/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3213342
Thanks for proving our point, NGMI-kun.

>>3213342
if u ahd to autistically write this out without even once understanding the idea of understanding why knowing how things work realistically then you probably weren't gonna make it anyway lol

>>3213342
Just because something requires fundamentals to be done well, doesn't mean attempting to do that thing with no prior knowledge is a good way to learn fundamentals.

Cartoons using fundamentals is not an excuse to skip realism. If you skip realism, you only learn to copy other cartoonists. If you want to apply your skills to create cartoony stuff of your own that's not directly derivative of the content you studied, you have to understand realism first.

>>3213342
>>3213342
>flying planes actually requires lots of knowledge such as plane controls, 3D awareness and communication skill.
>me: okay, if flying require all this experience knowledge , then i'll fly first to gain experience
>NOOOOO. You are suppose to know all this before you actually start getting real flying experience MUH BARREL ROLL MUH HE DIDN'T FLY SO GOOD

OP pic == OP

>>3213342
Realism is the first skill you pick in the tree. You can take cartoons once you're at Lvl 6.

>>3213342
Robert Henri expresses this as Form > Movement > Line.

It's about how you learn it. If you try learning realism by copying pixels you won't get any good either. The real prerequisite is draftsmanship. They only say /beg/ have to learn realism first because it's tempting to cheat your way through with symbols when drawing stylized figures.

It means fundamentals in general not just fundamentals about cartooning. Of course you will end up focusing more in some things and less in the others as you choose what you wanna end up doing but in the end you have to know some of every fundamental.

>>3213342
op everyone here is a shitter, you have a point. /ic/ is a perfect example that follows this shit. drawing realism only allows to draw realism. and same for cartoons, one doesnt magically allow you to draw the other, they both require practice and time. its like these faggots think youre gonna learn a whole lot about anatomy if you do realism, bot theyre in for it when they actually draw, dumb niggers.

>>3213354
stop being a retard and believing you can compare this to drawing, when you dont even draw yourself fag boy.

You're supposed to do both at the same time. There is no level to which you are granted access to draw cartoons. Anyone saying otherwise is a crab.

In reality you should be doing both
You should learn the fundamentals, apply them doing life studies, then applying what you have learned to the cartoons.

>>3213367
is that a knife in his torso ?

>>3213342
YOU FUCKING RETARD I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO GO BACK UP TO YOUR ROOM AND STUDY!!!

GET OFF THE FUCKING COMPUTER AND STOP WASTING MY FUCKING INTERNET WITH YOUR INSIPID BLOG POSTS BEFORE I GET THE BELT, YOU FUCKING FAGGOT!

JESUS CHRIST! LOOK AT ALL THIS GARBAGE! YOU'RE JUST RAMBLING LIKE A FUCKING IDIOT! DID ONE OF YOUR RETARD FRIENDS HURT YOUR FUCKING FEELINGS OR SOMETHING??? GOD!!!

THE INTERNET BILL'S COMING OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ALLOWANCE!!! I HOPE YOUR SHITTY LITTLE BLOG WAS WORTH NOT EATING THIS MONTH!!!!!

How about you post some of your cartoons. If they're good, maybe you won't seem that absolutly moronic after all.

>>3213599
Anyone got the *SMACK* pasta?

>>3213599
This year, I'm thankful for that pic

>>3213590
yes. as you know, hes dead.

>>3213363
>Lvl6

What is that?

>>3213691
Diablo 2

This is probably a bait thread but whatever.

Realism has boundaries. You have to follow certain rules or it just won't look like a real person.
Stylised drawings have internal rules but those rules are arbitrary, they're only internally consistent (if at all).
If you draw stylised first, you will probably excuse your shortcomings as "style", when it's really not deliberate at all.

It's also just easier to practice realism due to realism literally being all around you. Also much more fun to slowly come up with your own ways to simplify/symbolise certain parts of the figure rather than imitating other artists.

It just depends on what you want to achieve. Do you want to draw casually? Yeah, just draw anime or whatever, who cares, You'll get a decent enough result eventually.
Are you interested in pursuing mastery in drawing/painting? Well, better hit those life studies.

>>3213354
Yes because if you fuck up a drawing on the first try you get fucking mangled. Retard.

This is a okeaki I made on some other chan as part of a joke, half way through I realized i was employing real anatomy in between the symbol drawing w/o thinking about it. Not saying its a great achievement or anything, but if I didn't practice drawing real faces it'd end up a bunch of dislodged forms stacked atop each other. Great majority of cartoon faces and bodies are first and foremost simplifications of features existing in the real life human form.

