/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Became pro in 3 years, but I have talent.
I learned by simply copying my favorite art and drawing from imagination. Just do that all day and you'll be fine.

>>3096216
post work?

>>3096199
For starters I read the sticky

>>3096216
>I learned by simply copying my favorite art and drawing from imagination. Just do that all day and you'll be fine.
Sounds like bait to be honest

>>3096199

art isn't learned but practiced. even pros constantly revisit the same fundamentals starting artists have to tackle so if your are asking how long will it take you to be able to draw without practicing the answer is never. you never stop learning.

>>3096264
It's not completely bait. If your intentions are to mimick someone as your first end goal, then copying and imagination will be the primary tool to achieve this. Studying of fundementals etc. are side projects and you can do color and value studies of your favourite art anyway.

Soooo
How long?

>>3097585
42

>>3096264
There are a lot of artists who learned like that. If you think every good artist went through loomis and scott robertson then you're delusional.

>>3097590
Well I do that too, I was just referring to the part of "do that all day".

>>3096199
I drew at least 4 hours every single day for 5 years before I became good. Like pretty much anything in life, it takes a shit ton of time and effort to become proficient at something. I went from being barely being able to draw stick figures to getting a full scholarship at an atelier. With some serious training and constant drawing i'd be shocked if you didn't see any major results in a month. I'll give you some learny material if you're interested but you're probably just a lazy american

>>3097601

Please post it anyway sempai, you may be a positive change in the life of a lurker.

>>3097601
Post it dude, be the hero this board needs

>>3097601

Not OP but post it dude, please help us make it

>>3097601
stop trying to force your shitty pasta

>>3097594
>I was just referring to the part of "do that all day".
>implying that drawing all day sounds like bait

wut

>it's another "people that claim to be good don't post their work" episode

It's time to change the channel

>>3097671
No nigggggggger
I meant: that isn't bad advice but I doubt you can become a pro JUST by copying other people's other and drawing from imagination all day every day

>>3097702
>I doubt you can go pro by doing what ever other pro has done.

Anon, you're making yourself look more and more retarded. Stop. I'm not insulting you, I'm trying to help you save yourself.

Copy your fav art, draw from imagination, that's literally it.

>>3097712
Ok so studying real life is worthless and nobody should ever do it?
>Yeah just copy other artists all the time like they didn't have to study from life too

>>3097717
I mean, the anon earlier said all he did was copy from favorite art and became pro in 3 years. So why wouldn't it work?

>>3096199
A lifetime.
>walks into sun

>>3097788
Well maybe because he admitted himself he was talented
OR he's a bullshit liar
OR he's not good at all, but somehow still 'made it' in the industry

>>3096199
"Just keep drawing" is literally all I did though. I've done it as a hobby consistently since I was like three, filled out one or two large sketchbooks every year through elementary, middle and high school. Besides small periods of big gains where I actually felt like studying an artist, I just casually doodled everywhere I went. I still draw a lot, but uni makes it harder to do it consistently since I have real work to do now. I plan to try studying some more when winter break arrives, I've never really attempted to do weeb shit well so that would be fun to learn.

I have talent. I could be a really good artist by now if I practiced when I started drawing but I'm a lazy piece of shit so I only draw 3 or 4 times a year and didn't improve much.

>>3097689
>its another ppl can't be good and I'm incredibly insecure Tums Festival

>>3097883
>>3101460
>>3096216
>believing in the 'talent' meme

>>3103650
>draw 3 or 4 times a year
>never practised drawing or had drawing classes
>yet when I draw something I get something like >>3101460
What is it then if it's not talent

>>3103654
Are you implying that's good?

>>3103650
talent exists and its a shortcut for some people. if you don't believe it, then I guess its all sour grapes.

>>3103660
I'm implying that it is good for someone who don't know shit about drawing

>>3103666
oh anon, I dont know what to tell you...

>>3096216
>but I have talent
Stopped reading there.

I don't have talent and I don't have much time to practice but I'd love to become good enough to at least draw some of the things in my imagination

>>3103674
Do you really not believe talent exists?

So did Mozart just work really hard when he was a baby to get to the point at 5 years old when he was already composing music? Extreme example but it's illustrative.

