/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3262568
This is honestly the best one. People keep it fun and not serious. The whole "crab" thing is an exaggeration, people give lots of constructive and/or positive feedback on this board. Just don't take criticism too seriously and you'll be fine.

conceptart.org is cool.

Why have I seen so many pictures of Nietzsche on /ic/ lately?

>>3262568
Early/mid conceptart.org was probably the best thing you could have ever gotten, but it's gone now. Wish I were around to lurk sijun, I'd kill to get a post from big body Craig Mullins.

Your best bet now is to find a cool group of people and have your own little thing.

>>3262568
what ever happened to art collectives?
the internet is cancer

>>3262568
no.

>>3262568
It's either you take /ic/ until you're somewhat competent at drawing or if you're already competent then you just have to join up with other artists. The best online art communities are inner circles which is why you never hear about them or can get into them if you suck.

>>3262924
Where would I find one of these? Craigslist?

>>3262926
>The best online art communities are inner circles which is why you never hear about them or can get into them if you suck.
This, although a lot of them are lame circlejerks or really flaky and quiet depending on the circles you run in. Cool art doesn't mean the people that make it are cool.

>>3262924
The internet is massive cancer. Some of it is our own fault. There's still tons of stuff that goes on in real life, we just have to get off the internet and go find it (or maybe read about it on the internet and then go to it). We still have the choice to get off. But there's also the undeniable fact that the internet has changed some things in a cancerous way that you can't ignore, whether you personally are on it or not.

I sort of wish the internet had never technologically evolved past plain HTML documents on personal web servers. I hope in the coming years more people will form a movement based on rejecting the excesses of the internet and trying to restore other modes of interaction.

How is conceptart today? Why are you saying it is shit now? Is it worth posting there?

>>3262955
i remember when I used to work in studios with other artists or go to drawing gatherings. Collectives are a relic that don't exist anymore. i am working on making one but my niche is not common. lets just say that no one here qualifies so it is a one man operation. i have to create almost all the content which is daunting because it detracts from the art. also working on putting together a polished zine with articles and art.

i miss the good old days living the archetypal boheme artist life with other artists. everything died around 2007. that was it. the internet murdered it. sjws murdered it. digital and manga artists murdered it.

when being an artist was a lifestyle with a product and it went beyong the get gud faggotry of /ic/. when artists where do or die. they lived for their art regardless of recognition.or getting paid. impromptu art shows and whatnot. that shit is dead. trying to revive it among apathetic wannabes and hacks is pointless. no consistency, no drive or desire for greatness. no work with meaning and substance...a bunch of shitty incomplete, halfbrained schmucks.

no more personalities. the underground scene is polluted with faggot artists.

i want to see original art and artists. /ic/ is a hub of unoriginality. its a circle jerk constantly edging. never coming or going anywhere.

where the fuck are the original artists? no instagram or tumblr shit. none of this hyper realism bullshit or fan art. no modern art.

where the flying fuck are the art movements. the gangs with manifestos and a mission. what the fuck is going on?

even ive become a victim of the internet. like a junkie. i remember when i worked on art full time...had no time to dick around. now im stuck on this fucking phone or laptop. maintaining websites, working on designs for personal projects that seem impossible to complete on my own. its too fucking much.

fuck will power. i need to smash this phone and laptop and get back to my tools. fuck the digital revolution. that was mankinds worst move. fuck digital art.

i wonder if anyone here is as serious as i am about this. i need to meet like minded artists. people making moves with work that has some deeper meaning. artists with strong beliefs. artists who work for self. artists who know themselves. not people that want to be artists. people who can hold a discussion for more than 5 minutes. artists who write and critique and have ideas that are larger than themselves....i dont know anymore.

fucking internet has fucked me up. too much easy access to wastig time and vices...fuck online social networking. where the fuck are the real artists...on social networks...

>>3263191
>m-muh golden age!

This is why no one wants to hang out with other artists in real life. head so far up their ass, romanticizing the struggle acting like they are God's chosen people. Take a chill pill dude. There's nothing wrong with treating art like a job, like any other.

>>3263215
Hit me up on twitter and we can do a thing. We're getting grotesquely realistic furporn in museums or bust.

fucking pandering
sucking dick just to get ahead
whether fine art
commercial art or
whatever.
who does it for the pure aesthetics?
for the rush that comes from creating work that leaves you in awe of yourself?
all these fake ass comix artists. no ideas.
they never go beyond a page or they look for a dick to suck for promotion and publication.
do any of you faggots have your own labels?
why dont you go old school?
make your own publishing. design the logo and take that shit to the printers and print a bunch of ash cans and hit the streets?
what happened to the good old days?
why dont you turn your apartments into galleries and design the promotion and distro that shit? gimp and inkscape is free.
make stickers. buttons. promotional art and shit.

if you dont make comix why not do the same with your illustrations? make catelogs. add your thoughts. writing. critiques or articles. make a label. start a movement. go to galleries and give them away go to shows. make business cards. make a simple website. invest in a legit domain name.

wheres your vision anon?

>>3263219
this is exactly why you will only goe as far as a commodity. you are not an artist.

>>3263229
Last time we got an anthology together, it got shut down due to questionable legality and difficulty shipping across state lines.

>>3263220
we wont do anything
i wont collaborate with /ic/ artists because 99.9% of the vision i have is incompatable with what is uploaded here. i am simply telling you all to move your asses with your work.

im doing my thing. and i am making my moves against major obsticles. i just love doing this.

i want to see artists making moves. whether with me or not. it would be nice.

im mainly online lurking here and insta and tumblr to see what im upagainst and to scrutinize it. and so far after scoring sites and forums all i have come across is bullshit. i have yet to be amazed but then again. i have extremely high expectations. its rare that i come across art and artists i respect. i hold myself to this standard as well.

Here is an online community that's just now starting up.

https://www.artcollectorsnyc.com/forum

Also there is a discord by nosebro, which is pretty nice. But you need to be skilled in order to get in.

>>3263219
>muh "no such thing as a golden age" fallacy
Just mindlessly repeating "muh golden age!" whenever someone complains that something has gotten worse implies that nothing ever gets worse for anyone, which is ridiculous. At least someone, somewhere, really did see shit get worse and can complain about the golden age they lost.

>>3263233
shut down? questionable legalities?
man. you need.to really learn how to do this right.
i come from a street diy scene from myc to the bay area. my approach is to polish it since most of that stuff is usually literal cut and paste style zines and ashcans.

an anthology of what?
the point is. there is a way to get things done as long as you have the vision and skill to make it happen.

i illustrate.
make abstract work.
design logos.
created a company
have a 2 personal websites and one for the company.
i am working on putting a zine together with my own writing and art along with a manifesto and message.
i designed all the logos.
everything.
i learned marketing.
my work takes time so its difficult to run all of this alone.
im currently scouting for artists in a specific field of art which makes it difficult.
mainly visual (traditional)
its a lot of stuff.
i need to find a person that does film
most people flake.
i have discussed my ideas with people in these fields and artists but their hearts are not in their work like that. they have other things to do. so its difficult.

i do all the work. man. i feel like an archetype in he wrong time in space.

its a lot. sometimes i feel like putting all aside and sticking exclusively to my main work...tough decisions to make as an artist.

i am trying to put together a solid team.

i want to talk to artists making similar moves...

