/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3286431
dude i already fapped like 6 times today

>>3286434
pls respond

Copy Ishikei's drawings until you understand his method and techniques.

>>3286431
Can someone redline those hips.

>>3286431
>face straight on
>hips are totally out of place
>stomach looks weird, like its twisted, but not

yea go ahead and draw like him

>>3286591
ngmi

>>3286591
krugtard as fuck

>>3286431
Anime/manga is a highly derivative style. Studying fundamentals can help, but nothing will help you achieve your goal more than copying a thousand anime/manga pictures a day until you can replicate the style you're going for.

>>3287578
>nothing will help you achieve your goal more than copying a thousand anime/manga pictures a day until you can replicate the style you're going for.
>Being a xerox machine and downright copying instead of critical thinking and problem solving will help you make it bro!

>>3287592
pretty much, yes, it will. it will train your hand-eye coordination, and help you to learn proportions, and will even help you to identify common anime style features and eventually replicate it on your own

>hurr durr that's copying
Yeah no shit, the OP asked how to draw like a specific person

>>3287578
you don't draw

>>3287612
post work.

>>3287692
He's right you know.

>>3287592
I feel like getting good at anime would be a mix of learning all the proper technique and analysis, and becoming a "Xerox machine" and being able to copy/draw in that very specific anime style

>>3286431
for one thing, there's anatomy involved. like the ASIS/obliques popping out on the sides of the hips, skin folds, abdomen/abs shape, etc. learning about anatomy (bones, muscles, external features) can help you understand WHY certain things are shaped the way they are. then, you can remember them when you are drawing your own drawings

for posing, you can get creative and look/think about porn for inspiration.. poses that turn you on. or, just casual poses of girls you can look at from pictures or real life, or get inspired by other works/manga/anime. after a while, if you memorize the human body, you can experiment by posing shit from your head, like posing a little action figure/doll on the page. understanding the construction of the body and how it moves like a machine may help with this. read george Bridgmans "the human machine"

Fundamentals, then copying a bunch. Fundamentals ARE necessary. It's like learning the alphabet before speaking a language; if you don't know them, people will notice.

Do studies of it, paint and colors, and try to achieve the same results to gain a bunch of "tools" you can use to make your own art. Then just produce artworks.

For all his occasional anatomical fuckups, ishikei's work literally makes my mouth water.

>>3286431
hrrrrrg

you must fap relentlessly, and to everything you fap to, pic or frame, you must also copy in drawing.

>>3287612
post work

>>3287592
>how do I draw like X
>copying X won't help
You're fucking retarded.

>>3289554
>Copies other artists for years on end
>wonders why he still can't draw his animays
>realizes he's been approaching it incorrectly all these years
>hasn't learned a thing
>is extremely salty about it
>copes by shutting himself out from the truth by being in a constant denial stage
>drags others down by championing the copying/tracing meme
>attacks anyone else claiming otherwise

>>3289571
>how do I draw like X
>copying X won't help
Again, you are fucking retarded.

>>3289571
Copying the image itself isn't enough. You have to copy the method they use, which most of the time means having to guess it yourself unless they posted a tutorial or recording somewhere.

>>3289721
If you want to learn a particular type of approach you study the subject matter, copying infers that you do not study but rather simply get to the answers without knowing the how or why. If you want to be successful especially in a field that demands knowledge behind form and shape you must know how you got to the answer, only a plebeian is concerned about getting the answer without knowing the how or why, it's the how that is most important and being able to understand why it is would complete the learning process.

This is the absolute state of /ic/

I don't know, you ask me. I'm trying.

How you managed to pick the exact same picture is beyond me.

>>3289808
Did you learn anything?

>>3289808

change your way of thinking when it comes to placement and the proportion of the head to the features when it comes to drawing animu. trace if you have to. and if you wanna practice his rendering do some render balls (do a flesh ball, a hair ball, etc.)

>>3289825
Stop posting.

>>3289811
I don't consider myself being able to really paint, so yes, I've learned quite a bit about color use, shadows and blending doing stuff like this.