Some people certainly have a natural aptitude for drawing. How could anyone deny that.

I personally always had a natural aptitude for drawing. Back in elementary school with little effort I could copy DBZ characters well if I had a picture and I remember classmates always saying like how do you do that?? And I didn't have an answer. My mother used to draw political cartoons for newspapers so I think it's in my DNA for sure. We drew together sometimes when I was very young, but I always drawing better than stick figures just from the get go.

I got away from drawing for almost a decade after high school. Not really sure why but I just had no passion for it. I never learned or studied the technical side. While far better than the average person I was in comparison to real artists, absolute shit. (Couldn't draw proportional anatomy, etc.)

A few months ago, I somehow got a second wind and decided to study drawing earnestly. I became very good at anatomy within a summer of practicing roughly everyday. Not everyone can say they can get anatomy down in 3 months (albeit practicing for a couple hours everyday). I'm not trying to brag just making a point.

No artist becomes great without practice and hard work, but some people are absolutely at an advantage.

>>3099018
post more of that chef

>>3096199
>inb4 just keep drawing
Someone post that image with the artist and his huge pile of drawings in comparison to the small one of the beginner

>>3103816
If this thread is up a week or so from now I'll draw more just for you

>>3103850
thank you man

>>3103777
>Some people certainly have a natural aptitude for drawing.
Nope, some people just get really lucky and stumble upon the correct way to do things when they first attempt a skill. People who get labeled artistically inclined are usually just people who randomly found out how drawing works at a young age. People who 'get' a skill like this tend to find they have a lot of passion for it, and they leads them to put a lot more time in than the average person, which makes them look like they're progressive faster in the skill than other people in a given timeframe when the timeframe really isn't equal, because the person that gives more of a shit will be more inclined to study harder and longer, and seek out ways to make bigger improvements.

For example, if you put a million kids in front of a piano, a few of them will probably find out, by complete random chance, that if you play certain keys together you will get pleasant sounds. This kind of really positive and quick feedback will turn into passion for the kid, because they think they found something they can be good at, and get returns from, in a really short period of time. In reality it just ends up causing them to put way more time into it afterwards than they would have otherwise, and since they're passionate about it they get more attached to the learning of the skill, and learn more efficiently, because they give more of a shit.

>>3096199
Just keep drawing. Not memeing or trying to upset you but the truth is that it's variable per person, there's no way you can get an accurate quote on how long it will take you to get good.

There's also no mark where you've "learned" and are suddenly done learning. Career artists are constantly practicing and learning new things, or learning how to draw new subjects. And then we can get into the philosophical debate of how there is no such thing as truly "getting good" because someone will always better and you'll always have room for improvement.

The main thing is that you need to enjoy the process of drawing, even if you know you're bad. If you don't, then there's no point in continuing. So you either buckle down and learn to love it or you accept that you'll never get good.

If you have the determination, then you will learn more and improve. Don't doubt yourself. Don't seek instant gratification. Don't rely on a time quote for how long it takes to get to a certain level, because that was someone else and you're you. It's all based on your dedication and mindset.

>>3103777
>So did Mozart just work really hard when he was a baby to get to the point at 5 years old when he was already composing music?
Actually, yes. His father was a composer and made him practice constantly as soon as he was able to. He grew up in an incredibly nurturing environment for learning music, he wasn't some peasant living in a ghetto that was born with magical music powers. Also his compositions at 5 weren't his masterpieces or some shit. He started composing the music he's famous for in his late teens/early twenties. Y'know, after he had been practicing music every day since before he could walk.

Some people do learn faster because their brains may be better suited for certain tasks. We see extreme cases of this in autistic savants. But we are all born as literally retarded babies that shit and piss ourselves. The only intrinsic ability human beings have is the ability to imitate. Some people get lucky and have better models to imitate and learn from. Some people do have "talent" in the form of learning faster. But nobody is inherently good at anything and as long as you don't have a cognitive disability you can get good at most things with enough practice.

So stop purporting the fucking "talent" meme because you gave up and want to make others feel just as bad as you. Instead, try to live life to its fullest and look on the bright side of things. Maybe go back and try to learn to draw again, this time keeping in mind that your struggle is entirely internalized and the only thing stopping you is yourself.

