/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Third time's the charm, pls crit. Not sure if the quality's the same since im now uploading from my phone but here it is.

Drawing tanks as a way to practice my perspective. I think I fucked up. Eh, first time drawing this kind of thing seriously.

>>2124125
Chicken scratchy and overall pretty bad. You should still be doing gestures, after that block in the overall shapes. Adding details like the tribe shit is long in the distance still if you ever want to git gud. Be humble and start again at the basics. Vilppu or Hampton videos are very helpful.

>>2124155
Ty anon

>>2124155
Also, if i do study gestures and anatomy and shit, would it be better for me to start with pencil and paper and not a tablet? Or does that not make the slightest difference

Some pixel art.

>>2124166
doesnt really matter what tools youre using anon

some figure drawings from imagination.

>>2124125
Here you go. It's a 30-minute hack job which was more for my own warm-up benefit, but it should help.
Start with a gesture. That's how it's usually done. It helps with the weight balance of the figure. This is the leftmost example.
You can lay down a sillhouette, as well. That's the middle one. This is a technique advocated by Bammes.
Then, you lay in the actual figure with anatomy and what-have-you.
Details come later.

Your problems:
1. gesture
2. construction (perspective)
3. anatomy
4. line quality

Take all of this with a grain of salt, though. I'm pretty shit.

>>2124149
Ehhh. I'll try aircraft next.

>>2124228
I think you are drawing your cubes wrong.

>>2124228
Try downloading some in sketchup, and practicing different angles, getting a sense of the shapes, and then try reference images. https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search.html?q=tank&rsi=sbis&backendClass=entity

>>2124221
:0
Ty based anon.

>>2124231
I'll practice more cubes.

>>2124236
Thanks for the suggestion man, but my pc can't handle sketchup. I'll look on internet reference of cubes in other angles.

But does it looks that bad and that off?

>>2124247
I found the vid that explain why its wrong.

about 05:50 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uEtdDvK6Xo

>>2124251
I'll study this video. Thanks for showing me this.

This is my first drawing.
Well, not my first, I have doodled before but I don't draw. I would like to start doing this as a hobby, maybe improving my skills would benefit me in designing websites.

>>2124253
I wasn't trying to catch vader's exact image, tried to do my own thing with him.

Still warming up. What for? Who the fuck knows. I lose myself in this stuff way too often.

Painter is a really good piece of software.

>>2124258
Not free im guessing?

>>2124255
All you did was shorten the breadth of his helmet.

(and screw up the perspective on his mask but you'll figure that kind of stuff out soon enough).

>>2124255
sure you were ....

>>2124260
Free if you know where to get it.
Search for Corel Painter 2015 on any torrent site.

I am confused. Do you learn anatomy before or after mannequization of the human body? I thought I was drawing it decently before, watching half vilppu videos as well as other influences. But as Im learning more about the spine, rib cage, clavicle, scapula, Humerus, radius and ulna, etc. My view the mannequin changes, and I think more about accuracy, and all of a sudden, that loomis skeleton makes more sense. I needed to learn about bone anatomy and constructing it before I could place the muscles on it like in the hampton vid, cause before, I was more focus on capturing the overall volume.

Figure drawing is so cryptic.

How I improve my drawings from imagination?

>>2124277
By drawing hundrets of hours form reference, i.e. studies and figure drawings.
You don't just magically make up new knowledge unless you look and absorb something new.

>>2124277
>1. Draw from reference
>2. Analyze reference
>3. Try to draw reference from imagination
>4. Fail terribly
>5. Repeat 1-3 until 4 is overcome

The most important step is analyzing the reference, just copying will you get you good at copying.

Its really that simple.

>>2124267
The mannequin is what you put the anatomy on. However, the mannequin is also part of the anatomy.
That said, I believe you must first know what to carve that anatomy into. So, study the mannequin first.
With time, the mannequin won't even matter.

>>2124267
If I understand Vilppu correctly (someone correct me if I'm wrong), the process is basically:
1. Understand the gesture/action of the figure
2. Understand the elements of form (sphere, cube, cylinder), first each one by itself, then interacting with each other. You can also learn how light interacts with these forms while here, though Vilppu waits until later to discuss light
3. Learn anatomical landmarks and anatomy
4. Use the elemental forms to construct the body/bones/muscles etc. this is where things begin to come together
5. The last step is to understand lighting and tone, go back to the elemental forms and study how light interacts with them (if you haven't done it already), then simply apply that to the anatomical constructions.
6. Put everything together: gesture + form + anatomy + lighting
7. Do generic weeb shit instead of something meaningful and enduring with your new found skills (because its whats marketable, sadly)
8. Literally profit
OR
7. Do meaningful and enduring shit
8. Starve.

Is this how we use reilly method?

>>2124281
I know it's a pretty dumb question, but how exactly I analyze the reference?

>>2124282
>>2124286
sugoi, thanks for the detail replies /ic/. Basically, What I have gather from that is that you combine anatomy with the form you have. Carving? This is bit confusing, I get how you carve the anatomy for vilppu, but for hampton, you're adding it on. Not sure if it was good idea watching both courses at the same time, but it did help me. Really, I was stuck in the hampton vid when he starts to add the pecs, traps, etc on the box and cylinder, I guess because my mannequin was not accurate enough. Hampton really is hard, if you're not an expert at construction. So my goal was just to be able to add those muscles upon bone. Everytime I draw form of the figure, and especially studying anatomy, my construction deteriorates a little, so I always need to be practicing construction and perspective on shit.

>With time, the mannequin won't even matter.
Omoshiroi, I wonder what you mean by this

Daijobu anon, I wont draw generic weeb porn, I just want to one day draw kek worthy comics

>>2124298
Hampton also carves it away. Pay more attention.

I want a bit of advice in the next pics because with these I'm getting out of my zone of comfort, and any advice is good advice, even though this board is demoralizing as fuck.

Second one. In this one I just started a line and saw where that took me. I wasn't paying much attention and that's why the hand looks like shit.

In this one I'm trying something new. Also I just realized I forgot to shade the little cloth she has on her legs. i guess I'' get to that while yu guys help me with advice.

This contour practices are done within 1 or 2 minutes, (intentionally, to practice the line of action) and sorry if there are some repeated but I did each individually and then threw them altogether.

>>2124312
These are pretty bad.

>>2124318
Well, thanks? How can I improve them?

>>2124322
By practicing gesture instead. It's just my personal preference but I don't agree with using line of action because it can be hard to locate on many poses correctly. The trade-off of honing gesture will pay off in the long run.

Learn gesture and don't waste your time copying contour of anatomy and drapery; instead learn drapery and anatomy formally then when you get good at gesture you can incorporate anatomy and drapery into your quick sketches. Practice from hundreds of photos and leave the pixellovely timer alone for now.

>>2124325
No that was helpful. Thanks for the advice. Any words on the other pics I posted?

>>2124329
*Now

I am rather new to to drawing, I have all the time of the day everyday of the year, to do what I want.( I am So how much time should I set into drawing? Currently I have been doing one hour a day.

>>2124336
(I am unable to work)*

>>2124294
Its not a dumb question, but the answer is difficult to put into words. You need to first work on construction, or what everyone here calls "fundamentals" so that you can "see" correctly. "Seeing correctly" means you can break down an image into its elemental forms and understand how those forms are put together. You can only do this when you have an intimate knowledge of said forms (sphere, cube, cylinder).

Follow this first: >>2124286 (I also posted this)

The point is, you must understand construction before you try anything from imagination. This is obvious but people are lazy and tend to ignore it. Once you understand construction, analysis becomes wordless and easy, you'll be able to "see" the forms interacting. From there its just a matter of practice to be able to keep the forms in your head and then manipulate them as you wish and then put that on to paper. It is at this point that you use references to build a mental library of images that you can reuse over and over.

