/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3264637
You don't, just tell him a few times and he'll remember when he realizes his mistakes.

find new friends

>>3264637
Why do you give a shit? It’s his art, let him do what he wants, you autist.

Besides, it’s not like muh style means plebs won’t like you art

>>3264637
>tell friend that his drawing should have the pectoralis minor muscle more prominent because the arm is being lifted
>he doesnt listen
you cant help people who dont want to be helped OP, just wait until they want help

Try to get him to tell you if he's srious about an art career. With your previous attempts to help him being shot down so hard, I like to think he's either really passionate about art but insecure about his own work or he just does it for fun. If it's the former, be absolutely blunt about it and tell him you're on the same path or to take it from someone who had exactly the same mindset once before, like me. But, if he's just doing it for fun, don't bother helping him if he won't listen to advice and critique, he'll stop drawing eventually. It it's something he'd really want to take seriously and improve while still enjoying the process, he'd be more reasonable. Just be mindful not to pester him too much so he doesn't get pissy like he sounds like he will.

>>3264641
>>3264648
>some retard recommended scott robertson how to draw to him, a beginner
>tell him that is too advanced for him and its probably not his cup of tea if he isn't into grinding or perspective
>try to recommend proper books for his level
>gets offended
I'm not going to get anywhere with him don't I?
Do I let him be spergtacus and have meltdowns when people legitimately criticase him later or do I insist now and save him from the later cringe?

>>3264651
He wants to be a cartoonist

rip him

>>3264652
what books did you recommend

>>3264652
It sounds like he's too obtuse to listen to reason or you might come off as insufferable. There needs to be a mutual understanding between the both of you, at this point for any progress to be made here. I don't know either of you personally, so I think that should be the primary focus: getting on the same page.

>tfw no friend that bullies you into studying more

>>3264657
Like animation? Key frame animator? Storyboard artist? There's a bunch of books for cartoonists, but he can't go into them with a /beg/ level of skill and not pay attention to those fundies. Try breaking the ice and asking him more about what he wants to do specifically.

The core of the issue isn't in art but it's his entire life

He has no concept of the fact that skills take studying and practice, you don't just start off good.

You need him to totally change his lifestyle so he understands this basic fact of reality

Get him into something that is so undeniably the result of hard work, like jogging or lifting. with those you start at the bottom and through consistant work you build yourself up

If he can learn to enjoy this process he will be ready to improve in his art

>>3264637
How did you become friends? How can I be your friend too?

>>3264658
I was thinking of dodson or rob husband since he is into cartooning, husband is pretty damn good for a beginner cartoonist, he is definitely not the ruler mathematic drawing kind of guy.

I'm pretty sure that if he took a glance at scott book, he already put it down.

>>3264637
how about you get off his back and let him enjoy his time

>>3264680
he wants to make his career out of this senpai
Is not that easy

>>3264682
Then I don't feel like there's a way to 'help him'. Once he faces reality and how shit his line of thinking is then he'll know what to do but for now I'd say let him suffer

>>3264668
This. There's no reason to think that improving your self is a punishment.

>>3264637

"There are none so blind as those who would not see."

Don't waste your breath on people like that. I don't.

post his work

>>3264688
nu

>>3264708
bully me into studying

>>3264732

Is this a fetish?

Reminds me of an artist I met irl
>let her parents lowkey force the head from a small animation studio to train her so she can work for them in the future
>says she is willing to learn but is not self aware on her art, she only wants to draw cartoons
>before "leaving" said studio she was told to learn realism and focus on her fundies before "breaking the rules" and polish the cartoon style she wanted
>she goes "but muh style!!!1!!1"
>tries to get with an art group but fails
>bitches about it in a designer's conference in a Q & A session
>jumps on the YT "animation" community

If he does art for fun leave him alone. If he wants to make a career out of it like that artist I know above then tell him how that kind of mindset would not progress him further as an artist. I want to post the image of some improvement meme wherein one artist barely made improvement in 5 years but I can't find it. I'd use that pic to tell him that "this would be you if you don't change your attitude".

>>3265350
What's her youtube username?

>>3264668
I genuinely used to think like that too in high school. I thought that I could draw almost anything if I actually tried just because I was able to copy some anime girls. Reality slapped me so hard in the face that now I have the opposite kind of problem, I'm so scared by the complexity of art that I spend months just deciding what to study.

But real talk, if your friend is doing it as a hobby and he likes his style I don't see what's the point ofr trying to change his mind. The only problem it's if he's trying to go pro and make a living only with his shit.

>>3264637
Don't do anything. Unsolicited advice is frowned upon. Let them do what they want, you don't need to police how they do their art.

>>3264736
N-no.
You should probably leave your friend alone, this kind of people can't be helped, they need to realize by themselves how bad they are before either starting to improve or drop the hobby entirely.

I have a better question. Series of questions, possibly.

Why do we have the urge to help others like this? I've been in the same position, but now that urge is dead and I only help those who can help themselves. I see it in a lot of threads where someone is a clueless retard who can't even use google for 5 minutes and people jump in to help.

