/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

ESSENTIALS:

>>>/ic/thread/3023643
Links to many art books including as Keys to Drawing (Dodson), Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain (Edwards), Perspective Made Easy (Norling), Color and Light (Gurney), The Vilppu Drawing Manual (Vilppu) and How to Draw (Robertson).

>http://ctrlpaint.com
A website dedicated to understanding the basics and process of digital painting, based in Adobe Photoshop. Library of over 200 free videos.

>http://quickposes.com
Free pose library to practice drawing the human figure (as well as a portrait library). Draw at your own pace or set a timer for quick gesture drawings.

>https://www.youtube.com/user/onairvideo
Croquis Cafe - Timed model poses.

>http://drawabox.com
Controversial yet helpful introductory course on the fundamentals of drawing with a focus on understanding the concept of form and thinking in a 3-dimensional mindset while you draw.

>Your local life drawing class
Life drawing is an indispensable tool in your art career. Do not be intimidated based on your skill level - there will always be someone worse than you and someone better than you. Use this opportunity to meet new artists for learning, critique, and growth.

this pits bottomless!

Posting here again
Where am i fucking up on the anatomy here? i know i'm fucking up somewhere but i'm not good enough to know where because i'm a piece of shit

>>3184684
Deltoid laterals are facing upward instead of the back.

>>3184685
the one on the right?

I drew a quick sketch of kaori from ylia because i remembered it.

Drew the archer again.

can i get some help with this? there are a few things i know are wrong with it, but i honestly have looked at it for so long i can't see all of them.
>short and stumpy snake
>lumpy dog anatomy

>>3184784
snakes nose doesn't look like that and he's missing his right eyebrow, you made D-Dog a pug for some reason, the torso needs to be longer, as do the arms slightly, not sure what you were going for with the bandana because it looks like he has two metallic growths out the side of his head, no depth in that at all, good job on minor details and clothing, make the arm look like the actual arm, because that doens't even look like the arm of Jehuty looks like something you made up.Good luck anon. Use a reference next time and start by practicing Venom's face. And if you know whats wrong why ask in the first place, just ask for help next time you cuck.

Main point being you need to do a portrait of snake first to get his face right before tackling the rest because if you did this from a reference you dun goof'd son, its a different character.

>>3184787
thank you!! this is extremely helpful, i didn't notice a lot of these things. I hadn't unlocked the arm of jehuty yet so i thought i was making an original design lmao.

>>3184676
so that one guy said i should redraw the whole thing from scratch.. im gonna do that with next pic and just finish this current one with backgrounds and lights to have something to post on my gallery

>>3184676
Shouldn't we put good art in the OP?

>>3184751
Technically it's great but the character design is disgusting

>>3184834
i just realized how out of touch youre with reality when i looked at that pic and realized most of normal people wouldnt complain about that, its only flawed to you

>>3184836
I just don't like Western fantasy character design nigger, it's excessively ornamental and gaudy.

I wish I had a teacher. Anyway, what can I do to further improve my figures, other than draw more?

How do I draw cute girls

>>3184848
You need to sign your drawings and put your pencil in the photo. If not, it's not really a cute girl.

I'm trying to do observational sketches. For whatever reason, when it comes to boxes/in general. I for the life of me can NOT draw the angles of the receding lines correctly. I angle my pencil to the angle of the receding line to do it correctly. And yet, when I tilt my sketchbook/paper straight up, it looks NOTHING like object I am drawing(in this case, a game case). Why the hell is drawing on a flat desk so different than drawing with an upright canvas/paper/etc?

I'm getting really frustrated. I am checking the angles of the case with my pencil and everything yet it's ALWAYS wrong..

How can I make cel-style shading pop out more, look less "flat"?

>>3184862
This is a guess but try darkening the shadows and adding some highlights

>>3184866
>only now I realize I hadn't done that step
28 days after drawing it. Not bad.
How does this one look?

>>3184862
Art is all a references game. Whether you want to draw Char's MSN-06S Sinanju, a literal aeroplane, Rick and Morty, Pokemon or /m/echa I make sure that I keep a sorted references folder for everything.

I recommend:
https://www.artstation.com/kudaman
all the official aldnoah bluray wallpapers which I can't link to because it's considered spam
all the art off https://takayamatoshiaki.deviantart.com/
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8nqrR
Also the Gundam Versus art is pretty sweet and you can use that to figure out how to shade your stuff.
And Scott Robertson's How to Render: The Fundamentals of Light, Shadow and Reflectivity

Then do the book, find more references, study how the references render and then once you've learned to render the object in 3D simplify your way to victory.

>>3184873
A lot more 3 dimensional, the perspective on this one is more favourable to that too. The centre of the body (fuselage?) looks spot on

>>3184881
Thanks for the recs, I'll make sure to make a thorough reading of that book.
While not all of that art is the sort of thing I'm aiming for, I believe my problem lies in not knowing how to approach more painterly styles (which I suppose will be covered by the book) or break the monotony in cel-style, even if not to the extent of that Thunderbolt screenshot.
>>3184883
Thank you. Technically the main difference between the two, other than the angle and shading, is that I haven't gone full autistic with panneling with the MiG-31, maybe it looks less "clinical" that way.

>>3184886
Proper cell style requires a lot of patience and lineart autism and less /beg/, but this is a drawing I whipped up yesterday that uses some of the elements of shading. The thunderbolt image is probably lineart = 1 layer, a flat layer underneath for the base colours, a multiply layer on top and a glow layer at the very least, probably they grouped multiple layers together.