>>3289825

I'm only copying the rendering. I don't care for Ishikei's style, which in this picture is heavily based on the Lucky Star style anyway. There are many ways to draw "animu" and I don't think Ishikei would want anyone to copy them literally. I'm not even aiming for this kind of lineart.

It's beyond me how rendering yet more spheres will help me emulate a certain style of rendering figures.

>>3289836
>which in this picture is heavily based on the Lucky Star style anyway
No it's not

>>3289850
On second thought, you're mostly right, it's 99% Ishikei. If it'd have been "heavily based" on the style it'd have the sharp eyes for Kagami.

Nonetheless it's a moot point because I don't even care about having accurate lines let alone an accurate style: the lines were done to get them out of the way for the rendering.

I think anyone is better off developing their own style than copying a particular one. Japan draws in a hugely varied way even among moeblobs, and there's more than enough trash Ishikei clones out there.

I know that /ic/ thinks I'm doing it wrong because I'm not trying to seriously pretend I'm Japanese, but I don't see anyone else posting any work...

>>3289861
>I know that /ic/ thinks I'm doing it wrong because I'm not trying to seriously pretend I'm Japanese

So what does being a Nip have to do with anything other than having the ability to read and write moon runes to attract weebs?

>>3286431
what do you mean "how"? You literally posted the image that show where and how the lines need to be placed. Are you stupid?

>>3289881
/ic/ argues that there is a very specific way of "Japanese drawing", and to attain said drawing you need to be Japanese. Ignoring all of the foreign influences that have led to the thing we know as "anime/manga", of course.

So instead of creating their own style based on the things they like, they let their Nip inferiority complex nag them towards tracing and copying Japanese art that will be "outdated" in 5 years anyway.

>>3289895
So you actually believed that one faggot who goes around saying that? You realize he was shitposting, right?

>>3289903
No, I don't. There's no way he's serious. But in the "online art world" there's been this kind of idea going around forever.

Don't forget that most people have forgot/don't even know that mangaka are mostly just emulating French, Italian and Belgian comics. A large number of the good Japanese artists learn from fucking Loomis himself, or from people who have learned from Loomis.

Sometimes when I browse Artstation or whatever, I can recognize the Koreans from the Taiwanese and the Japanese and the likes, so I'm not arguing there isn't some very popular stylistic trends going on, but it's not like it's genetically inherent. Just do what you like.

Here's where I am to now.

I noticed I de-saturate the colors too much with how I lay them down. I'm color picking from the source. The colors are surprisingly strong, so it's alright if they look a bit strong when you lay the shadows down without any blending.

Like I said, I don't think I can *really* paint yet.

>>3289969
you need to use the airbrush tool.
look back and forth and yours and his elbows, yours is much smaller, this could have been fixed by MEASURING PROPORTIONS before you started. also, what makes anime faces cute is the distance between the large eyes. your eyes are smaller and closer together, and her cranium isn't as huge judging by the pigtails. And finally, I notice that a lot of pro artists do very confident minimal strokes, like you can tell he rendered the thighs with a couple of swipes, while yours look like you spent too much time with a hard round brush.

>>3289997
If you'd have read the thread at all, you'd know I'm only going for the rendering look. I can see all of the issues with the drawing, and I don't care at all.

You wish anyone here has lines like Japanese pros in the first place.

This is my first time trying to seriously render stylized stuff in color, so I'm not gonna make it look too clean or nice. Trying to even get a semblance of "the look".

Anyone who actually draws is free to post their versions. Surely there's someone here who has it figured out better.

This is as far as I go. I learned what I wanted.

Push the colors more. More defined shapes in the hair. Don't use a huge brush for the lines. etc.

Also res is too low for painting this small.

>>3290005
way to take critique
>I can see all of the issues with the drawing, and I don't care at all.
what's even the point then?

>>3290034
I support his mindset, his goal was to understand the rendering, it would take alot of time to make a full copy of the picture

You study by isolating your weaknesses

>>3289969
>I noticed I de-saturate the colors too much with how I lay them down. I'm color picking from the source. The colors are surprisingly strong, so it's alright if they look a bit strong when you lay the shadows down without any blending.
>
>Like I said, I don't think I can *really* paint yet.


