/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3285747
Listen buddy, if you dont like to grind, do something else. You dont need drawing skills to be a post modernist or graphic designer

If you listen to music/podcasts/youtube while drawing, stop it. You need to consciously think about what you're doing.

Also
>decent enough to open patreon and make some money etc.

Has almost nothing to do with how good you are. Like most well established businesses, you need to learn how to sell your shit, make followers, etc. Maybe if you launched back in 2014, but now there's thousands of people technically better than you in every aspect, so you gotta pull off those brownie points.

If you listen to music/podcasts/youtube while drawing, stop it. You need to consciously think about what you're doing.

Also
>decent enough to open patreon and make some money etc.

Has almost nothing to do with how good you are. Like most well established businesses, you need to learn how to sell your shit, make followers, etc. Maybe if you launched back in 2014, but now there's thousands of people technically better than you in every aspect, so you gotta pull off those brownie points.

>>3285747
Dave Rapoza got to a very high level in a few years.
If you work 6+ focused hrs a day every day there's no way you don't get good in a year. Anons here will try disproving that by saying they tried it and that it didn't work for them but the truth is that they don't work every day, will spend time distracted or do 2hrs instead,..
Consistent work with clear guidelines will net you more results than you can imagine but it requires discipline, organisation and an obsessive desire to learn from your mistakes.

>>3285797
Thinking about dropping uni to try this.

>>3285747
1. Post art so we can actually comment your progress instead of that smug anime trap, which adds nothing to the conversation.

2. In one year (six months, if Feng Zhu is correct) you can learn your fundies. That doesn't mean getting good, that just means refining the building blocks you can then use to draw anything you want as long as you have a reference. Then you can enjoy constant improvement by just pumping out pieces, maintaining a blog and having a patreon to fund your hobby/career.

If you are doing it for 2-3 years that can mean two things:
1. You didn't study fundies or studied them to shallowly and your pieces are reflecting that

OR more probably

2. You have no confidence and believe your art still lacks fundies and so you are kept in an infinite gyre of studies you will never come out if you don't challenge yourself with making constantly pieces.

I hope that will be useful.

I wish I had taken up 6-8 hours of practice a day years ago when I dropped out of college instead of atrophying as a pathetic NEET all these years since then and suddenly trying to start learning art NOW, my discipline is fucking shot, I can't imagine how all you hardcore fuckers manage that much time in a day

>>3285797
>>3285800
Dont. Try working harder while still in uni first, a lot of people quit things to focus more on art and then fill that time with other distractions instead.

Also remember that Dave had no choice but to get good as fast as possible, because he got caught stealing and no one would give him a job because of that. Online work was the only option. Desperation is a great motivator if you can endure the stress.

>>3285816
>my discipline is fucking shot
>can't imagine how all you hardcore fuckers manage that much time in a day
because you stopped listening to music

>>3285747
>I picked up guitar in a few months. didn't take me long at all to learn songs, play with other people, memorize things, etc.

That's because you have no points of reference and aren't in any way ambitious about it. Like, no actual guitarist is criticizing your technique, your sense of rhythm, the clarity of your chords etc. You're doing it for fun without any real comparison. To play most instruments on a professional level takes an incredible amount of time and effort, probably equal if not moreso than art.

>>3285821
that's ''mah animu style is better than your animu style'' territory

I think >>3285817 is right, don't drop out of uinversity and rather see it as an backup plan if your art dreams doesn't come true.

And did you had more fun while playing the guitar? That could be a reason why you picked the basic more easy. Another is that by music everybody knows you have to learn the basic in other to get gud, unlike drawing where it depends in wich community you start out and what kind of critic you get.

>>3285747

>I picked up guitar in a few months

So why aren't you making a patreon for your music then? Surely by your definition you are good enough.

>>3285833
op here. honestly I think I had a lot more fun playing guitar than I do drawing. I used to spend hours trying to learn songs, figuring things out by ear, and just fucking around.

I really hate drawing. I dread even cracking open a sketchbook and practicing drawing things from reference, trying to draw from imagination, etc. I'm not sure if that's because I feel like practice isn't getting me anywhere, that I just suck, and I would like it better if I WAS better, or if I just don't enjoy art.

