/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>2193061
Clavicle shouldn't be showing with arms raised m8 the pectoral muscles overlap the clavicle slightly by the pull of the humorous. The pelvis and the femur looks too stiff try not to crop the fibula and tibia try showing a ground plane m8 its shit.

Because some artists don't chase the paper all their life and do what is more interesting to them

Fucking faggot you will never make it

>>2193061
Artistic integrity

>>2193067
obviously not his work, faggot

>the pelvis and the femur looks too stiff
lol they're bones xD

There are some people who aren't in it for the money but for personal accomplishment and enjoyment

>>2193061
they already have enough exposure and a good reputation from it to keep them going

>>2193069
>>2193074
I understand that people just enjoy art but that doesn't pay the bills or feed you well. How about buying a house, apartment, etc. New computers, programs, and other media you like like books, movies,etc
.>>2193067

Not my art, obv. It belongs to an artist in japan that is getting paid for doing doujins, vns, and ln art.

>>2193076
This. This is how the new employment scenario works. The company knows there are tons of young guys willing to take your place, for the same money, while you at the same time are expecting a rise on your salary, and that´s not going to happen. So it´s up to you to go out and find a higher ground.
It´s only natural for you to do that, and the industry expect that reaction from you. They need you to do that to hire a fresh wave of young artists for the same ammount of money.

>>2193080
Stop drawing anime.

>>2193067
>Clavicle shouldn't be showing with arms raised
wut

>>2193080
>I understand that people just enjoy art but that doesn't pay the bills or feed you well. How about buying a house, apartment, etc. New computers, programs, and other media you like like books, movies,etc
How about not being immersed in consummism. In the first world it's really easy to make money, and even easier to pay the bills if you aren't overspending

Americans I swear

>>2193067
>these are the type of people that give critique on this board

it's like the blind leading the cripple or something

>>2193061
I work freelance and am able to pay my bills.

Of course i have consistent clients i do stuff for, so i'm not completely worried about where my next paycheck is coming from. So it's not quite the same thing.

>>2193116
what kind of stuff do you do

>>2193109
It depends where you live. Places like Ny, miami, LA, etc are not cheap at all.

sorry, not everyone is from some gulag like you.

>>2193142
If you care about your bills either don't get into art, or move somewhere cheaper. It's pretty simple really

>>2193116
How much you v got per mounth? min to max

>>2193111
I dunno, I always find the /ic/ anatomy masters hilarious. It's so obvious they just finished watching the Vilppu or Hampton videos and for a short period of time, they confuse the knowledge of those teachers with their own knowledge. That usually lasts until they draw a figure from imagination.

>>2193086
how well does it actually work? are jobs for younger less experienced artists actually opening up?

>>2193168
This.

I once had someone rip into my picture because the perspective was "all fucked"

It was a 3d render that I had painted over. This idiot was sitting there telling me I need to watch tutorials on perspective. I kind of stopped posting here after that.

>>2193299
So why are you still here?

>>2193299
> I kind of stopped posting here after that

I just had to see what people had to say and I left for 2 years now I'm just back to give criticsm or shitpost on shitposters.

>>2193153
Wow, so now you wonder why he's asking why people jump from industry to free lancing.

From stable income to unstable. Art majors really are fucking retarded

>>2193067
>>2193105
>>2193111
>>2193168

i have the applicable ladybones and i was curious as to if the >>2193067 was right or not, so i snapped some reference pictures and damned if they actually nailed it. i can also confirm that holding the pose while approximating the angle the picture's at is not actually feasible for a human woman to pull off without overbalancing backwards, so they were correct on ground planes too.

i guess we've all learned something today about obscure anatomy facts.

>>2193067
Your doing gods work, I hope you never stop

>>2193330
yeah that's what im asking. I remember this online comic artist who is really good at drawing. Her comic involves those human like cats but in a cartoony style. She was in a gaming company and now she's doing webcomics. Same with Ava's demon.