>>3263255
im glad someone can understand where im coming from

deviant art does have good artists on the website
for example timshinn73 did this cool star wars painting

>>3263264
da is a cesspool.
sure it has good artists but as a "community" its a cesspool and a circle jerk.

as for the artist. then he falls right into the category of mediocre. his techmical skill is not sufficient to praise his work. his work isnt even his own. it is fan garbage. its useless. this ia the problem. you are wowed by his technical ability and disregard the blatant fact: that its shit. serves no purpose than to stroke george lucass dick. i jate fanart so...

>>3263272 thank you for the critique of my comment i will take that to heart by deleting that post

>>3263264
also that shit isnt cool.
what would be cool would be if the guy had some original art worth a shit.

this is what i mean when i say that artists today would rather suck dick to get ahead. its like those hyper real insta illustrators.

and all you do is get on your knees. unzip and...

>>3263275
id suggest reevaluating your purpose

>>3263279 i havent quite worked out my purpose yet

>>3262568
Don't think so. Honestly.

I started a discord server for people to talk to one another about art, including Modernism and Postmodernism, without the fear of people starting shit storms. But nobody has joined. Probably because it sounds boring.

>>3263583
whats the discord?
im interested in discussion and building

Art communities may not exist like before anymore, but there are groups in regular social media like instagram, facebook, tumblr, twitter, etc

>>3263625
this is a serious problem for serious artists

>>3263630
why, what do you mean

>>3263644
the shift of art communities and collectives from real life and in person interaction to digitized online interaction.

this is a propblem. you think r
crumb and the zap comix crew would have succeeded? nah. it may be an old example but that sort of collectivism needs a revival. we would begin to see more original work instead of a bunch because all /ic/ is a circlejerk or shitty wannabe artists online.

>>3263112
I remember cgsociety? and conceptart? websites, but the last time I checked was more than a decade ago.

>>3263215
>fuck will power. i need to smash this phone and laptop and get back to my tools. fuck the digital revolution. that was mankinds worst move. fuck digital art.
mah man. i do commissions sometimes, but digital media is poison for your ambitions to draw and paint. it's a venus trap and i'm the type to easily get distracted and procrastinate.

>>3263219
>not romanticizing the struggle

>>3263655
i dont do digital "art" except for what i need of logos and website content. aside from this I am a pen and ink artist. i dont paint or use other mediums, except maybe photagraphy.

i was refering to using sites like 4chan. da. wetcanvas. artistforum etc etc. and indulging in distractions and social networking which is absolute narcassistic poison.

after watching on how to market onesself as an artist its apparent the necessity of things like insta and blogs. i consider myself a fine artist. so in this field in order to become recognized by money you need to pander to it. this is true for all fields.
i dont care about all that. fame not all i wanna do is be surrounded by creativity. i never cared if i became known. i just want to produce.

>>3263663
faggots like that anon have.no.passion or love for what they do. they arent artists.
they have no principles. theyre the type to prostitute themselves and pander to sell out. theyre like cumrags for businessmen

>>3263665
i'm with you a 100%. i also do commissions where i draw the outlines by hand, the most recent one with classic drawing nibs (the difference to ballpoint pens is hunge), but i colorize in PS, simply because the workflow is easier and I don't need to mess up the originals with aquarell.
i refuse to get into the marketing crap and use social media to gather likes. I believe that it can still work differently. afterall, the quality is important. I go to art fairs and comic fairs where I present my comics and get to talk to people irl, which is the most effective, most important task anyhow.

>>3263667
>cumrags for businessmen
well said. they mob others for how they love what they do.

>>3263215

Its a lot harder to get circulated on social media with original art. People tend to copy trends to build their career and make their work more appealing to a large audience. That and creating original ideas that people like is a lot harder in general.

Try Sketchlab
Discord groups too, sometimes links will circulate on /ic/.
If you put real effort into finding a better community instead of 10 mins on a Friday I believe you will get results.

>>3263670
i suggest you make prints of your originals and color them by hand. to hell with ps. that way they both maintain tangible value and can be sold as originals. ps is bs.

im in an almost non existant niche. so i dont do fairs or conventions. last thing i went to was art week in nyc 2016 i had a vip pass and honestly, it was utter shit except for 2 artists and even their work was alright i dont remember their names. just a memory of the work that stuck with me.

had some of my work and had a few agents.and reps ask me to call them but fuck those snake bastards. you can see the dollar signs in their eyes.

>>3263674
that is called pandering or sucking dick

>>3263679
>copy, color, scan
i will try that, but i've had the impression that scanning aquarell and then printing it or sending it to print involves a lot of color correction again *sigh*

i know, man, art fairs are crowded with mediocre shit from people who can afford to pay some 400-1500$ for a table and a chair there for a single day. not every good artist can afford that, obviously.

>>3263687
no no no

make b&w prints and use the prints to color so you can preserve the original work then you have 2 originals especially if you invest in some good cardstock prints

>>3263693
nope, i got it the first time. will have to experiment which paper to use. flat copy paper usually doesn't give me good results for aquarell, but it's worth a try. i usually like to give my coloring a pencil-type look anyway, so i will try that as well. thanks for the advice, bro! i wish you good luck and keep up your good spirit.

>>3263687
i time my work. each hour is 1k usd. i am working on a piece that is currently at 30k. i know the price will be ridiculously expensive but thats my time. i have my reasons.

>>3263696
no problem.
what you can do.as well is buy the paper you normally use and print on that. thats what i used to do.

i used watercolors for coloring so i figure printing on comic board was the best option.

https://discord.gg/XpqPtV

>>3262568
Sycra forum is pretty nice, some pretty talented people there(who actually have an art related job).

plz use newgrounds
newgrounds are dying

>>3263771
It's not about technical skill or art related "jobs". it goes deeper than that. it goes to the level of life devotion to the exclusion of almost everything else. that is where the addage of suffering comes from because to make this your life will come with a price, even if you dont have an art related job. those jobs are nothing but you working for others under their creative control.

