/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3196395
Post your manga.

>>3196398
That's unnecessary. Besides it's not finished yet.

I mostly got all my basic idea's on how to do stuff using Araki's "Manga in Theory and Practice"

The only problem is that manga isn't really profitable enough to justify the time spent and the work load demanded is higher then I can achieve so all my mangaku sketches lay in folders

Really it's a fun idea to toy with but making games has the highest profit to work margin in the current year and probably for the foreseeable future
Kids just don't like reading anymore
Even most notorious newcomers have to devolve to doujin to pay rent

Golden age of manga is dead

>>3196845
>The only problem is that manga isn't really profitable enough to justify the time spent
?

>>3196845
Just draw slightly smaller eyes and call it a comic.

>>3197230
Comics are less profitable than manga though.

I'm posted test pages in the comic thread already, bugger off.

longer story coming soon™

>>3197222
Let's say for example you make a chapter for your manga every 2 weeks right?

You do that for 2 years so you now have 48 chapters of manga

What do you think is the total profit you might receive for this 48 chapters under the assumption that you manage to find a reasonable publisher and get it into stores

>>3196845
Wow that's a painful exercise

>>3196395
I've read a crapton of webcomics etc. and almost inevitably they shit the bed

1) by infodumping a boring setting on you
2) by having completely uninteresting story and characters

So I'd say write a good script first and then think about all the drawing
unless you're making porn in which case it just doesn't matter how shit everything is

>>3197231
There is literally zero profit in manga unless you are japanese and live in Japan. Comics aren't the most lucrative industry, but at least you'd have a chance of making a living with them.

>>3197537
>There is literally zero profit in manga unless you are japanese and live in Japan.
This is factually false. There are plenty of nonJapanese mangaka running various series right now, and there've been a few in the past as well.

The only real requirement is that you speak Japanese, in addition to having the necessary skills to make a successful manga that is ofc.

>Comics aren't the most lucrative industry, but at least you'd have a chance of making a living with them.

Not exactly:
http://www.comicsbeat.com/creator-says-creator-owned-comics-pay-as-little-as-31-25-a-page-if-youre-lucky/

If you're lucky... you manage to print 3000 copies of your comic. You're much better off working for Marvel and DC if you're in it to make a living. Or begging for money on Patreon.

You're "chances" aren't exactly good.

You have a much better shot at being financially sustainable making manga in Japan, it's just the entry barrier is much higher. Not only do you have to know the language, but you also have to meet the right output of being able to hit roughly 3-4 pages a day. But "zero" profit, yeah, maybe if you have "zero effort." Others have done it, and Jump Rookie takes in global submissions all the time, the only thing is that they have to be in Japanese, but the door has been open all this time.

>>3197464
>Let's say for example you make a chapter for your manga every 2 weeks right?
Ok, that's fucking terrible, but some magazines run that. They demand a higher page count (24 pages + as opposed to the usual 17-19), and you get less pay, but ok.

>You do that for 2 years so you now have 48 chapters of manga
48 chapters of manga, at roughly, lets say 20 pages a chapter to keep it simple, so lets go with 9600 pages of manga in 1 year.

>What do you think is the total profit you might receive for this 48 chapters under the [...]

Easy. The standard entry level commission pay for manga at Shounen Jump is 12,000yen a page, or $120 a page. It goes up if you get more popular though. Now it's possible Jump might pay higher than other magazines, especially since it's a weekly magazine, meaning there's a higher cost involved in that you'd likely need to pay assistants as well, so that factors in. but a bi-monthly magazine. Let's say $100 a page commision, making it 20% lower than SJ. For simplicity.

So, 100 x 9600 = $960,000, in 4 years.

Provided you can keep the manga going for that long that is.

That's not factoring in royalites. The standard Royalty for manga is 10% of what's typically $5 books. So 50c a book. Manga sells much better in Japan than comics do in the west, by a long shot. With SJ, your first print will see 200,000 to be modest, but look at the volume sales of even lesser popular manga, and a lot are hitting the millions per volume. And that's not even factoring in royalties from merch and an anime series.

Just on volume sales alone, even if you compare niche manga and doujins, a lot sell far better than your average comic book. Hell, some even sell far better than stuff like Marvel, DC, and Walking Dead.

So the benefits are clear, it's just the entry barrier that is high. But manga is by far more lucrative than comics, especially since manga are becoming more popular in the west, and comics are slowly dying.

>>3197601
>There are plenty of nonJapanese mangaka running various series right now, and there've been a few in the past as well

Who are they and what are their series?

Finally, to seal things off, these are the top 100 manga volume sales for 2016:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-11-30/top-selling-manga-in-japan-by-volume-2016/.109353

You can see that even down at no.100, they're still in the half a million range.

By comparison, this is the average sales for a Walking Dead Issue (comes out once a month)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Issue_170

It's estimated sales are at 65,000, and this is one of the most popular comics in the west right now. A runaway success story with a TV series. You'd have to get super lucky to get this big with your comic, and it doesn't even sneeze at the lower end of the top 100 in manga. Hell, I'm sure if you dig deeper, you'd see that most manga volumes for any publisher are on average selling in the 100,000s or at least 10,000s which for the west, is like getting struck by lightning.

So yes, objectively, manga are a much lucrative market.

Is it closed off to foreigners? Only the lazy ones. I can name off at least 5 mangaka who aren't Japanese. So the race card doesn't exactly apply here either, and like I said. Jump Rookie has always accepted global submissions, provided they're in Japanese, for obvious reasons. Without the language, you'd be unable to communicate with editors, and assistants, and you'd have to pay extra and work faster to be able to have a translator making things more complicated.

But for those willing to put the effort in, the door is there, and it's by far the most lucrative market to make a living off of making comics/manga.

>>3197623
>I can name off at least 5 mangaka who aren't Japanese

But you didn't, not even when you were specifically asked to: >>3197607

>>3197607
The creators of Freezing are Korean (Lim Dal Young, and Kim Kwang Hyun), the creator Sun Ken Rock and Dr. Stone, Boichi is Korean. Felipe Smith of Peepo Choo is the first westerner to get published in Japan, he was from Chile I think, but raised in the states. Frederic Boilet is a French artist who draws manga in Japan. Asa Ekstrom is a Swedish mangaka most known for a series called Nordic Girl. The author of No Game No Life is Brazillian, Etc... list goes on.

