/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>2266180
>(which comes out to less than $5 per day.)
You're assuming people are going to be working fulltime on only his stuff for the duration of the 2-3 week deadline. Realistically they might spend at most a couple days on a piece.

But yeah that's still a completely garbage rate, and I am suspicious of his claims that he is getting so many bites on his offer. If he is, then the majority are likely beginner artists who aren't very skilled yet (and who shouldn't be looking for work in the first place).

>>2266188

>You're assuming people are going to be working fulltime on only his stuff

It sounds like he wants some fairly complex paintings (like multiple lesbian demons having sex with each other, from one of his examples), and that he wants a lot of back-and-forth feedback and revision, too.

So, if you took this job and worked 2 hours a day for 2 weeks and he paid you his maximum rate of $80, you'd make $1.40 per hour.

>I am suspicious of his claims that he is getting so many bites on his offer

If you look at his Tumblr, he's already hired Sam Carr and this guy - http://www.hentai-foundry.com/user/UlrikBadAss/profile

Not the best artists in the world, but certainly not so bad that they should be earning less than $1.50/hour. Apparently, though, they can't get higher paying work than this.

>>2266180
Can only really blame the artists that take jobs like these. Anyone that would work for such low prices are just stupid.

>>2266203
There's no way Sam is accepting 80$ per card unless he has some deal where he can do speedpaintings and hand in like a 3 hour sketch with no revisions.

He's by no means a top level artist, but he's worked on a variety of projects for several years now and I would be very very surprised if he accepted anything under a few hundred bucks per painting.

It's possible that this guy is paying someone like Sam more than the other artists in order to try to bring in a bit of "prestige" with a few higher quality pieces, which also might encourage the other artists to work a bit harder too.

Wait how can you even live on that money?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWXYoD7wfOs

>>2266213
You can't unless you live in some 3rd world country where COL is essentially 0.

>>2266180

Digital art is worthless garbage, no matter how good and skillfull it looks. That's the sad truth. I learned it the hard way myself.

You can only artifically inflate the value of your work by self promoting the crap out of it. If you don't do that, your work has no value.

It also has value if you were really freaking good 10 years ago, and reserved one of the prime seats of popularity and influence early on, pre-saturation of the market. Now it's too late, no matter how good you are, your work is absolutely utterly worthless.

It sucks bc I threw away everything in my life in order to be able to make a living painting awesome shit. But I'll adapt, and move on.

All the guys telling you how great things are and how much they are making are only saying that because it's part of the self-promotion game. They are lying right in your face like a politician, in hopes of potential clients being attracted by their facade of success. That is the unspoken, dirty secret of this 'industry'.

>>2266212
>It's possible that this guy is paying someone like Sam more than the other artists in order to try to bring in a bit of "prestige" with a few higher quality pieces

That's what I thought, too, but if you look at the job post, he specifically says that you're not even allowed to contact him unless you're as good as SamC because he'll just reject your application if you're not.

>>2266226
so the secret to success as an artist is intense shilling and self-promotion? fuck. well you gotta do what you gotta do i suppose.

>>2266231

Yes but you'll still have to do the work... the art. You'll quickly realize that shilling and self promoting ANYTHING else will be 10 times more lucrative. literally anything else.

That's when you'll start scratching your head and wonder 'holy fucking shit why did nobody tell me this? i thought it was actually possible to make a reasonable living doing this shit. looks like my parents were right... even if i love art over everything else in life it makes no sense to pursue it professionally'

it's fucking sad but that's the way it is.

>>2266180
>I've been noticing that every client who contacts me wants to pay $5-$10 per hour max, and if I ask for anything more, I never hear from them again. Is it because everybody in this field is so desperate for work that they accept literal sweat-shop wages?

Why would you ever tell a client what your hourly rate is? Just say how much you estimate the price of the piece to be based on how many hours you assume it will take you multiplied by how much you think it's reasonable to charge per hour. Then let them assume the price is high because it will take you 9000+ hours in ms paint to complete, shit it out in a day or two, and do other freelance until the deadline rolls around. Seems like a no brainer to me.

>>2266226
>Digital art is worthless garbage, no matter how good and skillfull it looks.
Sort of, but look at random porn artists on tumblr raking in money.

There's better options for working in concept/storyboarding/illustration, right?

...right?

>>2266226
Post your work.

>>2266219
Nigga, I live in a borderline 3rd world country, and I don't even bother entertaining the notion of working for those rates.

The beauty of the 3rd world is that I don't have to bust my ass working to not starve, one decent job, hell one good commission means I'm set for the month. I guarantee these are not 4rd worlders underpricing, this is all on you guys.

This is just goold old stupidity and falling prey to merchants.

The amount of total bullshit info in this thread is amazing. 14 y/o's pretending to be ex-working artists, trying to get beginners to quit.

>>2266248
>Why would you ever tell a client what your hourly rate is? Just say how much you estimate the price of the piece to be based on how many hours you assume it will take you multiplied by how much you think it's reasonable to charge per hour.

That's what I generally do, though. The client describes what they want, and I estimate in my head that it will take 30 hours, but I cut that down to 20 because I'm afraid of scaring them off like so many previous clients before them. I want to ask for $500 ($25/hour), because that's what I was earning when I was working in game dev on salary and had benefits, but I ask for $400 instead, to try to avoid scaring them off. They counter with an offer of $100 ($5/hour). I say I can't do it for less than $240 ($12/hour, at least it's better than flipping burgers I tell myself). They tell me they'll think about it and get back to me, and I never hear from them again, because they obviously found some thirsty bastard in Estonia to do it for cheaper.

This happens all the fucking time. And that's when I can even get anyone interested in hiring me. Happens less and less these days for some reason. I used to get 4-5 offers a week, now I see a couple a month tops. It's just impossible to make a living at this unless you're lucky enough to beat the competition for an in-house gig, as far as I can tell.

>>2266261

I promise this isn't a conspiracy to eliminate future competition from the rising stars of this shitty loomis-copying board.

Follow the links in the OP if you don't believe me

Little update: the extent of Sams involvement in the project leads me to believe that it's actually HIS project. He is doing the hiring and developing, and using his art as a little bit of a promo-kickstarter. if you ask the guy on tumblr about it he will tell you about how sam is special and he paid him big bucks because he is so great (i haven't done this, but i predict that this is what will happen). This is Sams IP and attempt to setup a patreon. naturally he knows about how shit the market is and tries to capitalize on that by getting cheap art from it.

>>2266254

It's all equally worthless. You aren't getting in unless you know someone. IF you want to storyboard work at an ad agency as ANYTHING for a year or two, shake lots of hands and leave lots of business cards. Then go freelance and stay in touch with that ad agency and inform everyone you met during those years of your transition. Also be extremely good. That can be a good transition and advertising does pay well.

concept and illustration is over. There is no bounty there. You might be able to get by on absolute garbage salary working your ass off if you do a combination of ui art / textures / whatever / 2d art for casual/mobile games while doing work that caters very specifically to their visual style. Good luck having fun with that, it's definitely not for me.

>>2266258
Wouldn't want to depress everyone with the fact that I am actually quite decent. But I never have posted my work on here and I never will.

>>2266261
You'll see anon.

>this is what he's paying for
>op is literally talking about a merchant looking to cash in on patreon porn bux
Of course it'll be cheap, you dumb cunts, actual smut artists work with better conditions. CA always was, and always will be, filled with this kind of shit. The only reason this caught someone's eye is that one artist who is not a complete nobody apparently decided to work on it for unknown reasons. Maybe he just felt like drawing shemales and jumped at the excuse, who cares?

>>2266274
See what? I've already seen you're full of shit. The amount of hyperbole going on is astounding. Maybe people would believe you if everything you said wasn't so vague.

For starters you're looking at a single private commission job and using it to show the industry of illo and concept is over....Then people are judging the market based off who contacts them.....the majority of working people contact others to get their jobs. Only once you're known will a steady stream of people come after you, and even then you still need to be making connections and cold calling (email) companies. u doin it wrong morons.

Everything you've said up to now is so uninformed I'm laughing my ass off reading it. Thanks for the great time anon.

>>2266291
>For starters you're looking at a single private commission job

scroll through the rest of the job offers on CA. It's overwhelmingly "Unpaid Opportunities", and the shit that does pay is like this job in the OP - utter shit that nobody could support themselves on.

>Everything you've said up to now is so uninformed I'm laughing my ass off reading it.

Not him, but what's YOUR experience like? Have you ever even supported yourself doing art? Or are you just some dumb /ic/ kid with work that looks like what's in the drawthreads here who's pretending to know what he's talking about?

>>2266274
>Little update: the extent of Sams involvement in the project leads me to believe that it's actually HIS project.
I was just thinking how the ad reads like it's written by someone who is either very informed or an artist himself, I don't usually see jobs written with that much understanding of the process and art jargon, though I'm not that active.
It doesn't sound very far-fetched to me.

>>2266291
>single private commission
This isn't a private commission.

And when I thought I found out what I wanted to do with my life there is this thread.

Fuck me.

>>2266314
>abloo bloo
suck it up, faggot
you don't draw pretty pictures to be rich

>>2266299
>rest of the job offers on CA
Are you retarded? Do you even know what it is that you're looking at? Wtf do you think the CA job section is? It's always been shit underpaying private commission work for 10+ years. Especially now that there are so many other places to find people

I do live off my art, and yeah it's fucken work. You have to have decent shit and then go shop it around to companies. Make contacts through previous work, start low with shit paying jobs (for real companies) if you work isn't great and move up as you improve and attract better work. Go to cons, meet people, meet other artists. Sitting online waiting for people to contact you or browsing CA's job page isn't going to do shit, that's why you all don't have shit and think Illustration and Concept work is shit. You shop around mediocre art, no one bites and you think you worked hard enough to be handed the world. You get zero results after putting in %50 of the work and then give up. So many entitled little bitches on here.

>This isn't a private commission.
Uh, yes it is. It's a guy making something, not a big company. It's a private commission.
.

>>2266320
But I dont want to be rich, I just want to sustain myself. From what you guys are saying there is no way to get things going unless you're A M A Z I N G and know lots of people. In my fairy tale world I wanted to get good enough to dismiss the social circlejerking it requires. Now I dont even know.

>>2266321
It's a commission for a commercial or public product, there's nothing private about it.

>>2266314

You have no idea how lucky you are to learn how this field actually is before you throw your life away trying to break into it.

