/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

did you paint this op?

>>2080847
>2. Any other suggestions to add?
Watch Whiplash to learn how to become an /ic/-approved teacher.

>>2080859
http://janaschi.deviantart.com/

Id like to see input on this.
I have younger siblings and cousins interested in drawing. Im hoping to have time to sit down with them over the summer. Ive only recently had the time to sit with my youngest sibling. He wants to draw cars and other vehicles. Im trying to teach him basic fundamentals. Line, shape, perspective things like that. Im trying to also build his stamina. We sat down twice this week. First day for maybe an hour, and yesterday for about five hours. Usually starts with a free draw period then a simple lesson for line control, and ending with another free draw. Its important for me that he enjoys it. Hes free to go whenever but i was pleased that he wanted to keep drawing.

Hes always on the iPad so ive shown him youtube tutorials (dynamic sketching, proko, some sycra), drawabox.com, simple things.

He says he wants me to teach him over the summer. Im learning myself so im afraid of doing more harm than good. I mean im doing it for free but i dont want to lead the kid to hell.

For summer it would be the same, with work on betty edwards exercises and loomis. Really hammer perspective. Do observation drawing. Id like to towards the end take him to a car show for a day of observation drawing.

I like to think that every line today will make him greater tomorrow.

>>2080884
>literally raising your future competition for free
ISHYGDDT.

>>2080888
Better than the party van. Just simple enjoyment for skill progression.

LET THEM DRAW WHAT THEY WANT BUT INTRODUCE THEM TO AS MANY MEDIUMS AS YOU CAN. THE GOAL IS TO GET THEM INTERESTED IN ART NOT TO LEARN TECHNIQUES. KIDS ARE TOO RETARDED TO GET GUD AND THEY'LL THINK IT'S BORING AND HATE YOU.

>>2080888
I draw for fun. He asked for my help and we have fun. Im not going to make my baby brother or my parents pay for my hobby.
Chances are my disease will kill me so no competition there.

>>2080895
Congratulation you just suggested him the perfect way to raise a bunch of DArtists.

>>2080899
KIDS ARE BORN DA ARTISTS. IF THEY CAN'T FIND LOOMIS THEMSELVES THEY WERE DESTINED TO BE SHIT.

>>2080847
i liked to draw animu
i was very resistant to realistic art at the time, i thought it was boring. maybe include some lines such as 'all good artists know this including the disney ones and the anime ones'

>>2080888
>literally raising your future art contact who will later swing you a cushy job you don't actually deserve

>>2080859
Nope.
Just a random painting.

>>2080861
That new movie? Haven't watched it yet. Heard that it was good.

>>2080884
It was an idea from my friend. He has professional experience in landscape and architecture design, while I just draw and paint digitally. He wants the kids to be able to draw anything they like, which means knowing how to build using simple shapes and observational drawing.

Anyway, from my perspective, I really want the kids to have fun, while having some good work to show to their parents for it. Letting them loose like what >>2080895 said is good too, but I really do want them to learn something useful, and I want it to be somewhat different than other kiddy art class, which focuses mainly on fun.

I want to make sure they actually learn something.

Do you feel like 4 class sessions is enough for them to learn something?

>>2080888
More awesome art to see. I don't mind that.

>>2081186
I think in somewhat the same manner during that time. But I learn the importance of having a solid foundation from realism during my mid teens.

>>2080847
>the end result of them knowing the basics to drawing; mainly observational drawing, basic perspective, and basics to drawing like lines and shapes.

Seems a bit advanced for 9-10 year olds m8. Most art classes aimed at kids that age are simple step by step painting thingos.

Draw this
https://youtu.be/ECngy8yXkPo

>>2080847
Do you have any experience teaching children at all?

There was an art teacher here not too long ago that worked with kids I think
He gave some good wisdom in the 2 or 3 threads he made
I can't work out how the archive works so I can't find it but it was something like 'ask an art teacher anything'

>>2081999
I will provide them with viewfinders probably, with papers photocopied with the corresponding grid, and show them how to draw what they see. Probably going to throw in some how to measure thing using your pencil and stuff.

But I am afraid if they would become too confused, and end up not learning anything. I'll try to compress the lessons so that it would be easier, it seems.

