/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Finally good stuff in op

Should every beginner start with perspective practise and 3 dimensional forms?

>>2100198
I think so, yes... understanding and being able to create forms on paper is the key to drawing in a way that gives the illusion of depth.

if the goal is flat drawings, or complete abstractionism then you would be fine just learning composition and color theory

;___;

>>2100198
Definitely. See, most of what comes later builds upon a basic understanding of these fundamentals. Every shape, volume, and piece you will ever use while drawing needs to be placed in perspective and look 3D to be effective. That's why you study how to achieve that.

>>2100198
what are you plannig on drawing that you think doesn't have perspective and form?

Question; people tell me to draw what I want and have fun and I tell them that the things I want to draw are far beyond my skill level. They tell me to practice and then i can draw what I want but I tell them that practicing isn't fun and they in turn tell me to draw what I want and an endless loop begins.

What the fuck do I do?

>>2100240

Sounds like you enjoy the idea of drawing cool shit more than the actual hardwork it takes to get there.

Boring shit should interest you as much as the cool shit (or at least be tolerable) because at the end of the day its still drawing and that's what you should love and work towards in my opinion.

Its hardwork man, if you don't find it "fun" then harden the fuck up or quit.

>>2100242
Practice is failing over and over again. And no one likes failure or thinking, "Well, at least you tried."

>>2100240
You have three choices here:
1. Tough it out. Do some intense, boring practice until you can start drawing what you like at decent quality.
2. Draw what you want, and draw it a lot. When you first start out, it's going to look bad, and you're going to need to face that fact. Look at your work and say "This is awful, but how can I make it better?"
3. Do both option 1 and 2. This is ultimately the best option. Draw your favorite thing. Start a cool project. Do whatever. Just add in some studies, 3d shapes, lines, elipses, or any of that other boring stuff when you take a short break from your interesting stuff.

No matter what you do, it's going to take time. Just be patient and enjoy each drawing. Climbing the mountain looks difficult, but you can totally do it if you go about it the right way.

>>2100243
>thinking of it as failure

>>2100245
Dude, no one has told me they enjoyed learning to draw. All I have heard is about all the pain and frustration everyone goes through. So I know what I have to look forward to.

Also, whether you want to believe it or not improvement is built on failure. That's just how skill works.

>>2100242
You think this is a motherfucking game, dontcha?

>>2100247
meant for >>2100243

How specialized are professional artists? I'm wondering if it's difficult for a actual professional to transition from one medium to the next. And I'm also wondering if this is common at all.

>>2100246

I enjoy learning how to draw.

Why? Because I don't think of it as failure. When I put out a shitty figure drawing or life painting I still enjoy it, I keep my standards relative, I don't expect myself to be brilliant, just to be better than before. Sometimes after studying I paint what I want, and I'm happy when I see I can get a bit closer to my goals.

I never view it as failure, you should try the same.

>>2100240
Do you think all those great artists somehow skipped that phase? Because they didn't.
They learned to appreciate it instead. What you draw now and what you draw in a year, compared, will pleasantly surprise you, every time.
Yeah, a year. This takes time. Every kid thinks they can learn how to draw animu in a month, tops, and reality smacks them hard in the mug. We live in times where everything must go really fast; it's basically worldwide ADHD. However, the unfortunate truth is that you have to put a lot of effort into a skill you want to master.
Do you think this only applies to drawing? It doesn't. Learning to play the guitar is just as hard. Learning to cook. Endurance training. Weight training. Driving. Nothing is easy.

tryed the 15 minute sketch thing today obviously i spent way to much time on the face and didn't get to the breasts and the right arm

>>2100285
oh and i forgot space gun thing...

Is it ok to study just simplified anatomy? Or I have to go deeper and study everything about bones and muscles?

>>2100265
You hit the nail on the head, especially with the "worldwide adhd" The internet makes things look so easy and people don't realize the effort required to do a skill well

>>2100362
imo you don't need to look deeper and study the bones and specific muscles, especially not at as a beginner. Study the basic shapes of the body first. You're not a doctor, no need to sit down and memorize all the bones in the body. Just understand the body shapes

can comment in draw please?

>>2099894

>>2100380
Looks okay I guess, you lost the shape of the forehead and the brow line, you made it look more flat. The eyes in yours are too big also, unless that's intentional. Also the other side of the mouth should also make an arc, not a straight line down. Back of the head is too small I think

>>2099894
You suffer from severe chicken scratch and lack of perspective knowledge. Drawing hundreds of circles will not help you.
You also don't know how to measure, nor do you know basic proportions. Where is her brain? Half her skull is missing.
I won't even criticize the rendering.

>>2100362
You will eventually have to go in-depth, at least to know where the simple forms attach on the bones. Can't really avoid that.

Are there any decent turorials or general guides for line weight?

>>2100369
>>2100401
Thanks anons.
I'll try the simplified anatomy inside out first. I think I'll do it looking for more complex references to know better what am I doing.

>>2100411
think about it in a painterly way, make your lines nonexistent/lighter depending on the light in that place

Any feedback? Does anyone have a good tutorial on adding values?

>>2100439
values come with practice, try to squint your eyes when trying to identify values.

>>2100526
Not bad. Work on blending and sharpening the shadows where appropriate. And I'd like to see you try that texture at the base.

Person that did value study where did you get that reference

>>2100526

Thanks but I was asking for a website because I've been looking for well lit cast/sculpture to study but I've had no luck. That one is perfect if you have more like it can you share.

>>2100541
Look up Philippe Faraut Sculptures.

krita sai or photoshop?

>>2100565
sai or sketchbook pro for line work.
photoshop or alternative for editing
bonus fun time app artrage

fuckin' shoulders, how do they work?

How do I get rid of this shit? It's not like it lags, it CONNECTS absolutely separate lines in any application no matter how slow I draw them, if they are close enough they are connected.

>>2100624
Solved, it was "double click distance" in wacom settings.

im sure this is a personal preference but if youre working on a digital painting and you have multiple layers, do you ever merge them all into a single layer at any point? if so when you do it?

