/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

I'll start again tomorrow

I SWEAR

>falling for the real job meme
You must suck pretty bad at art then anon

Don't worry OP, no job will be viable in the future since robots will do everything anyway. You'll be poor regardless, my friend.

No internet artists I know are married, have a property, have a car, or have their own health insurance.

Most are very young very few are in their 30's, and a lot stopped drawing for unknown reasons.

Art is something that you can only get good once, after it becomes repetitive or dull to you, you start to lose it and forget everything.

>>3085619
>I will be stuck working odd jobs to make ends meet when I'm past 40.

I'm 46, working shifts in a Walmart and still painting. I had the chance to do other things but never could apply myself to other careers. I've even found doing art hard work. I got a degree and do some freelance commercial illustration work which is not very well paid but I've never wavered as to my primary artistic direction which is oil painting.

If you do have doubts I would suggest you take another career. There's certainly no guarantee of financial success or recognition if that's what you seek; you can work until you die in complete obscurity but when you really believe in what you're capable of/doing why would you give a fuck about wasting your time doing anything else?

>>3085619
Conservatism only makes sense if the values you're trying to preserve are believable to you. If you believe that you shouldn't be pursuing a career because it doesn't give you security or a lot of money, then does that mean that you believe that money and security should be pursued before anything else in life? If you don't, then you're just letting society push its values onto you.

>>3085619

You best be working your ass off. J-O-B's are quickly becoming not a thing. It's now being called "gigs" with a workplace being casually friendly, no dress code, coffee and donut adult parties. Automation will eliminate many jobs.

We're heading for a future uncertain.

>>3085632
>Art is something that you can only get good once, after it becomes repetitive or dull to you, you start to lose it and forget everything.
Anon, you really should not be doing art, at all. Your mindset clearly demonstrates this.

>>3085637
>We're heading for a future uncertain.

How the fuck can they automate artistic vision and creativity? I see nearly all STEM jobs going before they get anywhere near artists. How can a machine channel the zeitgeist or envision future culture?

I'm a hobbyist, so no.

That said art is still profitable if you know what to do with it, the "starving artist" meme is in regards to "artists". If you're working in a technical field or something like design, you'll be making enough money to be happy with.

Game design/animation is a huge market, requires thousands of animators per project for example.
Technical drawings for vehicles is another field that is a huge employer of artists.

>>3085643
No no I meant work hard on drawing because a traditional 9 to 5 is soon coming to an end.

>>3085619
I don't see why getting a "real job" and doing art as a hobby is seen as a bad thing. I've always found doing art for commissions to be much less enjoyable than personal projects, in addition to sucking out my creative energy. I'm trying to go into medicine while doing art as a hobby, I'd rather have decent cash and limited time for personal projects than be dirt-poor and have my days stuffed with drawing for other people. No shame in just doing something just to enjoy it.

>>3085648
>I've always found doing art for commissions to be much less enjoyable than personal projects

The trick is to sell your personal projects in a gallery and not have to be dictated to.

>>3085654
lol, good luck. if you manage to sell any art at all then you'll be selling that exact same art forever. do you think jackson pollock drunk himself into a tree because he liked only doing dribble paintings?

>>3085619

I don't see it. In fact, I think it's becoming more left-leaning because the corporate sector promotes and funds liberal ideals, even if they lose money from it. Send your portfolio anytime because your ideals are secure for now.

Right-leaning content is so popular that corporations had to resort to demonitizing that content.

>>3085645
This

STEM is being shoved down everyone's throats right now because the powers that be want to drive down the wages. pharmacy and law used to be pushed as hard as STEM was and now look what happened to everyone that followed their advice. pharmacists have been mostly replaced by dispensing machines and $9/hr "pharmacy techs" and most the law grads don't make much more than any other major.

meanwhile automation will continue to get rid of all the low wage and monotonous jobs (retail, taxis, delivery, etc.) and we will enter another renaissance where the arts will be appreciated once more.

I have loved drawing since I was a kid but I wanted the normie lifestyle of being married and owning property so I did not pursue art as a career. If you have industry connections or an opportunity to go to a good art school in the field you're interested in without going into debt then by all means go, but if that doesn't apply to you you'll have to prioritize whether you want reliable employment and stability or art as a career.

>>3085877
STEM is a fucking meme, more STEM people will not solve hard problems faster. One genius engineer is better than 6 mediocre ones, this isn't labor. One brilliant algorithm can obliterate an entire industry. The workforce of the present/near future is liquid, stability in work is gone. In 20 years working will be something only a "privileged" class will be able to do while everyone else collects UBI and attempts to live as economically as possible.

