/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3220147
Downsides (especially in UK):
>intolerable PC/leftie atmosphere
>post modern and critical theory approach to art
>art university's obsession with bauhaus
>(potentially irrelevant) small student loan repayment
>soul crushing
>post modern lectures

>>3220152
Grow up.

>going into debt for an education that won’t get you a job

>>3220152

>>3220147
itd be cool to study the architecture in europe

>>3220152
all I see is:
>produce better work than everyone else
>massive ego boost
>get all the opportunities

>>3220605
>>3220612
fuck off I live in the UK and go to a university dedicated to art that guy is right 100%. What he's said is absolutely correct, unless you fall into a small clique of non-pc shitposters then be prepared to watch everything you say in fear of being 'reported' which then leads to a meeting to discuss your 'behaviour' no facing your accusers either, that's not allowed and you won't find out what you've done till the meeting itself so goodluck preparing any argument (I friend had to go through this because he joked about hitler). Also the majority of teachers there are only teaching for the salary, they're failed industry drop-outs.

Only place I know of which is close to competent is this LARA, but even then I'm just guessing from their website

>http://www.drawpaintsculpt.com/

>>3220633
they don’t let you make fun of hitler in the uk?

>>3220638
Pretty much, even if it's a private conversation you have little pc faggots listening in so they can run to the teacher. It's a fucking disgrace, plus they won't teach you fundementals unless you specifically find a course that will or you'll just end up teaching yourself.

>>3220633
i also go to uni in uk. this person's huge mouth and bad opinions are probably going to make himself unemployable shortly lol

>the majority of teachers there are only teaching for the salary, they're failed industry drop-outs.
this is the same everywhere you go. half the art classes you ever go to will just manufacture teachers. then the cycle will begin anew. the societies aren't better, the teachers are about the same. in fact, it may be better to learn where you are, since the main point of art school is building connections

>>3220616
there's probably cool shit where you live too. if you can't make the most of things where you are, then you probably won't bother to when you get somewhere else. a place will never change you for the better if those habits aren't already in you.

>>3220659
>bad opinions
>opinions
>bad

Since when did you become the absolute authority on what is bad or good? You're right about the connections purpose, but that's just a friend not myself as I'm not stupid to be politically incorrect in this enviroment, only in private.

If you believe that connections are the only way to get a job in a creative industry, you must be a shitty artist as much as you are a shitty person. If you are skilled enough at what you do and market yourself well, you can pretty much garantee that you'll be hired, university pc faggots aren't the gate keepers to the industry. But generally just keep politics out of any job which you are involved in.

>>3220659
>if you have the wrong opinions you won't be able to feed your family
Just another day in the socialist utopia

>>3220605
>>3220612
>le buzzfeed reaction gifs
the primary communication method of the bugman

Not a good look

Not sure about other countries, but here in Germany studying art is useless.

They won'T teach you any fundies and discourage drawing anything but modern bullshit art.

So if you wanna be a commercial illustrator, it'd be best to learn it by yourself and maybe take some art classes in private schools.

>>3220608
My plan is to jump ship and leave England once I've gotten all I want out of the uni, as /ic/ likes to remind us an arts diploma is basically useless

But anon, it is different in the UK. A student loan is an inconsequential thing, you don't have to repay it until you're earning over £21,000, and even then it's like a 2% tax of your monthly earnings. Plus you can fuck off to another country or go through some other loopholes and never worry about it again, and I have a good feeling that the young people with student loans are going to vote for some socialist reforms that strike off their repayments (whatever you feel about that, it's useful for most artists who aren't going to be earning triple figures anytime in the next century).

>an education that won't get you a job
So how do d/ic/ks get jobs in the art world? Through gettin gud
through salesmanship
through building up accolades
showing your work at galleries
through getting commissions
through attending conventions and networking
through applying with a good portfolio

If the European university system can give you a workspace, facilities, accommodation and access to the nearby city amenities (like galleries, museums etc) I'd say that's quite useful, but I do currently live in a tiny isolated village so I might be idealising the usefulness.

>>3220616
Sure would!

>>3220629
That's a good angle. For all their flaws I believe the average d/ic/k has a hell of a lot more drive and planning for how to make it than 90% of the enrolled "art students". I think most d/ic/ks would treat their course like a mature student treats university, a tool and resources to do their own study and growth.