Jesus Christ I wish I'd gone into programming or something. And I've had good art jobs and made decent money at times. But it's just too much stress to stay afloat doing art. I fell hard for that crap about following your dreams. Now all I want is a stable 9-5 so I can relax and not worry about money once in a while.

>>2266321

>he isn't going to post his work

ok bro, whatever you say

>>2266320
Most people don't do any job in life that makes them rich. Get real, most people make modest incomes which is normal for most working decent artists in the publishing, ad, entertainment or games industries or many other ways to sell art.

>>2266308
Also moron, no real company goes to CA to look for people. They get enough submissions by artists that they have plenty to pick from. AD's are busy and don't spend their days scouring the net looking for talent to hire (certainly not CA), the talent comes to them.

If that's how you think people get hired you're sadly mistaken.

>>2266327
What if I'm shit at everything else? I may still be 22 but If I give up on art as a profession I'm back at square one AGAIN.

>>2266324
>le anime crying girl
I bet you need your mom to buy you tools, too
stop whining and get to work or go fuck yourself

>>2266333
I am. But am I wrong for being worried about my fucking future?

>>2266274
>Wouldn't want to depress everyone with the fact that I am actually quite decent.

How about you post your work fam

>>2266331
commission =/= private commission

>An order for something, especially a work of art, to be produced specially
>A work produced in response to a commission

A private commission is above for private use (ie not shared publicly), which is why it costs more, since nobody will ever see it, and unlike shit that never gets used by companies, no AD is aware it exists

>>2266326

It is one guy who has nothing and his only plan is to get a patreon.

The only difference is this guy is offering money for it. Most other guys say can you do this art and I will pay you when we get the game kickstarted.

>>2266327

Programming is worst than art. I quit a job where I was doing sysadmin work and PHP programming.

It had nightmare working hours, I had to do 2 hours overtime everyday, if it near Christmas I had to do 4 hours overtime everyday. If anything went wrong, I would have to work about 80 hours a week.

This was all unpaid overtime.

Trust me. IT is a lot like art only the top 1% get a shit ton of money.

>>2266345

software dev's get treated like royalty where i live.

>>2266332

If I was 22 again I'd probably go join the air force or something. Try to get skills in something that won't be replaced by robots in 10 years. I don't even know anymore. I'm probably just going to blow my brains out tbh.

>>2266345

Well, I guess it's good to know that there was never any hope of a cozy IT job, either.

>>2266331
>>2266332
Are you going to lay on your death bed wishing you hadn't become an artist?
If you're finding it that tough, there are art jobs that aren't as competitive and taxing as illustration.

>>2266336
Where do you live? You probably won't starve to death, but an ascetic life isn't too bad.

>>2266353
>If I was 22 again I'd probably go join the air force or something.
>Try to get skills in something that won't be replaced by robots in 10 years.
lelwat

>>2266356
He said concept is a no go as it is right now. Where else am I more likely to fit in?

Thanks for the reply.

>>2266180

>mfw when I get paid $40 to do a single lewd chibi figure

>>2266353
>Try to get skills in something that won't be replaced by robots in 10 years

no such skills exist. art might be worth holding on to for that reason alone. you'll just have to drop the delusions of being able to make a living drawing stuff you enjoy. cater to where the money goes, or try very hard to get a studio gig.

>>2266274
So what related fields do you advise looking into?

>>2266353

Drones will replace most air force pilots soon.

On the cozy IT job. You can probably get a cozy IT job, but it is rare.

Software development isn't cozy. You need to constantly learn new technology and things change quickly.

At least in art the fundamentals don't change. Your not going to wake up in year and a new colour is discovered and people are demanding you have 5 years experience in the new colour.

>>2266339
Not sure what your point is. Who cares about pin point definition? The scenario is all the same.

It's a individual commissioning the work from an artists, regardless of it being released or not. He's not a multimillionaire dollar business thus he pays less. That's all that really matters. The adults are having a conversation over here so just go read your dictionary in the comer like a nice NEET. We'll whistle when we need you.

Jobs on CA are low paying, always have been and are in no way reflective of the market. If someone is too dumb or uninformed to know this there is NO fucken way they were a working Illustrator or Concept guy. They're just someone who took private commissions for a living, which is possible but I can imagine it's shaky.

I keep seeing the same responses on IC all the time. "I wasted my life on art" "I should have done programming." "Robots are coming" Seriously it must be one asshole.

>>2266180
>$40 for a piece like that
>And people are taking it
Man what the hell? Even I get commissions for more than that, for what I'm sure is way less work.

>>2266370
Just wait until cyber optics become a thing.

>>2266372
The point is that this is not a private commission, it's a commission, and you keep forcing this bullshit to try and validate your claims. I'm not arguing your point, I'm calling you out on your supposed work experience because you do not even understand the basic fucking terminology.

Is there more of OP's? I need to masturbate more

I've gotten good enough to get responses from established companies and I quote minimum wage rates and hours much lower than the job would actually take, and I never get responses. This industry seems to be a bit of a bubble with lots of people like myself that got serious a few years ago and went off information that is now bullshit. I don't want to dissuade anyone from doing art though because as long as you get into this without any intention of getting a job and making money you can't lose. My only advice is don't trust the word of anyone that sells anything or has an image because you might end up bitter like a lot of people here.

Illustrator here, everything that other anon said above is false.

concept artist here, everything the illustrator claims merely a ruse

theres literally no way sam carr accepts 80$ per artwork lmao
hes really fuckin skilled and already worked for some nice gigs

>>2266378
Private commission, commission....Who cares? Are you the fucken art word police? You don't even work in art and you're the arbiter or whats real and whats not? Full of yourself much anon? lol.

Whats the point of you even posting in this thread if you can't understand or grasp the simple concept that this guy and 99% of the jobs on CA are offered by private individuals working from their basements and not multi-million dollar business.

>>2266380
>General statement devoid of any information needed to prove it's actually true.
Show work, name of company, dollar amount.

>>2266369

UX design. i honestly don't know. i don't see much of a future for any of my ambitions.

>>2266389
>You don't even work in art and you're the arbiter or whats real and whats not
>Show work, name of company, dollar amount.
>t. some anonymous faggot on 4chan
You cannot be this stupid.

>>2266382
>>2266389
>mfw I tried making the situation seem as positive as possible and I still get shit on for being too bitter

I guess it's just something you gotta experience first hand to really understand.

>>2266391
It seems like every job is a dead end from your perspective tbh.

Seriously if you say you're good, or a professional or w/e and don't post work you're a liar, period.

>>2266274
>But I never have posted my work on here and I never will.
Why not? We won't get depressed. Just wanna see how good you are.

I don't know if it's just because none of you have worked in the games industry, or if it's just the countries/states/whatever you're in - but art jobs there can be quite lucrative. Especially once you're into the higher "tiers" e.g. art director, lead designer, blah blah blah. Even junior/senior artists get a comfortable wage in the UK

>>2266274

I'm sorry but this is complete trash. You sound like some depressed fuck. You are doomsaying like crazy.

Of course concept art isn't for freelance you retard, the point of concept art is to provide CONCEPTS to other teams in a department so they can advance the art of the product.

Plenty of people looking for technically skilled artists whether it's game design, TV or movie industry. It's not just about technical skill, but also fitting in with the style of the company you are applying to, and naturally secondary qualities.

Same goes for freelancing. Show you are great technically, and that your style is attractive to your employer. If you want to apply for freelance work at Games Workshop to work on their Warhammer shit, then know how to actually paint good Warhammer art.

Same goes for trading card games and the like. Not only that, but there's various venues now like Patreon and the classic commissions out there.

I simply do not believe the doomsaying crap people tend to spew on here from time to time. I'd much rather take my chances in the art industry where my portfolio is king than an industry where my prowess is decided by how much proverbial cock I can suck.

>>2266442
yeah dont even bother replying to this guy

>>2266441
that armor is making me angry, tbh

>>2266444

damn those dub dub trips, can't deny that is based even if you're a faggot

>>2266442
Why is that guy telling Glenn to fuck off? does he even want to git gud?

Is it the norm around here that people start out in freelance then expect to get good money right away?

>>2266465
No, the norm is people talk about freelance all the time and never actually get around to doing it.

>>2266442

not the guy you're replying to, but you sound exactly like me 10 years ago. I wish I'd listened to the 'doomsayers' then who told me not to try to break into art.

>I'd much rather take my chances in the art industry where my portfolio is king than an industry where my prowess is decided by how much proverbial cock I can suck.

this is funny. trust me, you will suck cock as an artist at least as much as you would in any other job. you will work loooong hours for shit wages (or unpaid overtime 12-16 hour crunches 7 days a week for months on end if you're in game dev). You will paint shit you hate and that is utterly boring and vapid to you, and you will do it to precisely the specifications of the clueless morons who hired you for a shitty wage that they act like they're doing you a favor by paying you. You will deal with retarded clients who demand the world and truly believe that your skills are almost worthless and easily replaceable (and they'll be right, tbh).

A good portfolio doesn't mean much when there are 10,000 other artists with equally good portfolios in shitty countries where the cost of living is virtually nil undercutting you.

>>2266442
the average d/ick/ does nothing but paint copies of movie stills and copy figure drawing photos from pixelovely. Of course they aren't going to get work. As long as you didn't dump 40k into an art degree, there's nothing wrong with taking a gamble on freelancing and going back to school for a good degree if it doesn't work out as long as your parents support you.

It's amazing how much people on an art board try to deter people from making art.

Why has no one posted their pro-level art?

>>2266471
If you pigeonholed yourself into taking shit jobs that's entirely your fault.

>>2266441
Some weird anatomy going on under that armor.

>>2266481

same just world fallacy that these threads always eventually come to. tbh, I don't usually bother to warn people about what working as an artist is like anymore, because everyone thinks they're going to be the next Jaime Jones and make a living painting space marines. you'll see what it's like yourself if you ever make it as far as I did (assuming you do, which is statistically very unlikely).

>>2266503
I already work in the industry but I'm in 3D. I work 45 hours a week roughly and make enough for me to be happy. Thanks for the assumption though.

>>2266503
and when we ask for your work you wont show it

>you should just be thankful for my doomsaying and not ask for proof!

that could go in any field of life couldnt it?

>>2266509

so you work in a completely different field and you're in here arguing about illustration/concept art?

great. you're a dumbass. none of your experiences are relevant.