>>3085619
>blaming conservatives for your lack of tallent

lel

>>3085619
>Conservatives don't like art because they're too busy shooting guns, persecuting minorities, and saluting the flag.

Yes. Blame the conservative party for your having no plan or drive. What a cop out.

>>3085619
>sound like an advice that should be told to people not working in factories or in an industrial setting.

Lul, those jobs are the ones that will be the first to be replaced to automation. If you live in America, manufacturing jobs just aren't going to be stable.

If you really, really want a blue coloar job, stick with a trade like car repair/plumbing

>>3085619
NGMI excuse #364572: /pol/ told me to quit art

>>3085619
The best and most economically sound artists all were under conservative or religious regimes because consevativism improves the chances of success for self-employment endeavors and ever successful artist was also a successful businessman.

>>3085654
>sell your personal projects in a gallery
Literally killed Basquiat, and figurativelly killed Warhol, Pollock and Lichtenstein.

>>3085619
I had a dream that I could go working for the game industry.

I hate the direction the industry is going now.

>>3086326
capitalism and conservatism aren't the same thing

>>3086333
Renaissant Rome wasn't liberal. Venice might have been, but Rome was conservative.
Which one produced a ridiculous ammount of state/church-sponsored art? Which one got overrun by jews and jihadists that ruined it's economy in behalf of their own?

And every american art boom happened during conservative presidencies.

But I just like to draw stuff

why can't the rest of the world be like nipland and have an insatiable desire for illustration based media... ITS JUST NOT FAIR

>>3085632
"I am still learning." - Michelangelo

You should study the old masters if you truly feel working on art is dull and there are no more fields you can till. Read their journals and notes and think about how you can apply or learn their ideas.

>>3085619
Same boat. I interrupted university because I've been ill and after the worst had passed I was so stressed about being too far behind that I felt like choking etc. I ended up quitting and I've been depressed since. Since that boat had sailed I decided to make a career out of something I always liked doing but after a few years I realized the field is absurdly competitive and I'm not learning that fast... The clock is ticking, I'm 30 this year, almost no work experience... Lately I haven't had any enjoyment from art because it's getting as stressful as university back then. I take meds for depression but after all these years they don't help anymore. Legitimately thinking about suicide although I probably won't because I've got things to care for.

>>3085619
If you have lost the will to draw then take a few months off and come back when you're ready. Art/drawing can be like a cold mistress at times. This mistress does not always treat you well.

>>3085920
>working class won't exist anymore and we can just chill like nobles
Sounds good to me.

>>3085619
>>3085654
>>3086345
Have you guys heard of Artist Alley? Ever venture into the AA threads in /cgl ? People under are 25 making thousands of profit at each con they go to. There's a few 30+ people are are making up to 10 grand per convention.

There's a HUGE AA scene in the US and a lot of more business saavy artists with decent skills are making huge profits off it.

Commission pricing doesn't make sense. Let's say you're moderaly popular and charge 150-200 for a full color commissions. Instead you if you sell prints of it at conventions you could be making thousands over a few cons. A 11x17 print costs something like 50 - 70 cents to make, and sells for $15-20. You only need to sell 10 ish prints for it to be start overtaking the money you can make from a typical commission.

There was an artist I talked to at AX who was only at his second con (AX being his second) and sold 500 prints at $20 price point (with a buy 2 get 1 free deal). He had virtually no web presence or online fanbase either.

There'a also the patreon route. If this shitty sakimichan copy with a bit of marketing skills can make $2k a month, so can you:
https://www.patreon.com/customwaifus

/ic/ barely has any knowledge about making money from art

>>3086449
Golden post. Thanks anon.

>>3086449
I've seen con photos of booths with a big wall setup that shows off all the artist's work. The artist sitting by their table looking at their phone and no one is near their table. The art isn't even bad. Good enough for normies. Is it really that profitable? Still not an option for people outside of the U.S.

Anyway, with everything getting replaced by robots and AI. Being an artist right now is a pretty safe bet regarding earning a living for many many years to come.
If you limit yourself to just "muh vidya game/movie job", then good fucking luck being a broke ass eating cardboard for 3 meals a day.

Sure you might have to be a freelancer that has deadlines at 3am in your timezone. Working up to 16 hours a day. At least you have a job and at least it isn't flipping burgers.

>>3086423
free market economy
fewer and fewer are unable to consume anymore

no you will go to university for 10 years and work 4 or 5 part time jobs with different qualifications

I'm not suggesting any commie idea like universal basic income, I think that will happen when humans will do more harm than good by working "robot jobs"

>>3085643
Artistic vision and creativity doesnt mean shit
It's an annoying side effect of humanity that innovation has to go through.
If you can get a robot to imitate 75% of it for half the cost (more like 5%) of the human then ur ass is the first one out the door.