>>3103676
Why, anon? Talent is very real.

>>3105543
It's such a weird concept. What if I have a great talent for wood-carving or snowboarding or flute playing but I'll never know because I never tried those things?

>>3105609
Then you'll never know?

Some people have skills that others simply don't no matter how hard they try. What comes naturally for you may not come as naturally to others and our capacity could be entirely different.

how can poeple deny talent exists? it has alwaysboggled my mind how poeple are in complete self denial. is it some kind of coping mechanism or blind optimism?

>>3105609
That sort of talent doesn't exist

>>3105609
>>3106016
"Talent" in its mainstream usage doesn't exist. The word is really just a synonym for skill. But people use "talent" to try and claim people have intrinsic abilities, which they don't. Instead, they have higher aptitude for certain skills which allows them to understand certain aspects of those skills easier than others.

It's an insult both to beginner artists and experienced artists for a layman to chalk up great works to "talent". It makes it sound like they were just born with the ability to draw well when everyone has to put in a shitload of work to get good regardless of how artistically inclined they are. It demotivates beginners by making them think they might one day realize they're missing some magic ability and there's no point in trying.

Instant gratification has also caused a huge amount of damage in redefining "talent" to "intrinsic skill" because people think that you're either supposed to get something right away or it's not for you. Which isn't the case. Too many people beat them up or dismiss activities as "not being for them" because they're not immediately good.

>>3107117
When did instant gratification begin?

>>3107117
>talent doesn't exists

xD

>>3105503
>So stop purporting the fucking "talent" meme because you gave up and want to make others feel just as bad as you.

But I didn't give up. I'm the dude who learned anatomy in a summer. Didn't you even read my post?

>>3106016
The people that deny talent are the ones that don't have any - they're driven by jealousy and greed to attack those that do. They're just trying to lower the bar, so they can include themselves in a group they don't belong in.

>>3096265
More precise: Art isn't learned, it's nurtured. Technique is learned. Anyone can learn technique (the whole point of Betty Edward's work), but that spark, that different way of seeing the ordinary, using those techniques, is what makes an artist.

Talent doesn't exi--

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2688647/

>>3103777
Anyone can learn to read, and write. Not everyone has the capability to write a classic novel.

>>3105454
Your bitterness at not having talent and your jealousy of those that do literally drips from your post. You're trying to crab pot art, because you don't have any real talent at art, and never will. Instead of accepting that, and keeping the hobby, but finding out what you ARE good at, you just sit here like a loathsome toad, badmouthing talent. You're pulling art down, because you can't reach it on your own merit.

Talent is a gift. You didn't get it. It's a cruel world, get over it, and go find something meaningful to do with your life. What you're doing now is meaningless and a waste of everyone's time. You're wallowing in self pity and childish anger, because you didn't get any artistic talent.

>>3107201
This is the most prestigious post I've ever read.

>>3107117
More crab potting. You're utterly full of shit.

"Skill" applies to technique. "Art" is more than just technique. It's a synthesis of skill, technique, intelligence, creativity, and perspective. "Art" is in the mind, and the heart. It's what differentiates some schlub painting some flowers clumsily, and someone's work hanging in a museum.

The insult here is you, trying to crab pot art, and lowering the bar to your level, so you can include yourself in a group you don't belong in.

>>3107117
This guy gets it.

>>3103669
90% of /ic/ can imply they are good for someone who don't know shit about drawing.

>>3107195
Shhh talent doesn't exist remember.

>>3107201
>Your bitterness at not having talent and your jealousy of those that do literally drips from your post.
I guess this is what they call projecting. How embarrassing for you that you gave everyone a peek into your own insecurities by trying to apply them all to me. It must suck to find out that you're shit at everything because of your own doing and not because you failed the dice roll at birth, so your projection and delusion is understandable.

>>3097601
Actually it is kind of true that in a month you can get noticeable progress if u put the hours not mindlessly like this guy said

Pic related is mine, i am disappointed in myself that i stopped drawing

>>3097601
>it's been nine days without a word back
This is what we get for being lazy americans

>>3107209
Skill and technique are the same thing, intelligence means you can learn skill/technique faster, creativity and perspective are subjective.