That's all there is to it. There are no shortcuts, only worn-out pencils.

>>2124336
This is a silly question. If you have all the time in the world, spend as much time as you can take. i.e Keep drawing until you get exhausted/bodily functions intervene

Also if you are rationing time for art despite having that much free time, you obviously aren't enjoying it and should reconsider your priorities (it makes no sense to continue something you don't enjoy, unless you are planning on making money from it, and even then, there better ways to make money than art).

>>2124307
You shouldn't even be approaching rendering at this stage. You have absolutely no fundamental knowledge.

>>2124309
The utter lack of line quality (stabilized chicken scratches?) and anatomical knowledge ruins it more than the botched hand. Is she an amputee?

>>2124310
Again, shouldn't even be approaching rendering.

I stalked you on dA and I'm curious what books you've even opened so far.
Refer to the sticky.

>>2124298
>With time, the mannequin won't even matter.
He means eventually the mannequin will be inside your head and you'll be able to manipulate it using your imagination alone. You won't need a physical mannequin then.
>I always need to be practicing construction >and perspective on shit
Yes. You don't stop walking because you learned to drive.

I don't know much about Hampton but its best to shop around and then stick with one method. Most processes are only arbitrary anyway and only serve to eliminate the block from mind to paper as quickly and easily as possible. Pick one and stick with it until it becomes automatic.

>>2124367
I read the Loomis one and I read this one called Figure drawing for all it's worth. I imagined your answers since even though I'm only a beginner I am understandig a lot that is being said to me. Demoralizing, but thanks for the comments anyway. Altough, you aren't really helping when you say "you suck". Rather, you should tell me what should I be doing, what exactly should I be practicing.

>>2124379
>what I should be doing
But he did, he sent you to the sticky.
You're not going to get a better reply at your level. And getting defensive ain't going to help you either
In fact, most people don't even reply to such obvious beginners because they know that until you get past the delusion phase, you're going to resist any and all advice.
You should appreciate someone even stopped, scrolled to your post and took precious time out of their day for you.

>>2124379
>Rather, you should tell me what should I be doing, what exactly should I be practicing.

Why? You wanted critique, he gave it to you. Why would he spoon-feed you everything? There is info on the sticky, online, and in books. He doesn't need to tell you anything, its already out there.

>>2124387
Thanks for the comments.
I want you to know that even if your words are, as said earlier, demoralizing, I appreciate them. I am studying the sticky yet again, and pretty much starting from scratch again. You might think that I don't accept advice or that I'm in the stage where I think i gut gud even if I didn't, but I'm really not. I know I suck, I know I should practice more, and I really am practicing more.
Those drawings I showed you are nothing more than drawing made for fun.
Thanks anyway, Let's see if I come back to this board, as I usually do every few weeks.

I actualy tried to construct the pose before getting into the details this time but it ended up kinda half-assed. Pretty sure this pic will look much worse as soon as im sober.

>>2124521
pls stop

>>2124525
well ok then, since it bothers you so much, I stop posting my garbage. Back to good old lurking and dreaming.

I found some neat tutorials for beginners!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXGkT6aFAn4

>>2124532
Don't be an overly dramatic bitch. Read the sticky.

posting my garbage

>>2124555
Not trying to be, I've got my fair share of advice.
Nice trips by the way.

>>2124540
those American hands.

>>2124540
thats not funny. Everytime I see painfully bad art, I fear that all my already bad beginner progress will start to reverse, like Im taking in bad influence.

>>2124258
anon pls tell me what brush is that, I just got painter

>>2124540
I can't

>>2124292
Anyone?

Don't tell me it isn't beautiful

can someone give me some blue-lines telling me where i went wrong in the mid section? I know the head is fucked but i'm more concerned with how the torso connects with the legs.

>>2124715
Can't exactly help you since there is no defining form to tell us what the pelvis or the ribcage are supposed to be doing. Are they in alignment? Are they twisted? It seems like the ribcage might be twisted off the axis the pelvis is on but it's really unclear at the moment. That line on the left, is that to denote an arm or the outside of the torso?

>>2124715
Don't draw outlines anon, draw forms. Do that first, then come back and ask for help. If you don't understand what I am saying when I say draw forms grab some fundamental art books and start studying. They are in the sticky or in the book thread you can find in the catalog of this board.

>>2124661
It's "Real 2B Pencil."

>>2124717
>>2124718
Sometimes you hate to feel like you need the basics, even after returning to trying to get better at art, but it's exactly what you need. Thanks.

i got some stuff

my obstacle with painting is where to i go from here, i can't thing of how to do something without outlining the features
what do?~?~?~

more shit by me

A gift for a friend of her OC. I'm usually not very proud but this is the best I've done for her. So be critical since I want to improve on this before I give it away

Hello /ic/,
did as best as I could in 30 minutes but foreshortening is still a challenging concept for me as far as where I should put the lines to help lead the eyes. It's also difficult for me to draw hands and other body parts smaller and I honestly have no clue where to begin figuring this out. inb4 fundamentals.

are these faces okay

>>2124885
Dont focus on details so much. Start with basic shapes and forms.

>>2124899
No. I feel some kind of stile, but you lack drawing skills/

>>2124859
First Im a bginner and this is probably better than what I can draw but just some observations.

if those floating things are the light sources I think you need to make the values lighter. Also Im not sure what kind of look youre going for but the painting in general feels unfinished

>>2124905
what kind of skills?

>>2124910
Not that anon, but you lack most draftsmanship skills like construction and perspective.

>>2124899
These are actually pretty lovely. I can never get to be so loose and expressive. Like other anons said though, construction would help, especially in the open mouth pose. Keep it up anon, don't lose this expressiveness if you intend to study the face planes.

>>2124885
You need to draw from life, the picture tells you where to place lines, just try to understand where they should placed relative to one another.
Nobody ever really gets foreshortenting off the bat though

>>2124910
drawing skills mostly

>>2124885
It's a nice attempt, but yeah, fundamentals.
It's good that you know what the problem is.
But no, really, I like it.

So I've been drawing since I was 13... but after a very serious case of depression, i stop until I was 23. Now I'm slowly pulling myself out of it, working out and just trying to be more confident in myself. But I'm super behind. I missed out on 10 years of progress I could of made and nothing I do can fix that so I kick myself every day because of it. Now I'm trying to get better at drawing.

I'm very bad at the basics so I told myself I'm going to try and figure draw for at least one hour as soon as I work out.

So here is my first attempt at 30 second gesture drawings for 1 hour. I really don't understand gesture at all, I've had some figure drawing teachers tell me it's about "searching" or they tell me to "search more" but I guess gesture is something I have to figure out on my own.

I would love some critque on my first attempt, I'll be doing this everyday until I see some improvement. I'm also going to try and draw things when I go outside, even though i get embarrassed and still dont really know how to do that.

What went wrong? I really suck at faces, I think this was a fluke.

my first post in this month, thought guys?

>>2125026
another one

>>2124995
Try using a softer pencil, use less lines, use thicker lines for emphasizing weight instead of multiple lines.

Do not copy the model, analyze the model. Try just looking at the model for 30-60 secs, then draw the gesture from memory. You'll be surprised at how quickly you can improve by doing this.

>>2124995
Look for "gesture" on youtube, proko's, I believe, is really good for beginners, look up "new masters academy", they have various masters doing figures exercises so you can see what result you're looking for. Don't think about it like 10 years of missed practice, it's like beating yourself over the fact that you didn't hold the pen under master since you could crawl. You're living right here and right now and this moment you know what you want, so strife for it.

