/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>2566461
I believe it. But then you'd have to account for lecture time less how else are they going to improve. So I'm going to say 10 hours a day.

>>2566461
I was talking to a guy in a hangout once who said he was an fzd alumn and told me that after he left he had a heart attack from working too hard. He was crazy young for that too.

The thing that baffles me about fzd is that all alumns i've seen end up doing generic photobashed stuff. Can't wrap my head around that one...

>>2566475
He had a heart attack after leaving? Was he still putting in 16hrs a day after graduation?

The fuck?

>>2566475
>The thing that baffles me about fzd is that all alumns i've seen end up doing generic photobashed stuff. Can't wrap my head around that one...
I mean, isn't it just a one year program? And it's focused very much on pumping out stuff as part of a production. It's really not a surprise that they turn to using photos to speed up their process, especially if their painting skills are lacking since they only had time to learn a bit of basic drawing and different photoshop processes. The fact that everything is generic is because they all learn from identical material and are pushed in a specific direction rather than given time and encouragement to develop their own styles and interests.

>>2566478
Tbh I'm not sure as this was a long time ago but i think it was just the stress of the past year catching up with him. You know like how you get sick when you get a week off from college. Just a more extreme version of that.

>>2566491
That actually makes a lot of sense anon. I've asked this question out loud a few times a this is the first time I got a sensible answer, have a cookie.

>>2566475
people who literally stay up all day under a strict one-size-fits-all regime will be far less productive than those who focus on their flaws with proper break time inbetween

this is the greatest failing of modern education

>>2566461
>30mins of sleep a night.

God, I remember Uni and being so tired after a night spent studying that I would see white "ghosts" flying past my peripheral vision at dawn. I would sleep on a table for an hour and a half then go to the next class.

Not only do recent studies confirm that your understanding and retention are poorer if you're exhausted, sleeping well is surprisingly the most important factor in students' success.

>>2566532
Oh god you mean those specks of light that seem to whiz past your head? Yeah i had those, induced them all by myself because i had to "get pro by the end of the year!!"

Good times...

>>2566461
That's the point of the program. Work hard, get good, get a job.

It's pretty real. In normal artschool all people who wanna git gut stay after classes for another 6+ hours in workshop.

>>2566555
dubtrips confirms.

But seriously is that healthy? Can a human body sustain on 4hrs of sleep a night for months on end?

>>2566559
Try it and tell us how it went anon

>>2566559
When I was not NEET I worked for 12h+ shitjob without weekends. So yeah, you can. 6h is enough for sleep.

>>2566559
The body is surprisingly resilient but it does eventually burn out. Plenty of people have gone on little amounts of sleep for extended periods of time, usually once it is over though it will take months to fully recover since you build up what is called a "sleep debt". I don't think it has any long term effects on your health unless it was especially crazy in length or severity. I also don't think it has much research done in it though, so do it at your own risk. Short term effects of it can be somewhat hard on your body but probably won't kill you.

>>2566570
Age is a big factor too, in my teens i could go several days without sleep and besides becoming fairly incoherent i was fine. Now if i get less than 6 hours I'm a wreck.

>>2566559

You'd probably remain functional but not efficient. Honestly if you'd done a decent day's worth of drawing, getting a good 8 hours (6 at minimum) is probably better for your art than if you'd spent those 2 to 4 hours drawing instead of sleeping. Sleep is huge for memory retention, and being well rested is vital for maintaining attention, focus and willpower while you actually do art. All that skipping sleep and drawing instead does is seriously kneecap how effective the learning experience of the drawing actually is.

>>2566570

My own experience of overworking myself is that I can work at 100% for 2 weeks (100% as in, 12 to 22 hours per day), after that I'm less efficient. I begin to forget things and my ability to take the best decision goes to the trash. Yet I can still go on and on.

After doing it for months I had lost 30 pounds, had shaking hands, insomnia and other minor health issues for a year afterward.

Wouldn't recommend.

>>2566589
Crazy stuff. Good to hear from others who have tried.

So it'd be best to stick with 6hrs minimum, preferably 8? I'd like to try 5hrs with a 30min nap doing biphasic sleep but I just haven't been able to make that schedule stick

>>2566590
You mean this?>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep

It's works, but it not so easy at begining stage because you can screw up "just a little 10min more"

>>2566559
>4hrs of sleep a night
Does this include napping during the day? I sleep in chunks of 4hrs or less: Two 1.5-2 hr naps + 3-4hrs of sleep in bed.

I have done this for 6 years everyday during the week. I just took a sleep test last night too. I am not sure if they were able to collect enough data...

>>2566604
This sounds like an ideal way to do it for sure. Does your lifestyle work for this? I'm curious to understand more because it sounds perfect.

Be sure to share sleep test results if you get anything

>>2566594
Uberman is the polyphasic that you're referencing. If you miss the nap times you're fucked.

Biphasic is sleeping once at night, then once again at some other point during the day. Two sleep sessions in a 24hr period. If you do 3+ sleep sessions in 24hrs that's polyphasic

>>2566594
When I miss a chunk of sleep (because I have to do something with people), it feels like I just pulled an all nighter.

You need structured commitments to frame your sleep. Otherwise, it becomes socially invasive to need to sleep while people want you to do XYZ

>>2566607
It sounds better than it is. People will call you when you sleep, world is monophasic so absolutely nothing is going on at night, everything's closed.

>>2566675
i have a non 24 hour sleep cycle and i know that feel. when i was at university there was a vending machine that i'd use the shit out of at night, and 24 hr pizza places were the best

>>2566607
>lifestyle
I have a super commute. It is 2-3 hrs each way from work. I spend 5-6 hrs on the bus each day. Instead of working on the bus, I sleep. Then I can reclaim 4-5 hours at home doing whatever I want' drawing, movies, whatever.

It is hard to imagine another circumstance that would allow this to work. The technician at the sleep center had biphasic sleep since he had to stay up all night watching the patients, but he only worked 3 days a week.

Personally, I really like it. Geographic separation from work means that I can't stay late or have to work weekends. Also, the commute is long enough for me to hit REM sleep on the bus. I am performing 2 activities in parallel. Lots of people think I'm an idiot for living so far away, but it makes for better conversation than work, sports, or wine...

Well shit if anyone here has done 16hr workdays please share cause idk how tf you could do that and survive

>>2566675
If you're gonna git gud sometimes you gotta put social outings on the backburner

Or so I've heard....

>>2566691
Skip social stuff? Sure whatever. But don't skip sleep. Trust me, I fucked up my sleep schedule and I still can't sleep normally. It's 2AM and it'll be at least another 4 hours before I even get tired.

>>2566704
just set your alarm a half hour before the time you usually wake up then cut another half hour once a week. It takes forever but you can alter your sleep schedule pretty solidly this way.

Not FZD, but studying animation at college. When I'm not in a slump usually working 16+ hours a day on average, tend not to sleep much at all on weekdays

Was extremely burnt out and failed my last semester because I wasn't getting things done, mental health was/is shit too. That's why I'm taking an extra module to make up for it

I think it's bullshit. It's like going to the gym. Your muscles doesn't grow when you lift the weights, your muscles grow afterwards when you rest. If you don't sleep well when lifting weights you won't make as many gains as if you sleep properly.

>>2566683
>better conversation than wine
you wish son

>>2566832
>I think it's bullshit
>follows with completely baseless claim

>>2566711

2bh if you're serious about it you can go backwards almost an hour a day without too much harm

set it backwards 30 minutes a night and if that doesn't work then 15. Buy some 1mg (NOT those overdose 5mg ones -- they'll make you sleep 12 hours) Melatonin pills and take em 2 to 3 hours before when you wanna sleep and you'll be super tired by your bedtime. Once you have a schedule then cut down to 0.5 mg a night and then get off them entirely. More than 1mg a night is super bad and even 1mg a night over a long period of time is bad stuff but short term it's super helpful

>>2566838

Care to elaborate? What I stated about weight lifting and rest is fact and not up for debate.

>>2566855
I wasn't questioning what you were saying about weightlifting obviously. It was your assertion that drawing and weightlifting were the same, which is a completely baseless claim that assumes that the brain functions in the same manner that your biceps, triceps or quadriceps do.

>>2566475
>The thing that baffles me about fzd is that all alumns i've seen end up doing generic photobashed stuff. Can't wrap my head around that one...
Even though I hate the concept art look, gotta admit they do have a whole fuckton more skill than most of /ic because of discipline. I feel like they can make much better stuff but video game industry usually just asks for generic shit

>>2566475
>had a heart attack from working too hard.


