/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

chinks are soulless automatons

>>3184767
because they have been around and probably drawing that shit since they were kids, and eventually you too can stop using construction or parts of construction with enough repetition

Because they're high functioning symbol drawers.

>>3184778
I remember drawing dinosaurs and looney tunes characters pretty well without construction lines when I was about 9, but I've grown out of those.

>>3184767
Because these drawings are flat as fuck but it doesn't matter

>>3184767
They draw with construction lines, you idiot. Every image in perspective has to be constructed, either in your head or on paper. It's just easier and more natural to draw it on paper and it's one of the most idiotic /ic/ meme ever created that it's somehow a good thing to skip on construction.

>>3184797
>either in your head
That's what I'm talking about.

>>3184814
But that is a completely useless skill to have and the only artist who does it regularly is KJG during demonstrations. Just draw the fucking construction lines. It's a matter of minutes and it prevents errors that are bound to happen if you skip it.

>>3184817
>KJG
Who? Kim Jong Gay?

>>3184767
It's not that hard. Just try it for a while and see how it goes.

>>>>3184767

>>>>3184742

&

>>

>>3184889
>>>/pol/
Stop spamming your shitty quote.

>>3184770
NGMI
G
M
IMGN

>>3184767
https://sensei.pixiv.net/ja/lesson/11

>>3184767
that's practically a childs drawing. what constructions do you really think you'd need to make that? it's literally 3 circles and some scratchy lines.

>>3184767
They usually don't. Only the ones that are the most secure in what they do skip that stage. The same goes for western artist.
And don't forget that a motherfucking shitload of Japanese cartoonists are /beg/-tier. What they do just rarely gets international attention.

>>3184797
>They draw with construction lines, you idiot. Every image in perspective has to be constructed, either in your head or on paper

The definition of drawing with construction is actually making the lines on the paper.

>>3184767
I think I know what you mean.

If you really wanna do it, and learn the skill to do so in a very short amount of time, come to flipland and apply for inbetweener position doing cleanup/inbetweens for ching chong nip nong cartoons.

seriously, I was paid .03 usd equivalent for every approved sheet of inbetween/cleanup. You'll magically learn how to draw fast/efficient and without "construction lines" or you'll die starving.

though, in my case, 20 years of not drawing anything made me lose all my skills and drawing and now is just a humble xerox nigger

>>3184767
That has nothing to do with race. It's just a practice. Though all east asian kids have drawn manga at least once in their life. We are champion of symbol drawings.

>>3184929
Did you do that? Are you a native flip? That honestly sounds like a fun yolo thing to do, I've even got some money saved so I wouldn't have to starve for a year or so.

Is that actually a thing? Foreigners going there to get experience? Paperwork/visa wise

>>3184975
im a flip. i did inbetweening work during the 90s during the hey days of DBZ and Cutey Honey and stuff.

but i don't know what you should do. i guess a solid drawing fundamental is part of getting in i guess.

here in flipland, there are a lot of animation studios for ching chong nip nong cartoons. i guess burgerland doesnt have a widespread 2d animation industry that you really need to work hard and fast.

also, its not fun, my hands are damaged forever

>>3184981
Can you still draw? that job sounds very difficult its horrible how third world people get exploited.

>>3184981
That's hardcore. I do have some drawing experience.

This is something I'd honestly be willing to try, main issues are potential immigration laws (would have to look it up I guess), and what if the studios aren't very international and I end up being the only white piggu in a building full of flips. Do people even speak English at those workplaces? Guess it might have been different in the 90s anyway.

>>3184988
only xerox nigger level.

>>3184929
Why are filipino cartoons so fucking garbage?

>>3184767
>2 years

>>3185006
At least bait threads generate good discussion

>>3185005
i'm out of the loop for animation, but all I can say is that flipland doesn't have animation industry of its own, most if not all are outsourcing or used for advertisements.