Most foreigner mangaka are Korean due obvious geographical closeness (and there are a few in fact), and cultural similarities, but it shows the door's open. Most westerners aren't even aware it's possible that's why you see less people try, but it's certainly possible.

>>3197633
>list goes on

No, it doesn't. You stopped. If the list goes on, keep listing.

>>3197638
How about you look it up yourself. I listed 5, and I could keep listing, there are a ton of Koreans making manga in Japan, and there are a fair number of westerners. A lot don't get their own series, but there's a few working as assistants at Shueshia right now:

https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/2qy75z/im_aiming_to_be_a_mangaka_working_for_shonen_jump/cnav1hw/

If you're genuinely interested in making a success out of yourself, you can do the research yourself. I already have.

Moreover, Jump is currently holding a contest RIGHT NOW, open to the whole world for a series for their magazine. So it's clear they're open to global talent.

If you just wanna argue, then we're done here. You've been given the evidence, and there's a lot more you can look up if you're willing to dig. There's no helping someone who creates barriers for themselves in order to not even bother trying.

What about doing it for fun and to improve?

>>3197638
When asked to list five he didn't list 100, how thoughtless of them.

>>3197641
I read the profiles of the Western artists you named. Thiago Lucas is Japanese-Brazilian, and lived in Japan since he was seven years old. Frederic Boilet and Felipe Smith both had backgrounds in comics before being able to achieve success in Japan. Asa Ekstrom is a rare exception.

I wish you luck in the Jump contest. You'll need it.

>>3197659
If you're willing to do whatever it takes, there's nothing that can stand in your way.

Nothing is impossible.

>>3197659
are you really trying to find excuses because you yourself couldn't do it? Not to mention putting down others that want to at least try because they have the ambition as well?

>Want to do animu
>Told to learn fundies
>Study non-stop for 3 years
>Come back to animu
>I'm as bad as I was day 1

I was fell for the meme.

ive been drawing skits and writing tons and tons of scripts and storys for manga for nearly 10 years now and havent summoned the energy to even start drawing any of it full time due to constant work . really thinking about making one into a VN .what should i do anon's

>>3198048
Give me your script

>>3197641
>Moreover, Jump is currently holding a contest RIGHT NOW, open to the whole world for a series for their magazine. So it's clear they're open to global talent.

Contests are done for marketing, not for finding talent. It's a fan appreciation thing, like holding a raffle or a fanart challenge or something. They are getting so many local newcomers who want to become mangaka, they have absolutely no need for foreign "talent". Especially because the western artists who want to become mangaka are nowhere near as skilled as the Japanese or Korean ones.

>>3198048
>>3197852
Fuck off. Instead of motivating others you guys are bragging how shit you are.
Manga maybe has a lot of procedure but that doesn't take fucking years. There are even 15 year olds who gets a manga adaption.

>>3198120
you're pretty fucking retarded lol , you say we should be motivating others but most of us are on here looking for motivation from others as well .

>Manga maybe has a lot of procedure but that doesn't take fucking years.
who's to say you have a deadline or time limit of how long you should create a story ? if you're creating a world from the ground up with tons of characters and plot that needed to be ironed out that's totally fine . i'm 24 right now and for me to be working on a manga since i was 15 made ALOT of changes . i've tons of story's since then besides that

>There are even 15 year olds who gets a manga adaption.
just because you're able to publish a manga at a young age doesn't mean its good or well thought out . you really shouldn't be even posting here with the negativity your bringing to the table

>>3198049
>script
>give
are you tryin to rob me through the interwebs

>>3197852
takes longer than 3 years to git gud anon . dont give up

>>3197852
if you want to draw weebshit you have to study weebshit. it's a highly derivative style where everyone copy everyone else. fundies won't magically make you good at it.

>>3198214
crab spotted

>>3198270
"weebshit" is not one style, retard. Especially when it comes to manga, where pretty much every successful mangaka has his own, fairly unique style.

-How do you increase productivity on drawing your pages?
-If I post online, where should I?
-Is selling on Medibang even worth it?
-Should I do a oneshot or start right away?

>>3198349
>How do you increase productivity on drawing your pages?
As someone still drawing a oneshot halloween comic, just use flat shadows
>Should I do a oneshot or start right away?
Post a oneshot first to see if anyone likes it, or if you really want to draw your idea, then just do it.
>If I post online, where should I?
Make a tumblr for it, maybe? These threads had good resources:
>>>/co/96420700

>>3198366
Thanks, how do you keep your speed or from drifting away from what you're working on? I guess tons of discipline.

>>3198270
>crab spotted

But he told the anon not to give up.
Crabs don't say that.

>>3198375
Compared to when I started, I've slowed down, but you do need discipline to keep drawing after you've missed the deadline.

What's the ideal size of manga a manga ? I have a 9" x 12" sketchbook Is this fine ? How do they even do spread in that ?

What paper size do they use in manga ? I have a 9" x 12" sketch pad.
Is this fine ? And how do they do double page spreads in manga ?

Comics > Manga

>>3199431
Manga > Comics

Not even trolling, they are better in just about every regard and I WILL fight you on it.

>>3196395
>I summerized the problems in making manga.
you missed the part where nobody gives a shit about comic books

>>3196395
You forgot about the culture. If you're making a manga it is necessary that it's in japanese culture.
I can't push my manga forward because of it.

>>3199725
>it is necessary that it's in japanese culture

I don't read manga but I'm pretty sure every season there is an anime setting not in japan.

>>3199727
But you need to know manga and anime etiquette. Imagine if you had them acting all like blacks. It would be a total bomb.

>>3199728
>Imagine if you had them acting all like blacks.

what is that even supposed to mean?

I don't want to go there but anime characters aren't even drawn to look like japs.

So I realized most of japanese manga is first and foremost a replacement for intimacy not found in japanese daily life. Knowing this, how can I, a westerner, ever hope to create a true manga? Do westerners crave intimacy? How do they find it? Do they use manga the same as japanese people? Probably, yes. But I want to know how Americans find intimacy if they dont know what manga is.

>>3199727
I'm making a manga about a homeless anime girl.
I can't decide which culture should I choose from.
Homeless people in Japan are different than the west.

>>3199735
>I don't want to go there but anime characters aren't even drawn to look like japs.

That's a pretty dumb normie meme. Just look at the OP image. Girl looks distinctively asian, especially the eyes. Only very stylized.