That's believable I can't imagine 16 hrs a day without serious health problems.I only do 6-8 a day and my wrist and back still get sore.


>>2566570
>I don't think it has any long term effects on your health unless it was especially crazy in length or severity

Chronic sleep deprivation is linked with alzheimer's and chronic health problems. If you want to be healthy then even skipping a little sleep will cause problems.

>>2566860

It's a analogy dummy

>>2566797

Tried to do 5 classes one quarter while studying animation. I was completely sleep deprived by the end. It was either hand in crap work or never sleep. I wasn't willing to lower my standards, so I was a zombie by the last week. Never did that again.

>>2566891
an*

man you're a ripe cunt aren't ya?

>>2566797
So you're saying you do 16hrs a day and it's the only way to git gud?

>>2567110
It's the only way to git gud faster than 15 hours a day

I'm studying game art right now and I do this too at a smaller scale.
Although my school is definitly not near FZD level ofcourse.
I'm working on my fundies right when I wake up before school and at night I draw till I can't stay awake anymore. When I try to get some more sleep I usually stay awake because I get stressed from being unproductive.
I also gave up on social life.
Most people in my class spend all their time gaming outside of classes tho.
Then they come whining to me about how they don't improve as fast as I do.

>inb4 never gonna make it

>>2567135
I doubt that. Someone with 6-8 hours a day of focused studying and a fresh mind due to a good sleep schedule will wipe the floor with some dead tired guy who mindlessly grinds for 16 hours a day. Not to mention they also will have a huge advantage in terms of creativity if they have time to actually go outside, see and observe stuff, get inspired by other art etc.

>>2567110

I wouldn't say it's the only way at all, but my mentality and approach to work is pretty much all or nothing. It's doesn't mean all 16 of those hours are particularly productive or as efficient as they could be.

In the process of getting good. Social life is non existent , but it always was. I have one friend from class. When I'm not a complete failure I was consistently top of my class, but there are folks I work with who get enough sleep, exercise, maybe work 7-8 hours a day and do pretty much just as well. It works for them.

I have a pretty good working relationship with my professor, he's always telling me that efficiency with your time and coming in well rested is much more important than slogging away for 16 hours.

16 a day? Fucking impossible.

8 hours a day is a lot already, I usually do like 6-7, and I get super tired sometimes. How do these people study so much every day without hanging out with friends, drinking beer, smoking weed?

I don't have a gf or anything so slight use of drugs is what keeps me sane.

>>2567266
>hanging out with friends
Never gonna make it

>>2567270

I'd rather not make it then, but I'm 100 times better than you tho

>>2567274
>i'm 100 times better than you
>but i'm not going to post my art

>>2567276

Of course I'm not going to post it lol, but if you ever post in the draw thread and you're not catbib I fucking obliterate you

>>2567279
So, you're still an amateur then? 100 times better than me was it? hahaha

>>2567266
if you're neet 8 hours a day is not hard at all

>>2566475
>alumn
>alumns
Are you doing that on purpose?

FZD graduate here.

>>2566469
People draw or sleep during lectures.

>>2566604
People don't count the days when their body crashes and sleep 10+ hours, which happens every now and then.

>>2566461
Yes, they do. Not every single person though. People have gone to medical emergencies or quit school due to medical, but that's rare. Think heart attacks, losing complete wrist function, organ failure, ...
Everyone works 7/7.

Three types of students:

Usually people crash and do badly for two days, then go back to all-nighters and 14-18 hour workdays.

Other students teach themselves hardcore time management so they can sleep 6 hours.

Yet other students can't handle it and never finish assignments and throw their money away, despite trying.

Generally, if you browse the internet, you have time to spare.
>Like me now, I'm procrastinating on freelance.

>>2567276
flash me

>>2567301

Why work that much? It takes the fun out of learning.

Just learn more slowly and relaxed

>>2567301
>FZD graduate here.
post your work
is it true that 80 % finish with a job?

>>2567301

>>2567301
did you sleep with some chinks? what do they taste like?

>>2567301
>>2567320

Yeah, while I'm not a big fan of the 'post your work' meme, I am actually very curious what someone who puts in 16+ hours a day can accomplish. Please post your work?

>>2567340
Then go to their website.

>>2567340
>>2567314
>>2567320
Sorry, I'd like to stay anonymous and have a recognisable way of drawing/painting.
My work (and my classmates') is on here though: http://fzdschool.com/entertainment

About the job, the school tracks statistics, I'm not sure. Not at the time of graduating, though.

>>2567322
Tinder works everywhere. No comments on taste.

Unfortunately it's pretty common even in other schools. The one I go it it's pretty average for people to get at at the most 3 hours of sleep during crunch time, with the rest of those hours consisting of nothing but constant work.

How do you draw for 16 hours everyday without losing concentration?

>>2567355
go full robot

>>2567345

> it is necessary to work 16+ a day to even be competitive in the market
> currently about one half-step above a beginner
> i'm starting work soon and will probably be only able to muster 6 hours max a day after work, and 18 each on sat/sun ignoring the occasional overtime obligations and all social interaction/recreation

well ok i guess it's time to quit what's the fucking point

>>2567366
Quantity of time doesn't make up for quality of time.
If you spend four hours detailing a piece you started yesterday, you could have spent those hours making four rougher paintings and learnt a lot more.

Cut it to two three hours a day and you're well on your way to git gud and have time over to waste your life.

>>2566461
Total BS thread. More of the 2005 "I work 24 hours a day 7 days a week" Conceptart.org meme

Artists work long hours, sure, 10 hour days, sure. But I've listened to plenty of working guys and gals talk about their schedules and while they admit to being workaholics they don't work 16 hours a day forsaking all else in the name of art. Good luck being creative when you're tired all the time, good luck getting jobs with uninteresting generic work.

>>2567345
>I'm totally a FZD alumni guys...like totally believe me even though I can't prove it. Totally listen to this life altering career advise from me....
Yeah sure.

>>2567366
And that's what trolls like >>2567345 and Feng want you to think so you don't even bother to try and in turn become competition for jobs.

>>2567355
You spend your alert hours in the morning to make roughs, then you just detail and render the rest of the time.

>>2567301
Anything you can share about your experience? How often did you work each day? What was your skill level when entering the school?

And ultimately would you recommend it to someone who's willing to put in the work for a full year?

I agree with other posters that say FZD stuff looks homogeneous, but you say that you developed your own style after graduating. Did FZD help you find your own style?

I was working at the hotel as a waiter/ barista/ bartender/ porter etc, basically whatever was needed. my average shift was starting at 7 am ending at 11pm during the week, and about 1- 2 am during weekends. i had a brake between i believe 2 pm till 4 pm, but 3pm was staff dinner time, so i didn't get any sleep during that time. i was not getting any day off, because i wanted to get as much money as i could in 12 months out of that job. first 3 months were hell, but after 6 months i got really used to sleep 4-5 hours, you learn to fall asleep in couple minutes, and wake up last minute to get ready for a shift. i know people are waking up earlier to have a breakfast and what not- i still never have a breakfast/ newspaper/ tv in the morning, i wake up just on time to wash myself, dress up and get out. nowdays i sleep at least 6 hours, 8 hours are rare and i just feel rested after 6 easily, however for example last month i had 3 week 3-4 hours sleep cycle due to various work related tasks needed to be completed. it just takes me one 12h bed session and one day of just chilling out to get recharged and start over the next day.

I think 13hrs is the most you could squeeze and still live kinda healthy.

Sleep 12AM-6AM
Morning route 6AM-8AM
Draw 8AM-Noon(4hrs)
Lunch 12PM-1:30PM
Draw 1:30-5:30PM (4hrs)
Dinner 5:30pm-7PM
Draw 7PM-12AM(5hrs)

Also pic related, it's FZD progress before & after

>>2567301
Also one more question, how much did you spend per month while living in Singapore? A general estimate would be great(rent, food, transport & other expenses)

>>2567395
Last comment.
My skill level was $15 commissions that took me 2-3 days.

FZD doesn't help you develop style at all - it happens on accident because you're influenced by your past or by your inspirations, or you can consciously develop it after school.

I absolutely recommend the school, provided you are 100% dedicated before even entering. I would have never made it without school - not because of the hours of work (don't worry, >>2567366), but because I had no idea how to study.