>so it's alright if they look a

Anon, you have no clue what you are doing.

>I noticed I de-saturate the colors too much
Why are you desaturating the colors at all?

Learn how to draw better and learn about values first.

>>3290072
desaturating colours in the right places and amounts is a part of good colour, colour saturation conservation or something. making your colours desaturated makes other colours look more saturated in comparisan

Values are important and easier to grasp but there's nothing wrong with tackling colour at the same time, colour and value go hand in hand, I wish I had studied them at the same time instead of leaving them till later

>>3290081
You are like some autistic kid who wreck the road and a few gardens in a car and then starts to educate others about driving theories when they point out you have no clue what you are doing.

>>3290091
nice ad hominem

>>3290092
how is it an adhominen. The entire point have been from the start that you have no clue what you are talking about. Ad hominem does not qualify as a fallacy in that case. Dimwit.

>>3290093
literally an ad hominem

refute my points, not my character
asshole

>>3290094
Your autistic character is the point here.

If you knew how to paint like that then you wouldn't need to theorycraft about why you can't paint like it. You would simply do it. It's funny you haven't realized that while you act like you know better.

>>3290072
Yes, you're right. I don't know what I'm doing. If I did I'd be making my own illustrations, not copying. But I did find out some things.

My initial impression was that the colors appear too strong, so I didn't lay them down as strong as they should be, but with some lighter values next to them and different hues, it's fine. So if you're doing the same thing as I am, just trust the color picker.


Post an example of your better drawing also completed in ten minutes so I can see how it should be done.

Values are color picked directly from the source, but my application laid them down too light.

>>3290024
Gave it a try, too.

>>3290314
>Yes, you're right. I don't know what I'm doing. But I did find out some things.

Your approach and result is terrible and despite that you still seem to think you know better so I wouldn't put too much faith into that. But whatever.

>So if you're doing the same thing as I am, just trust the color picker.

I'm not doing the same thing as you and I don't think you should be giving art advice to anyone. I already gave you an advice on how to proceed and you still keep going on with your color picker while constantly making excuses for while your result looks like crap.


>Post an example of your better drawing also completed in ten minutes so I can see how it should be done.

Why? I doubt you would learn anything from that and I sure as hell don't want to waste my time on it. So is this then some sort of proof for you that your color picker crap is a good approach? Then by all means carry on.

>>3290411
That's much closer than my attempt. Faith in /ic/ restored. Nice! What was your process? Same as mine?

>>3290424

It's pretty obvious you don't draw, because all you've done to now is talk shit because I'm not an ishikei-level artist on my first try and not post something to back up your claims.

All you've told me is to go and do flesh balls and trace, learn to draw better and learn values.

Why I can't do my color picker crap alongside doing those, I don't know. The other anon who actually posted work got a pretty good result out of it.

>>3290099
>let's have a mindless discussion about the character traits of some random person, instead of using that time to study

you both are faggots, can't let go of each other like some dumb kids

>>3290437
>wasting time replying
>calling others faggots for doing the same

I'm going to hold you to your own stand but not me so that means you are the faggot here.

>>3290437
Poster of the color picker crap here:

I'm not the guy arguing with the anon you replied to. I dunno who those are. I suspect one of them is the guy shitting on me.

To now I've done my shit attempt, which did what I wanted it to do albeit it does look like shit, and another anon has done a closer, more literal study. They're obviously better than me.

It'd be pretty cool if more people posted work instead of talking smack. I'm just shitposting here during breaks myself.

>>3290435
Traced the lineart, pretty standard animu inks. Colorpicked the tones and compared with what I would have used on my own, and they were essentially the same standard stuff. Guy shows form with relatively little contrast and has these really subtle value shifts and uses of hard and soft edge (and lots of watercolor). Nothing is overly smooth either, it's a top notch blend of appealing animu and realistic anatomy.

>>3290435
Anon, you got shit for brains and this stuff belongs in the beginner thread. Learn to draw better and learn about values first. And stop using the color picker, it's not going to make it look less flat.

Also stop being such a whiny know-it-all bitch.