>>3220633
I've heard this a lot
LARA is incredible, there's actually been a lot of traditional realism (art renewal centre style) courses opening recently in the UK, I guess there's a demand for it but most of the teachers seem like bog standard graduates of the Florence realism academies, possibly a bit of a cashgrab.

>>3220638

>>3220706
Ah, fuck Bauhaus, das ist das gleiche in England

Do you have an opinion on my suggestion?
>go to average art university
>bare minimum engagement with the sub par course
>use loans for cheap living near city/town
>use university facilities, societies, networking
>use city's museums, galleries, job opportunities etc
>travel to conventions and job opportunities with extra cash from part time jobs etc, convenient location
Is this a good way to start your career without being a basement NEET artist or a full time? I don't know about student debt in Deutchsland

>>3220147

I went to one UK uni for a year and had a very mixed impression. they invited a woman who makes money off of young artists by getting their portfolio and handing it in for prices and open calls, so you don't have to do the work. the downside being that she chops off a huge chunk of the revenue, if she succeeds. there are leeches all around in uk unis.

as for the lectures, there was a good ratio of bad and good tutors. some were completely self-obsessed and only taught their way of working, others were helpful and open for discussions.

there was a strong competitive atmosphere, like >>3220629 mentioned, but mostly from young shitforbrainers, not the more mature peers.

yes, postmodernism was a thing and also gender bullshit by female students was always a thing they applauded right away, same as portraying your life's misery and your personal struggles, which no one dares to argue against.

UK universities will throw you in debt for the rest of your life. you will only have to pay back those interest free state debts once you earn enough, but still it's a great weight on your shoulder. other unis in Europe like Poland, Hungary and Austria sometimes do not charge any fees (only for foreigners) if you manage to finish within the accepted studying time.

>>3220147

why study at a uni?
mostly for meeting peers. that is the most important and most reassuring thing you get from uni. it's a meeting point of people with very similar interests and ideally, you will inspire each other greatly and form friendships for life.
everything else comes second. what you are taught is nice and all, but it's really the communication that you will profit from. also, presenting your work regularly to other people, finding out how the art world works outside of uni, making first steps in exhibiting, making a lot of worthwhile field trips and seeing a lot of exhibitions.

>>3220147
>>3220721

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MRJIo_sQCw

Woes did quite a good insight on the whole "meeting people" aspect of art school

>>3220719
I too went to a UK university for a year, Falmouth school. It wasn't quite as scalping as you said but I recognise everything you mentioned and I'm glad I left, however Op has me thinking about the value of almost entirely disconnecting from the university's curriculum and lectures and doing your own thing, using the faculties and library etc, just satiating the attendance and coursework to pass each year. Redpill me on UK student debt? Is it really that bad? A friend i have is a graduate and he once described it as a miniscule tax that disappears once you turn 40

>>3220748
>miniscule tax that disappears once you turn 40

I'm not too well informed on the procedure. All I heard was that you have a shitload of "virtual debt" to the govt, like £5000 for one year or some shit. You only get to pay it back once you earn a certain amount of money. In art, that will hardly be the case for the majority of people studying art. But I imagine that the weight this puts on you can be quite crushing. I've had the opportunity to just study on Erasmus, so I've never had to pay student fees in that agreement.

You are completely right about using the facilities and libraries and dismissing the course schedule. That is a good way of using the opportunity. There are very nice studios you can use most of the time, you get to work carelessly with colors, no matter if you mess up the place, you can clean your brushes and not worry about the sink or solvents etc. And above all, some universities have excellent libraries. The one I attended had a really great, broad selection of expensive and rare art publications, both contemporary and art history canon.

I did just what you said, I dismissed a lot of courses that I thought were a complete waste of time. I even dismissed the course schedule in parts, which would normally get you to repeat the year, but in my case, it didn't matter as an Erasmus student. I've written a fairly well received paper, which was something I've enjoyed, although it didn't get any credit in my course at home.

Renting a studio is expensive as fuck. If you get to study and use a studio for free AND all the resources, go for it. It's a pretty good deal, even if you don't have interesting peers or courses.

>>3220147
no. I'm in an animation class and every one draws like a 5 year old.

>>3220713
As far as i know, as long as its a public school and not a private one, it should be free. The only things that you would have to pay are living expenses (a place to live, food, gas and water etc.)