The biggest thing I learned is the importance of time management. Scheduling. Planning ahead, knowing priorities, developing a work flow. Sleep is necessary. Aim for routine and consistent output.

>>2567400
S$2200 a month, eating out every meal. Rent is around S$1000.

How do you work so long? I can cut out distractions and at most get 2.5 hours of work done in a session of concentration. Afterwards, I just need to get up and walk around. This was even the same for playing videogames. Only in games I could at most go 4 hours before needing a break to walk around.

The mental exhaustion I get in my work as well? I get stuck in areas, perhaps this is from my poor work ethic and not posting for crituqes. A drawing I seem to be failing on I get stuck, don't know how to fix it, and I bail. I find myself even looking at art of people who are less skilled then me, trying to capture what makes them finish their art. People who make DA/tumblr tier furry/anime art, poorly drawn comics. What makes them finish? I at least want to make a nice sketch even if it isn't painted. I'm the guy that draws the head but not the body. If I draw a body it's a stuff pose. But then I can gesture draw fluently, but the degree of finish is there.

Either way I don't finish what I've started. I'd delve into it further but there were 3 things I've finished in my life and it was from art school. I spoke with a girl who drew well, but scoffed that I went to school she said "you shouldn't need school to force you to make art." Ever since I went down a path of self-teaching, and it's been a rocky one.

Blah blah blah, so what can I do? Sorry if I'm not more specific. I'm truly alone. got no art friends, have trouble with commitment, I flake a lot. I don't want to quit.

>People think you need to suck chinese dick and work like a fucking slave to get good
>Mfw thanks to meditation and just being smart about my studies I work half the hours a day that they do and judging by the webpage illustrations I'm basically on their level after only 3 years of study

>>2567416
dunning kruger

>>2567416
>I'm basically on their level after only 3 years of study
>only 3 years of study

>>2567404
How much is this in real money?

>>2567429

are you so fucking lazy that you can't even google a simple currency exchange

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+much+is+1000+signapor+doolies+in+us+dollores

>>2567429
>dunning kruger
2200SGD is ~1600USD

>>2567411
Suck it up and draw? Being able to analyze your work and fix your own mistakes is a fundamental part of being an artist.

>>2567431
yep

>>2567386

>>2567386
>And that's what trolls like >>2567345 and Feng want you to think so you don't even bother to try and in turn become competition for jobs.

Biggest load I've ever heard. On their website:
>"Do I even need school? Short Answer, No.
>With all the information available on the internet and through books, you can find everything and essentially learn on your own.

Feng also posts free tutorials (100+ 10 min videos) on his website. Seems like he's really trying to get loose some competition.

>>2567399
how do you take an hour and a half to consume food?

>>2567458
fucking casuals.

>>2566559
Absolutely not. You shouldn't even try to sacrifice sleep for one day. Sleep is important for the learning process. You must maximize your sleep to be as healthy and restful as possible to maximize your learning speed.

>>2567458
I'm including extra time to stretch, take breaks while drawing, and generally lose time for other things like errands.

>>2567435
So "suck it up" is the best response I'm gonna get.

>>2567458
>dyel manlet beta

> What if I can’t draw at all?
> Having a strong drawing background definitely helps, but it is not an entrance requirement at our school. We’ve had students who didn’t draw much at all before enrolling at FZD, but graduated with high-quality portfolios.

> What should I include in the entrance portfolio?
> The goal of the entrance portfolio is to show your interest in design. This can be in the form of sketches, drawings, written ideas, notes, etc. Quality is not the key focus at this point. FZD School of Design admissions department is looking for your problem solving abilities. It helps to have some drawing capabilities, but that is not a guarantee for success in the design industry.

wait wait wait back the fuck up
what how the fuck do they evaluate your portfolio if not by skill
how do they take shit-tier-needs-loomis scrubs and make art gods out of them in one damn year?

>>2567582
They learn the fundamentals.

>>2567582
Design means someone who's actively trying to come up with stuff, like mechas, vehicles, environments, outfits, creatures etc. instead of fanart tits and meme portraits.

>>2566559
At the shitty job I was at I was only getting 3-4hrs of sleep a night and it was hell. There's a lot of physical and mental problems that develop when the body is sleep deprived for so long.

So, if you demonstrate interest, it doesn't matter what your initial skill level is.

However, if you don't have the discipline to work endlessly without sleep to acquire the skills necessary, you're not going to succeed in the school and probably going to not succeed in the industry. The people who succeed in the school are the ones who have demonstrated relentless determination in their prior endeavors.

Even if it means working until you get a fucking heart attack. I've attempted to stay up before but anything less than 6 hours causes me to dry heave uncontrollably.

I don't know. This is the first I'm hearing of this place and this could either be a good jumpstart or a demonstration of how weak-willed and undisciplined I actually am and maybe I shouldn't pursue art in the first place.

>>2567611
Concept art is more competitive because there's fewer jobs available. There's plenty of other art jobs.

>>2567619

Well my skill level is about 2 on a scale from 1 to 100 and my interest is web comics and 2d animation.

I could hit it big with mediocre art if people latch onto my shit like Homestuck or strike Patreon pay dirt like Questionable Content.

The animation industry is even more competitive though, so that's just fucked anyway.

FZD seems like a good way to hone your fundamentals to a fine point and advance into other desired territory, but purportedly the same can be accomplished through independent study and I'm not really sure how to put myself on an effective "curriculum".

>>2566582
Agreed
>>2566589
I experience the same. It's just like going overnight. We jusg can't handle months straight

>>2567386

Here's why you're wrong. It's not about putting in all of the hours you can in a day, it's about working on multiple projects at once while staying consistent with the hours you put in and the quality of work. You could argue that 16 hrs makes someone unproductive but there will always be someone who is accustom to working that time limit and is fine with doing industry-quality work. That person will be hired over someone who quits after 10 hours into it. No one cares that you are tired, unproductive, or can't think of anything new, that isn't why you are hired as an artist. It's your job to do whatever task you're assigned without being a toxic, annoying little brat when "muh hands hert!", so either suck it up or fuck right off. You sound like you have no experience working in art and are trying to deter people from pursing an education that would be beneficial in the long run. But hey, this is /ic/, no one here is going to make it.

>>2567624
>I'm not really sure how to put myself on an effective "curriculum".
The most important thing is regular exercise\practice. When you go to art school, like the good ones, their schedule isn't anything hard to understand. They wake up at 930. They paint figures for 2-3 hours. They eat. They paint some still life for another 2-3 hours. Eat. They paint something else for 2-3 hours. Feng said the weakness all his students have is that they don't practice enough. They don't put in the hours. Can watch this video if you want to learn what the fundamentals are. sycra is pretty dumb but it's a good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piKV5nXL-C4

>>2567661

> the weakness all his students have is that they don't practice enough

According to student testimony and their website, the average is 18 FUCKING HOURS A DAY
How is that not enough practice?

>>2567666
Before school, man. Before school.

>>2567668
i think he meant before enrolling into the school

Sleeping as little as possible and trying to draw as much as possible is stupid and not at all badass.

Sleeping helps you internalize what you learned during the day and gives you the health and energy you need to work effectively
Judging yourself by how many hours you draw and forcing yourself to draw as much as possible is a surefire way to burn out.

You should aim to maximize the amount of time you can draw and study at the highest possible efficiency. This means getting proper sleep, eating properly, exercising, all things that boost your mental ability.

Sure, FZD pumps out a lot of successful people, but what about the amount of people that drop out. The people that are capable of drawing the amount they do are a minority few and even then, they would probably have been even more successful had they done things in a more productive way.

>>2567105
>can't handle the bantz
>has to resort to namecalling

>>2567416

The longest you spend at FZD is 2 years, the basic program is 1 year IIRC.

Average it to 1.5 years and they spent half the time to be as good as you which works out exactly how you'd think it would.Given you work half there hours.

>>2567619
>Concept art is more competitive because there's fewer jobs available. There's plenty of other art jobs.

Every art job is competitive,


>>2567611
>maybe I shouldn't pursue art in the first place.

Keep in mind these are the hours people work to get into the industry in 1-2 years. If you go for 3-4 years you can cut the hours in half.

>>2567861
You don't get it LMFAO
4 hours a day or even less is plenty for getting really good ridiculously fast. And you would improve just as fast if not faster on 4 hours than you would on 15.