If anything, the flip cartoons are more or less passion projects by few people or a passionate outsourcing studio boss who dreams they can make animation industry in flipland again

>>3184981
How good were you before you got hired? What did you have to do to make it in? Some sort of test?

>>3185014
I don't have any formal art or drawing education, i was more or less chicken scratch xerox good, which might be the reason I got hired, you need xerox skills in animation.

You'll lose your bad habits in drawing, I faithfully swear that I got rid of my chicken scratch when I worked in animation. but I got it again after not drawing for 20 years and my hand condition

some of the studios test are mostly how good are you at illustrating, then they'll teach you to animate for around 2 weeks. then you go to the boiler room.

>>3185025
Don't you have any drawings from when you worked in the industry?

>>3185026
sadly no. combination of paper being eaten by ants/thermites/discoloration/misplacement i have no more drawings when i worked in animation

>>3185028
Well shit, I'd hoped for something like this. You should begin posting drawings on /ic/, maybe you'll get less rusty with time.

Inspiring story anyway, I'll look into working with inbetweening in SEA/PRC.

>>3185028
Do you live better now anon

>>3185042
compared to back then, yes.

I was a poor middle class boy, so learning art is not cheap, specially before the age of computers. i never learned how to color properly or through trial and error since a pack of colors costs me arm and leg and allowance money is better spent on food.

literally can't afford to buy a wacom in late 90s to early 2000s since it costs too much. cant afford a scanner to at least scan my art and correct them in photoshop.

working as a salesman for a few years made me afford some wacom and computer.

I really envy you guys now, since wacom is cheap now, and there are resources for learning online. so don't waste all that progress and technology has given you.

for me, i'm am quite content now for being a xerox nigger

I bet none of you faggots can do this.

I am so fucking frustrated that after years of study my faces are awful while the dumbest saucer-eyed manga waifus are more appealing.

Today I said fuck it all and I printed out some stuff by Shigeki Soejima and tried figuring out the construction with a lightbox and I still couldn't figure anything out. He spaces the eyes wider, makes nose and mouth smaller and pushed further down in th face but when I do it it looks fucking atrocious. I just CAN'T for the life of me learn how to create appealing faces, it's driving me crazy. I literally want to snap all my pencils REEEE

>>3185972
Can you show examples? Maybe you don't really try to express anything with faces or don't have grasp on how to make expressions?

>>3185972
His first name is Shigenori. And all his characters look mix of Asian and Caucasoid. Even apparently white characters.

He is specially skillful. Don't compare yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbZUvWs-XyE

>>3185972
well, I tried my hand with Soejima guy.

anyway, my advice for you from a humble xerox nigger. anime style is 90% in the eyes. once you copy their eyes, that's just it.

>>3185937
His mouth placement and chin look so fucking dumb.

>>3186065
thats par for the course of yaoi and shojo males

>>3186069
It doesn't have to.

>>3186120
thats the facial features what fujoshis find appealing

>>3185986

>>3184993
am flip, can confirm that english is the second language of the philippines. though you might have some run-ins with non-english speaking locals while trying to get around

>>3186155
>>3185986
Spent more time on this and it's still hideous

>>3186127
I've seen fujoshi artists making fun of pointy chins a lot, tho

Because they grow up around that shit to this point where it becomes obsessive than passive. Why do think kids in Western countries draw American cartoon characters?

>>3186155
The only thing I get from this face is "looking and someone and opening the mouths to talk"
The mouth is loose, the eyes are neutral, the eyebrows seem normal.
Maybe you're trying too hard to keep the girl looking pretty?
Anyway just ask yourself "what are they feeling in this piece?" and Google "_____ angry face manga" or whatever. Also check your own face in the mirror and make exagerated expressions and draw them. (The essence, not a self portrait)

>>3185937
Honestly, this is really mediocre.

>>3186667
Can you do better? Let's see you have a go at it

>>3186186

>>3184767
Because you haven't been taught how, if you've been coming here for education.