Just do a 4-koma.

>>3197603
just sayin...
48 times 20 is 960
so we should divide everything here by 10

>>3199751
You could always keep the setting ambiguous. Couple japan-style streets here, some western elements there, never exaggerating either side as to avoid having a big hero 6 san-fransokyo thing going on.

Take the japan city environments that could pass as western, forget the huge japanese events like festivals with girls wearing yukatas and grabbing goldfishes out of buckets.

>>3199979
96k over 2 years isn't that terrible for an entry level position

>>3200044
he botched it though, that's if it's once a month (20 pages a month), every two weeks like the original anon had said is double that.

>>3199751
But Yotsuba is already that

>>3199088
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+kind+of+paper+do+mangaka+use

>>3199745
have you never felt lonely? How is feeling lonely and wanting intimacy a foreign concept for you? Americans find it via movies and live action tv shows. the manga equivalent in the west are comics. There's more than one way to alleviate loneliness, in both east and west. for instance korean tv dramas are very popular in the east, a lot of them are about romance. you sound autistic.

>>3196395
This is my mango. I somewhat suck at mango, but I think I'm improving.
Shading (fake-ish screentones) and text aren't mine. Everything else is.

>>3200274
Do you do only the linework? Either way it looks pretty nice but the shading comment throws me off.

>>3200274
blog?

>>3200282
I do everything except the story and shading. So paneling, sketching and inking.

>>3200306
Google bbc chan

>>3200408
Forgot to attach pic. This is my part of the art.

How do I start?

>>3199896
Asians don't have eyelid folds and their eyes protrude out their socket. Hold a ruler to your forehead and press it down; it should touch your cheek if you're white. Blacks and Asians can't have this happen. They're intentionally drawn to appear white.

>>3200274
This has potential, but there's so much going on in one page that it's pretty difficult to process everything.

>>3200417
Step 1: move to japan

>>3200415
Well congrats on having the only good art in that smutbros site you work with.

>>3200418

>They're intentionally drawn to appear white.

No they aren't you baka.

>>3196395
no colours though

>>3200418
... You really haven't seen enough Asians in your life. Those exaggerated generalisations don't mean shit.

I know this question is not related in here, but i couldn't find other than this thread.

In this strip, yellow haired one tries to open door, however pink haired one is afraid of her. so she desperately locks door. suddenly, bullets fly right towards them. yellow smashes door window with her elbow. ( to save pink. )

I think this story is not showed clear in strip. scene count seems not enough, visual information is not enough. but at the same time, I want to minimize the use of scenes because of the speed of action. I could add a few scene to visualize more things but that would be dragging the whole thing. And I'm not sure how readers perceive these scenes. Is it clear enough?

>>3200555
Funny thing is I read the strip before even seeing what your question was and it read perfectly the way you wanted it. Definitely clear.

>>3200418
But it touches my nose instead?

>>3200555
Good pacing anon.

>>3196395
You forgot businessman, audience, trends, etc.

>>3200415
Really nice art! How did you start doing work for it?

>>3197623
The irony here is that the walking dead creator with his 65000 sales is raking in more money than 99,9999999999999999% of mangakas because western tv show >>>>> anime

>>3200568
Press harder, idiot

>>3200692
In case I wasn’t being clear, if literally everyone was a mangaka with their own anime, TWD would smoke all of them hands down.

TWD makes like 8 million bucks of pure profit per episode from commercials alone

The guy who wrote the comic is also selling rights to his other shit and is a partner in the publishing company, among other things.

It’s funny how weebs always cite royalties from merchandise when they argue being a mangaka is totally profitable, but then go b-b-but muh issue sales when talking about comic.

>>3200692
>>3200708
You do realize The Walking Dead is like, a miracle success story right? DC and Marvel have a chokehold on the Western Industry and for some reason the comic audience in america is fine with it so independant comics are still only taking off ever so slowly.
In the west you don't make it off your comic alone, you only make it once you finally get some shitty movie or tv adaption that spreads the name of your brand.
Tell me who's the last comic creator in the west who's become recognized in the last 3 years or so

>>3196845
Can you upload the book my friend? My shitty country doesn't have Amazon, but we have a jungle tho.

>>3200568
place it in front of either of your eyes, not in the middle of your face... unless you're a cyclop.

>>3200708
>In case I wasn’t being clear, if literally everyone was a mangaka with their own anime, TWD would smoke all of them hands down.

That's a really stupid example. What good is it to you or any aspiring western comic book artist that there was one guy who hit the jackpot? If anything, the success of TWD highlights just how few comic book artists ever get that sort of exposure and mainstream attention.

>>3200418
You don't seem to understand what actual real life anatomy those anime lines represent. Look at the OP image and then look at pic related. The skin that goes over the eyelid, which is a distinctively asian feature, is what those 2 lines right above the eyes represent.

>>3200692
They're not making more than a lot of the SJ mangaka, I'll tell you that much.

>>3200555
The last two panels are a bit unclear. Change the onomotopeya for when the bullets fly, to Bang, so it's obvious those are gun shots.

Also, redraw the panel where yellow elbows the window. It looks like she's taking cover/getting hit.

>>3200757
>plastic surgery model to prove a point

No, you don't understand. This is what your average nip looks like only way uglier. What you are showing me is your stupidity. She went under the knife to stitch her lids in because she lacks the sheet that folds her eyes like whites. Any at all slightest variation is a rare 2% (but their eyes still slant) and anime girls aren't all rare 2% and if that were the case that would obviously be the Japanese glorifying a small percentage of their race that has distinct white features (but only very slight).

>>3200797
You're an idiot. This is not how caucasian eyelids look like, if you saw these eyes cropped out and nothing else, you would instantly recognize it as asian. It's not a fold like what korean models get when they get the eye surgery, it's simply the skin under their eyebrows not completely covering the lid of their eyes as it SOMETIMES happens with asians.

You do realize asians have eyelids, right? Their eyeballs aren't just sitting in the eye socket without any skin covering it you fucking moron.

>>3200804
Negro do I seriously have to do this for you to see? Even their OWN art teachers admit they lack these features and to put it in the art style when teaching. Chinese paint asian face but make sure to dock the eyes set in and add folds + colorful hair/eyes. They know this fact but say they "seem themselves" in the character regardless. It's minor edits to their inferior in looks (what they think of supremacy, not me) for their cartoons for mass appeal.