>>3285747
>2-3 years
>only spend a week or two each year """trying"""
>waahh it's impossible

>>3285807
OP here. here's some garbage I did recently.

from imagination

>>3285876
imagination

>>3285874
>>3285876
If you don't want to draw then don't fucking draw. You like playing guitar, then play guitar.
People will naturally do better at what they want to do or feel driven to do.
Either change your mentality or get another hobby

>>3285878
imagination, with help from reference of actual character. I know the perspective of the head is off. tried to do some kind of pop figure style of this guy for a friend. not that good

>>3285879
I know but I'm just not sure if I don't like drawing because I'm bad at it, or if I legit don't enjoy it. I don't really enjoy guitar much anymore either... at least I rarely play it.

I don't even want to give up even if I don't enjoy art that much. I've put too much time into it, bought all these art instructional books, etc. I know that I like art (was always very visual) and I'd be happy if I COULD draw well.

>>3285874
>I really hate drawing.
There is your problem. You shouldn't force yourself to have an hobby that you don't like. I know how that feels like, because when I was a child my parents forced me to do ballet for two years, because I wanted to have a hobby like my siblings. I wasn't the worst in class, still it was a pain in the ass for me.

>>3285881
Just follow your favorite generic pop anime artist on <your favorite stalker platform> so you can keep looking at what you enjoy, and throw the towel in the ring with this whole learning to draw business.

>>3285881
I think you have a defeatist attitude from other experiences you had in life. The truth is, you likely suffer from depression and other issues that will keep you from improving in any field; the only way to improve from this situation is to stop making excuses or rationalising and realize why you are in your sorry state. Seek professional help if you can afford it.
I'm not joking or insulting. Take care.

>>3285940
not really. I just put so much work into this shit and I don't really get anywhere, and I don't really get why.

>>3285940
>Seek professional help
don't listen to that OP, he's shilling for shrinks and drug money. trust me, i've tried it and they do fuck all. i also have defeatist attitude, so i know how you feel.
drawing can be enjoyable if the technique is right. it may require a lot of erasing and if digital, also selecting, transforming and moving things around. find out what works best for you. the process of exploration and discovery can be enjoyable on its own.
but it doesn't sound like drawing is all you've got. far from it, you sociolize with people, can play guitar, and probably still young and can choose any career you want that doesn't have to involve art.

>>3285971
you don't have the "spark".

>>3285981
I'm 24. no degree. kinda banked hard on this drawing thing, and it's not working out at all, really. barely improving and I don't know what is wrong.

>>3285833
>>3285817
Ye but the thing is the uni course I'm on is animation and so far I've leaned next to nothing and half the time we aren't even doing handrawn stuff. The only reason for me to stay is free money and networking/connections after finishing.

>>3285994
>free money
wat

learn 3D animation then and you are guranteed a career

>>3285971
You didn't put a lot of work if you aren't improving, I've learned perspective (Scott Robertson way) in one months while still being in university studying graphic design. Granted, I had some knowledge of perspective prior to that, but the kind of perspective that Scott Robertson theaches was almost completly new to me.
Perspective it's just like following the steps to solve a math problem, you just have to follow what you are told in the book. You have no excuse for your drawings looking that bad after three years.

You need to be honest about the fact that you aren't really working hard for it. Either you spend just a lot less time each day (if it's even daily) than what you pretend, or you aren't studying properly.

>>3285981
>don't listen to that OP, he's shilling for shrinks and drug money. trust me, i've tried it and they do fuck all.
This. I've also tried it and I've felt worse after I got professional help at the moment where they wanted to take me medical pills I stopped and tried to get better witholut professional help. My friends forced me to go out with them at least once a month.
I think your demotivation is the same as mine, you don't know if this is really what you want to do and therefore you don't give 100% and as an result you think when you give up now it was wasted time and money.

>>3285999
well for me, I just get this huge feeling of dread whenever I think about going to draw. it really feels like pulling teeth. I generally don't have the desire to do it.

I study other shit and have a lot of enthusiasm for other stuff, like Japanese, political bs, etc. I LIKE anime and art and design, and I am super opinionated and picky in terms of picking out flaws and critiquing and shit, but my own art is absolute garbage, and I don't have fun doing it at all. I have been transitioning towards just barely doing it every few days now, and even then, it's only for a few minutes until I give up.

I'm really trying to make money with this shit. I don't want to switch to something else, because I've already spent like 2-3 years doing this shit, and learning something else will take another 2 years at least, 4 years for degree... and I'm already 24 and still live at home

>>3286006
Really sounds like you don't draw much at all. That feelings of dread is something that you don't have for things you do non stop everyday.

>>3286006
So I ques I was right with my assumption. Funny enough we both have similar interests.