>>2100624
>>2100632
I have a similiar problem that I couldn't solve by changing double click distance. Also tried disabling Windows Ink but that didn't work either.

Basically, if I make really short, really quick strokes with the brush tool Photoshop tries to connect them. See pic related, my strokes are marked in red and the connecting lines that PS automagically adds have been marked in green.

Is there any way to fix this? Because it's really driving me insane when doing small speck-y details.

I see a lot of people telling beginners that they are still symbol drawing, but how do you know? What's the dead giveaway that someone is symbol drawing?

>>2100704
if it looks super unrealistic

>>2100688
Yep I met same stuff at first, but then I switched doubleclick off in every preset wacom has(photoshop, sai, default) and only after that it worked. I dunno why but if one of those is not turned off, they will *all* work like if it is turned on
hope it helps mane

>>2100704
>What's the dead giveaway that someone is symbol drawing?
This is symbol drawing. Which one is the symbol of an eye?

Does anyone have references like this. I need to find some to study light on basic forms.

>>2100716
i'll try that when i get home, thanks for the tip anon

>>2100728
I second this, please respond.

>>2100728
>>2100766
DIY

Getting all the different lighting is a pain a photo is much better

>>2100728

You can buy some cheap shit at a garage sale or at a cheap ass pawn shop, get some matte and glossy gray spray paint, and get to work.

>>2100728
I recon there would be some simple 3d app that lets you work with primitives and place lighting,

>>2100786
I found an open gl web sculptor.
could be useful for studying light on forms.
has 2 primitives, you could download import the rest

could be fun.

>>2100810
link would probably help

http://stephaneginier.com/sculptgl/#

>>2100814
nice. is like a mini zbrush online!

>>2100822
You can try downloading Sculptris if you want to sculpt for free. Its a watered down version of Zbrush (made by the people that made Zbrush).

Should I be copying what I'm drawing by the dot
or should I alter it so the perspective looks right?

I can't do both lol

When is it okay to use a ruler, if ever?

>>2100219
Hope that can be of help. If you want to improve your anatomy, study the skeleton

>>2100601
Hope that can be of help. If you want to understand anatomy, study the skeleton.

>>2100780
No.
I'd rather have a kind anon hold my hand and give me what I want.

>>2100952
>for long, straight lines
>for being precise
>for measuring

Ideally, you should be able to do "short to medium" straight lines freehand so you don't have to bust out a ruler every time you have to draw a straight line.

>>2100969

There could be a website out there with someone who already taken those kinds of photos. Posting a link somewhere isn't spoonfeeding like seriously.

What would spoonfeeding actually entail? Only thing I can think of is drawing someone's art for them for an assignment.

>>2100961
>study the skeleton
That's too spooky of an approach for beginners.

I'm getting better at basic shapes but my shading is off. I don't exactly know what direction I'm supposed to be going with it. U just scribble in and hope it looks good. Any tips?

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
First time putting pencil to paper.
This fucking garbage took me a week because I couldn't draw for more than 15 minutes without becoming too enraged with how fucking bad I am.
Does it ever get easier and less frustrating.

>>2101051
I'm still a beginner, but I used to not have the slightest idea what direction to shade. Learning about countour lines and using them in your work will help you immensely (with time and practice).

Ive been thinking about the posts above, and think the reason why drawing might seem miserable to me is because Im setting a goal one day drawing hentai. I ought to just abandon any goals, but just draw cause I enjoy it. Too much planning ahead, have to see drawing as a hobby.

>>2101083
So something like this. It looks 1000x better. Many thanks!

>>2101094
That's probably a good idea. Often times planned actions don't put out the desired result. But when you go with the flow, good things just seem to happen for you.

>>2101078
we all can make it but you're in over your head.
You don't draw figures from the outlines in, you draw them by creating shapes that define the volume. Essentially, you work inside out. A line is a line and is subject to inaccuracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiUfVKPEKxU

>>2101110
I figured it was too much but the book I started on gave a few assignments to do "pre instruction". I didn't want to do a self portrait so I drew a dude instead. Next I'm supposed to draw my hand.

What kind of "perspective bootcamp" will I have join to finally understand this image?

>>2101111
keep it up. I hope you can get to take a class with a portrait/figure artist some day.
and if you can get quads, then anything is possible.

>>2101109
Yeah, sort of hard for me though since Im someone who always thinks about the future.

>>2101116
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOSjRm0Rkw

curvilinear?

>>2101117
Thanks anon. It actually means a lot.

>>2101120
Thank you so much

>>2101116
When you find out, tell the artist that drew it to join you too.

>>2101078
Wow, a week.. Dude, you need to chill out. Allow yourself time, everybody was pretty bad at one point. You're an the beginning of your journey, so, don't expect things to be perfect.

As for the picture, you need to learn how to lightly sketch and make your lines 'flow'. You're drawing on the paper pretty hard. As for drawing from reference (for practice.), you're learning how to observe. You need to learn how to observe exactly what is in front of you instead of drawing symbols of what you think the eye, nose, mouth, etc look like. You're also excluding details and leaving things blank (like the bridge of the nose and the softness of the lips.)

It really helps if you put your ref upside down and draw OR you can draw from life, which has helped me tremendously.

P.S, If you're frustrated, you're improving.

>>2101138
>P.S, If you're frustrated, you're improving.
Holy shit

>>2101138
where did all the good pencil artists on /ic/ go? i miss them

>>2101147
2 you're moms' house nerd lol

>>2101138
Are you sure.
I've been frustrated for 2 years straight ever since I started drawing and my improvement is slow as molasses.

>>2101138
>P.S, If you're frustrated, you're improving.
Getting out of your comfort zone, you mean.

If you're improving, then things would be getting easier for you, thus less frustrated.

>>2101120
So does it bother anyone else that he is chicken scratching in the video?

Does OP no longer put up a reference and have us draw/study it?
That was fun. One of the reasons I even come to this thread.