>>3200811
excuse my typos I just woke up 20 mins ago and need my coffee

>>3200815
also the vast amount of female pics you'll find on english google will be of gravure models. One trip through a deeper search and you'll find school girls with snake eyes out the woodwork. Despite that, there is a huge difference in the eyes. And did you do the eye test I told you? Use a pencil our your stylus and hold it in front of your eye then press down.

>>3200811
>>3200811
this is true. I've seen tutorials from youku of chinese artists, and tutorials from japanese artists where they literally pull out reference photos of caucasian blue eyes, facial structure etc. while they're explaining their process. This is one example I had bookmarked from a chinese site, the artist encouraged people to look up pictures of western faces.

>>3200811
Maybe in the 80s and 90s they were leaning more towards western eyes and some anime styles are still drawn like this, but most of the time these days, the lines clearly represent the skin somewhat covering the eyelid as is common with asian people, just like in those photos posted, not the skin creating a fold with the eyelid as is common with western people.

>>3200830
Well, many Chinese artists are heavily inspired by rennaissance art and classical realism and the figures in their work often are caucasians. Do you think just because they are asian they draw anime by default?

>>3200840
>Maybe in the 80s and 90s they were leaning more towards western eyes
I'm glad we reach an agreement and conclusion.
>but most of the time these days
"most of the time"? I guess half the time they still do it, huh?
>the lines clearly represent the skin somewhat
>somewhat

No anon, that isn't somewhat. Those girls look white. This shouldn't even be up for debate.

i can't be the only one who doesn't give a fuck

>>3200853
about what there are 2 conversations going on atm

(sorry in advance for contributing to this shitty, time-waste of a debate)
but it's pretty fucking obvious that anime is emulating an /IDEAL/ kawaii image of a girl. Not what the average Jap looks like. The examples you should be looking at are the idols/actresses/models who are considered to be beauties under the Japanese culture.
Not saying that their idea of beauty isn't influenced by Western culture, but it's still pretty distinct from it.

Also even just looking at >>3200804, >>3200849 there are plenty of Japs (and Asians) with double eyelids. And from >>3200811, there are plenty of Caucasians with hooded eyes. I think it's pretty clear which one anime styles tend to go for. Hint: the line is closer to the eyelash.

>>3200876
>posting more east asian blepharoplasty under the knife girls

Anon just admit it and stop this. Look at the statistics for surgery in Japan for goodness sakes.

>>3200879
Also why ignore what I pointed out? >>3200849 or is this denial

I liked it better when we talked about manga

>>3200880
also
>Hint: the line is closer to the eyelash.
there are multiple procedures to get the perfect eye and it costs extra. Some pay for the full procedure and some just pay for one area to be done.

>>3200876
even japs themselves make an argument against this.

>>3200714
>>3200750
>lmao look at this comic, manga sells way more!!!!
>that comic is a fucking gold mine
>lmao who cares

>>3200767
>weeb delusions

>>3200901
>>3200902
It's funny how they still refuse to draw cheeks despite them prominently overlapping the nostrils on the side profile the Asian faces.

>>3200921
Come again /co/mrade?

Walking Dead doesn't even sneeze at the sales of the most popular manga:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_comic_series

>>3200901
>>3200902
>yet another manga thread derailed by retarded WE WUZ ANIME N SHIET faggots

>>3200714
>DC and Marvel have a chockehold on the Western Industry
>as a matter of fact, your whole post
Good job not knowing anything about anywhere else in the world, burger

>>3200951
>t. buttmad /co/mmumist

The sooner you accept manga are dominant industry in the medium, the easier it'll be for you. Comics are not only on a decline, but also creator-owned comics perform very poorly in the west due to it being a much smaller industry, with much smaller market, mostly dominated by established franchises. Unless you're really lucky, or you're Marvel or DC you'll be lucky to scratch off a living off making comics. As pointed out before, 3000 prints is a GOOD run, for less than 10% royalties and NO commision.

The problem lies in stigma and culture. In the west, comics are still struggling to be respected as a medium, and are mostly perceived as childish thanks to the dominance of capeshit, and Sunday funnies. By contrast, in Japan, EVERYONE reads manga due to their lifestyle (their heavy dependence on public transit), and how massively available and cheap they are. For $5 you can get a whole volume with 170 pages roughly. For the same price, you get one 22 page issue in the west that comes out once a month. The slow output as well as the limited distribution of western comics is what makes them slow to take off.

And god forbid you try to make something weeb-influenced. You'll be compared to the genuine article ALL the time.

As for webcomics, they're taking off, but very niche, and the lack of professionalism as well as a dominant central platform is preventing the medium from taking off.

Long story short, if you wanna make a creator owned story, print it, and ACTUALLY make decent bank off of it, you're best off learning the standards, and making ACTUAL manga. Any comic that relies on the measly 22page issue a month output has a very hard time of ever taking off, at least not until it's built up 4+ years of content for people to follow. And even then. So it's 4+ years of work before you know if your project will ever be a success. Manga, within the first year or less, you'll see if you've gathered a meaningful loyal following.

>>3200555
Didn't understand yellow was elbowing the mirror. That needs fixing.

>>3200946
nigger, can you even read?

>>3200949

Not even white, you should just acknowledge it so it makes it easier what race to do comparative anatomy for kawaiis if it wasn't obvious.

>>3200964
Still makes a lot more sense for a westerner to make a web comic than try to become a mangaka.
In fact it being kinda small and niche is ideal if you're trying to stand out

>>3200949
>WE WUZ ANIME N SHIET
Fucking kek. I'm stealing this.

Enough already! If I wanted to talk about race I'd read what the tumblrfags are up to.

It's every fucking anime/manga thread on ic, go cry your race out on pol.

>>3200949
>WE WUZ ANIME N SHIET
Fucking kek. I'm stealing this.

>>3201052

You don't have to be apologetic. Like I said I'm not even white and I bring up valid points. And besides, I didn't start this the other anon did >>3199728

>>3201054

>>3201054
It ruins what they see when they look at manga. The realization of whats actually going on. Japan is an export country and their economy thrives on foreigners buying their products. It makes sense when their cartoons are drawn in a particular way to have a global market to compete with Hollywood.

