/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

if it would be easy, everybody would do it.
it seems you are everybody not making it
or are you?

>>2127623
so you made this thread for... advice?

>>2127623

I think you know in your heart what you need to now.

>>2127633
join the navy?

>>2127634

write a manifesto.

This needs answer needs to be stickied somewhere, because advice threads always come to the exact same answer: Draw. A lot. Every day. Draw, draw, draw, then draw more.

Problems with proportions? Draw.
Problems with perspective? Draw.
Struggle to draw even just a line without hating yourself? DRAW.
Don't like your art? DRAW.
Want to see progress in your work? FUCKING. DRAW.
Lazy piece of shit that never draws anymore? DRAW.
Artist block? DRAW DRAW DRAW.

It literally doesn't matter what you fucking draw, it only matters that you are doing it. Every single day. You are not allowed to go to bed before you draw something. And when that gets easy, fill a whole page with sketches every day. Then 2 pages a day. By the time you are easily filling up 2 pages every day, that entire list above is either gone or getting gone.


Fatties will never get skinny without exercise, buildings will never stand without laying down bricks, and if you can't be bothered to do the one thing that is at the very core of all graphic art, then you will never do anything but suck.

>>2127640
This super hard.
And do not be afraid to go back and study things you've studied before. It is daunting to a lot of artists to admit that they have to go back to basics to learn something the correct way. You either know it or you don't, and if you are trying to cheat your lack of knowledge then don't - go back to square one. You may be drawing full figures but it never hurts to go back and draw basic shapes again.
It scares everyone to think that the months they've spent studying have amounted to less than they anticipated, and they have to dig up old books they thought they were done with and drill them again. And this is where tons of people always quit. But it's this that separates the quitters from the artists.

>>2127640

I don't agree.

>>2127640
>draw
better than doing nothing but by far not the best advice.

>>2127640
Even if I want to learn painting?

>>2127640
good memory is a good perk also.
everything is practical like you said.
gotta find your own motive to keep going.

>>2127640
I wish it was this simple.
But I learned anatomy only when I took sculpting.
I learned how extruding and subdividing works after trying 3D software.
I learned to animate from imagination after I took acting classes.
I learned to composite after taking photography.

Let's not kid ourselves now. Improvement requires deliberately stepping out of the comfort zone.

There are plenty of artists, like sycra or bobmeatbag who keep drawing and drawing everyday, for years, but they remain stuck.

How to move beyond a plateau, is not a simple answer. But certainly not doing to same things that you always do.

>>2127640
see >>2127652

>>2127623
you should post your art if you want any specific advice. but judging from what you said you probably are confused with all the data you're receiving. just like in statistics, too much data will sometimes result in more noise. you need to take things one step at a time.

>>2127623
Practicing every day is key. But not only that, understanding what youre doing wrong and how things work is equally important.

You can draw pictures with lots of light and shadow, but if you don't know how it actually works in the real world (understanding light bounces, gets absorbed into objects, etc) then you might get good at drawing that exact picture. But understanding 'HOW' is just as important as practice.

If you're having problems with perspective then first understand how it works. If you have problems with light and shadow then understand how it works. If you want to draw an engine, understand why those components are there, what purpose do they serve?

Because understanding the 'HOW' in combination with practice= accuracy, plausibility, and ultimately GOOD WORK.

OP. Shut up. Just shut up for a second. Do this:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pqgc7dqMGs
Try that for a few minutes. Then go do Right Brain exercises for a little bit (even use that Betty Edwards book if you can), and THEN try drawing. It should be a little easier and more calming then.