Practice practice practice

>>2125042
>Do not copy the model, analyze the model. Try just looking at the model for 30-60 secs, then draw the gesture from memory. You'll be surprised at how quickly you can improve by doing this.
Not him, but Where did you hear or learn this? Just curious, cause I never heard this suggestion before and it sounds pretty good. Any other Figure drawing advice? Im practicing construction and anatomy.

How about I fix that orientation

what'd ya think?

>>2125042
>ss lines, use thicker lines for emphasizing weight instead of multiple lines.
>Do not copy the model, analyze the model. Try just looking at the model for 30-60 sec

well these are 30 second gestures, so if i look for 30 seconds, i'll be on to the next one

Lineweight has always been a problem for me, I even tried to do these at 25.5% zoom, because I also have a problem with how close I work to the canvas.

If you have anything else for me to look at while I do these daily 1hr 30 sec gestures lemme know.


>>2125045
thats who i've been watching. Watched his "How to Draw Gesture" Video. Even though it's an old video. He says ( at the time ) that he'll make a another video later, so to try out gesturing until he uploads it.

So I figured I'll try and figure out how to gesture for a week before I move onto the next video.

>>2125051
This is recommended in the first lesson of Vilppu book, pg7 (in my PDF). The times were established through my own experience.

>Figure drawing advice
>>2124286

>>2125050
>>2125052
Not sure if you're drawing from reference or not, but when choosing a subject to draw - referenced or imagined - keep in mind the 'readability' of the subject. Based on the filename I'm assuming this is supposed to be two figure embracing - something I really wouldn't've known if i didn't read the filename, which isn't a good sign. I thought it was just one figure in an awkward pose drawn with a very inaccurate, confusing underlay.

Think: is there a better way I could show two figures embracing? A good way to know if your subject is well chosen is so imagine the subject being backlit (so you can't see any details - only the silhouette). Could you still tell what the subject is? What it's doing? If not, the subject material could probably be drawn in a better way - consider changing the camera placement, the positioning of the limbs, the overlaps, etc.

If I backlit this subject it would not only be indistinguishable as two figures embracing, but I might struggle seeing it as figurative at all.

A lot of new artists get enthralled with the romantic idea of "I can draw anything if I get good!" - and you could in theory, but as you get better you're going to start asking yourself "why?"

Not everything is worth drawing, If it feels awkward and unnatural and difficult, it probably is.

Hope that makes sense. It's a lesson I really try to hit home with my students - reality is poorly designed (compositionally and aesthetically, not mechanically), so be better than it. Compose things in the clearest, most concise way - just as if you were writing an essay or something.

>>2125080
....so do untimed gestures or pause after each image.

>lineweight
Use a softer pencil, sharpen it correctly, hold it correctly (draw using shoulder) learn to manipulate line weight by controlling the angle of the pencil. Play with it for an hour and you should be good. If you're using a tablet try using pencil for a while

>>2125084
Thanks anon. This helped.
>>2125087
Do drawing teachers browse /ic/?

>>2125090
I teach portfolio prep for high schoolers but I'm also an upper term student in college. I also already have a degree so I'm more qualified than most of my peers to teach and do jobs that actually pay money and mean something. I go to Art Center and groom most of my students to go there also (not my choice for them, but their choice in taking the class).

You decide I guess.

kek

>>2124907
Thanks!
and first off, never be afraid of giving crit, even if the person is better than you. Just because I am good at some things doesn't make the issues it has any less valid. Were all learning here, and maybe you just learned something I missed out on.

That being said I increased the value and did the best to give the lighting a glow to make it feel other worldly. theres more light going on and I refined some edges. I know my biggest weaknesses are edges and color& light, so I'm being careful with them. Some areas still lack definition like the ears, but I'm thinking of leaving them to draw more attention to the face

and again, any help is really appreciated

>>2125109
>just because I am good at some things
Kek

>>2125115
show ur art

>>2125115
rude, but alright. How about you contribute by telling me my mistakes while shitposting, instead of just shitposting

>>2125125
How would that make him feel better about himself?

>>2125123
That phrase sounds a lot more retarded in a beginner thread.

>>2125123
>>2125125
Sorry, I'm a cunt. I couldn't resist saying something about that humble brag.

Is it alright to practice daily digitally? I consider myself a beginner because I'm really awful at drawing from imagination, so I've been trying to practice that since a few weeks, but I haven't really on paper, only on computer mostly. Should I make the switch on paper or is it the same thing?

>>2125087
Thank you!
There is no reference, something I am trying to do from imagination. The construction (if I am using the term correctly) I think might be faulty because I am trying to draw the figures separately in two different layers and causing me to lack depth and proper perspective.
I am starting my figures as Loomis described mankins. Maybe I should try some backlit geometric shape?
Here is something I tried a couple of days ago.

>>2124221
>Take all of this with a grain of salt, though. I'm pretty shit.

don't give advice when you're shit. you cause more harm than good

>>2125196
He doesen't look shit to me.
Also I think that no one needs to be a profesional artist to give good advive to beginners.

>>2125193
why are you drawing from your imagination?

did you do calculus without a textbook?
learn a different language without vocabulary and grammar?

there's a concept called your 'visual library' - it refers to what you know and can 'recall' onto paper. when you start off it's basically empty, if not populated with detrimentally inaccurate tropes from whatever symbol drawing you grew up learning (see: 'drawing on the right side of the brain' by Betty Edwards).

drawing from reference eliminates these inaccuracies and populates your 'visual library' with accurate material which you can then stylize, etc. to your heart's content, but before you can do that, you need to know what you're drawing.

i'm not saying don't use methods taught by loomis of vilppu or mateesi or hapton or whoever you choose to study, but apply their concepts to life drawing models (or photos if you can't gain access to figure drawing workshops/classes).

the problem is you're drawing from an empty 'library' and it really shows. there is no 'honour' or 'creativity' or w/e in drawing from your imagination when there's nothing there to draw from

no one expected you to learn calculus or a foreign language without a textbook or guidance - in art, this is your reference material, your life drawing, etc.

not using them isn't going to help you improve.

>>2124683

More like the gayley method. Just use loomis like every other sane pro.

So, I used to draw all the time, starting from the age of 7 or so up through graduating HS. It used to be so effortless and I would just fill up sketchbooks without even trying. The only issue is, I never learned my fundamentals properly (I blame my shitty HS art teacher I was stuck with three years in a row).

A few years have gone by since then and I've only recently tried getting back to drawing, and damn am I rusty. Now I'm trying to reteach myself the fundamentals I never properly learned.

I just bought a book on anatomy to help me understand all the structures of the human body, but don't know how to go about absorbing what's in the book and applying it to my drawings. I've seen people on here say to just draw every picture and diagram in the book and study it while doing it, but I'm a little confused.

Should I just draw what I see and copy from the book, or attempt to build the forms out of gesture lines and simple shapes? Or both?

Pic related, it's the anatomy book I got

>>2125193
Your understanding of construction is all wrong, you are missing way too many basics to even attempt this kind of drawing.

My experience is that learning to construct and some more is necessary before drawing humans. You could as well try to learn calculus before doing 1+1, 1*1, a+10=c, (remember the decade you spent in school doing math?)

Basically
(1) learn about the fundamentals. Drawing isn't that important here, but your choice.
(2) do enough exercises which teach you to draw from reference, imagination and so on until you can construct most objects freehand in 1point and 2point perspective and apply shade to a refined drawing with your preferred tools

Then humans, stylized or not, will be possible.

I have question, in Keys to Drawing, Bert Dodson speaks about the 4 rules of shape, in which he says to begin a drawing, one should draw the overall shape of the object, then smaller shapes, trapped shapes, highlight shapes, and tie in shapes, is this a sound approach to drawing in the early stages?