>>3201052
if I wanted to talk about wh*tes trying to become “mangakas”, I’d kill myself out of embarrassment

>>3201064
Then what the fuck are you doing in this thread

>>3201064
Maybe trall about doing comics using the average japanese way of storytelling and drawing?
Or should we only draw realistic or /co/ stuff cuz we not glorious asian

our country has a monthly jornal consisting of amateur manga, our version of shonen jump. It's called Jankenpon

>>3201069
Maybe you should just git gud because you seem to have no intention of making one since you haven't posted one by now.

>>3201072
That's pretty good.

>>3201073
kek I'm currently doing one for the Medibang/Jump contest but since I'm a beginner and shit I don't see the point in posting my storyboards, I'll probably post it when it's done.

>>3201078
I had an idea for the jump contest but gave up because it was too ambitious.

It was named "Witch X Robot" and was about a witch traveling to our dimension, breaking into a high-tech military facility and stealing an advanced android so they could conquer the world. Little Witch Academia meets Astro Boy.

>>3201084
Time to use this idea and make tons of money. Can't even give credit because no name is attached, kek.

>>3201085
Honestly I woulnd't even mind, have an idea of mine turned into reality and without working for it? And for free?! Go ahead

>>3201084
Do it anyway at your own pace and post on Webtoons or something, sounds cool and I wouldn't mind meh/bad art if the storytelling/pacing and shit is good

>>3201089
This is the witch character tho.

>>3200951
>Good job not knowing anything about anywhere else in the world, burger
Yes, good job to me for analyzing my home and the industry I want to join. How silly of me to not think about Europoor or France's comics when, haha, i don't fucking live there and won't be working in those countries.

>>3201091
Hey it's cool! Maybe needs a bit more accessories or something but I like. I hope you'll work on this.

>>3201103
This is the character sheet with her full set of clothing, plus broom, wand and portable cauldron for quick potions.

>>3201106
sorry forgot to post the pic

>>3196395
>qft

Its a really daunting task, but if you have a clear vision and dedication to change that vision when it needs it you'll make it.
It is really hard, I don't see me doing it full time until I'm older.
The shame in it is really how people don't respect comics.

>>3201100
>>3200964
Is it so much of a foreign concept to be instructed in the matter of the way the art you make is sold in other countries than USA ? I mean, you could end up favorizing a model to another, like the dumb BLOG poster for the nippon.

>>3201123
and not only him, we're not here because we dislike mangos, he

>>3200274
I like the art, but your structure of paneling and flow is a bit off. I think the problem is by having that char bleed and the third panel colliding disrupts the reading. Possibly too much details too?

>>3201091
>nigger steals a thing to commit violence against the civilised word with
does it end with her getting shot by cops?

>>3201039
Can you?

>>3201073
Not that guy, but I'm aiming to win the Jump Medibang competition. I'd post by storyboard, but it's not done yet. See you in December, then you can tell me all about "white being pathetic for wanting to make manga."

>>3201267
it’s literally the most successful show in history, hard copies are trash in comparison

>>3201229
Would you say the same if she was white?
Any manga artist would change her to white so little racist cunts like you would fap to it instead of going "nigs should get shot by the police", but shit like what you say shouldn't even deserve the seconds I took to write this.

There is not a single black protagonist in a non-violent manga in the whole manga community.
Anime goes as far as to give their characters purple hair to make them stand out, but refuses to give them non-tan dark skin and that pisses me off.

>>3198366
Can vouch for tumblr, I post one illustration (fan art, not my own stuff) every few weeks and I'm mediocre, still have like 80 followers.

>>3199088
Use what fits in your scanner. I used to draw manga/comics, just used printer paper. Unless you're really good there's no point wasting money on good materials. I get nostalgic because I had so much fun doing it, even if I only finished like 5 pages a week, it made me immensely better pretty quickly. That was years ago though. I want to start drawing one again, I want to do something fantasy, maybe similar to akatsuki no yona. It seems so fun to draw that kind of work. I know I can write better than they can, I'm primarily a novelist, but just having a hard time settling on something to do. I've been drawing from anime stills to try and develop a style suitable. I draw too realistically, it would take forever to draw that way for a manga. Fucking /ic/ and their endless life study meme killed me.

>>3200044
Most mangaka are hyper-poorfags, aren't they?
>>3200274
>patreon
How much do you make? Also it looks better in black and white.

What if you ignore all the odds and do like ONE, making a comic then get Murata to redraw it?

>>3201321
Something more possible and equally as good would be to meet another artist in person and work on a manga together, improving from each other and getting instant feedback.

>>3201323
Yeah, one is kinda good in some points but he was lucky, plus this is Japan,there's fewer chances that a japanese well-known artist would stumble upon your stuff (not even a local one)

>>3201310
>How much do you make? Also it looks better in black and white.
Dude it's literally on his page
$707
per month

>>3201303
lmao you’re the one writing a stereotypical black character, how am I racist?

>wahwahwah there is not a single black protagonist in a non-violent manga
>please like my “manga” about a black witch stealing a weapon so she can wage war for no real reason btw

>>3201371
That's not even the only story I have tho

>>3201378
Btw just found a non-violent manga protagonist, in the amateur manga jornal I mentioned before nonetheless.

>>3201303

I feel you dude. I wanted to make a magical girl manga with a black girl protag who is actually cute. The problem is I've never had any good experience with black women IRL in general. It would feel wrong like as if I'm trying to draw a pretend sister I've never had and then it would feel as if I were trying to draw my mom as if she was younger.

>>3201392
during my 12th grade a black transfer student from the uk was assigned to our class, we spoke a lot about mostly anime-related stuff. She had a Tororo phone case and recommended me Paranoia Agent, it was awesome.

People can be black and not act stereotipically trashy, it depends on the environment they're born into.

>>3201398

True but it's very rare at least in my life experience thus far. Or maybe I just need to "get out" more often (like that'll happen).

>>3201400
Dude, it's manga, a whole world for you to create and shape your own way.

From telling the tales of a boy with a monkey tail chasing dragon balls (ew) to showing what would a brilliant teenager do with a book that can kill people to having your MC fondle girls' breasts "on accident" every single chapter.

A dark-skinned magical girl wouldn't be the weirdest thing a mangaka could come up with.

>>3201288
Idk what the fuck you're talking about. What's the most successful show in history?

>>3201303
Hey, it's not Japan's fault niggers are unappealing.

Noir Caesar is just for you if "muh black representation in anime" matters so goddamn much to you though. Japan gives zero fucks about your feels and social politics, so you can fuck right off with that shit though.

