etc.

For a pro, making complex things easy to do saves a lot of stress and time, and that's invaluable. Photoshop makes things so much easier for a large number of job functions.

>>3310816

You act as if I'm trying to convert you. Hint: I don't give a shit.

>>3310811
I've never seen a good "drawing" on Photoshop either, just good paintings. PS is ass for drawing.

Yes, pencil and paper is actually the best format. CSP comes closest to that, but offers the benefits of digital as well. PS is only good for paintings thanks to the vast array of brushes, and much more complex photo-manipulation tools. For everything else, you have CSP.

>>3310870
It's still fucking terrible for linework though, and incredibly bloated. Good thing CSP can export .psd files, making an ideal workflow where you can set the bases down in CSP, and do the finishing touches on PS.

>>3310725
It's not badly designed, you're just frustrated because it'll take a little effort to explore the tools and controls, like a little kid. Photoshop is primarily an image editor, and supports industry standards for color. It wasn't mean for draw waifus, it's an IMAGE EDITOR that also has painting tools.

Go watch some videos and make an effort, or use something else.

>>3310743
>-The only reason it is still the industry standard is due to the fact that most adobe products are also Industry standard and also the fact that Adobe software tends to have comparability issus with non Adobe software
LOL. Do you even know what the standards are? Your answer here is one of the biggest non-answers that tries to sound educated that I've ever seen.

But I'll educate you. One standard Photoshop supports and is reliable for, is color spaces for printing, like SWOP, for offset printing in CMYK. Adobe uses color profiles, that are the most accurate, so when a photographer converts his photo to the CMYK color space, it uses color lookup profiles so the color shift is accurate, and the least destructive. This standard makes Photoshop trust-worthy and reliable in a professional workflow.

>>3310867
I don't think that's a good analogy since you will have to replace pens sooner or later.

>download SAI
>new comp
>ctrl+rightclick+drag to resize brush
>nothing happens
>look it up
>apparently no way to do this

I hope not to come back to it, ever.

>>3310725
Photoshop is crap.
But what are the other options?

>>3310937
>ctrl+rightclick+drag to resize brush
Wait, that's a thing?

What programs do this?

>>3310949
PS, adjusts size as it moves horizontally, and hardness as it moves vertically.

>>3310952
Good to know.Thanks.

>>3310937
>>3310949
>>3310952
Also, its actually alt instead of ctrl, i dun goofed

>>3310937
It's ctrl+alt, I use it constantly. I thought there was no way to do this in PS

>>3311066

>>3310937
>>3310949
https://gyazo.com/922e168ffe60b17f0a9ef715ec3f34a4

Photoshop (CS6 at least) is a wonderful program. Super powerful painting program, best brushes, mixer brushes, everything you could need or want. There's a reason Jaime Jones, Ruan Jia, and Craig Mullins chose it. I love Photoshop so much.

I don't like Adobe's new subscription model, though. I bought a boxed copy of CS6 just so I never have to deal with it.

>>3310870

Have you ever posted your art here, VC? I never see a post of yours that isn't good. I bet your art is good, too.

>>3311073
using is not loving

>>3311073
I know you aren't but the way you wrote that makes you look like a real adobe shill lmao

it's first and foremost a photo editor

thread

>>3310852
My man.

>>3310851
underrated comment. I have seen some japanese artists who had like PhotoShop version from 2004 paint unbelievable pictures, with Wacom Intuos2.

The gear doesn't really matter if you know how to manipulate your colors, and have a personal way of doing the finishing touches.

>>3310932
sssh. People in /ic/ mostly talk about being artists, they don't actually draw so that they would expend a whole pencil

>>3310941
getting good at art so you don't have to blame your incompetence on the software you use.

>>3310725
>overpriced
?????

>muh LINEART
>muh stabilizers
>0 mentions of physical color mixing
Fucking crabs.

>>3310725

ITT: I don't know how to torrent PS

>>3310851

>>You can achieve anything on any of them given the time and knowhow. And that's a funny point, because if photoshop is superior due to being able to cut corners and doing things faster, does that not remove your human input value in the creation of the work? Someone who can paint photo realistically on ms paint is inherently more skilled than someone painting on ps with a huge array of brushes and blurring tools.

