/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Akiane Kramarik

Van Gogh (started at age 27 - dead a few years later)

>>3135439
he wasn't gud, just original.

Idk, can someone actually make it if they start drawing at 21?

Suppose I'm 21 and I want to work as a concept artist at Disney in 5 years. possible? Suppose I'm studying illustration in a month.

sorry to highjack your thread, op. I think it's very possible to become a good painter, 21 is still young.

>>3135435
If you're talented, yes.

>>3135439
>Van Gogh
was a terrible artist technically speaking
he was just elevated by art critics trying to sell shit

>>3135435
>rapoza
>maciej
>mullins
>john park worked day job as an illustrator in marketing firms
>james jean i think started late

1-2 years of fundamentals then you can 'specialise' in what you want to do (concept, illustration, animation, etc.). Each needs basic fundies, but when you decide what to do then you forgo some funamentals in favour of others. A portrait painter doesnt need KJG-intuitive 5pt perspective. A concept designer doesnt need Michaelangelo's anatomy. It'd be nice but you dont have the time. Dont aim to be a master by 30, just focus on getting a job.

>>3135519
Survivorship bias. All those artists are talented

>>3135527
That's exactly what OP is asking. If it's possible and yes, it is because of these survivors.

>>3135497
there was an anon here recently who said he started at 22 and now makes pretty good illustrations.

>Suppose I'm 21 and I want to work as a concept artist at Disney in 5 years. possible? Suppose I'm studying illustration in a month.
i'm gonna say no. if working for such a major company were that quick and easy, you would know about it. Try maybe 10 years.

>>3135527
>talent
>survivor bias
>ligameme
>brain plasticity

Anything else?

Jobs are out there for even intermediate artists. You might not land Blizzard or CDP on the first go but you'll work in the field if you persevere. Even working in ads, mobile bloatware, tiny start-ups or internet porn is better than some 40 hour cubicle job that has you not practicing in some way. If you run at the first sight of trouble art probably isnt for you. Instead you get to tell a sob story about once wanting to be an artist to your 2.5 kids.

>>3135546
How survivor bias and talent related to discord "brain plasticity" and "ligameme" bullshit Your theorycrafting about job is just theorycrafting.

OP here. I don't really want to be a digital artist or what is commonly posted on here (no disrespect that's just not what I'm interested in). I'm more interested in whatever traditional painting would be, like pic related

>>3135574
Digital painting or not, the fundamentals are the same. The real answer to your question is, stop asking if's and start working for it or you'll be asking the question forever.

>>3135562
>theorycrafting

Look, there's another buzzword! You had another one after all.

>>3135574
Most "master" level fine artists in the past reached their full potential in about 10-15 years of starting serious study - and that's living and breathing art all day, studying under a master, and doing nothing else.

Having said that, there's no firm rule for how long anything will take. You have no idea what your talent level - if any - is, if you're a quick learner, how motivated you are, etc. There's only one way to find out. if you're just going to learn for the sake of learning, then stop worrying about how long it will take, accept that you're starting a long journey of discovery and education, and get started. Start taking painting courses at colleges near you in your spare time. Your local community college probably has basic art courses. You could do worse as a hobby.

>>3135497
Starting at 21 with no experience at all? 5 years? Nope. Most art students have a foundation of work done in high school or even earlier, and have been developing skills for years before they start college.
One thing to note: working as a conceptual artist is more than just learning to paint. You also have to have creative skills, top notch creative skills. Conceptual art is just that - concept. Sure, you can paint a tree - but conceptual art is a hell of lot more than that.
Plus, you'll be competing with the top 1% of the top 1% of all artists applying at Disney. People who probably have a decade or more of experience over you - and a ton more talent. The more successful artists tend to find art as a calling early in life - they don't learn to draw and paint to get a job, they do it because it's part of them.
If you have a ton of talent, learn fast, and get some extremely good breaks, and go to The Art Center (Disney recruits from there), sure, why not. Realistically, knowing what I do of Disney? Not happening.
Do you even know what a conceptual artist does? I'm asking seriously.