>>3201409
Go choke on a dick!
But also thanks

>>3201404
>A dark-skinned magical girl wouldn't be the weirdest thing a mangaka could come up with.

It wouldn't but on the other hand what message am I trying to send?

She transforms obvoiusly but that's where the problem comes in...

Black girls already have a problem with straight hair weaves and beautification products. Am I telling young black girls that this is what you should aim to be? That's the source of the issue here. I can't get away with it like the Japanese can because their hair is already straight.

At the same time natural hair is plain and boring so my main character in her civilian clothing would look plain and boring my default. I could just draw it like how you did >>3201378 here though. But it wouldn't be authentic to real life? That's the issue with trying to do magical girl using black girls, you either have to push away from reality or go full tumblr.

Maybe there is a genius way of going about it that I haven't figured out yet.

>>3201425
sorry I said you without realizing (you) may or may not be the same person

>>3201425
>worrying this much about a message when manga/anime is seen as degenerate anyways
Fucking pathetic
You think you're writing the god damn bible or something?

>>3201427
Why are you still around? Are you so fat you can't reach the mouse to close the tab?

>>3201428
I'm always around. I closed it and came back.

>>3201425
Manga is about fun, don't worry about the message that much because the readers won't either.

In terms of hairstyle you could have her hair pulled back if you want to keep the hair's properties but still keep it controlled, I did this quick example on my phone.

>>3201433

You're right. Precure's designs can be wacky at times so I can take cues from it obviously.

It might be me thinking too much on the hardness of hair and how clumpy it is IRL. I'll just ignore that but keep a 50/50 somehow.
>>3201427
>You think you're writing the god damn bible or something?
mahou shoujo has a written bible and some things must be kept by word

>>3201439
Yeah because they set rules for their world, expanding it in a way.

I once thought about drawing a story where a girl bully had to cosplay as an anime magical girl she looked like in order to trick the kid she bullied into forgiving her.
Then her friends went along with it and her one-off idea turned into a school-funded group to have them visit hospitals dressed as magical girls.

(Super late here, almost 4 in the morning, going to sleep now)

>>3201407
then fuck off>>3201409

I'm gonna finish the manga I'm working on but before that I need to ask these questions:

How is it possible for a foreigner to get a serialization ?
If I upload my manga online will this stop me from publishing my manga in Japan ?

>>3201503
Yes.
Obviously it might because it's not in your hands anymore if you release it like that. If I recall correctly, someone did that before and when it got published they essentially just reprinted it again from the beginning.

>>3201506
There was that manga about a neet. It was firstly post by the author online then it got serialized due to popularity.
If I post my manga online in Japanese then it got popular. Is it possible for a serialization ?
I'm too poor to move to Japan.

>>3201517
You just answered your own question. If you knew Japanese, but you don't, so yeah.

>>3196395
Is it possible to communicate complex themes in the form of manga, or is it something that isn't really expected?

>>3201542
That's up to you anon. As they say, the sky is the limit.

>>3200264
I dont know if youre still around, but I am replying to let you know that I am not autistic. I told my parents, my sister, and my friend about what you said, and they agree that what you said wasn't of a nice persons mouth. I told them that I will let you have one chance to apologize. If you think this is because I want to seem magnanimous in front of my parents, sister, and my friend, then that, frankly, is none of your concern. Please focus on the fact that you now have a chance to redeem yourself in my eyes, but halfheartedness will be taken as flippancy.

>>3201518
I forgot to ask.
Is opening up a patreon will stop me from getting serialize ?

>>3201072
Didn't Tokyopop try to do something similar in the states?

>>3201587
Probably, yeah.
Thing is thay jornal is having trouble posting monthly, maybe the artists are taking too long to finish their stuff.

That's what happens when you're not as strict as shonen jump, the artists get lazy and you can't do anything.

Leaving aside all this discussion about nigger Madokas and white K-Ons, HOW THE FUCK DO I DO BACKGROUNDS?

See, my problem is with coherence. I have to invent my buildings/structures, but I am no architect, no engineer. I wouldn't know the ceiling needs a ridge pole or the height at which doorknobs are generally placed.

Of course some googling may solve this, but aren't there too many little specifics/details to learn? Makes drawing the human figure seem like a piece of cake.

Specially when I don't have an attachment to any specific setting. I'm from a country where houses look neither American (mostly of what I've experienced on TV) nor Japanese (anime/mango). So I have no idea what kind of city I should take as reference. If I draw a Norwegian condo on a South Korean street, things are going to look weird for people who know their shit.

>>3201611
Use reference. Or outright take your own photos, and use them for BGs.

>>3201613
>Use reference.
How do I even know those are the correct references for that kind of setting? It's not like I've been to Japan (or Bulgaria, maybe that's where I want the story to take place in).

>>3201611
that yui is moe

>>3201613
Exactly, mangakas do it all the time for their manga when they don't have assistants do it. Take a photo, trace it or raise its levels, boom done.
You could also use google sketchup and trace it.

>>3201616
So it's a matter of adjusting your story to existing facilities, rather than creating the ideal scenario for your characters?
I don't like it, but it makes a lot of sense.

>>3201623
You could take a perspective from a photo you like and draw over it, might be harder to see the end result though.
There's a software for that, it's free and called carapace.

>>3201587
Wow someone actually remembers tokyopop. I thought it fell away from this timeline.

>>3201614
You have billions of images from all around the world on the internet.

I came here in panic.
Is it possible to xerox a 9"12" sketch pad ? Its where I'm drawing my manga.

>>3201768
I don't know, I use the metric system!
SHIT!

>>3201779
Sorry I just realized how stupid I am.
I've been working non-stop for my manga after all.

Finally figured out a story to write. Got 3 major characters and general story structure settled. Gonna write it today and practice drawing more to get a consistent style. I only improve if I have a goal, and the past few days I improved more than the past few months due to motivation.
Based on Persian "Huma" (bird of paradise/fortune) myth. Fantasy, atmospheric/adventure, bittersweet.

>>3201768
...certain scanners, but generally the bigger the scanner, the more expensive. Which is why I recommended printer paper (8.5 x 11) or heavier paper in the same size for guaranteed compatibility. You can try Staples, but it gets expensive to pay to scan. You can also scan in sections and stitch it together, but this is time consuming, difficult, and may warp the drawing. You can photograph the pages, but that leads to lower quality.