>>2101175
>This thread's exercise will be perspective. Reproduce the OP's picture or do your own perspective exercise.

>>2101176
thanks m8

>draw on paper
>scan
>trace with pen & tablet

or just draw straight with pen & tablet

>>2101176
honestly can we get perspective exercises going for a while? i followed the figure refs for a while until i felt really comfortable with them but i still struggle with perspective

I still don't understand how you guys expect novice drawers to enjoy not being good and just enjoy the act of drawing. If I could enjoy the act of drawing I would be able to enjoy just "drawing" with a pen with no ink. Just moving a pen around and doing nothing.

Sure it's easier to enjoy being shit when you're young and don't know that you're shit. But when you become an adult things change. Why can't people understand this?

>>2101337
you can enjoy something even while being fully aware that you are shitty at it.

if you are trying to do art as a career and not because you enjoy it, you are much better off choosing something ELSE you don't enjoy and doing that instead. it will make you more money than doing art, doing art is NOT a good way to make a living.

it almost sounds like you are a type of person who is doing art because you are obsessed with some fantasy of you being an amazing artist and are dead set on achieving that goal. if that's the case, it is likely why you are unable to have fun with your art, even if you suck, because you are obsessed with a dream not reality.

protip anon
>the fastest way to get better at something is to enjoy doing that thing

>>2101116
that's just 5 point perspective. two vanishing points on the sides, two on top and bottom, and one going to the center of the image.

I spend what little time I have trying to practice art usually by taking request or drawing characters in vidya threads. Is this good practice?

Do you guys have any tips on making character turnarounds? Like, before you start 3d modeling process. Trying to learn art,model,programming all at once is kinda tiring.

>>2101344
like you want to model a figure in a 3d software and use it to make a turntable 360 spin of that character?

>>2101346

I want to model a figure. Rig it for animation and general game development.

>>2101348
Basic tips for modelling a 3d character:
>note: This assumes you know your software, seriously understand basic functions like scale, move, rotate, how to construct complex shapes from simple polygonal objects, welding vertexes, being able to mirror things etc etc

1) Draw isometric views of your character or take reference photos of the person/object in real life. If using photo reference use a telephoto lens and as much zoom as possible to flatten the image and remove warping due to perspective. Usually you are going to want at least front and 90degree side view. Ideally as many views as you need, top, bottom, 3/4 etc.

2) Create image planes in your software of choice, map these images to the textures of those planes.

3) Use these planes as your references and begin to shape out your character using simple polys, making them more complex as needed.

4) After roughing out the form set all your edgeflows properly and even things out around joints for good animation.

5) rig if desired, during rigging not any trouble spots that are difficult to fix with skin weights and make blend shapes to deal with those issues. pose character.

6) uv map, then texture if desired, also set up lights tweak render settings

7) animate turn table

>>2101339
Are you saying it's bad to be obsessed with a dream?

>>2101351
Roger. Im noting these all down.

>>2101352
Actually you bring up a good point anon... that was in fact what I was saying, but now I'm questioning my logic.

I'm not sure.

But I think that if you are putting yourself through hell to reach that dream you should realize other people have the same desire you do, but are definitely capable of getting there and enjoying the journey. That's the point I was trying to make I guess. It sucks that you aren't enjoying it, but plenty of other people probably are.

>>2101344
>Trying to learn art,model,programming all at once is kinda tiring.
Pick one, and only one. It takes many years to get good at these and even a lifetime to master them.

>I spend what little time I have trying to practice art usually by taking request or drawing characters in vidya threads. Is this good practice?
Drawing for the sake of drawing is okay, but you wont get very far unless you study the fundamentals of drawing and painting (anatomy, perspective, color, light, composition etc)

>Do you guys have any tips on making character turnarounds? Like, before you start 3d modeling process.
Yep, learn how the human figure works. There's no simple tips.

>>2101348
>I want to model a figure. Rig it for animation and general game development.
>Trying to learn how to draw, model, rig, animate, code, learn a game engine.
Forget my advice. Good luck with your goals though. You'll need it.

>>2100285
You got distracted by the small things, before setting down the basics.
Try to go from big to small:
-Just some quick and thin lines for gesture
-then you block in the bigger forms
-put the anathomy on it
-after that you can start with the tones and values

All these require a little knowledge in anathomy, gesture, forms in 3D space so i would start with that.

critique/redline/howdoidrawhands?

>>2101356
OKay than. Thanks for the advice!

>>2101339
>...because you are obsessed with a dream not reality.
Different anon, but that really hit home.
I spend too much time daydreaming instead of taking action.
I wish I could change that.

>>2101355
Indeed, they are. I find it hard to enjoy for the same reasons I would find it hard to enjoy anything I would fail at.

If I were to play basketball with someone it would probably be fun at first. But then every time I shoot the ball I miss. Every time. Maybe I make it once and feel good about it, but then it's followed by more misses and that one point I got is starting to seem like it was just an accident. After a while missing over and over again stops being anything near fun. Yeah, DOING something might be fun at first but when it has no end result the basic human instinct of doing something to meet a desired end result doesn't get met and discouragement sets in.

I honestly do believe that the older one gets the harder it gets for them to enjoy something they are good at.

I've come up with an analogy but with guitar playing. When I started I had a lot of fun and it was because I didn't realize how bad I was. And I saw some very skilled guitarists play way better than me and thought, "Wow, they're really good. I could never get that good!" And so I thought I was as good as I was going to get. But I got better and now I can play better than those skilled guitarists.

But when I started wanting to learn to draw I was assaulted with supporting words like, "You can be the best if you try! You can be as good as your favorite artists and better!"

It's like being able to see a ceiling with the light on versus having the light off. If the light is off and you are jumping to reach that ceiling you might try long and hard. But it the light's on and you see that ceiling is miles up, well you can see that your jumping isn't getting you any closer. And you can actually SEE how far you have to go. Also it doesn't help that other artists like to tell about drawing their entire lives to get to where they are and all the pain it caused them along the way. Yeah, PAIN. Not good times like I'm being told about here. I've had a LOT of time to think about this problem.