>>3220746

I agree with a lot of what he says. You really see a lot of clichés, people wearing excentric shit, lot of fakes around, expecting a lot of feedback but getting not as much as youd like …
most professors are artists themselves and we all know that artists aren't the most talented, logically thinking tutors you can get.

The guys ranting is a bit of a douche himself to be honest, cool smoking in between, drinking a sip … he loves hearing himself talk.

*lights another cigarette
*drinks another sip
*looks to the side, contemplating

>lightspeaker with random weird noises, fireman and a stuffed dog
it is true, installation art is the next best shit atm. everyone is doing installation, political installation above all. this is problematic. if art is mainly about telling you about a political issue or trying to be edgy and provocative while neglecting any aesthetic sense, you aren't making art, you are producing temporary, cultural critique and symbolism. this is hardly art.

>>3220787
But do you draw like a 5 year old too? Your peers shouldn't matter, you'll never see most of them again once you graduate

>>3220783
Thanks for a good answer. I'll have to look into English student debt, one of the attractive parts is you get a fairly generous living expenses loan on top of the £9000 degree price, and the UK gvnmnt is so overstretched that they have a hard time chasing people down overseas for their debt, and as artists you can actually do a fair bit of tax evasion anyway quite safely, especially if you're working as a "digital nomad" (stupid term). You're right about the good deal on the studio space. Where were you Erasmusing from?

>>3220812

I won't go into detail, but as I said, I was on Erasmus from a EU country, attending a UK university fine art course.

I never even had to worry about student fees, thanks to the exchange agreement.

>>3220152
my god you anime faggots are annoying. PC/leftie atmosphere is absolutely NOT a problem as long as you're not a fucking autist who doesn't know what jokes are appropriate in different social situations. Literally just don't make edgy jokes around people you don't know well enough.

You remind me of some of the social outcasts at my uni who smell like sweat and piss and talk about filthy frank in the corner.

>>3220831
>walk on tenterhooks, suppress your speech at all times and be careful not to be overheard by the anonymous PC gestapo and you'll be fine!

Anon, you have a strawmanned view if you think it's just fedoralords and filthy frank fans that make un PC jokes. In case you haven't been living under a rock, there are endless celebrities and important people who have been attacked, buoycotted, made to apologise and cower in fear of being sacked because they made some regular offhand joke on twitter or said something a little too spicy for the autistic left (even if they themselves are left wing). Most comedians' tame routines would get them classed as racist evil nazi sexist bigots by the kind of people you find on art campuses, if they didn't have the plausible deniability "comedian" card to get them out of it

Have you been living under a rock?

>it's a stealth /pol/ shit thread

Italyfag reporting in

Dont do it here, it's godawful. Florence has some good schools, but at the end of the day the best practice will always be in Ateliers with established painters for fine art or the schools in California for Concept Art

>>3220846
It's literally not, faggot.
>discussing stifling PC atmosphere = /pol/
>talking plainly and using black humour = /pol/
Leave this website

>>3220886
Che c'e' di nuovo, bro. How about the idea of using the university as a "free" studio with good resources and facilities near a city? English student loans aren't like American ones.

Is a waste of money

1. You can learn art by yourself by drawing at home all the time. There are tons of online resources, tutorials, youtube painting videos, etc. There is no need to go to collegue to learna art.

2. Art is one of the few professions where you don't need a degree to work. You just need a good gallery. As an artist, most of the work/pay you will get will be related to the quality of your gallery.

>>3220927
she seems to have large, nice tits. wowzer!

>>3220941
>As an artist, most of the work/pay you will get will be related to the quality of your gallery.
galleries have and still do take 50% of your earnings or more. they contractionally forbid you to sell your art on your own from now on, sort of an exclusivety clause. as an emerging artist, being represented in a C-class gallery just for money is poison for the rest of your career.

the exploitative concept of galleries for artists is crumbling. you'd rather form a group with fellow artists, find offspaces, apply for fundings and exhibit yourself.

>>3220941
Bro, reread the thread OP. I never said you need a degree, and the cost isn't an issue with UK student loans and European free education, I was making the suggestion that enrolling would be a good way to have a work environment to study your fundies and make headway in the world, build up a portfolio and travel to galleries, and take advantages of the amenities and opportunities at a uni, for example joining a sports society, conversing with people on academic courses, cheap housing near a cultural centre etc. Thoughts?

