/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>2807706
>You guys told me that I needed to learn anatomy first, and I did

No, you didn't if you can't put two and two together and experiment to to find the solution to the moe problem.

>>2807716
this. OP i believe you smarter than a total fucking retard.

>>2807706
>fastest

ngmi

>>2807716
>No, you didn't if you can't put two and two together

what and what together?
Human anatomy and anime anatomy are totally different. You told me that learning one would help me understand the other, but it's the total opposite, and each needs to be learned seperately.

>>2807723

Do both at the same time but know when enough is enough and your limitations else you waste valuable time.

>>2807723
in all my years of art, i have never heard the phrase "anime anatomy" and you want to know why, because its the same fucking muscles. Im too lazy to explain, but here

>>2793626
>>2793633

>>2807723
>Human anatomy and anime anatomy are totally different
It's literally the same anatomy.They only differ in proportions.

>>2807723

You're probably talking about stylized shapes found in manga art. Yes, there are certain conventions and stylization of shapes going on. that is particular to manga. No, studying anatomy and figure drawing at a atelier alone won't make you good at drawing appealing mango/animu. You need the foundational aspects of construction (krenz, vilppu, proko stuff etc.) to create convincing figures but you also need to copy the manga artists you wish to draw similar to. This is called building a visual library.

>Concerned about style first and not the fundamentals and how to draw

>ever caring about style and not developing it through your subconscious

are you some sort of fag?
If you worry about style no wonder you never see improvement you idiot.

Sure harada never studied anatomy but you think the fucking dude looked at references enough to figure out how long legs should be where the thighs are in proportion to how long legs are?

>>2807774
>never studied
>looked at references
>stuff about visual library
Oh, shit, I get it. The whole "you have to study Loomis etc" isn't like a "YOU HAVE TO" but more a "you'll spend less time trying to figure out things if you" type of thing

>>2807706
I know what you mean OP, I'm in the same boat as you with semi realistic humanoids and shit. The thing is, even knowing construction and anatomy won't magically make you a mango artist, sure it will help but stylization is a whole other skill set that you need to learn. There's two extremes

>Working on the classical fundamentals while totally neglecting stylization
>Working on stylization while totally neglecting the fundies

The obvious answer is: do both faget. While on here the emphasis is on the classic fundies, I think a bunch of d/ic/s got redpilled on this when the Proko thing happened.

How do you approach stylization the 'right way'? AFAIK you study the art of good artists, copying a shit ton to get it embedded in your visual library like a Jap, while also applying perspective, anatomy, etc.

>>2807706

you learn the rules to break the rules

>>2808015

> copying a shit to

this, this a lot

>>2808015
Outside of the facial features, anime isn't as much about stylization as it is about simplification though. If you can draw a proper realistic human figure from imagination, all you need to do to make it "anime" is to leave out the detailed muscle definition and use lines very selectively to draw only the most important anatomical landmarks inside the silhouette.

>>2808188

Those drawings aren't just a result of "leaving out lines". The shapes are heavily designed. Shape design is something you can only learn by copying imo.

>>2808269
>Shape design is something you can only learn by copying imo.
Explain

>>2808271

Copying as in studying those artist you look up to. Literally try to copy the exact shapes they are drawing. Tracing really speeds up this process if you are really analytical and not mindless about it. You'll eventually internalize certain shapes and build your visual library.

>sakimichan was pulling 17 hour days at 18 and ended up with a deformed finger
>yfw will never have asian dedication

>>2808280
>implying I won't

>>2807706
Focus on proportion over anatomy.

>>2808280
source?

>>2807706
He actually got worse. God damn. This belongs in the Autistic Improvement thread.

>>2808421
wash your eyes

>>2807706
The "learning rules to break them" meme is true but what people usually forget to tell is that style is just as much of a study subject as anything else.

You study it the same way you study anything. Copy what you find pretty, then apply that knowledge by drawing something on your own. Rinse repeat for years COMBINED with proper anatomy/perspective/value/whatever you need studies.

>>2808432

yeah, to reduce "the manga style" to just regular anatomy with less lines is plain retarded.

>>2807723
no, it's not the total opposite, you dumb idiot.
given your mentality I think the problem is that you are too stupid to make it as an artist. it's not the approach that is bad, it's you.
simple as that.

>>2807706

>>2808278
this is simply not true. you can develop a good style on your own by first building a strong visual library by studying rl photos or doing life study. then by drawing from memory you experiment by making errors. the more appealing errors are what then create a unique style.
yeah, you can go and copy others and be a copy cat. or you can develop your own style.

>>2808475

My comment was directed at OP who wants to draw cute anime girls. Nevertheless, no matter how unique your style is it does not exist in a vacuum. It's still influenced by your visual imput and studying the works of other artists doesn't automatically turn you into a inferior copy of them.

As for your second point, I strongly disagree that your style is the sum of your inaccuracies in drawing. You kinda sound like a post modernist crackpot when you say nonsense like that.

>>2808475
>yeah, you can go and copy others and be a copy cat.
Literally every good artist you know is/was a "copy cat".

Cartoons, comic books, anime manga. No matter who you pick you can always see direct correlation with someone else's works in their earlier drawings. Nobody is telling you to just "copy style" of a single artist and stick with it like some deviantart cuck but the original style itself is always an amalgamation of other styles with your own brain as a catalyst.

And drop the "visual library" bullshit. Looking at things will barely do shit to you as an artist. Actually drawing them is 90% of the progress.

>>2808425
>Left: figures competently drawn in perspective
>Right: flat profile with no sense of depth

Yeah, maybe wash yours you giant fucking weeb.