That is a dumb statement.

Would you walk 20 miles every day from your work and back to appreciate the authentic human input value? Do you drill holes with a hand drill to hang up a painting? Do you actually refuse to use any tool or clothing because they all take away from the core value and meaning of your humanity?

Someone who can paint realistically in MS Paint is. . . more skilled at painting realistically in MS Paint. Nothing more. It makes this person at best a patient person. And being patient enough to spend hours to do something in MS Paint that I can do in 10 minutes in Photoshop is a skill I think I can do without.

>>3311382
It addresses the question of what bonuses these softwares would have over each other. Your answer there would suggest that a "superior" software is the one which gets you the result "fastest", not which gets you the best "result".

A next question for that would be which software is easiest to learn and get into in order to achieve that result. In which case it's just a matter of which has the smoothest UI, the least bloat, and the fewest options while still maintaining a high degree of customization

>>3310725
Think of it is an image manipulation program first and a drawing/painting program second. It has a ton of powerful ways to edit and process images but since adobe never set out with the intention of making a digital art program they never streamlined it to be one.

>>3310845
>he has a subscription
How does it feel feeding your child, Adobe 70 cents a day

>>3311178
If you want old versions its not

I don't know, OP. Why did flash, the software that was not designed for animation, have to actually die before people switched to much better, actual animation alternatives like toonboom? Are humans just lemmings?

>>3311185

What is "physical color mixing"?

>>3311491
He's either just parroting a marketing buzzword or referring to linear RGB blending, which I don't really think is that big of a deal

>>3311491
>>3311504
Pigments. Fucking pigments. The thing you use to create art in real physical world.
The only function that can make any program feel fundamentally different in terms of art creation.
That's the only valid reason to pick any painting software over Photoshop.
ArtRage has this, Corel Painter most likely has it too.

>>3311520
Corel Painter is such a piece of shit nowaday.

>>3311567
It was buggy piece of shit with horrifying interface even 10 years ago.
Sad to see such a waste of potential.

>>3310772
This. Who the hell uses PS to draw, when Sai is superior in every way? I only use PS for finishing touches, as the good lord intended.

>>3310863
>shitty over rendered anime
There's your problem. Stop looking at that and lumping in all other digital art with one style of drawing.

>>3310937
I thought you just used the [ and ] keys?

>>3311694
>all other digital art with one style of drawing
All other digital art styles are done in photoshop because over rendered anime is the only thing sai and other bullshit can do. It's simply impractical to paint anything else with a round gradient brush to everyone who paints differently switches to photoshop.

>>3310863
>>3311759
>none of the programs have any texture
I've really noticed this in CSP. I mean, for a program with paint in its title, it's pretty shit at painting.

Its interface is just too intuitive for me to give it up. Is there any way to bullshit texture into CSP's brushes?

>>3310870
layer masks are a goddamn blessing.

>>3310875
That's why I do my sketches and drawings in Sketchbook Pro and paint them in Photoshop (Which I got with a student discount).

>>3311173
A lot of these complaints seem to just be people who got overwhelmed by all of it's tools and just don't know where to start.

>>3311765
You can very easily have textures in CSP, I have no idea what he's on about. The limitation of CSP brushes is the lack of dual brush.

And no, you don't need textures to paint "anything else other than over rendered anime"

>>3311774
>You can very easily have textures in CSP
if it's so easy I wish you'd actually just answer the question

I would be using Krita already but...

There is NO software in the world with transformation tools as great as Photoshop's, like Warp and Perspective Distortion, and the cool filters...

>>3311774
Jesus Christ this image is having sex with my eyes

>>3311791
Have you ever considered using CSP for more than 5 minutes?

>>3311819
Not the other guy advocating for CSP, even though I'm using his image. But you should try CSP's perspective tools sometime, see if they're up to your standards.

>>3311520

Pigments? We are talking about digital painting, what the fuck are you smoking

>>3311825
CSP warp tool, iirc, isn't as good as Photoshop's because they lack bezier curves in their transformation handles. But I think they're good enough most of the time anyways

>>3311520
>>3311826

I think he is talking about the fact Photoshop makes colors less saturated when you blend them, like they are real, physical pigments, its in the sofware's code.

