/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

It's never too late to start OP. I'm twenty-one and came across this digital painting by chance last week, and said to myself that if I don't learn how to draw like that by the time I'm thirty, I'll never be able to live with myself. I am currently unable even to draw stick figures, that's how bad I am. I hit up /ic/, lurked some threads and ordered Keys To Drawing, Perspective Made Easy and Drawing On The Right Side of The Brain. I'm not waiting for them to arrive. The wait is painful.

Saying it's too late to start at age twenty is just a fanciful way of saying you don't have the discipline, motivation or self-esteem to try being bad at something in order to become good at it. It is in no way a reflection of valid logistics.

Good luck OP, I'll see you on the other side.

>>2170476

I got decent in two years, but I threw away pretty much everything else in my life. Not sure if that was a good idea, slow and steady wins the race I think. At the same time growth in art is very proportional to the amount of time invested, age doesn't seem to be much of a factor.

20 is young as fuck. Of course it's not too late.

Your life is already two-thirds over, it's too late to do anything except plan for where you will be buried.

>>2170476
Shut up and start drawing

>>2170476
Well, while drawing itself may not be your forte, you might find yourself applicable in other forms of art like digital art or something like claymation. It's no secret that many people are born with artistic ability, so maybe you're naturally good at one of those art forms. If not well... you'll have to practice A LOT. But don't worry, it's still doable, even if you're crap at everything, naturally.

>>2170476
Without talent chances are pretty low

>>2170476
Been drawing for nearly 4 years. I'd say I'm only starting to get decent.

>>2170522
your poor gens & poor phylosophy r showing, go blame the world :)

>>2170574
Not this shit again.

>>2170476
Well, I have seen people who drew like shit at the beginning of an art class to pretty decent at the end. Just think of art like writing. It's a process.

Yes, kill yourself.
But seriously, it all depends on how much you put into it. Drawing is like weight lifting, you're not going to see your gains unless you commit.

>>2170476
This guy was in his mid to late 20s IIRC

i think its possible
i post some of my work here before. I was going to put more effort when i began my junior year in high school but i was just destroying myself with other subjects, so i had to cool it, but i managed with some profit. right now im going further into my studying.

>>2171092
Survivorship bias. He literally has a talent. Even Bammes students drew worse.

I'm 21 and I made this progress in the span of about 6 months. I mean, I'm certainly not that good yet, and I still have a long way to go, but I'm at a level now that I'm feeling good about some of the things I draw and actually have some confidence. Which makes it less suffering and more actual having fun when I draw. I didn't go as hard as some people do too, I was juggling full time work and took some days off along the way, so if you put yourself to it you could probably outdo my progress easily.

Personally, I think starting at 20 is a pretty good time to start. You're young enough to learn easily, but old enough not to get stuck in the bullshit lots of preteens/teens get in where they don't actually practice effectively and draw the same shitty thing over and over, refusing to be self critical. Deviantart has shown me that some autists can draw for 8 years and get WORSE while deluding themselves that they've come a long way. I think at 20 you've probably got enough self awareness to reflect on what you're doing.

>>2171123
not a very good progression

>>2171123
You're wasting all that in a "gaiz im 12, is it too laet?" thread, but your point about maturity is very true. Some teenagers have discipline and self awareness, but I've seen adults make gains much more quickly and greater fervor.

On a tangent, other than legitimate autism, you really only see cartoonists getting worse as they take simplification too far without actually gaining any skill.

>>2171115
>survivorship bias

That's a pretentious way to say "I'm a quitting quitter who quit".

>>2171136

Sure could be better, but I think I'm getting out a decent amount for what I'm putting in. If you've got any advice / criticism I'm happy to hear it.

>>2171139
I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse that i became more self-aware than others at a young age. On one hand I started learning quicker, but on the other it was due to trauma.

>>2171136
for 6 months, it's pretty impressive

>>2171148
whats impressive?

>>2170476
>>2170476
You can do it OP if you want to. I'm telling you this because I have to believe it myself. I'm an Oldfag and I'm trying to learn to draw. There's just one thing though, you should be doing it because you find it fun and enjoyable. If you are just doing it to gain impressive skills and get a career you should do something else. If you don't enjoy making art, going through all the grind of studying and trying to get better is going to completely destroy your motivation to move forward. If you enjoy drawing and making stuff all that grind and frustration ends up becoming super useful because it's providing you the tools to make something even better and cooler.