>>3220945
I'm pretty sure when anon said "gallery", he meant portfolio, not a place that exhibits your work publicly

>>3220923
I don't know what's with the influx of twitter users who screech POOOOOOOOOL or NAZI for saying that art school is PC.

>>3220837
literally just a couple hours ago in class someone made a joke about the "negro" pencils being racist and then someone played off that and said they're made by grinding black people up. There are black people in our class and literally no one complained.

Also earlier today I was listing off all the creative ways to call someone a fag, again, no one complained we just laughed.

fucking anonymous PC gestapo? holy shit, shut the fuck up lmfao.

>>3221056
I went to a UK illustration course. My leftie female friend was called in for a meeting with the staff instructors because a student had overheard her joking about Shia Lebouf's HE WILL NOT DIVIDE US campaign. According to the anonymous tip off, my friend had been making hateful comments about Mexicans and expressing bigoted Far Right rhetoric, and had to watch what she said and the way it would be received (presumably by eavesdroppers). Another dude got a disciplinary warning for Transphobia for joking about drag queens and some tumblr transgender fan art.

If someone who wasn't gay even said the word "fag" in our class, no matter the humour, they'd be completely outcast by 50% of the 90% female student body. I had to listen to diversity speeches and lectures, there were organisations set up to combat "hate speech" and the day Trump was elected a third of the class didn't show up, and 4 girls cried.

Our lectures were always about dismantling the leftover privileges of colonialism, this bint would often stick up her hand and rant to the rest of the class about white males

It was a fucking joke mate, a true vision of clownworld and half the class was really miserable. Don't call me a shut in.

>>3221129
then again, this is the spirit of all universities nowadays, no matter which area.

>>3221129
mate where the hell do you go? I've lived in 7 different countries and never experienced that ever. Once someone jokingly said faggot and just one person was like "woah now" and that was the extent of the negative reaction.

>>3221138
not the anon, but you either went to an eastern european uni, which have a hard time picking up pace, or you don't know the atmosphere in western universities right now.

>>3221140
I am going to uni in Scandinavia currently, but I have done courses in the UK and elsewhere. I've never been to eastern Europe.

Unless you are literally spouting alt right rhetoric, like saying "pedophilic jews run the world and hillary runs a child sex slave dungeon in the basement of a pizza store" people won't have a problem with you - as long as you know when certain jokes are appropriate, don't make jokes with terms like nigger and faggot around people you don't know well enough.

>>3221138
University of the Arts, London

Dropped out of there
One of the worst ways to spend the end of your teens but I learned a lot about the kind of people and the kind of work I want absolutely nothing to do with

>>3221140
Is right, I hear it's pretty much like this in almost everything but cold hard STEM, but liberal arts will obviously be the worst

>>3220152
>intolerable PC/leftie atmosphere
yeah you really need to get out more

>>3221153
Where did you go, out of interest?
I studied with a guy from Norway, he was the most unabashedly right wing and conservative guy on the entire (90% female) course, people knew him as "that right wing guy". He was no where near Alt Right territory and completely soft Civic Nationalist but was still considered far right, but was let off the hook because he was quiet, older and had the "foreign exchange" minority card.

Also, unrelated, do you really think large scale paedophile rings in the US government are impossible considering how far the BBC went to cover up its own paedophiles for decades, how the Weinstein and 9/10 jewish names are now being revealed in Hollywood etc, you really think it's impossible that there would be anything similar in the major congressional parties? Who told you that, biased news companies? Here in the UK the BBC covered up Rotherham, they covered up Jimmy Saville and other groomers.
https://www.sott.net/article/253598-The-BBC-Protecting-Pedophiles-and-War-Criminals-Since-2004

>>3221153
lucky you. the air is getting thin for black humor and politically incorrect irony. it's a time when you can't even make an obviously ironic remark wtihout being stoned to death.

>>3221170
I'm currently attending Uni, so I'd rather not say for privacy's sake. Though I did do some summer courses in Cambridge, and there was a trans kid with blue hair who I thought must be the fabled rabbid sjw but even they were really chill and I made some jokes about islam with him and a girl who herself was muslim.