>>3263775
Newgrounds died long time ago

>>3262568
There are none now, people made the retarded decision to move toward facebook groups.
try concept art or polycount, I don't think crimson daggers or permanoobs is still around

>>3262568
facebook, not even kidding. most of the big names post their art there regularly and have very active communication between artists unlike twitter or other online art galleries

>>3262568
No because artists are generally shitty 13 year olds drawing anime and MLP porn pretending to be 60 year old grandmasters wherever you go.

talking about art community, where would one search for freelance work other than DA? deviant art is filled with fucking normies not knowing the value of what they're asking for, and dumbasses accepting their propositions. Shit, I saw someone accept a full color comic page for 20$.

>>3263855
>I saw someone accept a full color comic page for 20$.

God, that's pathetic

>>3263697
>i time my work. each hour is 1k usd

I'm a career artist. I charge $20 an hour for mine. Fyi

>>3263895
I am also a career artists and I time my work 1k/hr

>>3263899
I, too, amst a career artist and I charge 350,90$ per inch of canvas.

>>3263911
Can I see a square inch of your canvas?

>>3263701
>what you can do.as well is buy the paper you normally use and print on that. thats what i used to do.
I bought a fairly expensive printer Epson ET-14000. I heard that using the wrong paper can clog it with fibre pretty easily. :S
i need to check out if i can get "comic board" type paper locally.

>>3263878
It is, I sent a few notes to some people telling them that this has a bad effect on the art community and that they should re-evaluate their rates but they immediatly go on the defensive. what's ironic is that they start most of their posts by saying they are professionals.

upwork/freelancer and clients are always prioritizing veterans with all their shiny "achievement" and the cut they take is ridiculous. any other place?

>>3263915
this is actually one of my hyper-realist paintings. i owe this ruler and it is very useful to measure my dick. this painting is 60'' x 78'' large.

>>3263916
When I said make prints, I meant professionally. Not at home. Home printers are garbage.

>>3263919
Sucks to be you anon, sucks to be you

>>3263920
this printer is by no means garbage. look it up. i do all photo prints with this one, it is the cheapest solution to self-publishing, up to A3. a good friend of mine who is an awesome comic artist and concentrates on comics alone has the same printer and he gets excellent results.

>>3263923
right back 'atcha, friendo

>>3263917
It also depends on what kind of art you do.
Low brow art doesn't reach the level of fine art, financially.

DA is low brow art with low brow amateur artists.

the art i do just so happens to fall under fine art. so it makes it easier for me to target people with money. I also go out of my way to make the work more aesthetically pleasing to up the price. I create my own Certificates of authenticity, emboss them with my own designed signature. I stamp the work with 3 different stamps. You can use bureaucratic practices in art to make it look more regal. I also believe the time I invest in my work requires a more solidified existence.

The communities are also important. it determines which direction you flow in. A low brow group will keep you low, while a high brow group will keep you high.

Both sides are a business and this reality cannot be denied. So it depends on where you want to go, up or down.

Low brow work is more commercial and high brow work is more exclusive and caters to a more financially stable crowd.

Pick your route, and by all means, never pander. stick true to your work regardless whether its low or high brow.

>>3263929
Sure buddy.
>>3263929
Wait, is that actually your work?

>>3263925
I meant garbage in comparison to professional grade printing.

I don't print anymore. I used to use a home printer as well since i used 90grm card stock to do coloring. If it works for you, that is all that matters.

>>3263940

>>3263943
I don't get your meme.
Are you implying that you are an SJW, a Libtard, triggered or a cuck or all of them?

What does this have to do with your other ruler post?

>>3263942
the ET-14000 is an ecotank type printer that you can refill yourself by default. I need to get some better paper, but my friend has printed some really awesome, crisp pages with a rich and matte black tone. I recently started a b/w comic and this is the perfect printer for that. I know homeprinting is a pain in the ass and it takes a while, but if you only go to fairs bringing around 10 to 20 comics, it's fairly cheap to produce. i've printed a load of portfolios already and i barely brought the ink level down so far.

>>3263949
"sure kid" is a standard reply on /pol/ and /b/

>>3263950
Do you make your own ashcan comics?

>>3263953
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.
It wasn't funny, tho.

>>3263938
Commercial work is far more profitable overall. It's hard to beat volume sales. It's hard to beat selling your services for a fixed rate regardless of the product. Fine art is a fucking crap shoot financially.

>>3263954
well, no real use for an ashcan print by definition. but i do make my own prints and plan to send it to a curator i know from a comic exhibition i participiated in some eight years ago. he is the head of a comic museum by now and i want to get in touch again, so he gets a nice print once it's done.

>>3263959
>Fine art is a fucking crap shoot financially.
yes it is, and that's fine. always has been. many artists are simply scared of the time it takes to actually get some decent exposure for your work. only the ones who endure will actually make it. you can always shortcut by sucking some galerists dick, but some people like to keep their dignity.

>>3263959
>Fine art is a fucking crap shoot financially.
The system is with out a doubt a scam. The galleries and collectors are all scammers no doubt.

But if you do get private investors or collectors, assuming you go the chops to pull off work they will want, will bring in the chips if you remain consistant. It's also tougher than commercial work because, the commercial market is disposable, you are around for 15 minutes if you are not innovative but your time comes and goes, fine art leaves a longer lasting impression if you have the skill.

It also depends on your self as an artist. i consider my self a low brow artist that became high brow. I much prefer doing fine art so its really preference. I don't lose sleep over sales or not, or recognition or not. I'm practically retired so I can focus on my work full time.

With commercial work, you spend a lot of time competing with other cock suckers (no offence) but that is the reality. Who will you blow for work. It's prostitution. I'd rather make it after death than to live on my knees. Idealistic I know, but I come from that generation.

>>3263964
The fine art world is another commercial business. But it boils down to what you ended with
>but some people like to keep their dignity.
being a fine artist doesn't mean you play the fine art game. it is the type of art you make.
Like I've said several times above
whether you sell or not, are recognized or not is irrelevant, it is about living your life as an artist. that is the whole point, the experience, and if you can make some bread from it, even better.

>>3263962
The one in SF?
That comic museum?

>>3263968
this is why i find watching documentaries on the way artists have worked so inspiring. Francis Bacon has done most of his painting in this attic, with all these wet dried brushes and crusts of oil caked on top of each other like in a dripstone cave. it's exactly as you say, you do it for the process, for the occupation with a topic you want to explore, to surprise yourself in the painting, comic or whatever medium you've chosen. when i was in school, the comic stories practically wrote themselves as i go, from one panel to the next. they weren't all great and some of them pretty confusing, but the process was what i most enjoyed and my classmates were quite impressed as well. i was known as the comic dude (heavily into r. crumb tier b/w comics at the time). i enjoyed every minute of drawing comics and weird pictures back then. this is what many on /ic/ apparently miss: the joy and ease of doing it. they'd rather have a school-tier timetable and list of steps to "grind", while the pleasure of doing it is secondary.

>>3262908
Nietzsche is /Our Guy/?

>>3263969
no dude, i'm a eurofag. would love to spend some time in the states. there's a studio exchange program in SF that i want to apply for.

