/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>2478782
>i can draw in 3d
>ive done loomis and all that horseshit

Wrong

>>2478782
Yea... no
If you would have actually gone through the sticky and even start any Loomis studies you would be better than this by now. Maybe you read them but you did not study them in the slightest

also, what makes you think this deserves its own thread? you should be posting in the beginner thread, to streamline responses and keep clutter off the board. Thank you

>>2478788

Yes, i've gone through the fucking loomis books. I do exactly what he does.

And I posted in the beginner thread, and got the same shitpost.

>>2478791
Yeah the only shitposts here are your own. Flipping through a book and copying one or two drawings is not studying

>>2478794

I don't "copy"

>>2478782

>I know how to draw in 3D

You really, really, really don't.

wew lad

>>2478800
Well obviously the problem isn't loomis. An since you "do exactly what he does" then maybe your little problem could be solved with some basic logic?

>>2478806

I know how to draw a fucking cube, sphere, cone, etc. It's not hard.

>>2478782

lol you need to step away from the Loomis and backpedal to something like Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain or Keys to Drawing. You're not drawing what is there, you are drawing what you think is there. Loomis or anyone else will be useless to you unless you break out of the symbol drawing hell.

>>2478827

I AM DRAWING WHAT IS THERE, HOLY FUCK.
I don't do that "what I think is there. I DRAW EXACTLY WHAT I FUCKING SEE.

God are you people retarded

loomis is above you. Read drawing on the right side of the brain or keys to drawing. Both are very very very beginner friendly, you'll be right at home with those books. Then you can try big boy stuff like loomis.

>>2478829

You need to be trolling because I refuse to believe there are people this un-self-aware in the world.

>>2478832

kill yourself

I am not fucking symbol drawing you autistic niggers

>>2478815
1.maybe be a bit less hostile when you're asking for help, especially when it's clear you don't know what you're doing

2.Drawing in 3D isnt restricted to literally drawing a sphere, a cube, a cone. You need to understand how to draw these shapes from any and all angles, and then translate this spacial understanding into connected complex 3d forms

>>2478842

Well considering I'm just being flooded with shitposts. I know how to fucking draw in 3D and I know I am not symbol drawing. Thats the only fucking response anyone gives on this fucking place.

>>2478829

If you were drawing exactly what you saw it would look like a real person.

Don't take this the wrong way; I'm sure you're trying your absolutely hardest to draw what you see in front of you. The issue is that you are currently bad at it. If you really somehow retained everything you read in Loomis (based on your drawing it doesn't seem like you did, but I'll take your word for it) then the only thing you can do now is get mileage on your pencil.

EVERYONE is symbol drawing. The trick is getting good enough at it to trick people into thinking what they're looking at is accurate. Art isn't something you can just understand by reading a book. Loomis isn't a magic formula, it's a guideline to help you practice more efficiently. All books will guide you, but they won't make you an artist. You learn how to draw by drawing, so just keep doing it. If you give up, you will never be an artist. If you keep going, eventually you will be. That's up to you.

>>2478791
>>2478815
>>2478829
>>2478837

ITT: literally mad cause bad

>>2478846
>everyone gives same response
>IM NOT WRONG EVERYONE ELSE IS

How do you not see the issue here OP
Lose the ego

>>2478829
Get your eyes checked then.

pic related: literally everyone in this thread

all of you complain about how /ic/ is a shit board yet still reply to trolls and bait

>>2478856

it's a good thing smart people like you are here to protect this board from idiots like me

>>2478856
/ic/ died after the sakimikron shitstorm
Its just a husk

>>2478857
i'm just baffled how these people have the motor skills to function day-to-day and still can't recognize when someone is shitposting after 20 replies

wouldn't be surprised if they fell for a nigerian scam in the past

>>2478861

I'm not shitposting.

Instead of giving legit help. All you autists can do is spam loomis and shit that I've already done.

>>2478866
It is legit help. Youre just refusing to listen to it.
If you had done loomis, the head you drew would look like a loomis head. It does not. Go study.

>>2478867
ive fucking done loomis, i do exactly what he does. Fuck off

>>2478861

i figure that it's most likely bait but it's not impossible for someone this aggressive to be posting on this board and i'd rather give them at least one post worth of advice than completely shrug them off as bait

>>2478866

at the level you're on the best advice is to just keep practicing. improving the mouth and nose will do very little for the drawing because you don't fully understand the fundamentals yet. i understand that you read them, but you need to work at them. you can't play the piano just by reading a book about music theory.

>>2478873
If you had done loomis, the head you drew would look like a loomis head. It does not. Go study.

>>2478877

if you weren't an autist, you wouldn't be posting bullshit. Go kill yourself

>>2478884
>posting bullshit

Hmm, look at this bullshit that Loomis taught me how to draw. How weird. I should probably kill myself since i can't draw as well as an artistic prodigy such as yourself.

>>2478829
Lol, just give up.

>>2478859
4chan died as soon as it was born.
We've been living in the husk our entire lives fooling eachother into thinking it's alive.

>>2478873
Unless you've only read Fun With a Pencil, no you fucking don't.

>>2478888

Well then all mighty asshole, enlighten me on what to do. Because I've watched a ton of the proko vids, done loomis, vilppu, and all that shit, and seemingly still have trouble. So I don't know wtf to do. I'm not going to waste time drawing a bunch of useless cubes when I could be working on drawing people.

>>2478782
loomis here, you're symbol drawing, study my book more.

>>2478893
Well since you're being such a shit to everyone, no. I won't help you. Enjoy mediocrity, scrub.

>>2478893
Okay, then here's a good one:
Where are your proper construction lines?
If you did it by-the-book-loomis, the proportions wouldn't be so out of fucking whack.

It seems like you merely free-handed this shit, which is a terribly bad idea with that level of figure drawing.

His right ear implies that he's facing more towards stage-right, while his facial features are rendered as if he's looking straight at the viewer.

>>2478898

I'm being shit to everyone? Howabout all the people spamming me with shitposts instead of actual help?

>>2478857

It really is pretty obvious though.

I can understand a genuine retard making the OP, but when you read the follow up posts it should be pretty easy to realize he's fucking with you.

>>2478904
It is actual help you idiot you just refuse to acknowledge it. You OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND 3D FORMS. YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT GRASP LOOMIS'S METHODOLOGY.

seriously, don't draw human until you can control your line and observation skill draw fucking eraser..pencil whatever shit on table first do this 1 month

No, you are no drawing exaclty what you see. You do not see black lines, you see lights and shades. You should master them of you want a photorrealistic piece of art. Your eyes look plain and the head proportions are just off. Be sure you are looking straight from above the paper and take your pics from that same angle. You need to learn that the human flesh is on bones. Learn the skull structures, the facial muscles and how shadows act on the facial features. Your pencil technique is poor, you don't seem to handle your pencil correctly since you can't shade neither with crosshatching nor with blur. You can't transfer colors to a monocromatic dimension and don't seem to understand how contrast (essential part of lights and shades) works.

Practice moar, study moae. Crying won't help, we have no instant formula or easy path. If you want sugar-coated commentaries you are on the wrong website. If you can't handle criticism stop drawing and give up art

>>2478909

I didn't bother with shading, considering people on here said you can look 3D without shading, so I am holding off on that...

>>2478929
You gave it up here.
Too absurd to be believable.

>>2478931
He gave it up 5 posts in.

>>2478931

gave it up? All i said was I didn't bother shading yet...

>>2478893

the picture I drew from was straight on, only 1 ear was visible

>>2478960

and the ear was sticking out a bit. So idk

>>2478900

and if not free hand, then what? Tracing is a bad habit.

