/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Here's a clearer definition of style without all the colors and rendering. Just objects purposefully exaggerated. But what drove the artist towards this style? Is it just symbol drawing?

Learn how things actually work and look then push them towards what you find aesthetically pleasing. You can't stylize effectively if you have no knowledge and skill.

First off, symbol drawing is a meme. Its code for "they're not drawing realism perfectly"

Second, style is basically your own personal habits you develop over the years. You can mimic other people's styles and incorporate it into your own, because often times things get refined because they're appealing. So they become popular. But even in those styles your own shortcuts and habits show up and define a more specific thing.

Take sycra for example, most people would call his weird thing anime style, but its distinct enough that you can tell the difference between him and whichever mangaka you choose.

>>2842096

I think I hate the word symbol drawing. Symbol drawings not a real thing. By it's own definition it's the idea of drawing details from what you just know

>this is an eye so I'ma draw an eye

but if you're keeping in mind the idea of things having perspective, dimension, and overlapping, then this really isn't a thing. It's something people who have never drawn may do.

Anyways style is p much aesthetic continuity in your art. For some it probably happens through years if being influenced by other sources, and then just adding fundamentals to what they originally liked, for others I imagine it can be anything from a happy accident, to messing around enough. Must of it's about exaggeration and consistency though.

>>2842128
>>2842109

So symbol drawing is a meme and I can just keep doing shitty life drawings?

How do I differentiate the truth from the memes?

>>2842096
>>2842098
That's not symbol drawing. Those cars are in perspective.
Before someone learns to "see" artistically, they'll probably draw an eye as this sort of shape: <o>
That's just the default symbol that represents an eye to them. They didn't really draw an eye, they drew a symbol a step removed from an eye. But they think they're drawing an eye.
As I understand it, symbol drawing is basically drawing a symbolic representation of your subject in place of a perceptual representation, because you haven't developed an artistic understanding of 3D objects through the fundamentals(specifically perspective and forms). You don't know how to "see" your subject properly, so your mind refers you to a simpler, abstract icon of the thing, and you end up drawing that instead.
Now, a skilled artist could use this <o> symbol in their work and it wouldn't be "symbol drawing", because they are they are doing so consciously. They aren't doing it on accident because they lack the knowledge/skill.

>>2842109
>First off, symbol drawing is a meme. Its code for "they're not drawing realism perfectly"
No, it's not. You can draw cartoons without ever symbol drawing, such as in OP's car examples.
>Symbol drawings not a real thing. By it's own definition it's the idea of drawing details from what you just know
No, it's not just drawing what you know.
Symbol drawing is definitely a real thing. It's when you draw a preconceived "symbol" instead of what should actually be drawn.

Anime side-mouth is an example of symbol drawing. So is drawing every single character's eyes the exact same way, or only drawing figures in 3/4 view (something many web-comics are guilty of).

I'm tired of fuckers like you giving people misinformation.

>>2842098
That would not qualify as symbol drawing. Notice that the fronts of the cars vary, the shapes of the mirrors and lights vary, and the shapes of the car bodies themselves vary; the artist hasn't created a singular symbol of "what I think cars look like" and repeat it, he does actual construction, which is why he can rotate those cars in 3d space. If every single car was drawn in 3/4 perspective with the same features, then yes, that would be symbol drawing.

>>2842096
>How do people develop styles? How does someone "find" their style?
Experimentation.

>>2842192
>>2842198
Its a meme because its a pointless term that doesn't mean anything.
Symbol drawing is just not knowing what something looks like because you haven't analyzed it enough. Its not some mistake beginners make, its the same process as drawing from imagination, just without the experience and time seeing the same thing 1000x times.

>side mouth is symbol drawing
and proof you have no idea what you're talking about.
side mouth is a symptom of easy animation, not having to move the jaw.
none of the things you mentioned is symbol drawing.
note symbols and symbol drawing are not the same thing.

>>2842192
Don't listen to this foolish anon. Symbol drawing is not a meme.
Keep in mind to draw objects the way they are instead of the way they appear to be. In other words, think in 3D space.

>>2842200
It's not just a meme. The term means that you're repeating the same shapes instead of expanding your visual library and developing your ability to visualize and construct 3d forms. Symbol drawing hurts artists who draw fictional or cartoony work the most, because it's harder for them to correct their work with real-world studies.