>>2082018
Yes, KIDS ON /IC/ LMAOeehh not really. I do have experience teaching other people in my university. Even had a time when my lecturer asked me to teach the class in full duration. I do have an innate interest in teaching.

But that might be irrelevant since I feel that kids are on a whole different level. They are an immature lot, still trying to figure out life in general. They might be spoilt or ruthless in class. Maybe a kid will shit in his pants literally, I don't know. But they do need all the help they can get to learn something.

Our planned location for the art class will be an uptown area of sorts, where people of high-income reside. I should probably prepare to teach privileged, outspoken, and spoilt kid.

>>2082026
Really?
I only come to /ic/ once a month or less lately, so I'm missing a lot. Hope that he would come across this thread.

There was a thread years ago where a kid talked shit about his 50+ year old teacher/lecturer or something. I don't remember all the details, but it was filled by people from his class, and the actual teacher actually read all the replies in the thread and responded. It was amusing.

>>2082026
>>2082048
Found it. Thanks for the heads up. Will read it.
>>/ic/thread/S1941750#p1941826

With kids that age you can assign them to draw X and they'll come back to you with Y which isn't a bad thing, they'll surprise you with their creativity. My teacher runs a kids class and we chat on how creative and fun they can be. His dilemma is that the coordinator for the program is too caught up on their kids producing artwork that looks 'good' to the parents rather than the kids having fun, socialising and learning new skills.

Try not to drill into them the 'rules' of art too hard no matter how badly you want to, you'll kill the fun for them. Kids can get side tracked and talk in class so try not to have them doing the same exercise for an extended period of time. (I feel like it should be obvious not to be mean to children but /ic/ makes me wonder, they're 9-10, they can't do criticism.)

Try doing a Giuseppe Arcimboldo fruit face like pic related. Good way for them to think about shapes and how they fit together to form something, in this case, a face.

>>2080847
Simple forms in perspective, every day, every week.
If at least one of them remains interested, there's a good chance you've managed to create a future good artist. If none of them remain interested and maybe some actually start hating on art, you've weeded out future bad artists.

>>2080847
I'm kind of wanting to learn to teach kids too.

My best friends daughter is 6 years old and while she doesn't draw well I think she's very smart and creative. Generally whenever we sit down together she asks me to draw stuff for her to "copy", because she wants to draw like me.

The last time I was spending time with her she was drawing people and I noticed all her heads were the exact same oval. So I asked her if she knew anybody with a different shaped head. She said she didn't know what I meant. So I suggested "what if you drew that same person but used a different shape for a head. If you notice your dad has a more square head than your mom who has a more rounded face" So she drew a square with a smiley face. And then she started drawing all of the shapes she knew and put faces on them. Which I thought was pretty cute. It feels like whenever I make a suggestion to her or ask her a question, she thinks about it and tries to find a way to solve it. I'm a bit worried that I could become too critical or too pushy because she's so young. I don't want her to feel bad about anything but I still want her to think. So I'm still trying to come up with fun and interesting ways to introduce fundamentals.
I saw her draw a cat with like 9 legs and I asked her how many legs she thought a cat had and she told me it was obviously a demon cat and she went over it and drew horns on it.

For right now I'm just bringing up ideas to her and asking her about what basic shapes she thinks things might look like. Like "What kind of shape do you think a nose is?" and such.

I have no idea if anything I've done has helped but at the very least she seems more interested in art every time I see her.

>>2080847
Art teacher here.
Ever heard of a "knowledge bomb"? Well it's 1942 and you're London.
I’ll divide this into 2 sections, first will be about the lessons, second will be about kids in general.
>2 hours is a long time for kids that age (4th and 5th graders) so divide up your time into 2 50 min or 3 35 min sections in which you teach like 1 concept.
>Materials: Pencil, charcoal, CHALK PASTEL (kids love it and it’s super easy to render with), maybe ballpoint pen.
>Start incredibly basic and push for quality, I have 6th graders who can’t even draw anything close to a decent circle!
>DEMONSTRATIONS are the best fucking thing ever. They get kids excited to do literally anything, and the kids will pick things up from it that you wouldn’t even have thought to teach since you’ve internalized your process. Go slow, narrating everything. You will be a wizard to them, teaching magic art tricks.
>No offense intended, but their work will often suck more than you can even imagine. Don’t be afraid to break things down if the kids seem overwhelmed.
>Using value to create the illusion of 3-D form will be something they’ve literally never done before unless they have a total baller of a teacher.
>They will be able to kind of do a 1 point perspective drawing, like a road going off into the distance if you really map it out, but don’t expect anything more than that. Cubes in 1 or 2 pt perspective are hard even for 7th and 8th graders.

