/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Real life means fundamentals and animation requires art fundamentals as well as animation fundamentals.

>>3235193
Just because you can draw boxes in any perspective and turn those boxes into a human shape, and turn that box human into a real looking human, does not mean you are automatically good at anime too because you just "make the head and eyes bigger lul its just modifying".

>>3235191
Whoever wrote that shit in the pic needs to off himself

Anime teaches a style of drawing. Life teaches you how to draw everything the way it actually is. When you have fundamentals under your belt, everything you draw will be solid and informed.

Fundamentals are the cake, style is the frosting.

>>3235191

This isn't even up for debate. If you are able to, delete your stupid thread. If not then delete yourself off my glorious board.

>>3235228
it's the sticky lul

Didn't we find the person that wrote this before and it was some ngmi-tier tumblr tard?

What? Stop drawing anime? You got it buddy!
Uh oh, it's still not good you say? But I stopped drawing anime!

See how well that worked out?

IM SO FUCKING SICK OF THIS IM FED UP WITH ALL OF YOU SHITPOSTERS KILL YOURSELF OP IF YOU READ OTHER THREADS YOU'D SEE THAT OTHER MANGAKA TEACH LOOMIS IN THEIR DAMN HOW TO DRAW BOOKS DO YOU REALLY WANT (YOU)S THAT FUCKING BADLY
>>3235228
YOU STUPID FUCKING NEWFAG YOU DIDN'T EVEN READ THE STICKY WHY ARE YOU HERE YOU DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT ART DO YOU
>>3235319
POST YOUR FUCKING WORK
ALL YOU IDIOTS DO IS SIT AROUND AND JACK EACH OTHER OFF BECAUSE YOU'RE BETTER THAN TUMBLR. GUESS WHAT. EVERYONE AND THEIR MOM IS BETTER THAN TUMBLR. GET OFF THIS WEBSITE AND GO GRIND YOU MOUTHBREATHING RETARD

>>3235283
>>3235338
>reading the sticky
Unironically ngmi

The sticky was written by /beg/ trash with incurable dunning kruger for other /beg/ trash who don’t know better

>>3235338
Who are you, post your work

>>3235371
This. They were written by people who don't have any neuroplasticity left to learn art, so they compensate by pretending that fundamentals matter. lel

>>3235191
Anime uses a modified form of loomis and you don't need real life just a lot of practice

>>3235338
>getting sick of shitposters on /ic/
Somebody doesn't understand what this board is for, huh....

What do the japanese use to learn how to draw? I've never heard of loomis being used or translated over there.

>>3235385
>look guys! i intentionally promote bad behaviour that worsens the wuality of the board just for a cheap laugh

>>3235388

Almost all the books that are shilled in the artbook thread (vilppu, hampton, loomis, Jack Hamm, etc) are translated in Japanese and sold on Japanese amazon. They use OUR books to learn.

>>3235394
https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%84%E3%81%95%E3%81%97%E3%81%84%E4%BA%BA%E7%89%A9%E7%94%BB-%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B9/dp/4837301037/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=19AQKF30H36RKFYRDR0D

>>3235191

The only part of loomis I use is the face cross.

>>3235381
>>3235371
Well then what is the proper path to drawing?

I probably will never believe of this shit until I see an actual japanese person say it in japanese while showing their work.

>>3235191
It's simple as you can't draw a simplification of something IF YOU don't know how the real thing works.

Sage

>>3235420
What is this image supposed to prove? That anime and real humans both have noses and a brow ridge? LOL

>>3235420
>this is what non-artists believe

>>3235388
>>3235394
They even have translated Force Drawing for Animators and Scott Robertson's How to Draw. I've seen Japanese artists recommend Loomis numerous times.

Pose and action books are very popular there, and many animators and popular pixiv artists release their own artbooks.

>>3235420
It doesn't really have a transition, and you can get anime>real life, that's actually what I did and to be honest the more you try going for real life the more you improve at your chinese cartoons you love so much.