>>3085619
Your prospects weren't any better under liberals either. Stop being a retarded faggot.

>>3086449
this

i highly recommend the "how to make money with illustration" series on SVSLearn, they go over stuff like this in great detail. artists have no clue how to treat their work like a business.

I don't know what the fuck to do /ic/, in a few weeks my family be without any income.

I thought I could learn programming and 3D along with practicing my art as I've been for the past few years, but if I can't even get a minimum wage job what chances do I have of getting it in a specific field?

This is literally killing me, I'm so worried I've hardly slept these past two weeks and the only thing I can do is study and grind. What the hell do I do?

>>3087595

people were saying good things about redbubble here - >>3077448

>>3087595
Dude, is anyone in your household making money,? Your here worrying about art?

>>3087596
I'll check that out, thanks.

>>3087685
My pop's the money maker, but soon he's going to have surgery and be unable to work anymore which means no more money.

I just thought maybe I could get good enough in at least one of the three fields I'm studying to get a job by that time, but it's looking like that's not a possibility with jobs requiring degrees and work experience for entry level stuff.

I'm losing my mind here, I can hardly sleep anymore because I'm at a loss at what to do. I've been trying all year to get jobs but not even fast food places will hire me. I just don't know what to do, I don't have enough time and everyday I get closer to ruin.

>>3086664
>how to make money with illustration
>method 1: sell tutorials to the gullible

>>3087700
Woof brah. If your telling the truth I feel you. I can't really think of not being able to get a job, not even at a warehouse or anything? I never had a problem getting low income jobs cause everyone in my family is working somewhere and their all good workers. You could try professional beggar. Like, dress up like a homeless person and go to a far off grocery store and beg. Idk, I'm not helpful. I expected at related stuff here.

>>3087709
>You could try professional beggar.
You mean an artist?

>>3087709
It's alright, I just have to keep trying I guess. If worst comes to worst I could probably find a way to get myself murdered so my family can claim the life insurance. Knowing my luck I'd probably survive the attempts.

>>3087722
He said professional.

>>3085632
so american

>>3085632
>>3085635
I'm more or less a nazi, and I'm an artist.
I also own my own house, and have a steady income.

I'm currently deciding whether or not to dedicate the next year exclusively to drawing and working out, or if I should slave away at my job for the next three years and try to earn enough money to get into real estate.

>>3086512
>I've seen con photos of booths with a big wall setup that shows off all the artist's work. The artist sitting by their table looking at their phone and no one is near their table. The art isn't even bad. Good enough for normies. Is it really that profitable? Still not an option for people outside of the U.S.

Just because its profitable doesn't mean its not competitive. You still have to be better than a good portion of your peers in some aspect (niche, gimmick, marketing, or pure skill) to make the big money. For example, Anime Expo, arguably the #1 anime convention in the west, went from 200 artist alley tables in 2015 to 600 artist alley tables in the 2016, the tables were sold out almost immediately, and even after upping the price for 2017 the tables were gone in < 30 seconds when they opened up registration.

AX table prices were something like 400 for a single tiny 6 foot table and 700 for 2 tables. Combined with LA's high hotel price (4th of July weekend too) the overall cost to table at AX could be close to $800-$1500 for many people, yet AA is always completely full and people even fly in from other countries to attend the AA because its THAT profitable.

Almost every convention is increasing their Artist Alley size every year, and most went from FCFS to juried because demand for AA tables have risen so much that they get 1000 people trying to take 150 slots even for smaller conventions.

Of course, sometimes conventions are poorly run or circumstances causes sales to be bad,and there have been quite a few cons this year that are notorious for that, but overall con attendances have been going up, and more and more money have been flowing into the AA, so its completely up to you to take your cut out of that pile.

>>3086512
>>3087890
This artist started drawing 4 years ago, and since years ago started doing vlogs of his experience going to conventions:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9HOTRot8gYDzaWFArRUh-mvIQMN5GCpY

This year alone he's going to something like 40 conventions. He's made profit at every single one so far, even the shitty ones where he won't go back to next year. His art isn't really that amazing, but he has some really interesting gimmicks (like his every pokemon ever drawn collage) and makes up for it in how he sells himself and his art.

He's the ONLY person I've seen standing up at Artist Alleys and actively engaging people that pass by, and it makes a huge difference when it comes to sales compared to most artists sitting behind his print wall playing a DS or working on a sketch book.