>>3263980
+ horse

>>3263979
>heavily into r. crumb tier b/w comics at the time
Yes!
So you watched CRUMB for sure.
I was the same way in highschool. got to meet the guy and work with his daughter.

The Crumb days, that sort of vision are gone in present day artists. I never let go of that, so it's sad to see these kids today just bend over for a dollar.

>>3263980
/our goy/
Nietzschen antisemitism is best antisemitism

>>3263981
I thought Europe was known for its art scenes and movements. Unless you live in a shitty part of Europe. I moved to Africa from America, but i have yet to meet any actual artists. I just see half baked hobbyists with no direction imitating European and American styles...which they can't.

>>3263986
the documentary? yeah, and that "american splendor" thing, also great.
you could say that the attitude and honesty of the artists has declined since Crumb. you hardly find anyone as outstanding and ruthlessly honest as he is anymore. I enjoy the works by Chris Ware, Charles Burns and Winshluss, but they are a different type altogether. Crumb was biographical in a good way, hardly anyone achieves that today in that tumblr, self-pity-type insanity.

>>3263990
>I thought Europe was known for its art scenes and movements.
there are NO art movements today whatsoever. this is thanks to global interlacing in general and the fact that localized groups either form a single artist group or don't exist at all whatsoever. the last artist group i know of in Europe were the "Junge Wilde" and the "Leipziger Schule" and that's it. It's everyone for himself now.

I'm sure you know Peter Doig and Marlene Dumas. Where in Africa are you?

>>3263988
hey hey, don't forget Wagner! and Konrad Lorenz!

>>3263994
>Crumb was biographical in a good way, hardly anyone achieves that today in that tumblr, self-pity-type insanity.

This is a fact. The Days of Zap are over, Weirdo and so on.

It's sad. I actually feel sad to see the direction artists are going in.

.> that the attitude and honesty of the artists has declined since Crumb

That is because no one has anything to say. no message, no beliefs, nothing.
They don't have that cynicism, that seething hatred. Everyone is PC. Everyone is an SJW, a feminist and a leftist. Everything is sterile and catering to some inane sensibilities.

This is EXACTLY why I started ranting here about all of this. It was based on that exact statement you made about the ending of honesty with Crumb and that is the premise for my rant and what I was talking about.

No more passion.

Im ashamed to use tumblr as my host for my website simply because of the association to those liberal sjws, and, I don't know how to use wordpress. Too complicated for me.

>>3263996
>there are NO art movements today whatsoever.
I am working on one. I am writing the manifesto, building the platform for it. Time will tell if it takes off.

>don't exist at all whatsoever
This

There is no common ground among artists. No binding belief or ideology. I believe Ideology is what makes for movement. ALL art movements were based on ideologies. After Modern Arts rejection of ideology, and promotion of rejection of it, it has been gone down hill. This is why art today is shit and everyone keeps looking to the past for inspiration. Trying to capture the essence which is impossible because those artists come from some strong and deeply rooted beliefs, as opposed to the majority of the people today who just try to copy the visual aspect. this is why their work looks watered down and weak compared to the strength behind old work: ideology and belief.

> It's everyone for himself now.

This is also true. No one wants to unite. Everyone is competing with the next, especially in art. Either for jobs or at "gitting gud". People have no message these days. If they do, it's some political bleeding heart cry about some global event. It's still basic. Installation art is basically modern contemporary art. The message is whatever, it's temporal, it dies along with everything else.

>I'm sure you know...

I don't know who they are. I'm in Egypt. Finding an art scene here is rare to impossible. What I have come across is corny.

>>3264000
people are comformist and square today. that's the bit issue. i remember this comic artist girl who is doing sleek comics, mostly in pink and light blue, about sex toys and shit. Because she likes to be as "inclusive" as any other asshole out there, the comics feature fat people, intersexual people, men with giant manboobs, fat dykes with piercings, chicks with dicks, ugly bulimic scarecrows … but she says "everybody is beautiful!". It's that comformist attitude that bugs me, even with people that go out on a limb with their shit.

there is a shitload of "i want to learn it like xy" beginners, with few of them becoming comformist artists who "have made it" in the commercial area and a fleeting and in comparison completely silent niche group of awesome underground artists, few and far between. there's mediocre to shit tattoo artists left and right, "street artists" tagging their entire neighborhood with tasteless shit and less and less young people getting interested in being creative at all, due to epidemic procrastination on smartphones, netflix, selfies and social media. and for complete lack of comparison, they don't have any clue about artistic talent and values anymore. *cough*, so that was my piece of the rant.

>>3264005
>After Modern Arts rejection of ideology, and promotion of rejection of it, it has been gone down hill.
I think that this may well be the founding stone for future movements. performance, installation and conceptual art is old and stale, been done to death a million times, rid of any innovation by now. it was this nihilistic, post-modern stance that has taken fine art as a scapegoat that has pushed all these unaesthetical art forms forward. the pinnacle of it all is "protest art", a thing not even fit for cultural archives, completely rid of any aesthetic, simply a means of yelling "go into the museum and look at our political protest jokes!" – curators are partly to blame for that, as they stage themselves as the "new artists". This was pouring oil into the fire of the common depiction of art, being elitist, self-centered and aloof.

ok, Egypt, wow that is a huge transition, form the US to Egypt! Peter Doing and Marlene Dumas are based in South Africa I think.

I do think there is idiology in art today, but it is mostly individual idiology as in complete idiosyncracy, another form of isolation.

>>3264009
thats what i want to read
makes me feel like an old man in a 30something yo body.

>>3264024
i AM 30

>>3264021
"Peter Doing" …. fuck.

>>3264000
>Everyone is PC. Everyone is an SJW, a feminist and a leftist
"SJW" sounds like a lot of crumbs peers in the 60's. Feminist and leftist sound like two words Crumb might use to describe himself. "PC" sounds like something people with moldbrain obsess over not being to avoid bettering their ignorant world view in any way. There's plenty of misanthropy and cynicism in the world these days bud don't worry. It's amazing to me you can't see that on this hellhole site.

>>3264032
>Feminist and leftist sound like two words Crumb might use to describe himself.
not the same feminism any as it was back then, same for the political left.

>>3264032
its not the same when its anonymous compared to having your identity out there.

>>3264039
I disagree. Also just gonna throw it in that Crumb liked bernie.
>>3264040
I don't see what's stopping anyone from making whatever they want

>>3264042
so you believe the 60s and 70s feminism is the same as the feminism we have now in 2018?

>>3264043
Sometimes. Feminism is an extremely broad subject. I'm not gonna spend my entire life looking at the tumblrs of 15 years olds that make me mad and then go and turn on the entire principle that men and women should be equal in the world.