This is why so many images become muddy when you use the eyedropper tool a lot in Photoshop

I think it would be fun to find a software that doesn't change the saturation or allow you to choose how the software blends colors

>>3311825
What is CSP and does it have the feature I mentioned?

>>3311824
And lose the joy of intermittently discovering neat shit like this? No thanks.

>>3311831
>What is CSP and does it have the feature I mentioned?
Clip Studio Paint. It has them to a lesser extent than Photoshop. Like >>3311829 said, there's no bezier curves so the warping and distortions aren't as precise. It also has a much smaller range of filters. But if you're looking for something to draw in, it's the best option imo.
>>3311826
I think he's talking about the way brushes interact with the painting. Corel Painter's about the only thing that tries to replicate real life, most other programs go for options and customizability over mimicking life.

>>3311844
>>3311831
C'mon, dudes, I'm talking about fucking RGB vs RBYW. And yes, that's what makes digital colors dirty and desaturated. Hue and saturation aren't even a thing for you display so colors themselves don't mix, their values of R/G/B (responsible also for saturation and brightness) do.
Well, I guess what happens on display has much more to do with physics of light so I shouldn't have called pigment-like mixing this way but whatever.

it has many great features as well. you clearly don't know what you're talking about. (but yes the price is insane)

>>3311831

You're partially correct. Colours get muddy (or actually desaturated) when you mix them because that's how computer screens work.

- A pixel is made of three sub-pixels: red, green, blue.
- Each subpixel has a brightness range from 0 to 255.
- White is the brightest because all 3 sub-pixels are emitting light at the highest value, while any colour that has the combined light of 2 subpixels (yellow, green, magenta) is brighter than the light of a single subpixel.
- Greys appear when the values of each subpixel are exactly, or close together (51/51/51, 204/204/204, etc.)

So, when you're painting and you're mixing 2 colours that both have a contrasting combination of subpixel colours (r+b with b+g or g+b with r+g), the end result is a value that has r+b+g, which is closer to grey (and therefore more muddy/desaturated).

Photoshop has an option in the Colour Settings that allows you to blend colours using a Gamma value of 1. When you use that, colours are not so muddy because the resulting grey is made lighter instead of darker. The overall result in your painting can be nicer, because you won't have those dark lines between colours.


Ideally (and hopefully in the near future) we will be able to buy screens that won't have rgb subpixels arrays, but rgbmyc. The range of colours that can be accurately represented will be much larger. i think some tv manufacturer (Samsung?) made a screen a few years ago with additional yellow subpixels, claiming greater colour accuracy.

>>3311925
>Photoshop has an option in the Colour Settings that allows you to blend colours using a Gamma value of 1. When you use that, colours are not so muddy because the resulting grey is made lighter instead of darker. The overall result in your painting can be nicer, because you won't have those dark lines between colours.

This looks interesting, I've been using PS for 10 years and never seen this, how do I do it?

>>3311925
>>3311964
Nevermind, I found it, there is a difference but its kind of small, it does look nicer though

>>3311964

go to Edit/Colour Settings. At the bottom of the menu there's a toggle which says "Blend RGB colours using Gamma". Keep the value on 1.

anyone know how to fix csp lag ?
using version 1.6.2

>>3311188
>>3311178
(am op) I did torrent it. And it's ass.

>>3312000
Update to latest version, finally fixed it for me.

>>3311983
Wow, that's incredible. Is there any way to do this in Krita? I tried playing around with color profiles and couldn't really find one that worked that way.

>>3312719
Nevermind, it's sRGB-elle-v2-g10.icc

Anyone know about the "rendering intent" setting in CSP as it relates to color?

https://www.clip-studio.com/site/gd_en/csp/userguide/csp_userguide/500_menu/500_menu_file_environment_win_color.htm

>>3312768
Actually, that one didn't work for me for some reason (blacks ended up dominating the color wheel), but I found using the CIELAB color space working wonders. I really like the colors that come up when mixing but I hate how I have to export as JPG, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice for now since I'm mostly doing digital painting.