>>2193073
>>2193105
>>2193111
>>2193168
>>2193299
>>2193305

I wish you were all tripfags so I could hide all the butthurt and shitposting you faggots do

>>2193206

fuck no. the creative industry is saturated like a motherfucker. why do you think govt. is always complaining about lack of STEM graduates? because STEM is actually hard. instead you have a fuckton of mediocre artists and its one of the very few job markets where mediocrity just won't cut it.

you literally have to be "very good" rating to get an entry-level position.

>>2193364
Of course I was right but you faggots are so far up your ass you disregard anything that isn't inscribed from Mark Criley.

>>2193364
>obscure anatomy facts

This is what happens when people blindly copy (whether from life or images) vs actually study anatomy.

If you study the skeleton and muscle attachment points, its pretty obvious this happens when your lift your arms.

>>2193067
dat autism

what is artistic license

what is believability

what is op was using an image to illustrate his point. it wasn't an invitation to give criticism for a piece he didn't do.

>>2193414
for sure. it's amazing how much more quickly you can learn by supplementing practical study with an occasional session of feeling up your own bones and muscles as you move in front of a mirror.

(so long as you know no one's going to walk in on you as you grope yourself.)

>>2193424
>muh style
>muh style
>muh style!

m8 if you post something whatever it is you can bet it'll get nitpicked just because I pointed out the flaws from your favorite weeb shit you get on the defensive and hark muh artistic interpretation of animus.

>>2193439
You're just being an autistic sperg if you can't determine the appropriate times to critique and not critique.

>>2193364
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N

>>2193439
i'm not even that into anime art, and the stuff i like is usually from the 80s or 90s

but nice strawman and basically what >>2193478 said

>>2193067
>raise arms
>can still see my clavicles
Sorry OP's pic triggered you, fatass.

>>2193061
Well op, despite what /ic/ would have people believe, I do think a large number of people who get industry jobs do have aspirations to launch their own projects and not just work studio or desk jobs forever. Personally I have many comics I'd like to make but I've been trying to get work at a studio first to build a better base for myself, and I'm freelancing as I try to prepare for those jobs. However if I get a studio job, I'll still be making plans to start my own project once the timing is right, and I think a lot of artists go into these jobs with the same feelings.

>>2193071
Not even that. Doing other people's work is just boring as fuck. Its fun when you're a scrub but gets old quickly and being able to carefully choose what you want to work on is awesome. Best thing I ever did was take a massive pay cut and get out of what I was doing. Also being salaried means you are always on the clock and it is always crunch time. That will suck the life out of you more than the work itself.

Most of all, all the best jobs like illustrating books tends to be freelance.

>>2193067

I came here to say this, >>2193506
my clavicles are definitely visible when I raise my arms. maybe you should realize that bodies have a large degree of variance, and it has nothing to do with >muh style.

>>2193506
Thanks Mr. Skeletal

>>2193375
most STEM degrees and fields aren't actually that hard, it's just boring and unfulfilling to most people

>>2193364
>>2193424
>>2193439
>>2193168

I think it's just keeping in mind that in the end, details like that are enthusiast-level considerations that don't have very much ground in any plausible professional situation aside from academia, like an anatomy/figure drawing professor.

Always something to be said about knowing yer shit, though. Especially where your passions lie.

>>2193080

I don't think you've done your research all too well. Making a living from freelance isn't terribly difficult, considering that your work fulfills a need, you have a thimble's worth of social grace, and you get your work in on time.

I mean judging from personal experience, most freelancers I know make more than people who have studio jobs - given, you have to cover your own health insurance, manage your own time, and learn to market yourself somehow.

I'm in the same boat as >>2193116, though. I've secured three larger clients, so it's a bit easier on me than it was when I was starting out.