>side mouth is a symptom of easy animation, not having to move the jaw.
I'm well aware that it's caused by low budgets, but it's still a symbol -- a symbol repeated as if it were a piece of clip art, regardless of how appropriate it is for the situation -- you retard. Drawing symbols is symbol drawing, I don't know where idiots like you get your misinformation, but this is a pretty simple and self-evident fact, and any literature on the subject will tell you.

Another way to describe symbol drawing would be something like >pic related. Except instead of clip art being pasted into your piece from another file, the clip art is in your mind, an extremely specific shape you have memorized and force into the page rather than drawing what should actually be there (or trying anything new).

Please stop spreading your brain-dead misinformation.

>>2842192
>How do I differentiate the truth from the memes?

By going to real art sites for advice and coming here solely for keks.

>>2842198

Anime side mouthing is really more laziness than anything.

>>2842208
That is also a huge part of the problem. There is no definition to symbol drawing. It's just a catch all term to apply to anyone who's not drawing correctly.
I've had this argument multiple times, and each time symbol drawing gets a new definition to fit whoever is complaining that it's totally a real thing.

>>2842096
>>2842197
> I'm guessing those artists know how to draw from life, yet choose to symbolize things a certain way... is that normal?
I think so. It's hard to define exactly what "style" really is, but I generally think it's a tendency toward certain shapes, certain motifs, a way of bending the fundamentals. And then these ideas and "stylistic rules" can be applied to virtually any subject and you'll get that certain stylization of the subject. I'm not sure how it emerges because I don't have much of a style myself...
Though I do notice that I just enjoy drawing certain exaggerations. If I were to continue doing that and experimenting with it, maybe I could develop a style from it. Some styles I imagine are very deliberately designed as well.

>>2842208
>>2842212
The way I've seen it used here is usually referring to beginners at representational drawing, to talk about the first big leap they need to take, which is to separate their mind's conditioned abstractions from what they actually see. I don't think it literally means "any drawing of a symbol". As I've seen it, it usually has to mean the person is trying to draw representationally but is failing and relying on symbols. I usually see it referring to facial features, I'm guessing because we have sort of cultural symbols that represent those things. Like trying to draw a heart but instead drawing because that's the "common symbol" for a heart.
Is that not how you guys have seen it mostly used?

>>2842212
My definition hasn't changed in all the years I've known the term. I haven't ever hashed out an extremely specific definition of my own because I've never had anyone argue with it, until I started seeing people on /ic/ call it a meme.

It stands out in an individual's work when, for example, you're seeing the same eyes on different characters/in different pieces. In one image the eye will look quite right, in the next image the head will be at a different angle but the eye will be the same as before.

Whether it's the eye, mouth, nose, or the entire head, when the same shape is repeated because the artist isn't actually treating the form as 3d and constructing it in proper perspective - that's what I mean by symbol drawing.

And the issue IS a mistake beginners make, and often don't even realize. My roommate (who's not an artist) linked me a deviantart gallery where nearly every figure had the same jawline, and it was jarring to me that each head was within a few degrees of a 3/4 view (because the jawline was a 3/4 view), I had to point it out to him.

>>2842228
>Like trying to draw a heart but instead drawing [heart symbol] because that's the
oh, my unicode heart didn't show up.
Well, just imagine a heart symbol, you know how it looks (and so does everyone, which is why beginners might rely on it)

>>2842229
I'm not saying that's not your definition or that that's not a problem artists face. But when people say symbol drawing it doesn't always mean what you imply. That's why I call it a meme. Because people throw the word out constantly here, and honestly it doesn't mean shit.
So when you see people asking "is this symbol drawing?" It's basically asking if it's just bad. The symbol drawing most people refer to is something that goes away once you get a decent visual library, but it's not so much a technique as just someone not having experience.

And sure, you could draw for years and still do it, but you're not trying to get better either so that doesn't really count.

>>2842228
Yes, that's what I meant by "clip art." Like drawing an emoji of an eye rather than an actual eye.

>>2842232
>But when people say symbol drawing it doesn't always mean what you imply. That's why I call it a meme. Because people throw the word out constantly here, and honestly it doesn't mean shit.
>So when you see people asking "is this symbol drawing?" It's basically asking if it's just bad.

Yeah, that's fucked up. Kind of like people misusing the word "jealousy" so much it's now being listed as a synonym for "envy." Educate people when the misuse the term, or we'll lose it, and everyone will be worse off.