You people who don't understand the difference between fundamentals and rendering in photorealism are absolutely doomed. Muh style will get you nowhere, you will fall where you began.

>>3213820

PS I drew that shit with a mouse, somehow.

>>3213342
/ic/ is one person with 100+ VPNs.

>>3213342
This is a result of 0.5% anatomy studies and 99.5% cartooning from imagination, don't be like me OP! Grind those boxes and anatomy studies.

>>3213995
>you can tell them apart
>0.5% anatomy studies

you're kicking yourself way too hard

>>3214048
i dont think he is

>but McGregor, if you want stamina you need to run!
>RANIN IS BAD FOR THA KNEES
>dude, seriously, you are gonna tire out mid-fight!
>IM FOITIN A 40YR OLD LOL, IF FOITIN REQUIRES STAMINA ILL JUST FIGHT MORE AND HAVE MORE STAMINA
>It's the other way around..
>CRAB TRAINER ILL JUST FITE AND BECOME GOOD

>>3214164
why are you retards comparing other skills to drawing? it doesnt work that way at all...

>>3214214
how can you even draw when you're wearing boxing gloves lol

>>3214217
https://youtu.be/G6PKgEu0lik

>>3213514
>>3213782
>>3214214
>drawing is like nothing on this planet
>the process of learning something is always 100% differently than learning something else

this is the biggest fault of beginners, they think drawing is such a different thing than others when it's just the same: repetition, muscle memory, and memorizing something (how the light works, how shadows work, proportions, perspective)

I bet you don't even know what proportions or perspective means. Hint: knowing proportions means memorizing the size of each objects in relativeness with others, and perspective refers to remembering what we see, don't, or how we see it depending on the situation

>>3214287
you're only engaging with one aspect of art and it's the dullest driest part that comes into play for the first few months or years of progress. after that the creative universe opens up if you actually have an imagination. if you don't then, yeah, you're going to be copying from the external world forever because you have no inner one.

>>3214334
the fuck you talking about?

>>3214355
Hint: make an argument or ask a question if you want to stop shitposting and contribute.

>>3214362
>ask a question
that's what I think I did, now waiting on your argument

>>3213342
>what is form
>what is value
>what is non-figure drawing
>what is stylization=simplification

Honestly.

>>3214364
Not the anon, but he means that you have to get fundamentals in order to be able to play with them. First you copy off the real world, then mess with it to create your own. And if you don't have an imagination for that, you'll always just be copying.

>>3214388
that's like coming in and saying you have to be creative to write good books when we are discussing the alphabet

>>3214388
no. you learn to draw any way you want. you only need the most basic of concepts. then if you want to do cartoons you learn how symbols work and maybe buy a mannikin. kids older than maybe 10 can make simple manga if they have the attention span for it. learning more drawing concepts will just make cartooning harder until you can reconcile them.

>>3214364
>>3214389
just leave the thread already.

>>3214393
>no. you learn to draw any way you want. you only need the most basic of concepts. then if you want to do cartoons you learn how symbols work and maybe buy a mannikin. kids older than maybe 10 can make simple manga if they have the attention span for it. learning more drawing concepts will just make
stay badcartooning harder until you can reconcile them.
>just leave the thread already.
right back at you

>>3214395
>stay badcartooning harder
is this even english?

>right back at you
i'm not the one playing passive aggressive in the form of an argument. you aren't contributing.

>>3214397
>i'm not the one playing passive aggressive in the form of an argument. you aren't contributing.
I made my argument, not comming up with any new one until you come up with a counter argument
>is this even english?
not recognizing your own words?

>>3214399

>>3213995
>boxes
fuck this method
literally no artist before some time in the middle of the 20th century has used this sterile, misleading shit of a concept. it distracts from developing any artistic intuition.
you are promoting a method that is misleading. if you want to make concept art bullshit, sure, go for it. character design crap for vidya, go for it. if you want to become an artist, hands off all this shit teaching with "one box here, same size there, vanishing points! measuring!!! segments of the body!" …

this kid who studies sculpture in Milano showed me his plastics. just some plain old sculptures, realism, strict teaching. it looked fairly good, if a little boring. lots of details, correct proportions.
when this was asked to draw a face from scratch, it was nothing! it was equal to the skills of any random kid with no interest in art and no practice.

doctrine, schematic teaching and generic learning books do nothing for you. best case, you get a hint of motivation to go do your own works, worst case: you ruin your entire expectations, outlooks and development potential, because you can't forget thinking in boxes, measuring and all that shit when really what you would need to do is look with your own eyes and build an intuition.