>>2266515
He thought he would make a living painting space marines and got mad when he has to work for shit pay(if he's even working in the industry). He stuck himself in a hole and is blaming the industry for his mistake.

>>2266509
Yeah, I work in the industry too, but I'm a programmer, he's so full of shit, amirite?

>>2266526
No I was intelligent enough to use my 2D skills and transfer them into a field that is profitable. If you honest to god went into concept art with no back up plan, you're incredibly stupid.

>>2266534
Do you understand you just said art is not profitable after arguing not earning money with art is strictly the artist's fault?

>>2266530
>comparing programming to using stuff like Zbrush
If you don't think that 2D knowledge helps in 3D then you have no idea what you're talking about. Also part of my job is drawing up props for environments, showing them to my boss then making them in 3D software.

>>2266547
A large part of my job is drawing so yes it is profitable. It is entirely the artist's fault if you don't learn how to use your drawing abilities efficiently.

>>2266422

yep.

>>2266283
>That really obvious Riley Reed blowjob trace.
kek

>>2266547
What? 3D art is still art. Heck, there's a lot of jobs out there not involving concept art but still art.

Seriosuly, people here get into art clouded by the rockstar lifestyle of well-known concept artists. In this case, it's not really about wealth or popularity as in other jobs but the tempting thought of drawing dragons and space marines for a living for the rest of your life.

>>2266550
>>2266555
Those are two different jobs and 2 different activities, you imbecile. Zbrush is not drawing. No, it doesn't matter if you doodle as part of your process.
>durr but I write while performing my job as an accountant, therefore, I am a writer
>if you don't think knowing how to write helps in accounting you have no idea what you're talking about

>>2266565
>What? 3D art is still art.
So is singing, acting, architecture, etc. what's your point?

Music is discussed on /mu/, 3d on /3/.
We're talking about illustration, painting and other 2d art, and if you don't understand that, you are too retarded to be involved.

>>2266567
>Zbrush isn't drawing
Never said it was m8. It's much closer to drawing than programming though. The better you are at drawing, the better you will be at Zbrush and almost every character artist has transitioned to using Zbrush to some extent. You probably have 0 idea what the industry is like and assume every company works like some AAA monster.

I spend roughly 75% of my time in 3D and the other 25% of my time in 2D.

>>2266567
Not that guy, but you're just flat out wrong. Everyone knows that the more you can do, the more marketable you'll be. I personally know someone who works for Riot, who knows how to sculpt, rig, set up lighting, animate, all shorts of 3D shit, and he's had to use every bit of it in building up his career, even though his job currently is just illustration. But having experience with all those things not only gives him more job options, it also gives him insight on how to design things in such a way that they can function throughout the rest of the development pipeline and translated to 3D with little to nothing lost. You can't just move the goalposts by saying if you don't live off illustration and only illustration then you've failed as an artist, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing more to supplement it.

>>2266300

Agreed. Most guys suck incredibly hard at writing these ads. And he does seem to promote his shit quite heavily.

Lol I think you guys are onto something. This is a great way to kill two birds with one stone:

self promote with 'ok it was a job' tasteful tits
put out a personal project for $$$ tapping into peoples sexual-consumer sides
patreon dosh / exposure / etc

and all of this without the stigma of 'oh he is self promoting with tits and smut'.

>>2266585
You forgot to mention that knowing 3D alleviates a lot of the "stupid hours" that these people are saying that Concept Artists work. If you spend 3 hours plotting perspective when you could have done that in SketchUp or some other program in 10 minutes, that's entirely your problem. The faster you are, the easier your life will be if you do make in Concept Art.

>>2266577
The point is that it's easier to get an art job if you don't confine yourself to that one dream job. We're not even talking about 3D, just using it as an example of where you can branch off using the same drawing skills as foundation.

People here whine like art is a dead end field just because they won't be able to draw fantasy and sci-fi for a living.

>>2266590
Exactly, I don't know the exact number of new characters he's been busting out for them each time he works, but he has plenty enough time to go to cons and movies and sketch every week with us, money in his pocket, and a job he loves. I've watched him just draw and he can do a pretty polished thing in just one hour, something really nice in a few more. The only time he pulls all-nighters is when he feels in a groove, or he was swamped, but that's not often. Like I said though, he's been through his share of bs overtime shifts but he worked his way out of that, so I can't believe for a second that it's not "legitimate" just because he didn't do it all with purely drawing.

>>2266598

I can go get a graphic design job right now if I want to.

But you know what? FUCK THAT IT'S SHIT FUCK THAT IT'S SHIT SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

>>2266208
or getting really hungry

>>2266606
>ywn be Makoto Shinkai who started out in graphic design then went on to animation.

How much a piece form these guys would cost me? I can't find the professional rates

http://www.alexkonstad.com/
http://conceptartworld.com/?p=30972

>>2266620
Just send him an email and ask.

>>2266327
>Jesus Christ I wish I'd gone into programming or something
Overbait.

>>2266620
I actually know a guy who hired Alex. He's an architect and he wanted to really sell his idea for a rebuilt quay region to the city, so he hired him to make make the shitty concept book these projects often have. They didn't buy it. Anyway, it was a pretty big project, with many two page illustrations that needed to be really high-res because they needed to be printed on a pretty big format. IIRC, the entire thing (around a dozen illustrations or so) cost him exactly tree fiddy.

Anyone taking this job is an enemy of not only every other commercial artist but themselves as well. If you're that desperate for $80 "tops" go get a retail job or something. This greasy piece of shit needs to go get a loan from the bank and come back with a real offer if he doesn't have enough money. Have a little decorum and self-respect. If you're capable of good work then act like it. If these people were capable of doing this shit at even the lowest level then they'd do it. They're not, remember that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PiqC-vfYLw

>>2266620

$500 a piece if we're being fair

>Sam C gets payed a lot to do art because he's good
>His art is used as bait to lure other artists in
>The result is that Sam is payed good bucks and no other actual good artists contact this guy
What exactly is bad about this? A decent artist got payed well. That's about it.

>>2266652
I'd pay your mom to teach you some English, if you know what I mean.

exploitative jobs like this have always existed. whether you're dumb enough to take bait is up to you. frankly op, it sounds like you're pricing your work wrong, bad at negotiating or marketing to children; my money is on all three
>>2266353
if you want a cozy job and have no ambition, go be a liftie or a hemp farmer. you'll never go anywhere in life, but you wont have to try either

>>2266655
Fuck, I can't work for this guy now.

Reminder that every good artist who has ever posted his stuff on /ic/ has been able to make a living with his art.
Just saying.

>>2266471
>A good portfolio doesn't mean much when there are 10,000 other artists with equally good portfolios
post your work,
let us see what is the standard of your client

>>2266471
10.000 good artists don't even exist in the digital art scene.

>>2266688

This lol. Maybe a 1,000 genuinely good artists.

Apart from all the bullshit in this thread, looking through the art jobs at CA I saw a lot of big egos, holy shit. Look at that, for example:

http://www.conceptart.org/go/artjobs/job/ranier-keith-media-chicago-downtown-31-digital-illustrator-ninja/
Also, I have a question, how would you guys approach this offer:

http://www.conceptart.org/go/artjobs/job/one-eyed-robot-31-concept-artistillustrator-wanted-for-upcoming-animated-series/

I mean, he asks for rates, but at the same time it says

>to work on various concept art, character sheets and backgrounds for a pitch on an upcoming animated series

Should you send an hourly rate for concepart work? A different rate for character sheet? For a fully painted BG? How can I find what's a fair rate?

>>2266764
Never been to Chicago but that's what I'd imagine a Chicagoan sounds like.
Doesn't really sound like a big ego though, unless they're offering peanuts for pay. Generally though, when it comes to looking for work I'd rather see talk like that than someone who talks like Bob Ross. Don't get me wrong, I love Bob Ross but I've been there with clients like that and it usually ends poorly.
Anyway I don't know shit about animating so, I've got nothing there.

>>2266640

That just fucking blew my mind. If that's actually true my prior doomsayer posts were fucking spot on. Just wow. 350$ ??? Are you fucking serious? Please tell me you are kidding/trolling.

>>2266676

Yeah, just like olly claimed to be balling and swimming in dosh years ago, when even now his work is pretty low level and back then it was even worse obviously. They are all lying in attempts to self-promote.

>>2266811
He's probably charging way more now, if you can even get him. I think he may be under contract now.

>>2266816
Did you expect a seriously reply? I can give you a "post your work" in exchange for some other dank meme.

>>2266226
>>2266253
>Digital art is worthless garbage
http://ashlelang.tumblr.com/post/123119395383/your-boyfriend-is-strange-but-both-of-you-are

>>2266811
>>2266823
It's a meme, you dips

>>2266764
>This is not for the faint of heart; but the finished product will be a fully-illustrated, infographic-heavy curriculum level master work.
You want this book in your portfolio. You have no idea.
>I need someone with their OWN WACOM Professional-level, pressure-sensitive tablet and stylus!!! And your own machine (mac-preferred, but open) with ADOBE PHOTOSHOP
lel is this guy serious?

>>2266688
I bet there probably are. There's hundreds of thousands of people who have joined art forums in the past, and typically the number of lurkers heavily outweighs the number of posters/members. And that was years ago, nowadays it has become mainstream and there are probably ten times as many people getting into it.

>>2266253
noob here
how? patreon?

>>2266855
Oh.

Check this shit out

http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers/2134384/

Company posts concept artist job offer on DeviantArt forums - no information about pay specified. Dozens of artists line up desperately to show off their portfolios and compete for the position. Most of them suck, of course, but there's decent ones, too.

Then someone contacts the company to ask what the pay is, and the response is pic related.

"What? Pay? No, we're not paying you shit."

What's really damning about this is how desperate all these artists were for work. The client didn't even mention payment and they still applied.

>>2266872
That fucking email.

At least learn the language properly.

>Digital is dead
>Only traditional matters

Am I in fucking bizarro land?

>>2266872
He's an albanian or something, of course he's not paying

>>2266872

>What's really damning about this is how desperate all these artists were for work.

Holy fuck chill the fuck out for a second. Look at the actual artists applying.

They are DOGSHIT. 95% of them are nowhere near being even mediocre let alone being ready to get money for their work.

I think this isn't about the industry being shit, I think some of you are actually delusional in how good you need to be to earn money.