>>3184533
Thanks man

I am grasping the concept of shading and values but how do I do it? How am I supposed to use my pen to have different

>>3184951
Pressure, layering, spacing etc.

>>3184676
1-2 min gestures

>>3184962
What site are you using?

>>3184962
that looks preddy gud desu, i struggle to get a stickfigure of a pose done in 30 seconds

>>3184676
>tfw ywn be good at art
>tfw ywn be good at making music
>barely good at programming

how frustrating

>>3184968
ywn?

>>3184970
you will never

Drawing of Goblin Princess. I was told to go back to /beg/, they're not wrong.

This is was a side thing while I'm trying to delve into anatomy chapters of Vilppu Manual.

>>3184962
stop fucking constructing figures, the whole point of figures is to get a loose drawing depicting the shape and energy of the model, constructing is literally retarded, they ALWAYS fail

>>3184985
Post your work

>>3184962
How important are contours to figure drawing?

>>3184909
Thank you for doing this, much appreciated and very helpful.
>lineart autism
I think I might have enough of it, considering the attention I tend to give panneling and the like.

>Repost from last thread
>Day 14
I didnt really want to add the left arm so I kinda just slapped it on quickstyles. everything else is intentional.

>>3184964
I'm using hyper angle 2: Men. Figure drawing sites have really boring poses.
>>3184965
Thanks, understanding anatomy helps with speed.
>>3184985
LOL
>>3185019
This is just my opinion. For contours, I don't indicate it unless I understand what's causing the contour. I try to limit contours to anatomical landmarks such as the ribcage, the deltoid, the scapula, etc.

Some landscapes

>>3184962
I am not really feeling the flow in these, I am by no means amazing at gestures, but these look very stiff to me

>>3184676

Does anyone know where I can find large image dumps of different things like, animals, vehicles, etc. Mostly for quick 1 min gesture drawings, instead of having to download them one at a time through google?

I already have the corquis cafe models but I'm really looking for a large collection of animals and other stuff besides people

Not a real fan of sites either. get the same image too much

>>3184962
those look really good. I always get distracted by details and contours so I'm trying a bigger brush

>>3185130
Thanks for the crit. Is it the same with these? >>3182610
thanks

Trying out this black and white style, any opinions?

>>3185166
yeah these look better. I havn't seen what you are referencing in either (if you are referencing). To my eye, I think it looks stiff because there isn't much of an angle difference in the shoulders and the hips, and the limbs look like two cylinders, instead of a curve with the shapes imposed over the top

How the fuck do I do human construction. Everyone seems to have a different shape skeleton thing and mine always looks retarded

>>3185183
Because it's easier to just build your own as it'll be how you see it the best. It's easy though. Just boxes.

I did the stravinsky exercise and it came out every bit as retarded as i expected.

>>3185210
mah nigga

Any tips to get decent proportions while drawing gestures?
I draw too big for the page, my torsos usually turn out too long

>>3185216
just do more gestures. try too see what you are currently doing, and consciously adjust it. maybe redraw the same one with the proportions you want, thats what I would do

>>3184784
Do a study in the image in black and white and make your reference black and white then once you've mastered that, you can easily apply colour over. It's a quicker and easier way to achieve a more similar look to your image.

>>3184848
I hate to reference this, but Loomis draws the pretiest girls in town. So just to begin with if you're a beginner for construction and to learn the basics use Fun with the Pencil, then follow on with the Loomis Heads book. But that is the long way, if you want to jump straight right in without reading I suggest https://youtu.be/qcIvcY9dEDw he's tutorials could help you draw pretty girls in no time anon.

>>3184858
Ok it's advisable when drawing to have a tilted surface so basically lay down your sketchbook on a another book to create a tilted surface or draw while holding your sketchbook up or just draw in masses of tonal values instead of lines and boxes.

>>3185183
This night help you anon https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9LugJ4DrjW9aWlGRHQ4b2FuUTg/view?usp=drivesdk as well as this https://youtu.be/NrFibd6749A remember to practice these until they're engrained in your head, then go to pimterest or something and search figures and try using the methods you've learnt in order to construct the figures

>>3184684
The arm on our left...the forearm, upper arm, and shoulder aren't consistent. If the lateral delt is facing up or back (as it is) then the upper arm should be rotated with it (i.e. bicep pointing up) and then the forearm rotated with that. As it is, the peak of the bicep is pointing down and forward and is connecting to the back of the armpit instead of front.

Breddy good otherwise.

>>3185215
Laughed when I saw this comment, all I can do is thank you for reading the sticky and wish you the best of luck moving on. If you HAVE time try giving this book a read Harold Speed the Science and Practice of Drawing https://archive.org/download/practicescienceo00speerich/practicescienceo00speerich.pdf its more suited for bed time story reading

>>3185216
There's a method called the formulaic drawing method, you should give it a look. I think it's also called the Riley Method here's something that could help you with the proportions https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9LugJ4DrjW9aWlGRHQ4b2FuUTg/view?usp=drivesdk

>>3184689
Well, the character's right or the viewer's left.

>>3184684

Awkward position... Then again all american comics have faggy poses.

>>3184836

Then be satisfied with normies hugbox and stagnate.

>>3184676
I feel like I should draw more from reff but it always feels so boring.

I did kinda like trying to make this skuff from reff.

>>3184836
Most normal people wouldnt complain but they probably wouldnt be all that impressed either.

>>3185258
Find more interesting references.

>>3185260
do small sketches like this from reff work, or should you try to take alot of time on each reff drawing?

>>3184985
>vilppu constructs figures
>hampton constructs figures

Well, but I guess anon probably knows better!