>>2101359
Everyone is doing that hairstyle now, I need a gf with that hairstyle to be hip.

How to draw landscapes from life with pencil/pen?
It's fucking giant high detailed pile of grass.
And how to draw gestures if people move around? Literally 1 sec gestures

>>2101430
For landscapes: Learn basic perspective.
It will help you in being able to understand why stuff looks the way it looks, which allows you to put it on paper with a semblance of reality.
Second off, learn what to draw and what not to draw. Sometimes too much detail makes stuff look unrealistic, since you don't see every detail of everything you see in real life either.

tl;dr git gud

>>2101363
>I wish I could change that.
You can.

Next time you find yourself daydreaming, start thinking about the steps you'd need to take to get there.

>>2101365
>I honestly do believe that the older one gets the harder it gets for them to enjoy something they are good at.
I'm assuming you meant "they are not good at" there.
The adult should have, over the years, picked up a few useful abilities to help with that: discipline and willpower.

You don't need to enjoy something to do it.

Nobody enjoys wiping their ass after they take a shit. We all still do it.

Since we're in the beginner thread, we all should have read Loomis by now:
>Lack of knowledge can be greater torture than the effort acquiring it.
Well, ask yourselves if it is. Does not being able to draw well suck harder than drawing badly? Do you want to be able to pain a pretty picture more than you want to avoid practicing?

not sure if anyone remembers this, but i posted the first pic a few months ago idk. because of final exams i cant draw as much as i want to, but im pretty happy with my progress with faces so far. of course these two faces don't belong to the same character.

>>2101496
You've been practicing the same bad face for a few months?
Wow.

>>2101498
i said it was a different face.

>>2101499
You did, but it's literally the same. Same eyes, same nose, same mouth, only different expression. Even the rendering is the same. I'm actually blown away by how little progress there is.
I bet you used mirroring to draw them, too.

>>2101500
nice trollin m8

>>2101498
>>2101500
>Being this much of a cunt.

You make /ic/ a worse place.

>>2101496

You've handled the mouth better and the proportions are also nicer, its good to see you're being more confident and using cast shadows but your main issue is that you're still drawing faces front on with the same sort of overhead front on lighting. While hes a cunt the other guy is correct in that you haven't made much progress if we compare only these two images.

Why not try bring it fully to 3d? Why not different angles? Painting nice faces is not as important as being able to paint a nice head or full portrait. Try something like this reference.

>>2101508
Thanks for the reply ! Actually this was part of a bigger drawing, this is just the head section. But I'll be sure to try other angles ! thanks for the ref aswell. Probably will doodle that this afternoon.

>>2101496
wow its true
the only thing different is the shape of the face

>>2101515
lmao what is this
nothing fits ??? the elements are at the same place but they dont fit perfectly. also you had to resize it in order to overlap :') the nose looks the same though that I can agree on.

>>2101519
>resizing a picture makes it totally different!

lmfao, what a tool you are.

>>2101538
k cool bro.
thanks for wasting time on me tho, always appreciated.

>>2101515
>>2101538

>actually spending time to download 2 front on portraits, overlay them and resize them to fit, just to say :its the same!!!!

Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes and brain can clearly see that. The only tool here is you.

>>2101542
>I was just trolling

Sure you were.

>>2101515
>>2101538
I did what now?

>>2101549
not trolling and never were,i just find it considerate how all of you are wasting your time on me for some goddamn drawing thats all.

>>2101551
>I have to have the last word

Good luck with that. Enjoy your day.

Could I get a redline please?
Head and hips are larger on purpose btw.

>>2101591
Red, redline everywhere. Nooooooo!!!!!! Seriously. Whats wrong with this neck and the body. It looks like this just put the wrong neck on the body part for the body transplantation by Sergio Canavero. You shold sue him.

If "on purpose" means "Frack! Whats wrong with this head and hips i can't quiet get it." That's alright, its your style. Just go with it.

>>2100961
Thanks based anon!

>>2101591
Most people don't even know what a redline is, so I'll forgive you.
I redrew your whole pose. Best I could do in 10 minutes. There was nothing to redline because everything was off.
Take it with a grain of salt though, I'm pretty shit myself.

>>2101660
Thank you. Seems I really need to understand shapes and how they intersect better.
Guess I'll go back to practicing basic forms and perspective for now, before tackling full body drawings.

>>2101111
If your book is either keys to drawing or drawing on the right side of the brain, and these are the first few exercises, then it's not supposed to be constructed, it's just meant to teach you to draw exactly what you see with few, defined lines.

Welp, after symbol drawing all my life I'm trying to learn to draw properly

Any suggestions on how I can copy art better?

>tfw you finally realize why /ic/ says you need to learn proportion and perspective before drawing figures.

>>2101741
Don't worry about it too much, it naturally comes with practice.

But general suggestions would be to look at your reference a lot and to try to measure with your eyes the shapes and angles in relation to each other in your reference.

Pic related is my attempt at showing what sort of thing you should be thinking through when you draw from ref.

>>2101762
Oh I see, thank you!

I kept trying to spot conveluted shapes, I ignored simple ones

I've gotten to the level where it's acceptable for me to draw mediocre at best fanart
but where should I go from here?
I kind of forgotten about my goals; I want something that benefits me.
I like porn and fanart obviously

Soo this is a gesture drawing from about 2weeks ago. took me about 2-5 min per person.
I will post a new one from today and want to know if i hit the right direction

>>2101867
This is from today. Hope the image quali isnt too shitty.

>>2101795

Draw it anyway. If you wait until you're "good enough" you're going to be waiting forever. There are plenty of amazing artists now that feel they aren't good enough.

So shut the fuck up and draw already.