The 15 hour a day training idea is not superior or better. It is just straight up dumb. Don't do it.

>>2567922
> 4 hours a day
> maybe even less
> getting really good ridiculously fast

If 4hrs gets you gud "ridiculously fast" then what's 8 hrs a day? Super-duper-ultra fast?

What's 10hrs a day? Speed-of-light fast?

4hrs will get you good but not ridiculously fast. You're either spouting opinions or just basically making shit up.

Either way 15hrs a day is absurd but 4hrs is not enough to git gud "ridiculously fast"

>>2568329

Not him, but I think 8-10 hours is reasonable for extremely fast progress. 15 hours is just fine if you're doing nothing but art on the day and all your friends are fucking around somewhere else.

I think FZD's average of 18+ hours is, while surprising and genuinely impressive, is ultimately detrimental because sleep actually is really important for mental acuity and knowledge retention.

>>2568547
Yes I agree 8-10 hr range is the most reasonable for someone who can put in the time and make learning art become their fulltime job

>>2568547
>ultimately detrimental because sleep actually is really important for mental acuity and knowledge retention.


I fully agree, I don't even think the 15 hrs is healthy but I won't deny you will get better faster doing it.

>>2567922

Is the epitome of the IC idea that you can get just as good doing 4 hours work as 15, never mind many have done the 12-15 hrs a day and gotten super good in a short time. I've never heard anyone do that on 4.

>>2568560

> I don't even think the 15 hrs is healthy

Well, it should be fine if you feel motivated to do something like that.

You'll need about 7 hours of sleep. That allocates 1 hour total for the two meals during the day, and 1 hour of home exercise.

>>2566461
human brain is capable of 6 hours of productive work a day unless you train to push it

why would you instead of focusing on improving is beyond me

>>2568571
>human brain is capable of 6 hours of productive work a day
>no proof whatsoever

>>2568567
>Well, it should be fine if you feel motivated to do something like that

I disagree you would have no time for leisure , socializing or just having fun.Which is super important for mental and therefore physical health.

Humans are not ment to work 100hrs/week, I have trouble seeing how you could be in a mentally healthy state doing that unless you are just some freak of nature.

>>2568575
>not drawing for leisure and fun
>not socializing with your artist friends by drawing
NOT GONNA MAKE IT

>>2566689
ex 16 hour worker here. Typically those sorts of jobs aren't 16 guaranteed. it's usually more like a 12 hour job daily with frequent days that require more time. You learn to sleep at the drop of a hat after the first week. I could be asleep in the rig heading back in less than 5 minutes (as a passenger). Typically you're on duty for two weeks then either a weekend or a week off. i've worked two jobs that have that kind of schedule and both were all about overtime. The best was when you got just under 100 hours for the week, cuz after that you'd fall into the next tax bracket for what they pull from you. There's also opportunities a couple times a day for a brief 10-15 minute nap usually. those times are gold.

>>2568575

Isn't it possible to, I dunno, draw things and enjoy it?

I'm not saying it has to be daily, but 15 hours shouldn't be a problem on weekends when your friends have other obligations and you don't feel like socializing.

thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhsTmiK7Q2M

>>2566860
it's a correct analogy though. if you don't sleep enough your retention rate goes down i.e. your memory won't be as good and you generally won't function as well.

>>2568575
>having fun is important for mental health
>therefore vital for physical health
>having fun keeps you physically healthy

Then why am I so frail and unhealthy browsing 4chan all the time?

Also you present no sources that fun and socializing is required to stay healthy. But yes drawing is fun

>>2566461
I only draw 16 min/day

>>2568583
>Isn't it possible to, I dunno, draw things and enjoy it?

It is but from my experience doing anything 15 hrs a day will make it less enjoyable for me. Maybe others are different however?

>I'm not saying it has to be daily, but 15 hours shouldn't be a problem on weekends when your friends have other obligations and you don't feel like socializing.

I'm not saying you do it one day and you'll instantly have a heart attack, but doing it consistently for a year will certainly impact your mental health.


>>2568605
>Also you present no sources that fun and socializing is required to stay healthy. But yes drawing is fun

Humans are a social species , if you want to believe that not socializing has no effect on you be my guest.

>>2568674

> I'm not saying you do it one day and you'll instantly have a heart attack, but doing it consistently for a year will certainly impact your mental health.

Fair enough. I don't know about the dangers to mental health, but I do agree that it's not good to draw that much everyday and do nothing else. Allocating time to socialize/gain new experiences, absorb other visual source material and examining the world for yourself is also an important part of growing as an artist.

>>2568674
>I'm not saying you do it one day and you'll instantly have a heart attack,
Are you vegan or something?

I work full time and I used to do 10 hours a day, now I can only manage 3 hours a day.

Help /ic/, it seems all my discipline has gone.

>>2566589
>>2566590
>>2567643

Can confirm similar. I worked hard in the last 2 years of my degree 10-12 hours a day, then towards the last 6 month stretch I was doing 16+ hours a day without a break and I crashed fucking hard.

That was almost exactly a year ago and I'm still recovering. Developed insomnia, severe weight loss and IBS. Now I've spent a whole year barely being able to get out of bed and shitting myself constantly.

Trust me. It's not worth it. Afterwards no matter how much you accomplished your self-esteem will plummet and you'll serious health problems that you might never recover from or will undo most of the good stuff you did. I got a good number of job offers after graduating that I wasn't able to accept or fucked up because I was such a wreck.

Take it slow d/ic/ks. Don't be lazy. But take it slow.

>>2568700
I still think 12hrs is reasonable. How can you say that's too much?

Let's say sleep from 12-7, work 4hrs till lunch, then work another 4hrs till dinner. If you're done eating dinner by 8 you can squeeze another 2-4 hrs before bedtime... you're still getting 7hrs every night, eating 3 meals, and drawing all the rest of the time.

>>2568700

> Afterwards no matter how much you accomplished your self-esteem will plummet

How so? I feel like any person emerging from that school alive would be proud as hell that they survived it. You've worked harder than most artists ever do.

>>2568760
I don't think that >>2568700 graduated from FZD because it's only a 1yr diploma. That person said they worked hard the last 2yrs and couldn't keep up.

I'm having a hard time believing all their issues are solely from lack of sleep. Possible sure. But how many people went to FZD and are alive to talk about it

>>2568797

I just don't comprehend how people can endure a full year without consistent sleep.
Sure, I had absolutely no problem aside from the obvious decrease in energy and falling asleep in classes through high school, but I'm 24 and going just one night with 3 hours of sleep causes me to feel crippling nausea and on rare occasions, vomiting.

>>2568799

Check this post >>2567301, not everyone can...

>>2568758

After drawing for 7-8 hours in a day I don't feel like drawing for the rest of the day, I also like to play vidya or watch series.

>>2566461
>16+ hours every day drawing

What does he mean by that?

Meme aside, does he give an example of schedule, certainly they can't be spending 16 hours on a single drawing and enjoy getting their back and wrist fucked up.

Fuck if one can get that good in just 1 year, does that mean I can do the same in 5 years by working "only" 3 hours a day? I've a regular job that I don't want to quit so I can only work at night.

>>2568799
There's a big difference between 3hrs of sleep and 6hrs of sleep.

Getting 6hrs a night is consistent and still leaves you 10+ hrs a day to draw(assuming you do very little beyond eat/shower/stretch)

Nobody claims that 18hrs a day is healthy. But 10hrs consistently is possible and still leaves you 6-7hrs of sleep every night.

>>2568825

I think the idea of that autistic chinese school is to make you git gud in like 2 years, normal humans take longer because they don't draw boring shit for 16 hours a day, you'll be fine

>>2568864
Technically it's a singaporean school, but yeah it's one of those moon rune countries

>>2568865

I thought the primary language of Singapore was British English?

Also there has to be some kind of diminishing return for working 16h a day. The first 8 Hours have to be worth a lot more than the last 8

>>2568869

I usually peak at hour 5-6 after that I can still draw but just mindless fun not focused studies, fuck drawing more than 8 hours a day tho.