>>3135519
>A concept designer doesnt need Michaelangelo's anatomy.
Laughably untrue. Conceptual artists spend a large amount of time and effort on character design, and a lot of it is realistic.

>>3135590
realistic =/= Michelangelo's anatomy

>>3135591
Oh, christ, I hooked a neckbeard.

>>3135583
Not OP but I've tried to get to the point of making a living with art and after 5 years I had to face reality and put my art career in the backseat, but since I gave up on "making it" hardcore I have lost all motivation to draw...

I'd need at least 3-4 more years to become "employable" in terms of skill level, and it just dawned on me that maybe I'm just not cut for it. I'm barely passable after SO much hard work, and that's to get to an intermediate level. All these doubts appeared out of nowhere as soon as I decided to get real. I don't know how to face this.

>>3135582
>anon can't draw buy talk shit about jobs
>not theorycrafting
Yes, please?

>>3135594
Mind sharing your work for reference?

>>3135590
If you focus on characters maybe. Even then you could get by with 3d overlays and photobashing. Envirocucks dont need to even know their abs form their obliques.

>>3135596
This shit happened almost overnight where I was hellbent on improving, drawing and learning and then all of a sudden I couldn't even make something to post on Instagram. After a month of struggle I ended up deleting everything because I was so dissatisfied in general with the quality and reality struck me pretty hard. No idea how to regain that motivation now that my eyes are open so to speak.

>>3135594
You have a work sample we can see? What are your art job goals? What do you do to pay the bills? You could try to get an art related thing to pay the bills. If not, go for somewhere you sit/dont do physical labour so you're not too tired to work after hours. Being in a community/ being on social media helps motivation, at least for me, like there's an expectation to post/improve. Its at least a place to interact with other artists.

>>3135631
See >>3135628
This is a design thing instead

>>3135631
Forgot to reply to the rest: up to that breaking point I was NEETing just to draw and paint, I'm applying for graphic design jobs but I don't get along well with people, online or off. In the end I always steered away from communities for one reason or the other, I only stuck to /ic/ because it's the only place where people don't pat each other on the back.

Being in a European country struck pretty hard by the crisis is making it pretty hard to find a job as well, so I won't have the luxury of choosing not to do physical labor. But my main issue is that lack of drive so it's all internal.

>>3135519
james jean did not start late, proof at 0:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UheGvMgq61E

>>3135594
you know you better than anyone obviously etc. etc. (cue the cliche preface) BUT they do say that right at that moment where you are about to quit is around the same interval you are about to get really good at something.

>>3135645
>BUT they do say that right at that moment where you are about to quit is around the same interval you are about to get really good at something.
Not that anon, but curious who says this. Sounds like something said in a movie to be honest, but I can see it being said by people too.

>>3135639

Same shit happened to me senpai though it was over a weekend. Had a shitty shift at McDs and coming home midnight to do studies triggered that shit.

Spent the weekend losing my mind and going through job listings. I'm still in university but Im feeling the pressure. Im back to normal schedule now though Im focusing more on producing finished/final draft work than just grinding Bargues and 50 deltoid studies. Graphic work is easier to land I feel and takes less effort so steering your style to that might work better. You probably have to learn a few skills like typography, grids and Indesign/illustrator at the basic level if your photoshop work is not getting through.

I think your work needs more context. What are you designing for? What are your interests? Seems like fantasy and characters. Steampunk? Also the values feel a bit flat and the posing feels stiff. The environ on the first one looks interesting though the girls face could use work. I guess values and colour are your main issue imo. Its the fundie that takes the most time but its not impossible even under pressure. You just have to take it slow.

>>3135648
I don't have a citation because it's just one of those sayings. I don't watch many movies at all and am sure I didn't get it from one, mostly because I hate people who quote filmic platitudes, but I suppose it's possible it's been said in a movie. But on the other hand it makes a lot of sense if only because it literally would mean that you would have to keep trying at something without quitting until you quit or died. So actually now that I think about it, it is logically tautologous...

>>3135685
but it still would imply that you
1. got good at something
or
2. died

>>3135681
Thing is I struggle a lot with figures in the first place. I have trouble with faces and I can't do dynamic poses to save my life, they stiffen inexorably after the sketch phase (even more so in ink which is what I work with most of the time).