>>2266905

yeah, but every time any art job gets posted, all those dogshit artists swarm to offer their services, and they're willing to work for dogfood.

>>2266927
pretty sad too

>>2266905
>I think some of you are actually delusional in how good you need to be to earn money.
It's actually pretty ridiculous. On /ic/, anything short of the trinity's art is barely considered passable. It's fair to say that this board has the highest standards among online art communities. So whenever a decent artist says that he can make a living with his art, he gets accused of shilling (even though most of them don't have any reason to), self-promoting etc. Because he isn't up to par with those three guys. Whenever an anonymous complains about the industry however (without ever posting their work of course), he is always believed right away and a panic spree starts. People will cherrypick examples from obsolete forums, ads from pakistani game devs etc. in order to jump on the doomsayers bandwagon, forgetting about their standards all of a sudden. Or maybe it's properly because everyone is considered shit that it makes no difference. It's like a two-pronged confirmation bias. If this wasn't 4chan, people would be permanently on suicide watch.

>>2267051
Another weird thing is you see threads like "this guy's making money with this shit art, why aren't you?" all the time, so there is awareness that you don't have to be Ruan Mullins to get work, yet if your work isn't on that level, they'll tell you you'll never ever get hired. I think people here also forget that there's a lot of commercial work that specifically wants simple, maybe cartoony or even anime stuff. There's a pretty defeatest attitude here overall, and some other mob mentality where people start attacking rather than learning from anyone who starts actually getting good. It's so weird.

>>2266816
>even now his work is pretty low level and back then it was even worse obviously.
Explain to me again why this is worse than pretty low level.

>>2266884
Only good post ITT

>>2266213
What is killing the digital painting market are those eastern european people.

$40 per illustration? You live the good life in ukraine/russia with those rates.

Not surprisingly, A LOT of digital artists who take commissions full time are from those places.

Digital art will keep losing value - east EU are building an army of digital artists willing to take mid level commissions and will keep inflating the worldwide situation, since digital has no boundaries.

You have artists AIMING to make a living off those $40 commissions over there - it's a legit career cause life is cheap.

If you accept prices like this it's your own fault. Don't go around spreading doomsday bullshit because you're a total moron with no business sense.
I'm currently working on a tcg game and I'm getting around 650€ per illustration. A month before that I got more than 2k for a couple of character concepts. I outright refuse to work below 40€/hour and it has served me well so far. Of course I have to refuse a lot of offers but at the same time I'm getting enough adequately paid work to make up for it. In the end I work less and earn the same or more than people, who accept jobs like this "to fill the gaps".

Protip: When potential clients ask for your rates, ask for at least 20% more to leave room for haggling. I had one client this year, who started haggling and I still got more than I would have without asking for 20% more. Also make sure to adjust your rates according to the budget of your clients (research is important).

If all artists would show some dignity for themselves the industry would be a much better place for us.

One last thing: If you can't find enough good paying work, you're not good enough yet. Simple as that. Find a part time job so you can still afford to refuse badly paid work. Git gud in the meantime and start making a name for yourself.

>>2266180
>this thread

>>2267431
>I'm getting around 650€ per illustration

I don't buy it.

>>2267431
Let's assume that one IS at a high enough level, but has been a recluse for a while and no longer has any contacts in the field and is out of touch with art communities and whatnot.

Where would you recommend looking for jobs? Or promoting yourself? Do you just cold-email places? How are you finding jobs? Are there any places that actually have decent job postings?

I used to do more freelance stuff but fell out of touch with things--didn't convert to artstation when cghub died, been off fb and skype for a while, had a studio job for a bit that meant I didn't partake in any online promotion or anything, haven't been on forums in years, haven't updated website in a while (still have stuff locked under NDA actually, also laziness) etc.

>>2267439
Do you have enough experience in the industry to even know if that's plausible or not? I'm thinking no.

IC is just a handful of fags feeding each other the same second hand information over and over in a giant self affirming circle jerk.

>>2267442
Not that anon but you need to promote yourself like anyone else would. Post to Tumblr, Instagram, facebook, all the shit. Post regularly. Fuck job postings, christ people are lazy as fuck. You need to be cold emailing companies with a targeted portfolio. Find products or business that use work similar to yours, go to their websites and see what the email is for artists to send samples. You're probably not going to get call backs right away, it may take months of emailing before you get work but you need to start somewhere and most of all stick with it.

>>2267439
Other people did, apparently.

>>2267436

stop spamming this shit in every thread you colossal faggot

>>2267444

I do, surprisingly.

>>2267457
Lies. 650$ for a card illustration I can get for 200$... how about no.

>>2267468
I'm going to start doing it too just to piss you off.

*saves anons macro*

>>2267481
>Lies. 650$ for a card illustration I can get for 200$... how about no.

Not only different companies pay different rates, but they also have different arrangements with different artists. If you're paid $200 then that's only indicative of the people you work with and your own skills.

>>2267439
Deal with it, m8.

>>2267491

>>2267431

Are you Appleflinger?

>>2267490
I think it's more about different companies than individual artists. Many of these places have set budgets, and literally can't afford to pay the better artists more than the shit ones (or there might be a tiny different in pay scale, but barely even counts). Some of them know they are underpaying their artists but they justify it by telling the artists to recoup costs by selling prints.

>>2267481
he said € so even more than 650$ :3

>>2267495
No. I know him but we haven't had contact since he went famous.

>>2267500
Guess he cut ties with the nobodies, lel

>>2266203
>Sam Carr
This guy?:

http://samc-art.deviantart.com/gallery/

>>2267527
Are you dumb? OP's image is in his DA gallery. Of Course that guy.

>>2267491

4.8k euro? i guess there is money to be made with this shit after all LOL.

Now I'm just dying to know who you are and what your work looks like... there's not many german guys posting on here as far as I know.

>>2267051

Pretty much this. lol

I know plenty of artists working and making a living out of it, several of them with a lower technical ability than me, but they compensate with style, storytelling, focused work like animation BG, etc. And most of them don't do international work, they're working just in Brazil as far as I know.

Just now I'm slowly trying to infiltrate the business because I wasn't satisfied enough with my work, but I've been receiving a lot of incentive from other artists that I should already be getting paid to do what I do, so I'll jump for it soon.

Also, digital art is GROWING, not shrinking as people say here all the time. Most of those DA artists will end up just as hobbyists and even so artists never had more job opportunities than now.

>>2267491

You already posted work here, right? I think I know who you are. :B

>>2267561
>digital art is GROWING

yeah, the supply is. you live in brazil, you can make a living solving captchas for 4 hours a day, 5 days a week. not even kidding.

>>2267568

You really read anything I said? Artists I know DON'T DO international work.

>>2267561
>Also, digital art is GROWING.....
It's obvious that it is. I don't get where the uninformed IC mentality of digital art shrinking is coming from. If someone doesn't like digital that's one thing but as soon as you hear anyone say digital is going away you know they're not a working artist in the games, entertainment/movie or publishing industries.

Digital art is the vast majority of published work and that's not going to change any time soon. Unless people mean for the sale of original artwork, then yeah digital isn't going to get you anywhere. Collectors who go to cons and look to buy art from artists want original work but companies don't give a shit how you make stuff and most people nowadays are using digital because it's faster and easier.

>>2267572
Ignore these morons. If they want to be contrarian and remain ignorant it's because they don't have the will to make it. It's not worth the time to fight back, you've armed them with the info, the lurkers will read it and make use of it. Thanks for posting.

Please help, who do I email to stop being poor?

>>2267354
>east EU are building an army of digital artists
This is what /ic/ unironically believes. First it was the photobashing polish moms, now it's fucking KGB sleeper freelancer agents. I don't even...

>>2267584
Anyone working in the industry knows this is true.Hell you can go to a levelup hangout for free and see the dozens of russians better than anyone from /ic/ happy to work for $50

>>2267597
Your sense of scale is as screwed as those who claim that every Chinese artist is god-tier. How many of these superior Russian artist have you seen? Do you realize how small of a % those "dozens" represent compared to the grand total of artists working in the industry right now? Even if you had seen 1000 of them, which you have not, that would still be not enough to influence the industry as a whole in any perceivable way like the doomsayers like to imply.

>>2267597
Damn. I should move to Russia, because here in Argentina 1000 dollars a month would be the minimum I'd need to live by myself in some mediocre apartment.

>>2267597

This! I'm just living in a small time town of 150,000 in Canada, and I went to some random art convention.

There were AT LEAST 15 Russians all who were on RuanJia's level of above, who were willing to work for peanuts.

>>2267673

Who the hell are these Ruan Jia-level russian artists? Link pls

>>2267707
See >>2267675
Fucking hell, this board

Companies are hiding those Russian Jia guys probably...

Fantasy and sci-fi art is one of the most oversaturated illustration industries in terms of supply + demand.

This is not new information. How can you idiots be so dense?

>>2267500
Why don't you just say you're tehmeh if you're gonna admit to that?

I think it's important to note that a big part of your success that people aren't seeing on here is that you aren't a socially retarded recluse.

>>2267733
tehmeh isn't german

>>2266867

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and compare this to programming because I'm seeing a lot of the same themes. The amount of people who start programming, or art, or any "hobby turned go-pro" and those who actually stick with it long enough to become proficient enough to work with deadlines and produce quality end work, is largely disproportional. Anyone at anytime can decide "I'm gonna be an artist" or "I'm gonna become a programmer" and sign up for Khanacademy and Github or go to college and get a Compsci degree but neither of those things are going to make you a great software engineer. It takes a legitimate interest in developing your critical thinking and problem solving skills, always relearning and retweaking your abilities or as the industry likes to call it "continuing education." It's all so similar to art and digital art that it kinda threw me off for a second. I mean one of the only industries that continually had people spending money on it during the great depression was the cinema, i.e. entertainment. With the slow but sure globalization effect happening, we are seeing more and more a craving for entertainment in the form of art, music, games, movies, and gadgets.

If you don't wanna risk it as a full time artist, then stop being a fucking moron and do what 98% of us do. Have other interests, have a fucking day job, and if your "art career" takes off then so be it. Worrying isn't going to GET YOU FUCKING ANYWHERE///////////

>>2267747
Yeah but it's still a numbers game. Say only 5% of people who try to get into it actually make it to professional levels. If there are 500,000 people that are interested in doing it, then that means there are still 25,000 professionals in the industry. And personally I think 500k is a very conservative estimate. CA has over 400k members, and forums are no longer relevant and the amount of people getting into it in the last few years is skyrocketing enormously. Add in all the people from from non-English speaking countries and you start to get a HUGE number of people who have professional skillsets. Let's not forget that there are more online art schools and resources than ever before too making it easier to reach a pro level.