>>2171147
It is what it is. I had the awareness but none of the motivation or desire to learn method so I didn't do much with it until now at 25. Loomis and learning poses are like watching paint dry but I can finally tolerate it.

draw at least four hours a day and study above your skill level and you'll be surprised at where you get in maybe even half a year.

>>2171178
>study above your skill level
Please elaborate, do you mean like doing master studies? Do you mean constantly trying stuff you aren't good at?

>>2170476
if you weren't born with the natural talent you probably won't be able to get much better than Proko

>all the Talentposting in this thread

I can't tell if the people who throw that shit around are either distressed at their gains and looking for something besides their own laziness to blame, or pretty good and using it to boost their ego and feel superior.

Knowing /ic/ I'm guessing mostly the former.

>>2171185
thank you anon

>>2170476
16-18 is the best time probably, but asking a question like that basically means that you wouldnt make it even if you'd be 14 now

>>2171123
so youve gotten worse?
the knight and woman on top are way better than those shitty smudgy grayscale mud flabs with poorly constructed (if any construction at all) anatomy and faces.

If you cannot even copy a photo (like Hindenburg's) you know something is wrong

study and do life study, learn from traditional rather to get yoru fundamentals straight

>>2171178
dont listen to this guy, DONT LISTEN TO ANYONE THAT SAYS " study for x amount of hours a day" it doesnt work. dont become a fucking victim of many failed artists because of this. OP what you need to do is change the way you think. art is a big subject and you have to change many things on how you perceive things. spending too many hours on trying to get good, is hopeless. observe, note and experiment, the answers are in front of you. you just have to change the way you think.

>>2171515
why do shitters on /ic/ like to be contrarian so much?
it's not like he got better, but it's not like he got worse either.

the only difference is that he learned how to use photoshop to paint. and that's still a plus, not a minus. (even though it's very meager for 6 months of work)

>all these depressed retards telling OP it's too late

OP, you're still young, you can learn everything, if you really really like art and drawing and painting and creating in general you should do it, if you don't see yourself doing anything else with the same level of passion just do it

I'm not going to read most of /ic/ threads anymore, this place is so shitty now

>>2171585
shit taste, dont give advice ever again.

>>2171593

shit life, don't keep being alive ever again

>>2171601
get upset kid, stay upset.

>>2171630

At least I'm not going to kill myself in less than 5 years.

>>2171630
You're the insecure one, you're the upset one.

>>2171635
>>2171633
>responds
i think we all know who the insecure ones are.

>>2171636

I really didn't give two fucks I just wanted to have fun replying to the guy

>>2171585
>you can learn everything just because I believe in elfland
>uwaaaaa this place is so shitty

>>2171636
>also responding

Let it go.

I remember when I first started it took me like 30 minutes to draw a tiny eye.

Now it only takes a minute to draw a naked body.

>>2170476
You are young and you have time. How about going through the recommended books? Finish at least Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards and then Keys to Drawing by Bert Dodson. Don't be anal about how good you are, just take your time and go through them one by one for a few months. Once you are done, look at what you can do and then you can decide whether this is something you want to pursue further.

People usually either say that if you don't have talent you'll never learn to draw, while the other side will tell you that talent doesn't exist. Look for yourself, do you improve? Forget about the concept, just do the recommended books and see if you improve. If not you still didn't waste much time and you have found a personal answer to nurture vs nature good life experience either way.

Good luck.

>>2170476
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today"
-Winston Churchill

>>2171686
damn

>>2171579
The ones after 6 months look like fucking shit to me, him being able to use hard brushes in photoshop does not change that fact, he did not improve as drawer/painter at all, only got some technical "knowledge" but if he would've known that 6 months ago, his pictures would've looked the same, you see what I am saying?

anyone who tells you that you can't do something on 4chan is a fucking loser and there is a reason they are on 4chan telling people who want the same thing they do that they can't do it is because THEY can't not because YOU can.

just do it, don't let your dreams be dreams. (if we're going to use cancer memes)

seriously, just try your best and see for yourself. If you are asking people if they think you can, clearly you are no confident in yourself. Solution? just try. Nothing is a waste of time, and it's never too late. If you fail, you haven't failed, you've just learned that it isn't for you.

only a fool would think that an attempt isn't worth the effort if it results in failure.

>>2171515

If you seriously think that the February ones are better you're the most delusional fucking contrarian on this board.

>>2171756
>average sect-tier speech
Where I can buy your DVD?