>>2478791

> I do exactly what he does

Which is why your heads are so great rite m8

>>2478969

look, i can never get the jaw correct. One side is always completely different than the other. I can barely ever get the base down. I do the circle, cut off the sides, establish the chin, then it all goes downhill from there.

>>2478974
When the people calling this bait don't sage...

>>2478782
Hey op i've been where you are at
listen very closely:

READING LOOMIS BOOKS≠STUDYING LOOMIS

>>2478982

Why read something that I can watch via proko shit? And yet I still struggle?

>>2478983

The sad thing is you're going to get somebody.

>>2478983
yeah i was where you were at:
"Drawing shapes is easy"
"Drawing in perspective isn't hard"
dude
try drawing a chair adjacent to your POV
it was a splash of cold water on my dunning krueger

>>2478987

If I take my time I can draw something relatively good. If it's a non-person.

When it comes to faces/people. I don't care how much time I spend, it still comes out bad.

I just want to be able to draw realistic concept art/sketches. Not that animu shit. Thats all.

I draw/think in 3D yet it looks like I don't. If I took my time it might be better. But the main focus of this whole thing was drawing the jaw evenly on both sides. Thats the one thing I REALLY need help with. The other stuff I can work on no problem.

>>2478991
Just draw them evenly then retard.

>>2478991
>>2478993
honestly its not that simple especially for beginners.
The face has many planes use google to find an example and try to study it a few times from different angles.
Use measuring tools if shit aint going evenly especially with traditional
honestly you can't expect the first hundred studies to be professional

>>2478993

I fucking try, one side always comes out rounded and the other side is jagged for whatever reason. I don't know what the fuck the issue is. But go fuck yourself you rude prick.

>>2478991

>I draw/think in 3D yet it looks like I don't.

If it doesn't look like you draw three-dimensionally, you don't. The entire point is creating an illusion of three dimensionality, and if you fail to do it, you didn't do it. What you think is irrelevant if you fail to follow through with your technical ability.
I know you're shitposting but here's my advice anyway. Work with basic shapes. Wrap cross-contour lines around spheres and cylinders, draw cubes. Once you're confident you can do that in a way that doesn't look bad, move on to drawing the planes of the face. You can find plenty of examples of facial planes.
Just apply what you know from basic shapes. The facial planes are an extension of that.

>>2479002

Well how do I get the mouth/nose to not look like goddamn blobs. I try to emulate what other people do and they just look like flat as fuck symbols, no matter how 3D I try making them.

>>2479008

Study noses/mouths. I know that sounds like useless advice, but if you look at something like pic related you can easily identify the basic shapes of a nose. As you can see, Loomis addresses this.

In order to get a good looking feature of any sort you need to identify the simple shapes first. Details are built on top of it. Eventually you can discard the construction once its so ingrained you can visualize it without drawing that, but before that draw the damn thing. It amazed me when I first started drawing noses how useful that simple little blocky shape was. You referred to watching Proko, his nose tutorial isn't bad for this either.

>>2479022
not op but as a fellow beginner please post more anon

>>2479023

You can probably find the full book PDF in the book thread, it's from Andrew Loomis, Drawing the Head and Hands. There's a big repository of great resources in the OP usually.

>>2479022

I mean i've downloaded all of his dumbass books but I dont have the attention span to sift through all the bullshit, thats why i prefer videos/tried proko, but still struggle like shit.

Especially when proko has posted videos with inaccurate content. Like that box video. "This is an impossible box, if you see the left/right side of a box, it HAS to have the top/bottom lines converging up/down. Which is not entirely true.

Considering if you're looking straight at the box, it's a perfectly straight square. If YOU stay where you are, but move directly left/right. That doesnt mean the box is turning. The lines stay how they are.

>>2479027

Have you looked at Perspective Made Easy? It goes over the basics of how boxes work with vanishing points, it will simplify the idea considerably.

Get over your short attention span. I struggle with books as well, they're still useful. Take it a few pages at a time if you must, but don't ignore them. I'm a huge advocate for tutorial videos but books have depth that Proko doesn't.

>>2479028
yes ive got like every resource ever shown on ic.

I've even done the shit on draw a box/other yt vids that are supposed to help hand control.

My curves are always way off still, too.

It's just hard to practice/improve, considering if all you're practicing is wrong/bad techniques, all you're doing is mastering utter shit.

>>2479032

Line control comes with time. The flaws in OP aren't problems with linework, they're problems with bad (read: lack of) construction and symbol drawing.
The OP doesn't make any use of construction whatsoever, it shows no understanding of basic shapes. If you're not a shitposter I implore you, look at the image posted in >>2479022 and draw the nose in step one. Look at it, it's a few simple straight lines. You can even use a ruler if you want. But show that you can draw that nose. Just flat out copy it, exactly as you see it. If you can't be assed to do step one of that drawing, then you're shit out of luck, nobody can help you.

>>2479036

>>2479042
i messed up the less visible side slightly but w/e.

>>2478815
>tfw i can draw a figure at "almost" any angle from imagination

Feels good man.

>>2478782
Eyes, noses, and mouths are all 3d object, anon. If you can draw 3d, break them down into their 3d components.

>>2479042

That's not bad, it's considerably better than the OP image. Perhaps a little rushed, but still.

Now, you say you've done the other exercises you said you have. How well do you understand how shapes like cubes work? Can you turn a cube in your head, and draw it at different angles?
Would you be able to turn those simple in the abstraction of a face shapes to a different angle in a similar way? Or, if you were looking at a reference, would you be able to reduce it to a similar simplified abstraction?

Think of all the features in the same way. They're all forms, they all have planes. They can all be reduced to similar things to what you drew.

>>2479042
The skull and face plane are pointing in different directions.

>>2479051

for the most part yes but that proko vid confused the fuck out of me.

"this is an impossible box, if you're standing directly in front you can't see either side"

fine

"if the box turns, the top/bottom lines will converge upwards/downwards.

but what if the box stays in front of you, but YOU move directly left/right? The box doesn't do that. And someone called him out on one of the boxes being wrong. I forget which.

>>2479064

I'm not sure quite what video you're referring to, but most boxes can be understood with a simple understanding of how horizons work.
You say you've read perspective made easy, so I'll believe you. You'll remember he talks about horizon lines. It's at eye level - if you're standing above a box you'll see the top (IE the box will be below the horizon line), if you're standing below you'll see the bottom (IE it's below it), simply enough.
You know about the vanishing point, I presume. With one-point perspective there's one, two-point there's two... This is, of course, explained in the book in more detail.

So do the basic determination. Is the box above your eye level, or below?
Are you facing the box head on? Then it might be one-point. The parallel lines of the box converge at one point. Can you see more than one side, IE you can see the edge of the box? Then it's two point. There are parallel lines for different sides of the box which converge at two different vanishing points.
This principle can be applied to the planes of a face too, of course.

Again I encourage you to check the book rather than go solely off of what I say, I'm a bit drunk and he no doubt explains it better.

>>2479064
You moving is the same as the box turning you dense motherfucker.

>>2479073
No it isn't.

>>2479077
Yeah it is get the dingleberries out of your eyes mr I can draw in 3D space.

>>2479082

i didnt post that

>>2479072

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uEtdDvK6Xo

>>2479089

He talks a little about horizon lines a little, I'd say focus on that. Horizons and vanishing points are surprisingly easy to conceptualize. When you see examples of perspective drawing they can seem awfully technical and fucked up but it's actually really simple. Again, perspective made easy simplifies it quite well. I encourage you to just work through it a little. I'm a lot like you, I have a short attention span for books, but it's a very approachable book.

With 'impossible box', parallel lines shouldn't appear literally parallel. Yes, they are parallel in reality, but in terms of your perception there's foreshortening. They need to converge. Converge to towards a vanishing point. If you understand horizons and vanishing points this will seem really simple.

