/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>3190340
No that makes no sense. What the fuck is an innate artistic talent? Art is a skill like any other, learn it by doing it.

Do professional swimmers have an innate swimming talent?
No, they are typically exposed at a young age and exist within an environment that encourages the practice of swimming. Then when they become 21 or so, they're seen as gods because that's the time when they're actually adults outside of school.

Same thing for artists. Even the most skilled draftsman has gone through easily hundreds of thousands of shitty drawings over their lifetime. The thing is, they only show the victories, which implies 'talent.'

Pic related is Jaime Jones btw

>>3190340
I think "talent" just comes down to recognizing your mistakes and learning from them.

>>3190340

Yes there is a talent in art as with literally anything. First of all, let's take out the most obvious traits. If you are completely blind, you can't fucking draw. I am 90% sure that is the case.

If you do, it would be probably in the form of movement stimulated drawing that children naturally do at earlier stages of development.

Further reading: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/10/the-hidden-meaning-of-kids-shapes-and-scribbles/543873/?utm_source=feed

Also, depending on learning disability or form of aphantasia (e.g. complete lack of visual-spacial skills), you have an objective disadvantage.

Let's move on to things that will (or at least theoretically should) give you an edge or disadvantage in art.

1) Genetic Visual-Spatial intelligence (not an extreme factor but can effect how fast your acquisition of the fundamentals)
2) Genetic Visual Long/Short term memory - see above
3) Hyperthymesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthymesia))
4) Various schizotypal traits may affect creativity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nje--J7fsfw&feature=youtu.be))
5) Arm Dexterity - While unlikely, you could have conditions in which you can't control your hand well
6) Self Control (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0093854808326992))
7) ADHD without treatment obviously affects your ability to study
8) Are you a savant?

Won't be surprised if there is more. The importance of these factors are beyond me however (raw disabilities are going to impact you much larger than say - genetic visual-spacial intelligence as there is some evidence that your brain does develop as you learn art http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26925271))

>>3190485
https://coachrickswimming.com/2014/11/01/can-short-swimmers-compete-at-the-highest-levels/

Overall there are a lot of variables to look at, but it is delusional to think there is genetic advantage one could have in art. This isn't to say professionals or even the masters are talented.

>>3190535
Ignoring all of this, the real question really is the relevance of this talent? I don't really know, but I'd like to meet someone who was able to form extremely accurate schema of objects from birth.

That's it for me for now. That thread about north east asians being able to draw without construction is humorous but I am not going to bite for now.

When are you faggots ever going to give me something insightful to think about? Fucking hell.

>>3190485
Yeah it's not like athletes that excel in a certain sport have a specific body morphology or anything. It all boils down to hard work and dedication.

>>3190535
>don’t be blind
>don’t be missing a chromosome

There, you’re talented. You can fill in the rest with hard work, same as how you learned to read and write.

>>3190535

Have nothing constructive to say, just wanted to say that I like this post and it seems to be the most reasonable argument by far.

asking "is talent real" is on the same level as asking "what if an asteriod hits earth tomorrow?"

don't worry about things out of your control. you can'd decide who does or doesn't have talent even if such a thing DID exist, but you can control how hard you work and the things you draw.

>>3190340
If you practiced hand to eye co-ordination prior to taking up art sure

>>3190550
This. It's like saying "everyone can beat usain bolt at 100m sprints if they work hard enough." The guys he runs against train just as hard to get to the Olympics, but bolt has a special something that gives him that edge. It's hard work + talent on top. Talent, aptitudes, preferences, a good eye, a gut feeling, all of these things are very real. So yes i would say innate talent does exist, for very many things

>>3193655
>drawing is the same as a fucking sport

No. Literally everyone can learn to draw if they fucking work at it, provided they aren’t literally brain damaged, retarded or crippled (and even a lot of THOSE guys can pull it off).

Everyone who says they tried hard or did a bunch of grinding but still can’t draw is a lying, lazy whore. An atelier would straighten their shit out.

>>3193676
Yes, anyone can learn to draw. Draftsmanship is a skill - skills are taught. Talent is not. Talent is ephemeral, but it's there, it's what separates a guy in his basement plunking out sour notes on a guitar, and Eddie Van Halen. It's that "extra" that separates the pedestrian from the masterwork. It's not a matter of doing enough work, or plodding through repetition - no matter how long i practice scales, I will never be a virtuoso on the piano. I don't have the talent.