>>2170619
It's b8 don't worry.
>it's not b8

Yes, check my instagram @rosssin you will see my progress and where it comes from

>>2170476

>>2171515
>>2171754

As the guy who originally posted that progression, I think you're right that my construction is weak. I think I've spent too long getting an (amateurish) grasp on painting trying to practice value, and not long enough on construction. Adding sprinkles to shit won't make it any better, and all that. So I do appreciate some honest criticism in that region, since I haven't been able to get it from anyone else.

That said, you're high on your own farts if you think the stuff I started with six months ago is better. I wouldn't take offence to you saying I barely improved, but come on. I'd love to see what hoops you had to jump through to think my February stuff is BETTER. I'm going to assume you said that shit for some exaggerated emphasis.
Also, it seems pretty obvious to me that if I knew what I know now 6 months ago my stuff would look the same. That's kind of how this whole thing works.Your criticism is still really vague, though. "learn your fundamentals" is a throwaway critique that could mean practically anything.

>>2171805
>arguing with retarded 14 year olds on a Croation Genocide Forum

Let it go bruh.

>>2171816

I wasn't trying to argue with him, like I said I don't necessarily think he's wrong once you dig through the shit flinging. That said, seeing as I'm pretty sure the same guy is now flinging shit at me in another unrelated thread, I think he's just a troll.

>>2171115
>Survivorship bias
That could be said about every working professional, and anyone whose ever devoted time towards becoming proficient at any skill since the dawn of time.

1. That does not prove that he has talent.

2. If he does have talent, why hasn't it manifested at all until his mid to late twenties? Literally every kid draws at some point - you'd expect the talented ones to show some promise way earlier in their life.

3. Without first defining talent, your comment and my entire retort are pointless.

>>2171805
Anon, Just ignore him.

>>2171115
>talent

I love this meme xD

>>2171123
Even from the Feb pictures, like the red dress girl, I don't get how one makes the clean coloring and outlines like that. It is a smooth curve and thickness of the curves seem pretty constant.

How is this achieved in digital seetting?

>>2171686

Churchill has the best quotes.

>>2172078
Word

I didn't start seriously start trying to get gud until about two years ago, and I was always a "natural talent" person at art. I'm 21. At the time it felt like I had to re-learn how to draw, I felt so behind half the 16 year olds on deviant-pixlriv or whatever.

You will always be going back to the fundamentals. If one day you suddenly feel discouraged by your lack of ability, take it as a good sign that your self-critique levels have increased. You are seeing mistakes that 6 months ago you would have never caught. Figure out how to fill those gaps in your knowledge, because you will have to do it over and over.

>>2172201
>...and I was always a "natural talent" person at art.
Stop posting useless generic information with the intent of stroking your own ego or impressing people with your "knowledge".

>>2170476
Yoshitoshi ABe started drawing at 19. Pic related. In an interview he said how he got his first mangaka apprenticeship job via some relative. His job was to do lineart and he was horrible at it, got scolded all the time, kept fucking up with the tools (using the same nib for 6 months) etc. generally messing everything up. But he kept at it and started practising on his own time.

I think better example would be appleflinger though.
2007: http://algenpfleger.deviantart.com/art/glowing-67074701
2009: http://algenpfleger.deviantart.com/art/Arten-Daffu-121876769

It's never too late. I've been planning and pondering to start for a few years but that takes you nowhere. Only way to get forward is to start drawing and to keep drawing.

>>2170476
Don't worry too much about it man. I'm 23 and couldn't draw anything 10 months ago. I'm almost done with my year of schooling, and by that time I should be decent enough to get an entry level, low tier, job in the industry. It really isn't hard or impossible. It's more about putting in the effort and time to improve. Don't let fuck faces tell you that it can't be done either. I've come to realize that people on /ic/ don't know shit about self improvement and maybe spend 2 hours a day at most drawing. If you want to be good, you need to devote the majority of your day, every day to it. It's a grind, but after you become familiar with the fundamentals, the learning and improvement becomes easier.

>>2172323
While I don't disagree with the results, I feel that kind of effort comes at the expense of being well rounded. It's what it means when something is your life, but it's also what it means when something is your life, if that makes any sense. You should of course treat it like a job timewise if that's what you want it to be, but when it goes into the realm of obsession, one can easily lose other valuable sensibilities. Honing artistic skill doesn't improve your physical, mental or spiritual development; it just makes you a better artist in a technical sense.

>>2172349

This.