Hey /ic/ usually a lurker on the beginner threads, I have only recently taken up pencil sketching but i never seem to be able to find the right approach I should take, I want to be able to do proportions in the human body and work my way up to realism, currently ive been practicing very basic shapes and shading (i.e. Spheres, cubes, and cylinders with light sources and proper shading. now the biggest problem I run into is i feel like im developing a style i dont want (most of what i know is tutorials on drawing with jazza) can anyone steer me in a better direction? i can post some of my shitty shit if you would like to critique

I have to say, learning to draw has to be one of the most frustrating things I've had to do. This is so much worse than learning to write or compose. Christ.

I guess I gotta go and draw a shitload of cubes from various angles again, since I can still barely do it. Fuck me.

>>2101876
but is that a correct way of doing things?
personally Caravaggio is my inspiration for art. I just wish i knew where he started and build up

Just started today,

>>2101876
Word.
Taught myself Japanese using online resources, and that's nothing compared to drawing.
inb4 weeb

>>2101881
learning drawing is like wandering in dark forest

>>2100719
God I love classical drafting

>>2101939
本当ですか。僕は一年に開始日本語を勉強知っています。

I want your opinion. I am a self taught 'artist'. I have little knowladge of proportions or human body. I would also like to learn how to draw propper hair with a shiny look. Thank you :)

>>2101939
Wow, same here. It's amazing how much easier I found learning Japanese than drawing, and I'm N1 (reading anyways, I still suck at production and listening). But at least that sorta taught me that even if you're bashing your head against a brick wall, it'll fall down eventually.

Anywho, I started Drawing on The Right Side of the Brain, and the author mentions a "basic unit" used to put your work into the right scale. My first negative drawing was alright I guess, but I found myself ignoring the basic unit after a while and simply using the negative spaces I drew in the surrounding area as a reference. Is this a bad habit, or am I doing it right?

When drawing, say, a bottle below a lamp, how do you make it to where the color of the shadow doesn't blend into the bottle?

When I try to darken my shadow next to an object, it tends to blend in since both parts are the darkest areas of the object.

Am I 'feeling' the form yet?

so like, how youre supposed to paint a stone :B

I surprised that I actually met people in the same situation as me ITT. Except I only been studying japanese for about 5 months now. so im shit at both japanese and drawing. So while were on the subject of drawing being frustrating. I just wasted the whole day trying to figure out how to practice the mannequin. I made it the Proko Mannequin vid, tried the examples, but still could not get a feel for it. And loomis's mannequin is still complicated as fuck to me. So, I guess tomorrow, Im gonna be just trying to put Hampton's figure into reference pics. But yeah, drawing is very frustrating, I still want to keep practicing, but Ive been going at it since noon; doing nothing but realizing Im doing everything wrong. Hampton is my last hope. And happy working to every other beginner ITT try to practice construction.

>>2101741
What's symbol drawing

>>2101741
never draw outlines first. One tiny mistake starts to multiply and then you get squished or stretched messes.

How do you guys stay focused? I have been drawing for around 8 months now, and I'm just now going through such a huge mental artblock, and I end up just procrastinating.

>>2100171
I really want to learn how to draw but I just don't know were to start I guess I could try the geometrical forms and Anatomy/proportion.
Apart from this place do you guys know any good site that can help with beginner's?

Alright /ic/, in order to make practice more productive, Im gonna post on /ic/ more. Someone please tell me whats horribly wrong with this pic, so I do not develop bad habits in future practice. Just tell me or show me anything, so I can actually have productive practice.

im trying how to figure out how to do multiple light sources.( torch on wall and torch on floor that the soldier dropped.) hand and sword on bottom are super shitty. just rough sketch to see where everything is going to go.
my main problem is i need to figure out how to make a background. i dont know what to do. i want it to look like a cave or dungeon but i dont know how to execute it. i think im going to make the background all black and make faint detail of a dungeon where the torch light fades into the dark. is this a good idea or should i not even try that?

>>2102161
sorry for shit pictures, its dark in my room

>>2102153
Rigid as fuck. Learn gesture first. I'm just another stupid newb though so take this with a grain of salt.

>>2102147
drawabox

>>2102166
i like this

>>2102026
Woah, nice depth

>>2102172
I do gesture off on, but ill do it next time. But is there anything else wrong, like, was I supposed to draw a egg in the box like that, and did I make the cylinders right? I just, cannot fuck up again.

Does anyone have any good exercises on foreshortening?

>>2100250

Professional concept artist and illustrator here. I specialize in digital media and I wouldn't do traditional at this point for a client

>>2100439
Study a black and white study, figure out how tones work together on faces in different lighting

>>2100439
I would work with 3 basic tones (light, mid, dark) based off the lighting. Look at black and white photos for examples of how light looks on someone's face.

Thoughts?

>>2102085
Look for the skeletal landmarks and build your basic shapes from there.

Was wondering if someone could tell me (not in detail, because I can just google it) the fundamentals of drawing before i get started working on a certain style I want

>>2101366
>now

Lesbians have been rocking that shit since the early 90s. You just got old enough to notice it.

Just testing my phones scanning ability. Pretty impressed. You guys should download google drive if you haven't yet. The only issue is it saves as a pdf

>>2102217
Yah, learned that from proko. Alright, I am making hw for me /ic/. I am going to do 30 of these within two days with landmarks and gesture.

why cant I draw this correctly =/

tried some colors

booby

>>2102283
you are drawing what you think is there, not what is there.

>>2102283
Mmm.. Symbol drawing? No?

Dude, try use a guide line to find the correct angles/ perspective & proportions. Dont worry about people saying "You'are symbol drawing". On this level just find the correct placement for every part of the faces.

>>2102303
>>2102301
How do I stop symbol drawing?

And for the guidelines what should I use? I've read loomis but I dont understand how I would apply it to mapping a specific face, especially in this perspective

>>2101078
yup it gets wayyyy better lol

>>2102334
Study the specific features of the face instead of the face as a whole. Think of them as simple shapes and planes.

>>2102344

is this really beginner level

>>2102346
what do you mean?

>>2102347

Was this from your imagination? Then he's saying you're probably not a beginner.