>>3105609

Then you'll never know.

Your talents may be in something you'd never ever think to try.

Talents are not interests. Talents are merely an expression of how your mind works. They're an expression of how you see and interact with the world. People naturally think in different ways, their minds make connections in different ways. What immediately makes sense to one person could be total nonsense to another person. That is the root of talent.

Nobody has an innate ability to draw, that's asinine. But someone can inherently grasp the underlying logical functions behind drawing, such as mental visualization.

This is why it's important to introduce children to a variety of skills early on, because the things they have aptitude for are things they will naturally develop an interest in.

That's how I developed my interest in art, which quickly developed into a passion. I tried it, I was good at it (relatively speaking), I responded positively to the feeling of being good at something and pursued it.

On the contrary, I've played guitar for 14 years and I have no talent for it. I can play decently enough but it has never been intuitive, or felt natural. 14 years later I still can't improvise. The music just isn't in me. There is no fire in my brain like there is with visual art. I pursue it in spite of being untalented because I enjoy the mental break from the labor of art.

Can someone rate my power girl??

>>3107599
you aren't talented a d you will never make it.

>>3107495
Is that from imagination or did you ref?

>>3107599
If your first try isn't pro worthy, sorry man.
No talent.

>>3109569
I did use a reference

>>3107201
Some of us aren't good at anything tho

>>3107201
>You're pulling art down, because you can't reach it on your own merit.

Yes, pretty much. Is there an issue?

>>3109617
If you've lived this long, you must be good at surviving and staying out of danger.

>>3107209
>some schlub painting some flowers clumsily

Why is the schlub assumed to be painting clumsily if there's nothing stopping him from acquiring technique?

>>3111088
>surviving
Unless he is living in a third world country with zero support from any family member, i wouldn't call it "surviving"

>>3111088
I am just some residue left behind by dysgenics

>>3103850
are you dead anon?

>>3103850
>>3111908
We did it!

>>3109625
Yeah, it's annoying

>>3096255
I did that too. Didn't work. Still draw like shit and have no clue what I'me doing. Waste of time.

>>3113943
Read it again. It essentially boils down to learn how to draw still life properly then move on to recreating things with forms which then leads to imagination.

>>3109569
>I did use a reference
Draw one from imagination then we'll talk.

>>3109609
see
>>3114562

>>3113943
I recognise that keyboard.

2 years

>>3115063
Do you now?
Where have you seen it before?

>>3115063
>>3115684
Answer my fucking questions.

>>3096199
3 years.
100 inking, 100 sceneries, 100 character-poses and 5 hours drawing. Every. Single. Day.

>>3117209
Is the 100 inking, 100 sceneries, 100 character-poses included in the 5 hours drawing or?

>>3117211
Not even. You'll become bald if you use this training method.
Look at this masterpiece. It's thanks to my training.

>>3117213
Thanks sensei, what do you draw for 5 hours though? Anything?

>>3117215
any-single-thing

I got anatomy down in about a year but still a long way to go.

>>3111908
Still here, I've got your back in a couple days

>>3096199
2 years and still learning

Every picture I see that I like or download, before I even get a chance to look at another, I will draw it. Even if it's difficult. Maybe I'll just copy one aspect of it. I copied a few chapters from manga artists I like. I went to find art that I thought I could never even imagine being as good as them and I would copy it. Sometimes I'd trace it first just to get an idea of how things are proportioned. It's okay to trace as long as you don't pass it off as your own. I always throw away my tracing. Never let tracing be your final work. Copying will help you see better. I take a sketchbook or pieces of copy paper with me everywhere I go. Waiting in line for your food to be ready? Draw. Don't wait for inspiration. Just draw. Even if you don't totally want to. Don't doodle mindlessly either, draw. Draw whatever is in front of you or just copy the form or try to study the perspective of the tables in the room. As you spend more time looking at things like this, you will be able to express your ideas onto paper easier and you won't have to rely on copying anymore. But it's still good to practice.

>>3118887
But it's sooooo hard to get drawing

>>3118888
Why? How? Do you not know what to draw or are you out of inspiration?