>>2566461
fzd grad here. yes, everybody works at least 12 hours a day, up to 14 or 16. and i would argue that no, it isn't worth it.

the problem with fzd is that he teaches you a very narrow skillset: perspective fundamentals and a smattering of industrial design. additionally, since homework is so heavy and time is so tight, you are severely limited in how much experimentation you can afford to do. this is the root of the famous "feng clone" problem the school has - everybody only draws in the specific way feng demonstrates in his lecture, but worse.

as a result if you go onto the fzd website, you'll find a shitload of work that has good perspective and nothing else. shit rendering, shit design, nothing that has anything closely resembling a soul.

a better way to learn would be to draw for something like 8-10 hours a day, first mastering your fundamentals and then experimenting with various techniques or rulebreaking. after a certain amount of time the work will begin to take on its own soul that you can pursue. for the rest of the day, when you're not drawing, keep art on the back of your mind and let life inform and inspire your work.

tldr; 16 hours a day with no direction makes for some shitty artwork, which is what feng's school churns out by the truckload.

>>2568889
yo, are you willing to share some art? The other one was a pussy.

>>2568889

Well, I mean, it does make sense in the context of what your goal is.

I feel like game and movie companies are more interested in your consistency in execution rather than your unique stylistic input, as they want you to fit in a specific step in their design process. And if you want to jump right into the industry, FZD seems like an ok choice.

>>2568892
Flash me

>>2568905
my body is ready marco

>>2568892
i threw most of it away and rebuilt my portfolio after school. here's something i did in an early term that i liked tho

>>2568889
So do you regret going? Or do you wish you had the ability to study that stuff on your own without going to Singapore for a year?

I think most people on this board would agree that 16hrs a day is too much.

But I think many can also agree it's tough when you're self-teaching to know which direction to go. It's an interesting tradeoff.

Always glad to see these FZD alums are hanging around /ic/

>>2568939
People usually complain those are boring, but I love that fundamentals line works. Good job!

>>2568939

I like it!! Any tips for drawing architecture or at least making it less boring? I struggle with it

>>2568939
noice, thanks

>>2568941
it was a nice experience. the other students were genuinely great people to chill with. singapore's a beautiful country and living through typhoon season was fun (i'm from cali so i'd never seen anything like it).

that said, i sure wish i had an extra 40k in my bank.

to answer what you're really asking though, i think if you buckle down this is stuff you can teach yourself, or even cheat by getting fast at a 3d package.

>>2568952
mostly just study more architecture. historical architecture has great detail and proportion work, and a lot of modern or concept architecture features cool forms, material changes, and philosophies. study all of that and you'll avoid the mistake that i made on the piece i posted, which was just a stack of cubes.

>>2568868
Sort of. Officially they have 4 different languages, so.

>>2568955
I do think it's possible to teach yourself. But there's always a huge benefit of having the teachers there to critique your work and tell you what to fix. Online classes are similar but not exactly the same.

Do you have any recommended learning materials beyond the sticky? I've done Proko lessons and they're great.

Drawing from life seems to be the most important. But Feng actually said in a video that FZDSchool doesn't teach life drawing, which I found very strange. That's when I really started doubting the value of studying at that school because it's all digital and so generic. It's good, but I do think it's possible to give yourself a better education IF you can make yourself a solid study routine.

>>2568988
depends on what you want to do really. one book i think all artists should read though, regardless of what their art is, is Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner. The book is written for jazz musicians but applies to any sort of creative work.

>>2569018
not him, but thanks for the recommendation

>>2568758
12 hours isn't necessarily too much if you work up to it and don't do much else. But I was working 10-12 hours + shitty university diet + shitty late night university social things + no exercise + high levels of stress from deadlines.

On the flipside, good nutrition + exercise + no stressful deadlines (just drawing for yourself to improve) can probably support 12 hours a day, although I find somewhere around 8-9 is optimal for most people.

But to me FZD does not sound like an environment that promotes that kind existence. Indeed I believe Feng in one of his more recent videos says something about his students needing to eat better. And then just blows it off as "I don't wanna sound like your dad" - but I think that kind of advice can't be overstressed if you don't want to end up like me. And actually be consistently productive over an extended period of time.

>>2568760
because being a physical wreck and unable to take advantage of much of the stuff you worked for is really damaging for self-esteem I find. If I can't even leave the house and am exhausted by simply making breakfast how I am going to function in the world of work? Especially the art industry which is famously high stress and long hours. Obviously this consistently improves with recovery over the last year but it was certainly very psychologically damaging. Would have been better to just have an extra year and accomplish the same thing without debilitating myself.

>>2568797
yes, you're correct I didn't. I didn't mean to imply that I did. It was the tail end of 4 year degree.

How can you get less sleepy? I can easily sleep for 10 hours and still get sleepy in the day.

>>2567266
>hanging out with friends, drinking beer, smoking weed?

>DUDE
>WEED
>LMAO

>>2569123
see a doctor

>>2569123
stop sleeping so much, sloth

>>2567647
>You could argue that 16 hrs makes someone unproductive

yes, he could, and he would be right. based on factual, repeated studies on sleep, learning, the effects of overwork, he's objectively right.

why do some of you guys obsess over this ideal of overwork and destroying your own body without actually educating yourselves? you're really just going to take some concept artist's word for it that improvement and hours worked is some x=y linear function?

keep your body and mind healthy and your art will be better for it in the long run

>>2569233

this. It's called working smarter, not harder.

Of course working smart entails working hard, but it is not a linear function of time input. you are very right.

>>2567624
>I could hit it big with mediocre art if people latch onto my shit like Homestuck
I think you heavily underestimate how much work Andrew Hussie put into Homestuck and the art background he had before he started it.

>>2568618
post work pham

>>2567416
>meditation

what's that got to do with drawing? how does it help you?

>read this whole thread
>recently moved to uni
>last semester has been at least one all nighter a week, usually two
>grades worse despite working harder

FUCKKKKK I knew not sleeping was bad, but I'll have to make it a priority now

>>2569365

One way to help balance things is that in general, sleep > last minute cram studying, assuming you have some level of familiarity with the material and you haven't been just jerking around all semester.

Do you really need a diploma? Isn't hard work and talent enough?

Is there really anyone out there who can draw that doesn't get hired because there's no diploma?

>Sorry, your style is great but we need someone with a degree

>>2569365

Also, a HUGE FUCKING THING about living at Uni:

Don't eat trash every single day. If you have to eat out, grab something reasonably balanced like a sub sandwich, pasta or Chipotle. And drink your fucking water. Lots of it.

Trust me, if you've had bad eating habits before, you're going to feel a LOT better.

>>2568825
Judging by the stuff on their website it seems most of the time is spent constructing stuff in perspective and getting clean lines and rendering as cleanly as possible.

>fzd grads browsing /ic/ the loser of losers
Fuck, we're all not going to make it then

>>2569511
>i jelly pls give me attention

I'm a little confused by this thread. Seems like it is ill advised to work 16 hr days, but if you are smart about it, I don't see what the problem is.

I went to an engineering school, and I routinely pulled all nighters 2-3 days a week, stayed in lab for 24 hrs straight, and definitely booked 16 hr days for most of my last year to finish a thesis project.

And yes, you crash on the weekend and catch up and rest during the summer.

My point is - you guys should push yourselves a little bit because there are a lot of people who are pulling all nighters and 16 hour days in uni and you have to compete with them. To push yourself to a deadline is a useful skill.

>>2569339
Helps with memory retention among other things. Just scholar.google it.

>>2569549
People think it overworks you based on x scientific data that may or may not be correct. If you're worrying about overwork, you clearly must have your priorities straight, because people who want to get good won't care if they overwork.

>>2569570
Intelligent practice trumps cramming. If you want to get good, it's more important to have good direction than to put forth a lot of hours.

Obviously extra hours will help if you're already going in the right direction, but overworking can hinder progress.

>>2569365
lol

>>2569123
That's a sign of health problems.
1. Exercise - I recommend Stronglifts and/or cycling, just a total of 2-3 hours a week
2. Eat well, mostly avoid sugar. Sugar messes up your blood sugar levels and when they go down, you can feel lethargic. Try eating/drinking protein, like milk if you're not lactose-intolerant and see if your focus improves.
3. Be outside more, or work close to a window. Sunlight helps your brain to regulate your biological cycle of hormone production that cares for appetite, sleepiness, ...

It might take a few days before you feel an effect. Try two weeks? Or even build up slowly, doing all these three changes at once might be too much to handle long-term.

>>2569365
What field? Look into spaced repetition learning. Doesn't work for finals though, you have to do it every day you have a lecture.