You need to get yourself back to shutting your mind the fuck up. Calm down, breathe, and let shit just fucking happen. So what if it's not a masterpiece for every line you make.

op. i couldnt draw legs, so i started drawing legs 6 hours a day, 7 days a week, for like a month. now i can draw incredibly juicy legs, i know the major shapes that describe angle and become a tool to emphasize the pose. i know the underlying anatomy to the point where it's visually relevant, and i know how to spot and place certain landmarks that define the rhytm of the leg/foot. my hands and arms always somewhat decent, now i just need to figure out the foot, maybe the torso (2-3 months) and then spend 2 or so months focusing on gesture, and the 'flow of the whole figure' so my characters don't look like mannequins with individually drawn and copy-pasted limbs (which they do now). then a couple of months of intense studying of the face/head (since it's incredibly complex and challenging). little over half a year, then i will have caught up on my anatomy and figure drawing skills.

i'm telling you this, not to brag or anything. but because i myself didn't expect 'the grind' to be so literal. i underestimated the importance of sheer, raw mileage. but you wouldn't believe how my legs improved within a single month. it has made me realize i can conquer the world, given enough time.

additionally i've felt the exact same way you've felt, and definitely will at some point in the future. everybody has, and everybody will. it's part of the game. think of the alternative... being one of those eternally deluded scrubs who draw to impress non-artists and make zero to no progress.

hope this helps.

>>2127652
Don't listen to this piece of shit. He's the type of person to say "no" when you suggest a place for lunch, but then when you ask him where, he says "I don't know, you decide."

Drawing is the best advice. If you want to design patterns for industrial textiles, or learn how to make edible arrangements, then by all means, skip the drawing. If you want to be an illustrator or concept artists, then I'll save you some research and tell you what they all have in common: lots, and lots of drawing. An hour of practice before work, drawing at lunch, drawing until bed.

Sure, you have to be self motivated to push yourself, but who in the fuck is ever going to tell a weightlifter that someone can teach him his muscles. Yes, someone can give you advice on weightlifting, but you will never, ever, EVER make any progress until your puny ass actually starts lifting weights. NOTHING will change that. There is literally no other way. You can't read a book and get ripped. You can't watch youtube videos and get ripped. You have. to. draw. Sure, get guidance, inspiration, motivation from those sources, but ultimately it's a set of weights and your own will that will take you there.


>>2127793
Sounds like you have a hard time visualizing three dimensional objects in your head. I would wager that this has more to do with why you struggled to learn those things than simply being unmotivated and lazy like most of the fucks that make these advice threads. You probably have a completely different learning/understanding process than most artists (I say this from working with a lot of struggling artists,) so I would not suggest your path so easily.

>>2127660
Yes. Painting is something you learn after you've mastered drawing to a sufficient degree. Once you know drawing, the painting part is really not very hard. The only thing that's really "hard" about painting is that it takes a lot of time, but it's basically like turning your brain to autopilot.

A painter who cannot draw is worthless.

>>2127660
bumping this

>>2127863
a good drawing goes a long way, but painting is a challenge in itself. there's a lot to learn via painting that drawing doesn't teach you.

>>2127660
Did not see your question earlier, but yes, even if you want to learn painting drawing is still the best advice. I started in traditional, and have been doing digital for the past 10 years or so, and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that if your drawing sucks, your painting will suck.

Learning how to render is actually one of the easier parts of painting. The foundation of your entire image is the initial drawing you put down. If it isn't very good, then no amount of blending or brushstrokes will fix that. One of the most common problems that I've seen struggling artists have is that they have a hard time drawing from imagination. Lots of people draw from photos, and they render really well. Everyone tells them they are good, and they believe it, but as soon as they go to draw a character from imagination, they are thrown into a pit of despair because they struggle with even the most basic pose or facial structure, and they don't understand why.

Like I said in my first post, drawing is the foundation for almost all types of graphic art. It's not just about being able to make recognizable shapes with a pencil, but being able to transcribe a 3D object to a 2D projection, and doing it in an appealing way. Being a good artist is multifaceted, but you cannot be in a situation where you are struggling to draw and still expect yourself to improve overall. The better you can draw, the better your paintings will be.

>>2127879

nope.

