/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3297502
it's been fun ever since I made it

>>3297502
When you stop caring about being an anatomy autist, it becomes fun.

when u start studying gesture

>>3297502
when you can apply fundies to an idea without it being a chore

When the things on the paper look like acceptable representations of what’s inside your head. Not even perfect, just ‘good enough’. Then it’s high times from there on.

Only just recently but it comes and goes. If I burn myself out it’s hell

It ebbs and flows. sometimes its fun, other times is shit never ending work.

But for me the funnest was when i did webcomics.

>>3297592
>It ebbs and flows. sometimes its fun, other times is shit never ending work.

Same

>>3297502
whenever you stop asking that question

>>3297502
Its fun when you're just doing things for the sake of doing them
>sitting in class daydreaming about dumb things
>realize I can actually make those things happen
>make it happen
its fun.

of course there's the pain in teh ass of learning new things, but remember you can create things now, there's no reason you shouldn't be making your fantasies reality.

>>3297502
its only fun when i draw something i like and it doesnt look like shit

so basically 1% of the time

Its also fun when you can be ironically unironically symbolic and draw something that makes no sense to people but you can actually justify how that process came to be.

>>3297502
Not yet.

>>3297502
it was fun before I found ic
now I realise how crap I am and even though thats what you need to get good it makes it less fun
its a different kind of fun now

Honestly, drawing is fun 98% of the time. If you come to a point where it is not fun, you should not force it. These people that say you suppose to draw 10 hours a day are fucking faggots. Art suppose to be a pleasure.

>>3298104
This

Now all I do is grind fundies all day. Can't even seem to work on my own stuff cause I just get hung up on doing something, seeing that it's shit, then jump right back to the fundies.

>>3298106
wow anon I have the exact same problem
I have no finished pieces that arent old
I get hung up on perspective most of the time

It used to be fun when I just drew whatever I liked and never gave shit about stuff like fundamentals, values, gesture. Now that I see all the flaws in my work it's just frustrating, I dread grinding the stuff I need to know to push past this, and I genuinely worry art will never again be fun for me.

It depends, some pieces just plain aren't fun. Some days aren't fun, sometimes I have weeks at a time where art feels like pulling teeth.

It becomes fun for me, generally, when I have a convergence of confidence and competence. The goalposts shift, naturally, competent for me two years ago is different than it is now, but that's the general rule. It's when you're doing a challenging piece but know you can do it, and then you manage to pull it off. It feels great, and you can get really immersed in it. The confidence loosens you up and the competence makes sure things fall into place the way you intend for it to.

I usually need to feel quite focused to get into that zone, though. When I'm unfocused I tend to get distracted, bored, irritated, etc. Improving my focus is a becoming a bigger priority for me nowadays than even improving my art, because I think if I get the former the latter will come much more quickly.

>>3297502
it never does, it never did, wish my parents didnt force me into this career

>>3297502
Rendering was always fun for me but i absolutely hate drawing.

>>3298182
same

It's only fun when you're good.

>>3298105
You don't have to draw 10 hours a day, but someone who draws 10 hours a day will be much better than someone who draws 2.

>>3298282
Not necessarily. Someone who spends 2 hours a day doing thoughtful and intentional study will be better than someone mindlessly scribbling for 10 hours a day. Self-critique and direction are essential to improvement.

>>3298288
Someone who does thoughtful and intentional study for 10 hours will be better than someone who does it for 2. I didn't think I'd have to specify that for you.

It has always been fun because I naturally improved from beginner to intermediate in an organic, slow pace when I was about 13, and way before I found /if/. Slowly absorbing DA tutorials, experimenting and growing.

If you're a beginner doing chicken scratch at like 21yo I feel sorry for you. You're already way too jaded to do mindless fun drawing when you know it sucks.

>>3298301
this is why you do painting when you're older. it's a good way to return to that childish mindset because of how versatile and dynamic the medium can be. then after fixing your brain, you can return to drawing to study things.

>>3297502
>if you say this I know you're lying.

It's been fun since day 1, bitch.
Better question; the hell are you doing that's not allowing you to have fun with drawing? Ever thought that maybe it isn't for you and you should quit and stop torturing yourself.

>>3297502
Lying? Drawing has always been fun for me, get over it. If it's not fun for you, then you're probably not going to succeed as an artist. I don't care if it's guitar, piano, writing, painting, or drawing, no successful artist of any measure dreads doing the actual thing, and hates doing it, and has to force themselves to do it. It simply doesn't happen. Your problem is your fantasy/desire of being an artist, whatever it is, doesn't match the reality of actually being one.