>>2125236

>>2125236
>>2125240
nice photoshop filter bro

Need criticism. Please.

maybe this isnt the right place to ask but, I'm trying to improve my painting and blending technique with greyscale. Any critiques on how I'm doing, any tips or things im doing wrong?

>>2125244
Yea caught me I'm just a busboy taking pics of el resurante

>>2125249
the lighting isnt consistent. This kills the image

>>2125247
Here's mine don't know what to say other than practice with lots of different referances before trying to freedom new skulls

>>2125256
okay, light source is another thing i'm working on, thanks for bring it up, i was feeling it was kinda off in some places.
Is it inconsistent everywhere or in some places?

>>2125292
eveywhere, easiest to spot is the one on the far right, the light source for that one is from behind, but then you look at the rest of the turtles the light is not from behind

>>2125254
Those lines look like they were drawn in Flash.

>>2125247
Dont copy your reference. Change the way it looks in your head.

>>2124540
Is this woman serious?

>Decide to play a FPS I used to play when I was 14 cause I was bored
>Originally quit playing so I could be more productive with my life
>Forgot how to log into my former account, so I come up with some generic weeb name
>Have none of the skills I developed whatsoever when I was kid
>Get my ass kicked, and called a noob by spanish 13 year olds
>Flashback to how many hours I wasted playing it when I was kid to get to my former skill level
>Think about how I should and should have spent all those hours practicing drawing
>uninstall
I have never felt so old in my life

how the fuck when woman has pale soft face do you even show the shape. i do not even know

>>2125408
her is picture

>>2125408
>>2125409
crap. now I see bottom of face is too small.

I don't intend to be rude right off the bat, but how much can I trust this thread to criticize what I draw if I chose to do so? Blind leading the blind (never take advice from other beginners etc.) or experienced people capable of pinpointing specific mistakes?

>>2125408
>>2125409
pick better reference material

not that this woman is ugly or the photo is not aesthetically pleasing, but as far as a good reference for constructive study (i.e. planes, facial geometry, etc.), it's really dimensionless and flat.

this is pretty typical of portrait photography, which is confusing because most people think 'well, it's a nice photo so it's a good reference to study from.' look for a photo with more dimension - this is usually accomplished with one strong light source and a secondary light source or a bounced light.

and it's not that this woman's face is impossible to break down, it just requires more projection from the artist's anatomical understanding onto the subject material than 'reading' off the image itself. find an image that 'reads' better, something more obvious, something easier.

pic related sorta

>>2125410
Are you the only trip in the beginner threads or are there more?
>>2125415
Its pretty easy to tell. Pro /ic/ usually sound like they have had lot of experience in their text and beginners like me will usually say they're beginners before criticizing. When a troll says something is shit, its probably right, but a troll wont go into detail why. Just upload the fucking thing and be grateful that you get any feedback.

>>2125418
yes I think I know what you mean. more expressive face, better controus.

>>2125419
no there is others I only have name so people can see me progress if I make any.
I don't post often. I think some people here do know what they are talking about.

>>2125423
nothing to do with the expressiveness of the face
the lighting is just more descriptive of the form

in your study the subject is all soft lit and all the values are really similar. it's pretty to look at but ambiguous to really discern planes of the face

which is what you're trying to do

>>2125419
i used to trip but i got shit when /ic/ found out i was female so i stopped

>>2125423
nothing to do with the expressiveness of the face
the lighting is just more descriptive of the form

in your study the subject is all soft lit and all the values are really similar. it's pretty to look at but ambiguous to really discern planes of the face

which is what you're trying to do

>>2125423
> so people can see me progress if I make any.
Thats kind of cheating. I think itd be cooler if you just focused on posting more in the beginner threads and try harder to progress; developing a signature, and then /ic/ will give you a name themselves. But I do see your reasoning, I actually do remember you, and I think from I what I heard there have been multiple /ic/ meme people who had trips though.

>>2125430
my name was cos I just drew circles. if left to other people I would be that circles faggot.
I am not trying to create identity, I only post in this thread when I actually do something.

everywhere else name is off. see.

>>2125428
your hard lit face tho has one side white and one black so maybe poor example
.

How do you stop thinking you're doing everything wrong, like learning the wrong things? As well as getting over the thought that you'll always be a shitty artist.

>>2125230

Anyone?

This is my second attempt at art. Paid a little more attention to this one.
>>2124253
was my first

thoughts?

>>2125461
>How do you stop thinking you're doing everything wrong, like learning the wrong things?
Open a book.

>As well as getting over the thought that you'll always be a shitty artist.
If you won't regret giving up, give up.

>>2125461
>How do you stop thinking you're doing everything wrong
This was me before depression.
I am over depression and I JUST DON'T GIVE A FUCK anymore. I don't act like I am careless about everything, but nothing gets to me on an emotional level but I still try to behave professionally.

I just draw things I like, be patient when drawing. Don't expect your shit to look good a couple minutes into the drawing. start drawing from reference a lot. Pay attention to that shit and you will find yourself capable of drawing better than you expected.

im literally going insane.

I'm willing to throw down a lot of money for a scanner. Are they expensive? I'm not sure what would be considered a "good" scanner.

Of course I'll scan my work, but there's also books I'd like to post up and share with the internet.

I thought I was ok to do loomis stuff but nothing feels right. is it just I need to keep practicing the faceballs? or should I go all the way back to the beginning and go for Drawing With the Right Side of the Brain?

>>2124373
thanks /ic/!

Just got my drawpad today

>>2125639
Curious because i was considering getting a pad as well, which one did you go with?

posting something

>>2125642
I got an Intuos Pen and Touch Small, its a basic beginners drawpad. plenty of youtube videos that show it

photoshop is not my forte.

i want someone to help me

Any tips or comments?
Any ways to improve in general

>>2124292
anyone?

How long should I practice a day? Right now drawing feels like a chore and I'm awful at it, but I feel like I should practice it every day regardless if I want to get better at it. How much should a beginner like me practice?

>>2125810
as much as you can without it killing your spirit, breh.

How costructive/destructive it is to draw from references? When I do I'm capable, even if I take A LOT of time, to do things I consider somewhat decent, even if I still have a lot of way to go yet. Without references though I barely know where to start. I try to practice without references every day but I don't feel like I'm making much progress. Should I continue using references until I somehow figure it out or is this gonna make me too dependent from them? If so what should I do to fix my problem?

How is Scott Robertson's How to Draw going to help me learn how to draw cute animu girls?

Really though, it seems more focused on industrial design than the sort of things I'd see myself drawing in the future, so what would be the best way to tackle it and what sections do you think are worth skipping? I definitely understand there's a lot of important concepts to take away from this book but some parts seem overkill if you don't want to draw cars and tanks for a living.

>>2125777
Yes. That's how "we" use Reily's method. Move on, Anon.

>>2124995
>>2125042
>>2125045
>>2125051
>>2125080
>>2125089

Here it is, day 2, and I feel like i've gotten worse, the first 30 minutes were awful.

I think another problem im having is finding the right method of finding gesture.

I took some of your advice and tried a more softer pencil and tried to be more deliberate with my stokes and making each gesture with continous lines rather than chicken scratching it, but some habits still show up.

What do you guys think so far? I'll probably move onto the next Proko video after day 7. I'm more of a visual learner rather than books. I have an easier time learning while watchingsomeone do it

>>2125847
How is reference "destructive?"
Other anons put it way better than me in some previous posts, but drawing from imagination from beginning to end is absolutely terrible for your drawing skills.
How can you draw something you don't know?
How can you exaggerate something you don't understand?
You need to start with reference. Ideally, you should always use reference. You like a light source? Cool, use it. A certain facial feature? Draw it in. Analyze and incorporate knowledge from your reference.

References are not cheating. This is what most beginners get wrong. They think using reference is automatically wrong.
No rules, only tools.