Maybe you just need someone who motivates you and maybe draws with you (maybe someone who is as bad as you, like you claim) and improves with you. You know in other to get maybe the fun back? This friend doesn't need to live close do you, someone who you know from the internet is also fine for it.

Oh and never forget that you are your worst critic, because most of the time you set your own standards much higher than you would set them by others.

>and I'm already 24 and still live at home
Don't feel bad about it, you're a student therefore it is normal to stay at home till you have found work. My brother moved out when he was 24 and my other brother, who is 23, also still lives at home just like me.

>>3286006
>wah waah
dude, i'm 32 and still live at home
take it from me, quit art and find something else to do while it's not too late
since you're studying animation, just take 3D animation courses while you're there, it's very much in demand for the foreseeable future. and you still get to draw keyframes.

>>3286006
> I just get this huge feeling of dread whenever I think about going to draw.
>I study other shit and have a lot of enthusiasm for other stuff
i think there are some hint in here op.maybe you just hate art
>I'm really trying to make money with this shit. I don't want to switch to something else, because I've already spent like 2-3 years doing this shit
i will brutally honest OP your progress is abysmal,you should unironically give up or 10x your current effort and maybe you will be a pro in 2-3 years from now

>>3285996
>Wat
Student loan. we don't pay them until we earn 22000. Theu take a small amount from our wages.

I don't really care about 3D animation.

>>3286050
So no compromises? You only want to draw and draw what you like?
Ok, i get it. OP is a child. Instead of learning art you should learn to grow up.

>>3286053
lol, actual OP here. I actually have an interest in 3D/game design. went through a few blender tutorials a little while ago.

my plan was to get good at drawing (mainly in an anime/manga style) and do commissions/sell prints, patreon, etc. probably porn/ecchi shit. also had the desire to make dumb YouTube cartoons/do animation, but I figured I'd learn to draw still images first

I feel like I wouldn't hate drawing so much if I actually saw progress. but as of now, it's like I put in so much work for very little to no reward. like working for a few pennies every few months. if I actually progressed faster/fairly predictably, I'd be able to get through any dread or whatever that I had, because I'd be happy with actual results and gains.

>>3286066
how many hours per day OP?

>>3285747
>I have all these drawing books and I do the gesture and shit but I'm still garbage.

Notice how artists who made it state in interviews they very rarely do studies or none at all.

>>3286068
I used to study a lot of art books and reread shit over and over, pace around the room and try to remember it all. would spend time trying to visualize 3d shapes in my head, visualizing the figure, etc. would do gesture, whatever... I'd spend a few hours a day doing this shit. maybe 3-4 or more.

then it went down a bit and I started incorporating breaks, cause I would see flashing lights randomly and those can be caused by stress. honestly, a lot of the time was spent on reading the books, and less on drawing.

started to dwindle down my time drawing. wasn't seeing much progress, even when I was working harder. maybe around an hour or two, for like 3-4 days of the week.

now, I barely draw anymore. stopped putting so much effort into it. I've drawn maybe like a grand total of an hour or two for the past two weeks, maybe more. just so sick of putting so much effort into something that just doesn't get any better... like trying to yell at a rock to move on it's own.

>>3286082
yeah, I think about this. but then I think about how I have no ideas. the only ideas I have are to draw sexy big titty anime women. but I draw them, and they look like asperger 12 year old drawings.

>>3286087
How many times have you tried drawing these woman, anon? Have you try drawing a specific character in different poses at least 100 times? Another thing to notice is how those who make it, when showing off sketch books, it's filled to the brim of cringe and nothing but the same aspect over and over and over and over and over again. Even pros draw cringe.

You need to become obsessed, not draw something 4 times and call it quits.

>>3286091
Post example. I believe you, but i'm genuinely interested in seeing cringe from a pro (don't they usually hide it?)

>>3286082
How do you learn if you don't do studies?

>>3286096
>I believe you, but i'm genuinely interested in seeing cringe from a pro (don't they usually hide it?)
Yes, they usually hide it. It's very, very rare that they show off their cringe sketchbook as most of the time they'll only show off sketchbooks that they are proud off. You need to see this in person. You're going to draw a lot of cringe if you do animation for a living since most clients will just assume you know the style for the projcet. However, going from one style to another style takes time, and the more you do this, the easier it becomes but your first several attempts will always look like a you came from elementary school. Even Imaishi has admitted this, when jumping from project to project, he's embarrassed to show his 1st attempts cause of how bad they look and even questions himself if he lost his drawing abilities.