I've been drawing since I could pick up a crayon. I've always drawn, as much as I could. It's like breathing to me. I've never had to push myself, except doing work that was uninspired or forced, like for class, but I'd simply want to draw something else, not want to draw at all.

I would question your motives for wanting to be an artist, or consider trying mediums that you don't have to force yourself to use. Not enjoying drawing simply isn't a thing, outside of this forum.

It spares me from the intrusive thoughts and boredom :D

>>3298361
the typical tard you find here has obnoxious levels of unrealistic expectation coupled with almost zero life experience or education. so then they decide what is best for studying and grind stupid shit over and over until they hate themselves, their art, and everyone else. these types aren't lying when they say they hate drawing. what they're doing is worthy of disgust.

>>3298365
Yeah, I get that. I've worked and known as friends successful creative types for years.

>I wanna be a photographer but I hate taking photos
>I want to be a rock guitarist but I hate playing guitar
>I want to be an artist but I hate drawing

The real world doesn't work that way.

I also get that 90%+ of this forum are just needy little neckbeards who dream of adulation and fame on social media, and have no real interest in the reality of being an artist. Or they want free porn. Or what you said. I try to ignore those types, and just help the people who seem to be honestly trying.

>>3298369
My favorite are those who want to make video games.

>I want to create a video game, but I don't want to program, draw, or make music

And yeah, a lot of people have this thought processes.

>>3298369
the problem with helping people in places like this is you have to compete to be heard among the delusions and angst of the failed crabs that are hell-bent on pulling everyone else into their deadend existence.

>>3297502
when the dunning kruger kicks in.
>>3298104
>its a different kind of fun now
this

>lying

I haven't been able to sit down to properly draw in months and can feel my spirit slowly dissipating

>>3298376
I know, which is why I don't come around often. Too many crabs, too many shit attitudes. Art school was so much better, when you're in a creative environment like that, it kicks your own motivation and passion higher. There's nothing like it. This is the only art community I've ever experienced that's based on despair, neckbearding, and sheer delusion/denial. I've never seen talent questioned anywhere else. I've never seen people reduce the process of art to a mindless, dull, excruciating grind like here.

>>3298336
>>3298361
>Ever thought that maybe it isn't for you and you should quit and stop >torturing yourself.
>Not enjoying drawing simply isn't a thing, outside of this forum.

So is this paragraph from pic related just bullshit?

>One of our most significant findings was that most factors the students >had identified as being important to improvement were also seen as >labor-intensive and not much fun; the only exceptions were listening to >music and sleeping. Everyone from the very top students to the future >music teachers agreed: improvement was hard, and they didn’t enjoy the >work they did to improve. In short, there were no students who just loved >to practice and thus needed less motivation than the others. These >students were motivated to practice intensely and with full concentration >because they saw such practice as essential to improving their >performance.

tl;dr: Music students at a prestigious school don't enjoy training for the sake of training.

I don't understand why people are needlessly aggressive towards people who say improvement is hard and that they aren't having fun drawing. The way I see it improving yourself in any art requires moving out of your comfort zone and fixing your own flaws. That by definition is, at least a little, uncomfortable. What am I missing here?

>>3298383
>I've never seen talent questioned anywhere else. I've never seen people reduce the process of art to a mindless, dull, excruciating grind like here.
yeah, this weirdness is why i lurk and sometimes give a poster a hard cattleprod. it's really strange and i'm attracted to that kind of thing. :\

>>3298386
So that's how greentext works.
sorry

>>3298386
>So is this paragraph from pic related just bullshit?

Yes. Those books are written for people who shitty mental health and help fat americans feel better about themselves by finding terms to explain their failures in the best way possible.

Now fuck off if you don't like it.

>>3297502
Things are fun when you are taking necessary steps to work towards a goal. You should try to work on your mindset going into a drawing, your goal shouldn't only be based around "I am going to make an awesome drawing!", but more towards "I am going to draw today, yay!". I think there is also lots of confusion between fun/happiness and meaningful engagement. Try to aim towards meaning, which will be a lot more reliable to sustain you towards your journey, especially when things get hard in your life around you.

>>3298386
the thing is, would a musician be in school if they were good at learning? what would be the point in subjecting yourself to the annoyingly slow pace of classwork? if you just went for the social side the classwork would still be unfun.

you have to also take into account that it's 2018 and we have mass information culture and dedicated, extremely funded entertainment industries that provide people with pre-packaged 'fun' activities. when you step outside that environment everything will seem dull and mundane. most people today are creatively crippled because of it.

tldr; it's fun to grind in train simulator but driving actual trains sucks ass because of high entertainment conditioning.

>>3298386
>tl;dr: Music students at a prestigious school don't enjoy training for the sake of training.
You are sadly and laughably wrong. The students at Berklee literally live attached to their instruments. I know 3 people who attended, they enjoy the process and routine of practice.