>>2479106

I should use "drawing the head and hands", no?

>>2478782
Bait thread?
Bait thread.
Bane thread.
Bane.

>>2479608

If you want to learn to draw the head and hands.

If you're complaining about perspective you should consult a perspective book.

>>2478782
So judging by your responses, I don't think you're trolling, just frustrated.
Frustration is understandable since you try to draw what you think or know you're to draw, but it doesn't come out the way you want.
This is because you don't handle certain details of action, such as you don't calculate where your hand needs to be to catch a ball, you just "do" it.
Similarly, when you try to draw you don't get access to the details of how you move your hand and arm, but rather higher level ideas.
This disconnect leads to the problems and frustration beginners experience. The solution is to train these unconscious parts to perform the appropriate fundamental steps of motion and visual intuition
to draw what you want.
People are saying you haven't studied the resources properly because you haven't achieved this training, but rather have come to a bare minimum conscious grasp of what to do.
Studying the books is about directed practice, focusing on specifically the intuition you need to develop for technical ability.
This is not something you read/watch and understand, or copy a few times and understand. You must grind certain ideas to the point where you brain intuitively applies them when needed by
drawing as much as possible while trying to force yourself to draw correctly (you won't improve, or at least not very quickly, without forcing yourself to struggle as the unconscious brain learns
best with strong feedback).
This unconscious ability is the noticeable difference between beginners and those beyond.
Hopefully you appreciate this even if its obvious, because it is why there is no miracle tip or video.
No amount of threads made in frustration will uncover the secret way to click on your ability to draw, even the most helpful anon will only be able to provide you with similar advice and material you'll find in the sticky.

>>2479649
I cant imagine anyone looking at loomis' heads/hands and drawing that. >>2478782

Especially someone who understands the bare minimum of what symbol drawing is.

>>2479665
You can see the erased construction lines, he likely attempted to apply the method from imagination. While he probably understands what symbol drawing is, he thinks he's using a method which does not use it and so draws the conclusion that he isn't symbol drawing and the method is ineffective. I'll admit the OP image is maybe especially bad for even a first implementation of the technique, but he also used an unfortunate angle and likely did it for the sake of the thread. He clearly tries when drawing the planes of the face above.

>>2479693

I haven't really placed the construction/placement lines because it would end up making a mess. I end up eyeballing stuff based on what the placements are.

>>2479747

Draw the damn lines. Do it lightly, once you add some darker lines you'll hardly notice them anyway and they can be erased easily if you're not digging your pencil into the paper or some shit.

You're not experienced enough to eyeball it, you don't magically internalize this stuff just by imagining it.

How toi truthfully learn art? I have a huge folder of art pdfs and the vilppu videos...

Where do I start? Loomis doesn't do it form me. Drawing with the right side of the brain doesn't do it for me.

Is there something for talentless hack-idiots who have to study in a "special" dummy way?

I'd be already happy if I could draw like this:

>>2479796

How much time did you devote to either of those books that didn't do it for you?
Not just reading but actual application. You won't be good at it overnight.

In the loomis books, head wise, what information should i look into/what should i ignore, seeing as ive heard his books have a lot of nonsense babbling.

>>2479953
I think that's Right side of the brain you're thinking about, not one by Loomis.

>>2478782
I've read your posts in the beginner thread and I think you would be a great challenge for the "teachers" in this board. I've asked you this before, but do you have two functioning eyes and do you understand the difference between 2d and 3d?

can you draw a simple cube and post it here?

>>2479958
That's a creative way of saying 'POST UR WURK'
You can just look at the blog thread or something to see what kind of people post here.

>>2479962
nah, man just post a couple of cubes so we can see if you understand drawing in 3d.

OP you gotta do what every single person here has done or has yet to do. Drop your ego.

Accept that you suck, accept that you're a beginner and MOVE ON. Just about everyone who starts out drawing thinks they're better than they are and everyone hits a wall where they can't figure out why their stuff looks so bad. It's not for a lack of trying, it's for a lack of understanding. It takes TIME and practice to get good.

The books are only guidelines that other people may have found useful, but YOU have to work at it. Don't like drawing cubes, cylinders, or cones? Then draw heads, arms, feet, hands, and bodies....over and over and over. If it looks wrong then LOOK UP references of those parts in that position on google. People have made color coded anatomy diagrams that even retards could understand. Memorize them.

There is no right way to learn...there is just learning. Do what works for you.

>>2478782

This fucking guy... AGAIN.

>>2478782
>i read a book, i did the drawings, nothings working.
good. now do 10000 more drawings.
yes.
ten thousand.
and you will be nearing getting gud.

>>2478815
>I know how to draw a fucking cube, sphere, cone, etc. It's not hard.
It's funny because if this were true, your face would not look like it was constructed with 2D shapes. It would look 3D. Like it's supposed to. But it does not. I think you need to accept that you do not in fact, know how to draw basic 3D shapes and that this is something you need to study. Draw a box, a real life box, that's physically in front of you, and rotate it and draw it from various angles. Put other shapes on the box. Like cones and triangles. This will help you understand. If you believe you are already capable of doing this, then please post proof.

>>2479988
people like you are the cancer of the board

>>2479957

loomis has a lot of babbling too.

>>2480028

oh hi OP

>>2478782
Just feel it, bro.

>>2478782
You just don't have the "spark"

>>2478969
Is this achievable natty?

>>2480039

kill yourself with that meme bullshit

Here, I drew one of my console boxes I had sitting around on a shelf. Go ahead, tear me apart because it's not perfect.

>>2480141
>105 replies

good lord and hes not even trying, people.

>>2480141
You just proved to everyone here that you don't know perspective. Accept it and practice more.

>>2480146

I don't know perspective?

I DREW A BOX EXACTLY HOW IT'S SITTING IN FRONT OF ME. HOLY FUCK

>>2480146

I measured the angles and shit with the fucking pencil, you can't tell me it's wrong when I measured it fucking correctly.

>>2480151

This just proves this board is full of retarded trolls that shouldn't be listened to, op

Alright, I want in on this overcrowded thread too. OP, frustration is normal at your stage, but what i siggest you'd do is draw a bunch of heads, hands, vases, goats etc, from reference. You can copy loomis or any photo you have around. Draw that to your best ability, then do the cardinal sin and -trace- the reference. Compare the freehand drawing with the trace, and it should be more obvious what you're missing and what you should be working on.
It's obviously easier in digital but you could also draw on paper from.a ref on the monitor, then do a trace over the monitor like a lightboard and then compare the two, overlap them and note the differences. This has helped me a lot, it really teaches you to see in a different way. But you can't just do it once. The more you do it the faster you'll improve, and soon enough you won't need the trace and can just eyeball to check for differences.
Pic somewhat related.

>>2480155

considering I just drew a box exactly how it's sitting above me on a fucking shelf and I still get accused of not knowing perspective, whats the fucking point?

Why do I get the feeling 99% of the people criticizing have no idea what the fuck they're talking about anyway.

>>2480164
hi OP

here is your (you)

>>2480165

Not OP, but nice try.

>>2480158
That box isn't in perspective bruh

>>2480175

"bruh"

the box is draw exactly how its fucking sitting above me. You can't tell me it's fucking wrong when THATS HOW ITS SITTING

>>2480179
No it's not retard that's an impossible box.