>>3290459
I suspected you traced it. I thought about tracing it to focus just on the rendering, but I thought I might as well do quick lines myself for the extra practice.

I haven't painted a lot in color, so the colors surprised me a bit. I always under-saturate my flesh tones because I can't see the right color yet, so that's why I opted to color pick and copy and not just do ten more flesh balls. Even then I didn't push the values enough.

I noticed the edge shifts. Only thing I can think of is distance from the surface of the shadow to the object casting it, but I'm not so sure that's the only part. Maybe there's some rule of cool going on. What do you think?

>>3290469
>distance from the surface of the shadow to the object casting it
This mostly, the rule of cool (or appeal in this case) kind of fits inside that rule. Less appealing things can always be left more subtle and loose.

>>3290466
This is a thread about drawing like Ishikei, I didn't know there's a skill level requirement.

I didn't post to impress you. I just thought it would inspire someone else. It did. I fail to see the issue. While I'm doing all this, I'm also learning to draw better and learning values. I really don't understand why you have your panties in such a bunch over this. I'm sorry if I insulted your amazing taste and masterful artwork by daring to post my crap in the same board as you.

And you call me a whiny know-it-all bitch.


You still haven't posted any work by the way. Even a sketch.

>>3290474
I noticed that on the body, there's some (to me) seemingly random color and value shifts. On the left forearm for example. If I look at them as planes, it doesn't make sense.

I don't know if it's just rule of cool, bounced light, some anatomical things I don't pick up on or what. What do you think?

>>3290477
Have all your typing convinced yourself that you know what you are doing yet?

You are the one who desperately needs to try and impress with all your theories and excuses while requesting that others post images that can be judged by you.

>>3290482
Probably from the arm and the chest being pressed together, plus the fatter part of the forearm just after the elbow acting a bit like an oval and making a shadow.

>>3290486
>Yes, you're right. I don't know what I'm doing.

The reason people ask for work is because on the internet, you can talk a load of shit, appear as an expert, but not demonstrate your ability because that would expose you. I'm being honest about my skill level: you're not.

Your advice's not bad, don't get me wrong. You just sound like a troll who doesn't draw.

>>3290490
I can kind of see it, but I would never do it like Ishikei does it. I guess it's time to go study more from life.

Thanks for posting your version.

>>3290491
There's cognitive dissonance between how you act like you know better while at the same time obviously don't know what you are doing.

Nobody need to post their work just because they point that out. Nobody need to post their work because they suggest you get better at drawing and learn values first.

You got some serious mental issues.

>>3290499
My dude, it seems you're projecting.

>>3290506
Says the guy writing an essay of excuses and know-it-all as a first response to the above.

>>3290499
Anon, at least I'm posting work. I'm still waiting to see yours so I know who I'm dealing with. You know who you're dealing with. According to your expertise, a shit artist and a mental person. At least you know!

I think you need to post work whenever you give any advice, especially when it's directed towards beginners. Would you learn from a teacher who never does demonstrations because "he doesn't need to"?

>>3290509
>You know who you're dealing with.

Why would you need to know who you are dealing with when the truth in the two remarks above is self-evident? You are obviously the one who think you are better than everyone else in here with how you need to quality judge everyone before you think their opinion is worthy of your consideration.

>>3290517
So you are okay with taking advice from random people who you have no idea whatsoever as to how skilled they are or if they can even demonstrate what they're talking about?

Shit, I guess I do have mental issues for not listening to random trolls.

>>3290520
>So you are okay with taking advice from random people

If what I was doing wasn't working and somebody came along and pointed out something obvious then of course I would look into it. You would have to have some serious insecurity/ego issues if you would not even do that much (Like branding them trolls and starting arguments about how they might be wrong and how you probably know better).

>>3290526
Wasn't working? Do you expect ANYONE to be able to replicate Ishikei's style and rendering quality on their first try of rendering colorized animeshit of this complexity?

>>3290530
>Do you expect ANYONE to be able to replicate Ishikei's style and rendering quality on their first try of rendering

I wouldn't even expect that of someone who I expected would learn it at a normal pace. But I'm not sure how you relate that to your crying about an advice though.