>>2102348
yeah but the rest of my art is crap... besides it's poses... poses... so the beginner can do poses...

>>2102349
Is that a placenta?

>>2102351
yeahhh no one likes fantasy

>>2102351
right. I'm done

>>2102334
For starters. Draw the Horizontal lines and vertical lines. If you already can do that, Use it for the eyes level.
Draw the vertical lines for the center of the head beetwen the eyes. If you look at a glanced. the width beetwen the eyes is the same width for the eye.
From here use every corner of what you have drawn as a landmark and draw the guideline. You can draw the head contour however you want just as a place to put your face on, but try to make it as oval as possible. Oval is good to make you feel the 3d surface of the face. You could fix it later by the help of the mighty guideline.

I hope this is true.

>>2102344
Really nice poses, but you could use some line quality. I am willing to bet they took more than 1 minute on account of petting your lines so much.

>>2102349
>>2102352
>>2102354
I like the quality of your lines here, but it seems you can only do it when you're carefully inking.

>>2102166
Félix?

>>2102352
>>2102354
Nothing wrong with fantasy. Your images just don't read well, very "wobbly" , and your I guess its cross hatching is all over the place and not expressing form.

How am I doing on a scale of shitty to scrub?

>>2102365
Fking next Ruan Jia right here

>>2102359
yeah it was a bit of a spur of the moment type of thing. I tried again with pen to do these poses i couldn't get in the right mind set... i have a few ink drawings that describe poses here

>>2102364
i'm better with acrylics

>>2102367
damn, that really boosted my confidence, thanks good samaritan anon

>>2102371
are you for real

>>2102372
I guess i'm just old

>>2100224
lmao

Been trying to spend 5 seconds drawing a circle for like 100ish circles a day to improve my line confidence. My circles are definitely getting better but my hand is still a bit shaky. Are there any other exercises to improve this? Basically made this one up and it seems to be working alright, it gets pretty boring though.

>>2102365
>>2102382
Sorry, I was being a cunt.
Here.
All you need to do is push them values. Even more than I did. Hell, I don't even know what a skull looks like. I've never rendered in my life.

Should I keep working with one point perspective or go to the two point? I realized I draw too fast and some lines look terible on it. Do you know how to draw side wall with the length I want? I'm drawing them without measuring and just guessing the length.

>>2102422
you are nowhere near ready to move on, these look terrible. slow the fuck down.

use a ruler, place your vanishing point in different places, at different heights, and make sure that your overlapping objects are realistic (they wouldn't be intersecting each other).

>>2100632
Wacom drivers are pure fucking shit.

>>2102429
Got it.

>>2102408
Don't just do unrestricted circles, this won't make you progress that fast confine them first into parallel lines, then planes, finally funnels. Vary sizes also, try ellipses, confine them into incline planes, create composition of ellipses first in one point, then two point, then three point perspective, and the pinnacle of it will look like constructed draw through sphere and cone and cylinder. After that use ellipse as guide to rotate other ellipses. This way not only your line skill will rise, but perspective. Do it.

>>2102476
Ill give it a shot, thanks.

Another good stuff to do is construct a bunch of boxes and then draw ellipse on each of their sides, and after that plot a rope-like line into them, this really teaches spacial awareness like crazy.
There is so much one can do with ellipses.

>>2101358
very interesting only started trying drawing bout a week ago and glad your not saying "-10/10 utter shit" but am fully aware that faces are my weakest point so when i actually started really getting into it i just went with it
thanks thou

>>2102476
>people regurgitating drawabox constantly like it's some grand master's course
I'm doing it too, but I don't know how I feel about that.

>>2102494
Drawabox is actually watered down Peter Han's Dynamic sketching course and Scott Robertson's How to Draw which actually ARE master courses with some of this guy's own incisions. Thye site does nothing, but set goallike draw ten times this draw 250 boxes for those who cannot invent their own goals and exercises. This does not make those exercises less important.

How do you properly convey depth and volume without shading? I see plenty of works that are only line art and/or flat colors yet they still come off as having depth, but whenever I try it it just looks flat as fuck.

>>2102513
(T-)Overlaps of Lines and form contour lines (think of placing rubberbands around the form)

if a lot of foreshortening comes into play then scale as well

>>2102513

Lineweight nigga. Notice how the background buildings look further away because the lines used to draw them are thinner, and there's less detail.

Any advice?

>>2102607
LOOMIS
O
O
M
I
S

Today's 30s feels

hello, first time /ic/ poster here

thinking about getting a tattoo in the vein of pic related, but i feel like it's somewhat lacking in the helmet area.

any suggestions on how to make it better?

i've never been a great artist but i doodle a lot and people like them and think they're funny

thanks

>>2102653
fixed

I'm kinda new too. Check out my tumblr for more, guys. Also critique if you got sum for me.
http://flavipalpis.tumblr.com

>>2102662
I like your doodle. :)
You can be good with this as a style if you work and develop.
to improve, learn anatomy, perspective, learn basic shapes for construction drawing and be happy :)

I need to figure shit out

>>2102732
thank you friendly anon :)

>>2102763

if you intend to keep doodling like that just get better at doing linework.

no need to do all the shit >>2102732 said

What should I do for my next study?

Holy crap I suck at shading. When I draw something from life, say, an apple under a lamb, I keep screwing up the shading.

Anyone got links to tutorials to get a better understanding of lighting/shading? I've never read up yet, so any info will help.

It might be hard to find a tutorial for shading and apple under a lamb.

>>2102763
:D

>>2102774
Yup, you are right.
But is always good to develop knowledge and create tools to do more.
You can aways simplify and keep doodling (and make it better) with more knowledge.

>>2102793
I'm asking about shading in general.

testing perspective. super noob here

What kind of brush settings do you guys use on photoshop? I often have an awkward time with the stylus because the brush strokes always either overlap or go dark too quick.

>>2102882
Play around with flow and leave opacity alone.