>How do you learn if you don't do studies?
The sticky only provides books and insight as to how to improve your shitty drawings. If you treat the sticky as a Step 1 to drawing, you fucked up, but all isn't lost. Have fun, draw cringe, draw whatever who cares. Keep drawing. Draw 100 cringe of your character, then ASK yourself the important questions;
* Why does the head look off? Could be wrong?
* Is this how you draw the torso? What could help me draw the torso better?
etc etc. When you start asking yourself these questions as you trial and error your own work, THEN those books become useful. If you study a book, you Have to apply what you've studied onto your work. If you don't, then it's 100% waste of time unless you're trying to be an Art Teacher.

Otherwise, the reality of getting good, all you need to understand is form. Seriously, this video here explains 90% of the processes of how to git gud;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFKMw8YekFY&t

Just know you have to fail a lot.

>>3286111
So
>Create first, study second
Basically the same thing tehmeh said a while ago.

>>3286118
Sounds about right.

>>3286118
Didn't know tehmeh said that. I started the reverse-/ic/ program about a month ago. 80% creative from imagination/light reference. 20% studies. So far I've made massive improvements and began enjoying art again.

I think doing studies doesn't help too much because a 5 minute figure doesn't have to look good at the end. With final stuff it does have to look good, so you have to get it right. Not technically right, but visually right. Studies done hours on end are nothing but scribbling on paper if you don't have that push to get a final product that is visually pleasing and flows correctly. Nothing forces you to learn the musculature of a leg like doing a piece with a prominent leg pose. Studies have their place, but it shouldn't be the bulk of your time.

>>3286131
>jus haf fan
This is the best advice if you one to be like those deviantards who show no improvement in 12years or even regress

>>3286118
Tehmeh is a meme. Did he ever paint a waifu?

>>3286111
>Proko vid

>>3286140
Post your work.

>>3285747
>>3285797
NGM mentality.
Instead of thinking how to put the less possible effort into your practice/training/work, think how to put the most possible effort into it.

>>3286144
>Green texting Proko Vid

NGMI

>>3286085
>I used to study a lot of art books and reread shit over and over, pace around the room and try to remember it all.
what.the.fuck.close the books and just fucking draw
>I'd spend a few hours a day doing this shit. maybe 3-4 or more.
judging from your progress you aren't even close to 400 hours total after 2-3 years.draw more,struggle more or give up

Time is nothing if you are not doing deliberate practice

>>3286148
I said 6 hrs, but it's because it sounds like a realistic goal for anyone with a job, uni,... I believe 6 hrs a day can be achieved by anyone if they sacrifice some sleep.
Besides, I do believe 6 hours of focused, intense drawing a day with clear objectives to guide you is more beneficial than 12 hours of frantic and random drawing. It's still a lot of effort and time to put into something.
I know it is best to aim for the stars and try drawing every minute of the day you're not sleeping or doing something important like some (japanese) artists who put themselves through insane hours of work, but I know for a fact it can be discouraging when you don't meet your own expectations.

>>3286174
3 hours and 30 minutes a day is more than enough as long as you're applying it to your personal work.

>>3286174
Takagi-san is too perfect, my heart can't take it

It's actually pretty simple. You're not talented, just that.

>>3286203
>not being an anime character and turning hard work into your talent

>>3286174
That's the wrong way to look at it.

Sure if you're going for a short term sprint to get as good as you can before X event, than yeah, cram in as many hours as you can.

Long term that kind of thinking isn't sustainable.
If you already have your life together than it's probably not as big of an issue, but most people struggling to make gains, struggle not because they aren't putting in enough hours, but because they aren't in control of the rest of their life.

They neglect self care to focus on art, and it comes back to bite them in the ass.
Poor sleep habits, poor diets, and almost no exercise eventually leads to being lethargic, without motivation and depressed.
Unless they're the obsessive type that can run on fumes and dreams, in which case they wouldn't need to make a post asking how to get good.

Discipline isn't about making mad sprints before you run out of energy, it's about making smart decisions to keep you in the race for as long as possible.

>>3286006
>2 years wasted
you're still at the beginner level, it's going to take you 2 years if you switched career path or stay in art. At this rate you will likely be in the same position in 2 years unless you change what you're doing. Do you understand what your fundamental flaws are op besides "I'm garbage"?

>>3286239
no, not really. I look at my art and I guess I know I have construction/structural issues, lines are scratchy, need to learn more anatomy, perspective could use work, and work on overall appeal of the art... but I don't really know what to do besides do more studies/read/watch more. but I feel like that just doesn't help.