>>3214412
you forget retards aren't looking to become artists. they just want a deterministic formula so they don't have to include more failure into their horrible lives. you will rarely ever find someone online looking to discuss art other than for raw technical details or for their dick to be sucked.

>>3214419
still worth pointing out that Loomis and all this similar bullshit is a fucking deception.

>>3214427
sure. except they will still demand a replacement because changing what they want or having to think is too much work.

>ITT:
>dunning-krueger posters

>>3213342
In places like Southeast Asia and India, students learn math through rote memorization, shortcuts that aren't explained, and non-stop drilling. Students don't ask questions or challenge the course work. It isn't until much later that theory is introduced, and inquisitiveness and creativity is encouraged. These guys trounce the US in math every year.

The point is this. Without a solid foundation, any banter between student and instructor, any debate over theory, is wasted time. You aren't equipped to understand the answers, and you are likely to oversimplify and misrepresent them, just as you've done in your green text.

My suggestion is for people like yourself to step away from this sort of debate on /ic/. Go practice and gain your mileage, and have a little bit of faith in the academic material. You can begin to question things after you've acquired the very basics.

>>3214478

I'd generally agree, but if you don't have it in you, nothing can help you. that's the point here: >>3214412

>/ic/ is one person

also, the reason people say "study from life" is because THATS the most realistic thing to observe. Cartoons will always be an approximation, and often deliberately warp reality.

>>3214214
oh yeh, drawing is completely unique to anything else and taps into a hidden part of the brain which unlocks visions of a fucking a parallel dimension

>>3214574
Different professions and skills work differently and require different modes of thought, you fucking mong. You're like the autists that kept trying to compare drawing to math or science last time I came on this godforsaken board

>>3214412
pyw

>>3214450
n-no bully

>>3214412
>>3214427

>literally no artist before some time in the middle of the 20th century has used this sterile, misleading shit of a concept. it distracts from developing any artistic intuition.

You know that most art done before that time was also fucking literalism using plumb lines and grids right? Most of the people here want to be able to draw well from imagination as well as from observation

>>3214729
Are you retard or do you just pull facts out of your ass?

>>3214481
>it was the talent poster all along
post work

>>3214399
>not recognizing your own words?
Better question is, are you?

Because that's not even close to a coherent word right there.

As for OP- That's the shit people should start with because it helps them get a grasp at how things work. Otherwise they flounder around. That isn't to say that's how everyone does it, but it's the most common way to do things.

>>3214622
if you haven't approached what your doing from EVERY possible angle, then you're only holding yourself back.

>>3214412
Fundies are God you literal fucking mongoloid

This thread should've had 0 replies.

>>3217003
but it didn't, sasuga /ic/

>>3213599
>>3213607
YOU DID IT AGAIN

>closes the door and locks it

WHAT DID I TELL YOU, NEWFAG WHAT THE FUCK DID I TELL YOU LAST TIME

>undos belt
>grabs you from behind

STOP MAKING YOUR OWN FUCKING THREADS!

>throws you on the couch
>starts beating you with the belt
>smack
>smack
>smack

STOP *smack MAKING *smack YOUR *smack OWN *smack THREADS!!

READ THE FUCKING STICKY! *smack

POST IN THREADS THAT ALREADY EXIST!!! *smack

>you're bleeding and crying now
>smack
>smack

GET *smack IT THROUGH *smack YOUR SKULL!! *smack

YOU'RE WHY MOMMY LEFT, YOU FUCKING IDIOT!! *smack

STOP MAKING ME DO THIS!! *smack

>smack
>smack
>smack
>smack

FUCK!!

>throws you to the ground
>you lay in a heap sobbing
>reties belt

I HAD BETTER NOT SEE ANOTHER FUCKING THREAD FROM YOU AGAIN. YOU POST IN THAT GODDAMNED BEG THREAD WITH YOUR RETARD FRIENDS AND YOU DON'T COME OUT AGAIN!! YOU UNDERSTAND ME!!!

>unlocks door
>leaves you to find the loomis books

>>3217111
Fuck I messed up the spacing

>>3217003
And now since you're too retarded to sage it'll have a few more.

the state of /ic/

>>3217119
I never take off my sage, you insufferable faggot. You belong in this thread.