Is it people who don't know better, is it beginners who want to flex their dick, or is it something else? I used to think the "draw a lot" pros were assholes, but fuck if giving someone enough rope to hang himself and walking away isn't the best option.

>>3267025
I personally do it as a way of giving back to the community. I came into /ic/ as a beginner, got introduced to the concept of fundamentals and studying, and now I'm miles ahead of where I used to be. I hope to give the beginners here the same support I had when I needed it the most.

>>3267030
I give back too, but I've become very selective. But then things like looking at how other artists approach something and doing it again until I got it right came naturally.

>>3267036
The way I do it is I give my input and see how they respond. If they give at least a neutral response, I continue the conversation if necessary. If I get a negative response from the poster or some indication that they actually don't want critique (which rarely happens), then I ignore them and move on.

I don't blame you for being finnicky with who you respond to, but like you kinda said the ones that value critique are the ones who will improve. Heck, even I had to ask questions in /beg/ these days because I'm not always looking for "professional" input.

>>3267040
The problem for me isn't so much someone accepting critique or not, it's not even that they're clueless and can't find the right terms or don't understand the concept. It isn't that there is more than one right answer and some people don't like that. It isn't even when someone asks for feedback on unfinished scribbles you can't give meaningful feedback on because I just ignore those.

It's that when someone asks "why?" or "how should I?", the nature of the question turns it into a discussion of philosophy, aesthetics or psychology and if you're going to do art, you have to be ready, willing and able to discuss those things. You can learn it intuitively, but fuck everyone who wants the answer but doesn't actually want to go through the work of understanding it. I'm not even talking heady shit like "how do I draw cute girls?". I'm talking fundamentals like edge control and shape language. This is from allegedly willing and serious students with eyes on a career in art.

You give them an overview, some resources and a few examples and only then they realize they don't want to take the trouble to learn it and turn into an ignorant retard. I had this happen IRL so I'm extra bitter about it. I might greentext it after I do some stuff.

>>3267025
People have this strange impulse to try and help/fix things that others are failing at. Like, if you see someone struggling with a package you just want to grab it out of their hands and open it for them. I'd say it's a sympathetic reaction but it often seems to be motivated by frustration.

I think we all have this urge to "fix" things as a species, including people.

It doesn't work.

>>3267090
>7 years ago
>friend was a sophomore art major
>talked about art shit, draw together like once a week
>critiqued each others work
>mostly did other things
>I started improving (very) slowly just fucking around when he was around, looking at a lot of art and reading about composition
>also pirated artbooks
>he improved technically but nothing ever came together
>the arguments started
I can't really call them arguments. He'd ask what I thought about some piece of classwork of his, I'd ask why he chose some line weight or color or what his thumbnail looked like (because his composition was shit), he'd get frustrated and we'd move on. Then shit got weird.

I'd show him a study because he asked, he'd ask about the technique, I'd send him a link or a pdf. I don't think he even read them. He started these conversations that led to the hard questions and would get absolutely shitter shattered no matter what I said.
>hey man I have this idea for a thing but I'm not sure how I should go about it, I'm trying to [banal art student conceptual piece] about [adjective]
>well what do you find to be [adjective]? What is the nature of [adjective] and how would you express it? Who else has worked with [adjective] that you can take very liberal inspiration from?
It was like none of this ever occurred to him and like squeezing blood from a rock. Then there was the one about fuck knows what and all the other ones and it came to a head when my drunken scribbles attempting to describe rhythm were apparently so good that I was an asshole.

I later found out that he didn't even look at much art, was failing half his classes, and cared more about identifying as an artist than the actual process or art itself. He dropped out. I took a long break from drawing.

>>3265697
It's not worth checking, anon. It's odd that she wanted to get make a career out of doing art but she doesn't make the effort to learn her fundies despite her owning so many artbooks. Not to mention that she didn't make use of the critiques she got from an animation studio she was trained in.

I want to help her improve as an artist but hearing the rumours about her made it seem that there's no hope for her to improve unless she begins to open her eyes and becomes self-aware of her own art or when someone has the balls to criticize her works to the point that she'll start actually learning her fundies. I want to be that guy to tell her that but I fear that her friends and fans would defend her.

At this point I should just ignore and move on like >>3267040

>>3264637
Say nothing. If he plans to do professional work, let reality crush him.

>>3264637
Just find another friend.

>>3267221
Hmm Nice Story..

>>3267025
For me, it's like hearing someone play an instrument poorly. It physically hurts to be in the presence of their sound and you can tell the intent of wanting to be an artist is there so you just want it to stop and make it sound good

>>3264637
Get non-retarded friends.

>>3264637
Maybe find a way to study together... but disguised it as not studying to make it less intimidating.

>let's draw portraits of each other
>I'll copy one of your drawings and you copy mine.
>hey, you really like this drawing, right? What do you think makes it so good?

Also fuck all the people saying "get a new friend", or "stop caring". Indulging your neuroticism can be dangerous.