>>3285797
I am intending to do this (bought some books so i at least have something to grasp and some sort of structured "plan") but simply can't manage 6+ hours of work a day while working a full time job 9 hrs a day + 1 hour commute.

We will see how it turns out for me, though. I used to draw for hours a day everyday as a teenager and skill rose FAST then.

>>3286268
>skill rose FAST then.
beginner gains

>>3286243
So you know where you're going wrong and you know what you need to do and you're not doing it.
Off the bat it looks like you're not using construction(besides the head), you should be building the entire body with 3d shapes, and it looks like you can't draw hands/feet at all.

focus on anatomy until you can draw the complete human figure in multiple angles and poses well.

it would also help to take 30 minutes to draw us some full body poses from multiple angles with all body features(hands, feet).

When doing studies what are you studying? are you just copying and hoping it makes you better? or are you trying to draw the thing you studied after from memory and from different angles (understanding the object)?

Most ngmi shit i have ever read

>>3286234
I'm probably biased because I have a lot of time in my average day and 6 hours doesn't seem like that much for me. I did think of long term art gains.
You're probably right.

>>3285747
watch artists and copy them. i couldn't do shit by myself on guitar until i got a teacher and watched how easy it was for them to do it. i think a lot of art is the same way, seeing the final product from a book or image is no good. you need to see someone do the work. all the fundies books in the world won't help you if you have fundamental misconceptions on how you should be doing things.

You're right, roughly a year as an adult and you should be decent enough to do that. A lot of people have too much respect for themselves and their work to charge for it when in reality there's people that will spend a large sum of money for a low quality product.

Make sure you're focused and as unbiased as you can be in judging your own work. If you treat everything as professionally as possible then it will carry over into everything else you do. Don't take shortcuts, do things right. 2-3 hours a day is manageable for most people if you're doing work or school. We'd all like to practice every day but it's not possible and sometimes you need a break to avoid burnout. Analyze how you're practicing, and if there are things you don't like then change them since they are wasting your time.

>>3286140
couldn't have said it better

>>3286147
fuck of loomis fag

>>3286274
eh, i drew throughout childhood and up into teenage years

but as a teenager i became a complete neet. i was not in school and had no job, and i had gotten pretty interested in art and gained a small following. i did make some genuine improvements.

there are things i achieved then, that i cannot do now.

>>3285800
dropping uni for this hail mary?
can you fucking not?

>>3286053
I don't mind not drawing what I like as long as its drawing what I don't want to do is something that isn't drawing plus it's not like I can't teach my self 3D animation since these classes are as good as tuts you can find on you tube.
>grow up
It's like telling someone who wants to play the piano to make a compromise and play the saxophone. It's not that I don't want touch 3D at all I just want to be decent at one thing first.

>>3286364
>not believing

>>3285994
a degree is very useful to get in any job position, so don't stop. it's also useful working overseas.

switch majors to something more fulfilling to you or something that you can find a future in, if you're that unhappy

>>3286369
What is with this degree shilling and constantly trying to keep people in school? People have done this for ages.

>>3286111
>Even Imaishi has admitted this, when jumping from project to project, he's embarrassed to show his 1st attempts cause of how bad they look and even questions himself if he lost his drawing abilities.
Got a source for that seems like it was apart of an interview.

>>3286364
It's art related and feels like it's getting in the way. what use is a degree if I'm still trash at the end of it.
>>3286369
I was under the impression degrees relating to art stuff mean nothing and that is was all about the portfolio, that's what I hear from other artist anyway.

>>3286050
>it's free money
>until I start making a wage equal to the lowest 25% of the population

Imagine getting juked this hard and being completely oblivious to it months later.

You should have spent <$1000 on Adam Phillip's FX course and AMB's animator training library, it's not as "free" as your $30,000 a year animation course but you might actually learn something, bro

>>3286391
It could be worse, you could start paying it off as soon as you finish, but they decided to be nice and have you do it once you get a job.

>>3286391
>30.000
It's £9000 but your right I would probably be better off with what you're offering, though I doubt I'd find anything like that over here. the free money part is the money they give us is to buy stuff for the course not the payment for the course it self. I was able to buy some art stuff thanks to that.

>>3286407
>You only start repaying your loan once you've graduated and you're earning more than £21,000 a year. After that, you'll pay back 9% of anything you earn over £21,000. So if you're earning £26,000 a year, you'll lose £450 in loan repayments - £37.50 each month doesn't seem that bad to me.