I want to make comics. Consistency is my #1 problem, but after all these years it's still so ridiculously difficult I simply can't pull it off for a living, nor I will within the next few years. I have a few "nice" drawings that I happened to make but that doesn't equal being able to make nice drawings.

>>3135435
No OP. You are doomed.

>>3135628
I'm a beginner, so you might not want to take this advice too serious, but I think the problem with this piece is composition. It's really boring overall. You can see the skill showing in a few areas. On the trees and the unfinished sketches on the backgound show promise, but I feel this is really lifeless.

At first, I coudn't really tell what was wrong with this image, but as I searched for some "professional" bloodborne art, it dawned on me that that's where the problem might lie. Anyway, good luck making it in life, anon.

>>3135589
>Do you even know what a conceptual artist does?
yea and I know it includes a lot of things.

>extremely good breaks
what did you mean by this?

>art center
wasn't it calarts?

>>3135530
10 years doesn't sound bad.

>>3135704
Yeah there's a million problems with that drawing. That's pretty much the best I can do in terms of complexity, I usually can't pull off much more than simple figures against a background. When I try making actual comics the consistency drops dramatically.

As I said after almost 5 years, me being 30, it's not a lot and I'm not sure how to keep going. I still like drawing very much but that big push towards a goal isn't there anymore. For now I'm taking a break from the internet (deleted accounts on social media, browsing art on ArtStation etc.) and see if anything happens in my head, but all that happened so far is I've felt even more detached. As I said, no idea so far.

I don't want to give in to pessimism but it's really hard to just look ahead.

ITT: idiots that don't know the difference between conceptual artists and concept artists

>>3135731
There's a reason they're called concept designers.

>>3135728
Are you a neet at the moment? What do you do?

>>3135435
>being this dumb at the age of 21
NGMI

>>3135742
Still neeting, hopefully getting job in graphic design (made courses for it), most likely getting a warehouse / supermarket job if I'm lucky. I'd still like to make art in the end.

>>3135748
even if you get a supermarket job, don't forget to draw what you enjoy on the side. Keep yourself happy, grinding fundamentals isn't always the answer, doing so will help your design and composition sense.

>>3135748
Just keep your head down and work. Doubt will kill you. Worst case scenario is you stock shelves for a pittance and get minor back pain while dragging your ass learning fundies. No getting past the fact you dont know whats ahead of you and that there's a lot of work ahead. People dont do art for a reason and if you really chose this then you are supposed to do it despite the fact its hard. Getting good is one thing, getting a job is another challenge depending on shit like network, luck and circumstance. Someone will always have something to say that makes sense for you to quit. It makes sense NOT to do art. If you're set on this you need to go a bit mad. Literally you have to hallucinate trust and believe you can make it. Do anatomy(vilppu), values(bargue), colour(fawkes), and perspective(scott). Do finished work, 6-12 hours a day, minimal music/internet while study. Post social media frequently - tumblr,IG,artstation,twitter - secondary fb,behance.

No idea if you'll make it will but the only other choice is to quit. Thats on you.

>>3135768
post your work

22 anon here and only just now deciding to dive into making art I want seriously. This is after years of on-and-off doodling and making dumb shit that I learned in classes from middle school and high school (Talking making silly and cartoony sketches). I don't know if that increases my chances of anything happening but I'm going to see what the hell comes of it anyway after a couple years.

The best advice I might be able to give just from what I know going into this as an amateur myself is:
>>3135768
And to keep going with an insatiable drive. Never feel content or pleased in overcoming an obstacle or challenge. Always push further and harder. It'll require more work compared to some kid that's been making pieces since they were 16.

>>3135435

i think Min Yum was 27 or 28

>>3135519
>>3135643
What's the appeal of James Jean? I always hear his name but I don't know what people like about him.