Besides, I know you're just making shit up, because the crab bucket you live in demands it. I knew that you and the others would show up and explode in rage, but it doesn't matter. There's the real world, and there's this weird dysfunctional fantasy you live in.

PS - you won't make it as an artist in either world.

>>3298417
>I know you're just making shit up

It's a quote from a book. I didn't even agree with it. I just wanted to know why everyone disagrees with that sentiment.

How does that post make me a crab? I feel people here would happy to know that even successful artists don't enjoy practice all that much. They would be happy that they aren't alone in thinking that polishing their skills is difficult.

>>3298417
>>3298402
>would a musician be in school if they were good at learning?

Maybe? In theory a instructor should be able to accelerate the learning process. I don't know the reality of art schooling though.

I don't understand your point about mass information culture since people who want to make art will still exist. They'll go through the dull, mundane work required to get the skills they want and make something beautiful.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

>>3298427
grinding doesn't exist for the creative. it's literally not possible the way they construct and interact with the world. you can prolly communicate the concept to them but it will cause them so much boredom that they cannot complete the actual task at hand.

my point about information culture is people wanting to become artists, coming from a lifetime of instant gratification culture and dumned-down gaming, will first seek out instructions. upon finding the 'fundamentals' they will see only a large gap of time investment to 'grind' out until they 'make it'. which isn't how art works or even how one should be training for even basic technical skills. even students in STEM aren't this bad at learning, and the concepts there are way more straightforward conceptually.

>>3298430
how does it work then

>>3298436
grinding? it doesn't. hence the crab bucket. those who improve are doing other things than just what they say. like when a pro athlete says all you need to succeed is good friends and family, or some useless line. what they say is next to meaningless to reality.

>>3297502
>if you say this I know you're lying.

You don't want to make art, you want adulation and respect. That's probably why you will never improove. You have no soul or passion.
I have been drawing robots and shit since I can remember, creating things always was fun for me, even with my depressive self hatred, and even when I was 12 and my drawings looked like shit.
I seriously don't understand people like you.

>>3298361
>>3298369
>>3298371
>>3298383
>>3298388
I agree with you guys on most things, but I don't think talent it's a thing.
Also, fundamentals are hard and sometimes preety boring to learn, so a lot of that really it's just grinding to get better. /ic/ just has an autistic tendency to be unable to extrapolate fundamentals to practice on actually interesting stuff.

>>3297502
if you start drawing later in life you need to develop some skill before it starts really getting fun

>if you say this i know you're lying
someone that started when they were 6 and never stopped will already be semi-decent at drawing by the time they develop taste or self awareness

obviously if you put in 100% effort and it turns out like shit you're going to be demoralized
just keep going

>>3297502
Questions like that get me thinking some of you get into art because you want this perceived glamorous, bohemian lifestyle, not because you want to create anything.

>>3297502
it's always been fun with some particular times having frustration, usually in regards to a specific piece, a specific thing i'm trying to learn, or a singular aspect of my own work -- but the general whole has always been "fun"

(exception: when i quit doing drugs art was really irritating because it felt way more boring to draw mindlessly for long periods without being high, but after 1.5 years sobriety that started to go away)

>>3298454
well I do have things I want to create but what turns me off is knowing that i'm years of practice away from actually making it a reality and that all my work looks like shit

>>3298386
>So is this paragraph from pic related just bullshit?

If what you quoted is true, then yes it's complete bullshit. Are you retarded?
Plus, these "prestigious schools" are over-rated anyways. You don't need to be in one to become an amazing musician.

>>3298436

>>3298505
good post

>>3298448
I can't stop laughing at that pic, b/c its true

>>3298505
So I've been wasting my time grinding figures, gesture and anatomy for the last 3 years?

>>3298505
Isn't this bad advice? If you start your drawing badly there is not much hope fixing it with reference afterwards. Studying reference is not about copying mark for mark, but copying the basic shapes and volumes.

>>3298561
It's good advice if you replace "reference" for "reference and studying fundamentals". If your perspective it's bad, of course you don't go for references, you go for a book that teaches you how to calculate that specific thing that you don't know how to do.


>>3298554
Jesus christ, why would you draw one single thing for 3 years? What finished piece have you produced in that time?

>>3298505
I feel like this is how you stay deviant-art tier for the rest of your life.

>>3298604
Well, your feeling is shit.
The post isn't shaming fundamentals, it's shaming those who do fundamentals and ONLY fundamentals. You need to apply that shit to your personal work.