>>3285747

fast :

1 - Observe (laws & structure, proportions into memory)
2 - Reproduce from Reference
3 - Iterate many times from Memory (draw from memory your own vision with assimilated data)
4 - Back to Step 1

slow :

1 - Doodle from your ignorance

ive seen these comparison images of work from a year ago and now and yes ive seen people become amazing, so i believe in this because ive seen proof. just study the right things, keep going, maybe find someone who can give you advice to improve or some art server.

i asked some anime artist how they became amazing in a year (theyre also 13 and im 21 and cant draw for shit fml) and they said all they did was trying and experimenting on their own, and referencing from rl pictures

>>3286479
also

Waste of time 1 : Reproducing without grasping laws & structures
Waste of time 2 : Drawing from memory when there is no memory

>>3286493
the people who got better that quick are usually the worst at explaining their process or what actually works for them. they're very unaware of how their brain works compared to other people.

>>3286387
>I was under the impression degrees relating to art stuff mean nothing and that is was all about the portfolio, that's what I hear from other artist anyway

Yeah, for getting a job. For getting a visa to work abroad, a degree, even a shitty art one, will make life much easier for you. There's been a guy on here before who impressed the art director and was going to get the job thanks to his folio, but since he didn't have a degree, they couldn't get him a visa to go work there.

>>3286387
you silly person, you go to uni to network. you get jobs through network. how the fuck are you going to network sitting in your basement talking to a bunch of weebs all day?

>I was under the impression
you're not even sure? thousands of pounds hanging in the balance and you haven't even clarified this except anecdotally

>>3286174
> I believe 6 hrs a day can be achieved by anyone if they sacrifice some sleep.
you know manga artists are dead because they believe this? a guy who helped animate naruto excused himself and died while taking a nap and all his collegues said he died of overwork. don't fuck with sleep deprivation.

>>3285782
what a meme. listen to whatever you want if you feel it helps

I've spent 2 years fumbling in the dark, two years slowly gaining confidence. I think I'm just special ed, when it comes to art. I'm going to keep at it, but I don't think I'm going to have anything to show for it until another 2 years. At least I'll cross the finish line someday

>>3286006
>>3286020
>>3286046

if you dread drawing as a /beg/ it's not a sure sign that "you hate art" or that "art isn't for you." when you suck at it, it acts as a mirror and you feel bad about yourself, so you go do other stuff that comes easy like video games, shitposting, etc, to avoid feeling bad about yourself. it's less about art and more about your mental insecurity. working on quieting that inner voice that makes you feel like shit is a skill in and of itself

Hey OP, it's great that you've posted your work, that puts your leagues ahead of others and really shows that you're serious about improving

Don't worry about how long you've been drawing for, just look at where you are and try to do better for the future.
At your level I think you're totally capable of achieving your goals in a year, even with a job.

Two things: skills and popularity
Popularity is all that matters if you want money and skill alone doesn't determine popularity, make sure you're drawing what's actually popular, paying good attention to that will do you good, there are thousands of terrible artists out there with thousands of followers because they draw what's popular

For your skills, if you're an artist worth your salt it will absolutely crush you to go your entire life without being as skilled as you like, having a passion to get better is the key to improving your skills.
Look at your skills the same way you would maths or weightlifting,
you will make some progress by just feeling it out and doing what feels right but if you really want to improve fast and efficiently you need to do your research and build a plan of action, and most importantly: stick to that plan of action.
Look at your art and write down your weaknesses, there may be many but just pick a couple. now under that write down what you think you need to do to improve those weaknesses. now do exactly that.

I wish you luck in your journey, stay positive and work hard!

>>3285876
>>3285878
Stop doing stuff from imagination.
This is not a "look mom no hands" contest and dont let dipshits who brag about "no reference used, from imagination, hurr speedpainted this in 5 minutes" confuse you.
Take your time, look at references and do your constructions properly.
Then you'll get somewhere fast.

By getting scared from people who brag and lie about their process to impress idiots and trying to get "even faster" and use "even less reference" you'll go nowhere.

>>3285800
-t. Anon Anonson, Book of Really Stupid ideas Vol II Pg. 359

>>3286690
It works. You hear it from /ic/ all the time. Git gud in a year.