>>3118893
I'm not really too sure what to draw. There's so many places to start. /ic/ says perspective is a big thing to learn at first, but it feels so simplistic, I'm not really sure if I actually understand it or not. After perspective was construction, but construction feels like it's just preparation and isn't actually drawing. It's like trying to learn about how to learn the best, when you could just copy. But does copying have its limits? And where would you start with copying? There's too many things, it's hard to figure out.

>>3118908
Oh, okay. Well, I would look at other artists and decide what you want your art to look like. What kind of art do YOU want to make? Do you really like landscapes? Animals? Children? What do you like in general? Start with that, and look at real pictures of those things and look at artwork that you want your artwork to look like. One mistake I feel I made in learning is that I would look up like tutorials by people that I didni't particularly like their style. If you want to draw manga art, copy mangaka. If you want to draw like Kim Jung Gi, copy Kim Jung Gi. If you want to draw like so and so, copy so and so.

>>3118908
Oh, and as far as perspective and construction go, those are good things to practice in addition to copying other artists and getting inspired by them. Try putting them together. If you're practicing perspective, look at an artist's work that you like and find a piece they have that has perspective involved. etc etc etc

>>3118908
Start with your goals and work backwards from there.
What are your goals?

>>3118911
>>3118913
>>3118917
Thanks for all the help. I don't have any goals apparently. I didn't realize until you asked me. At least now I know what I need to do and that's get a goal. It's easy to say the other kinds of goals like, become an illustrator, concept artist and whatever. But those are too broad. All I know is I got to get gud.

post your workves

>>3101460
I don't believe in talent I believe in practice.

>>3119371
But why don't you believe in both? It's like saying you don't believe in Buddha but you believe in the Christian God.

>>3118908
too much tinking, not enough drawing. Now draw this, faggot.

And this

also this

and don't forget the house in this

>>3117229
Reminds me of Gunshow or Poptepippiku.

>>3118675
ok

/ic/ is full of retarded weeaboo posters

Prove me wrong

>>3103660
>>3107218
it is good you sore wanker, i cant draw for shit and that is definitely good. name one proportion thats off in that image. whats wrong with admitting some people just get a shortcut in life

>>3118887
>being the weirdo sketching while you're waiting for your burger

>>3119371
So naive...

>>3101460
>>3103654
>>3103669
>Talent
It doesn't really count when you're just just copy pasting an image of your favorite video game and you still manage to fuck the drawing up.

>>3103654
if it was an original concept I'd be impressed.

Some people can draw, some people can't. That's just the way it is, no use burying your head in the collective sand of people so desperately trying to avoid the special snowflake syndrome by believing anyone can do anything.

But if you love it you'll never really give it up. Just try to learn as much as you can from as many people as you can, and learn to sort through the useful bits from the bits that are shit or don't work for you. There will be people who post critiques that are well written and thought out, but sometimes they're not correct... Then there will be people who post one of two words of a legitimate problem in your art. Try to recognize the flaws in your work properly and don't get sidetracked by trying to please everyone. Art is equal parts subjective and objective.

Develop your own process, one that works for you and one you enjoy doing. If something works for someone else, it might not work for you. And for the love of geebus, get the hell off of this pit of a website, do your art, and live your life.

has anybody here started late, like late 20s? or at least drew often as a teen, stopped but then got back into it?

im trying to restart and looking through the materials in some of these threads and the stickies, but seeing that nightmare i put on paper and kids a decade younger blowing way past me is discouraging. Its a bitch boy outlook but i can shake it and that im gonna be like mid 30s before i start making shit i feel comfortable sharing

>>3121660
It honestly only takes like a year if you really focus in on just studying one thing.

>>3121663

thats my boat, maybe its myopic and a low ceiling, but i generally only care about drawing characters (and obviously everything that comes with it like depth/form/perspective) and general linework, like the better posts inside the sketchbook threads on here. Like this image right here

>>3121574
If it doesn't matter then go find someone without a drawing talent and tell that person to copy paste an image.

>>3103650
We're all born the same? chris chan has been drawing for over 10 years and made no improvement from his childlike drawings.
>> but chris chan has no fundies
I drew better than chris when I was 12 without any understanding of fundies.
>> but chris chan is autistic
There's plenty of regular people with the same issue as chris, and plenty of autistic "savants" aswell.