>>3185210
Man I just love seeing people do the Stravinsky exercise, kek.

is this how you learn to draw something? just do it over and over until you magically get it?

>>3185281

You can do short sessions but if you can, do a long one. Personally I learn way more doing long sessions.

Take your time. But if it's too boring or too hard just stop and rest then do another take or use another ref. If you're not mentally in it you're not going to learn anything so don't torture yourself.

>>3185301
You also open a horse anatomy book and study the diagrams. Note down muscle insertion points and rotate basic forms in space with anatomy sculpted on top

>>3185301

It's about seeing rather than guessing. At least it's that way in my case. I actually draw just like you. I love gestural drawing and I use it to fill the canvas with marks until I can see the shapes. From there I just refine it further until it look like a thing..

>>3185303
thx for the tips anon :)

>>3185281
You need to get all the observational practice you can get.
Shorter drawings (5-10min) will help you get better at getting basic proportions down.

Longer drawings (20-60 min) will give you the time to break down the structure of what you are drawing.

I suggest you do more faster observational drawings for now. Try drawing with straight(ish) lines. This will help you get more structure and accuracy. You keep going over your lines too many times. This flattens your drawings because every line, whether they are suppose to define something further back or in highlight, looks the same.

>>3185308
thx anon, I get what ur saying about the lines, I'll try to do some nice short reff drawings with straight lines soon.

>>3185301
It's a cycle of drawing something from imagination, then correcting what you drew through studies.

Some in depth examples of this:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfIj5vb7oSY
>http://prrb.tumblr.com/post/30177790499/shrimp-method
>https://tamberella.deviantart.com/art/How-to-Draw-ANYTHING-594318716

>>3185311
i could watch sycra if he didnt always sound like hes about to cry

I watched a few cntrl paint videos and can confirm it is not a meme

>>3185312
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_-Y4gdnU4
You're welcome

Hey thread, i'm trying to draw a comic idea i had years ago but honestly I have little to no idea how to make one. so for now I would like some critique on my panel/scene composition. this seems like the right thread to do it in at least.

>>3185349
there is no real coherent structure in terms of progression, I'm more so trying to get a feel for how to work with different sized panels and overall composition, so they are all more or less standalone.

>>3185351
honestly i'm up for /ic/ to open up a comic thread regularly 'cause that's an entirely discipline that has less to do with drawing ability itself...

as for your panels, you nailed down the critique yourself. try to make each panel fit most of the page as possible instead of letting negative space taking over...

>>3185308
anon-kun u forgot to fix the neck, it's wayyy too bent.

>>3185364
yea, i'm surprised i didn't see one already. might trying making one if someone else doesn't

>>3185210
this fucking shit is a waste of time, well if it's fun for u then do it lol.

>>3185168
are u going for a creepy/tattoo style or more of a refined/elegant one? the design itself doesn't pop out enough imo.

>>3184979
i never understood the boundaries between /beg/ and /draw/ or /alt/, maybe they just didn't like ur style? on a side note, what kind of critique are u looking for? other than the toes that need some work it looks pretty fine (though the aethestics are not really my thing...)

>>3184985
i get what this anon is trying to say, the one in a more extreme perspective have more of an awkward proportions than the ones that do not (especially at the back).
i would suggest that u take a look back at the bottom right and left ones... trying to get the proportions by getting the flowy lines first might be a better idea rather than adding on the anatomy later :). see >>3185130

i used to do my "gestures" like this; doing this will give u a general sense of form which is more suitable for 20-30 mins sessions but for 1-2 minutes of studies like what u aimed first i would suggest the flowy lines style as it catches the movement/proportions better. best of luck!

>>3185236
>>3184685
This any better? I made one of the legs a bit bigger too, they seemed disproportionate

>>3185250
Why be a dick dude
What do you consider a not faggy pose?

>>3185404
literally DUDE EYELIDS LMAO the philosopher

>>3185381
TowerGirlsPoster here.

>what kind of critique are u looking for?
I was just posting to see if anyone had any thoughts or specific pointers I guess.

>other than the toes that need some work it looks pretty fine
I'm not familiar with generalized anatomy yet. The knees, elbow, hands, breast, everything in general is pretty bad. But I just drew it to see where I am at and to draw for fun. This was honestly the first "finished" digital drawing I've done.

Thanks for the reply

i am
>>3182372
>>3182405
attempting imagination as suggested
i would like some critique please.

>>3185394
I tried fixing the delts and the pecs for you. Your pecs looked a little flat I also think the knees could be smaller.

What's the best way to learn color?

I've been going through
Color - The Theory and Practice of Painting

But it's so short I feel that it isn't enough
I want to get better at applying textures into backrounds

>>3185459
The same as anything else, the best way to learn is to go and do it yourself. Copy the methods of those that you want to emulate.

>>3184676

I too want to try drawing battoman

>>3185464

Where's the penis?

>>3185456
Thanks a lot dude, i'll work on it using your ~redline~ as reference
I have a question tho, won't his abs crunch in that position? And about the whole knee thing, wouldn't Wayne's legs be really buff?

Starting to go through Keys To Drawing

>>3185404

No comments, I probably took way too long on this though.

>>3185478
ref

>>3185473
Do you mean unidirectional for the whole piece or just per plane? I tend to start scribble shading to try and make the contours of the face more obvious

>>3185478
Yeesh, always disgusted with my work after I post it.

>>3185465
Honest to god forgot, but I drew some new ones.

>>3185478
Midriff should be thinner, face needs to be redone and the hair is a mess, hands look decent though. It'd look a lot better if you added some differentiation in the line weight instead of one uniform thickness

>>3185077

Start blocking in shadows and values in your landscapes instead of just drawing lines.