>>2125887
It helps build a knowledge of form. You need form to draw cute anime girls. You start from simple stuff like trains and go from these inorganic forms to very complex organic forms.
I say stick with the book.

I cant fucking draw noses in 3/4 views. Somehow it always looks fucked and the angles come out terrible. How does it seem to come so naturally to everyone? Either it juts out awkwardly, or its just asymmetrical and i have no idea how to make it come forward right. Every other feature looks just fine and the proportion is fine too. I dont get it. Whats the best tip for nose placement you guys have seen?

>>2125521
jesus, 4k?... resize that

>>2125521
No one is going to load a 1.41 MB file of a beginner with mostly empty fucking space just to help you. In fact, that kills any chance of getting help. Sort out your retardation.

>>2126040
Don't hurry too much, even something basic like gesture takes practice and patience, keep working. In a meantime you can start learning basic anatomy: proportions, landmarks, difference between genders. In books - Loomis is a long-standing meme for a reason, personally I subscribed to New Masters Academy for 30$ and there're TONS of material for beginners, I belive cgp have torrents of some of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a complete beginner myself, I'm just telling you how I'm doing it.

>>2126040
>Here it is, day 2, and I feel like i've gotten worse.
>day 2

Nigga keep going. Do it everyday.
Then tell me at day 20 if you've gotten worse.

someone teach me how to into lighting and pencils, I'm no good outside my comfort zone.

CAN I DRAW A HUMAN YET /IC/?

>>2126085
>>2126094
Gotta eat big to get big

>>2126130
Fuck, i have no idea what im doing. i'll just stop posting.

>>2126130
no keep going

>>2126123

>>2126130
Do you even know how to fucking crop?

>>2126153
The image would of still been ridiculously big.

>>2126156
>of
FUCK YOU
U
C
K

Y
O
U

>>2126160
Did i trigger your inner grammar Nazi?

>>2126156
Just don't give up man, keep posting your progress but keep in mind what people hated about it.

>>2125232
Can I get an answer, please?

>>2125232
>>2126167
Yeah, here goes.
It's pretty much a sound approach in any stage. To exemplify, it's the same thing you do when figure drawing; the gesture is the overall big shape, while the rest are increasingly smaller shapes until it gets to details.
You can also look up a handful of other methods like the envelope method which further exemplifies this.

Basically, it's how most people draw in the first place. From big to small. From overall idea to details.

>>2126170
Thank you very much.

>>2125560
Anyone?

>>2126196
Scanners aren't all that expensive. Do your research, most importantly.
It mostly comes down to what you want to scan. Get a big scanner if you want to scan big things. Get a scanner with OCR software if you want that feature. Definitely get a scanner with good resolution if you want to scan books.
"What to look for in a scanner" gives you a lot of results on google.

>>2126040
Haha don't you worry about anything, it might just be because you were faced with gestures that you haven't drawn before, the beauty of it all is that you will never be able to say that you have drawn the human body in all possible angles and gestures because there will always be something a little different, factor in the different model and you will never run out of possibilites.

What about doing a few 2 minute, 5 minute and 15-30 minute gestures also? I think it will benefit you if you throw in some longer ones.

For finding the right gesture, Vilppu and Hampton have great videos on how to tackle a figure from start till end. Since you are a visual learner: for Hampton its his video learning course called "AnalyticalFigureDrawing" and Vilppu's "Vilppu Studio Drawing Manual" I'm not sure if there are free samples on the net but they are well worth looking into.

>>2125810
"Is your hand bleeding?" is a good rule of thumb

>>2125106
hi poison

>>2126095
>Don't hurry too much, Academy for 30$ and there're TONS of material for beginners, I belive cgp have torrents of some of them.
>Don't get me wrong, I'm a complete beginner myself, I'm just telling you how I'm doing it.

Where should I start? I think the hardest part as myself is not knowing how to get from A to Z. I'm very much a , tell me where to go next kind of guy. Which im also trying to stop because I feel like I'm not creative enough for this line of work. I've seen some loomis stuff and I got some art books myself, but i can never really make heads or tails of it. Am I supposed to copy it? read a lesson then make millions of copies? i dunno :|


>>2126098
>Nigga keep going. Do it everyday.

I just feel like i'm worse because I cant seem to find a concrete way of doing gestures, if you look at my picture you'll see like 5 different ways of doing it. I'm just having a hard time locking it down so it's alittle frustating making myself do something I'm having a hard time with.

>>2126420
>>2126271


>>2126271
>t might just be because you were faced with gestures that you haven't drawn before, the beauty of it all is that you will never be able

I guess the goal for me right now is to be able to construct bodies from my mind like this

http://41.media.tumblr.com/2970147afa4be75353e28fee7e23f352/tumblr_na8cxsRieY1qmqyt0o1_1280.jpg

Just simple lines and learning the basic understanding on human anatomy. Now I dont mean I wanna copy their style, I just have a hard time making basic construction. (see attached file)

It's just a mini goal I put up for myself. (I find mini goals makes it easier to get to the larger ones. So right now I wanna work on making better sketches like above, veries how i do them now)

>What about doing a few 2 minute, 5 minute and 15-30 minute gestures also? I think it will benefit you if you throw in some longer ones.

As for the 2 or 5 or 30 minute gestures, I've tried those, . At this point I really only know how to do gestures and nothing more. I think I'm very afraid to go into contours because people say thats the wrong thing to do. I dont know how to push farther or go into more detail.


>For finding the right gesture, Vilppu and Hampton have great videos on how to tackle a figure from start till end. Since you are a visual learner: for Hampton its his video learning course called "AnalyticalFigureDrawing" and Vilppu's "Vilppu Studio Drawing Manual" I'm not sure if there are free samples on the net but they are well worth looking into.

I am Watching Proko's "How to Draw Gesture" Video. Even though it's an old video. He says ( at the time ) that he'll make a another video later, so to try out gesturing until he uploads it.

So I figured I'll try and figure out how to gesture for a week before I move onto the next video.

But I will try and find Vilppu Studio Drawing Manual (though Vilppu's so calm i kinda fall asleep when he talks

>>2125026
Daymn girl, dats hawt!

I'm very new but I've been trying to figure out anatomy and proportion better. That said, all I've been doing lately is sketches like this and not been actually finishing anything. Is this proportional enough to flesh out? I feel like I still don't really have an eye for it.

>>2126441
I don't understand this measurement system.

body is longer than guide, what are the landmarks?

How many hours a day do you guys spend working on your art?

>>2126475

I didn't finish the measurement guide since I'd made it after the fact to eyeball whether things were reasonably proportional, but it's basically 7.5 heads (the last .5 by the feet isn't drawn on the guide).

As for landmarks I was using pic related as a general reference for what to look for, though not all the landmarks are laid out in my sketch.

>>2126040

If it makes you feel better, anon, your day 2 gestures are better than my day 8 or so gestures.

>>2126441
When laying out proportions, don't use a seperate line with the head markings, especially when its a figure in motion because foreshortening will affect it.
I suggest you learning the proportions of body parts in relation to other body parts, such as that the head is about the same height as a straight hand (Therefore the palm is about the distance from chin to eye). I like starting a drawing from the shoulders, making the torso the size I want and making limbs and a head outwards that correspond to the size of the shoulders and torso.

>>2126493

If it changes anything, I laid out the head measurement thing after I drew it, it was more for me to check whether things actually made sense.
The tips help though, thank you!

>>2125033
>faces practice
>doesn't draw the faces

>>2126423
The reason you fail (or will fail) is because you are impatient. Discard the foolish notion that you are a special snowflake with latent talent, discard the equally foolish notion that you are hopeless and cannot improve.

The truth of the former is irrelevant in the long run - if you are talented it will show eventually; if not, you will become talented. And the latter just isn't true. (Unless you have a medical handicap like blindness, brain damage etc.)