He mentioned in one of his videos that at AX alone he sold 300 of his 11x17 Pokemon collages, and his prints are $20 each.

I just started conventions this year and I learned a ton from just watching his videos on what to do.

>>3087896
>Look, this guy sells (illegal) fanart for a living and he does well! lel XD

I draw cause I feel like doing. That's as deep as it needs to go.

Fuck career. Fuck purpose. Just draw.

>>3087709
Are you any good at drawing? or design? You could try going to a tattoo parlor with your portfolio or do some freelance logo design.

>>3087595
I'm in the same boat as you. I can't even get a job at fucking walmart but I walk into walmart and wonder how such retards get to work there. I really don't want to lose my PC setup and go homeless.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Animator/Salary/cb6baf4b/Toronto-ON

>>3088007
Did you watch any of his videos? I just watched his 2017 Fanime vlog and he only had two pieces of fanart. Everything else was original.

>>3085637
>>3085877
>>3086184
>Automation will eliminate many jobs.

Less than you think. And it'll be awhile.

I work in manufacturing. My place uses CNC machines. People still have to load them, unload them, and change tools. We need setup guys to make sure the parts are good. We need guys to do the mapping on the machines themselves. We need QC people to run the CMMs and make sure the parts are actually good. We need people to program the CMMs. We need inspection. We need assembly. We need SO MANY THINGS.

Could most of these be replaced by automation? Sure. But that would be so expensive that you'd have to be retarded to do it. And you would still need people to do maintenance and QC. We'll be safe for awhile yet.

lmao i gave up art like 2 years ago

>>3087896
>like his every pokemon ever drawn collage
Holy shit what kind of crazy dedication does this guy have? That's like over 1000 finished drawings.

>>3089095
He's actually redid it at least once, because he didn't want to just stack the new Pokemon on the edge and also the quality of his earlier pokemon was not up to par.

He's just an example of a guy who basically decided to start from scratch (he was a car mechanic before) and got to where he is purely with hard work and dedication.

>>3085920
>One genius engineer is better than 6 mediocre ones, this isn't labor.
Are you trolling, or are you genuinely retarded? You think engineers sit in an office all day, trying to solve mathematical riddles? You think von Braun built all those rockets himself?

It's not solely the conservative's fault, it's the american's fault. Neither left or right understands art in america. Faggots like norman rockwell aren't artist, they're just illustrators. Americucks should know better about the meaning and purpose of art.

>>3085619

Get a patreon you enormous faggot. You probably do modern art anyway. Lefty shitstains can't into real aesthetics. Just fucking nonsense poured on canvas and call it "art".

If you wanna do it do it. I'd say most people who do are have another job or at least teach. ( I personally wouldn't consider graphic design or illustration a particularly satisfying career as an artist either).
People being nice about it isn't going to give you a successful career. If you really want it just do it until you can't. (Of course switching strategies here and there may be needed.)

>>itt samefags giving redundant so called advice who haven't done shit themselves.

>>3089531
>>itt some faggot know-it-all cracks the case! but forgets that people are just answering a question.

>>3089693
Giving "advice" about something you know nothing about or something you've never actually done is absolutely unadultered utter RETARDED. It's why /ic/ is the biggest circle jerk of faggotry with the same questions being asked over and over and over again and nothing ever being solved.

>>OP
If you want to learn how to be successful and you come to /ic/ you're wasting your time. Go find the artists who are doing it and ask them stop wasting your time with the trash in this thread.

>>3090093
Report and hide.

i have been having the same realization. im now aiming towards a career in education. its not all that bad of a decision. Art will always be there. you can always come home to it. but if you try to create a full living off the arts, you will only find yourself a financial slave to what you used to love.

>liberal dipshit playing the victim

Good. Feel bad shithead. When did you ever feel pity for conservative artists when you and your shitlib friends were freezing them out of your gay art cliques?
I hope you end up as destitute as your education you cuck faggot. Oh wait, but conservatism is on the rise so youll be able to get a job.
Kindly fuck off with this sageable thread.

>>3085628
Hello fellow Jim fan

there are real jobs everywhere, available all the time.

what, do you have debts piling up? dont tell me youre trying to make it without being a NEET

>>3090136
this

>>3090136
>
what were conservative artists making portraits of ronald raegan?

>>3085619
The best you can do is to try and be happy.

>>3085627
>You must suck pretty bad at art then anon

This isn't actually true. Everyone blends in these days.

Isn't called pareto or something. There's only like 6 people in a given niche/market who are profiting.

>>3085619
Then make patriotic art.

>>3090215
Way to illustrate my point faggot.
If you get marginalized by conservatives you'll fucking deserve it.