>>3185478
Also: don't simplify the nose so much, and a personal preference of mine, when you're doing a line drawing without rendering the large blank space will make the model appear wider than it would be rendered, it tends to look better if you exaggerate certain features to compensate - thinner waist/neck/knees/thigh gap etc. not really relevant when your drawing from ref but I thought I'd mention it

>>3185478
>>3185487

keep at it, I recommend doing a bunch of quick (1-3 minute )gesture drawings FROM REFERENCE. You will improve faster.

>>3185505
>>3185502
>>3185491

thanks lads, will take all of your comments into consideration

>>3185456
Is this any better anon? i tried not to go over your lines and just use it as a guide for me to understand the anatomy of his position
I also tried to make him a bit buff because Batman seems really weird to me if he's not a fucking tank
I feel i'm still fucking the legs up a bit :/

>>3185478
>>3185479
A man of taste
She's one of the best cosplayers

>>3185510
>No bulge

>>3185507

>>3185510
Not anon who redlined but nice to see that you've fixed the forearm as well.

BTW I sense sense something wrong with left gluteus/quad. Especially ass part (I think it should be upper?) But I'm not too sure about that.

>>3185510
Pecs and delta look much better, good job

low key proud. A friend said my stuff looks great with ink. yee.

I spent like a dozen hours on this

how did I do

>>3185524
taste aside, what kind of practice did you do to get that clean lines?

>>3184751
Im no expert, but the anatomy and perspective looks really wrong to me.

it looks like the right arm is forshortened so that the right hand and the bow are on the same plane but the muscles (or angle idk) on the arm suggest that it is also on that plane which combined makes the arm look gimpy.(also they both look a little too thin)

im not good enough to know whats wrong with the right leg but theres something wrong there too

the torso looks great and the head is fine if a little big

How do I stop trying to draw contours first

>>3185579
just don't draw them first
also why wouldn't you?

>>3185582
Because I read somewhere that I should use shapes first but shit never comes out like how I want.

>>3185565
it's okay if it was a 1-2 hour study. but it's not, sooooo try again.

>>3185583
do you mean construction?

>>3185588
Yes

>>3185579
gesture drawing? that's how i stopped

Tried to make the shading a bit more uniform.

What advice can /ic/ offer on "finishing" pieces? I've been grinding at fundies, learning to construct figures and basic forms, but I've now almost become out of touch with moving past that starting stage of development and find it pretty difficult to try continue developing a figure past the gesture/mannequin stage. I'm not sure if that's just because I'm not putting enough thought into what I'm drawing or because my construction is too messy, but how do I continue and get a "finished" look?

>>3185600
Five Stages of Drawing
-Sketch/Gesture
-Measure
-Mass/Form
-Light & Shadow
-Details

>>3185592
But my gesture drawing is retarded noodle people

>>3185568
I just doodled a lot when I was little, I didn't do any focused line training. Nowadays I look toward nipponese artists with great lines and try to do the same thing. It's hard though.

>>3185586
b-but it's still good right?

this was my first attempt at trying to seriously paint something

I'm shit
My arm hurts
I'm progressing like a fucking snail if any progress some days
I'm too old for this and I should give up
BUT I WON'T

>>3185565
How the fuck are you so good anon? Teach me how to color.

>>3185565
post ref if you used one

also, the metal in your study doesnt look as metallic as this fembot

>>3185635
Please don't meme on me

I want honest feedback

>>3185614
Also, you will have a hard time getting confident lines if you don't force yourself to do them. There have been many times where I've done ctrl z literally hundreds of times for one stroke, until my hand would do it right. I could have used mouse to transform the stroke into the desired shape but instead I just whipped myself into doing it over and over. I guess my point is that thoughtful mileage is important.

>>3185642
The shine on the metal depends on how polished it is. A dull metal won't really have much of a shine, and used armor may not be polished. Just want to give this disclaimer before they get possibly incorrect advice.

Hey guys, today was my first figure drawing session ever and these are my first figures...the professor wasn't much help so I'd like to get some crit, please. I'm new so I know I can be way better than this and I don't like where I'm at now.

Sorry about the poor pic quality. Shitty camera.

>>3185642
I used several different refs but this one by far was the one I studied the most

>>3185623
all beginners feel that way...

I was just wondering if i could get an opinion on which of these eyes seem better (and if you know any other simplistic eyes that may look better than these)

>>3185782
left looks better but you might as well be drawing a smiley face, this drawing is way too simple

>>3185783
Allright

>>3185455
What's your process doing these?

What can I do to draw the postures more dynamically?

I recently got a graphics pad to draw on, but I find that I can't just lightly drop tones down with brushes, it's either completely pitch black or nothing shows up at all. I've tried dicking around with the sensitivity on my graphics pad but nothing really helps.

Anyone else run into this? How do I resolve it? What am I doing wrong?

>>3185258
I like it, though it does look like you used the reference. You can only get better from here, here and there try draw it out of your hard and see what happens and add some funny stuff like a top hat for example. May make it more fun

>>3185327
I have something better anon, he offers various great tutorials on rendering stuff https://www.youtube.com/user/zinlimpresent

>>3185455
Anon, have you done some mini thumbnails before hand before going straight into the technical bits. Thumbnails as in mini doodles (no technique shit, preschool drawings ) just to first get your ideas on paper and then decide the best one and only then bring the drawing to life with all your shapes and stuff

>>3185804
Install drivers and pull out the manual for whatever program you're using.

>>3185459
Have you mastered your values yet? As in can you draw pretty realistic stuff with just black and white. If you can, then colour comes easy, as you make use of a gradient mask https://youtu.be/kxqnXn1NGYI

>>3185799
Read a book.