>>2266180
I don't get it.
I can make this pic in 8 hours, 40$ is good price for that.

>>2267779
>I can make this pic in 8 hours
Doubtful.
>40$ is good price for that.
That's still $5/hour which is below at least the US minimum wage so, still not a good price for any labor, at least legally speaking, in the states.

>>2267779
>8 hours
>$40 is good price for that

can't tell if troll or just this retarded

>>2267431

srs question: how good are you? obviously nobody here is going to post their work, but I'm willing to take your word for it, since we're all anonymous and there's no ego boost from pretending to be awesome if you're not.

Can you post a picture by someone else that's roughly equivalent to your level, or tell us what TCG you're working on so we can see what level they're accepting?

It'd be useful to have some context to this thread, because right now, it's just people arguing about how viable the illustration biz is without any way of determining whether their success or failure is due to bad business skills or bad art.

>>2267779
so 5$ an hour is good enough for you? You'd make more working as a housekeeper for fuck's sake

>>2267575
>. I don't get where the uninformed IC mentality of digital art shrinking is coming from.

I don't think anyone says that digital art itself is shrinking (except for maybe a few trolls/dumbasses). What people are saying is that the pool of good artists is growing all the time, especially in places with low cost of living like Eastern Europe and Asia, and that competing with those talent pools who can afford to work for much cheaper than Westerners can is getting more and more difficult.

>>2267790
>I'm willing to take your word for it, since we're all anonymous and there's no ego boost from pretending to be awesome if you're not.

How new are you? Misleading people is fun, it's not about some ego boost. The best artists on this board post their work all the time without reservation because there's no reason not to-and self-promotion threads have tons of participation because there's literally no reason for there not to be. If he isn't willing to post his personal work then he doesn't deserve anyone's attention and his words don't deserve anyone's respect. Period. It's the same as someone making a broad claim on a discussion-oriented board without providing any kind of citation to support his assertion.

>>2267733

fuck off tehmeh, nobody thinks it's you. so done with your samefagging.

>>2267790
People always get so caught up on this. You can see what's out there every time you step through the door or surf online. You'll find great work, you'll find awful work, and yet it's all people getting work. One person will never be the universal litmus test. All that matters is you do the best you can and put it out there, and judge by the responses you personally get. It's much better to do that than keep chasing some phantom bar of how good you need to be. Just go and try, as long as you keep making strides forward you'll get there, sitting and waiting and trying for perfection is the fastest way to stagnate career wise.

>>2267790
Not that anon, but guessing based on those rates he probably is slightly below MtG level.

>>2267804

>The best artists on this board post their work all the time without reservation

Pants on head retarded.

>>2267584
It's circumstances, not the government executing some plan, you dense shit.

You live in a place where average life costs $2 a day.

Who is more likely to be a freelance commissioner doing teenager smalltime stuff? You or the american, who has to pay thousands for healthcare alone? What do you think, captain autism?

Same exact reason why most people working on boats are from poor countries. Because the pay is standardized, obviously more people will consider such a career if they come from a third world country, as the same amount of money they will bring home has more spending power for them.

>>2267804
>The best artists on this board post their work all the time without reservation because there's no reason not to-and

Do artists really want to be associated with 4chan?

>>2267790
It's not like there are many TCG videogames going on right now, anon.

My guess is HEX. Don't think there's anything that even has the resources to pay 4k to one artist.

>>2267812

That's true. This board is the only place I've ever seen people frankly discuss money and the success or failure of their own careers, though. Nobody wants to talk about that shit unless they're anonymous.

As long as we're having this honest discussion between doomsayers and successfags, it'd be cool to have some barometer of what level of work is getting success, and how much other factors are at play. Nobody would ever look at Sakimichan's work and imagine that she made $800k a year, for example. Business sense, self promotion ability, luck, un-tapped fanbases to draw fanart for - there are so many factors that contribute to success or failure at art. It'd be nice to simplify the variables. So difficult to do when everyone is anonymous, though.

>>2267828
>Don't think there's anything that even has the resources to pay 4k to one artist.
I bet some of the bigger ones might for special cases. Like I bet Wizards paid Rigney something like that for the promo art he did for them. Or when Applibot first started drowning in success they just hired every single big name person around, and I bet a couple of them got paid a lot more than the others.

Also in a slightly different field you have publication stuff, like a cover for a large magazine or book publisher will pay in the several thousand dollar range.

>>2267834
>It'd be nice to simplify the variables
See that's the problem. The whole beauty of it IS the infinite possibilities and variables. What will succeed and what will fail is completely unpredictable, that's why even if you meet 1000 people you think are better than you, you'll always still have a chance. You know the strengths and weaknesses of your work, what you need to do to make it better. You need to be completely self driven. Because what if someone is better than you? Are you just going to give up and stop here? No, you're going to keep going anyway. And even if you see this guy's work and you bring yourself to a point where you think you've matched it, you can still get rejected from jobs, so you'll just keep having to improve anyway. So why even bother wanting to see this one guy's or that guy's or a hundred guys' work who've gotten jobs, because it won't affect you getting a job as much as you think.
tldr Stop comparing yourself to others and just draw.

>>2267431
>If you can't find enough good paying work, you're not good enough yet. Simple as that. Find a part time job so you can still afford to refuse badly paid work. Git gud in the meantime and start making a name for yourself.

I'm considering doing that. Can you explain how was your training/study process until you got in that level (and how much time and work hours it took)? I live in a third world shithole and we are facing an economic crisis at this moment, a 40€/hour job would help me and my family a lot.

Pro tip from someone who has done work for several game studios, trading card companies, among other things:

It's not just about being technically skilled, it's about being smart enough to mold your style into the style your employer is looking for.

If person A is incredibly skilled from a technical standpoint, but has his own distinct style and it never differs, he will be passed over in favor of person B, who is less skilled but can acclimate his style to please the employer.

>>2267870
True, but the other side of the coin is that if you have a distinct style you might get hired specifically for that too.

>>2267848

There are a lot of fields to work for. People here just remember of concept art and illustration and forget completely about comics, for example.

Anons also forget that not only big companies and international jobs exists... There are a lot of local jobs, even more if the country don't do too well with english.

Here in Brazil I just discovered yesterday that there is a big comic scene growing and maturing, with artists I didn't even knew existed and, when surfing through their facebooks, I've had 0 friends in relations with them and I have more or less 150 of those big artists famous in the web as friends in facebook, a lot of them from very different styles. Which means that all those comic book artists aren't interested in the same thing I am, mostly animation artists, concept artists and illustrators.

The same happen when I surf through tumblr and find a new really good artist I've had never heard of about working for a company I didn't knew existed.

If you work on a field you'll probably be kinda unknow for the other unless you have a really big name like Dave Rapoza, for example.

>>2267880
Good points about everything, but I wish I could figure out how to make comics lucrative for me, that's what I want to do most and trained the most for but every way I look at it these days I just don't see it working out, but that's in the US.

>>2267880

Yesterday was the first time I attended a meeting of local artists that is happening in my city for about a year and a half, and even through I've had the group at facebook, that fucking site never showed me anything from it in my timeline.

I can finally say I have art buddies lol.

But the thing is that the meeting is hosted by a guy who just opened a publishing house and is publishing his first comic book. He said I shouldn't be hiding all this time and that I would have made it in the book if showed earlier.

I also knew a lot of people working for very different fields in art, and the meetings are growing they said. I also met an awesome artists, and an awesome dude too, who already published 3 comics, we had a good chat, added him on facebook. He said people are eager to consume more authorial stuff nowadays.

There was a guy doing comics, other caricature, a girl who does street art and sell at auctions, etc.


I left the meeting really hopeful and can't wait for next month. :)

>>2267880
>big comic scene growing and maturing

Brazilian here (I'm also >>2267858 ) , who is buying that shit? Hipsters and Bazingueiros from avenida Augusta? I tough everyone where downloading comics in Brazil, our scan teams are very competent in this job.

>>2267880
I know brazilian comic guys like http://pietro-ant.deviantart.com/ and they struggle to make any money of comics and live off online commissions. I think you're in for a shock when you find out how much these artists are making.

>>2267887

Maybe try with a webcomic? I think if it is really good you'll have the recognition for it.

Maybe work on it on your own and publish some samples on your own and go for it at cons?
US have A LOT of local stuff going around, a lot of events like comic con, etc. I've never been there and I know it.

Go for it with some finished work and see what happens. The thing is, only if you already have a really big fanbase to get your name out there, nobody will find you. I lost an opportunity to see my work on a published book(even if small one) because I was hiding in my house watching Netflix shows.

>>2267900
Yeah I've gone to Comic Con and others for years. It basically is self-publish or nothing, but I've decided to try for other work for a while, try to get myself on slightly more stable ground before I commit to something like that.

>>2267893

There must be people buying if there is publishing houses publishing those type of works. Even Catarse is doing better and better everyday.

>>2267897

I haven't said it's easy and all of them are doing good. I said there is opportunity and there is a growing market, and that's true.

And you really know others beside that one you posted and how they're doing? Talking with working artists from different fields they all said the same thing: It's hard but it's a growing market.

>>2267897
He is very competent artist, I personally don't know where ( >>2267880 ) discovered this goldmine of well paying art jobs in Brazil.

>>2267910

Don't distort my words. I never said that there is a goldmine of well paying jobs.

Guys, please listen to one fantastic week and seanwes. Peter goes into a million different ways to make money from illustration: licencing, kickstarters, conventions etc.. He also talks about the potential of sole proprietor/ entrepreneurial artists and being your own business, like he did with angelarium.

Sean talks about value based pricing and never going to a client and asking for work, as this starts the whole relationship as them doing a favor for YOU by letting you work with them. Git gud, and let them come to you (this takes marketing and business skills). Also value based pricing = your time + your cost (materials etc..) + value to the customer.

Seriously, look outside the tiny hole of game and movie concept art and think about what you yourself actually want to do, and apply that to the world. It's ok to fucking market to people who aren't artists.

>>2266471
There are no clients from hell because only shitty artists take them on. If it sounds shitty, don't fucking do it, that simple. Say no to good things so you can say yes to great things, there are good jobs out there.