>>3264042
the point is the societal shift.
no one is creating like Crumb was. no one. who here can share their vision and how their art helps in that? who has work that can pull of the message?

does anyone here have a goal with their work beyond self and making it? anyone here have a philosophy, a theory, new ideas for movement and creating original work of art. does anyone here care?

>>3264047
no one cares about what mellennials think.

>>3264051
I can understand that. Crumb the comic artist is an eternal inspiration to express actual ideas with art instead of just mindlessly drawing the same anime person and landscapes for 5 years (like I've been doing I admit)

>>3264057
I'd like to add that everyone has their own philosophy to art though. Someone said something about hero warship in this thread before. It's not like everyone has to express themselves the same exact way as crumb for it to be worthwhile.

>>3264051
actually i do have a comic going that circles around a theory i have came up with. it's a pretty based story, no fancy fantasy crap going on except for one very simple, surreal phenomenon. i'm working on that comic (it's the b/w one i mentioned that i want to send to the museum curator once it's done). the thing is, it's nowhere near done and it'll take some time. i do have that ambition and i can only hope that it comes out the way i imagine.

>>3264063
this is a fact. its not hero worship. its understanding that shift.

i dont read or look at crumbs work anymore except when i remenice. it was more of a pivitol stage of my personal artistic growth. nowadays i go by my own work, my own beliefs. since i seem to be the only Neo-Islamic artist with "wahhabi" (Saudi style) foundation, it is incompatable with crumb and 95% of my peers. there are exceptions tho. i dont believe nonmuslims should be xcluded from what im doing, but certain art should. i have it all outlined. multitasking is daunting.

>>3264074
redefining islamic art from an orthodox perspective with proof from the religion and scholarly explanation from the imposed definitions by nonmuslims.

islamic art is the next renaissance movement. based on Islamic monotheism. islam and the artistic and creative process are the one thing i believe as an artist, will bring about a new golden era of art from muslims and nonmuslims being inspired by it.

>>3264066
its like that movie forgot the name but the quote goes

>if you build it they will come

and thats what we have to do. build our empires. build ourselves as artists and go back to when art caused motion no just went with the flow.

>>3263219
Creating art is a struggle. Its not just a job.

>>3264080
How does that even work when most artists are fags? I'm all for good living but I had to throw a lot of the rhetoric out and listen to He Hisself instead of getting tips secondhand.

>>3264032
>Feminist and leftist sound like two words Crumb might use to describe himself.
crumb is that sort of hippie patriarch where women might be free and equal and all that shit but they're still glorious fuckdolls
when you're talking about feminists these days you're generally talking about the sort of person who complains about tiddies in video games, which obviously isn't crumbs style since the man is a giant pervert

>>3264090
what are you talking about? thats that modernism new age rhetoric

>>3264086
I'd like to believe in that. And that there is an alternative to jumping on the trend band wagon, sucking up to galerists and rich assholes and all that. I don't have to be rich to do what I believe in, I just need to concentrate on it, like anyone else. I'm roaming in different fields, from doing standalone charcoal drawings, trying to push my comic works to getting my band project with a friend going. i hope that one of these things will get a broad recognition, but I don't mind just trying to find out what I can do with it and how far I can go for the moment.

>>3264090
the world isnt just america and europe. besides if you talk to
>he Hisself
as you claim, what is the artistic result of the typical secularist approach?

i seriously am curious. because i know its the standard thing to do to reject religion. but i would love to see the artistic outcome. that is all im interested in.

>>3264092
the thing is he is embracing both the fuckdoll side and the feminist side of it. he adores his wife in a way she can appreciate and I'm pretty sure he is a great family man to both his wife and daughter on the women rights side. feminists of today seem to believe that you have to choose either one of the two, but can't get both at the same time.

>>3264099
>i seriously am curious. because i know its the standard thing to do to reject religion. but i would love to see the artistic outcome. that is all im interested in.
not the guy, but you care too much about religion. if it's the topic of a work, so be it. if a work is rid of any religious doctrine, you should accept that as well. don't make your judgement depend on a personal stance on religion.

>>3264097
forget ALL of that and stick to one thing. multitasking in art is done by the average artist. in order to stand out, master one thing and develop yourself around that. this is what i have seen over amd over again. those people with 100s of different styles are masking a lack of personality. all great artists are recognized for that identifying style. their fingerprint.

>>3264099
I'm shaivist, so art is manifesting your personal aesthetic vision to the best of your ability. We are shards of the Supreme and to give others your piece of it in whatever way you are capable is really all you can do. Some people like it, others hate that it isn't the way they want it, others find something you didn't for better or worse.

>>3264102
crumb is contrasted against stuffy WASP types
the modern feminist we're talking about still keeps that stuff in mind but since so much of society has diverged from that archetype they're really rebelling against societys now fairly liberal view on women, apparently because they mostly want to have something to bitch about and blame

>>3264107
here we go. this is a cop out. care too much about religion? you are too apathetic toward it thats the real issue and oblivious to its relationship with the arts. thats that new agey liberal all inclusivness.

i dont care what that anon believes in or doesnt. i want to see the results of their decisions and systems of perception captured in their art. i will judge by the art. if you didnt understand that point i dont know what to tell you.

>>3264114
i just want to see the results of your belief systems in art.

then we can have art critique

>>3264110
>all great artists are recognized for that identifying style. their fingerprint.
but that's also what bugs me about a lot of them. the "one trick pony" kind of artist career, being known for doing this one whacko thing over and over again. I enjoy making music and we've been getting astonishing reactions, despite being completely unknown. I don't want to drop that and put everything on one card.

>>3264120
oh fuck off with your religion, you holy man. do whatever you want, who gives a flying fuck.

>>3264127
its a preference. its a choice

>>3264120
so why in the fuck did you mention religion in the first place?

>>3264130
i want to see the results of your approach to life in your art not your comment you are missing the point. do you have monolithic results with that pov or not?

>>3264133
well i don't feel like it's a good choice. i typically sagway from one thing into the other, from music into fine art and back again, depending on what i want to do at the moment. i have a strong passion for music and people look up to what i do. at the same time, i will get back on fine art, alternating between the two. if one of the fields will bring success, i will embrace it, maybe drop the rest, but i don't know that yet.

>>3264134
to emphasize the point of art and its need of a foundation of belief and ideology. my personal beliefs were an example.

>>3264140
i am just interested in the result of your approach and its result. ie the art

>>3264141
i tell you what i believe. i believe religion is a personal thing and not a flan that you throw in everyones face 24/7 like a circus clown, jonesing for crass reactions.

>>3264144
i don't get what the reply has to do with anything from the previous posts related to that. this was about choosing one field alone and whether that's a good idea.

>>3264134
if you dont care about religion i want to see what you produce from what you do care about or believe. i want to see it in your art. was that point not clear? i mean i am able to go by that in visual and written representation with my work. what about you?