>>3286304
where the fuck do i watch people draw good art then?

all i see on the livestreams is people taking already finished sketches/lineart and just paint over them for 4 hours to refine it but that shit isn't helping me at all i need to see someone draw sketches and lineart first before i can go into painting

>>3286734

Process from beginning to end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTfJhvM8Np8

>>3286733
>You hear it from /ic/ all the time
that's how you KNOW it's bullshit

>>3286734

>>3286930

>>3286931

>>3286935

>>3286931
>Teal line guy

my nigger

>>3286939

>>3285876
Learn something about realism before drawing anime. You say you have all these drawing books, but you clearly haven't studied face anatomy at all, for example.

>>3286556

then why heck is with the all the art school hate if a degree is that useful? anyway i wouldn't network right now because i'm trash. i guess i could finish and improve after uni though i heard people are looking artist fresh off uni so i dunno how that would work either.
>>3286556
okay okay i get but i'm still confused as to why people are against art schools since it seems like an essential part of making it or a least makes it lot easier to make it.

>>3287047
Can someone please elaborate in what is obviously wrong with the face anatomy? I can't pinpoint it.

I am not OP, just in case.

>>3286033
Isn't drawing keyframes a really privileged task? Like, you shouldn't expect to draw keyframes the first year getting a job.

I know nothing about art industry.

>>3287052
>then why heck is with the all the art school hate if a degree is that useful?
Because almost no one on this board goes to art school and they want to justify their life choices. Even if you think art school is a waste of time, that is objectively what happens on ic.

>>3286479
This is something I've been trying to do.

Read a book / watch a video tutorial intently, then try to just copy what I see, then do it from memory.

I'm just not sure which step is the most important, memorization will take the most time but how much should you spend on each step? Some of the video tutorials are like 10-15hours long, and following them all the time intently requires some autistic discipline..it's hard.

Rapoza said that he'd always reproduce any one thing he didn't understand 18-times, then he'd try to do it from his memory.

>>3286624
There is no finish line. But trying to get there is a noble pursuit, especially if you're struggling.

In order to get good you at least must be a natural. You do not have what it takes. Quit.

>>3287082
take any subject u like
1 - reproduce it once from reference
2 - discard the reference and draw from ur memory (it will have errors)
3 - bring back the reference and check the errors
4 - discard the reference and try again from memory (it will have errors but less now)
5 - repeat until you can create that particular subject entirely from memory

i think 50% ref/noref as a beginner and lower ref (but never without ref) as u get better

>>3287113
learning IS painful, u have to go through

If it takes 10'000 hours to get really good at drawing how many hours of dedicated trying does it take to see if you'll never be good and should try something else?

>>3287122
You’ll know. If people never say you can draw and only patronize you you should quit. It’s not worth the embarrassment. All your hero’s did not get really good overnight. Either you got it or you don’t.

>>3287145
I mean. All you hero’s always been really good

>>3287147
if these are your personal artworks, then you don't have much of a leg to stand on saying this shit

you could stand to improve yourself

>>3286006
lol m8 you are fucking delusional. If you had spent the last 2 - 3 years sincerely studying and putting in a lot of hours every day your art would be better than it is (Unless you really lack any artisitic talent to the point of being semi retarded).

Your motivation is also screwed up you should not be banking everything on 'learning art' to then make money that just creates a stressful activity. You should enjoy doing art if you're serious about doing it for hours every day.

Are you fucking dumb???

>>3286085
lol you suck, reading books and visualising shit isn't going to make you better at drawing no matter how much you do it. Either get over yourself and sit and draw for hours every day or admit how much of a retard pussy your are and quit.

>>3285876
Yes you are doing something wrong.

>>3286949

>>3287464

>>3287047
I don't want realism, I want anime

>>3287047
yeah, I have been reading all this stuff, but I guess I've just been having trouble getting it to stick in my head.

one thing I noticed is that a lot of books don't cover facial anatomy in detail, which is annoying. they seem to mostly cover simplified structures of the head (like dividing the head into thirds, "barrel" for the mouth, etc.). just recently started watching videos that break down the actual muscles of the face and everything

>>3287586
yeah but you suck at anime, and drawing realism can help you with that. You lack a baseline understanding of human anatomy so everything you draw will just look wrong, stiff and unnatural.
Also, you're a retard.

>>3287621
Drawing realism when you want to do anime is a waste of time.

>>3285747
>I refuse to believe that you can't get pretty good in a year tops
Depends, my man. You have to remember the average person is a C grade student. They don't study particularly hard, or have that much passion/motivation/discipline, or loads of creativity. So when people say "it will take you 3+ years to be any good", they are assuming you are an average person as it is a fairly safe assumption. You don't have to be a "snowflake" to git gud in 365 days, you just have to have the intelligence, responsibility and passion to learn the lessons, problem solve the failures and put pencil to paper every single day. Most people can't do that. Alternatively, people only have one of the things it takes. Every heard some of the clowns on /ic/ claim they draw 8+ hours a day? Not doing yourself any favors just by grinding endlessly.