>>3201503
>If I upload my manga online will this stop me from publishing my manga in Japan ?
Made in Abyss.

>>3201542
>Is it possible to communicate complex themes
Yes. Duh.

>>3201611
References and basic architecture study. desu actually drawing it is a pain in the ass...perspective applied to every single detail, the penmanship gets crowded quickly. Just pick a country as a theme. Babylonian, egyptian, korean, russian, german... Pick something and spin it.

I was lucky enough to study descriptive geometry in 10th-12th grade, it helped a lot to draw perspective but really, references help a lot.
You can even reference from other manga, it's not like the readers care that this scenery looks a tad similar to that scenery.

>>3201843
(cont. of last post)

Even official manga like Eromanga Sensei basically copy their own drawings, they have deadlines to meet. (This is chapter 29)

>>3201853
I think she forgot her boob padding later on.

>>3201853
Anon, the difference is that manga artists and their assistants take those photos, and then they use them however they want in the manga. Copying backgrounds from other manga is plagiarism.

>>3201877

I'm not saying straight up copy other manga.
I'm talking about looking at background elements from manga and inserting them into your own, use them as reference.

"I want a bridge on this scene but I can't find the right way to draw it."
" I do remember this manga had a bridge here, oh so this is how the artist drew it, pipes here, cables there, let me take that into my drawing."

And then later that same artist could recicle his own previous drawing into another scene if the angle and position is the same.

Backgrounds aren't super essencial to a manga, the idea you want to convey feom the backgrounds is the essential part.
Show a bookshelf, a table, people around the character, okay he's in a library, no need to add that much effort into every panel, the reader is not stupid.

>>3201853
>copy their drawings
>look completely different
confusedblackman.jpg

>>3202162
If you do not see any similarity between those two poses you shouldn't be sticking around on an art thread.
One of them is obviously drawn quickly while the other has more attention to character proportions but it's clear the artist used the same rough sketch for both poses.

How does this look? Mori-kei style for those who care about /cgl/ shit.

>>3201887
>copying backgrounds from manga
>not copying backgrounds from user-uploaded photos from some random corner of the internet no one will ever find the source of
Step it up sempai. The nips just go outside and take photos and trace them, but we don't all live somewhere pretty, plus for fantasy worlds that won't work. Just learn how to draw basic shit and then throw it together. Bridge is usually just a curved set of stones, or some boards. Just get a photo reference of something similar. Mountains once you learn how, you can do any mountain. Texture and feel are more important than construction when it comes to scenery.

>>3201853
Pretty ridiculous. It takes like 15 mins tops to draw a character. How lazy can you be?

>>3202210

I see potential on the lower right drawjng, the upper right face makes it seem likr you have gotten a hold on drawing the eyes but the middle left one just shows you're relying on simbol drawing for the eyes, which one did you draw first?

Also not really laziness, they have a week to come up with a whole chapter or else their company basically hangs them by their eye sockets.

>>3202210
>Pretty ridiculous. It takes like 15 mins tops to draw a character.
If you want to draw a straight stiff figure with no dynamic pose or angle, sure.
And you forgot that mango is more than drawing characters. Panelling, camera angles, backgrounds, tones...why do you think experimented mangaka still need assistants and yet barely meet deadlines sometimes with simplistic pages?

>>3202210
Show me some expression or posing/situation and I'll tell you it's good. Otherwise it's clean but you're limited. (not trying to annoy you, just pointing at what eventual weakness i see, also sorry for my terrible english)

>>3202227
>simbol drawing for the eyes

I mean...not really but okay, if you mean it looks bad I'll practice more. My main concern is getting a repeatable style that looks okay in ink. Here's a random page of random manga. It's not exactly an artistic masterpiece. Just need something that works. Essentially I want a style that I can use methodically, from any angle, that looks consistent, and is simple enough to draw somewhat quickly. It's hard to get "clean" looking lines. If you look at published manga, even if the art is technically bad, it all has a finished look, and I want to get that. For now I just want something that works so I can get started. Most manga start out looking like shit and get artistically better over time, that's the point. So the only question I care about is, "Does it look okay and get the point across?" What I can take from that is my construction is too sloppy and it doesn't look natural. I'm not chasing perfection, I just want somethign practical.

>>3202261
Start with the fundies, then begin building your style by copying artists you like.

>>3202261
Sorry, what I was trying to convey was that in the upper drawing you showed an understanding of how the eye worked on that angle but the middle drawing didn't show that understanding.

Also I get what you mean, you want a solid style, easy to work with but not aiming for perfection.
I read this comic, "me, dad and the beard gorilla", its style is pretty solid, simple and still conveys its message well.

>>3202210
Face on the left looks wonky and the arms are too long.

>>3202261
Even if you're not aiming for perfection it also depends what type of story you draw. Don't skip over other aspects like gesture, perspective, "camera" angles/focal lengths if you wanna draw something that's close to Jump's standards. That was an example, but just to say : look at what type of manga you wanna do and what specific skills are polished in those.
Otherwise yeah, your drawings kind of pass but I feel like you would be limited if I asked to draw some types of poses or expressions, might just be me.

>>3202210
Your confidence seems a bit ahead of your skill, but it's an acceptable level of draftsmanship if you deliver a good story.

What tools do they use to make panels ? Google didn't really gave me an answer.
I personally just use ruler.

>>3196395
You need to be an engineer. Drawing panels is fucking hard.

Do mangaka ink their stuff already with the speech bubbles drawn on it?

I can see how not drawing the details underneath would save some time, but it feels like it'd be a little confusing to execute.

>>3202553
You can literally just white out the underdrawing if it's in a speech bubble

>>3202557
You can do a lot of things, be it literally or figuratively, my young bee. What I'm asking is about common practice.

>>3202559
I think what you'll commonly see is a mangaka sketch a whole page and get their composition/flow correct to see where their speech bubbles fit best.
Then they place their bubbles and continue inking what will appear in the final draft.

Or they'll sketch the illustrations and bubbles at the same time instead of trying to fit bubbles on the page.

>>3201614
There's this thing called Google Maps, anon.

>>3202611
Don't you hate when that fucking Google car comes into your bathroom and takes pictures of your toilet? At least they blurred my face.

>>3202801
Well unless that Google Car™ ran over your hands you could still use them to check other references through Google Images™

If you read author comments, some of them complain that balloon placement is another art form.