>>2569741
Shut the fuck up ur not a doctor and all your speaking is broscience. Faggot retard cancer nigger

>>2569549

I also studied engineering and while in times I haven't really slept for 3 days, it's not really a common thing and one could do without it just with regular work. In truth most if not all of my peers did. You also process information better if you learn it for prolonged period of time but with normal workload and also time for relaxation, family, cooking and cleaning and all that jazz.

Really not a single one professional in their field work 16h/day maybe with exception of guys like in maintenance department in industry when something suddenly crashes and you have to fix it fast (though no, when I worked there it also haven't really happened, people working on the problem change if it's for very long).

Even workaholic PhDs at one point say "I have to get my daughter from kindergarten/I am off after...".

What I want to say - slaving 16h/day is terrible idea and only for people who fall for memes.

Sleep is the most important thing in the world.

Cetacea are mammals (Dolphin, Whales) that evolved to live in water all the time. They have to be conscious for each breath they take.

You would think Cetacea would get rid of sleep if it possible, but instead they shut off one hemisphere of the brain at a time. An animal with all the incentive of the world to get rid of sleep, but instead finds a way to shut off half it brain at a time.

Sleep is the most important thing in the world.

>>2569747
God, are you new? Why arent you in /b/? Anyhow, what anon said was actually true, i think you are just a triggered fatty/neet

>>2569747
http://www.uky.edu/~njdewa2/gailliotetal07JPSP.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2290997/#__sec7title

>>2569838
>>2569842
Yes, yes well done anons. HOWEVER taking meme advice from /ic/ is dumb. I mean stronglifts of all things? Stronglifts is literally the meme workout.

>>2568889
Sounds like you're one of the students that didn't take the program seriously. Angry at your lack of progress (saw your work) and taking it out on the program.

In reality, this program sets you up for everything you need. I couldn't draw before the program and the time I spent over there landed me a job.

Also, by saying that you drew with no direction shows how seriously you took the school. Either, you refused to listen to the instructors or you were one of the kids that fucked around and treated it like a vacation and the instructors saw that and didn't care about you after that.

Plus, the program is not about teaching you how to express yourself lol. They literally tell you that from day 1. This program is badass because there is a process that is teachable that isn't just "use your feelings to make it pretty." If you wanted to just experiment and fuck around with oil on cardboard, you should have gone to a shitty hometown art school and saved 40k.

Sorry m8. Good luck on your folio tho.

>>2569741

Hi,

Can you recommend a particular diet. I only eat fish as meat source.

But, I'm tired all the fucking time. 10 hours sleep tired, 8 hours sleep tired.

I really want to do art now, but I'm just laying down in bed wanting to sleep.

Maybe I have diabetes or something.

>>2569123
if you have a regular sleep shedule, it's probably your diet.
also exercise

>>2569867
why not eat some meat every now and then? also be careful with sugar and don't eat too much junk.

>>2569867
Different anon, but it sounds like you might have an iron deficiency. Red meats like beef are rich in it. Do you also bruise easily?

Quantity of sleep is important but so is quality. Are you going to bed and waking up at the same time everyday? You could have sleep apnea making you wake up every few hours but without you remembering. Do you have trouble falling asleep? Do you turn off electronic screens an hour before bed?

Could be a number of different issues. Not enough water. Not enough exercise. Depression, etc

>>2569867
Eat more veggies. Stop eating meat and drinking coffee. Buy oxygen mask. The air on the planet is already filled with tuberculosis bacillus especially in cities. You should protect yourself using mask with pure air. Don't open doors. Outside full of dangers to your health and radiation. Stop using PC. PC is dangerous for eyes. Don't sit. Throw away all chairs from your room because sitting is dangerous for health. And eat more veggies pls.

>>2569876

I cannot possible exercise because I'm too tired. Its very hard to exercise when all you want to do is eat and sleep.

That the thing, my diet is nearly all sugar. Mostly diary products.

>>2569877

My quality of sleep is really bad.

I do not bruise easily. I don't know about iron deficiency. I do not want to eat red meat, that is going too far in immortality. I feel guilty enough eating fish.

>>2569886
exercising more will give you more energy though. it's hard initially but it's a positive feedback loop.

maybe see a doctor and get bloodwork done, check if there's other health issues

>>2569867
Long reply about eating.

Overhauling your diet is a lot of work. I have no particular meal plan for you, just some suggestions. Oatmeal with fruits and milk is a strong breakfast. Eggs and chicken breast are protein options, cheap and easy to make.

If you're concerned about iron deficiency, eat a piece of fruit (banana, apple, ...) with your big meals and avoid coffee/tea around meals as they prevent iron absorption.

Trying to get one source of protein (milk, fish, eggs, meat, ...) and one veggie or fruit a meal will go a long way.

If your diet is absolutely horrible right now, I'd say to start by cutting out soda. Replacing it with unsugared tea or sparkling water is an option. After that, start eating meals and snacks at set times of the day - for routine purposes, so it's easier to manage what you eat and to think ahead.

Yet another suggestion: logging in a notebook every single thing you eat can help you without planning anything, just because you become self-aware of your worst eating habits.

Take small steps though. There might be a different cause besides diet, but improving any aspect of your life, will help you along. :) Much strength to you, anon!

Didn't see this yet >>2569886
How do you feel about eggs? Eggs combined with a source of vitamin C will give you plenty of iron and a nice boost of protein.

>>2569886
>That the thing, my diet is nearly all sugar. Mostly diary products.
that sounds bad. it is most likely the source of your problems.
iirc sugar will give you a push of energy but leaves you feeling depleted very quick.
of course i'm no expert, but try cutting back on the sugar.

if you're the all or nothing type like me, try completely stopping with sugar for a few days. i guarantee that you'll feel better. then afterwards adjust your diet accordingly.

Perhaps the sleep deprivation induced hallucinations are the secret to success

>>2569886
Repeating what others said, but take any small step towards reducing your average daily sugar intake, and increasing your daily physical activity.

Start with super easy stuff that you can maintain long term. If you drink 2 sodas a day, cut that to one and replace it with water. If you graze on chocolate all day, then reduce it by a fraction. Monitoring exactly what you eat is important. Don't aim for lifestyle overhauls. Instead focus on very minor changes over a long period of time.

For the exercise, do 20 push-ups a day (less if you can't manage that yet). Even better, go on a 10min walk daily. After a while up that to 20, then 30. If you're feeling it, you can transition into light jogging.

If you think you need to see a doctor regarding quality of sleep, then go for it. My bet's that you lack energy because you don't do enough physical activity. You'd think it drains energy, but over the course of the day it gives you back way more energy than you'd think you're wasting.

One positive lifestyle change can snowball into other areas. Start by just logging everything you eat. Check labels to get an idea of how much calories, sugar and fat is in a serving, and how many servings you ate.

>>2569855
Nice post, truer words have never been spoken.

>>2569881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HimvFbossU8

>>2568889
>>2568939
This is a long shot, but I feel like I'm in the same boat as you. I've been at a similar school as FZD and although I got a smattering of work, I'm at a dead spot in my career and now I'm doing shit I don't care about. As a result I've thrown my portfolio away and I'm making stuff that truly resonates with me. Any chance I can get your discord or a work email so I can have a correspondence?

Went to FZD, graduated, and started working.

Would recommend it... but only if you can drop your ego and feel nothing but excited about the opportunity.

You "work" 16 hours a day pretty regularly... but you are "working" in a room full of nerds and nerding out over mutual goals the entire time. exhausting, but so fun if you manage to keep your head on straight... which can be a challenge for some.

Sitting still and moving a pen for 16 hours is not the same as focused study for 16 hours.

I will say that after graduating and finding work I have been maintaining a very chill schedule. Still have the ability to turn on "fzd mode" when its needed... which seems to impress clients.

>>2570210
What was the class schedule and type of things you learn in them? Heard there was 3 different classes like character design.

sounds like a great way to destroy your wrist

>>2570210
damn man, can you offer some advice for a incoming freshman student?
How would you manage a 4 year work period?

>>2570210
How did you guys learn the fundies in like 2 months?

>>2570210
So if it's not focused, it's just ingrained in you, you mean. That's even more impressive than focused study.

>>2570217
doesn't really matter. all of the classes are about teaching you to recognize how bad you really are, how to design stuff that will get you a job, and present it at a level that will get you a job... the boundaries between classes are very blurred.

>>2570221
Will you keep in contact with us, anon and show us your progress.

>>2570227
no, i mean that the people who focus improve and the people that move the pen for 16 hours don't.