A lot of /ic/ has this absurd idea that if you want to do art you either need to spend like 10 hours a day on practice or don't bother at all. There's no middle ground for those people. No hobby. You need to be some aspiring professional fuckwit who becomes a self imposed hermit to even bother picking up a pencil in the eyes of some on this board.

You can improve with any regular practice. Obviously, if you go full into it and spend basically full time work hours on it you'll get a far faster return, and if you plan to become a professional in a year and a half you'll need that kind of input. But that's not realistic for 90% of people who aren't neets, and there are plenty of people who want to draw but don't want to devote their entire livelyhood to it. So just do what you can. Even if it's two hours a day or something, the people trying to tell you you won't improve with that are fucking stupid and obsessed with some ideal where every artist has a singular obsession with art and art alone, and spends every waking moment trying to perfect their craft.

>>2170476
You're only 20, what do you have to worry about?

I started taking drawing and painting seriously at 24 two years ago. I don't consider myself "good" but I made a lot of headway and I'm well on my way to getting to where I want to be. If you're gonna start, the younger the better.

>>2171123

I think your progression is great man don't listen to these niggers they're just jealous

>>2171182
hey bro he tries okay!? seriously theres nothing wrong with proko mechanically.

>mfw evertime a 20 year old says he's worried he waited too long to get good

Fuck everything about you op.

25 year old fag here, I would sell my dads ball bag to get those 5 years back and spend them wisely.

>>2171123

lmao de-spiration

>>2171112
Honestly I prefer your 2014 stuff.

>The amount of hate for everyone that says anything that resembles an opinion in this thread

>>2171182
>>2173163
Whoa, wait, is something wrong with Proko? /ic/, give me all your opinions now.

>>2173266
He's not bad but he isn't amazing either. Great starter resource. /ic/ likes to shit on anybody that isn't god-tier if you haven't noticed yet.

>>2173266
I think he means that Proko is a good draftsman, but is not a very interesting artist.

Drawing is skill. Anybody can learn how to become more skilled with good teachers and lots of practice.

Why do you want to draw though? Want to make a living? Even retail pays more. Want to create something? You can use 2 months of your retail job savings to hire someone who has been at it for 5-10 years.

>>2170476
It's never too late to start doing anything, it's only harder because all of the naysayers will say nay and you may believe them.

>>2170476
I'm going to refer to this as well
v
>>2172919

I believe thats spot on.

Art and fear are a very concerning matter as far as I see it. Everybody to a degree keeps having the same fears. OP, the one thing I will say is that everybody has their art related worries. Nobody is immune from feeling thats its never enough.

The thing is, this goes beyond art. The worries that you feel too its too late is related to the fact that on some fundemental level you feel too old. Not to get armchair psychologist here, but a lot of us by our early 20s are becoming aware that we will not always have the free time to do anything and devote ourselfs to art. Hell, a lot of us don't even have that privilage even at then, we have to work or devote commit our times to things more important then art.

But beyond those basic needs, a lot of the time I think by our early 20s we have a very concrete and rooted view of ourselfs, mostly because its been drilled to us you become who you are when you are young. You "only" get to learn a language when you are young, or an instrument, or decide to go into the humanities or a STEM field, and doing that after you reach adulthood means farting around for years grinding yourself to learn something. Those that manage to do those things of course are always treated as some of savant Must-have-been-child-genuises that the average person can never reach.

Right now I've been doing art seriously for the last three years. I was 17 when I started, and barring a a few months where I damaged my art, I have just entered my 20th birthday.

And you know what? I still feel the same fears. Its never going to be enough. At first you are going to worry that its too late because everybody is younger then you and you are two or fours years older, so "obviously that means that I'm going to fail". (Part 1)

>>2173306
>Even retail pays more.

Normalfag detected. Being insulated from social anxiety pays for itself.

The superb question of achieving literally anything: How motivated are you?

>>2173381
After that, its always some other bullshit that nags your mind. The progress of yourself or of others, sacrificing social life, sacrificing work, generally the feeling where you are not going any where. A lot of the artists I've come across share some of those fears.

But to end my rambling, the thing I think this falls down to is a few things.

1. Time. Here's a little secret for you. Pretty much all of us worry about time. Either because we think we are wasting it (not progressing as expected), or that we've already wasted it (feeling too old) or whatever.

Here's the thing through: As long as you are alive, its /never/ too late. Go on and google Handprint watercolor. Its a site by a retired engineer iirc that he started in his 60s, and he is still working on it after a decade and so. In that time he went from noob of watercolors to an extremely skilled and knowledgeable artists.