>>2193522
>>2193527

There's pros and cons to each. I'm starting to build up some work to weasel into a studio when I can - freelancing has been fun as all hell, but working towards a greater project, with other artists to learn from, and having an AD with even a smidge of interest in your improving sounds like it could be lovely. Also, an obvious delineation between "this is your professional work time" and "this is your free time" sounds nice, but that's more about my fault in not being able to separate working time from personal time.

I'm also pretty sure that if, up until now, I had been in a studio, then I'd be looking at freelance with the same amount of romanticism. c'est la vie.

>>2193364
the sternal head of the clavical is not visible in OP's pic tho?? is that what everyone is getting up over, because if so you guys are... OH, it'S THE STRAND OF HAIR, you guys are seriously gettin tripped up over a strand of hair, hol on, i'mma set all this shit straight after i get this thing done

>>2193556
this little bit is what they're all fighting about, dude. see how it's an unbroken line from the jugular notch out? that's not technically how the bones involved work.

>>2193565
How would you draw it then?

>>2193554
this is nice, but i'd like to see a bit more tonal contrast, maybe in the foreground

>>2193535
>>2193506
any chance you guys are gonna post specific pics? idgaf about 'proof' or whatever, just curious about the (presumably) male's broader clavicle-shoulder-torso differs.

i'd look up pics for reference on my own, but the specific pectoral muscle push only really is a factor when you're reaching both up and behind you, and 'men reaching up and behind' isn't exactly rewarding me with a wealth of results.

>>2193330
You can't have the cake and eat it too. Don't pretend to live a life full of luxuries if you want to enjoy what to do

Why are americans so entitled? Can't you grasp the idea of being happy doing what you love? Would not being able to buy unnecessary stuff ruin your life?

>>2193061
>Why is it that there are artists that were in industries and guaranteed money leave to become free lancers or work on personal projects with no guarantee on success?

As someone who's worked in both arenas, I suspect it's because working in-house can be VERY demanding. "Crunch time" is a reality in pretty much every game studio, and you can expect to work 12 hours a day (at least), 7 days a week, for months and months on end (no overtime pay since you're on salary) to meet arbitrary deadlines set by management who knows that they can exploit the talent they employ because there's a long line of people who want your job. The game industry is very exploitative, so going freelance is appealing.

That said, I much prefer to work in-house.

>>2193576
honestly? i wouldn't bother. to the average viewer it looks fine, and they ain't gonna be staring at her collarbones anyways. it would only really need fixing if you knew it was going to be under the scrutiny of masters of the craft, and it's not like you'd ever submit a subject like this to get your arc scholarship or your master's at risd or whatever.

as for fixing it, keep the sternum dip, remove the line and highlight meant to convey the clavicle bone that isn't actually there, and start it up again about where her necklace crosses the line where the top of the pectoral starts getting pushed out. also, bulk up the almost non-existent trapezius a little.

the clavicle is actually small potatoes compared the problem with the pose. if you're dead set on keeping that angle, she'd need to be on her knees to keep from tipping over backwards (as, i suspect, the reference image the artist used probably was.)

>>2193596
>if you're dead set on keeping that angle, she'd need to be on her knees to keep from tipping over backwards

what are you smoking on anon?

is just a girl standing up rearranging her hair

>>2193595
not to mention, at least as far as a game is concerned, you are disposable as part of the art team unless you are a major part of the staff. its not uncommon to see a fuck load of art guys let go the moment game assets are done if the studio isnt large enough.

>>2193611
nah. it's a little confusing because her ribcage isn't conveyed very well. to be at the point where we'd see that little of her trapezius and her bellybutton would be set so high, the angle she's raised her upper torso to has to be fairly dramatic - enough that to reliably stay standing she'd need to either thrust her hips and pelvis back to counterbalance and steady her planter leg a la the lady in this picture is doing (and anime titties is not) or be kneeling.