>>3264145
you reapond in a crass manner because thats how you are as an individual. i keep talking about art but you seem triggered when i express the foundation of my creative process and thats just weird.

why you got your panties in a bunch is beyond me.

instead of getting triggered why not just share what you produced with your vision? are you mad that i am firmly eatablished with myself and work or what?

>>3264150
no my whole premise was that art today needs an ideological foundation. only one person stated theirs the person who said they are a shiavist.

>>3264151
my art is completely rid of any esotericism, make-belief or religion. i do think and research a lot about charlatanry, homeopathy, unfounded alternative medicine, religious beliefs and science as all of these fields and how they interect interests me personally. but it's nothing i want to include in my art directly as a topic.

>>3264153
>are you mad that i am firmly eatablished with myself and work or what?
you give us nothing to believe that, i can only take your word for that. and since this is an anonymous board, all that is worthless.

>as you claim, what is the artistic result of the typical secularist approach?

i seriously am curious. because i know its the standard thing to do to reject religion. but i would love to see the artistic outcome. that is all im interested in.

this was your edgy, nagging question that i responded to originally. bringing religion in the game for no reason.

>>3264167
still missing the point. either you are slow or doing it deliberately.

i dont care if you believe me or not in my approach makes no difference. ill keep working whether you believe it or not. keep ducking i guess

>>3264173
so what's your point with the entire religious base in art? do whatever you want, base it on Cthulhu for all I care.

my art is mainly based around perception, between the figurative and abstraction, melded together with latent psychological topics.

>>3264181
that was the whole point, dunny.

i want to see the results of your beliefs in art. i want to see what your art says. be it christian. jewish. islamic. hindu. shiavist. cuthulu. fsm. whatever the point is it needs a foundation.

im sure if you reread what i wrote it would become.abundantly clear what i was talking about.

>>3264187
>be it christian. jewish. islamic. hindu. shiavist. cuthulu. fsm. whatever the point is it needs a foundation.
so it needs a religious foundation. or what? it sucks without it? is that what you are getting at?
for instance, how are the paintings by Edgar Degas or Toulouse-Lautrec religious?

>>3264191
man are you this dense?
im not going in circles with you anymore. if you dont get it that aint my problem.

>>3264196
>tries to make a vague point
>fails
>"i'm not going in circles anymore!"
i hope so

>>3264089
>you don't struggle in other jobs

>>3264198
i know this is bait but
>vague
ok.

what pushes you to create art anon? what inspires you and what do ou hope to achieve from your art?

>>3263215
Don't think about what you want to be, just be it.

>>3263258
I'm working on a zine myself. The girl that was helping got pissed at my brother so she decided she wasn't going to help me anymore because of that.

>>3263588
https://discord.gg/aKSDYU

>>3263988
>...The Jews' demeanour still reveals that their souls have never known chivalrous noble sentiments nor their bodies handsome armour... But now, since they are unavoidably going to ally themselves with the best aristocracy of Europe more and more with every year that passes, they will soon have created for themselves a goodly inheritance of spiritual and bodily demeanour: so that a century hence they will appear sufficiently noble not to make those they dominate ashamed to have them as masters. ... They themselves know best that a conquest of Europe, or any kind of act of violence, on their part is not to be thought of: but they also know that at some future time Europe may fall into their hands like a ripe fruit if they would only just extend them. To bring that about they need, in the meantime, to distinguish themselves in every domain of European distinction and to stand everywhere in the first rank: until they have reached the point at which they themselves determine what is distinguishing. Then they will be called the inventors and signposts of the nations of Europe and no longer offend their sensibilities. And whither shall this assembled abundance of grand impressions which for every Jewish family constitutes Jewish history, this abundance of passions, virtues, decisions, renunciations, struggles, victories of every kind - whither shall it stream out if not at last into great men and great works! Then, when the Jews can exhibit as their work such jewels and golden vessels as the European nations of a brief and less profound experience could not and cannot produce, when Israel will have transformed its eternal vengeance into an eternal blessing for Europe: then there will arrive that seventh day on which the ancient Jewish God may rejoice in himself, his creation and his chosen people - and let us all, all of us, rejoice with him!

>>3267542
they have so willfully preserved their identity over centuries in many lands going to all lengths even severe self deception to do so, to think they would give it up and just become europeans is failing to understand their nature

>>3267365
women.
whats the zine?

>>3268039
It's just a small collection of little comics I made. Some abstract comics, some comics based on literature/films and popular comics/comic strips. This was going to be in it.

>>3263988
Except Nietzsche was resolutely against antisemitism, going so far as to say the average German was idiotic for being such. The National Socialist Party grossly misinterpreted Nietzsche's theory of the Ubermensch. An Ubermensch was the ultimate goal for Nietzschean philosophy, they were to be someone who was able to rise above morality in a religious sense and to find both self-fulfillment as well as hold himself absolutely responsible for his actions. He was to be no longer bound by the constructs of society and instead forge his own path, free of the human condition. The Ubermensch was to have amor fati, to not turn a blind eye to the horrors of life, but also to not be destroyed by them either.

>>3264039
Robert Crumb is a radical leftist who supported every equal rights movement back in the day and continues to support them even now. He was very good friends with Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, Polish, etc. To think of him in any other way than a leftist who wants to be as inclusive as he possibly can be is to miss the point of Crumb's work entirely.

>>3264051
No one? Mother fucker, I've got comic anthologies of contemporary comics that have work very similar to Crumb's. In one particularly memorable comic a little girl is molested by her father, vomits up his cum at school, and panics because she thinks she's in trouble. I've got comics about suicide, venereal disease, serial murder, rape, etc.

People aren't creating the exact works of Crumb because Crumb is SUCH an unique artist who was directly influenced by the golden age comics and who was reacting angrily against the CCA. Hell, Crumb isn't even producing work like he was back in the day. Not for loss of talent or interest, but because the thing he was trying to achieve came to fruition. Namely the complete opening up of the comic medium to allow any artist to create any comic they want. In the days of the Comix movement artists like Alison Bechdel would have been put on trial for portraying homosexuality so openly and for not portraying homosexuals as degenerate freaks who deserve to be locked up. People like Chris Ware and Jason would never have been able to get published in anything beyond a tiny zine. Tom Gauld's work wouldn't be possible at all since they're serious comics that no child could understand.

>>3264057
Yes, Crumb is an inspiration, but he wasn't this unique fluke that changed everything. He was one of many other comix artists who were all inspired by golden age comics, were all angry at the CCA, and who all had their own unique ideas and desires. Denis Kitchen, Terry Zwigoff, Gilbert Shelton, Art Spiegleman, and Harvey Pekar to name just a few. You can look at any one of them, any one of the pre-Code cartoonists, or even earlier Geo Herriman for inspiration for the sort of "ideal" cartoonist archetype.