>>3287626
then you'll be shit forever.

good luck.

>>3287632
If being able to draw anime is shit, then that's okay.

>>3286085
>more reading than drawing
>visualizing in your head
>instead of drawing it which actually helps you understand it better than trying to wrap your head around it alone

you think you're visualizing stuff but you're only thinking you're doing it unless you've done that many times over and over till it's routine.

you fucking idiot

>>3285747
>I refuse to believe that you can't get pretty good (decent enough to open patreon and make some money etc.) in a year tops.
I mean, if you're a need who doesn't have to go to office and can practice drawing in wageslave work hours amount each day, sure.

>>3287464
Got any more of Simon's ( that pedo known as Teal Line Guy) work? I have a folder of some of his tutorial/redline stuff but I was wondering what happened to the rest of them as they seem to a bitch to find nowadays (probably because the faggot deleted them)

>>3287626
Not him, but this video might help you understand why you should learn realism first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBadnTAzQFc

>>3287714
>>3287260
>>3286169
>>3285998

OP will ignore every post that speaks the truth about him not drawing almost anything in these two years.

>>3286085
Are you serious??

>>3287640
https://youtu.be/sOxmrREriSM

There's no shortcut, you have to do the time. Keep drawing, be obsessive and repetitive. I started in middle school. I'd literally fill books with anime references cut out of magazines and I'd screenshot other peoples art online and make collages that I'd print, put in my scrapbook, and use for reference. I'd fuck off in most of my classes and draw instead of do my schoolwork from 5th grade through highschool, though by college I became really good at taking notes and doodling simultaneously so I still managed to get decent grades.

If I needed to get better at eyes I'd make an entire page of different eyes and fill a few pages of mu sketchbook with eyes that I practiced by looking at my reference sheet. Substitute eyes with any other thing you'd want to get better at drawing.

I'd say by about 11th-12th grade I was able to draw somewhat decent anime styled artwork. So...6 years or so? I was a kid though so I also wasted time doing other shit

>>3285800
You better drop out of uni for some other reason and doing this practice in your neet days like me.

>>3286571
NGMI

Studies indicate that 98% of people can't effectively multitask even though most believe they can. You're dedicating part of your overall brain activity to hearing the song, at least on a subconscious level; a part which could be dedicated to the piece you're doing. If you want optimal gains then music is detrimental.

>>3287845
kino

>>3286930
how did he record this?

>>3286930
>draws with huge lines then redraws over like five times with smaller and smaller lines
Interesting technique.

>>3287922
>tfw you're ADHD and need extra stimulus in order to even begin to focus
>tfw music is extra stimulus while also being energizing and mood-lifting
>tfw more than twice as productive listening to music than not

If listening to music is distracting to you, then that's cool. But the same solution isn't going to work for everyone. There are plenty of people who can and do benefit from music. Better to get in six hours of quality draw time with music than 1 hour without because I can't focus. Even if it's "not as good" because multitasking, six hours at 90% capacity is numerically much better than 1 hour at 100%.

>>3287955
I can't say for sure, I just grabbed these videos from twitter. But it looks like Painter to me. It can record every brush stroke as a script and replay them.

>>3287960
That's *the* technique. The commonality between all of these videos is that these artists work in passes, going from general to specific. There's always some construction and sketching involved. They're drawing from imagination, so there's an exploratory period in their process.

>>3285747

>getting good

Start with Bargues everyday for 5 hours at a time with charcoal in the morning, gouache plein air everyda-

>fast

Values and colour. Values and colour. Values and colour.

Learn to block fast, value comp and do a shitton of materials. Learn how to use Photoshop like a photographer. Copy over photos and drill 1-3 pt perspective in your brain. Learn how to photobash.

Want to work on big name projects? 3D. Zbrush, Sketchup, Modo, Keyshot. Pirate and learn.

Have some artistic integrity when you make it.

>>3287626

>>3285747
op here. started a gay fucking blog about learning to draw and my ridiculous struggle with it.

already posted some ideas i have about drawing from imagination. read if you want

http://samfortunato.com/blog/

>>3288068
>Goes on the site
>Admin access only/not public

Good job on burning the one chance people would give you, OP

>>3288086
lol welp.

fixed it now. should work