>>3235420
body bagged toe tagged

>>3235394
>>3235425
>a first world nation with a unique and distinctive drawing style and tradition has western art books translated to their language
>surely this means they use those exact books to learn and do not primarily use books and methods of their own
>surely they just accidentally developed a unique aesthetic while drawing loomis heads and then continued to draw loomis heads for generations while also preserving the aesthetic
>every western animu artist being completely terrible and not really fitting into the aesthetic is just an unfortunate accident, they just need to study loomis more

>>3235421
I think it's supposed to be a counter to that weeb image that claims all anime characters are actually white europeans.

>>3235427
Miranda Kerr doesn't have a nose like that, and the asian next to her is not in the same angle or even smiling wide enough for her cheeks to pop out

>>3235444
That doesn’t sound very weebish, why would they want to dilute muh Nippon culture?

>>3235444
>>3235462
People have started using the word weeb when describing someone who hates japanese culture. Don't ask me why, because I don't fucking know.

>>3235420
>>3235427
>a*stralians
>white

>>3235191
the problem is that you millenials are lazy and dumb.
there's no helping you idiots.

>>3235508
>you millenials
>Millennials (also known as Generation Y) are the demographic cohort following Generation X. There are no precise dates for when this cohort starts or ends; demographers and researchers typically use the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid-1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years.

Amateurs think anime is its own entity. It's not. It's a modification of an existing concept in reality; people.

You don't have to be able to draw like Michelangelo to begin learning to draw anime. You just have to approach learning anime the same way you approach learning to draw from life. Learn from existing examples, and practice the fundamentals that apply. Which is pretty much all of them.

Knowledge of perspective will make an anime drawing look better. Knowledge of values is important for getting a natural read. Knowledge of how light works will allow you to light your model more accurately, even if it's simpler. Learning actual anatomy will improve your shape design, which is immensely important for anime-type art.

Why is that so hard for anyone to understand? It's common sense.

>>3235381

>lel fundies dont matter

have fun never moving past your shitty deviant art tier waifu drawings.

>>3235191
You do know that typical anime style is literally just line art of realistically proportioned bodies (with often some idealized variation) with less detailed heads and exaggerated proportions?
How the fuck can you not see how realism relates to anime?

>>3235669
>Amateurs think anime is its own entity. It's not. It's a modification of an existing concept in reality; people.
Wow
Such wisdom
Much deep
Wow

>>3235721
Nobody talks about bodies when they say anime, it’s always, 100%, no exception, talking about heads.

>I’m practicing my anime style, look at this anime hand I drew
>woah, that such good anime, anon

>>3235460
What the FUCK do you think the point of that edit was? The face isn't in the same angle, no shit.
>>3235443
There are no hidden leaf village secrets. I'm following dozens of amatuer Jap rising stars and they're all using "loomis" in their studies. Sure, they have books and classes on the subject but most of them are useless as the trends change every single year.

Of course you need to study other anime artists as well, if you want to master the style.
But an understanding of the human figure makes it so much easier. That's why Loomis is imporant.

>>3235727
If you're drawing anime, you're going to be drawing bodies as well. So you need to learn real fundamentals to be able to do it well.
Sure you can probably skip through a lot of head anatomy and do okay but as stylized as they are, anime faces are still derived from real faces so there will still be a benefit from learning realism.

>>3235724
You say that, yet we continue to have threads like this one. Clearly to many idiots like OP, this is a foreign concept.

>>3235736
>calls op an idiot
>doesn't know the difference between 'to' and 'too'

>>3235191
We need to fucking ban anime from /ic/.
They need a fucking containment board for their autism seriously, Call it /aic/

>>3235735
Nigga, there are clouds in anime too, that doesn’t change the fact that “anime style” refers to heads and heads alone, not fucking feet.
Why do you think everyone brings up loomis in regards to animu?