>>2480149
>>2480158
i haven't visited /ic/ in 8 months and this was the first thread i saw. regarding your box, drawing from life when practicing perspective works a bit differently from say, drawing an apple, it's a bit deceptive really.
anon, when drawing the box, did you establish the vanishing point(s)? the diagonal lines on the box you drew don't seem to point to a particular spot. you can see what i mean in the image.
try not to get burnt out anon, if you're feeling stressed from this thread it's alright to take a break

Tell me again how the box is wrong in perspective "bruh"

>>2480185
It's wrong in perspective bruh. Look how the top edge goes up from left to right but you drew it completely horizontally. You can't see the bottom edge from the shelf so you imagined it but didn't account for the fact that being farther away would make it smaller.

Right side of the Brain
vs
Loomis

Which one do I start with and follow?

I might as well call it quits, none of this shit is going to click no matter how much I try. And even if I do anything remotely right/ask for advice on here I'll get get retard responses.

>>2480203
how do i draw a box within an box?

>>2480213
Draw "stylized" cartoons or make funny shitty animation. Animation is usually funny when the art is shit

>>2480214
I didnt mean to reply to you. but to answer, right side, then loom.

>>2480213
>anon who can't even draw a box correctly calls others retarded

>>2480215

fuck that

all I want to do is character concept art, not that animu/cartoony bullshit

>>2480222

Take some cyanide you sandnigger

>>2480224
dude if you've only just picked up a pencil then try not to set your expectations too high, you'll just get burnt out. the process should be fun, just draw shit you like and practice in between (and when i say shit you like, i mean things that are satisfying to draw, not what you want to do but struggle with (that's what the practice part is for))
anyway, no amount of loomis will save you from shit character design

OP, I think that you shuld go with Perspective Made Easy first. Read it, do the exercises, and memorize everything before coming down with Loomis.

>>2480158
Well, that's the problem right there. Generally, drawing from life is considered the best, for studies, portraits, landsapes etc. But in order to accurately compare your work from the source, you need to work from photos or accurate drawings. Draw what you see, to the best of your ability, then do a trace of the soure work. Compare the freehand with the trace, overlap them, note the differrences in angles, placements, proportions and the rest. A few excercises like these should see improvement very quick. If you keep at it, soon ypu won't need the trace but can compare straight from the source photo. Your eyes and hands and brain will learn what it is you want from them. But even then, it takes time and effort and study and passion! . Don't forget to try to relax and enjoy drawing, even if it's just lopsided demons from the broken cube dimension on a mission to deconstruct noses with their loomis ray guns.

>>2480241
hard to have fun when everything you draw turns out to be shit

>>2480242
Isn't there a good video alternative for all this shit? I hate reading, especially ebooks.

>>2479796
>>2479859

this anon is right

desu it may take several months of drawing from life and experimenting before you can really grasp Loomis. He gets thrown around a lot for beginners but unless you have a good grasp on manipulating 3d objects on the page you probably won't get much out of it.

>>2480245
that's why i said draw what's satisfying. practice, and when you feel like crying slightly because it's turned out shit, go drink some juice or whatever and draw something simple. draw a bunch of shitty snails, it's not like they'll show up on your hypothetical portfolio. ok maybe not snails, but what i'm saying is you shouldn't come to resent drawing just because you're a beginner
beginners shouldn't focus on getting gud, they should focus on getting a little bit gudder than they were yesterday

>>2480271

I won't feel satisfied until I can draw people though, thats what sucks. And I seemingly can't draw anything 3D right. It's fucking irritating.

>>2480280

brah, it took me like 3-4 months of drawing (admittedly not ever doing more than 2 hours a day and skipping several days) before putting 3d on the page really clicked for me. After that everything got a lot easier and my drawings looked so much better.

>>2478782

Dont worry anon
The problem is that you clearly lack of palmaris longus

>>2480141
This is a rough idea of what a real box would look like in that perspective

See, you seem to think reading a book and watching a few videos is going to instantly make you better. And you'll instantly understand how to draw. But that's not how it works. Those are only there to HELP you learn. You're still gonna have to spend the time and put in the effort practicing. You may draw heads like for months before they start getting better. You may get better quicker, who knows. But you still need to keep practicing. Reading Loomis won't instantly make you good at art.

As for drawing faces, learning the muscles under the skin as well as the skull itself will help a bit. Learn what parts stick out where. What parts sink in.

You could also take time to learn specific parts of a face, like the nose, without the rest of the face. Find pictures of noses, draw them. When you start understanding them, then you can try adding them to a face.

Also, I don't care if people were shitposting or not [They WEREN'T but whatever.] You still don't get to be an asshole and then still expect help. Now stop acting like you should instantly be amazing at art because you read a book, and go practice like the rest of us.

>>2480251
u can do it anon. on a scale of 10 it isnt exactly easy, id say as hard as learning basic middle school geometry. it will be hard and rough. if ure bad with books and maths expect it to take around 2-3 weeks before you've mastered perspective. THEN do the exercises on drawabox, then grind a bargue a day and once youre pretty good at copying what you see and come back to us in the beginner thread.

the main problem i see right now is that you can't copy well. start from copying references first, then construction, FINALLY IMAGINATION.

instead of investing all the time responding to shitpostings, u can put all those precious time in reading book, and if u don't understand a specific thing just ask in the questions thread. i know u can do it.

i generally do not recommend videos over books if ure looking for free resources. as most art videos I've seen on peers take too much time with mindless babbling. but they are useful as study supplements. if u can read the thread as quickly as i think, you'll be getting over the books faster than the videos. good luck!

>>2480341

The problem is, there is no way in hell I am going to be able to memorize every single muscle necessary. Saying "symbol drawing/loomis IS shitposting as opposed to pointing out what should actually be fucking worked on, theres nothing but pricks on this board 99% of the time.

I'm more of a visual learner, I hate using books, I prefer videos. Which is apparently looked down upon here.

I've practiced drawing the head a million times, but I cant even get passed the "establish width of chin and draw jaw" step. Forget the main features of the face. My jaws are ALWAYS fucked up. I can never mirror one side like the other.

>>2480340

thats originally what I drew but it didn't look right, and I figured it was going to be torn to shit even worse than what it was.

>>2480354

I'd rather watch videos, I don't exactly work well with books. It's much easier to get to the content/not have to sift through the babbling bullshit.

you deserve to fail

>>2480366

you deserve to develop cancer

>>2480368

your drawings are trash and you refuse to be taught

give up

>>2480185
you're killin me anon

>>2480363
>>2480361

Seriously dude? If you're going to keep making excuse for yourself you're not gonna make it. we're here to point you to the right direction, not here to baby you and spoonfeed you everything.

If you can't manage that minimal effort to motivate yourself to learn from then a damn book then you might at well stop learning how to draw. Drawing is not for the weak-minded.

>>2480361

Ok well, that's kind of your issue then. Learning to draw takes time and effort. To learn to draw an accurate face, you need to know how a face works, INCLUDING the muscles. Any of us here that's taken the time to learn to draw a person will tell you that you need to learn muscles, and bones, before you can learn details. For the face alone, you'll need to at least learn the basic muscle structure, skull structure, how the jaw bone works and moves. You'll need to take time learning the separate features too. Eyes, nose, mouth, ears.

Drawing is complicated and takes work to actually do properly. You can't expect to just WANT it and read/watch a few things, and instantly be able to do it without putting in the effort to learn what makes up the thing you want to draw.

"Practicing" isn't just about finding a picture of something and copying it. Or just drawing a head over and over. You also need to study faces, lighting, structure, muscles, bones. Study how the skin stretches over all of that. Study where the bones stick out, where the fat builds up, where things twist and curve.

As for your jaws being uneven. Just try drawing some straight lines from one side to the other to line 'em up. There's not much help I can give you there.

You also have to expect your art to be torn to shit. That's what critique is for. To tell you literally everything that's wrong with what you drew. You're not gonna get better if people sugar coat it.