But again, he had the free time and the capital to drop hours on it. A lot of people don't have that luxury. I suspect that a few of you even fear that that luxury time is running out.

Here's the thing through, unless you are on severe poverty, you will most likely have free times. Even if you are forced to work a job or have to attend to a social life, any hours that you have that you are alone you have to choose what you will do with them.

I assure you, you can reach levels that right now may feel impossible for you if you decide that those two hours you can spare each day you will spend on a hobby.

2. Comparison: A lot of it of course comes with comparing yourself. You're going to see all the top rare examples of guys that dropped 16 hours a day or something to get good at an obsene amount

The thing here is that you are looking up to a better artist then you, and you get scared/jealous/amazed or whatever at their work. Worry comes out of that most of the time, because they can do stuff that you want to do that you cant do right now. Part 2

(inkjob I did a year ago)

>>2170476
It entirely depends. You can become quite good in a year or two of intense practice. Like, INTENSE. I'm talking pretty much full time, directed learning and exercise.

But yeah, it depends on how much time you're willing to spend and how "good" you want to get.

>>2173397

Here's another secret. Most of these peope also have the same higher ups that they worship and get worried about. And even those higher up on the scale, they have their same idols or fears as well, as they get older and older until you get to higher ups that are fucking dead.

Again, its /never/ enough. Understand that this is a fear that is common among all artists. There's always going to be somebody who some ideal (younger) artist that can do something you like to do better then you. And in turn, that younger artist has that same fears himselfs because a lot of us are young and inexpirianced and don't have the insight, expiriance or nuance to understand that this is just something that happens to everybody.

Which leads me to three

Ego: I dont mean this in any deragatory way, but I think a lot of us in the end have a problem with the project image of ourselfs.

I talked about image a two posts ago. I think this is relevant. http://markmanson.net/procrastination I recomend that you read this please, because it covers what I want to say in this post perfectly.

Again, there are many fears that artists have, the most common after feeling too old is the feeling that we arent good enough. I mean, shit, a lot of us produce 90% of work that we dont find satisfiable, yet we keep on doing it just for that 10% of the time where we pull out something good.

What you are seing in those before and after progression pics is just the results. What you arent seing is the hundread of hours and thousends of sketches done to reach that end result.

Whatever you do, beyond art even, if you decide to take it seriously, I recomend you fall in love with the progress more then the result.


(These sketches I have produced recently. For a long time, I couldnt for the life of me draw that kind of stylized art that I liked my self. Final secret: A lot of us dont have a damn clue sometimes how we even got as good as we got. Sketches only tell half of the story.)

END

Not sure if OP is still around but wanted to share my progress aswell. I think anyone can become decent in 3-4 years, even without throwing every other aspect of their life out the window.

>>2171123

Going strong, keep at it man

>>2175472
How'd you improve your perspective/environmental pieces? I'm still at babby-tier and it's frustrating.

>>2175537

I wouldn't know what to tell you honestly. Just grinding and failing and trying to fix issues as you spot them. If it's frustrating you are doing things right. Also Scott Robertson!

I started when I was about 19 and did this today(I'm 21 now)

>>2173395
This. And meaningful practice and time put into doing it. Art is also something that atrophies as well. For instance I got really good at figure drawing after attending live sessions for a few months, but since stopping my skill level has regressed to close to what it was before.

>>2173409
Yeah, psychology is probably the biggest factor standing in the way of people making meaningful progress in the art. Whether its procrastination of not really wanting to draw or not allowing themselves time to develop their skills. Truth is unless you really are a god, it really is just the same grind for everybody. How easy or quick that might be depends on the effort you put in, resources available (which in this day and age is practically limitless), etc.

Also your sketches are darn cute!

>>2173381
3edgy5me

>>2175689
Back to the drawing board m8. There's no design in this bad boy. And what are you even selling? 70% of the page is black and nothing is grounded in real life.

Only telling you this because I assume you think this is concept art and what you have needs a lot of work in order to be even part way useable for a game or movie.

>>2176301

dave raposa disagrees, keep being a shitter

>>2176301
>There's no design in this bad boy

That's just factually untrue. You should explain why you dislike the design rather than denying its existence.

>>2171803
That's a nice skull

>>2173279
Im >>2173163 and this is what i meant. Hes like mark crilley, fundamentals and all are nice, but not a single thing of interest

>>2170476
It's never too late anon, all it takes is efficient practice.