>>2102954
Dorito island

>>2102363
huh?

trying faces

>>2102959
I giggled

I also would have laughed at "The hills are alive and made of nachos with cheeeeeeseee"

>>2102982
always try to reverse an image or look at it in a mirror. This brings out a billion small things you may or may not have noticed that were off with the placement of features. Also, the nose and lips are drawn from memory, and not observation. I can tell because you made them flat for the lips, and you upturned the nose, thinking " hey, there are two large holes at the bottom of a nose, right?" this is a common mistake that only time and training can fix

I give this a promising/10

>>2100219
facial proportions are off, but still nice and solid. keep going kid

>>2102990
Thank you very much.
I've been trying to stop drawing symbols and start looking for shapes and volumes. I'll keep practicing.

>>2103004
good. I hope you make me proud one day son

so when drawing faces from imagination, should i use base lines for like bodies, faces, and other shapes? or should i just learn to do without lines? which one looks better when applying to colleges to?

>>2102184
Seconding. It always feels odd for me with the arms and legs like my brain wants me to show as much of the limbs as possible always.

>>2101358
>-Just some quick and thin lines for gesture
>-then you block in the bigger forms
>-put the anathomy on it

Holy shit, I've been doing step 2 before step 1, no wonder my artwork is so stiff and flat.

I've discovered the secret.

So basically

>Find a ref so you don't fuck up
>Gestures
>Blocks
>Anatomy
>Colors and value
>Other fancy shit

Also

>Study the fuck out of loomis and other books
>draw what you like on the side
>Git gud

>>2103107
>draw what you like on the side

Isn't mandatory, but encourage simply so you don't get bored of drawing, to remind yourself why you're drawing.

But as you learn more from life (like anatomy and what not), watching cartoons/animu should be more of an eye opener. And the more educated you are on the subject, the more you understand why they are drawn as such.

rendering practise

i fucking hate loomis so much

Fuck

>>2103117
>Isn't mandatory, but encourage simply so you don't get bored of drawing, to remind yourself why you're drawing.

Not quite. It's more about using and applying what you've learned from your studies. Art is a skills trade not a knowledge trade. You can read all the anatomy books and Loomis you fucking want but if you can't put the pen to the page it's all for shit.

>>2103152
Why?

>>2103159
I want to draw cartoon characters, but have no idea how. Strictly learning fundamentals, but I will say I've notice "more" when watching cartoons now. How would I approach drawing what I want in this situation?

>>2103129
>This is considered beginner

Fuck me

>>2103164
fun with a pencil isn't the most fun and his instructions are pretty trash

like he says "draw blobs on the structure then fill them in. i wish i had more space to explain this!" then the next 20 pages are just "copy my drawings, but don't copy them construct them with all the info i just gave you :^)"

also they're all some hideous 50s american poster characters too.

I'm sure his other books are good but this one is just horrible.

>>2103169

The best way to learn requires these three steps

>Draw something, fuck up horribly
>Discover what your fuck ups are, study examples of them from life
>Draw that thing again, look at all the goddamn progress you've made and all the shit you've learned.
>Repeat until death

Since you're a beginner the shit you're going to fuck up is a lot more fundamental, like "My characters look all flat when even the most QUALITY of animiu manages to have depth." That's when you learn about form and perspective, then try to apply them to your work, only to realize that your proportions are all off, then you study nude models and some cartoons you enjoy to get an idea of how shit should be proportioned, etc etc etc.

>>2103173
>rendering
>practice

>Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.

>Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.

>Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.

>Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.

>Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.

>Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.

>>2103181
I feel like that with my current drawings.

Like, say when I draw a bowl of fruit, I look at it with said steps you provided, and try to improve from there. I do this for everything.

But then again, I'm sure it doesn't hurt to draw your character as I do feel imagination can go a long way. For my perspective class, I made a small city for the final project in 3 point. Problem was, I had no idea how to draw organic objects like roads and what not. Now I'm taking a class teaching the subject.

So I started drawing this picture for a youtube contest, mainly using the contest as motivation for myself to completely finish a drawing. I was real happy with the girl, but once i started on the guy up front I began hating the picture (after redrawing him multiple times) and gave up altogether.
I still wouldn't mind getting any kind of critique though, at least on the chick, since its the part i'm happy with. Thank ya kindly

>>2103244
Well for starters, what the hell is wrong with the gun the guy is holding? He looks like he's staring at the side of the gun. Or is he admiring the gun as he gets arrow'd down by some random girl?

>>2103246
Everything. Everything is probably wrong with him. Like I said, he was the reason I got frustrated and quit working on it lol. I couldn't get it to look like he was actually aiming at her.

>>2103247
Why don't imagine yourself in a position where you'd take air with a imaginary gun. When you fire, there's going to be a kick. What type of position would you be in when the kick occurs? Even if he doesn't fire the weapon, he still needs to be in that position. Even if we can't see his lower half, you still need to draw out what can't been seen. Don't be a slave to the paper.

>>2103250
>you'd take air

Sorry, meant to say aim.

>>2103250
Yeah you're right. I shouldn't have limited myself to only drawing his top half when i'm not a master of the human figure or anything

>>2103244
If you know perspective, try to use it. If you don't give it a try and work on it. Good lucky

i think i know how to draw a hand holding a ball now

I'm trying to figure out how this works. Basically, I'm drawing on paper pic related, but I'm unable to figure out how to get the exact measurement on the curve occurring on the square.

I know it's because it's going through the contours' of the cylinder, but how exactly is that form determined?

>>2103289
Just eyeball it mate. We're not architects.

>>2103290
Eyeballing is an option, but I was hoping for a more technical answer just so I'm a bit more accurate no matter what angle I show it at.

>>2103293
There is probably a way to find out. I doubt you'd get an answer for it though.

>>2103289
the maximum size the cube should be is the width of the cylinder. so the bottom edge of the cube should touch the cylinder at exactly the cylinders mid point up.

the intersection curve of the cylindere cutting through the cube is always just a simple round due to a cylinder being a circle extruded.

beyond that I don't know what your issue is.