No, not because of bodies.

Learning to draw realistic heads won’t help you draw anime any more than the other way around.
Yeah, you might place features on the form of the head better than someone who just picked up a pencil, but learning loomis to learn animu later is like learning to ride a bike so you can learn to ride a kayak.
Just going straight to animu doesn’t preclude thinking in 3D forms.

>>3235738
I don't even like anime, but if I could choose between 100 random weebs from /a/ who want to learn to draw their waifu or you, I'd pick the 100 weebs in a heartbeat. It's people like you who are by far the biggest cancer of this board.

>>3235739
>but learning loomis to learn animu later is like learning to ride a bike so you can learn to ride a kayak.

How the fuck do you get to that conclusion when you yourself just said that anime doesn't have any particular stylization for anything other than the head? I seriously don't get your logic here. 99% of the human body overlaps between regular figure drawing / Loomis and anime. The head being the only exception. So your conclusion is that learning to draw the 99% is pointless because it doesn't teach you the 1% that makes anime anime?

>>3235738
All I want to do is draw cute girls. I'm sorry that pisses you off so much.

>>3235745
Loomis is objectively shit for anything besides the head, and even the head has better construction methods, so yes, learning loomis to construct the human body is a waste of time, regardless of your goal.

>>3235741
You choose the bunch of shitty weeb anime "artists" who all draw the same ugly deviant art trash over somebody who would rather see real this board filled with real art...?
Hmmmmmm,

>>3235739
All right fine.
Don't learn to draw realistic heads.
I agree, it's impact will be minimal if you're only drawing generic 2000-20XX style anime faces
The only point I was making in my initial post is that in order to draw competent full illustrations(not just faces) in an anime style, you WILL have to know your fundamentals (at minimum perspective and anatomy) and fundamentals are derived from realism.
I didn't make the assumption that OP was only talking about anime heads because they specifically state their thought that they don't think any good artist uses Loomis EVER, and Loomis doesn't only teach a method for realistic head construction, he teaches whole figure. So I took OP's post as a sign that they think "HURRR ANIME HEADS ARENT REALISTIC SO YOU DONT NEED REALISM AT ALL FOR ANIME" like every dumbfuck deviantautist and stupid fucking NGMI that washes onto this horrid cesspool.

>>3235751
draw the cute girls then...But please actually take the time to learn the basics of how to draw cute girls first... that is very important.
We don't need more weeb trash who think their awful fucked up faces and pointy chins should be considered part of a "style".

>>3235752
There is nothing "objective" whatsoever about your contrarian dunning kruger opinions, anon. Loomis is one of the most established teachers in the world and is extremely popular both in Japan and amongst western animators and comic book artists.

>>3235739
>Just going straight to animu doesn’t preclude thinking in 3D forms

>3D forms

>for 2d anime...
ohh anon you are so fucking stupid. lol.

>>3235737
Read it again. He used "to" in the correct form.
>Clearly, to a so many idiots like the OP, this is a foreign concept.
Your trivial nitpicking falls flat, and your attempt to seem clever and make someone else feel stupid has backfired. Ouch.

>>3235762
>one of the most established teachers in the world and is extremely popular

>>3235767
inb4 you jump my shit for my incidental and ironic typo because you have no real other argument in this situation. FML.

>>3235768
Right, because clearly those 2 are on the same level of skill and competence.

>>3235757
>they specifically state their thought that they don't think any good artist uses Loomis EVER,
Technically, he said he thinks no good artist on /ic/ uses loomis, so...

>>3235771
Have you actually read Loomis’ books?
His body construction is fucking terrible.

Like, literally any of the common methods mentioned on /ic/ are better, including Vilppu’s esoteric mysticism.
Stop pushing outdated methods on beginners.