>>3290535
Jesus anon, your advice was good. Everyone should learn to draw better and learn values. Do you ever even stop drawing better and learning values?

Well I had fun. I had a good laugh at least. I've been drawing all this time while you were furiously hammering at your keyboard trying to prove how much I'm crying or whatever.

Thanks for informing me about my mental issues, I'll make sure to see a shrink soon. Gotta remember to render a hundred more flesh balls, too.

>>3290520
>Advice from random people

Absolutely not, spot on! We can't pollute our learning with advice from strangers.

1) Tripcode is a must.
We need some confirmation about who is participating in the conversation.

2) All posted work must include some proof that it is made specifically for this thread. It's easy to just take random art and trick image searches with fast changes so they should at least do that much if they think they are good enough to give us advice.


I posted my work so you know I'm good.

>>3290546
Every single good anon has a consistent body of work that they can use to back up everything they say because they're always working on something new. Literally the only people complaining about posting work are /beg/s who don't draw.

>>3290546
hay this is a really cool illustration!
although it is sort of bad also.

>>3290555
>Every single good anon has a consistent body of work that they can use to back up everything they say because they're always working on something new.

Do you have a drawing to back up that statement or are you just not good meaning I can disregard you?

>>3290559
Because talking about /ic/'s anons and giving art advice is the same thing and needs the same credentials. I like how you turned the point around and used it so cleverly.

>>3290561
How is applying equal standards the same as turning things around?

>>3290561
just take any and all advice with a grain of salt and use your brain to figure out what is bullshit and what works for you.

>>3290564
hurr I'm gonna start asking questions because my argument is flawed

>>3290568
what argument?

I did one more, because it's fun. I hope anon doesn't have a stroke.

I took the advice and made a soft brush. I painted rough values on, then duplicated and smoothed the values out. I haven't worked much on the upper half, so as you see it's pretty trash. I don't know if this is the right way to do it, but I've seen better artists do something similar.

Ignoring the legitimately bad drawing this time around, I think the painting is slightly improved from the Kagami one. You be the judge.

>>3291256
I think you need to use a really big soft brush (more like an airbrush) and define the rounding planes with a single stroke, versus the many strokes you're doing (like on her legs). He also seems to use the lasso tool to define sharp edges for planes, like the hipbones.

>>3291256
Forgot to mention, but yeah, you're looking a lot closer to replicating his painting style, but you've still got a lot of streakiness as a result of using a smaller brush/many strokes instead of one.

>>3291256
>>3290024
A different anon here. God fucking damn it, just fucking measure shit. Fuck. Fuck off with your "I don't care about the drawing" bullshit excuses. If you can't even place your marks correctly you have no business worrying about value, color, or trying to emulate anything. The way the form is painted depends on the form itself, and you don't understand that. You can't even get the silhouette right! Draw it and make a simple 3 tone rendering. If you can't even do that you're wasting your time with this shit that is clearly fucked just from looking at the thumbnail.

>>3291460
You ARE right, but there's a difference between copying literally or leaving some stuff that you have to make up yourself. The reasoning apart from saving time was that I have to do more of my own drawing and rendering if I can't directly look and copy.

But yeah, you are right, and in hindsight it'd have been a stronger exercise if I took a bit more time to measure. Might as well do a completely original picture if I'm doing it that way. I might.

>>3291379

Yep. I made my own custom "soft brush" for this, which also smudges the colors together slightly. Ishikei seems to be using a really, really soft brush, even softer than what I made.

>>3287700
No, I don't know that. That's why I asked him to post his work.

This thread was good for a laugh, thanks /ic/ always good to cheer me up.

>>3291792
As long as you treat /ic/ with an absolute state of cynicism you'll make it; remember that over 3/4 of posters here have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, 1/8 of the 25% ironically shitpost to mislead you into learning bad habits and attempt to deliberately cripple you and the remainder just plain shitpost.

>>3286431
ishikei is best at drawing phaluses. super veiny. post some.

>>3291833
That, or just leave forever.

>>3291256
I'm seeing progress on /ic/? Wow
Keep working on one thing at a time. It's correct.