>>2570223
you are never done learning fundamentals

>>2570221
work harder/smarter than the rest of the people that want your job.

... honestly its corny as fuck but just remember that drawing spaceships and shit is fun as hell, because if it ever stops being fun you are not going to make it.

>>2570243
ok ok, one more question and I'll leave you alone, but would you consider that I work 16hrs a day?

>>2570232
What do they teach you to be able to do any of those?

>>2570248
and how do you avoid getting burnt out? Do you eventually get used to this kind of workload?

>>2570249
there's no magic lectures. They just tell you when you are wrong and its sort of up to you to figure out what right is through lots and lots of repetition.

>>2570258
If FZD isn't magic, how are people able to improve so quick in a year? What sets FZD apart from everything else?

last post for me :D

>>2570260
nothing does... its just that it has a bunch of awesome people working hard. The teachers work hard, most of the students work hard, and everybody gets drunk once at the end of the year before going home to (hopefully) keep working hard.

>>2570278
Thanks for your time.

>>2566589
>>2568700
Seconding. I started working right after uni and went for maybe 3-4 months of working all day, would sleep 6 hours, get up and work, crash and sleep again. Didn't take weekends or even sundays off. After those first 3-4 months though I'd lost track of all time, couldn't tell you if it was day or night without a window, didn't know the day or anything, and got health issues like crazy. Constant heart palpitations, and they would wake me up in the night and my body would wake up panicking and gasping for air.

That's if I managed to get to sleep with the insomnia at all. Stopped when it got so bad that I was having basically panic attacks; shortness of breath, hands and face going numb, almost passing out etc, but I didn't even know what was going on. Couldn't even tell I was stressed or sleep deprived I'd been working so long I numbed myself to it completely. Mentally thought I was fine, but my body breaking down that much showed I wasn't.

Took me maybe 6 months to get sleeping normally again, and even now without an alarm clock I end up sleeping 10 hours, I keep slipping back into being nocturnal, and I had to go on a heart monitor test for a week to see what the hell is up with these palpitations constantly.

Wouldn't recommend, no matter how fast you learn how to photobash.

>>2567624
>I could hit it big with mediocre art if people latch onto my shit like Homestuck or strike Patreon pay dirt like Questionable Content.
This only works if you have interesting jokes or narrative to catch people's attention to make up for middling art. Not to mention that Homestuck had a pre-established fanbase when it first started due to the author's previous comics.

Note that I didn't say quality necessarily, but crap content that's boring/flatly mediocre in both visuals and writing just isn't going to cut it. Unless you get really lucky and hit the sweet spot of some kind of niche by chance.

>>2570210
Is it worth going to FZD even if I don't want to do concept art?

I'm more interested in vis dev, storyboarding, and general animation. I know FZD is "entertainment design" but it seems heavily skewed towards concept art for games

>>2571294
Nobody can answer that question for you.

>>2571330
FZD grads can answer it by speaking about the curriculum. Is it mostly geared towards concept art? Or can the teachings help someone develop a style too?

We've had 3 different FZD grads post in this thread. They'd be able to answer that question.

>>2571348
It won't help you develop a style. You would know this if you read this thread or gone to their website or done any research whatsoever.

Not to be an ass but most artists I have met suck at math. No one is spending 16 hours a day drawing. At best I have squeezed in 14 on my rare days off. You have to take into account time to cook, clean, take shits and so on. People don't keep an accurate track of their time.

As far as cutting sleep goes that is bullshit too. You can get away with 6 hours of sleep most of the time but eventually you will need an average higher than that. Try it for one month and see how long it is before you start droning.

>>2567301
Noodle man ? is that you ? basicly what he said , im at fzd atm : ) just finished assignment so waisting 15 min of sleep in 4 chan , ill regret this tomorrow

>>2567345
Congrats for bringing back the grad show dude , im trying to guess who u are haha

>>2571469
Would you personally recommend the school for learning the fundamentals even if the goal isn't to be a concept artist?

>>2571348
Now theres 4 ^^ i mean ill graduate soon , hopefully hehe , probably comming here doesnt help , but school environment is great , harsh af , but great , if ure a positive person and motivated ull love the experience

>>2567301

>Stuff about health complications

I actually go to a lower tier design school where we even see some of that shit. One guy had a seizure in the middle of class due to exhaustion and stress or something. He had to drop out because when they took him to the hospital his doctor said that he was facing serious health complications from stress.

Other than that though, you get people getting in car crashes and shit due to exhaustion. I haven't heard of any other big health problems though. No heart attacks that I know of.

I'm actually no good though. That is the design program. I'm just in a fine arts program, which is a total breeze. The design program didn't seem like a good idea because it is too competitive, and if you don't pass portfolio review they don't let you move on to junior and senior classes. I didn't think I could make it since I'm learning and there are tons of people who are already skilled. Seemed like it would be a huge waste of money to take classes and then not be allowed to finish the program.

>>2571361

>cutting sleep is bullshit

nah dude. I mean, people crash at some point and get 10-12 hours or whatever, but it doesn't make up for a whole week of sleep deprivation. But that really isn't something to be proud of. I think forcing so much sleep deprivation on students is pretty unethical. If anything, it'd be nice if there was a way to enforce a law that didn't allow employers or schools to be so competitive that they made people destroy their health and endanger others on the road through lack of sleep. A ton of wrecks in my city are apparently from sleep deprivation, or so I heard.

>>2566461
Know someone who went there for half a year and completely collapsed under the pressure.
Yes, its all true.

So this thread is basically full of contradictions with some saying FZD is awesome if you work hard, and others saying exhaustion will cause serious issues with health.

Quality stuff.

>>2566461
>>2571611

ITT: people who need to see Whiplash

>>2571631

>>2571630
Literally 1st Worlders vs 3rd Worlders

>>2571630

There's no contradiction, if you push yourself to your limits, you take a risk. If it doesn't happen, good for you.

> See Algenpfleger for how to get gud fast at tendinitis.

Everyone is different, especially in his ability to support stress and recuperate. My own experience (it was not in art though) is that my body broke before my mind. Still sucks though.

>>2571361
>You have to take into account time to cook, clean, take shits and so on. People don't keep an accurate track of their time.

This is what I'm thinking a lot of people saying they worked 16 hrs a day are doing.

Before I started tracking my time with time panther I didn't realize how little actual drawing time I spent. If you remove all the pissing/shitting, shit talking on 4chan and looking at youtube videos that 8 hrs actually becomes more like 4 or 6.

>>2571845
I always lol when I see Algenpfleger's work. her work process is so inefficient and her desire to achieve nonconsequential color shifts led her to her tendinities. How much of her time is really her spent 'licking' the tablet with her stylus hoping that one of her 50+ strokes will be that 'magic' one? Magic cards don't really pay that much, so by the time she paints enough of them to cover rent, she'll be crippled.
this leads the question: how much time does anon think before laying down a line or a swatch of paint? 'measure twice cut once' should apply to art as much as carpenting, but the wood isn't whats being cut, its your wrist.

>>2571993
appleflinger is a dude, bro
>man

>>2571994
I don't know why, but that makes me lol even more.

>>2571993

I read he makes enough money with a weeks worth of work to cover rent, that's a bit less than 2 days a week. I'm sure that he can handle it.

>>2572038
>I'm sure that he can handle it.
Not anymore!

Welcome to the fucking Army, Anon.

Joking aside, it gets difficult after a week even with shooting and explosives to function sleep deprived. Probably exaggeration to prepare people for pulling 12 to 16 hour study sessions somewhat regularly.

>>2567582
>how do they take shit-tier-needs-loomis scrubs and make art gods out of them in one damn year?

they don't. they'll happily take your money (no refunds, of course) but you'll more than likely drop out and even if you manage to graduate you won't be professional level.

there's no examples online of people going in with zero drawing experience and coming out fantastic artists after one year. if there were, that example would be fucking everywhere because of how amazing it would be.

>>2568329
>>2568560
have you heard of diminishing returns?

>>2572896

What about Alex Jessup from this before/after page?

>>2572896
>>2572914

forgot the link
http://fzdschool.com/entertainment-design/before-and-after

>>2572914
>>2572915
ok, there's one example.

>>2572915
>>2567399
haha lookin at this really makes me realize how much i'm always underestimating the power of pespective. it's not like i don't know how to use it, but i just never do, not to this extent anyway. noted, noted.

>>2572903

second guy you replied too, diminishing returns exist but not to the extent that a lot of people on ic thinks they do.