>>3235772
Every modern method of constructing human figures in perspective is derived from Bridgeman, Hogarth or Loomis, who are all extremely similar in their approach (not their style). This whole "teacher x is stoopid, I learned from y who is way better!" is incredibly embarassing and childish.

>>3235767
Get an education beyond the 2nd grade.
>Clearly to many idiots
is not correct

>>3235776
>Every modern method of constructing human figures in perspective is derived from Bridgeman, Hogarth or Loomis
No.

>hurr durr boxes didn’t exist in the renaissance

>>3235773
Name a good method or post work.
You make it sound like you really know your shit.

>>3235773
>Here's how you draw the ribcage
>Here's how you draw the pelvis
>Here's a mannequin with simplified surface anatomy
>Here's the figure in perspective

Do people no longer have ribcages or did the laws of perspective change or in what way is his method outdated and terrible?

>>3235779
Should have stopped at "hurr durr" that's literally all you were able to say with your post anyway.

>>3235780
Imo Huston has the most sensical approach, even though it might look lacklustre to some.
90% is cylindrical for the setup (gesture) and is really straightforward, though a lot of people are confused by his heads, though that’s another matter.

Since you’re dealing with cylinders , perspective and proportions are a breeze, and you’re 2 lines away from making it into a box.

There no loosely connected forms, so it’s retardproof.

>>3235781
Mannequins are a learning technique, not a fucking construction method.
When have you seen someone start a drawing it’s a mannequin?

>>3235777
>Clearly, to many people, this is a foreign concept
>To many, to a lot of, to others, to me, to you
>Clearly, too many people, this is a foreign concept
>Too many, too a lot of, too others, too me, too you

Your move.

So if I wanted to draw the fundamentals first where do I start? How do I progress? At what point am I allowed to include the poorly drawn anime into my practise? If there's so many people coming and looking for this and you want them to learn correctly just spell it out.

>>3235802
>At what point am I allowed to include the poorly drawn anime into my practise?
When you are at least at this level

>>3235802
Figure out what the fundamentals actually are. Understand what they are before you try to practice them. Google works wonders.

For example, when I practice perspective, I draw things in perspective. How do I know what correct perspective is? I read a book about it, or watched a video on Youtube that explains how perspective works. If it's difficult, uncomfortable and challenges your abilities, you're on the right track.

Once you find a method of practicing that hurts, do it until it doesn't hurt anymore. Then move on to something more advanced that hurts.

>>3235813
>drawing is like my Chinese cartoons
KYS

>>3235816
What is it like?

>>3235817
70’s musicales

>>3235799
Not so fast, Kaiba! You activated my trap card--swords of revealing LIGHT!

This card shows you how much of a faggot you are and protects me from your faggotry for 3 turns.

>>3235754
All you did was prove his point further by making another post showcasing what an asshole you are.

>Jeff talking about anime in his video
Based Jeff.

>>3235191
>>3235191
do you really need to learn how to draw realistic to draw anime?

>>3236211
which video

>>3237044
A round table discussion with him, proko and a few others titled “The prevalence of anime ambitions in hopeful new artist and why we must convince them they need to master academic realism to draw Naruto”

>>3235191
It's always a good idea to listen to different teachers and study different approaches and techniques before trying your hand at your own. Nobody is saying that loomis is the one true path to anime, but if you know loomis, you can employ his techniques into yours. If you know real life, you can employ realism in your drawings.

If you know nothing, you can just ignorantly assume.

>>3235191
Have you seen Incase? His work is high quality, stylized and loomis, all at the same time.

>>3237133
(cont.)
The point is - all those form breakdowns you see in art books (cylindrical pelvis, boxy wrist, Loomis head) are different ideas, different ways of conceiving the real form. You study them, internalize them and implement them into your process.
Some people draw the whole thing (incase), some only keep the idea of a ball with sliced sides, but both benefit from studying Loomis (insert Bridgeman/Hampton/Vilppu etc.)

>>3235738
Fuck off to literally any other site, this place is for weebs.