>>2267915

Sorry, that was not my intention, anão. But lets take this Catarse as an example: catarse.me/pt/soboolhardosfamintos

This guy is a established artist (much more than you and me, for instance) and is going to spend maybe... 50% of that money on print and shipping? How much time he spent writing the story and drawing 52 Pages? 2 months?

In the end of the day, that is not much more than R$1.750 per month. And keep in mind that you have 0 labor rights, if you get sick for more than two weeks you're fucked.

>>2267818
The only reason people don't post their work here is because they talk a whole lot of shit and have nothing to show for it.

>>2267825
4chan is an open discussion board website with over two billion posts. Who gives a fuck? All the people that don't post their work choose not to do it because they know it blows and they'll get shit on for it. At least admit it, that's why I don't. I only post when I'm looking for advice regarding some specific concept that I'm struggling with. However, if someone comes on here acting like they're a professional artist and in the know and giving all sorts of "advice" then they can post their goddamn work and prove that their words have any merit whatsoever.

>>2267969
>The only reason people don't post their work here is because they talk a whole lot of shit and have nothing to show for it.

It's also because few people want to have their career to the unfiltered shit they say on places like 4chan. This is the site where people come to take a shit, not to sell their professional image. You're a massive cock sucking faggot, but I kind of don't want me telling you that associated with my name. Sure, some very good professionals don't mind shitting on people and putting their sign on it, but they're also cock sucking faggots.

>>2267985
Or, you could just be the kind of person who doesn't go around calling people names all the time, and post your work freely.

>>2267965

I think he had too little followers to start with. The thing with catarse and kickstarter is marketing, as an artist you NEED a fanbase to get something out of it. Look at Brão's Cornucopia, for example. He has a lot of followers on instagram and other social media sites.

At the end of the project you can see he did a pizza graphic showing his expenses.

I think he did the campaign really wrong without asking any money at all for his effort. He should ask at least 30% of the money for his personal needs and also ask for more. I mean, 52 pages and all the work that involves creating a comic on your own, it's too much work for just 2 months, 3 may be a reasonable amount of time I think.

Also, how will you expect people pay for your work if you're not networking with other artists or getting exposed in social medias? His project facebook page has barely 400 likes and even with that few followers he got the money to do it. I don't think that's so bad of a deal and with that work he can at least get a real publisher or a better fan base for his next project.

>>2267985
>the stuff they say

Who's "they"? The hundreds of thousands of users that almost all have "anonymous" in the name field and have contributed over two billions of posts to this special interest website? If you make a claim on an anonymous imageboard be prepared to back it up. Such a person could post a 2-5 minute gesture drawing or sketch that they don't have associated with their portfolio and the quality of their work would be self-evident just from that.

They don't, however, because they're shit and they want to TALK shit and have no intention of substantiating said shit. So there you go.

>>2266274
>Wouldn't want to depress everyone with the fact that I am actually quite decent
Yeah, sure. No problem, dude. We trust you.

>>2267897

how the fuck is that guy considered very competent? ?

i just came here to say i keep opening this thread to look at the main image and I haven't read what it's about or the replies. boobs. whos with me?

>>2267992

>apply for company
>company does background check
>finds out you posted art to 4chan
>4chan is a horrible place where gore and pedophilia thrive
>let's not hire this piece of shit

>>2268242
Not at all likely. I have friends who actually do work in the industry who watch snuff gifs on the regular. Big brother really doesn't give a shit. I mean fuck, I even have a card gig and I've been posting here for years before that, granted I'm just a contractor but still, they don't care what websites I post on, I've even posted work I've done for them here lol.

>>2268242
They hire real convicted criminals, like Dave Rapoza, so I don't think they would give a fuck about shitposting.

>>2268163
Pretty much. Also came for the illustrations of lesbians someone mentioned...

>>2268253
??? What crime did he commit?

>>2268253

A testament to this industry valuing skill over anything else.

So is Noah Bradley's "The Art of Freelancing" still valid or what?

>>2268253

"We regret to inform you that we cannot accept your application at the moment, as it has come to our attention that you on numerous occasion have posted the banana meme on 4chan."

>>2268266

>thanks for buying the art of freelancing
>i'm not really freelancing yet but you bought this because you heard me claim that i am a highly successful freelancer who paid off his 40k student debt in a year.
>haha, in reality you just helped me do that by buying this little audiothing
>yes that's the reality of commercial art... you will make more money selling hopes and dreams to hopeful newcomers, than by actually doing art.
>why don't i discourage others from throwing their lifes away like i did? well because you gotta fake it till you make it and the more i tell people that i'm successful, the more my fans will cling on to me and the more clients will want to hire me!
>the only reason i can get by somewhat alright is because i'm smart as fuck from a business perspective, and have ZERO scrupels or self respect. i'll even use nudes of myself to promote my 'art'
>in reality most of the money i've made has come from art camp HAHA.
>i'd probably be a millionaire if i had applied my business skills and lack of self respect mentality to selling something of actual value, not art.
>yours truly, noah bradley.

>>2268286
>Uses example of a highly specialized mediocre landscape fantasy artists who has trouble getting work because he is mediocre in respect to his peers as an example that art is useless

>another lazy troll moron trying to get others to give up as he did.

>>2268286

He got hired by Wizards of the Coast and did a magic card in a new set very recently. He clearly arouses interest in top level clients.

Shitposting isn't really funny when you look pathetic doing it.

>>2268261
I don't think he actually ever said exactly what he did, but I think he hinted it was something like shoplifting? He probably stole some snack or a beer from a shop when he was younger and got caught by a cop I guess. Maybe. i don't remember. If his old videos are still up you can find it. It was in a really old video though.

>>2268297
Great, getting hired....so what? If you don't get enough work to sustain yourself who gives a shit what few clients actually hire you? Or are you too dumb to remember you need to eat and pay rent. I even remember him in some of his old vids complaining he had to find other ways to make money.

You know what is pathetic? Someone with a simple minded and naive outlook on the business of art, like yourself. Getting hired by a big company like WoTC is only half the battle. If you have an ultra targeted set of work like Noah does (only landscapes) the jobs you'll get are limited by a lot. The fact his landscapes aren't really all that amazing could mean a limit to the amount of work you get, it's a simple concept.

>>2268309

At the end of the day you are talking like you understand his situation based on a few anecdotes in the past, when the reality is that you are as clueless as anyone else about how well off he is as a freelancer.

Pretending like you are intelligent and calling other people stupid is laughable. You are a pathetic.

>>2268309

At the end of the day you are talking like you understand his situation based on a few anecdotes in the past, when the reality is that you are as clueless as anyone else about how well off he is as a freelancer.

Pretending like you are intelligent and calling other people stupid is laughable. You are pathetic.

>>2268309
It's common knowledge that (good) landscape artists drown in work because everybody and their mother specializes in characters and monsters instead.
That said Noah is a shit artist, but that doesn't even matter anymore now that he is a successful businessman.

>>2268317

>That said Noah is a shit artist

Holy fuck DAMN you must be amazing then. Post your work so we can awe in amazement at your god-tier skills, if Noah Bradley is shit to you.

>>2268316
>At the end of the day you are talking like you understand his situation based on a few anecdotes in the past, when the reality is that you are as clueless as anyone else about how well off he is as a freelancer.
>Pretending like you are intelligent and calling other people stupid is laughable. You are pathetic.


You're literally doing what you said that anon is doing, lol.

>>2268321
Noah, we know you don't want to hear it but your work is shit mediocre crap. Go get better.

Someone doesn't have to be god tier to judge your work, the very art directors you pros work for don't paint and they sit and deem people worthy or not worthy all day long.

Along with your work your arguments are shit tier as well.

>shilling this hard for an artist.

>>2268261
grand larceny

>>2268324

I called him pathetic, not stupid. I'm also not making a case based on a few anecodtes. Reading comprehension, anon.

>>2268336
>'m also not making a case based on a few anecdotes
lol yes you are, you don't know any more about the artist than the other guy. So anything you say in defense is also just as baseless. The fact you're so butt hurt that someone insulted your boyfriend is what makes you pathetic. It's an anon msg board, you don't need to defend his honor. lol.

>Same tired ass reading comprehension comeback everyone and their mother uses.

Could somebody gibve me a tldr summup of this thread please?

>>2268340

You are actually retarded. I'm not making any concrete statements like the other guy. No one knows how successful Noah is, that's what I said. I'm not defending him by calling out idiocy.

Learn to read, you fucking dipshit. Maybe try hanging around /lit/ instead of /ic/.

>>2268347

Oh wait, I just realized the guy I'm replying to IS the guy who made the dumb statement, and tried to pass himself off as someone else to give himself credibility.

What a fucking loser rofl. I'm out.

>>2268343
Mostly people arguing over whether someone can survive as a freelance artist. A couple people saying no way, some saying yeah with hard work and maybe branching out to not just 2D or concept work. A lot of the filler has been arguing over specific known freelancers. That's pretty much it.

>>2268321
I'm pretty good to be honest. My gf modeled for me for this piece.

>>2268360

>that horrible anatomy

>>2268360
The rendering on this is nice but holy shit to all of that anatomy and construction. She looks like she's about to become a necromorph.
Different anon though.

>>2268360

how do people get decent at rendering without knowing how to draw?

>>2268377
I would love to find out, I learned how to draw but I'm having a bitch of a time learning how to render.

>>2268377
>>2268369

that is not decent rendering. that is absolutely average deviantart scrubtier.

>>2268389
Nah nah, it's nice, shows some effort. It is on top of a bad foundation but the paintjob is appealing.

>>2268360
Don't mind them, anon. You're good enough to have work. Good job for posting your work unlike the spineless "pros" in this thread.

>>2268397

Why did you reply to yourself?

>>2268397
It's not the worst thing ever but definitely not any better than Noah Bradley, so I really hope that wasn't the person who said Noah Bradley's a shit artist.
Also I've stated I had professional work several times in this thread but nobody called me out so I don't think I'm spineless. Then again though, I wasn't talking mad shit about anything.

>>2268400
I can quite assure you that's not "me", anon.

>>2268360
Holy shit this is a brilliant troll and response, good job

>>2268360

http://noahbradley.deviantart.com/art/A-Heart-of-Fear-and-Courage-420567835

You guys are dumb, Noah is the one who painted this.

>>2268435

Damn, we got played. Not bad. That is a bad piece for professional artist. Fuck.