>he needs construction lines to draw

>>3185937

This isn't bad on like a style/line weight level. I love those lines, and the way it's generally drawn, but the head looks like it's at a different angle than what the neck is going.

>>3184767

Construction lines are ultimately there so you don't mess shit up. If you don't need that or have drawn enough you can do things you've previously done with minimal to no construction lines. That being said it's not that it's easier for them, they just draw alot. The picture you posted isn't amazing my any standards and should not be something you aspire to.

>>3186155
>>3186186
if you are willing to listen to a brambling chicken scratch shit fucking xerox nigger, i'll show you a way to copy Soejima's anime style, well at least upto 90% copy

>>3186155
>>3186186
first of all, the face is pretty much rigid, up until the jaw. use very straight lines. you kinda made the face pudgy with soft looking cheeks, making it look like a disney character.

>>3186155
>>3186186
Soejima's style usually have eyes really wide apart and very long noses, particularly for Persona 5

the way the eyeball is drawn, is more flat on the bottom, but very curvy on the top.

and the eyebrows are thick on the top and very thin on the bottom

>>3186155
>>3186186
for the hair, let the hair flow. dont just draw them randomly, draw them from a point flowing down. it makes it look more natural that way

>>3186155
>>3186186
don't draw the full nose or lips. Soejima's style particularly for persona 4 is using the shading to show you where the nose, bridge is.

for the lips, you usually use the shading or coloring to make them look full, but never draw the line art.

also, for the nose, small thin lines is the best,it makes them look perky and thin.

>>3186186
>>3186155
on the neck, Soejima's style is really all about thin or long necks.

>>3186186
>>3186155
there you go, a quick coloring of my chicken scratch shit.

i would say around 85-95% copy, if i cleaned it up, maybe it would look better

>>3186910

>>3186910
>>3186680
Thanks!

>>3186910
The left eye and nose should be a little bit more close together.

>>3184767
muscle memory from drawing similar figures. I've seen pony artists draw without construction lines too just bc they're so used to it


>I've been learning to draw more seriously for about 2 years and still incapable of that.

really now? in those 2 years how many hours did you spend ACTUALLY drawing

Why do so many people on this board seem to think asians are somehow capable of witchcraft or have some absurd racial bonus when it comes to art? There's just as many /beg/ or deviantart level artists in Japan, you just don't fucking see them. If they are doing something good it's because they've probably been drawing their entire lives not autistically trying to find the magic answer instead of actually practicing like you are, by which I mean

JUST
FUCKING
DRAW

>>3187081
this, chinks can robotically grind because they're soulless insectoids. they aren't inherently better at anything

>>3187081
>try to just draw
>can't think of what to draw and too concerned with it looking like shit anyways


I'm ngmi

>>3186910
What the fuck.

>>3187081
>There's just as many /beg/ or deviantart level artists in Japan
Dunno, but the worst arts on pixiv are nowhere near the tragedy that is deviantart autism.

>>3186910
your lines are pretty scratchy, what software are you using?

>>3187127
that's because they get buried. and less Japanese have dk so they only show off their better works. also education.

>>3187173
I'm the >>3185025,>>3184981 guy.

not only because of years not drawing made my skill degrade, but since I have no formal education or any sort of education on how to draw without damaging your hands, years of animating seriously hurt my arms. there's always a small tingling and pain sensation on my wrist that worsen everytime, and gets excrutiatingly painful when i make huge strokes. so, im now just a worthless chicken scratch shit /beg/ tier

>>3187220
have you tried drawing with your arm? lock down your wrist to that. (btw you'll also need a big canvas, at least letterpaper). also, have you tried reconditionning/strenghtening exercises?

Construction is a meme. If you want to get better at construction, draw without construction.

>>3187278
better at drawing without construction*

>>3184780
this

>>3187278
>>3187280
Wrong. The people who are good at drawing without construction are the ones who have completely internalized construction and can do it in their head by now. If you can't draw WITH construction, you have no chance in hell that you will ever draw anything halfway decent in perspective without construction.