>>2083067
Part 2: Kids
>Assume they know literally nothing.
>Sandwich criticisms and praises together. “I really like how you did ____, but I want to see that you know/are trying to do _____.”
>Time management will be a big deal. Tell them how long they have for particular tasks. You will have some kids “finishing” 5 minutes into a 40 minute lesson. Don’t accept that, tell them they can do a much better job if they take the right amount of time.
>Behavior problems: You can’t fix these kids, but you can make your class work just fine with them in it. If they’re not doing what they’re supposed to, repeat specifically what you need them to do until they listen, breaking it down into smaller requests if needed. As far as bullying goes, talk to both kids in question separately, then together, then have one apologize to the other if that’s what’s in order.
>Art and Fear: Some will be afraid to show their art, or even try their best in the first place since art feels like such a personal thing. You will mitigate most of this by having technical, not expressive or personal lessons.
I’ll probably visit this thread most days, so feel free to ask questions.

It's dirt cheap, teaches some good concepts and aimed at the youngsters.

Don't make them do stupid boring shit.

You're going about it all wrong OP.
You should make them do random drawing assignments with no real instruction whatsoever. Or, better yet, have them paint some abstract art using random objects like pine cones and give everyone an A because art is subjective, y'know?

>>2083113
He's right kids want to be stimulated, you can throw some loomis studies at them. Just don't do nude studies, one upset soccer mom and get tou labled bad. Teach shapes, teach them techniques also be gentle kids need the little help not broken down.

>The target age will be about 9-10 year old.

> mainly observational drawing, basic
perspective, and basics to drawing like lines and shapes.

I suspect that your course is going to prove to be age-inappropriate. Kids that young literally don't have the brain development to pick up observational drawing, from what I've read. That's why kids up to about age 12-13 draw symbols instead of forms; they lack the mental capacity to critically analyze their work and realize that it's a terrible approximation of reality.

And, just imo, trying to teach young kids to be self-conscious and loathe their art like we do is a bit of a disservice. They'll get to that point eventually anyway; why not let them enjoy their uncritical drawings while they can?

If I were going to teach 9-10yos drawing, I'd teach them fun, easy symbol stuff for various things that would let them impress their friends and parents, which is the extent of their art goals at that age anyway.

>>2083195
Nah you're a bit off on ages. You can teach people in that age range to learn observational drawing. I think you are thinking of perhaps thinking in 3d, but you also have 2d observation. I doubt you'd easily teach them construction, but you can teach stuff like sight size or comparative measurement no problem. But some of the better students might even pick up basic construction.

Currently travelling around, so sorry if I can't reply quickly enough.

>>2082089
The shapes exercise sounds great. I might use it in one of the classes. One of our main goals is to show the kids how to draw anything they want, so obviously building shapes to create something is a major component to that. It also sounds fun!

I admit that I might be worried about those kids producing 'good' work for their parents, but I should let kids be kids.

>>2082099
Maybe for teenagers haha. I enjoy perspective class in school while my friends loathe it. I'm not sure it would be fun to draw forms in perspective everyday. I still haven't finished Scott Robertson's book for that very reason.

>>2082574
She sounds like a lovely kid.

Your story reminded me of my pre-school teacher who used to scold and yell at me for colouring people in orange, and for my penchant for yellow tyre cabs.

Perhaps I should think more of helping the kids with exploring and expressing their creative sides using said techniques, instead of learning them just to be better at producing a 'good' drawing.

Thanks for sharing your story.

>>2083242
>Perhaps I should think more of helping the kids with exploring and expressing their creative sides using said techniques, instead of learning them just to be better at producing a 'good' drawing.