>>3237133

Our very own BBC is better than incase at anatomy.

>>3237044
Figure Phase 2. One of Master Studies video.
He talk about artists who "sell short" different genres because they don't like subject matter and unable to judge skill. Seems like he doesn't like psuds.

>>3235420
>transition
>anime is literally the human face..... just with its cheek 2 inches lower...... and 1/4 a toothless mouth..... and eyes with no bottom eye lids.... and hair thats a sheet of paper instead of hundreds of strands..... and a nose where it cant decide if its the left center part or the very left side of the human nose...... and eye browse that been replaced with a line...... and giant eyes..... a shovel for a chin...... and no neck muscles.....

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

>>3236211
>implying Jeff could draw japanese anime even if he tried
He would just muh style it like every other western artist

>>3235191
Loomis is a canon. Anime (as in each specific anime) is a canon.
Nobody understands "style" and how to achieve it becauseit's a fucking misnomer. Murata doesn't have a style, One Punch Man has a canon designed from Murata's natural form to draw and a selection of visual communication aids purposedly selected to make OPM carry the message Murata wants it to carry.

If you want to draw your own animus just learning to draw like Loomis will never be enough, you need to sit the fuck down and make your own homo vitruvianus constructed with the measurements and correlations you wish your animus to have. Then apply that canon to the animu's whole world.

That is how "style" is made. It's not magic, it's not mystic, it's math.

>>3237939
>you need to sit the fuck down and make your own homo vitruvianus
Bro, gross

>>3237395
from the screenshot it's actually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Fs82gX0fA

Always these fucking potato brain niggers asking the same fucking question
"Anime" is not a monolithic style, it just has a few identifiers and even those can get broken easily.
You go from real life to "anime" or whatever stylisation you want by simply omitting some details and symbolising others. This is not a hard concept to grasp and it has nothing to do with Loomis or any other construction method.

The mistake you are making is to shoot for "anime" style without knowing how to symbolise aspects of the figure to begin with.
The mistake others are making is telling you that you need realism to draw anime. You don't, you just need to draw from life (or photos) and there's a big difference. If you purposely go for realism to the best of your ability, you are not practicing creating symbols BECAUSE YOU'RE AIMING FOR REALISM INSTEAD OF SYMBOLS.

Again: It's not realism to anime, it's real life to anime. And there's no set point at which a drawing becomes "anime", it's a sliding scale of stylisation.

>>3235191
>none of you ever show the transition
Because it's natural and specific to the preference of each individual artist, you dork.

This is like complaining about drawing realistic trees and then saying nobody showed you how to draw cartoon trees.

>>3235371
Yup

FUCK the sticky.
/ic/ is recruiting an army of "porn art" masturbators, second-class manga morons and equally sorry, second-hand illustrators.

Calling this forum "Art Critique" is a fucking delusion.

>>3238246

>>3235371
>>3235381
>>3238246
post your sticky

>>3238169
>You go from real life to "anime" or whatever stylisation you want by simply omitting some details and symbolising others
You can't call others potato brain niggers while vomiting this stupidity.
Stylization is not omission of detail, it's visual communication. It is the purposeful and mathematical creation of a new canon designed to tell a specific message.

You will never stylize worth a shit if you only study fundamentals. You need to study design.

>>3238246

>>3238391
>"humans have arms and legs"
>wtf, humans don't just have arms, are you retarded, what about the legs?

It's absolutely an omission of detail in some places, see the obvious fucking example of anime noses.
I think it would be better for all of us if you just offed yourself, cunt.

>>3238391
>You need to study design.
What do you recommend?

>>3238994
>ngmi trying to drag others down with bad advice
You don't know shit. And never will.
>>3238999
A Primer of Visual Literacy. By Donis A Dondis

>>3239110
Have a link for that book? It isn't in the art book thread

>>3239110
>Donis A Dondis

lmoa