>>3185494
Draw in tones not lines helps

>>3185565
Like it, has that illustrator look. Are you aiming for realism, where's the reference anon?

>>3185565

>>3185635
Do you want to learn colour the quick way or the long way anon?

>>3185643

>>3185809
i did that when i first got it

>>3185660
Like it, what are you aiming for in your figure drawing old realistic stuff like the old masters or just to know the method behind it and how to execute it better.

>>3185813
I was aiming for realism somewhat, the reference is here >>3185688

I just changed it up a lot just so I wouldn't be straight up copying it

>>3185814
quick way pls, it takes me hours to color anything with any degree of quality

>>3185815
Program? And all the default brushes act the same way? post sample.

>>3184676
what do you guys think of this hot garbage?

im watching the lord of the rings and i want to draw rohirrim but it is too hard

>>3185565

these would be my quick suggestions

How's my anatomy? I tried to create do some poses more interesting than my usual standing-with-one-hand-on-hip stance. I don't know if I got the baseball bat pose right because twisting forms are really confusing.

Would it be good practice to watch fantasy movies, and while watching, pause every few minutes and try to redraw the scenes or something in them?

>>3185848
You're just lying to yourself if you think you'll keep that up for long and not just use it as an excuse to watch movies without feeling bad. Just look up movie stills instead if you honestly want to do that.

>>3185848
if the shots are actually great and you've already FINISHED that movie to begin with. otherwise what's the point of removing immersion by pausing every 2 minutes?

How long would it takes for a absolute beginner like me to be as good as Romulo? What are the things that I should work on? What should I know beforehand?

>>3185844
Do you mind if I add some details?

>>3185844
The one on the left looks retarded especially the head, the one on the right is good other than the leg closest to us (distance from teh knee to the foot)

>>3185896
the fundamentals, like everyone else

good luck

>>3185805
tried it with these 2.

>>3185844
the one of the left looks like he has the body of a lady without the breasts.

what do you think of this face fellas

>>3185915
You're lazy. Try harder.

>>3185807
i thought about it and decided not to. i prefer to just focus hard and think about where the boxes of construction go.
>>3185790
imagine the figure, build box one then box two then everything else.

>>3185915
The form of the head looks symmetrical at least

>>3185252
>Implying anything the guy said would help this person improve

It's almost as useless if not just as useless as a hugbox. Too many retards confusing this shit for actual critique.

First of all, I know that the default /ic/ answer for these kinds of questions is "just do it". I'm trying my best this time to not ask for a perfect solution, though.

Probably what I struggle the most with is the fuzziness of the instructions for drawing, and the lack of milestones, criteria or guidelines. I'm a methodical person, and while I can understand the theory I see while reading (Loomis, Bargue, Right Side of the Brain), I need places to start.
I'm comfortable with routines, guidelines and clearly delineated goals, and while I know I can't get good or even decent without making some compromises, I'm curious to hear if there are any other people who feel the same.
Does anyone here have enough experience that they can give a rough measure - just that will do - of what fundamentals are the best to start with, which books tend to give the best results and how much practice the "average" student takes?
I know myself well enough to know that if I start just like that, without someone's input, I'll despair at my lack of progress first and then work myself into carpal tunnel syndrome, stress and no progress at all to compensate.
The thing I lack the most is some kind of fundamental guideline, because without a perspective it seems like everyone else is hurrying ahead of me.

>>3185896
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=penYF3oehzg

Well I dunno but maybe this can be helpful

>>3185948
It was that way for me at first too. I tried my best to find some way to turn books like Loomis' into assignments that I could complete, but it just never really worked for me because it felt like the blind leading the blind.
So instead I set a goal for myself, to help me get a better grasp on where I should start and what I be doing. I decided that in a year, I would get really good at drawing people and faces. Anything beyond that can be dealt with after that year.
That didn't really resolve the whole guidelines thing entirely though, so I decided that I shouldn't think about it in terms of... degrees of learning. As long as I just keep doing the work, eventually it'll get so easy that I won't even have to think about it when I end up taking my drawings one step further.
And that's exactly what I did. I started drawing figures from reference, and I started with only doing linework at first, but then eventually my line drawings went quickly enough that I just started adding value, and so on.

...Basically, "just do it" really is the best solution, but for people who need something to focus on, it's best in my experience to just not worry about all the fundamentals at once. Just pick one, and tackle it one step at a time as you gain confidence and skill.

>>3185910
Yeah I can see that. I do primarily draw women, so it makes sense why it'd turn out that way.

Jesus Christ Burne Hogarths books are tough to get trough.

crit my senpai?

>>3186008
lol, I meant 'crit my family'*

this video helped me a lot to better understand the process of figure drawing from reference. before i was a bit dumbfounded about how you were supposed to turn the gesture into the more finished drawing. maybe it will help you guys too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt_-H4H2EYU

im too sleepy to draw today

>>3186021
reported

I fucked up a lot. How do I unfuck?

>>3186030
By drawing it again.