>>3200949
>WE WUZ ANIME N SHIET
funniest shit I've read in a long time.

I have a question about two approaches I've seen in comics as well as in manga when it comes to paneling.

There are some manga that are basically made like story boards, there is not much variance in the panel composition and the panels seem like a foto of a specific moment in a scene, different angles make it seem more cinematic and sometimes a sequence is captured in several panels, for example I am a Hero or One Punch Man.

While there is another approach which seem empraces the paper format and tries to be cerative about the panel compossion, it is aware of it and use even the letters to convey action and emotions, the position of the characters seem mostly unnatural and are made this way to show the reader what is happening without having to use dificult angles, like most cape comics.

What does /ic/ prefer the most though?

>>3203212
I had a comic I cancelled for taking too much effort to make since I treated the angles like you would treat cinematography in a movie.

I prefer to treat my new stuff like a regular comic, slightly altering perspective and size to fit my character placement. I want the person to be bigger here, I do it without much regards to perspective (talking about regular quick-built panels, not well thought-out panels)

In any comic you have characters, a setting, tone, dialogue and behavior.
You put the character in a setting and adjust their pose to complement their behavior, dialogue and the tone. Outside elements like angle placement can affect the tone as well.

>>3203212
Read both Scott McCloud books and Framed Ink. Scott McCloud addresses your exact question in detail.

Short answer: comics aren't cinema, they are their own medium and panel composition is very important. That said, various styles of transitions exist, and they all create different effects, moment to moment transitions like those in cinema are perfectly valid in comics and serve a purpose. Finally, time in comics is strange, and very distinct from other mediums. There are things comics can do than no other medium can.

>>3196395
I feel your pain anon. Making manga is probably one of the hardest artforms, you're in control of fucking everything and not only that, once you get good you're working under a schedule.

You need to be a researcher as well.
You need to choose what uniform to use. What school. What bad they use. A lot of japanese things.

>>3203631
Bag*

How do I learn to draw specifically eastern style illustrations? I've got sketching manga style that I'm checking out right now. I remember years ago I actually brought some How to draw manga book and have no idea where it went, probably thrown away.

>>3203653
>probably thrown away
Good, those guides are never good.
Just have a healthy share of learning realism and exploring styles you like from other authors.

>>3203791
exactly, studying realism helps you understand the shapes of the body in various angles, while aiming your style towards what you want will help you apply it to the realism you study.

>>3201392
I think your problem is that you are focusing too much on the characters skin color. Just write a cute character then make their skin dark. Don't over think it.

>>3201425
I think you shouldn't worry about it that much. If you can afford to have more than one black female character in your story just make sure they have a variety of hair styles represented from natural to straight to fucking Yugioh its anime there's lots of things you can do.

As for the natural hair thing stylization is your friend here. Most people with straight hair don't have hair like anime characters so with a little creativity you can stylize natural hair to make it not boring.

>>3201768
Staples or Office Depot will do it. Most Xeroxes will have a bed of at least 12x17. Make sure you tell them its exact dimensions unless you like to crop your shit anyway. Uh... You're looking at about 25 cents a page for scanning if you do it with them.

>>3203845
Great example of a black character in anime, for two large reasons.

I have no idea what school uniform should I use.
Do most authors just make one themselves ?

>>3205182
Obviously

I've had an idea in my mind for 5 years but I only recently last year started any form of serious production, there were attempts in the years beforehand but they never felt adequate until now. I'm not sure if I want to share what I have currently but I have a drawing from 2 years back when the concepts and designs were vastly different, it was really edgy back then.

>>3205866
The only problem I see with this is... it feels like you put a bunch of elements in a blender. Some look grim, like the skull, some look dolled-up (the anime characters), some look just amateur (the monsters).
More than anything, it lacks internal consistency.

If the concept is edgy or not, that's no problem if you can present it in an enticing way.

>>3206661
Correct my dude, it was two years ago and the problem was I didn't give anything a consistent theme, I didn't go through any design process for the poster and just drew whatever looked cool. Now I'm working harder for a more consistent product so that it won't have too diverse of a shift of tone.

>>3201810
I hope it all goes well

>>3203845
>>3204842

Shes cute. Added to backlog.

>>3208210
Thanks, I'm doing fine now but still doing it 16 hours a day

>>3208221
post page

>>3201853
>>3202162
>>3202201
Considering artists can literally just copy paste their art, redrawing the same pose isn't really laziness but a lack of imagination.

>>3208228
I'm still doing the character designs and I'm joing >>3204766 so I can't post it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Gnx-TEMJ10q_si3wrAN51NvmYHnSCyeSpkTzZRGoCg/edit?usp=sharing

I'm still struggling with the writing!!!!!!

>>3208250
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Gnx-TEMJ10q_si3wrAN51NvmYHnSCyeSpkTzZRGoCg/edit?usp=sharing

That was bad. Brandon Sanderson has some lectures on youtube you should watch.

You should also join a discord writing group like the reddit one.

Your idea is pretty generic. You should read a book called American Gods.

>>3208260
Why the fuck would I read American Gods? And explain why the idea is generic .

Stop making your manga so dark. This applies to a bunch of people ITT. Shading, toning, etc. used to be a whole lot of fucking work in manga (and still is if done traditionally) so manga tends to be light.

>>3208280
Are you high?

>>3200849
What is this picture trying to say? i'm not getting it

>>3208487
It's saying you're retarded

>>3208422
He's right though. Manga makes heavy use of white space for contrast, and heavy screentones are typically used in very realistic manga.

>>3196395
FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, YOU AREN'T FUCKING JAPANESE, STOP SAYING MANGA, YOU'RE MAKING A SHITTY FUCKING WEEB INSPIRED TRASH.

>>3208508
Hey look, it's this autist again.

How's it feel to know that even Japanase mangaka disagree with you?

>>3202553
A lot of them do - the speech bubbles are part of the composition, and are equally important as the backgrounds/environments.

>>3208506
Also if you're planning on printing your own doujins it's dumb to cover your entire comic in dark screentones, lots or mangas have thought-out white spaces where they don't actually need shadow.

Making manga is not only thinking about making art, it's about saving time and money while still being good, that's what makes it hard.

>>3208619
Pretty much.

In manga. What is bordering. Is it important ?
I have a 8.5 x 11 paper which I'll be scanning later on. Then after that I'll finish it digitally.