Past 12 hrs I'd say the returns you experience diminish to the point your better off taking breaks and doing life stuff rather than studying anymore. Before then you will get significantly better by practicing even in the 8-12 hr mark.

What people also fail to recognize a lot is the inverse of diminishing returns. There is a point your studying so little that your basically just in holding pattern and not improving at all.

You can call it anecdotal evidence, but there is so many examples of people studying 12-13 hrs a day and improving really quickly that I can't argue it doesn't work.I haven't really heard of any examples of the inverse, someone works 3-4 hrs a day and gets to pro level in 2 years, even if it exists it's extremely rare.


That said if your doing 4 hrs a day consistently your still ahead of 90 percent of aspiring artists, you will achieve professional level work eventually but around 2-3 times slower.

My wrist kills me after 6 hours even with proper stretching.

I don't know about you guys but I figure out the most things in my breaks. Nothing beats working a good time and then just resting on an empty mind and figuring out the world on the side.

>>2573158

Have you tried to use your left hand? There are a lot of stuff you can use it for, maybe not everything but it would lessen the stress on your right wrist.

ok so how much money are we talking if someone would want to attend fzd for a whole year?

>>2573198
$30,000 (40,000SGD) is the course fee for international students, i can't find if that includes accommodation or not

>>2573210
so how much would it cost living there?
im guessing 50k at least in addition to course fees

I really want to know what do the top students actually do for practicing every day

>>2573210
You left out taxes and other fees. Total cost of attendance is S$51,000.00, S$42,800.00 of which is tuition.

According to >>2567404 living expenses are around S$25,000/year.

So, total cost is S$76,000.00 or roughly USD$56,000.00.

>>2573222
>roughly USD$56,000.00.

>>2573222
>USD$56,000.00.

Lots of rich kids must be attending fzd, 112 k for 2 years there.I could live off of that for 5 years easy and not have to kill myself while learning.

>>2573267
Tuition for the second year is cheaper. Still, I think it's a pretty stupid financial decision unless your parents are bankrolling you or you just have that money lying around.

>>2569274
We are all gonna make it guys, r-right?
>Mfw running out of time

>>2573997
>Mfw running out of time
Why? whats the rush? are you dying anytime soon?

>>2574061
Our sun is dying.

>>2574062
Well yea but you will most likely be dead before the mass extinction of the human species

Might see an economic collapse though, or a third world war in the form of a cyber war for information, or most countries become a surveillance society where everything you do is spied upon (you have nothing to hide, do you?)

>Running out of time
Just do it and deal with whatever comes later and wing it, everyone can make it

>>2574061
Can't neet forever

>>2574061
>>2574067
Not him, but I'm NEETing at my parents' and have till September to collect enough money for moving out + have a self-sustainable stream of income. Can't turn to selling blowjobs either because of a monogamous relationship with another basement dweller.

Also this >>2574062

>>2571496
no i wouldnt , u can learn the fudamentals without spending money

>>2571630
uhm , im here now and basicallly u can separate us in groups :
>people with industry experience ( knowledge and dealt with stress before) -top of the class
>people who work hard and deal well with the stress and harsh critics and insults ( yes theres one teacher who might insult u ounce or twice and trust me its not Feng)-middle of the food chain
>people who might work hard or not but go down with stress and are insecure and pessimist -rock bottom and dropouts ( there are some exceptions of people who make it big in school while being depressed af)

>>2574091
>insults
Like?

>>2571630
>saying exhaustion will cause serious issues with health.
DON'T FORGET TO EAT VEGGIES
WORLD IS DANGEROUS

>>2573216
what do you mean ? , if u want top students i can link u a bunch fresh ones straight out of the fzd oven but one hing most have in common is they wont be found on social media or dont even check it

>>2574101

Link them.

>>2574095
>lmao i'm underage and will stay underage forever
fuck off

>>2574115
>h-h-he's underage!
Retard pls. Most people who cares so much about health are insane IRL. All this theoretical bullshit ITT about "healith" is comedy gold for me. Do you even serve in military? What do you think about GMO?

>>2566559
I have been sleeping like 3 hours daily in 9 months because of art school, i am still alive.

>>2573997
Not gonna make it

>>2574067
>>2574071
>I can't make time for my hobbies and already making up excuses on why I should just give up
Not gonna make it

>>2574149
Actually not giving up, got 5k saved up now, 2k incoming, would like ~6k more for buffer. Was giving an example of why time could be "running out"

>>2574124
>Most people who cares so much about health are insane IRL
>cares so much about health
>this thread
>"so much"
this is nothing. i have been through military training myself and most military minded people i know also take good care with their health. none of this is in the realm of "crazy" you edgy fuck.
even in the military they won't let you exhaust yourself to that extent. long ass marches are nothing if you can rest and heal from it afterwards.

>discussion about an overpriced school turns into a discussion where perpetually short of breath, weak kneed fatties with rapidly degenerating spines post meme reaction pictures in response to the very notion of having health concerns

>This thread

>>2574163
Health is serious business. Don't joke about it!
>http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/laughter-s-8-benefits-and-6-risks-1.2463532
It's not fun!

How do people afford this school? how do you afford to live, buy food, pay for rent, pay for whatever else? Can you do this all on loans?
>>2570210
>>2568889

Those pathetic NEETs that think making a career out of art is their last hope is hilarious as fuck. It's like some pathetic poorfag working the lottery hard every week.

Having a stable job and improving on the side is completely stress free and I can look forward to future opportunities that I don't even need to guarantee my existence.

>>2574181
>Those pathetic NEETs that think making a career out of art is their last hope is hilarious as fuck.
Why? Everyone can learn how to draw :^

>>2574184
It's stressful working like that and you might not even find consistent work even if you are profecient. Stong anxiety about the future and depression which comes with taking days off and feeling even worse. Just getting a regular job is easy as fuck compared to making a career out of art. When you work you can still pursue your dream, cutting off most stressmakers in the process.

>>2574189
>Stong anxiety about the future and depression which comes with taking days off and feeling even worse.
If you're NEET for 2 years+ you will feel nothing. Like a machine

>>2574176
Rich parents

>>2574192
I talk from experience. NEETs are not like the emotionless anime faggots they wish to be. Being a NEET comes from several negative feelings. I was a NEET for 3 years and once I got a job the entire stress and the hard feelings were immediately gone.

>>2574195
I'm NEET with 5 years experience. I feel nothing.

>>2573267
1) 95% of students do 1 year.
2) Do you know how much college costs in the US?
3) $/yr before school+ cost of school < $/yr after school.

>>2574652
Tons of poor fags in here probably don't even go to college

>>2574661
then we arent complaining about FZD... we are complaining about the job market of 2016.

>>2566461
>Mfw I tried to track exactly how much time I spent drawing versus procrastinating
Fuck

>>2574953

Not gonna make it.

>>2574953
Same here.

>>2574090
Good to hear from someone in the school saying that it's not worth it just for the fundamentals.

I think the biggest thing about FZD is job placement and getting your name into the industry. But since I don't want to do concept art it doesn't seem like a valuable school for me

>>2574999
What app is that?

>>2567423
What's your point ? Most top brass professionals have studies at least that long before getting any kind of work.Android Jewns studied for 6 years. And now he shilled 50 g's. Where are your 50g's anon ?Show me one big name artist that started working professionally after only a year of actually studying art and I'll tell you how wrong you are factually.

>>2575002
Rescuetime.

If you don't mind, I have a referral: https://www.rescuetime.com/rp/Ddd
It's free to use, with a premium version.

You can also set it to ignore certain websites ;)

What sorts of projects are assigned to the students early on in the term?

>>2567423

I'm more bothered by the
> Thanks to meditation
part, but maybe it's just me.

>>2567416 has mastered the Triple Blossom Meditation Technique and can visualize the great masters teaching him the craft.

>>2575370
Meditation helps you focus. That's literally what it is, removing thought to focus on (emptiness, breath, plants etc). By training yourself to hold focus for as long as possible you learn to focus on tasks without distraction.

There is scientific practical reasoning behind the act of meditation.

Then again this is 4chan so I don't think you'll research or be willing to contemplate anything I've written.

Sounds like something crazy little monkey gooks would do. Destroy their brain, the source of creativity, in pursuit of useless makework to please their professors.

Bill Gates got eight hours of sleep every night while helming Microsoft, even while navigating the anti trust suit.