>>3185455
>>3182372
>>3182405
>>3185933
crits pls

Can someone explain the difference between brush blending modes and layer blending modes

>>3185958
In my case, though, I have a hard time keeping on working if I can't see progress. I know I won't progress from day to day, so that's why I wanted some kind of day plan or drawing program so that I can be secure in knowing that other people have learned the same way before me.
This is probably mostly a self-confidence problem (but it's not like people here don't have experience, I figure), but I have the hardest time imagining that I will even learn. When I make a mistake, I see the mistake and only that, and I can't for the life of me even dare to think that I'll ever go anywhere or learn the slightest. It feels like if I take the pen from paper for just a moment, I'll forget everything I learned and have to start over from the beginning, if not somewhere lower than that.
I know that good artists learn from their mistakes, but that one thing has always been fucking hard for me. To me, there's nothing good in a mistake, only shame at getting full of myself. I have a hard time really "getting" the idea that everyone makes mistakes - it feels like I'm the only one fucking up again and again, when everyone else scoots through life, happy and competent with three different hobbies they're all proficient in.
I can't make a mistake without feeling like useless scum, and it's at the level where I get thoughts like "someone should just come in here and brain me for wasting society's time and money on thinking I can eclipse people with talent".
I'm sure you've dealt with people like this before, but I think I'm probably a hard tangle of psychological fuckups to solve.

>>3186104
> I'll forget everything I learned and have to start over from the beginning
Oh. It's you...
What could we possibly say to get you going? Like have you even started yet or are you incapacitated by fear of forgetting what you have yet figure out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYs_hSlfy0

So I'm doing Peter Han's tutorial and tracing some of my favorite artist's draws to get motivated, is that a good way to start?

>>3186123
Which tutorial

>>3186126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk

>>3186123
You tell us.

>>3186123
It's a good way to improve your lines and shapes if you're really trying to do them well.

>>3186118
It's demoralizing to not be able to draw a straight fucking line or construct a box in one-point perspective on the first try.
Grill a thousand school kids and nine hundred of them will be able to do that. If less of them can, there's a problem with parenting and education wherever you are.

>>3186157
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8pti-Swh_E

>Get a thousand school kids and nine hundred of them will be able to do that.
I seriously doubt that.

>>3186164
I need to exaggerate to really blow off steam.
I have a habit of over-escalating things in my head, so getting told off helps me remember that I'm going into severe hyperbole and everyone else is managing to do just fine under much the same circumstances. I'm one of those people who have to be told to knock it off once in a while to learn, and that's why I posted all this shit without filtering my thoughts (and also so people with the same habit could see it and learn).
I've at least gotten a bit of practice (and a lot of frustration) out if getting told off. I just have a very fucking hard time getting my head around the fundamental part of my worldview that a failure is inherently the absolute worst possibility and must be avoided at any cost whatsoever.
I know I could probably do more if I decided to get myself together, but I feel like absolute shit when I fail and start getting unable to concentrate.

>>3186192
That should be "(...) whatsoever isn't the right approach to dealing with a lot of things, and not the way everyone else thinks most of the time."

>>3185842
This is great, thanks

>>3186192
Forgive yourself. Make room for failure. Try again.

so i didnt draw this yet from sketch, im gonna do it with next piece.. half way done with background and stuff
how you like it so far

>>3186047
Brush blending mode applies the effect directly onto your current layer.
Layer blending mode applies the effect temporarily to whatever layer is placed underneath it

hey, here's a study from Narcos

>>3186298
I don't.

>>3186298
The hair shape doesn't make sense. The light white light thing on the bangs don't curve with the hair, and is instead flat. The lineart is either dirty or blurred, which looks bad

Holy fucking shit someone please kill me
I can't draw people. Better phrasing: I can draw humans, but I can't draw specific people. Everytime I draw someone I know, other person will say thar 'it doesn't look like him at all". Every fucking time. I can manage to draw a human reasonably well, though it won't resemble the person I'm observing. I can't manage it even with reference. Pls HELP

>>3186313
im gonna later on replace lineart with brighter versions of the base colour. i added more highlights to the hair after your feedback and later on will use a soft brush to create shape.

Thanks for the feedback. And yeah i know the hairs fucked up but since when anime wasnt?

>>3186350
Resemblance is achieved by nailing various measurements and shapes. If you're not achieving resemblance yet, it means you're not measuring and observing shape well enough.

Work through Keys again and do some portrait studies simultaneously. At this point you gotta grind.

>>3186365
Thanks a lot my man

Help I spent all of my drawing time throughout my life imitating Dragon Ball and now I can't do anything else without it having smears of Toriyama's/Yamamuro's art style over it
How do I do shit that looks original again

So I wanna git gud at drawing, I only recently started and the last time I drew was when I was like 12 probably. Anyway, I've basically just been copying other people's drawings. (Not tracing, to be clear.) I'll improve doing this right? I'll learn the Loomis shit later but honestly my linework is so shit right now I'd rather focus on that first.

Also, a lot of people say to do life drawings, is that still the case if I just wanna draw cartoon sketches?

I wanna be able to make generic fantasy landscape paintings. Anyone got some good resources for that?

>>3186391
Where is that one from
Looks like it's from some video

>>3186392
I painted this myself just now.

>>3186385
My opinion is that life drawing is great if you want to take your stylization to a higher level and maybe do more painterly stuff. I don't find it obligatory if you just want to do typical drawfag stuff/cute girl doodles, though.

If I were you I would start learning basic perspective and rotation of forms in 3d space. After that, you can start constructing cartoon characters if you feel like it. If you want to more quickly git gud at cartoon girls it's probably better to wait with drawing them and study anatomy/drapery and do shittons of figure drawing of real people until you have a more true understanding of how to draw humanoids in a variety of poses

>>3186380
hope that when you reincarnate you're not such a filthy weeb.

>>3186380
copy a different artist until you can merge both styles? Maybe set some kind of limitation on yourself or your process and continue refining whatever the outcome of that process is?

>>3186399
Damn, not what I wanted to hear but I just want the quickest route to making drawfag stuff so that helps, thanks my dude.