If you're drawing animu waifus, draw them and who cares if it's cringe. Meanwhile, you're also putting time into Vilppu's figure drawing and learning perspective. From those 2 things, you apply their techniques onto your cringe animu waifu. Within a few years, it'll look less cringy.
It's that easy... the idea anyways. Practice at least 2 hours a day and you'll be there in about 5 years.

>>3298505
Ehhh this is kinda true and kinda not.

When you're having trouble representing something on paper then yes, looking at a reference will provide immediate help and improve your piece. The thing is, you should strive to be able to do drawings WITHOUT constant need for reference. And for that, you need a full understanding of form, anatomy, perspective - that is, fundamentals. Sure, you'll naturally observe and absorb some common regularities by copying reference (unless you're a total idiot), but you'll still have trouble applying it to more challenging pieces because you won't actually know the construction. To me, grinding fundies is more or less building a skill of 3d visualization and a form library in your head. If you just mindlessly copy exercises and never actually try understanding and applying them to your own work then even 10hs a day won't help you.

>>3297502
It was only really fun when I was a child and since I've been doing it for money it hasn't really been fun since the stress of the job and having to always perform good for someone else are inseparable from it. When you work you don't really have the freedom to suck, which doesn't make things particularly fun.

If you want to have fun drawing I recommend keeping it as a hobby. Have some fun personal project like making a comic or something and just enjoy yourself.

>>3297502
>When does drawing get fun? When did it become fun for you?
when you can draw something not disgusting
>whens that?
when you can draw from observation competantly
>whens that?
when you understand keys and bargue
>how long does that take
a few months

>>3297502
It's a lot more "fun" in the beginning. Everything is still fresh and new and there's so much things to explore. Goals are more clearer and distinct, with a very high sense of clarity.
Study perspective - bam!
Study construction - bam!
Study anatomy - bam!

But after time passes, goals become more hazy and diminishing returns starts to set in. Classic fundie books can no longer handhold you towards massive improvements like it used to and you need to start to wham your head to the wall and really start to "figure yourself out".
You'll be doing a lot of crazy and hair-tearing trial and errors with very little clarity from "authority figures" that once give you a sense of safety and confidence. Even then, you may not even arrive to a satisfactory answer, at least not for a while.

But it's a different fun that you can learn to enjoy

it was always fun for me anon, otherwise why would i do it? i dont depend financially on it or anything, ive been drawing fron childhood and ive been changing interests all the tine but drawing never left it was always there to me never got bored of it. if you dont jave fun with it why even do it?

>>3298993
I laugh when people suggest this is the goal. Has anyone here heard of master copies? The goal isn't to work without references, the goal is to understand them better. The human brain naturally will start to piece together what it thinks you know, this is how you see great artists get worse. Because at some point they stopped looking at references and went pure style. Never stop looking at references, always keep trying to perfect your anatomy. You don't need to depend on them so heavily, but never be afraid to look at them again or keep something to the side while you work.

And OP, if you're not having fun already, you'll never find joy in art. Art is pain that you live to work on, because you want to see results. But art is never satisfying, there's always room to improve. The enjoyment is in the struggle and the reward is when you can finally feel satisfied in that current moment of accomplishing something you've had in mind for years. Also, never hold yourself back, even if you can't draw what you want today, the more you at least try, the sooner you'll get to where you wanted. Dont let your fear of your piece not being perfect, hold you back from drawing at all.

>>3298993
>>3299426
>How to tell someone is a shit artists and try to bring everyone down to their level; the post

NGMI for sure.

It's no longer fun. I just do it because it's the only skill I have. However one day I'll be a god at drawing. Then it'll be fun.

>>3299581
BAD FEEL BAD FEEL

>>3298554
Yes. 3rd year students in any art school or college art department will be working on finished pieces, mastering technique, and starting to work towards portfolio pieces in the final year. Their "grinding", or learning the fundamentals, is the first year.

You fell for the crab bucket trap here, you listened to people who have no clue what happens in art education past the first beginning steps. Art school is to lead you past those steps, in to the next level - you've been spinning your wheels for 3 years, and all you did is get good at grinding fundamentals. There was no education there, as you didn't have someone show you how to take the fundamentals and start creating finished work, with the fundamentals as foundation.

As a third year student, you should be working on composition, content, narrative, and finished work. If you're still "grinding findies" you've wasted a lot of time - but that's all this forum is really good for, wasting people's time.

The early steps of art education don't take that long, with good teachers. It's the steps from leaving school, and heading towards master status that can take decades.

>>3299581
same

therapist says i need some more practical skills under my belt that are employable. said i should take an internship and get out more and socialize to find a craft I'd be more interested in but its hard as shit when youre a neet without a driver's license

>>3299620
Well, at least it was only 3. There seem to be people here who have been doing that for 5 or even 10. Still plenty of time for me.