>>3135497
>van gogh isn't art
>the only good art in the world is concept art
>feng zhu is a god among men
>I can't wait till I can paint over photographs in 30 minutes to give other people a vague representation of their own ideas

>>3136952
you seem to have deep frustrations because this anon didn't day anything of what you are claiming he said

>>3135589
We'll geez that's a bit pessimistic.
OP you can pretty much become proficient at anything if you're dedicated to it. Provided you have no mental or physical issues. However it would definitely take much longer than had you started as a child and whether or not you're even creative and original is a whole other story. So yes, you can be painting realistic portraits after many years of dedicated training but whether or not you'll have any substance is not a matter of practice.
All I can tell you is to give it a try, see if you had some undiscovered talent there.

>>3137117
>>3135589
>>3135497
I'm the anon that asked for the 21 y/o disney tier concept artist question.

what if the 21 years old guy after a year of practice made pic related? Is there hope to work in a top tier industry?

>>3137120
For reference, Rossdraws got work from Disney and he's quite young.

>>3137130
>Rossdraws got work from Disney

really? Sounds like it's more promotion than creative work. It's his popularity Disney is buying, not his skills. (assuming disney pays him to draw moana)

bump

>>3135435
Define good.

>>3138683
>I want to be good enough so that I can make complexly real what I imagine in my head.

Who the hell keeps making these threads?

>>3135628
>>3135728
Go through ctrl paint's 'composition basics' I feel it would help you a lot.

https://www.ctrlpaint.com/library/

>>3135435
The question I have for people who create these threads is:
Have you ever gotten good at anything? If you haven't then sure it may seem impossible.

But also: Your intuitions are wrong because you are AN IDIOT. Learn, study, observe, commit, explore. Read some fucking books. Break out of your closed minded mold of learned hopelessness.

>>3140061
>The question I have for people who create these threads is:
>Have you ever gotten good at anything?
I never started one of these but I feel hopeless as fuck and no, I have always seen other people surpass me by leaps and bounds. I really want to be good at art but day after day it feels more useless to keep practicing. I go on ArtStation and I don't even argue with myself anymore that I have a chance against these trained professionals who are in many cases 10 years older than me.

>>3140075
>older
you mean younger?

>>3140243
Pretty sure anon just accidentally revealed his weakness to you. He knows it'll take 10 years to get that good, but doesn't want to do it because it's such a long amount of time.

>>3140243
yes I meant younger

>>3140249
Links to these 11 year olds OP.

>>3140272
stop being mean.

There's two ways to be a good artist
1) Draw for almost all your life
2) Have talent that enables you to start from square one as an adult.

>>3140431
Except neither of these are true and are actually fantasy

>>3140433
All artists that started in adulthood and became skilled were the talented ones. The rest failed because they lacked the skills.

>>3140440
wow theres a lot of talented people out there

>>3135437
Wat r u even saying? Know who she is. Don't know what your saying. She was a child prodigy. Her genetics blessed her. We're talking practice and effort here.

>>3140440
You're on a website for autists. Chances are you have the talent if you browse here.

>>3140440
Talent is a dark ages concept. Before psychology, people attributed extremely skilled individuals to having been the consequence of divine intervention. The idea that there is some genetic built in maximum skill level for each human as a concrete deciding factor is being phased out of modern psychology, as no part of skill acquisition cannot be explained by environmental factors, total time in experience, amount of practice and quality of deliberate practice.
https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/freakonomics/pdf/DeliberatePractice(PsychologicalReview).pdf?mcubz=3

The very idea that you cannot become good if you are not 'talented' is a self fulfilling prophecy. You have doomed yourself to failure by already believing you can't do it.
In fact, given ten seconds of scrutiny, talent is illogical. Which parts of any given skill, but not ones based on athleticism, cannot be taught? What errors cannot be pointed out and corrected? To say there are any would be insanity. Can you not point out to a rally driver, where his turns could have been sharper, where he could have accelerated more? Is he going to one day wake up, and having suddenly hit the threshold of his 'talent', not be able to employ your advice anymore, and learn anything else about driving?

>>3135583
Fuck me, do you know how much this advice sounds like the advice you hear from esoteric Buddhism ? Find a guru, devotion to the path, inching slowly toward the magical moment where "it" happens.

Just practice. It'll happen when it happens.
-Zenjamin

>>3141085
Generalized like that, the paths to mastery of anything all look alike. It's no coincidence either.