I have a perspective question, how would I go about changing the orientation of this object while retaining the proporions? I can't find a method of doing it accurately.

no time today ;;

>>2103388
Use ref circle mate

>>2103396
I kinda get it, was hoping for a more elaborate answer.

>>2103402
You need Loomis.

I have watched Week 1 of Michael Hampton vids and made these for /ic/. The general rule of thumb for anything is the first 10 tries for everything will look shitty. ANyway, heres what I think makes a good gesture. All the lines have to look connected in some way, especially around the shoulder areas, otherwise it looks broken, like the body is torn. Next, is making the lines close together to capture the motion, this is difficult because the contour looks like its giving motion. You have to force yourself to think from the inside. The next part is just, trying to figure what role each limb has, like why is the arm extending there instead of being idle? I think my favorite gesture to draw now, is people crouching over . Because first of all, that ass. Second of all, the foreshortening makes it way more difficult, but more interesting.

I tried making gestures of my own, which I think should be mandatory because the whole point of drawing from reference is so you can eventually draw from imagination. Ive seen people on /ic/ who complain that they could draw reference easily, but could not draw from imagination for shit. I don't think I made any okay ones from imagination, except the bending over one. You really have to have a specific pose in your head, otherwise its a mess, like the first one I did. But I was disappointed though, because like Hampton said, when drawing from imagination, you can get poses that are impossible to reference of, and I did not succeed in that. Like for instance, I wanted to draw the bending over gesture where you are like inside of the bending legs, looking up at the ass.

But I think the reason I could not accomplish that is that because im practicing gesture, I want to get as much body part movement as possible, but for an interesting post, you really must foreshorten, so make sure to cut things off. But I wanted to just make one gesture that would be impossible to get reference of, and I unfortunately could not think of it.

>>2103384
Even something as simple as this was enough to help me. Thanks!

>>2103426
And final things. Drawing light is mandatory for gesture. Next is, when you draw a character sitting on an object, make sure the object isn't huge as fuck compared to it like I did.

And for anyone else trouble getting a feel for the volume lines, this is what I did. I got a toilet paper role, used a little pen, and there you go! Use it for when you just can't get that feel. But dont use it all the time, otherwise itll become a clutch, just like drawing from reference.

I haven't bothered with Gesture drawing in a few days. Too busy making of shapes and creating form with blobs, trying to figure out the best contour line, while on the side drawing from life.

I tackled gesture drawing, and for some reason, I see a huge improvement. Sometimes the very basics are THAT important.

>>2103289
Use ellipse subdivisions to find the points where the cube intersects the cylinder, then go from there.

>>2103430
>using reference
>a "crutch"

I hope no one takes you too seriously.

>>2103430
Drawing from reference is how you learn you fucking idiot, you cant draw something youve never seen before

>>2103482
>>2103486
Im not saying don't draw reference, Im just saying that I think its a good idea for me to practice imagination along with reference based on how many people Ive seen complain how they became to dependent on reference. I think that reference drawing should be something you practice so you can eventually draw the thing youve drawn so many times from reference from imagination, and that for artwork you one day submit online, it should be completely from imagination without copying any reference. I labeled it as a crutch to be extreme, so I dont fall into the trap of only being able to draw from reference.

I have cubital tunnel syndrome. Will this affect my drawing any? Should I even start until it's fully healed?

I know it's not carpal but asking still.

>>2103426
>>2103430
I don't think you're at the level you should be giving advice, mango. At least you're enthusiastic about it, I guess.

>>2103495

>>2103495

>>2103495

NEW THREAD

>>2103492
Heres the thing, if I type like im advice and I end up giving the wrong information, people will be more likely to correct and bash me because I deliver it like Im an art teacher.Theres a big difference between.

>Is this how you draw X?
and
>This is how you draw X!

And that way I learn whats wrong with im saying when people try to argue and correct me. /ic/ pros have said, that to understand something, its good to get in an argument over it. Im not trying to troll though, Im just saying what I concluded myself, and I want people to correct me.

>>2102216
It feels a bit flat. Maybe try to studie the anatomy of the face.

>>2103497
That's some of the stupidest shit I've ever read.
Please ask for critiques normally.

>>2103501
Yeah, I felt like a bit of an asshole. But there was still some reason behind it.

>>2103518
>I was just pretending
No, there wasn't.

>>2103522
I did learn a lesson though, so I don't act up again.

>>2102349
>>2102352
>>2102354

You need to get better at using line thickness, value, and detail to pull objects out of your drawing for the viewer to focus on. In your first picture its one line thickness and equally detailed across the picture so nothing stands out and it looks like a mess.

If you post an image here, and all people respond with is "LOOMIS LOOMIS LOOMIS", what do they mean?

>>2103822
Loomis is an artist that wrote a few books that teaches all the basics of art. You will need them if to want to draw well.

Beginner here, been having an issue with digital art. When using tools for linework, I tend to have trouble making it blend with the rest of the piece. Like, for example, I try to do decent shading or details and I still have these big fat lines. However, I end up with really bad chicken scratching if I do smaller/more lines. It just results in everything looking like shit.
Pic related, a request I did for someone on /v/ a while ago that is hopefully evident of what I'm describing, since it's pretty simple. It's just got big fat lines and whenever I try to even it out with smaller details they look out of place.
It's becoming an issue with my better attempts too, and its bugging the shit out of me. With a pencil or brush you can adjust the thickness and weight with a mere change in pressure or angle, but not when using a stylus, at least not in a natural manner.
What do?
Sorry if I'm bad at describing my issue

>>2104305

Use the standard round brush with flow and size set to pen pressure, work on a high resolution, and work on your line confidence in general, perhaps it's even a better idea to do so on regular old paper. Think before putting down your line, make one confident smooth movement. Learn about the concept of lineweight.

>>2104305
>>2105061
again

It's very much possible to get natural lines with pleasant lineweight working digitally and with a tablet, it's just a matter of you not being confident and skilled enough yet in markmaking.

anyone know where I can find a complete set of the Michael Hampton figure drawing videos?