>>2480372

spamming "symbol drawing" and loomis" is not pointing in the right direction

and I'm not making excuses, some people learn better differently..

>>2480381

Ummm..Actually. "Loomis" IS pointing in the right direction. If you can't be assed to take the time to learn from things clearly designed to teach you, then what exactly are you expecting US to be able to do? All we're gonna do is repeat what people like Loomis and Vilpuu have said. Those people are the people you should be learning from, not us. We're just here to tell you what you should be reading and practicing. We've already done that. Our job is done. YOUR job is to get off your high horse, and actually take the time to practice things. Learn muscles. Learn bones. Don't complain because it takes too long or that you "can't be expected to learn all the muscles". If it's too much of a problem, then perhaps drawing is not the right thing for you.

>>2480387

I am so fucking sick of being told something is not right for me. Where the fuck do I start? I'm sure there is a bunch in the books that is bullshit I can ignore. I don't need fun with a pencil. Fuck that bloke shit

>>2480397
"Where to start?" SERIOUSLY? You start with all of these "bullshit" art books you keep wanting to skip. I mean come the fuck on dude. We're TRYING to help. You're the one that doesn't want it. We're telling you what to read, what to practice, what to study. And you're telling us that you can't be assed to do it.

Learning art is essentially going to fucking school. You start with the basics, and move up from there. You can't handle that, then perhaps learn something else instead? It's not our fault you don't wanna put the effort into learning like everyone else did.

You want to ignore 99% of the stuff we're telling you. That's fine. Have fun not learning a damn thing.

>>2480399

way to completely ignore the point of my fucking post

156 replies.

wow this thread makes me cancer
i don't have any reason to stay here

>>2480400
Maybe you could make your point more clear then? Because to me it sounded like you were bitching because you can't be assed to read something clearly designed to teach you the exact thing you're trying to learn.

>>2480403

considering i've heard most of those books have a lot of bullshit you have to sift through/ignore. I want to get straight to the goddamn point on the shit I need. I'm tired of getting nowhere. I'm tired of my shit looking flat even when I draw it how other people do. I'm sick of it.

>>2480405
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

>>2480397
Fun With a Pencil is good because it has tips that you can use for anything, not just cartoon type people. Using simple shapes and lines as a foundation and then adding onto them or taking away to shape it into what you want is very helpful. Not only that it has some methods that are a bit more fluid so you don't need to know about how people often have to construct figures as they do in life drawing classes.

>>2480408

except fun with a pencil is shit and should not be recommended to anyone, not even op

>>2480405
Yeah well, believe it or not, most art books have all of this "bullshit" you want to skip. Like I said, learning to draw is like school. Starting from basics. And that's exactly how most art books try to teach. Basics first.

There's not much that gets to the point. Besides, at your current skill level you NEED the basics. You can't expect to draw really good art without knowing the basics first. Otherwise your art's gonna look all kinds of fucked up.

You're essentially saying "I want to be a master chef. But I don't wanna take the time to learn recipes or what the ingredients taste like. I just wanna be good at cooking without all of that basic bullshit."

You see how stupid that sounds? Yeah, that's about how you sound to us.

>>2480408
This to be honest family.

>>2480407

you're a fucking idiot

>>2480410

no, what i am saying is I want to sift through the babbling bullshit that ive seen multiple people say these fucking books have, is it that hard to comprehend?

>>2480413
Were they retards like you?

>>2480414

Autists like you need to shut the fuck up.

>>2480381
Wow, and I thought that you couldn't get even more spoiled than that.

And FYI I was one of the people trying to be patient and nice with you, and I've never said once that you were symbol drawing, or shoving Loomis down your throat. (But yes, I still recommend Loomis hwoever if you're learning human anatomy). Honestly, this is my last straw trying to be nice and patient with you.

Onto the misconception that "because it's not my learning style it's hard so I can't learn".---Out with it. You couldn't have managed your life this way so far like that, don't you? You need quickly to change that type of thinking because it is PATHETIC and will hinder your progress as a person and your mileage.

Let me put it in an analogy easy enough that a grade school student can understand:

Think of it this way, think of drawing as a video game.

Your LVL represents your current skill and experience.
TALENT ≈ LEARNING style is like a EXP MULTIPLIER bonus. They do exist, but they are worthless to consider if you don't defeat any monsters/success in any quests you won't get ANY exp. You can be one hell of a talented guy with a 1000x multiplier bonus, but if you skip work and never do ANYTHING, then you're bound to not

But if you don't GRIND(aka draw) you won't earn any experiences that way. Along the way you will learn multiple MOVES/SKILLS/SPELLS, and you will face multiple MONSTERS. Some monsters are defeated more easily if you apply the right skills/moves/spell. Just as how in drawing when you're tackling a different subject, think of it as a monster.

(CONTINUED NEXT POST)

>>2480413
And I'M saying that most of that babbling bullshit you're talking about, is stuff you probably should be reading at your current skill level. You seem to be missing the point. You keep wanting to skip shit that you shouldn't be skipping. All because you're too goddamn impatient.

You do realize, that even if you do manage to skip all of the stuff you want and get straight to the point, it's still gonna take months and years of hard work to get even a little bit better. Right? I honestly can't imagine you spending more than a week on this before getting fed up with how hard it is and quitting.

To leave you with an actual suggestion, since you seem so goddamn fucking impatient and too lazy to read a fucking book. Go to Youtube. Search for "How to draw" followed by what you want to learn. You won't find a ton that's actually useful for a lot since videos tend to be a lot shorter than needed. But considering your short ass attention span, it might be great for you.

OP is a master ruse man

>>2480418
But some times, some monsters can't be defeated if you don't cast the right spell. And that, is how learning a new spell(reading=MEMORIZING new concept) comes to hand.

Think of DRAWING THE HEAD as a monster, and it's a water type. In order to defeat a water type you will need to learn grass spells/moves.(equivalent of knowing the proportions/right tick marks/level/plumb lines/geometric shapes that make up for it) All in all this is called construction(the CONSTRUCTION spell FTW). But you will need to learn it from a mage called Loomis, find Loomis.

Loomis gives you his DRAWING THE HEAD AND THE HANDS book, but it's too hard for you to understand. I have gone through the book myself and can safely say that SOME things in the book can be learnt more easily visually, and you won't be needing the text. HOWEVER, the text/Loomis' tips make you learn how to apply it better(FASTER SPELL CASTING SPEED). Get it? He doesn't go through why this line has to be here and there because these are obvious if you have a decent level of reading comprehension. If you still insist that reading is too hard for you, you're just making life harder than itself when it really isn't.

As for your frustration: Why even after reading every Loomis, I still suck?

1. You have not obtained the UNDERSTANDING of "how it works".
2. You were only skimming the books, do the plate from PLATE 1 and show it for us so we can tell you where you went wrong.
3. OK FWTP is his first book and he wasn't very serious/indepth. He did it mainly for fun and entertaining others. So get his figure drawing books and the head/hands ones which are WAYYYY better. I often see Loomis pages posted here for advice and generally people love it and ask for mroe(but they don't realize that it's pages from Loomis' books, hilariously, despite them bashing him). You hate him because you haven't actually gone through them. His books' illustrations speak a lot for themselves more than his words.

(CONTINUED NEXT POST)

>>2480421
And honestly, I find it funny that you think that videos don't "waste your time". And this is coming from somebody who downloads nearly every new art videos on peers. I've stopped doing that recently once I've found out that all it does is reinterate the same shit from the art book thread. Believe me, there's a lot of videos where the guy teaching you stuff starts talking about his freaking career for a whole 20 minutes before get down to work. And some videos the guy doesn't even talk at all. You are just watching him talking for 5 minutes and then he does his speed painting without explaining you the process. And you can't freaking skip it because you don't know if you will skip important shit. But with books it's different, you have a freaking table of contents, you can skim to whatever of your liking, etc. The least time wasting video guy I can think is Proko but his stuffs are basically watered down Loomis BUT if they can give you a headstart then go for it. It did for me anyway after I was burnt by the fabulous Fun with a pencil prose.