Skills are taught. Talent isn't. Talent can be raw, untamed, or refined and developed. It can be dormant, or overwhelming. Talent is in the head - skill is in the hands. Skill is the effort, talent is the design. Without the design, the skill is just repetitious plodding. But lacking skills, the talent is still there, as ideas and imagination.

Anyone who says talent doesn't exist? Probably doesn't have any.

>>3193703
This post is a bunch of pretentious art school jibberjabber.

>>3193710
Booo hoo hooo

What's it like, posting on an art board, without talent? I don't go to tennis forums and tell people how to play, when I've never played tennis. Must be wierd, that you're compelled to tell people who have something, that they don't. That's like, epic range butthurt. Your life must really suck.

>>3193676
I know, anyone can get pretty decent at drawing. Talent only matters at the high levels of play. it's why people shit on those who ask about talent here as beginners, talent doesn't matter as much at the beginning, so there's no need to worry or whine about it.

HOWEVER: to say talent doesn't exist is dumb. it does exist but most /beg/s need not worry about it. talent only matters at the extremely high end levels of competition, where shit comes down to literal microseconds or minute details that end up making a big difference.

>>3193793
>talent only matters at the extremely high end levels of competition, where shit comes down to literal microseconds

Illustration doesn’t work like this at all.

>>3193703
Exactly. Some ppl are just born with it.

>>3190535

This is purely skill based advantages, plus it means barely anything, if not nothing at all. If a guy with most advantages would grow up in a deserted place with no society, he would have no advantage at what we call art what so ever. in Everything comes with practice.

Who says a blind artist cant become famous because he somehow feels the paint and can create beatiful artworks without ever seeing them?

Who says a guy with shaking hands cant draw with his feet?

Who says you cant use your disability as a drive to proceed?

>>3193703
depends what you mean by taught.

If someone from the age of 5 plays the piano everyday, or all their friends play piano, or they happen to be the son of a famous pianist, then ofc they will have a completely different take on playing the piano, that will be hard to match if someone at lets say age 22 starts out playing the piano, coming from a family with no musical talent. But everything is still taught.

>>3190340
I believe that with every skill there will always be people who are born with innate skills that ultimately help them become better with whatever their interests might be. I remember when I was younger, maybe eight, really young, I was left alone in our neighbors kitchen while my dad went to do something I don't remember. I had a notepad and there was a Donald Duck magnet on the neighbor's fridge. So I drew Donald Duck just as I saw it. My dad came back and I showed him the picture pretty proud and he actually got mad thinking that I traced it and was trying to say I drew it. I actually had to redraw it in front of him for him to believe me.
I believe I was born with an innate skill towards copying. But I don't think that's much of a talent but other people who don't have it think it is. I have such a hard time drawing from memory. I've just recently had to start studying fundamentals again so that my 'from memory' 'original' artworks don't come out as trash.

>>3190340
My answer would be 'maybe'. There are art prodigies who seem to have just had a harder work ethic than anyone else, like Akiane Kramerick and then there are prodigies who do seem to have a special ability at memory, like Stephen Wiltshire, but he also still had to learn to put pen/pencil to paper and draw what he knew from his insane memory, so there's always some work involved regardless, when it comes to art.

When it comes to music it might be a bit easier, I think, if you have a few gifts like perfect pitch, you could probably learn to play the piano as fast as the rest of us learn to type on a keyboard.

you know where every single note is and exactly what it will sound like before you touch it, Then all you'd have to learn is the manual dexterity, which is the easy part for most of us. (Except for a few extra fast/difficult songs and techniques.)

>>3194643
I am the same way anon. My talent lies in copying and drawing from observation, not the other way around. I struggled for years drawing from imagination, until I realized that drawing from imagination is the same as drawing from observation, just from memory. Once I understood this I was able to train my visual memory in the same way that my eyes work.

>>3190340

Yes but born talents can stagnate and regress if you don't train them. Those born to be artists get a headstart in competition but they still have to keep going forward like everyone else.

>>3194229
>Who says a blind artist cant become famous because he somehow feels the paint and can create beatiful artworks without ever seeing them?

>Who says a guy with shaking hands cant draw with his feet?

>Who says you cant use your disability as a drive to proceed?

Hey all of these are possibilities in your dream world. Assuming if one can attain such skill under these conditions, it doesn't change the fact that they'd have to work orders of magnitude harder to get these skills.