>>3187220
dude use medibang with a stabilizer you're comfortable with

I know a tumblr artist who draws on a wacom bamboo with sai and even his first drawings aren't this bad. he is a pokephile tho

>>3187293
How do I internalize construction to the point I can do it without?

>>3187552
for me what I did back then was to reduce the "construction lines" thingy everytime until you are completely comfortable to the next step.

like first, try to dont use "construction lines" for the placement of eyes nose and lips, until you are comfortable drawing figures without it, then move to the next step, like drawing the face without construction lines

>>3186910
first of all, the face is pretty much rigid, up until the jaw. use very straight lines. you kinda made the face pudgy with soft looking cheeks, making it look like a disney character.
Soejima's style usually have eyes really wide apart and very long noses, particularly for Persona 5

the way the eyeball is drawn, is more flat on the bottom, but very curvy on the top.
and the eyebrows are thick on the top and very thin on the bottom
for the hair, let the hair flow. dont just draw them randomly, draw them from a point flowing down. it makes it look more natural that way

don't draw the full nose or lips. Soejima's style particularly for persona 4 is using the shading to show you where the nose, bridge is.
for the lips, you usually use the shading or coloring to make them look full, but never draw the line art.

also, for the nose, small thin lines is the best,it makes them look perky and thin.
on the neck, Soejima's style is really all about thin or long necks.

there you go, a quick coloring of my chicken scratch shit.
i would say around 85-95% copy, if i cleaned it up, maybe it would look better

>>3186910
nice try kiddo, but i had to correct you. nothing personel

>>3187562
By drawing a shitload WITH construction, how did that point not get into your head.

>>3187127
Actual straight up lie. I used to browse pixiv practically daily and saw pathetic da-tier drawings every time. There's a fuckload of ass artists on pixiv if you browse for more than 25 minutes.

>>3187600
>like first, try to dont use "construction lines" for the placement of eyes nose and lips, until you are comfortable drawing figures without it, then move to the next step, like drawing the face without construction lines

this method is useless when you draw non anime faces

>>3187834
salut senpai ;_; c'et beau

Just work on achieving what on inproving your own drawings and just do you're best.

No matter how good you are at something there will always be someone better... so don't worry about who.is better than you.

Just practice hard and do your best.

>>3187600
the only time you can skip the construction lines is if you've drawn the face literally a thousand times to the point that you'd have memorized their position on the paper. and that's just in the view you're used to.

nobody should be doing this unless you don't give a damn about character design variety

>>3184767
>2017
>needing construction lines

>>3187833
>>3187834
not sure if serious

>>3187229
>>3187552
the problem with my hand is that when i was still young, i kinda pulled and snapped a nerver or two on my wrist. being dirt poor (inbetweener doesnt pay much you know) i proiritized food over medical attention, so its now permanent. the circles are spots on my hand hurts when i hold a pen.it really hurts a lot when i try even a remotely long stroke, so i do short chicken scratch strokes.

>>3188081
>>3188087
well, i dunno what it takes for the other people to draw without construction lines, but I'm an expert on myself. I was there when it happened, or something. working on ching chong nip nong cartoons will really give you two drawing skills: xerox copy and drawing without "construction lines"
because those two skills are really the skills that will have you earn your money for food.

>>3186155
>>3186186
anyway, here's a quick scratchy sketch of persona 5 protag. sorry if its extra scratchy today. Lyrica is not working properly today. i hope you can analyze for yourself on how to draw males Soejima style.

>>3188116
YOU FUCKING STOP REDLINING RIGHT FUCKING NOW YOU HEAR? WE'RE SERIOUS AS FUCK.

>>3188116
So do a lot of copying and tracing and you too will be able to draw without construction lines.