So stop fussing about these useless multipliers aka learning style, and get right down with it!

>>2480422

Well answer me this.

How the hell do I put angled lines down correctly on paper even after measuring them/not needing to erase a million times. I tilt my pencil to match the angle of said line I am looking at on some object, and I keep it that way until I put it on paper, and it always still ends up being fucked up some way. I'm also always going to big, too small. Everything is always a mess, even when doing the pencil/thumb measuring shit.

>>2480413
Something else I'd like to mention just reeealll quick.

You know art's supposed to be..like..FUN...right? Why do you even want to learn to draw if you're not having fun with it? A lot of us get better at it because we have fun with it. We've always had fun with it. So we get a lot of our practice in just from our normal daily drawing.

You on the other hand, will probably have a LOT more work to deal with than we do. Because you clearly aren't have any fun with it. To you, it seems like anyway, art is just a job that you're forced to get better at. Thinking that way is gonna make art horrible for you. I mean, it takes us YEARS to get decent at art, and that's when we like it. I can't imagine how long it'd take someone like you, that can't seem to have any fun with it, to get better.

>>2480426

It's kinda hard to have fun when you can't draw anything you want. I am the same way with all creative shit.

>>2480425
First of all, please explain what do you mean by angled line, and what kind of drawing are you trying to do. I can guess that you're talking about doing copying. But please confirm just to be sure. And actually showing drawing helps.

As I've said earlier earlier earlier in the thread you seem to have troubles with observational copying, right?

The easiest way to train this(observational drawing accuracy/eyeballing) is to do Bargue drawing. Your issue is that you can SEE that it went wrong, but not HOW/WHERE EXACTLY it went wrong.

Learn to see where it went wrong is very important. (If you've read Keys to Drawing you would know that it is called a practical dialogue) And once you can notice the nature of your mistake you will improve drastically.

When drawing, always take a step back and try to see and compare your drawing with yoru subject. For starters, since you're having troubles with it, I would suggest you use a grid. Having a grid helps a lot since you can actually find yoru landmarks. It may be a clutch in the future but I found out for myself that it helped a lot for my observational drawing. Are you drawing without grids and landmarks?

This is some pasta level shit and you people fall for it

>>2480433
Falling for it even when you know someone is trolling is a sign of kindness.

>>2480431

im talking any line that involves depth/is at a 3/4/5/6/etc o'clock angle. I fuck that up more than I should

>>2480430
Um...no.

We all sucked at art at some point. Every single person that's good at drawing now? Yeah, they sucked horrible at one point. They were new to art once. And guess what, most of us still had enough fun with it to actually enjoy drawing. Even when we were bad. That's the entire reason a lot of us still draw. We had fun with it even when bad.

The point is to just enjoy drawing in general. You don't need to be drawing like a fucking master painter to enjoy drawing. It's just YOU. You clearly derive no enjoyment from drawing.

>>2480434

I'm not fucking trolling, kill yourself

>>2480436

I'm easily discouraged/give up easy if I can't do the shit I want to do within a short period, and I mean just getting started, not being skilled.

I want to do a ton of creative level shit. 3D modeling, drawing, painting, writing, all of that. And all that shit takes time investment, and I can't even really get started on most of the shit because I can barely cover the basics most of the time.

>>2480438
Well, that's your problem then. You give up too quickly. There is no quick method of getting good at drawing. Getting better at drawing takes a lot of time. To get decent, it'll probably take a few years at least. But even at the beginner level, it'll take months of work to grasp basics and stuff.

Drawing isn't something that you can learn in a "short period". even just the "starting level" of stuff takes ages to learn.

Nothing wrong with wanting to do creative level stuff, but if you can't manage the effort and time required to learn it, you're not gonna get very far.

>>2480435

I'm guessing from what you said that you are having difficulties with the face when it's not in frontview/sideview such as a 3/4 view.

Before drawing faces, please consider mastering perspective. Do the exercises from Scott Robertson's book How to Draw and as a supplement if you'd like the "Drawing Cars the Hot Wheel Way".

Faces are organic matter, you can not know how to put it if you haven't mastered the planes/skull yet. It is hard for you to put up the lines when it's not front/side because you are having difficulties visualizing where it should go. This is partially caused by a lack of confidence while trying to tackle a skill over your current level. Take it slow. I understand that you want to get better in a short span of time but learning things that you don't understand will result you NOT LEARNING ANYTHING because you cannot learn things that you don't understand, get it? What I'm saying is learning art is more complex such as solving logic problems, unlike memorizing a vocabulary list(but there are some stuffs that necessitate memorization but the logic part is more important for now).

>>2480438

Well that's the dream, same here. You're trying to do too much at the time, hence you are feeling overwhelmed by the options that you have and you won't feel any progress.

Set a small goal, achieve things one by one. NAIL IT DOWN TO ONE THING AT A TIME.
And overtime that feeling of accomplishment will motivate you even further to do things that you once found hard and discouraging. Finding the easy path is not the way, braving the hard path is. But once you've tasted the sweet taste of success, I hope that it will motivate you to challenge yourself more.

And for you staying in this board doesn't help because half of the time you'll get discouraged by shitposts hence you're just making your current mental status worser than it is. I would suggest you find a healthier community such as crimsondaggers/permanoobs.

>>2480446

I can't even draw the face from the front correctly..

>>2480446

the problem with those sites though is that it takes forever just to get a single reply.

>>2480446

and I tried logic/programming, and I didn't have the mind for that, so I guess Im probably wasting my time with this, too.

OP sounds like a fucking whiny baby, go off yourself.

Ok where am I legit supposed to start, with perspective? Then what? I have no idea what order to do all this shit in. It's stressing me the fuck out because I want to improve.

You think that "1 year to git gud" guide will help OP in this case? I forget the link, but I know it's been posted here several times in the past.

>>2481064

those "learn to draw in 30 days" things are always bullshit, im not looking for quick and easy, I just want to be able to fucking do it right.

>>2481065
No. The guide I'm talking about it something an anon made here, providing self study terms in lectures to download and follow (giving yourself homework and all that shit).

>>2481025
You don't have the spark.

>>2481098

you don't not have autism

ITT: /b/tard tries to draw.

>>2481025

You need to identify your weak points by being reflective, and then study what needs work.

If you start by learning to draw basic shapes (which I recommend) basic perspective goes hand in hand with that. In order to draw a good cube you need to have an idea of how vanishing points work.

What else you look into depends on your goals. It might seem overwhelming but it's something you need to learn to prioritize yourself. The sticky is your first stop, it gives you what you need to create a baseline in fundamentals.

>>2481243

So what, start with perspective then constructing the face? All I want to do is draw character concept art/maybe shit for my own comics.

>>2478782
nice bait op

>>2481250
>all I want
>maybe

Art is kind of an all-or-nothing type deal

>>2481308

I know, but I'm just....mindfucked.

You've got people saying loomis is bad for beginners, thats what beginner should start with, etc.