Look, in the end it comes down to this: do you want it? If you want it badly enough, nothing is an obstacle. You could be a talent-less faget working 80 hours a week in back-breaking labor, but if you want it badly enough you will make time, you will ignore how tired you are and how little talent you have and how little progress you're making. None of that matters, it comes down to patience and perseverance. These are oft-repeated words, but that doesn't make them empty.

Now for some actual advice: if you want to draw figures, just get Vilppu, work on gestures for 6 hours total (say, 1 hour a day, as you're currently doing). Then move on to the next lesson.

From then on, do 30 sec gestures for 15-20 minutes before each lesson OR 1 minute "blind gestures" where you analyze the figure for 30 seconds and then draw for 30 seconds without looking back at the figure (highly recommended), extend the times if 30 sec analysis is too fast. This is basically a warm-up, once its done, move on to the lesson. The first four lessons on simple forms are of vital importance, really take your time on them (12-20 hours each). That should last you a month or two depending on how much time you put in.

Don't get distracted, don't get discouraged, don't meander, don't stop, and don't fuck around. These first lessons can be boring but they are everything. If you fuck up here, everything you learn thereafter will be useless and wasted effort, if you do well, everything that comes after is only adornment.

>>2126520
>Discard the foolish notion that you are a special snowflake with latent talent, discard the equally foolish notion that you are hopeless and cannot improve.

sorry but I never, ever thought I was or am a "special snowflake" I dont believe in Talent, I dont believe in people being born to able to do something. I believe that people are as good as they are because they started young. Talent is something that gets you started it doesnt bring you improvement.

i dont respond to this "tough love" shit. I'm not dumb, I know things only come to you in hard work. If I didnt, if I really thought I was a "special snowflake" like you assume I think I am. I wouldnt even fucking do this, I wouldnt come here and ask for help or critique. I'd just sit there and just assume I SHOULD be better because I am better.

These proportions feel really off, I guess it's too early to start worrying about rendering? I feel like I still have a shitload to work on in regards to fundamentals.

I was wondering what a good daily schedule for practicing would be, I've been doing 40 minutes of gesture drawing, followed by an hour of landscapes and an hour of loomis, what else do I need to balance out my schedule?

>>2126560
I dunno if it will help you anon but an exercise that has really been helping me is to spend an hour doing the following.

30minutes study reference and attempt to draw it, focus on trying to understand what is going on in the reference, what the forms are etc. Breakdown as follows
5minutes gesture & thumbnail sketch (drawing small helps me focus on major shapes, keeps me from getting caught up on details)
10 minutes sketch full scale.
15 minutes, adjust and redraw as necessary, try to get some details and basic lighting in there.

Take a 5 minute break, and spend this time examining and studying the reference.

Next 30 minutes do the exact same thing, but this time do not look at the reference anymore. Once you start no more looking at it. So start again with a simple gesture and a thumbnail. Then a full size gesture and sketch and try to get in basic lighting info (direction the major areas in shadow etc).

When you are done compare.

I gotta say this is hard as fuck and the first 5 attempts at this exercise were horrible. But it forced me to start trying to understand and how to make things work based on construction and also how to construct things from my minds eye.

>>2126524
For you, the second part of that is more relevant than the first.

I don't really care about your motivations or inner thoughts or beliefs, I offered advice based on my own experiences, that is all.

That fact that you only responded to the part that seemingly insulted you tells me you still have an ego. Else you wouldn't have bothered with this post and would have instead got to work with the concrete advice I gave.

>>2126581
assumptions and implications are bad for a reason.
You are implying because im insulted or something that I dont take your advice. you are coming off an arrogant as well bruh.

I can take advice from you, i dont have a too big of an "ego" that I wouldn't. Defending myself doesn't give me an ego.

>>2126587
Alls well that ends well bruh, if you're genuinely taking my advice, you should improve. Everything else is irrelevant. Good luck and godspeed.

>>2126567
Nice, different anon, saved for later, will try this

can someone help me find related pen settings in SAI?

>>2124540
my god how was that helpful. "i hope that helped you" yeah it helped me to laugh

>>2126630
i think that looks like the use of the marker brush

>>2124253
darth hoodie.

>>2126123
do still lives with artificial light sources
((or))
set up a still life with light and composition that matches your thumbnails/planned image and take a picture for reference

I'm new here.

Is it okay to draw using a mouse? I have a tablet, but god damn I'm absolutely dogshit at using it. Paper is fine, but I can't really draw on a tablet unless it has a screen like an ipad. My current tablet is just a regular bamboo one so I never feel like I have 1:1 movement with my hands and my cursor on the screen

>>2126663
Yes...? But like, you aren't going to magically get better at tablet drawing by leaving it to gather dust.

>>2124558
only if you think it's garbage. it takes as much effort and dedication to become good at drawing as it takes to master any other discipline, if you stick with it it'll pay off.

>>2126668
I know I draw a lot everyday

>>2126663

I suggest just sticking it out and getting used to the tablet. It takes getting used to but you will get used to it. I'd say it's a far better time investment to spend a few days figuring out a tablet than a few weeks / months getting good at mousedrawing, because unless you're phenomenal at it mouse drawings will always look kind of shit.

>>2126676
You don't sound like you do

>>2126681
what is wrong with a little self insult?

>>2126692
not that anon, but im a jealous cunt. and you saying thats garbage hurts muh feels

nice garbage though.

>>2126706
thanks for that made me laugh, but i don't think it is good because I refuse to spend enough time drawing. I'll draw at most i'll draw a single thing for 20 min at a time

>>2126487
6-10 depending on how im feeling

>>2125479
I want to learn how to draw.
Looking to get a wacom tab soon, using my surface pro 3 for now.
Anyone know of a better software to draw on for tablets like the SP3?

>>2126889
what I am using now, Sketchbook pro. I disable touch which helps with the smudging.

would use photoshop but I feel like it would suck using it without a keyboard.

>>2126890
Also will redo the shading on commander cody(left), got carried away with that brush and I feel like it doesn't fit with that imperial commando to the right.

Need /ic/

Sorry for the low res pic. How is this is called and how I create it in photoshop?

>>2126918
a layer
>I doubt this is what you wanted to know

how in the FUCK do I draw women's hips?
I'm constantly getting lost in the area around the illiac crest, the greater trochanter and the fucking medius and that hunk of fat that women have deposited on their upper thighs WHAT DO

Warm-up session of experimenting with simple poses and a bit of perspective.
I'm still trying to figure out how to show expression using only one eye and no brows.

>>2126928
I tried to see just how quickly I can study something.
Apparently, about 8 minutes are enough for a basic, inaccurate study. Very satisfied with it, though.

>>2124076
>>2126928
>>2126965
And a 10-minute study of the OP picture. I'll probably do a serious one some other time. Or in the next thread.

>>2126663
It's not called "hand-eye coordination" because you look with your eye at what your hand is doing.

Practice drawing without looking at your paper.

Accuracy "right now or die" with endless cycle of ctrl+z or messy underlay "not there draw again" for construction layers?

>>2126965
While it's good that you're trying quick studies, your accuracy could really use some work. More accuracy studies bro.

I like the way you draw though, good stuff.

>>2126997
In between. Think more of a blocky than a messy "not draw there again". Instead of a mess you want something that is very basic which you can go back and refine. Think low poly game models.

I just started using Photoshop but I have no fucking idea what to do with it. Other than layers I just use it like Paint. I'm not even sure what brushes do what and how to use them, what the pen tool is, what brush should I use for this or another. Even just the fucking shortcuts. Where do I start?