>>2127879
I really don't think I can name an artist who can paint really well, but can't draw for shit. Usually, they can draw better than most people here on /ic/

>>2127879
Sure, there are challenges to painting, but compared to drawing it's really easy. Most painters I know do put their brain on autopilot after the drawing is done (and maybe some up-front legwork about chosing colors, light direction etc.)

You can basically learn everything about color theory, values, materials and all that jazz in a month or less.

>>2127640
Drawing doesnt solve all the problems.

>>2127831
>>2127889
>turning your brain to autopilot
That's where I want to end up one day.

I'm cocoon mode atm due to illness for at least the next 12 months and will probably spend a lot of my life housebound on/off so I'm looking to develop hobbies/skills that feel more productive and rewarding than watching tv/gaming.

Should I just spend the next 12 months focusing on drawing or at what stage or skill lvl should I reach in drawing before moving onto painting?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

>>2127919
You can learn painting and drawing simultaneously if just drawing becomes too monotonous for you, nothing wrong with that. The most important part is keeping yourself motivated, even if that sometimes means not taking what is the (theoretically) fastest way to your goals.

Draw until you're satisfied enough with your drawings that you think "dang, this is something that really needs to be colored". Work through books on drawing/figure-drawing/perspective/etc, and actively study things.

Whenever you find you're bad at something, start grinding that thing until you're excellent at it. Most people don't understand this concept, and if they're bad at something, they will try to avoid it rather than levelling up.

Try to actively make studies and go out of your comfort zone.

The act of putting the pen to the paper is valuable only in the sese of building up hand to eye co-ordination and muscle memory.
Everything else is down to studying the theory and how it applies to your current skill level.

That's why a one year program at FZD can have such a huge impact on their students.
The correct knowledge with explanations from teachers and peers on how to apply it as you go along with the program.

Example of why /ic/ has little long term impact on people's progress: Unmotivated Losers.
People Plateau so hard in that group.

>>2127936
Sorry, not everyone here are rich kids. It's not your merit.

>>2127942
I'm not a rich kid either,
With some decent groundwork you can put together their studyplans by analyzing examples of their student work and getting the right books and tutorials.
Excluding my Wacom's I have spent less than 1000$ on getting good enough to be offered work in the industry.
Blaming your lack of progress on outside influences will be your downfall.

>>2127823
gonna need more information. did you draw from books? life? its all confusing on what do it when the answer is just simply "do it"

>>2127958
Post your art.
See? You can't.

Op if youre sticking around I'm gonna scan out just a few pages of the book Art and Fear. It really helps me when I give up on a painting because it looks like shit. We all get to that stage where weve been drawing away for hours and your motivation drops steeply. Just dont let execution get ahead of your vision. Vision and uncertainty are inevitabilities every artist has to face and learn from. You just cant fucking quit.
>>2127818
This. It comes down to just chilling out and not freaking out about the end result but working with the process as it happens. And the end result isnt farthest before you start, the vision is extremely clear. The end result comes halfway through the drawing when you're nervous and anxious and you forgot what the initial idea was that started you drawing.

>>2127919
To continue my exercise analogy, drawing is the equivalent of leading a healthy lifestyle.

If you want to get into long distance running or weightlifting, there are things you will have to learn about each of those specifically, but exercise and a good diet are crucial not just because they allow to maintain your fitness, but because they require discipline. Someone whos very committed to running a marathon is not going to eat fast food and skip workouts 6 times a week.

If you want to see significant improvements in your artistic abilities you will have to have the same mindset. Drawing every day is like eating healthy and exercising. Do it on a daily basis until it is your standard, and not a conscious decision. If you want to learn oil painting, or water color, or digital, then you can begin reading and watching videos and doing research from day one. However, I would not recommend trying to become a marathon runner when you are 50lbs overweight.

Develop the discipline to draw every day. It is much easier to learn a new medium when you are not attached to every single drawing you do. You'll be okay with your mistakes because you will know you can do three more that will be a million times better. You'll recognize difficulty as a challenge, and not as barrier because you have been there.