Whys shit gotta be so mindfucky

>>2481314
Cause it's masochism and masterbation at the same time, that's why a lot of people give up. Think about it:

>spend years drawing/painting badly everyday
>endure harsh critiques and disgustingly polite compliments and try not to let both get to you
>at the same time try to apply those critiques
>but DO NOT not let pleb adorers inflate your ego either
>put tons of time, effort, and money to be able to draw pictures pretty enough to stand on their own for whatever reason
>suffer mental anguish over and over for aesthetics
>that's all this is

It's fucking crazy. But I commend you for actually trying to get better cause most either give up or stagnant because they don't want to put in the work, hence the cringe threads and stuff. Just keep drawing, man. The mind fuckery never really ends so just keep practicing and when you finally do see the improvement you want it is so worth it. I'm no pro but not a beginner either so I know your frustration especially when you learn on your own, it fucking sucks. Watch this vid it inspired me when I seriously thought of quitting all of it, hope it helps

http://youtu.be/wCtaRkSXh0o

>>2481372
I'm still conflicted on what to do, "just draw" is vague as fuck, and you can't improve if you keep making the same shitty mistakes over and over.

I see about bargue plates, how loomis isn't for beginners, etc etc. Prokos got mistakes in his vids. So much conflicting shit that im going to lose it.

Do I do perspective/construction hand in hand? Thats seemingly what people call me out on is lack of construction/shit isn't looking 3D

>>2481380
I wish I could tell how exactly how but all I got is keep doing it until you get it right. If you can get an object and draw it from different angles it will give you some idea of what you've been doing wrong? In the one drawing class I took its pretty much all we did all semester and it helped me out a lot with drawing perspective and "thinking" in 3D- stuff like plants, glass pitchers and once in a while a person, if you can.

>>2481400

Keep doing it until I get it right? Thats a problem considering I seemingly keep doing the wrong shit repeatedly.

I can think in 3D no problem, the problem is, any time I seemingly draw something in 3D. I get ripped to shreds on here for not drawing in 3D/being flat/perspective/symbol drawing.

>>2481405
Cause you gotta train your arm to do what your brain wants it to by doing it over and over until it becomes muscle memory

>>2481418

I know that, but if you keep doing the wrong shit over and over, you're just getting better at doing what you're not supposed to, which is the complete fucking opposite of what you should be doing.

>>2480413
>babbling bullshit
The exercises are not bullshit, it's the explanation of *why* they work that is bullshit. The truth is the exercises were developed by experimenting with lots of ideas and seeing what worked. There's no scientific theory behind them. Authors like to come up with crazy explanations of why they work, but it really doesn't matter. When you do the exercises your skills reliably improve. The explanations are basically the art equivalent of "broscience" in sport. Don't worry about the explanations, just do what demonstrably works.

>>2478782
do some exercises on not drawing those features but simply copying the darkness and lightness of the face through shading you seem to be relying on lines to much.

>>2478791
Hey bro. I know many others have said this, but you are not understanding the construction. I look at your drawing and I can't see any other lines besides that outline. Keep going forward. Its frustrating. But if you practice with purpose you WILL get better. Also, I would recommend working on 3/4 head pose drawings as they will best help you to understand the 3d form of the head. Good luck senpai!

>216 replies on a bait thread
wew...

>>2482198
It's not bait, it's just some anon throwing a tantrum, and everyone's trying their best to explain what they somehow "got".

>>2478873
Then forget about everything you've done with loomis and look for something else. It's not helping you at all.

>>2479796
Keys to drawing mang, keys to fucking drawing.

>>2478782
>>2478815
>>2478791
>>2478829
>>2478837
>>2478846
>>2478866
>>2478893
>>2478904


Holy fucking Christ. What a joke.

OP if you are still here, want to know why you can't draw? You have no patience. Everyone is telling you this. You did not learn the material, you may have read it but that is not the same.

This isn't a math equation and as soon as you know the method that's it. Drawing is a skill and I can read all day long about it but if I don't practice and put the long hours in I won't get better.

I can't believe people even wanted to help you. Learn some humility, you miserable cuck

>>2480149

what >>2480183 said.

why?
Because you live in 3D space your brain has come up with ways to straighten all lines that should be straight, IE walls, quadratic elements and so on. I mean, if it didnt you would see everything curvy as fuck as your eyes are fucking BALLS. (meaning they'd curve the light different based on entry angle but whatever the cause - your brain does math subconsciously and removes all perspective for stuff that isnt really far away.
How to prove this: Put a paper in front of you. Look at it. Its fucking rectangular( if you dont look at it over the edge of the table) no matter where you look at it from
Now take your smartphone. Photograph the same fucking paper a few times from different angles. Now look at the photos: Point proven?

>2479980
Thanks for posting this, was looking for it yesterday to no avail.

So what, do perspective/construction go hand in hand?

>>2480399
You're just as retarded as OP is.

>>2481380
>I'm still conflicted on what to do, "just draw" is vague as fuck
You're a beginner with no idea what you're doing. "Improvement" shouldn't be your top priority, your top priority should be; "what the fuck am I even doing?" It'd be like playing a sport for the first time and trying to mimic a pro because you want to be as good, stylish and awesome as them. If you're serious about a sport, you're not going to do that, you're going to disregard everything for a minute, including rules, in order to get a feel for how it all even works. In other words, a complete beginner should just be trying to draw things they like in order to get a feel for it. What you're trying to learn right now is how the drawing process even works. Fuck construction for a second, okay?

When people say "just draw", they're telling you that you need experience with what you're doing in order to even understand the advice you're being given. Loomis is great for beginners, but I think the thing not being considered here is, is the degree of beginner. Most people who are "beginners" have been drawing on and off for awhile, they just never did it seriously, and Loomis is the thing that whips them into shape. If you have zero experience with drawing, like at all, you need to try drawing more before you'd even understand what you're doing or what people are trying to tell you, Loomis included.

Even with the box, I told you to draw it from multiple angles, as in, more than once, as in you should have likely filled out pages and pages of this box from various rotations and different angles, and I come back to this thread and you didn't even bother with that. You left it on your shelf, drew one image of it and made up half the box from imagination instead of really taking into consideration what you were doing. You thought "I can draw a box" and that was that. If you want to "improve", take some time to understand what you're doing first.

>>2482475

I've been attempting to draw heads on and off forever. Shouldn't that count?

Head and Hands is what I should be starting with, loomis wise, is it not?

I glanced over the index of the perspective book, theres like 20 different perspective things.

I've got plenty of other boxy shit I can get to easier/rotate. Bottom line is I'm not getting anywhere right now like this. And it seems as if I have massive trouble doing even the ball and plane loomis method, because my circles, no matter how much i do the drawabox/etc shit, are always lopsided. And they get even worse when I chop off the sides, for the front view.

Should I be focusing mainly on the "plates" as they call them, what about that bargue stuff I keep hearing about.

>>2482491
If heads and hands are too hard, you're supposed to do basic 3D shapes first. Planes are the next step up from basic 3D shapes. But there's a reason in art classes you're told to render out cubes, spheres and cones, no matter how simplistic and stupid it seems. How much time and effort have you put into learning basic 3D shapes? Because when I say "pages and pages" I quite mean that. It's not something you do once, it's something you drill into yourself. Don't just do line art, try to light them as well, you have to understand how the process of a 3D object works if you want to put it into practice.

Many beginners here, on /ic/, even draw pages and pages and pages of circles just to have better control of their lines and curves. You require a vast quantity of attempts before you even start to understand what you're doing.

So, how much have you practiced basic 3D shapes?

>>2482495

I haven't bothered with shading/rendering yet because I was torn apart by people saying it can look 3D without shading, which mine didn't.

>>2482498
It can look 3D without it, but you're a beginner, don't skimp out on trying to absorb as much as you can for the time being. Especially in regards to basic 3D shapes, such as spheres, which will automatically look 2D if you fail to light them.