Set the habit, commit to the goal, reaffirm your goals to keep motivation, keep the habit going, work towards smaller incremental goals and milestones.

>>3141084
>Talent is a dark ages concept.
You're so full of shit you slosh when you take a corner too fast.

>>3141700
I've noted you ignored the research presented and the questions proposed. It's sad to see someone willfully accept being shit at everything because they sell their own humanity short and think they weren't magically built to do it.

>>3141752

What the flying fuck does tennis have to do with art, you fucking neckbeard?

>>3141960
It wasn't about tennis, it was about skill acquisition. I guess you have some kind of comprehension problem? Why do you think skill acquisition in art is somehow any different from skill acquisition in anything else? I've noted the continuation of being unable to refute the research. Is it crippling mentally to realize that you're only a failure from your own doing or something?

>>3141966
Dude, I know who you are. You're that puffed up neckbeard that crab buckets anyone with talent, and denies that it doesn't exist, because you don't have any. But your puny little ego can't accept that someone is better than you, so you've been waging a pathetic attack on talent for months now. I know exactly who you are.

And, I ignored your "research", because that quote is a from a book about making better teachers, it has nothing to do with talent, it has to do with teaching performance. Becoming a Reflective teacher, Robert J. Marzano. You cherry pick and purposely are misapplying his work to further your pathetic little agenda.

"Just as successful athletes must identify strengths and weaknesses, set goals, and engage in focused practice to meet their goals, so must teachers. Learn how to combine a model of effective instruction with goal setting, focused practice, focused feedback, and observations to improve your instructional practices. Included are 280 strategies related to the 41 elements of effective teaching shown to enhance student achievement."

You. Full of shit. Slosh. Now fuck off, neckbeard. And stop using other people's work, which you don't understand, to try and bully people, you fucking cretin.

>>3142003
>Dude, I know who you are. You're that puffed up neckbeard
Wrong guess. I don't even post on this board.

>And, I ignored your "research",
Because you can't refute it. No need to prattle on about nonsense.

>because that quote is a from a book about making better teachers,
No, that quote is from the conclusion of the psychology review on skill acquisition I linked several posts ago. You are not very bright I see.

The quote you quoted has absolutely nothing to do with the research I posted. At all. The author of the book was not involved with the research. The book is not the research. Why are you trying so hard to embarrass yourself with false accusations and a continued inability to refute the research?

>>3142022
I don't have to refute shit, dummy. You misapplied a book about making teachers to proving talent doesnt exist. And, the quote is verbatim from the book by Marzano. Google works, hello?

You're just throwing a tantrum, because you want to belong to a group you have no right to. You have no talent, and your ego can't accept that, so you're attacking the requirements, so you can pretend to be part of that group, because you can't stand not being better than everyone else in the room.

If you don't want to be busted, don't keep posting the same graphic in multiple threads.

>>3142077
Are you schizophrenic by any chance? Anyone can go click the link I provided and see that my image is a screencapture of the pdf I provided. It's a piece of research on skill acquisition, published in 1993, not a book on teaching, published in 2007, you absolute sperg. If you think that passage is verbatim in your book, your book quoted or stole it from the research.

>If you don't want to be busted, don't keep posting the same graphic in multiple threads.
The image I posted does not exist anywhere else on the internet, considering it is a screenshot I took this very day. You're welcome to reverse image search it you know?

Who am I kidding. At this point you're just intentionally digging yourself a bigger idiot hole. You already know you've been caught red handed. Just stop talking.

>>3136764
Same situation for me. I drew all throughout high school, then quit for 3 years (holy shit) after I broke up with my girlfriend.
22 now, and started drawing again in august. I'm doing everything I can to take my art to the next level now, and am already seeing some pretty significant improvement.

>>3142123
post work/improvement, please.

please.

>>3142204
just posted this on the /beg/ thread >>3142129

>>3142229
good, keep it up. How much time do you have? Are you NEETing?

>>3142696
I am right now, yes - although I'm trying to get a part time job so I can do more traditional artwork.
I'm trying to draw at least 6 - 8 hours a day, but failing that I try to at least finish something difficult.