>>3186385
Judging from your pic related it looks like you're copying drawings on a line for line basis, which has it's merits. And while it teaches you the what, in terms of what it looks like (assuming you already know how to observe and not just assume what you draw), it doesn't teach you why it looks the way it does.

This is why many people don't recommend you study/copy from other artists unless you already have a basic grasp of the why's. This can lead to bad habits and mistakes that you may pick up from the artist.

This is where Loomis and life drawings come to play because that's where you start to understand the why's when it comes to drawing the stuff you want to draw.

Honestly don't make line work be your focus right now, you're not doing calligraphy. It'll come as you draw more and make more deliberate efforts towards controlling your tools.

But I mean take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm nowhere close to being good enough to give credible advice but I do think about the mindset behind drawing a whole lot.

>>3186380
What program. What brush. I'm lacking a general purpose sketch brush.

>>3186047

brush blending mode apply the mode on the brush. Means on the strokes itself.

layer blending mode is on the individual layer or group that you apply it to.

>>3186405
I never did the copy drawings thing so I don't really know what would happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if you spend a hundred hours copying great manga drawings and end up frustrated as soon as you try to draw your own anime girl without reference, since you haven't really been forced to work out where to place the lines that make up her features. You've mostly trained your measuring and stuff.

Best of luck

>>3186402
I'll trying limiting myself from including DB esque elements when I see them pop up in my drawings. Hope this'll work if I take it slow I guess. Don't think mering art styles will work for me since DB+Araki will look just as weebish
>>3186408
G-pen in Medibang Paint Android version

>>3185510
I went ahead with it, i'm going to work on the scenery now, i've been working on my perspective for buildings and stuff and i want to show it here

>>3186420
>that spoiler
Well guess that's what I get for phoneposting

ok the ellipse-in-plane was already shit but it was tough so okay
but I ain't doing no two pages of fucking funnels

>>3186391
where did you learn this kind of value-painting thumbnailing style ?

>>3185944

Actually you just get butthurt on the way it was written. Most people here are asshole or just angry or fucking crab that got nothing better to do with their fucking life.

Hell, we all have our own problems with our progress. But to actually make any use of the "crits" here you need to put aside your ego and try to filter out the shit from the gold.

OR

You can go to other places but in those other places you still have to filter shit from gold. Only it's a different kind of shit. A slightly more dangerous shit. You can end up being complacent with that kind of shit.

Either way you need to develop a thicker skin. Which is a good thing to have if you want to continue being an artist. Or you can get a mentor, pay for one or go to school. You can get direct critiques from someone you can trust.

>>3186430
Honestly I just found some landscapes that I liked which were already in greyscale or just turned them to greyscale and noticed a pattern. Pic related as an example.

I think my attempt looks like ass and I wanna get better.

>>3185799
You have to learn how to display depth.
think about what makes a shaded circle pop out.
Now how do you make an unshaded circle pop out?
Answer this question by drawing not with words

>>3185799

Learn gesture.

What's something you can do when you can't seem to finish anything?

I can do studies alright but I have trouble just sitting down and seeing a drawing through to when it's finished?

What do you do to get going? How do I push past this?

>>3185799
learn not to be a fucking degenerate faggot

>>3186453
Kill yourself

>>3186445
just do it faggot

>>3186445
Have you tried drawing every day

>>3186457
meant for >>3186456

Ah well, how much have I fucked up guys?

so is it bad to put your paper up to the screen to check if you're getting your proportions right from the ref?
I guess learning to measure yourself is important, but every time I check my measurements, I notice that they're pretty off, and I've had quite a few instances where I start off doing ok, and then I start fucking up my measurements and the end product looks like some sort of weird alien.

>>3185799
Just challenge yourself to draw the weirdest/most difficult poses you can think of. Don't worry about details like face/clothes, just sketch and get the anatomy right.

>>3186484
nah its fine and its a good indicater. just dont make it a crutch. sight-size is a plebeian swindle but it can be useful every noe and then

How do environment artists give so much tiny details to their paintings ?
I'm stuck to the basic shapes of the scene.
I see where I want to go but the wall is so high I just abandon and paint a new sad and raw scene without being able to refine it.

>>3186507

i had the hardest time with this until i learned to start thinking values. basically, you just want to add in a bunch of random shit from your visual library. there's no easy way to learn this except to just do a lot of studies of environments and try to commit details to your repository.

How are my still lifes looking? Spent about ~20 min on each

>>3186562
my bad about the size, uploaded the wrong one :c

>>3186543

>>3186562
Don't be afraid of messing with the ground.
You can try painting on 50% grey so that your lighter values aren't so skewed towards white.
Be sure to keep the planes distinct. Stick to simpler materials (not glass or metal)

>>3186575

>>3186642
This pic is huge sry

>>3186620
Thank you, definitely makes it pop out a bit more

>>3184676

>>3186626

>>3186657
Stop the stylized backgrounds. You can do that later, right now, concentrate on the focus. These aren't half bad, but you need to protect the highlight areas, so it's white. Pick out the highlights with an eraser or white brush, the highest value in this is grey. You also need work on form, and accuracy - that will come with time, but watch your edges. Your shadows are too sharp, and too dark. In every case, the shadow draws the eye away.

Good start. Keep doing this kind of work, and refining it, and tightening it up.

>>3186657
What the hell? That's some crazy magic. It really does pop now. Background makes a ton of difference.

>>3186507
>How do environment artists give so much tiny details to their paintings ?
By working really big. Go google matt paintings for movies. They paint on glass 4-5' across, or bigger, depending on the level of detail they want.