>>3188285
or you can, y'know, actually learn how to draw

>>3184767
Here's what no one tells you: once you draw so much with construction, you can start feeling form without having to use construction. I used to think it was some magical ability too but it's not, it comes from tons of repetition.

>>3188373
Always draw with a lot of construction then?

>>3188376
Yes, but it'll start coming natural when you think you don't need it anymore.

>>3184767
>Why is it so easy for the east asians to draw without construction lines?
This
>>3184778
>because they have been around and probably drawing that shit since they were kids
I been doing the same thing. I been sketching all my life and never learn to draw using construction lines like circles, and rectangle. It also left me with plenty of throw-away pages I would never go back to because I did not like how it looked. Bad foreshadowing, uneven anatomy, or just bad subject placement. Because I never learned those simple techniques, I just got good the hard way.

My anime heads are wonky trash even with construction

friendly reminder that construction lines are training wheels and are unnecessary. i learned how to construct a head when i was 9 years old.

friendly reminder that construction lines are artistic training wheels and are completely unnecessary. i learned how to construct a head when i was 9 years old.

>>3187081
basically they don't let shit work ethic bleed into their life, the good ones are on a constant schedule
go take a look at a mangaka's work schedule sometime, the amount of free time they give themselves is fuck all, the important part is never giving yourself an inch or it'll snowball into the same shitty laziness you see in webcomic artists or popfurs
if you want to be asian good, you basically need to say goodbye to your temptations and guilty pleasures and stick to a strict regiment. japanese can do it because their culture grinds it into them at an early age. anyone else can do it, it's all just self-control and giving up a lot of what you're comfortable with, most westerners aren't going to do it but it's not out of reach for anyone, eventually your brain adjusts but it'll take longer the older you get

Where is my construction? Eeeeeh?

>>3187090
Better be soulless than ngmi...

>>3187220
I would kill myself if that happened to me

>>3188087
I'd kill for those skills

>>3189068
>copying a reference = drawing from imagination
retard

Don't forget to grind Hampton for 5 years.

>>3189076
Ahhhhh, construction

>>3188409
This.

>>3189077
Those faces are so cute!

>>3189068
>>3189079
Muroi is a useless hack. His method can create only xerox niggers.

>>3189091
>His method can create only xerox niggers.
>animators
It's time to practice some Hampton right?

>>3189077
Holy shit I have been looking for this artist forever ever since I forgot their name. What is it?

>>3189068
>>3189079
What book is this?

>>3189110
The book is not out yet. It's from his streaming.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRYuHKwhgfCighvhR3n151w

>>3189109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S64IYlR6_9U

>>3189115
His book was good. Not for beginners but it has many hints.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4798050938

>>3189102
You know that this is from ref right ? :D

Bump ^ w^

>>3186910
This is absolute /beg/ trash

>>3188087
> open gif
> undertale horseshit
> close gif

>>3189126
I bought the book and used machine translation which wasn't great but it gave a vague idea. He emphasis that you shouldn't rely on the mannequin or any under-drawings, perspective lines etc, and that you should draw whatever should be closest to the viewer first and then work your way back. It was an interesting read from what I could understand, and reading it along with his videos kinda gives you an idea of what he's on about. Has anyone else managed to get any good info out of the book?

>>3184767
rkgk motherfucker

>>3193478
>https://youtu.be/KNk0TVR58QU?list=PLn260AvnyLWTqGV82zri0_0KNLUnisnnZ
Yeah, his book is unique in focusing on how to draw without any preparation. Just watching this video series was helpful. He emphasizes you need just object, line and shadow to draw depth. Really big front object, then drastically small in the middle, lastly just dot.

>jealous wh*Toid thread

>>3193758
Nice, I've really tried to get a translation on those videos as well using Capture2Text, but alot of the parts are just unreadable, still an interesting video to watch though. I've just bought his other book "how to draw a messy world" and that looks like it has more step by step instructions, I'll post if I find anything interesting there.

>>3189126
is there a place where you can buy this book digitally?