>>2127005
The problem is my dumb "perfectionism" where either I place that line right where it should be according to plan or die ctrlz-ing, resulting in creation of one form instead of thousands if I were less formal accurautisto.
What do?

so i'm still alittle unsure on how I actually should be doing gestures, so I made a little gif on how I usually do it. I'd love for some critique on all the errors I'm making

>>2126928
>>2126965
>>2126969
And now a work in progress. Apparently four arms equals two sets of all the muscles related to them.
The lower set of arms looks wonky as shit, might redraw those.

>>2127003
Thanks, man. I'll definitely do some accuracy studies.

my comfort zone is basic perspective drawing of basic shapes n shit. how should i break out of that? naturally i want to draw people. gorgeous women mainly ( and sci fi land scapes from my dreams )

I'm listening to a playlist while I draw and "The Edge of Glory" by Lady Gaga keeps playing. one recurring line in the song is "I'm on the edge, the edge, the edge, the edge!" which I can only hear in the "ow, the edge" sense

>>2127082
I fucking hate 4chan, this is the image I was trying to post

>>2127027

I don't think there's a specific way you "should" do gestures as long as you can capture the pose pretty quick, but to me (as a novice myself) what you're doing looks pretty reasonable.

>>2127060

Turn people into basic shapes, and then draw that. If you're confident it looks good, you can go over that with the detail afterwards.

That's basically how many people recommend you learn how to draw the figure anyway, so you've already got a head start.

I might also suggest trying gesture drawing. Then you can plot out the shapes on top of the gesture.

>>2127098
noted. any idea how to get better at details? im guessing thats when you start drawing everything around you to do that. i can't detail shit. gesture drawing sounds fun though. any good book ideas? i forgey if loomis did one on gestures. i may want to try portraits as well unless facial expressions are part of gesture drawing.

>>2127093
Thanks, still new to this as well

Anyways, DAY 3 of my attemps of getting gud.

You can see in the top corner is where I started and everything was awful, but towards the end I think I found a flow going i'm not sure.

I'm still having troubles with proportions

any critique on it so far or just keep on trucking?

>>2127122
>DAY 3
I will admit I assumed these were gonna be utter shit, but I was pleasantly surprised. that's a pretty graceful command of line you've got, I like it.
>critique
I'm not really good enough to be doing that. Short tangent, if you ask people to rate something everyone enjoys- candy, for instance- every day people rate candy pretty consistently. Good candy is good, and people can tell what candies are good. But if you ask those same people, who are not taste experts, why they like or dislike the candy, or try to break down their appreciation of the candy into narrower categories, suddenly their ratings go all over the map. that is, just by asking people to give more detail than they're qualified to offer, you turn a nice orderly ranking like
>A
>B
>C

to

>B
>C
>A

Experts can offer in-depth opinions on their field of expertise, but non-experts completely short-circuit their sense of quality by trying to overthink the experience.

And that's why I give opinions, but not in-depth critique, on drawing. (Design's another animal, I have a much more expert-like appreciation for design.)

I have just had a random thought. What is the point in learning to draw? Think about it, lets say that youve been practicing for 10 years, get all the fundamentals down tight, you're a fricking master and then what? Does /ic/ actually have a specific idea all planned out that it wants to make afterwards? Keep in mind, we've all seen anime girls in every situation imaginable, from being in tanks, destroying cities, cat girls, sword girls, monster girls etc. I think us beginners, should think really hard, whats something that just has to be drawn, and that you want to draw it so bad, that you're going to actually go through all these fundamentals just to do it. And dont just say, "lol, I want to make comic" or "Im gonna make hentai", what is the SPECIFIC image and text in your head, that you are trying to put down on paper, and what are all the specific techniques and fundamentals that is stopping you and what specific references are you gonna study to illustrate that image and make it flawless? Well, thats just my thought so far /ic/, I know Im a puny beginner, so how is what Im saying retarded?

I guess the counter argument to this would be that you want to participate in draw threads and be able to draw anything on the fly.

>>2127161
sorry for the smug face, wrong image

>>2127161
some people see art skills as a means to an end, some people see art skills as an end unto itself. there's reward to getting better at drawing. me, I have some things I'd like to be able to draw well enough to make, but mostly I just want to be proud of what I draw.

>>2127161
I just want to be able to get my stupid thoughts from my head onto paper. thats my goal

>>2127161
For me most things are clear(I'm still working on my own understanding of Why Bother): it's not about putting specific stuff on paper, or even getting money for that, it's like learning completely different language to mediate your feelings, ideas, opinions, anything.

Think about verbal language as high level, where you can say, for instance "tree" and everyone who hear this will get their own abstract understanding of tree. You then can go deeper and write all the stuff about said tree, which will take, perhaps, several pages of plain text that will trigger even more understanding into basic concept of "tree" you mentioned before. You then can go deeper and deeper, add even more strands and strains of describing motions around it and inside it and look - entire essay is built around simple idea of "tree" that has evolved ever since.
This entire essay with all it's undercurrents can be packed in a single picture! Art takes snapshot of your thought and if that is your decision leaves no dispute behind. It IS a "tree" itself, clearest possible form of it. Assembler of the mind, perhaps, a purest form of thought that does not need Words and Symbols to describe it. I know there are stuff composition that allow even simplest picture be stuffed with hundreds of hundreds of meanings and layers of understanding.

But wait, there's more. What if we make tree that would never exist in our world? It would take pages and pages of Words to put things like this in domain of logic and sanity, entire world must be built around it so that it may exist, while strokes of brush create entire universe of nevertrees that will not conflict with world, because they have their own right there in the picture plane.

This is powerful tool that one should not ignore, perhaps closest thing to magic along with music. If you're gut enough in those, your thought can subtly and slowly change entire civilisation.

>>2127231
finally drawing is fun again.

>>2127302

anyone got tips on how to at least draw basic bodies without reference?

Right now I'm in this terrible rut where I cant even construct a basic body without reference. I feel like my picture is limited to the references or resources I have.

>>2127320
Can you construct cubes pyramids and other simple geometric shapes from various angles without reference? No? Get that down and constructing bodies without reference will be much easier. You should be constructing forms, like the ribcage, skull and pelvis to start. This requires being able to draw and manipulate geometric shapes.

>>2127313
the collarbone extends all the way out to the shoulder, not into the armpit. Just feel the collarbone on yourself, or look at refs.

>>2127161
I want to be revered as a God in something; I choose art.

>>2127325
I can't actually... my spheres and cubes and pyramids look awful.

>>2127334
thats because you dont take the time to study simple forms

>>2127334
Then I humbly suggest the following:
Work on dem forms anon! They will help you!

Secondly see this
>>2126567
and possibly consider it, you might benefit from it as well.

Drawing from imagination means being able to construct, like a building. If you can't build the scaffolding and the frame for the building, your finished product is gonna be shit. Work from the inside out. Work on dem forms. Being able to construct means you'll be able to do anything you want and create from your imagination.

>>2127334
Holy shit that's BAD. Don't even think about drawing humans. Spend 2 months drawing nothing but basic shapes.

>>2127336
okay, i'll put that on my things to do. I already am trying figure drawing for a few hours out of the day.

Any tips? I mean other than looking at pictures of cubes and such. Any books or artists I should look for?

>>2127338
I'll do that

>>2127340
sure, got any tips on that? I suppose just drawing from my imagination wouldnt be too good at practicing. Would you help critique me on my 2+ month journey?

>>2127341
They´re cubes m8. And pyramids.
What reference do you fucking need?

If you cant depict basic forms how the fuck do you intend to depict complex forms, which are composed of lotsa basic forms?

>>2127347
well clearly i cant draw them, so if you cant draw something dont you look up reference for it?