>>2193554
I was in a different field (advertising related design work) and it just wasn't for me. I'd say in general, studio work has benefits like the steady paycheck, connections, access to colleagues and so on that benefited me greatly, but it leaves you with nothing you feel good about putting in a portfolio. I've heard the same from various people in other fields. Graphic designers, game designers at larger studios like EA, and disney related animators specifically,

It really depends entirely on what you're doing and while going outside your comfort zone to improve or take on shit that isn't your thing can be good, being forced to do shit you give no fucks about or be fired isn't. Some faggot would probably say something about building discipline and character, but all it does is make you angry and depressed. Fuck that noise.

Not all studios are bad about taking on shit work, but the politics are annoying and the sheer tastelessness and basic bitch quality to most artists gets old fast. You come expecting raunchy perverts and get tumblr.

>>2193061
Why are all anime artists so bad.

>>2193656
Post your work

>>2193656
Because they don't know how to be tasteful.

>>2193654
You're thinking too much. Art isn't for you.

>>2193675
he's right though

>>2193585
>why are Americans so entitled?
What does race or nationality have to do with this?

>>2193656
>>2193439
>>2193663

G8, b8, m8. I r8 8/8.

>>2193678
I'm also right.

>>2193675
made me chuckle. but nah, like i said, it's something people won't generally notice unless they've been specifically trained to notice it, and the untrained are even less inclined when there's big titties to stare at instead.

>>2193371
>ironically butthurt himself

the reason why I stopped posting is because most of you faggots are deviatart tier bullshit that doesn't even read the fucking sticky. I only come back to help every now and then and even then most of you faggots are delusional as fuck.

>>2193094
why not? it sells. you think you're so good, post your art or GTFO

>>2193996
Twilight sold too. So did 50 Shades of Grey. Does that mean they are quality?

>>2193999
your "quality" does not equal the public masses' tastes. if it sells, that means people generally like it, regardless of their shit taste.

shove your idealism and judgement somewhere else. for all we know, you're probably the one with shit tastes.

>>2194004
Good quality in general never equals the public masses tastes because the masses generally have shit taste. All you have to do is hit the right A, B, C list and it will sell to the massive bottom line. No real creativity needed. That's why trashy anime sells. It's a product that doesn't promote creativity. Weebs have even worse taste than normalfags.

>>2193999
>Twilight sold too. So did 50 Shades of Grey
>baby's first logical fallacy
As Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Conrad, Dickens, Fitzgerald etc. What's your point?
Twilight target audience is teenage girls.
50 Shades of Grey target audience is horny girls with BDSM fetish

>>2194018
this guy >>2194009 gets it. "trashy anime" might be shit to you, but your taste mean nothing to the thousands of animators working on anime, not to mention the millions of anime fans scattered across the globe. as long as there exists a market for it, especially a large one, people will keep selling it. and that applies to anything else.

now let's all see how much your creativity and good tastes have earned you, kid. has it gotten you anywhere?

--oh, wait.

>>2193364
Let's see.
Here my clavicle. The line is much more visible in pose like on OP pic than your.

>>2194048
You're not raising your arm, raise your arm and watch what happens.

>>2194051
>>2194048
Get a room you two.

>>2193675
I guess the point of art is to ignorantly layout your lines and have some neckbeards masturbate over it no matter what.

>>2193364
keep up this devotion to understand, it'll take you places

>no one even reads what OP was originally asking

I hope OP learnt something from this.

NEVER start a thread on /ic/ with an anime drawing, or figure drawing in general. Hell, avoid starting threads with any artwork in general unless the topic is directly related to it. This board is filled to the brim with incredibly insecure noobs who can not resist derailing threads talking about the most insignificant bullshit to prove how much they've learnt from those Vilppu lessons they just finished watching.

>>2194373
Oh hey, putting words in my mouth. Art has more to do with conveying emotion or feeling rather than calculating formulas, not ignorance.