>>2268415
cant we all use made up names instead of Anon, you know for the sake of identity

>>2268435
LOL oh man, that's great. Shit, I thought I should've reverse searched it.
Wow, I take back what I said, he is kind of a shit artist. I've seen some Sakimichan pieces I thought were really weak but nothing as bad as that. Man even PK's weird Tifa wasn't that messed up. Damn, better look before I leap next time hahaha.

>>2268328
Not that anon but Noah's work is pretty fucking gud.

I find it funny really, most people such as yourself probably won't ever actually get anywhere near close to the work he gets.

>>2268442
>Sakimichan
>Derivative shit work that appeals to a variety of fanbases to make half a million a year

I don't think Noah is even that good but fuck me as least his work has creativity. Dumb bitch literally just does technically impressive fanart and gets tons of money for it, fucking disgusting.

>>2268448
>technically impressive
And here I thought this thread couldn't get any better.

>>2268449
I was trying to explain the only decent trait she has and even then you're right, it isn't even that good.

>>2268447
>Not that anon but Noah's work is pretty fucking gud.

AHAHAHAHA

just wait till you are 3 times better than NOAH and nobody will fucking even reply at your emails.

>>2268454
>just wait till you are 3 times better than NOAH and nobody will fucking even reply at your emails.

I find this pretty hard to believe if you're 3 times better than him. You should be able to get good work.

>>2268448
She does have work in her gallery that's not fanart, but everyone just ignores that because she's most popular for her fanart. But at least her execution of people is better than that, although in some ways I liked Noah's rendering on that pic a little more, looks less waxy. Anyway I shouldn't have even brought her up, don't want this to devolve into debates about her.

>>2267084
its obvious there too many impressionable young people here.

>>2268465
It's like they're impressionable about some things and completely unmovable on others. Not to make it so black and white but generally I find people here are willing to accept something negative without much question, but not really anything positive.

>>2268360
I wonder if I could dare say I'm better than this? I still don't know how to render, but I think I'm better at constructing a figure. I guess he mainly gets work for his environments though, but still.

>>2267491
Post your work, pls.
Im curios what level one has to be for dat.

>>2268360
What if the model actually looks like that?

>>2268476
Didn't you read the rest of it? It's not happening.

>>2268474
As an artist, ethically speaking, you might very well be better. As a commercial illustrator though, no render = no work.

>>2267431
Are you Marko Djurdovic?

>>2268484
Well, I'm working on learning it but I seriously don't know how people ever figure this shit out. No matter how I look at it, it looks like I would need to spend money on classes or gumroads or patreon tuts or something. Whenever I've looked for anything on youtube or DA it's been hard to find something really good buried under all the people who just shouldn't be making tutorials but are.

>>2268478
Noah pls...

>>2268488
uhhh
I guess you could get a high res file of an artist you like and extrapolate from there

orrrrrrrrrrrrrr
you can just paint a shit ton and experiment works pretty good me thinks

>>2268496
I've been doing the latter mostly, I guess I should try incorporating some of the former. I just feel so stupid for not being able to do it, especially when I see people doing it who clearly don't even know how to draw, it's so frustrating.

>>2267767
Different anon here, but your estimates seem way off to me. It'd be more like 2% or less who make it to professional levels, and besides, what does that even mean?

What it all comes down to at the end of the day is just being better than the competition. Not cheaper, not in some shitty country with tax cheats or something, not sucking more dick than the other Polish photobashing crowd. It comes down to just being the best, nothing can replace that. You think Mullins/JJ/RuanJia/insertwaifuhere are losing jobs to bashers and barely professional people from Brazil or wherever?

Be the best, and you'll always have work, because the clients will want YOUR work. Not whoever can paint this dragon scene the fastest/cheapest, no, they want the artist who did X piece, or who worked with them before on X project.

>>2266577
>What? 3D art is still art.
>So is singing, acting, architecture, etc. what's your point?

If you were to ever get a job working in concept then almost everything you make would then be passed onto the 3D guys, and you'd constantly be having back and forths to explain/improve/refine.

If you're a cunt to those guys, or loudly talk about their stuff being trash that isn't art, or is somehow less worthy than your 2D stuff, then you will never get a job. Anywhere. No one wants to hire someone who doesn't get along with their team, or doesn't understand that they're but a cog in the machine, one more person on the conveyor belt pumping out finished products.

>>2266598
>>2266585

One of my uni teachers was a guy who worked for Rockstar as a character concept artist. Worked mainly on the DLCs for IV I think, but anyway, he talked with me about how to get into studio once and said that having different skills is key. He got hired there for doing purely 3D work first, modelling vehicles, weapons, then characters, and then when they needed a new 2D art guy he got first shot with the folio. The studios look within their own walls first before they start trawling through all the applications they get sent.

>>2268253
ooooooooh burn

>>2268261
Shoplifting I'm pretty sure. I know it was stealing and getting caught. That's what made him push for the art world so much because no one in the real world would hire him because of fears that he'd steal from the workplace. I remember when he used to tell the story of how he worked a real job hard and saved for ages so he could have a full year of grinding and getting good, and how it all paid off. But nope, he's admitted that was a lie, that he only started grinding so much because he had no other option.

>>2268286
All of my this. Noah made such grand posts about how he was a full time professional, paid off his debts and loans and still had enough for holidays and shit, but it was primarily down to him targeting the oh so lucrative market that is wannabe artists desperate to be pro one day.

>>2268524

Do american employers always check the criminal record? I've never heard of anyone in Sweden where I live being denied a job because of shoplifting in their youth.

>>2268360
>>2268321
10/10

>>2268529
I'm not a USfag so couldn't tell you. Here in the UK it's pretty common to be refused jobs or even getting past the application stage if you have a record. And it wasn't "in his youth", he was stealing shit, got caught, and then had a year where he knew he wouldn't get hired anywhere. I don't know if there was a specific date like him being on probation or some shit, don't know how US system works.

You can rob like rapoza or sexually assault other artists like noah bradley and nobody gives a single shit. Yet people think posting on an insignificant art forum will ruin their lives. It's a hilarious self defense mechanism. The guy that goes around here saying he's as good as Ruan Jia, but he just doesn't want his reputation ruined by an art board is /ic/ incarnate. Self hating and delusional to the highest degree.

best thread of month though A+ shitposting all around. everyone give yourself a pat on the back

>>2268534

What did Noah do, did he try to "run game" on some female digital painters?

>>2268529
Yeah, pretty much they do. Whenever you apply somewhere they usually give you some form where you have to consent to them checking that about you, even somewhere stupid like a grocery store. Once I had to give a fucking hair and urine sample to apply to work at a theme park, man.
>>2268534
See >>2267804
>The best artists on this board post their work all the time without reservation because there's no reason not to
I think this anon said it best. The only people who refuse to post work when asked do so because they don't want to be made fun of, everyone else knows it's not going to have the least affect on their career or whatever.

>>2268309
Noah had to bullshit his way into a job and now got at least $5000 form WotC in a single set, with surely more to come from the next set that is also terrain-art heavy and steady montly $1000 checks forevermore because Terese Nielsen and John Avon can't do all the land art.

All because he didn't give up.

>>2268474
You're shit anon.
You can draw absolute perfect linework and you won't get hired for illustration.
Not even comics unless your perfect linework extends to enviroments, storytelling and design. Not just muh anatomy.

There is a threshold in "realistic" drawing called the uncanny valley, once you're past that and people don't second guess or feel disthraught by your anatomy, getting any better is useless for commercial work. Noah and Rapoza are paid the same for card art at WotC. Having better figures doesn't give you "good artist" points. Hell, once you're past hiring quality you can literally stop trying and still keep getting work. Look at Steve Argyle, Greg Land, motherfucking Rob Liefield.

Get your foot on the door and stop being so anal about /ic/'s fucked up standards.

All this thread makes me realize is that /ic/ is an awful and toxic place. I seriously need to find some kind of art community to join before you guys make me mentally ill.

>>2268706
>before you guys make me mentally ill
>tfw when it actually kinda accomplished that
Run while you still can anon. Run and be free.
Even if you can't find a community, studying on your own and trying to stay positive is better than being engulfed in this shithole.
You may think "oh it's just honest and I won't let myself be affected by the negative shit, I will just focus on the constructive parts in all this bitterness" but all this negativity will get to you eventually.

>>2268716
That, and this place is also 90% people with no fucking clue telling others how (not) to do it.

>YOU WILL NEVER GET A JOB AS AN ARTIST EVEN THOUGH I AM 500 TIMES BETTER THAN NOAH BRADLEY
>I AM CLEARLY SUPERIOR HAHAHAHAHAH
>This level of delusion

Noah is by no means the best artist ever but he is certainly really skillful. I doubt pretty much anyone on /ic/ is actually as good as him.

This level of shitposting and delusion in this thread though is hilarious.

>>2268651
He didn't bullshit his way into a job, he just networked his art to various people in the industry.

He took time off class one day to go down to some expo to showcase it and it was a huge success.

Networking and the buisness side can help quite a lot if you're not the best artist ever. Clearly worked for him.

Damn you people are negative.

I 23 and work as a graphic designer both in house and freelance.
I've been doing that for about 2 years now.

I've also been drawing for 5 years now but only started taking it seriously last year, last month I finished up my first big commission.
Got me € 710,- for about 2 weeks(20 hours) work.

That's on top of my graphic design work so i make a more than decent living off it.

I get more commissions at quite a nice pace and hope to be doing full illustration work in about 2-4 years.

What i'm trying to say is that it's very possible to make a living off art, just don't expect it to just fall in your lap one day. You have to build it up, talk to people.
Be fair and up front about your rates, start with € 15,- per hour and increase it over time.
If you do work for shit pay people will treat you like shit.

If you quote a decent price people will think you know your stuff and that they're getting their moneys worth. There is nothing that shouts ''i'm a fucking amateur'' more than working under slave wages.

>>2268668
Well first of all, I'm not shit, thank you very much. Secondly, I do have more skills than just constructing a figure, and haven't had concerns over uncanny valley in years. You said a lot of things that aren't applicable to me but I take it as good, it sounds like I might be closer than I thought since I'm past most of those hurdles. I just need to work on my polish. But it's true I shouldn't have bothered comparing myself, especially considering I made several posts earlier ITT telling someone else not to focus on that, so thanks for the reality check there.