Cartoonists who started much more recently include Tom Gauld, Alison Bechdel, David Heatley, Jason, Chris Ware, and James Kolchaka to name a few.

>>3269112
ivan brunneti

>>3269114
what makes crumb a focal point was that he displayed the archetypal character, he was a living embodiment of his own work and that is what differentiates him from all the other artists. they do not have the eccentric presence Crumb did. This is the main difference, and as far as technical skill, Crumb is still prolific in regards that and his body of work.

>>3269112
Crumb was the archetype that all those artists you mention follow behind. That's the main difference. They're doing it now because Crumb did it first. So they aren't doing amything new, they're doing what Crumb is known to father. And that is what I mean by no one doing what Crumb did which is innovate in such a way, or be the archetype in such a way thay they become the modern day Crumb. No one is doin THAT. If you can't acknowledge that, I don't know. Maybe the closes person to get to that level was Alan Moore, these two artists are archetypes that people like you follow. You are not like them, you try to be like them.

>>3263919
kek

>got into hentai at age ~12
>wasted a decade drawing stupid porn for the internet
>got used to being on the computer basically all the time
>not even sure who I am anymore thanks to wasting so much time online
>every time I try to go luddite, I have some lizard-brain panic shit happen and feel like I'm supposed to be on the computer
>even though every time I use the computer, I'm just thinking about how much I fucking hate the thing
>how much I hate video games
>how much I hate streaming sites
>how much I hate forums and messageboards

Even right fucking now. I hate that I'm even posting this instead of just fucking off and never touching my computer again.

>>3269219
not too late, i'm on same boat too
i wasted precious decade and teenage year for drawing useless, retarded shit

but everyone can learn even old ass guy too
i just started everything new in 2016 and it's completely different

ITT: circle jerking and hot air

>>3269219
this

>>3269227
thats all of /ic/ faggot.

>>3269231
>triggered

>>3269219
you addicted, i have the same problem. i need to install site-blockers again to regulate my browsing habits. try that. wastenotime, leechblock etc

>>3269219
>I hate that I'm even posting this instead of just fucking off and never touching my computer again
then maybe it's finally time you really got away from your technology. just think of all the shit you could get done if you really never turned your computers on ever again! turn everything off for a full month, and spend all that previously wasted time drawing stuff instead. and I don't mean sitting at a desk rocking back and forth with withdrawals, wishing you could be shitposting on 4chan, or playing overwatch (or whatever), while idly filling half a sketchbook page with scribbles; I mean actually drawing and creating during those 10+ hours a day you'd usually spend fucking around online. remind yourself that you live and breathe outside of the computer. it's just a tool, anon. it's not your friend, your lover, nor a necessary piece of some grand puzzle.

and if you really wanna go nuclear: uninstall all of your games (and delete their save files too), delete all the time devouring apps you've probably downloaded on your phone; don't give yourself the option of technological temptation. don't answer texts, but call people instead. hell, ask people to meet in person if it's at all possible. get away from the computer and focus on your life and your work, and see where you and your work end up in a month.

then after three months, then after a year

you can do it anon, it's not too late to change. you can save yourself from this bullshit, I promise.

>>3269104
As with all of his positions, Nietzsche's views on Jews were very complex. It's true that his books and letters contain many insults aimed towards "antisemites", but this is less of a "poor Jews please leave them alone" thing and more of the fact that anyone who viciously hates their enemy is saying more about their own weakness and ugliness than anything else. He sort of believed the alt right narrative about the Jews slowly subverting and dominating the West, but he also didn't think this was really a bad thing, because the Jews have invented a lot of cool stuff and Europeans deserve to have their asses kicked around a bit for being such pussies.

Read essay 1 of Genealogy of Morality and also every passage that mentions Jews in Daybreak and The Gay Science.

ITT: people thinking their lives would have been better if they were born a century earlier

>>3269256
maybe not lives but the art. hell yea, or atleast there is a higher probability of it being better than what you see here

>>3269236
golden advice

>>3269236
I hope our society starts to recognize internet addiction as more of a problem in the coming years. It's already started to some degree.

I had enough irl friends in college that I didn't spend an overwhelming amount of time on the internet, although in retrospect, I still could have accomplished much more without it. Post-college, now that I have more control over my schedule, it's really hit me how hard I'm addicted. I've tried to quit many times in the past 3 years or so and it's never worked.

Part of the problem is that with alcohol or hard drugs, you at least rationally know that removing this thing from your life would only make it better, even if you find it very hard to contain your urges. With the internet, you don't even have that benefit, because completely abstaining would make my life worse. Not only would it make many things very inconvenient, but the internet has taught me so many things and allowed me to discover so much, it made me the person who I am. So it's very hard to find a proper balance.

>>3269232
sure

>>3269272
what makes the internet the worst drug addiction is that it has been interwoven into every facet of human life. So it becomes inescapable. This is the proverbial matrix. If you disconnect, you'll be living like a nomad in society, I have also tried to quit numerous times. Have destroyed countless smart phones and computers in an attempt to remove this addiction to no avail. it is seemingly impossible. there will always be something dragging us back to this, one way or another. What would help is an EMP. Net Neutrality and government corporate control of the internet would also help. i advocate a total shut down or at least a iron fisted reformation and strict regulation.

>>3269272
i spend about five hours a day on the computer.
i'm going to turn it off now and will go outside and draw.
hope you guys will do the same. fighting petty little threadwars on here does nothing for us.

>>3269281
but it's becoming even more widespread. smart devices will be another giant step in this direction. you will use your smartphone to literally remote-control your home, turn your heating on before you come home, order milk if the fridge says it's run out of it, heat the water, close the blinds, all on your smartphone or via your car. cars have also turned into computers.

>>3262568
Nigga, join the SYCRA FORUMS.

>>3269236
Ok, i'm seriously considering do this
Because my sleep schedule have been fucked up

good bye, for weeks everyone in this board can't read my newer post any more while '1week'

i personally have nothing to lose if he government went 100% fascist with the internet. i dont create porno art or anything. even then, if i was restricted from uploading and talking about art, i wouldnt care. i would continue making art regardless. the number 1 use of the web is porn and the porn industry is heavily funded and run by jews, to chime in on the nietzche posts.

after that is the social networking of billions of nobodies posting selfies and shit no one really gives a flying fuck about. those people are basic bitches.

the other part ar criminals. plain amd simple. these people care the most about anonimity. fuck them. ridding the world of internet wont end crime, but it sure as hell would solve a lot more issues.

i hope the illuminati pulls the switch world wide on the web and shuts it all down, nwo style.

>>3269186
What are you saying?