You know, if you open up any perspective book, any one at all, you'll find the line "if you can draw a box you can draw anything." You know why? Because if you can draw a box, it means all you have to do is take away or add more or less boxes and you can construct things in 3D very easily. This is a very simple foundation. I know it's very easy to look down on basic 3D shapes, but if you're serious about improving, please don't. Take a week at the minimum on just focusing on 3D shapes before you try more advanced planes, such as heads. Seriously grind it out, for several hours, per day. You'll hate shapes at some point, I'm sure, but I believe this is necessary. The box makes up the majority of construction.

>>2482506

So just do 3D shit along with the perspective book then move onto trying heads?

>>2482520
Something like that. Heads are very hard though, so you should be warned about that. You don't want to start with real heads, but heads that are divided into simple planes first, hence why Loomis method is liked. You want to extrapolate on the knowledge of the box and shapes and make some very basic shape-like heads when you do them, don't try to make real heads until you're very comfortable with construction -- again this should take you a long time and many pages of drawing before you move out of the face that's divided into planes.

Perspective, I don't expect you to fully understand at this point, but you can dabble in it a little since it'll help with boxes. Keep in mind that you'll likely have to come back to perspective later after you understand things better. So don't expect perspective to click right away, though it would be amazing if it did. But if it doesn't, don't get frustrated. For now you just need to understand that all your boxes are going back to vanishing points.

>>2482525

I glanced over the content of the perspective book, theres uphill, downhill, etc perspective, I figure I'll stick with the basic 1/2/circular perspective shit first, then worry about all the other shit when I need it.

Trust me, I know heads are difficult as all shit.

Even when I try drawing the eyes, I get called "symbol drawing". It's hard to tell if it's just the shitposters or if I am forgetting something.

I have no problem doing the plane method, as long as it gets me to where I can put the features and shit where they need to be, so it doesnt turn into a disfigured mess.

>>2482528
Yeah, focus on just understanding how the horizon and vanishing point works. Come back to the other stuff when you get more comfortable with what's going on.

The only way to get out of "symbol drawing" territory is to make your objects 3D. Eyes, as an example, should actually be spheres. You should imagine them as spheres, and eyelids should curve over the spheres like if you were to put a sheet over top of a sphere, it would curve around it and show a shape that defines it as a sphere. Of course, you have to be comfortable with spheres first to make this work. To avoid what people call "symbol drawing", you just need to use a 3D shape as a replacement. That's all it is.

>>2478782
>I've done loomis
My stomach is ill because I'm laughing very very biggest.

>>2482539

thats what i try to do with the eyes, i curve the lids around the balls. And yet people still say thats not what im doing, thats why i get pissed off.

>>2482540
Green lips remind me of Araki. Can sb photobash this on some Jojo footage?

>>2482546
When you study spheres, I suggest doing some with lighting and some where you just make a grid over top of it, to figure out the shape better. This is honestly fixable if you just study 3D shapes.

Also, eyelids should have thickness and depth. Instead of doing whole faces, break them up into parts and study their individual shapes, one by one, so you can really get into the details. Not now of course, basic 3D shapes should take top priority. This problem will vanish once you get a handle on shapes.

>>2482528
Before worrying about features I would suggest you get the head right at first.(also, im the other anon who has been offering you advice not the one you just responded to)

Mastering Loomis's standard head and knowing where to put the features(tick marks, proportions), THEN you should look over features.

For features, I would suggest Proko much more than Loomis since he goes into a nice rundown of the anatomy and he does the step by step so it's easier to follow. Also, I would recommend Bargue because the first planes trains you at accuracy copying AND drawing features at different angles. Which will be useful once youve mastered head construction first.

You've been getting the symbol draw meme from shitposters who dont know how to offer you advice. But you are partially responsible as you didn't post the original reference of what you drew. Next time, post the references next to your drawing.

To know if you're symbol drawing or not, we WILL need to see the original picture.

But yes the other anon is right, you have a problem with perspective which might impact your understanding of the head. Heads are hard, so they should not be your first step into drawing. As I've recommended on the other thread before, the How to Draw book has a lot of exercises that teach you how to fix stuffs in a box (well, once you've mastered the box anyway).

>>2478891
Deep anon, deep.

>>2482551
I got you anon.

>>2479032
Getting better is an extremely slow crawl.

It takes fucking years of round the clock work to get to a semi-competent level

>>2482570
thanks a lot for making me laugh genuinely, anon!!

Slightly related but would I be better off drawing with my pad at an angle as opposed to having it flat on a table? It seems like I get better results slightly if its tilted but its also a pain in the ass keeping it like that.

>>2482570
Holy shit

>>2479988
ahh good times

>>2480045
this anon lacks the ligameme

>>2482560

I am assuming his "Head and Hands" book? (Im not OP) My construction is also very bad.

So I've worked a bit with loomis/some videos, and I think this looks a lot better (just some random head atm, no reference).

I need to sit up straighter/position my pad a diff way cuz my horizontal/straight lines keep coming out crooked. Which is apparently in this picture.

>>2482937

It's also a pain trying to get it to be a front view with everything looking cockeyed to the side slightly. And trying to fix it makes it worse.

Any advice when it comes to mirroring lines that are diagonal? I seemingly have a lot of issues doing that.

>>2483067
Just make sure it's got the same angle with the implied vertical or horizontal line you're mirroring across.

>>2483069

The last image I posted is at least a step in the right direction, yes? Compared to the atrocity in the op

>>2482937
>>2482939
>>2483085


m8 stop posting sketches and just fucking draw. Nobody can tell you anything useful from one random sketch, especially when you are as obviously shit and just copying Loomis' lines. No offense, but take this entitled millenial shit elsewhere, lurk more, and come back when you have something worth posting.

>>2483096
entitled millennial shit? kill yourself

>>2483098
Hes sort of right, don't just post some shit i could doddle in a notebook in 2 minutes. Just wait until you're confident enough to post something finished, then we go from there.

>>2483101

Well I gotta fuckin start somewhere. I don't know what's considered "finished" enough to be worth posting. Do I work on perfecting the basic planes of the head before bothering with features.

Right now I'm just trying to draw a straight on view without it looking cockeyed at all, I havent even tried side/3-4 view yet.

>>2483106
Master straight and side first, do perfect copies.

Then do the more difficult angles.

>>2483106
Finished is literally what it sounds like, cleaned up and the construction lines/chicken scratch is cleaned up and minor details added.

Obviously your pic isn't finished, it's a work in progress.

We don't fucking critique mid progress sketches. Finish your shit, THEN we'll critique.

>>2482584
imo at an angle.

>>2483115
at that distance perspective is irrelevant tho. You can easily sit up straight and look at your paper at an angle without worrying , your brain will correct perspective at that distance.

>>2483115
Eh, this is subjective.
A lot of people have their references as to how they want to draw. A lot of great artists draw on flat surfaces with a straight back.

>>2478829
Dw guys this was his reference

>>2478782
just copy already made drawings, lines everything, over to your painting, now use the learned skill to draw better from reference photo, congratz i just made you fucking draw better.

>>2483115
Speaking of posture. Is it okay to tilt you neck a little while drawing?

>>2484429
Buy an easel/drafting table if you are that worried about your posture. Problem solved, voilà. Drawing vertically eliminates a lot of bad habit.

Sitting for a long period of time is never good, always do some stretches. Do some neck stretches.

Or if you're a poorfag like I am just tape the paper on a glossy surface next to your references. Problem solved. Awesome for Bargue and doing studies from references. Sight size genius.

>>2483736

>>2478991
Okay then, show us a drawing of a non-person

>>2484429
Take it from someone who goes to a chiropractor weekly this month. The day after I spent a few hours drawing flat on a table, he said my back/shoulders were too tight.

Buy an easel

>>2478782
Too focused on lines and not shapes and shades.