>>2193578
Look more closely at OP's pic. The torso is at a slight angle. Plus some of the clavicle is actually obscured by muscles in the drawing. So anon's initial post is bullshit anyways. AND even if the torso was a full on front view, only the furthest ends would be obscured.

>>2194648
And anime art is full of emotions, right? Smiley face, pouty face, stoic face, crying babby women, girl holding thing while the wind blows, oh so much to choose from in the anime medium!

Body and facial expression doesn't require anatomical knowledge at all! Just copy from the emojis on your phone and it's good enough.

>>2194926
I didn't say that either. Calm your autismo tits and draw.

>>2193554
Sprias is it true you read the shit out of Art Spirit and found it useful? I've only flicked through a friend's copy but all I saw was an experienced artist reminiscing and theorising. Nothing wrong with that, I just thought you were meant to discover such things by doing your own art yknow.

>>2194939
>I didn't say that either.
It's follows your philosophy. A smiley face would be good enough according to you.

>Art has more to do with conveying emotion or feeling rather than calculating formulas

>>2193554
painting like that make me want ur boi pussi son give it here

>>2194373
>>2194926
>>2195012
Some people are obsessed with the notion of realism in art and think that anything stylized is objectively inferior. You typically see this a lot on /pol/, white supremacists arguing that every non-white culture's art is shit because it doesn't attempt to be photo-realistic.

yes, i'm talking about you.

>>2195394
>You typically see this a lot on /pol/
it's no different here, guy. are you new?

>>2195394
>Some people are obsessed with the notion of realism in art and think that anything stylized is objectively inferior.
>You typically see this a lot on /pol/

I could substitute a few words in your sentence and describe literally every board on this god forsaken site.

>/fit/ are obsessed with SS/SL, all other beginner training programs are inferior.
>/o/ are obsessed with masculinity, anyone who openly admits they drive a (insert /o/ meme here)
>/int/ are obsessed with you being white or not, anyone who think multiculturalism is a good thing will be memed to death with SWEDEN YES.

tl;dr lurk more before you post you new shit

>>2195394
>Some people are obsessed with the notion of realism in art and think that anything stylized is objectively inferior.
The OP isn't inferior because it's anime, it's inferior because it's a bad drawing.
Most "anime style" drawings just happen to be terrible, though.

>You typically see this a lot on /pol/
Post discarded.

>>2195394
I just want you to know that I agree with you 100%

It's funny because 99% of the people in this thread can't even draw like that ( disregarding what you may think of the 'actual' quality of the drawing).

>>2195394
>Some people are obsessed with the notion of realism in art and think that anything stylized is objectively inferior.
Youthful idealism. /ic/ is full of students and freaks like troll chan.

>>2193061
Why is there OPs who asks if biptiboptiboo?!

>>2193061
This is pretty good art

>>2193577

I can see why. I tried to keep the tones grouped within a limited range to help the mood, but I probably went overboard if it didn't occur to me to mix some dark flecks into the foreground for the sake of depth.

>>2193655

hahaha I see, I see. I naturally tend towards solitude, and so freelance naturally fits that, but it's very hard to balance things that way. I've heard a lot about studio politics and that it's sometimes pretty hard to get things done, but I think having the opportunity to work with other artists on a team is worth that. I mean it's probably that the grass is greener, too, but I can always go back to freelancing if need be.

>>2194974

It's in my top three art books, for sure, and I think it's because it answers a lot of the why in artwork, instead of the how. Nothing about the proper drawing of the forearm, or the simplified muscle masses of it, or even of composing an image, except in that everything you do in a piece should serve an ultimate thing to be said. Find it online and try reading through the first chapter or two - I should also say that it's definitely more my cup of tea, since I lean a lot more towards ~feeling it~.

>>2195089

y-you too.

>>2195518
Dammit trollchan you're still drawing nipples like that they don't sit on the breast like a goddamn cookie or something you kike I'm gonna slap you right int he balls if you draw that shit again.