>>2127347
i mean I apologize, im very new at this so im just confused on where to go

>>2127351
>>2127360
Don't take this anon's word personally. You are correct with the idea that you should get reference. But in this case rather than looking at pictures, you might be better off going to your local craft store, buying styrofoam or wood shapes and then practicing drawing them in different positions and with different light sources on them.

You should still continue to attempt to draw the human figure, even if you cannot do it well. There is nothing wrong with reaching beyond what you are capable of. Just be sure to try and understand what you did wrong and spend time studying the basics so you can continue to improve.

Personally I disagree with the idea that you should draw nothing but geometric shapes for 2 months as another anon said. You should draw geometric shapes, but draw other stuff too. You need to balance your studies with your own creative attempts.

There are plenty of books on form and construction in the sticky and also in the books post elsewhere on this forum. Villpu and hampton are personal favorites.

>>2127329
Is that any better?

>>2127370
i guess my problem is I dont where to start, i guess im not that creative.

>>2127434
We just told you where to start, read the post again. Read it carefully.

>>2127435
got it. i shall get started!

>>2127231
>>2127249
>>2127302
>>2127313
>>2127395

>shit-brown background
>slightly more shit-brown chicken scratches
>3/4 blank space

i regret even opening to look

It's strange I don't even remember what it's like to chicken scratch. I wish I hadn't thrown out my drawings I made as a kid.

First post on here. I don't know how to make things look much beyond fallout pip people in terms of detail

Is the point of the draw circles exercise to draw them with one stroke or just draw over the form until it looks good?

>>2127799
One stroke.

It's supposed to look like a typical Comic illustration. How can I improve it, besides the apparent "Dick bulge" (Fixing now)?

>>2127915
Improve your anatomy

>>2127683
Brighter backgrounds strain my eyes, i guess ill just have flux on it lowest setting.

>>2127799
>>2127802
if you're talking about drawabox, he mentions over and over that it's not about one stroke but "drawing through". I don't know where you got that from. but you shouldn't just do whatever bullshit and hope it lands either. find a middle ground.

>>2127945
Drawing through has no relevance to drawing circles.
Drawing through is simply seeing the wireframe model of an object in your mind.
What you're saying is absolutely irrelevant.

Why does it feel so fucking SHIT to do quick gestures? I think they are completely useless in my or anyone else's beginner-state since there is not enough understanding of the human figure to quickly pinpoint it down.
I am not able to process any information in that short period of time, be it 30s, 1min, 2min or 5min.
It feels like I cannot memorize or learn anything from it.
I have a much better time spending long periods on a figure, where I can break it down and understand and learn it.

Its so damn uncomfortable to do them digitally also, any tips on how to optimize the entire process?
I open a video on one monitor (for instance croquis cafe) and I draw on the main screen in front of me

I feel like I'm wasting half of the gesture's time only by turning my head left and right

What resolution should I draw on ? Currently I create 3,000x2,000 documents with 72 inch/pixel resolution and zoom in to about 100% and try to draw multiple figures in one file like that. Doesn't feel super nice, I tend to lose sense of proportion while going and my gestures end up being differnet sizes

What brush settings are optimal ? I tried Transfer on/off and Shape Dynamics on/off but nothing gives a good enough feel which allows me to control my line balance the way I want.

Right now its like I'm drawing blind half of the time because I need to look at the figure, constantly in a rush

>>2127915
That's not how you hold a bow.

gesturidoos

>>2126927
Find a different anatomy book to explain it too you or use different colors for construction so you don't get "lost".

>>2127962
It feels shit because those are not gestures, they're contours.
Actual gestures are very useful because they teach you a few things:
1. figure set-up
2. weight balancing
3. movement

As for digitally drawing gesture, you can just open two windows on one monitor if you can't look left and right fast enough.

Use a program like MyPaint for an infinite canvas. Draw only in the space defined by the window. Try drawing while zoomed out.

Brush settings are personal to every artist.

Rushing through gesture is not a good idea. Not even the 30 second ones.

>tfw you forget to buy charcoal to start the baroque plates with

God mother fucking dammit.

>>2127962
Don't rush and force yourself to work faster. Usually gestures are very fast because those who are experienced know exactly where and how to put their strokes and don't need more time than that. For someone who is still learning, the time constraint could be useless.

For working in digital I recommend a larger brush. You are using a very fine brush that may inadvertently force you to focus on details before you have the big gesture down. Use the big brush to create one big motion, one big fluid swoosh. Then add details as you choose.

Can someone explain what I'm supposed to do in lesson 2 Vilppu (spheres/round forms?). He starts off with just drawing circles which I did for a couple of days, but where do I go from here? Should I draw from reference using round forms? Should I be drawing the gesture first then drawing over that with forms?

>>2128005
Are you following the book or the video?
In the videos, he breaks it down a lot more, saying how you're simply drawing your own contour.

hey guys can you please suggest to me one book that a complete beginner like me can learn from?

Something that goes into basic shapes and the like

Here is some of my work!

>>2128013
For me like 25% of what Vilppu says is muffled mumble

>>2128017
That's because you first need the cochlear implant like our lord and savior.

>>2128017
Put on head phones.
But, if you're saying you don't understand what he's trying to say, then you've skipped some studies and you shouldn't be doing Vilppu yet.

>>2128016
anyone? i really wanna improve :(

>>2128043
fucking check the sticky, damn. loomis may seem like a meme, but it's just not. Read fun with a pencil or some shit.

>>2128043
For absolute beginners, pick up:
Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain

or

Keys to Drawing.

Do one or the other, and you can look at both since they each cover their own subjects quiet well. But they should give you the stepping steps to obtaining the ability in learning how to draw.

>>2128016
>>2124076
>Before asking "what should I read/view/study/learn," consult this link:
>http://irishopp.hubpages.com/hub/how-to-draw-learn

Please read the OP at least.

>>2128063
>>2128063
>>2128063

New thread.

>>2128013
Same anon.
The book. I don't have access to the vids (are they on the wiki?). What does "drawing your own contour" mean?

Should I just give up /ic/? I've been drawing for about two months in total of about 8 months on and off, trying to get into it but it's hard shit. I've just now started reading loomis, as in literally today. Also I'm 19 so is it too late for me to start from the bottom? Everyone always seems to start at like 12.

Also not a "progression" pic. Just the only two things I'm not completely and utterly embarrassed to show and they happened to be a few months apart.

>>2128218
shit son i can only do boxes in perspective and i picked up the pencil a month ago. im 23. there are people who wait till 60+ to learn this shit. age means fuck all. its hard because any skill takes time and hard work to get gud. im farther down than you and 4 years older and im still chuggin along. don't you dare give up anon. just keep drawing. doodle every fucking day. i do it at my work on the pack of order pick up paper before i toss it in the trash. study. draw. have some fucking fun.

>>2126487
around 10-15 hours a week more or less

I always get in the mood to draw on sundays when I have to sleep early to go to work and it makes me fucking mad

>>2128218
Don't stop drawing just cause of your lack of progress. It takes more than four months to learn. Also your drawing from models without even first trying to draw a wooden mannequin. At first learn how to draw a still life. Then once your good figure out the anatomy of a person. THEN try to draw a person from a model.

Holy fucking shit I want to kill myself. Drawing with hyperhidrosis is absolute hell.

>>2129822
>hyperhidrosis
I imagine doing anything is hell with that.

>>2129825
It seriously fucking is.

>>2129836
Like I honestly just give up on trying to get good at drawing with this fucking curse.

>>2124279
>>2124281
Does that also include drawing from other artists?

Question:
Can two different objects have different vanishing points? If so, I imagine its supposed to be at the horizon line.

For example, in a scene there are two cubes: One is looking directly at the viewer while the other one has rotated a little. How do I find the vanishing point in a situation like this? Are they supposed to be different or is there something about perspective that I don't know?

>>2124076
practice practice practice shitload of practice.