>>3269189
Zwigoff, Spiegleman, and Pekar were all brutally honest about themselves in their work as well. Zwigoff once wrote about how he had to shit really bad and ended up shitting in an alley, Spiegleman wrote about his struggles with depression and his attempted suicide before writing Maus, and Pekar turned mundane life into the the great human drama. Crumb was unique in his style, but so were Spiegleman and Zwigoff, and you could never mistake a Pekar story for anything else. Crumb is just a prominent member of a group, all with the same sort of intention and the same motivations.

>>3269191
But Crumb didn't do it first. Crumb has influences and even predecessors. Tijuana Bibles for instance existed prior to Robert Crumb's earliest work. And the thing is, there are people writing today about things that would never have crossed Crumb's mind to write about. Alison Bechdel's biography of her closeted homosexual father, Jason's melancholic comics about the loss of innocence, Chis Ware's comics about losers in the system, Tom Gauld's reimagining of the story of Goliath, Kolchaka's utterly free form stream of consciousness comic journals, etc. Crumb didn't do these things, but the Comix movement, which Crumb was a major player in, started to open up the medium to allow these kinds of works to happen. Also, fuck Alan Moore. If I wanted to read garbage I'd read Archie Comics.

>>3269248
But he didn't, he wrote that he strongly believed that Jews had no intention of subverting any form of culture and instead were trying to assimilate as best they could while holding onto their own identities as individuals.

>>3269287
i know. even now, the irony of discussing this on the web is a sign of something gone wrong.

>>3269302
>Jews had no intention of subverting any form of culture
Where did he write that? Show me the exact source. >>3267542 is a direct quote from Daybreak (just search for the PDF and ctrl-f any phrase here), he says it right there that Jews need to "determine what is distinguishing" so that "Europe may fall into their hands like a ripe fruit". Also the entire first essay of Genealogy of Morality is about how Jews invented Christian morality as a weapon to subjugate their enemies.

Granted, Nietzsche never wrote a single sentence without writing its contradiction somewhere else, so you may be right that such a passage exists.

>>3269307
Beyond Good and Evil Aphorism #251:

That the Jews, if they wanted to - or if people were to force them, as the anti-Semites seem to want to do - could even now become predominant, in fact, quite literally gain mastery over Europe, is certain; that they are not working and planning for that is equally certain. Meanwhile by contrast they desire and wish - even with a certain insistence - to be absorbed into and assimilated by Europe. They thirst to be finally established somewhere or other, allowed, respected, and to bring to an end their nomadic life, to the "Wandering Jew."

>>3269296
>removing Internet from the world would solve a lot of issues
In what world are you living
The Internet has flaws and can be addictive but there's a reason everyone is connected to it in some way

>>3269307
You also have to remember that after his death his sister, who was a staunch anti-Semite heavily edited his works, adding in passages and changing other passages outright to fit her own ideology, which contradicted Nietzsche's. It was because of her that German Militarism and National Socialism became associated with his work, Nietzsche was not militaristic nor anti-Semitic, and his works, if left alone, would have been banned in Nazi Germany.

>>3269315
Well. I guess you were right and I was wrong.

Hmm. How to reconcile all these passages? Here's the beginning of the passage of Daybreak that I omitted in the other post:

205
>Among the spectacles to which the coming century invites us is the decision as to the destiny of the Jews of Europe. That their die is cast, that they have crossed their Rubicon, is now palpably obvious: all that is left for them is either to become the masters of Europe or to lose Europe as they once a long time ago lost Egypt, where they had placed themselves before a similar either-or. ...

So I guess the simplest way to reconcile these passages would be to say that Nietzsche didn't think the Jews really WANTED to dominate Europe, but the "anti-Semites" were going to force their hand in some way or another.

There's too many relevant passages in GoM for me to quote just one, but I encourage you to read it if you're not familiar with it.

>>3269328
This only happened with The Will to Power, which I haven't brought up at all in this thread (and in fact I've barely read it precisely because its authenticity is questionable). There are many references to Jews in his earlier works and those were never edited.

>>3269335
I am familiar enough with his work to comfortably and confidently state that Nietzsche was not an anti-Semite, did not fear Jews, and thought that those who did and wished them harm were fools.

>>3269338
No no no, she did it to all his works. There isn't a single work of his that didn't get at least a few significant edits by his sister after his death. It is true, his last works were more heavily edited by her, but she did in fact edit all of his work to some extent.

I have to go to sleep now.

>>3269344
I agree with your basic assessment of Nietzsche and anti-Semitism. He wouldn't have supported National Socialism or the Holocaust. I'm just saying that, as with every topic, his views weren't entirely straightforward. Could someone really write GoM I-7 or I-8 today without being called an anti-Semite? I think people try to whitewash the complexities of Nietzsche's thought to make him a clean, respectable figure for the philosophical canon.

>There isn't a single work of his that didn't get at least a few significant edits by his sister after his death.
I've never heard about this. Even if edited editions were published after Nietzsche's death, surely we have access to the original editions today, yes? It seems like it would make scholarship on Nietzsche impossible otherwise, because we would have no way of knowing what he actually said. Do the texts published as part of the Cambridge Texts in the History of Philosophy contain these edits, for example? Why would they knowingly publish those?

>>3269325
it would. though regulating it would be better so that internet use is designated to areas of human life that are necessary. basically lifting it from the general masses and using it for things like military/govermental use, hospitals and schools. not for fb or da or 4chan. not even for personal websites or blogs. as far as general populace is concerned. the only thing that should be available to us is means of direct and transparent communication such as email, domestic and international calls and text and that is it. computers should be used by the general population for the sole task of design and document preperation (books and other literature) and should be heavily restricted from accessing the web. There should be clear vigilance of data exchange.

>Can someone point me to a good art community?
200 posts later
>The Jews are taking over the world and we need a fascist dictatorship to cut off access to the internet.
Never change, /ic/.

>>3269273
so salty lol

>>3269405
yes

>>3269379
whats wrong with fascist dictatorship of the interner?

nothing.

>>3263215
>its a circle jerk constantly edging. never coming or going anywhere.
poetry

>>3262568
ITT: anything but what OP asked for

Try newgrounds, /ic/, facebook groups or discord servers
Hard mode: get some motivated people and try to make a new community.

>>3269754
thanks

>>3269791
OPs concerns were addressed
and he was given suggestions and the OP prompted a rant from myself while others chimed in. the convo evolved.
fuck you.

>>3269352
The thing with Nietzsche was he would intentionally write in such a way that he seemed to contradict himself. His intent was to break down the mind of his reader so that he could rebuild it on his own terms.

There are so few "clean" philosophers that exist.

We do have editions that exist prior to the edits, we also have his original notes, letters, and etc. so we can go through and find out what has been changed or added in.

>>3269369
Yeah, all fascists think that way.

Nowadays fucking everyone has their own chatroom

>>3269914
so?

>>3269307
>Nietzsche never wrote a single sentence without writing its contradiction somewhere else
I just want to make clear that Nietzsche's value judgments are never contradictory if you properly understand their context.