Regarding the large scale pedophile rings: no I don't think they are impossible, I was referring specifically to Pizzagate and the Zionist conspiracy theories - I think that ultra leftwing people would agree with what you're saying so it's irrelevant in this context, they're equally aggressive when it comes to throwing out pedophiles and other sex offenders, if not more so. I think for most people it goes without saying that that stuff is sickening and depressing.

>>3221246
Why do you dismiss Pizzagate then? The rabid way it was instantly called a "debunked neckbeard conspiracy theory" by every single mainstream outlet when it followed the same pattern as Weinstein, Saville, BBC etc scandals is very suspicious, they never actually debunked it, just declared it insane and castigated anyone looking into it.

>>3221164
t.head in the clouds or mendacious leftie

I went to uni for for 3 years in England studying game design. It wasn't a BAD experience per se, but I'd only do it to get a degree if such a thing is valuable in your job field.
The people were great and I get so much motivation from my friends and peer group, but it's so prioritised on selftaught education that you'd wonder why you're even there most of the time. It does help instill a sense of independence and self-motivation though.

Even though you get a bunch of leftie weirdoes, they usually stay out of your way if you stay out of theirs. However, one of our lecturers for the compulsory written parts of the course was pretty biased on a lot of things and gave me no positives whatsoever when I sent in my proposal to write a long essay in support of Gamergate.

>>3221282
>long essay in support of Gamergate
what did you expect

>>3221285
What I was gonna write was gonna be a lot more balanced than what most people spout, to sort of show a different side to it, but apparently even then, my arguments were 'maligned'.

>>3221257
Because there is no evidence for it. Any hints at it being a real thing HAVE been debunked. If I saw some actual evidence instead of insane altright figures like Alex Jones falling for a /pol/ meme I'd be interested.

On the topic of pedophilia though, I'd really love for /pol/ to latch on to the rampant and very public pedophilia going around on youtube.
>https://i.imgur.com/LjSf8Bz.jpg

from what I pulled together that channel is run by the little girl's mother, and in the video description she cheekily wrote "do you guys like my feet :) "

there are so many channels like that it's depressing and I wish someone with power, or communities with power would do something about it because I myself can't.

>>3221291
the description of that video.

>>3221282
So are you a game designer now

>>3221296
Did this for concept art because I didn't want to go to feng zhu's school. Not so fussed about the indie dev side, but I can draw better these days and I learned how to use 3D in my workflow.
I can also use Unreal Engine Blueprint.

Games industry job nowhere in sight though, and most of my 2D peers have gone into QA at Rockstar Lincoln. Kinda wish I pushed 3D more at my time there, but oh well.

>>3221282
Op here, thanks for this! Where did you do it, man? I'm aiming to be self employed and pull in commissions, I've done a few already but they haven't been anywhere near the bigtime and I need to get good for a couple years and build up a portfolio. Would you recommend the course as a good space to work through artist studies, exercises and build up your portfolio?
More importantly, how are you dealing with the student debt? Is it an issue?
>>3221290
Such is the way of academia nowadays. I "failed" my way through an English A level until one day I sat down for an hour and cranked out a pandering feminist critique essay using pseudointellectual lexis and surprise surprise, full marks and great feedback on how much I'd improved and finally understood the course material.

>>3221308
>quality assurance
God that must be soul destroying at any studio other than Rockstar, literally sweeping up and bug testing after doing a 3 year course in design. Nice photo, I miss the snow down in Cornwall. Good luck with your job pursuit pal

>>3221373
Norwich. It's great that you're finding commissions, /r/gamesdevclassifieds has been a good place to find em in my experience.

It depends on your self-discipline, I think, it really isn't worth the amount of debt you'd incur. But what is worth it is the life experience and the opportunity to meet like-minded people who may or may not be able to help get you a job one day.

Honestly, I'm even considering the QA position if I still get nothing in about 6 months' time. A job's a job and I'd rather do that than serve yobbos at Aldi.

>>3220709
leaving to escape loans? huh?
is this a good idea?

>>3221453
Probably best to leave England as soon as possible anyway
move to Eastern Europe asap, live like a king on the humble income of an artist and gather admirers from a culture that still values figurativism and beauty

>>3220812
No I draw like a ten year old, but the fact that the skill required to get on the course is so low is enough to tell me I won't be learning anything u cant find on the Internet and it also adds to the whole uni being a scam for art related stuff. The only reason to go there is for the free money sorta

Probably a bad idea anon