>>2808504
>Right: flat profile with no sense of depth

The fuck you talking about? Takehito is a character designer; we don't know if those are part of concept pages where ""flat"" profile poses like those are necessary just taken out of context. Please know what you're talking about before posting so I don't waste my precious plasticity.

where you live op? i need go there to give you a headpat because Takehito Harada was my inspiration too, btw a year ago i used to make a conceptual skeleton of his drawings and just some of ended well, but others were very grotesque

i have some pics: this one is how the conceptual skeleton was made

the other two were the result of the redraw of the skeleton and the details but i'm without photoshop here to resize all of them

The best approach is to stop listening to /ic/ on how to get good. You took their advice for a year and made very weak progress. What does that tell you?

Find a better art community and start socially connecting with people who are very good artists and talk to them about getting good. Strike open a conversation with a great artist on facebook or skype or something. . Avoid this place if you care about getting good.

A single conversation with a person who is really good at drawing will help you get better faster than anything you will ever read on this board. I talked to an artist who had a reputation for getting good really fast. I talked about doing Loomis. He said fuck loomis. So there you go. /ic/ doesn't know what the fuck it's talking about.

And it makes sense too. It's just a weak slow art board on 4chan of all places. Finding quality art advice here is like trying to find great life advice on /b/.

>>2808540
Do you know any better art communities?

I'll admit that I originally created this thread to shitpost, but the advice has been really helpful.

Thanks, d/ic/ks.

>>2808547
With actual professionals. just email one and get him to help you, show potential and update daily until he bends over to you and realizes you could be great.

>>2807706
Just look at pictures of them. Anime is really easy

Just look at pictures of them. Anime is really easy

>>2808448
Actually it's not less lines but specific lines.

>>2808432
Actually it's not simplified lines, only specific lines. Instead of having an intellectual conversation go look at pictures.

>>2808540
So... why aren't you sharing what this artist told you? If you have good tips, we would be happy to hear it...

Every time wannabe artists talk about drawing style it's a phat joke. 0/8 not gonna make lik srsly lrn2draw

>>2808718
And you should learn how to write I guess.

>>2808718
>phat

This is like 2002 shitposting levels

Learning simple stylization like anime isn't hard. Learn to draw real figures and it's a lot easier to play around and adapt them to any style you please.

>>2809087

post work

>>2808540

Folks recommend Loomis because he aggregates all useful techniques and tips for each fundamental in his book. I didn't get it at all as a beginner though because he covered it so briefly in comparison to other books.

It's something more aimed at intermediate artists.

>>2808540
Sometimes I wish I never even came here. I feel like I'm spending more time being confused than I am even just drawing. I don't want to study all this bullshit for hours. I know people who never studied Loomis or any of this shit and are great artists

This stuff just kills my motivation

>>2809312
Loomis is just an easy way of saying lrn2fundamentals. You don't even need to use Loomis for that.

Just do some studies here and there and apply the fundamentals (construction, perspective, etc) in the shit you wanna draw and you'll improve that way. It's mainly practice in the end.

Emphasis on the "mainly" part, because you don't wanna be one of those animu shitters who draw for several years and barely improve because they kept with their bad habits. But you also don't want to be a Proko who can't into imaginative drawing at all because they've done nothing but studies.

>>2809312
Personally the only thing I needed Loomis' help with was head construction.

>>2808405
my.ass

>>2809312
>I know people who never studied Loomis or any of this shit and are great artists

What a stupid thing to say. If they understand the fundamentals, then they have studied the fundamentals. No one is fucking born understanding perspective, proportions, color, anatomy, gesture etc. and if they don't understand the fundamentals, they aren't great artists.

>It's another episode of not gonna make it

Do people actually take shit on /here/ as serious advice?

>>2809906
The advice given here is common fucking knowledge and not unique to this place, you contrarian moron. "Study the fundamentals, draw from life, apply what you learn, here is a list of established reading material you might want to check out".

How the fuck is that advice any less credible coming from /ic/ than it is coming from any other place?

>>2808491
>As for your second point, I strongly disagree
Let's agree to disagree then.

>>2808491
>what is a visual library
oh wow

>>2810587
>Let's agree to disagree then :-D

Leave that tumblr shit at the door, there's no subjectivism here

>>2809312
>I don't want to study all this bullshit for hours
never gonna make it
>I know people who never studied Loomis or any of this shit and are great artists
no you don't and if you do, no they aren't

>>2811320
>Van Gogh wasn't a great artist

The thing about anatomy is that if you get into it too early, it's an absolute waste of time.
Anime artists who take it seriously will get rid of symbol drawing and learn how to draw form and shape design.
Form and shape design can substitute for the lack of anatomy knowledge to some extent.
The best way, obviously, is to learn form and volume and then anatomy as well.

>>2811320

>>2807723
>Human anatomy and anime anatomy are totally different

I've seen enough porn of both to know that you're fucking wrong.

>>2808405
interview on deviantart. google "ask the artist sakimichan deviantart" or some shit

>>2809312
heh. it's funny, found out today arne from android arts never did a study until like 2003. like, just fucking drew shit and got gud. No studies lmao. blew my mind

>>2811413
>Van Gogh
>a good artist

He objectively wasn't good, but some of his paintings look cool. However his drawing is still shit.

>>2811413
van gogh only painted this to appeal to normies. "gunna crank this pleb shit out for them to jam in their dining room".

>>2808504
Don't be a fucking idiot. Just because he didn't draw it with perspective doesn't mean he got worse.

>>2807706
The only thing you can do is
Practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice

And eventually you'll git gud

"We all have 10,000 bad drawings in us. The sooner we get them out, the better."