People have different taste, creativity, visual memory, intuitive, observational skills, concentration. Some people simply enjoy art and the grind more to the point where they can do it for hours everyday and not get burned out. I only passively enjoy art and can only do this for so long before I become stressed to the point of doing it less and resenting drawing, or my back starts hurting.

I've had problems with reading speed & comprehension since I was in high school despite spending most of my time reading. I've tested recently and in high school below average reading speed/comprehension. That is a testimonial to the differences in humans. I'm obviously not talented when it comes to reading.

To say we're all equal is cope. Some people are more intuitive, & some people struggle and spend more time to get to the same place as others.

Interesting discussion you've got going on. It seems like there's an inclination towards extremes here – with raw inborn talent on the one hand, and pure trainable skill on the other.

Inborn talent implies a natural disposition towards certain characteristics that are essential components of a given artform, such as observational skills, memory and imagination in the case of drawing. However, these very same traits are most certainly trainable – in other words, it would seem that talent is something that can be learned, greatly faciliating ones technical skills.

>>3096216
>talent

>>3123367
You need talent to draw such perfection

Talent exists but in of itself doesn't mean anyone will be great or even good at something. Those people will have proficiency and will be way ahead of others in their same field.

However, if the talented stagnate and don't improve/learn constantly they'll eventually be outpaced by those who work harder.

Thats the short and the skinny of it.

Don't be a Freddie Moore, be a Frank Frazetta.

>>3123412
Looks like ordinary manga to me

>>3126265
>>3123412
the line between sarcasm and honest opinions is blurring

>>3096199
get off anime kisa

>>3126349
What?

>>3128383
its me, Dad

>>3103818

>>3130662
Thanks anon, only took like three weeks.

>>3105503
>Maybe go back and try to learn to draw again, this time keeping in mind that your struggle is entirely internalized and the only thing stopping you is yourself.

Quality post.
I'm not sure if people should think about art in such a linear way though. Anyone could write a book if they just sat down and did it, but to make it good and learn about the finer points takes time and experience, a lot of which you can only learn by doing it wrong the first few times and either diagnosing what's missing yourself or having it pointed out to you, if that makes sense.

I just see a lot of people who think about art like you need to get to a certain level before you can draw and paint what you want to and it's important to do that stuff now. There'll never be a point when you feel like you're good enough, etc.

>>3105503
>tfw had shitty people that kept spouting modern art meme and impressionism to imitate
No wonder Japan has it so much better.

>>3096199
How important is drawing from imagination when kids are actually trying to replicate real life in their drawings?

>>3118675
it's been two weeks anon

>>3096199
I just hit the 4year mark, and im still shit. I finally decided to get out my comfort zone and start drawing from life. Rip. I'll let you know how it goes around december

bump

>>3096199
How long did it take you to learn what? How did you learn what? What kind of stupid questions are you asking?
If you mean drawing, you learn that by the age of 2 if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure your parents put a pencil in your hand and you went all out on the paper.

>>3133299
More like, it's been two months.

>>3096199
I've been learning for as long as I've been drawing: almost 7 years

I read books, looked for free resources, critiqued my own work, studied anatomy, looked at better artists

>>3138344
Would you mind posting your work? Anything would do if you want to stay anon. Just curious.

>>3138344
Seconding >>3138962

>>3133299
I threw a few in the sketchbook thread, just for you anon. Sorry for the wait, I've been dealing a lot of real life things

>>3101460
>I could be a really good artist by now
Then why aren't you a really good artist? You admit that you're lazy, so why not drop the sloth and go and make it?

>>3121660
Starting again now, was sketching on and off along the years with long ass breaks in between, but all i know is how to doodle same face animu grills, not even good looking...
I more or less have a plan, but for now I'm just building up work ethic so i allow myself to fool around and draw w/e just to keep myself drawing daily for couple hours.
Also, i think it's more realistic that you can be a working individual by mid 30ies if you're serious about it.

>>3140901
Because I'm a worthless piece of shit and everything I do ends up being shit, no matter what it is. Motivation is an issue.

>>3140947
The why don't you lazily git good?

>>3140878
Nice you actually delivered.

>>3140878
Anon you are a treasure

>>3097601
Well?