>>2842242
Nothing lost then. Linguistic is the most boring art anyway. Illustrations make a much more powerful language.

>>2842251
How high are you right now?

>>2842098
>Is it just symbol drawing?

Why do you insist to use this term if you clearly have no idea what it means?

>>2842096
>How do people develop
They don't. They just steal from somebody you've never heard of.

>>2842242
Except it never had a meaning. One artist said it one time in a single book.

>>2842446

"""style"""

So lemme ask you guys: does style come more from constructionist/imagination drawing? Or is it developed from realism, THEN exaggeration?

A couple posters mentioned a visual library which I imagine has to be built from constructing forms and understanding 3D space on a 2D surface.

But drawing realistically doesn't leave room for experimentation because the goal is always realistic. Whereas constructing objects from life forces the artist to study life, but they're not trying to be realistic--instead trying to study form and perspective and such. I'm guessing it's a mix with more importance leaning towards the imaginative/constructionist route?

I do not wanna be drawing Proko kanga's for the rest of my life.

>>2842096
The real question is: how so people develop taste?

>>2842547
by painting cute grills

>>2842545
You'll never have room for style if you're going straight realism. But going realism is the pleb route anyways.
Realism is just so you have a familiar base in reality before doing random nonsense that people actually care for.

>>2842922
this.

>>2842922
>>2842923
You guys/gals are my heros. I've asked this question a million times over but at last I see the truth.

Proko's kanga was my wake up call. Drawing from life is important, but it shouldn't take up the majority of my time.

I just hope I can git gud enough to share advice here in /ic/ one day in the future

>>2842547
taste is literally preference.
>i like this over that

you have it already, it's just a matter of refining it. if you try to make a style out of everything you like, you'll end up making a frankenstein monster with no direction.

Style is an artist's personal design sensibilities, symbol drawing is not the same as style.

>>2842966
But styles come from generalizing certain features like hands, eyes, feet... thus they turn into "symbols" of sorts?

Or does it go deeper than that?

>>2843006
It goes deeper than that.

You see.

Every artist exerts out atoms when they draw called the Newton Gaviator Maciat Instance. This is unique to each and every person, but few can exert them in great quantities. It mixes with the medium that the artist is focused on and fuses to form something that holds the personality and instinct of the artist. This is why sometimes you will draw and it comes out look super good, but then all the other times, it comes out looking horrible. You must learn how to harness the power of the atoms and used focused strokes to correctly place them in specific patterns that allow the atoms to bind strongly with your art. Unfortunately, it seems many people are blind to the sight of these atoms and can only see about 1% of them. This has to do with how the eyes may or may not have an additional cone. Why the additional come hasn't always been passed on through humanity is unclear, but perhaps they were purged during the Age of Faith for having abilities greater than any man should hold at that time. Anyways, we as artists can train our eyes and our brains to take notice of these atoms. It's very slight but even a small bit goes a long way. That's why it's very crucial to do still lifes and stare at them for an extended period of time. By doing so, you'll take in more of these atoms and hopefully be able to adapt to noticing them more within the future. Photos and images only capture a set amount and therefore are not as strong as actually seeing an object in life. The hand also has to be trained to be able to move accurately and firmly so as to not waste these atoms for the artist must recharge every few hours. Some artists are able to hold a large amount and project their art work continuously, but there are few of those types of people within the world. Luckily, if you train with high level artists, sometimes they can rub off their atoms onto you in which you can steal their ability and use it in your own artwork.

>>2843016
(You)

>>2843006
"symbol drawing" is not knowing what things really look like and drawing symbols instead because that's all you know.
"symbol drawing" is used here is to refer to a beginner artist who has not developed their observation skills and so only knows symbols for things. see pic, left is symbol drawing, right is a simple attempt at observational drawing.
developing a style isn't coming up with symbols, it's making designs. developing a consistent-feeling design language of 3D forms, 2D shapes, colors, line, texture, and so on.

>>2843016

U wot m8?

>>2843024
But symbol drawing can be stylized.

>>2843035
in the case of stylistic symbols, it's design, not "symbol drawing"

>>2843016
This is complete bullshit but somehow its still good advice

>>2842198
Anime side-mouth has nothing to do with symbol drawing. That's just a way to animate the character is talking without moving the chin.

As to why illustrators dude it is beyond me. But animators due it to save budget.