You can start trying to learn how to paint at any time, just realize that your initial drawing really sets the stage for how far your painting can go.

>>2127936
Bottom left ship. It's nose is out of perspective. Good designs though.
>That's why a one year program at FZD can have such a huge impact on their students.
>The correct knowledge with explanations from teachers and peers on how to apply it as you go along with the program.

I guarantee you that any student that flourishes in one of these programs already draws a lot. People always try to get around drawing, or diminish it's importance, but I don't think I've ever seen a good artist that can't draw.

>>2127973
The inherent hostility of /ic/(4chan) in general is why every single competent draftsman and painter leaves.
I barely post here anymore because of people like you and I have no intention of becoming known as one of those 4chan artists in the industry I can choose to prove you wrong while risking my reputation as a professional or I can tell you to either take my advice or not.
Not that complicated is it now?

>>2127995
Have you seen the before and afters of FZD students? Also you are critiqueing a Feng Zhu piece. I just posted it as an example since it was related to him.

>>2128041
> why every single competent draftsman and painter leaves.

Maybe there are very competent/famous draftsmen/artists here, how would we know? If you were one, would you want everybody to know you're hanging out on /ic/? I certainly would not!

>>2128060
thats exactly the point I was making with my post,
I guess to clarify, They are not posting their work here. Is that clear enough to fit into your mailbox?

>>2128072
That wasn't what you said. But sure.

Don't be an artist. The art world is unpleasant and totally rigged. Artists are also often quite mean and spiteful creations, incredibly trendy and always looking to ruin it for someone else. Often the really good people make next to no money and are lucky their art gets saved from a skip when they're dead.

Play an instrument, it's so much more satisfying.

>>2128422
What movie is OP pic?

>>2127623

I'm just a random nobody on the internet, but it sounds like you have two main problems. You don't know who you are, and you don't know what you want.

Those two things will change throughout your life, but you'll feel more grounded if you try to understand those things. Go out and do something different and new (join a club, go to a museum, etc). Stop watching tuts for a while, and look back through all your drawings. What do you like about them? What do you like about the art you like? Why do you like it? What do those preferences say about you? What do you want out of art? Do you want to tell stories, express yourself, etc? If you can come up with even crappy non-answers for these questions, you'll have more perspective and a better sense of where you're going.

Also, scribble. Scribble drawing is a great way to get out of 'need permission/justification'. You gotta figure out why YOU draw to really learn from how OTHERS draw.

>>2128441
here's the full image from Tate's archive

If this is a help me thread can you guys help me? A while ago I had planned to go to Ringling College of Art and Design. I was excited of course. But then I was shown the tuition. It was ridiculous. It hurts too because of all the stuff they showed off but I wasn't prepared for 90 k debt.

So I'm planning on staying home and my parents want me to get a bachelors but at the same time im looking to improve. Is there any classes I can take? Tips on becoming a freelancer etc?

This is the only thing I have found and it helped me decide not to go.

https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9

>>2128441
oh , though you meant mine. Léon: The Professional, why is there some great significance?

>>2127633
das sinkende schiff

>>2128543

>>2128544

>>2127831

"just draw" is advice, but it's far from the best advice. It's useful in the right mindset.

There are people who "just draw" for years and don't improve. Perfect examples in the sonic and pony autists who draw the same thing over and over.

You need to draw, but you also need to think, and be self critical. If you 'just draw' without any aim, direction or reflection, you'll just get really damn good at drawing badly.

If you realize you're bad at hands, and draw 100 hands to try and improve, that's one thing. If you realize you like drawing sanic, and draw 100 sanics, all basically exactly the same, that's another.

>>2127623
guess u might have to resort to drawing for fun, unless u never enjoyed it in the first place

enjoy yourself, be your own person, express something

>>2127958

Oh god is that a paint over by a FZD instructor? It completely changes the entire environment haha.

>>2128631
tell that to the geeks who only wanna jerk off and play da vidya