>>2268725
Noah can't draw figures and there are plenty of people superior to him in that on here.

>>2268766
>figures

So? He's an enviromental artist. Even then his figures aren't terrible.

He gets payed to make creative and atmospheric enviroments which is what he does. Of course its subjective but I think he's pretty good in that regard.

>>2268770
> Even then his figures aren't terrible.
he literally takes a photo of himself and paints on top of it

when he can't get away with it his figures look like it was painted by a 14 year old girl off DA except the 13 year old can do better.

My case in point, Noah, people are better than you at character art.

>>2268772
Forgot my picture.

>>2268772
>cherry picking part of my comment

Yes, he isn't the best at figures. I admit that, however he does enviromental art which he is good at and is his main thing.

Even then, so what? It's all about the outcome at the end of the day and the figures aren't even that bad.

>>2268774
>at the end of the day and the figures aren't even that bad.
Ahahaha man you sure know how to tell jokes, Noah!

>>2268775
Literally what's wrong with /ic/. Just shitposting central and cherry picking comments.

>>2268725
>Noah is by no means the best artist ever but he is certainly really skillful. I doubt pretty much anyone on /ic/ is actually as good as him.

this is what the average /ic/ retard actually believes. jesus fucking christ.

>>2268779
Most people on /ic/ aren't even that good. They sling criticism but never post there actual work.

Some people are actually good on /ic/ but they are far and few between. If you were that good you would be working in the industry and since your not you aren't.

>>2268780
Most people on /ic/ aren't even that good at grammar.
>see your post

>>2268783
>Literal shitposting

Thanks for proving my point anon.

>>2268780
>If you were that good you would be working in the industry and since your not you aren't.

this is what the average /ic/ retard actually believes. jesus fucking christ.

there's people who suck total dick working in the industry, and there's people who are pretty damn good struggling to get in. working in the industry means absolutely nothing.

>>2268785
The only way they get in is through networking or connections.

You don't have an excuse, anything to deflect the fact that most people are shit amirite? Kek, stay salty m8 :^)

>>2268784

I'm only trying to help you. Imagine you sending in a cover letter to Activision Blizzturd Entertainment and it had that level of grammar. No matter how good your art is you ain't never gonna get back a reply.

>>2268787
K

>>2266180
>>I will expect a turn-around of 2-3 weeks per finished piece
>For this I am looking to pay $40 to $80 per finished piece

Ayy

>find out really talented artists are getting really shitty pay for really good work

>meanwhile, I'm making $48/hr doing really rudimentary animations and designs for a company with Fortune 500 clients
>even if I was as good as the artists I look up to, I wouldn't have the time to produce work that good because I'm constantly getting more work that needs to be done
I feel awful. I've been here two years and I'm not proud of anything I've made, but the pay is good and it's my first art job. I work hard on my own, but my professional work is rushed, and everyone tells me it's great and gives me a big check every week, so I go home every night feeling guilty.

I kinda wish I just worked at a gallery or something.

>>2268880
Push through it anon, you've been given a good opportunity to grow, so use it. Just study as much as you can and work on improving, but you'll improve by doing the job you have as well. It'll be okay.
>>2268780
>Most people on /ic/ aren't even that good
Yeah
>If you were that good you would be working in the industry and since your not you aren't.
There are people who have work though, obviously not to the point have not having time to post here but that doesn't automatically mean they don't work in the industry. But like you said, hardly anyone will show art to prove it.

>>2268880
>complaining about having a well paying job doing something most people dream about.

Kek, stop whining faggot.

>>2268951
I don't think people dream about animating the stuff I animate. And my company's house style is kind of awful. But it's my first art job, so I have to deal with making ugly drawings about health insurance or whatever.

>>2268726
>He didn't bullshit
>he just networked
>Networking and the buisness side can help quite a lot if you're not the best artist ever

Thanks for the chuckle buddy.

>>2268706

> I seriously need to find some kind of art community to join before you guys make me mentally ill.

Silly anon. You're here forever.

>>2269042
I doubt get why elitests such as yourself don't seem to understand that you don't need to be the best artist ever to get work. Networking can supplement that.

You just seem like you don't want to accept it because how dare someone not that good be working in the field.

Seriously, get over yourself.

>>2269054

supplement? networking is the only thing that matters lmao.

>>2269054
Say someone does network their ass off, but what about their low level art skills? They're not going to be nailing high wage jobs, those will still go to better artists. So you may get work but if it doesn't pay enough to make a reasonable living w/o working 23 hour days I don't see what good it'll do you.

Like it or not skill matters. Shit artists won't get the upper paying gigs. Noah's art may not be all that impressive compared to his peers (other pros) but it does reach the "professional" level, so he gets work and people pay attention to him.

This networking meme is just giving other plebs the wrong idea. They're going to start thinking they can have shit tier work and get jobs if only they network more. For most people you're going to need art that's pretty good to get attention and have people talk with you. You don't just go up to people and say "hey want to be friends". People online have everyone and their mother trying to befriend them for work. I'm sure they ignore most people, especially people with meh work. I'm not saying to wait until you're god like before trying to talk with people but I also wouldn't have unrealistic expectations about how many new friends in the industry you're going to make with low level work.

Good luck.

>>2269239
Different person here.
So let's also say that someone has gotten their art up fairly well, what would be a good way to do networking? Places like Artstation seem kind of antisocial to me, not a whole lot of back and forth between people, although I guess it can help you get attention. Is online the best way despite how silent it seems or are there better ways?

>>2266180
I'm not great, but I won't do anything near pic related for less than $75. $50 if it's a bulk order maybe.

>>2266283
>implying the artists doing this aren't just going to desaturate porn images and add horns to them

>>2269247
Online? Probably facebook, for better or worse. Join art groups and talk with people, comment on their work, post your own. Go to pros facebooks and comment on their work when they post it. Lots of people come on here an say "network!" then walk away with out putting much thought into it but it's a slow process of commenting on peoples stuff and making sure your posting regularly so people can comment back on yours. (if they ever do) Also making sure your work gets out there, posting to tumblr, instagram, all the places.

For IRL, going to conventions and meeting other artists, ADs, etc in person. Cons can be expensive so I deffo wouldnt do this to much unless you have work worth showing off. But this would probably have the best results if you can meet people irl, make an impression on them and then keep the relationship going via facebook and other social media shit.

Anyway you slice it there isn't really a cut and dry "how to". Just find a community of artists, online or irl, and participate in what their doing. Expect it to take a while before people notice you. If you're willing to put in the time and not give up on something you'll have a pretty good shot of succeeding.

>>2269054
Are you thinking I'm a different anon or something? All I posted was how I found it funny you said Noah didn't bullshit. Don't know where you got all the elitist thing from but whatever you want to argue about is up to you I guess.

>>2268775
Nigger, Bradley has gotten $53,000 from WotC alone in the past three years.
$53K steady from a single client without drawing a figure that ins't just a mood/scale sillouette even ONCE.

I bet your Loomis "studies" haven't made you a single dollar.

>>2268785
If you can't get a job in the industry:
>You're shit as an artist
>You're shit as a human bean
>Both

>drawing smut
>bad
fuck off americunts

>>2269607
And MTG is one of the, if not only, steady clients that can pay that much hiring out for landscape only work. Great he made a bunch of money that you haven't made either. That doesn't make him a demi-god beyond reproach or criticism.

Pretty stupid to tailor your portfolio to a singular thing (landscapes) and limit your client list. Might work out in the short term but long term it's not a great business decision. (as evidenced by his need to start a "school" for money making.) Better hope MTG never falls out of favor.

75% of the work (maybe more) that people get hired for involves characters and a lot of those artists that do characters can also do backgrounds. Everyone on IC thinks once you get the job you're set, people on here only think short term. There are always new people coming up doing fresh shit. If you want to stick around you better not stagnate and do the same tired crap over and over for years.

Good luck.

>>2269788
Anatomy is useless once you're past symbol drawing.
Nobody cares.
Nobody cares if you fuck up a muscle, or draw a limb slightly longer, or even if you photobash.
Nobody cares that the people working at Marvel and DC can barely draw a stylized figure in perspective.
You can work at Blizzard, WotC, and numberless videogame studios without ever drawing a human figure.
You can completely fuck up your anatomy and still make more than the average professionist each month like Sakimi, Kron and numberless fanartists and porn artists.
And lets not even go into the hundreds of artists putting out artbooks and selling-out convention tables every year despite being watered-down amateur versions of Royo, Bisley and Ciruelo.

Unless your one and only goal is Disney's defunct traditional animation studio, perfect anatomy is a waste of time and most probably the thing holding you back from success.
That and your shit personality desu.

I do 3d work.
Recently some guy wanted me to do a complex bust, 3d print it, paint it and for it to be under 100$

I told him to fuck off but it blows my mind how little people think of digital art

>>2270649
>Anatomy is useless once you're past symbol drawing.
You have no clue what you are talking about.

>Nobody cares
>not having the drive to get better for yourself

Looks like someone's not gonna make it

>>2270649
Noah. What the hell artwork are you looking at? lol. You can just look at any game art or entertainment art to see that anatomy is important and the higher skilled more veteran artists have better figures.

You're just moving the goalposts to fit your argument, no one claimed you need "perfect anatomy" but there is a very big difference between good competent anatomy and just passing symbol drawing. People do notice proportion errors, weird anatomy and other shit. Yeah sure you'll get work but for how long and at what level? Backgrounds are easier than figures and new artists know it too. The easier it is to do your job the more people who can do it. As everyone else is getting better figures (and they are, including unknown new artists) you're settling for lower grade work. You'll never get to the upper tier paying jobs because your work won't be on the same level as the other people doing those jobs and it'll show. As AD's, directors, clients get used to seeing the higher level art it'll only be more obvious how far you've fallen behind. Notice how MTG art doesn't look like it did in the 90's anymore?

And like I said, yeah you'll get work not drawing human figures but you're immediately cutting out %50 or more potential client work. Why the fuck would you do that? You're competing against so many other artists for jobs, to keep your current job(s) it doesn't seem bright to limit learning all you can. Infact it seems lazy.

I still haven't heard a single logical explanation why learning the figure to a higher degree is useless. Just that you're lazy or too scared to fail.

Echoing this guy >>2271211 Sounds like you won't make it. Better keep that art camp shit going.

>Implying anyone wasting time in this board is ever gonna make it.

>>2272151
Tru dat mate. tru dat.