>>3186433
This isn't "ass". It's not bad. If you want to move towards realism, you need more variation in the values in each layer of space, instead of everything being the same value, and adding shadows and highlights to each layer. You're on the right track, you just need to refine and define more.

>>3185642
Armor was rarely that polished, or chrome. Ceremonial armor was, but it's polish and sheen was limited to the tech available to them at that time - ie. not even close to the robot.

Apparently visualizing what you're going for instead of just working it out on the paper actually helps. Even when I'm just drawing cubes they seem to be coming out better.

>>3186684

>>3186729
Are you telling me you never thought to stop and think before you do things??

>>3186743
Well, I've mostly just been following Peter Han's Dynamic Sketching videos and so far it's just been "draw organic blobs" so I was just randomly drawing. But actually thinking about a 3d shape first seems to give better results.

How do I think in forms and draw them

>>3186761
Easy just draw boxes

>>3186763
How do I draw a perfect box

Tried some simple 2 value shading to end the day, I'm on paper that would bleed if I try to go to far anyways so I stopped at that.

Did some other things earlier like gesture drawings and another full paper figure drawing. Not too happy with those things. I'm wandering if I should be trying to even do 1:1 drawings anyway my end goal isn't to do those kind of things. I am hoping that I am developing my ability to measure correctly and to memorize the stages of drawing.

>>3186765
Vanishing Points and Horizon Line.

Late night wip

>>3185576
Thanks for the insight, I'm definitely seeing those issues. I feel like I draw my bases too quickly and forget to check them before jumping into detail.

Main goal was to practice fill layers and colors. Think I did alright still to scared to fuck with skin so I never added any light tones on it yet

Tried inking details and writing, how'd I do?

>>3186303
Crit pls

I had fun doing the detailing on this one, wish I'd done it larger so I could do more of the fiddly little bits

>>3186872
Just realised I didn't shade in the line on his sash

>>3186691
Thanks. Know of any resources/tutorials which might help me?

Everyone always says not to chicken scratch, does this apply to sketching? When I draw I usually sketch and then go over it in fine liner, I only use chicken scratching for the sketching and just use smooth lines after that.

>>3187043
Define or post chicken scratch sample.

How do I draw people and don't say loomis

>>3187044
Only example I really have.

>>3187048
By drawing people.

>>3187048
that's fucking vague. if not loomis do hogarth, zarin, vilppu, hampton.

>>3187043
Chickenscratching is only a huge problem if you are drawing traditional and don't have a lightbox or need clean lineart for anime but you can trace over it if you have a steady hand.

>>3187043
eyy i don't think that's chicken scratching, it's usually worser than this. but i do agree that ur lines can need some improvements.

>>3187054
Oh, I know that anyway, literally haven't drawn in like 10 years and just started. Just wanna make sure whatever I'm doing isn't going to give me bad habits.

>>3187043
It does. I'd not call your sample a sketch, still applies though. Draw with intent.

I can't fucking think or keep an image in my head of what I'm trying to draw.

>>3187064
Hm, what exactly is the problem with chicken scratching then anyway?
Also, I guess I'd agree with it not being a sketch, I guess it's too defined to be a sketch. When I say sketch I just mean it's more of an outline for when I go over it in pen where I try to have smoother lines and such because if I don't I tend to fuck my lines up.

What do you mean by draw with intent anyway? I'm a retard. :^)

Man, it's almost creepy how a little bit of paint for shadows and highlights and a flat line drawing just pops into 3D.

>Try to draw person and everything comes out too thin or too wide at different parts

How do I fix this this.

>>3187103
use a ref and concetrate

Should I be learning how to draw the head before the body

>>3187103
haha i get that when i draw mindlessly without setting up landmarks/concentrate on proportions.

>>3187103
PLUMB LINES

>>3187103
git gud

>>3187105
>>3187047
>>3186872
>>3185976
>>3185760
>>3185594

Noice! You should start learning construction.

first time doing the Loomis ball divide method
why does it look like shit?

>>3187366
>>3187366
>>3187366

>>3187366
>>3187366
>>3187366

>>3187366
>>3187366
>>3187366

>>3186685
I wasn't really going for any style, it just happened. just used a huge brush for like 30 seconds after other anon suggested a background.

I see what you mean about the highlights. Totally spaced on that and when I drew in the bg they got greyed out.

I did this whole thing with a huge charcoal-ish brush and then went at it with an eraser as kind of a hybrid gesture because I am not very good with smooth edges yet, it's easier to kind of carve it in but I see what you're saying.

I have yet to even really approach lighting & shadows outside of still lifes, but I'll get to that later and for now brush control.

Also yeah, I think still lifes are extremely valuable for beginners, there's just a lot to them.

Thx anon.

>>3187363
the nose looks cartoonish, you might want to use hampton for that. the lips?... also don't looks good. loomis doesn't teach u how to draw individual features, but their placements. use hogaarth for individual features

>>3186431
What the hell are you talking about? I'm not that guy. I was just talking about the fact that all that guy did was insult without any actual critique and your automatic response to OP was to tell him he needs to learn to take critique, as if that pile of shit disguised as words could be considered critique.

>>3187352
What do you mean? I did use construction, is there a problem with the proportions?

>>3187389
I really needed that info thank you very much <3

>>3186684
Haha great, I like it!
>>3186740
What is her emotion? Is she crying or her stomach hurts?

>>3187363
Lips are the width from the centre of each eye, not the width of the nose

>>3187363
>>3188015
I don't have my tablet so I just increased the size of the lips on one of your heads to the right size, also remember that the columella should connect to the centre line of the head, that's one of the reasons your noses look wonky

>>3184676
I need this