I think this is very important.
At this age, many kids don't have a solid sense of what is good or bad, not just in art but the world in general. I think art can be used to help them rely on their own judgment more instead of being told what is "good"

At that I age, I could look at a perfectly drawn cube in perspective and not be able to wrap my mind around why this was something "good" - it looked boring.

That is why I think firing up their creativity is important at this age. They rarely judge or criticize art, least of all, their own. No matter how silly or embarrassing it might be, let them have a chance to explore all kinds of subject matter and just let it out.

There will be a time later on when they will be bogged down with technical stuff and self-criticism. Fear will eventually set in and they will remember "hey I used to draw all this crazy stuff, I used to be so imaginative, where has all that gone?" - Truth is, it hasn't gone anywhere, but that you've educated yourself with the tools and developed a sense of restraint. But childhood drawings you did when you had zero restraint can be good reminders of one's own creative potential.

Maybe I am speaking too much from personal experience, but the bottom line is that I think balance is key. In addition to technical stuff, do creative stuff.

>>2083067
>>2083097
These are golden!
I'll use these when I have the chance.
I think going slowly will be pretty important during teaching, especially since there will be kids who might have missed some steps. I remember being bummed out in class when I missed some things.

Narrating things also sounds really good. Maybe I should use intonations while showing something to emphasize some parts, and also hold their interest.

I'm thinking, for one point perspective, I would probably have them draw simple shapes or characters, maybe not even in 3d, just to get them to understand the very basics of perspective.

Encouraging them seems to be a big deal. We really want them to be confident in their drawings. Criticisms will probably be used to nudge them so that they understand something better.

I don't get the "You will mitigate most of this by having technical, not expressive or personal lessons" though, care to explain further?

Anyway, I probably have more questions about the kids themselves. I want them to be interested in what I am teaching, and also want them to be open to share their ideas and views with me if they have some in certain topics. How do you go about this? Interact and ask questions to them?

>>2083113
>>2083169
>Don't make them do stupid boring shit.
Point taken. I should be more careful then.

>>2083142
I will probably have some of those I think. Maybe do some paint splatter roscharch kinda test? Haha.

>>2083195
Noted.
But I've seen kids that age doing some pretty good observational drawing. Not perfect, just teaching them to draw what they see. It's not impossible.

>>2083263
>I don't get the "You will mitigate most of this by having technical, not expressive or personal lessons" though, care to explain further?
Sorry about the wording! What I mean is that observational drawing is less personal than drawing from imagination, so students generally have less fear with it.
>Anyway, I probably have more questions about the kids themselves. I want them to be interested in what I am teaching, and also want them to be open to share their ideas and views with me if they have some in certain topics. How do you go about this? Interact and ask questions to them?
You could do that, but an even more effective way would be to offer them like 2 choices for their next lesson which both accomplish what you're looking to teach. The thing is beginners in general, no matter what their age, don't know what they don't know. I've tried asking the kids what they want to learn/do, but you don't end up getting the nice discussion and consensus you're looking for. One kid usually spouts an idea that's not too good, a few agree/disagree, and the rest are silent.
>By the way you're literally me from 5 years ago lol. These are good questions to be asking.

>>2080847
I wouldn't expect much from kids that age group, you might have to spend the whole time just drawing shapes.
You probably also might have to tempt them into things by drawing cartoons and even my little pony for the right age group for once.

also you might want to hide some of your more deviant works if they're online, last thing you want is to have parents find out you're a pedofile

>>2082040
I always prefer the first few steps VS the polished pictures

>>2083263
>But I've seen kids that age doing some pretty good observational drawing. Not perfect, just teaching them to draw what they see. It's not impossible.

yeah, children are actually very observant they just aren't aware of how to properly apply those observations. Most children don't want to draw real things because they are in the stage where they are imitating everything. It's how they normally learn. You learn your language by imitating. You learn to walk by imitating. Etc. But drawing is different, because if you imitate others drawings you will only learn symbol drawing. So getting their head into drawing real things and observing them for what they really are is very tricky. It's tricky to do even for adults. But a lot of children's drawins while crude do often include MANY details. One thing that I noted from Betty Edwards "Drawing on the right side of the brain" is that she mentioned that when adults tried to redraw from memory an old childhood drawing, if the drawing included a house they almost always left out the doorknob on the door, but every single child who she's observed to draw a house never left it out. The book also includes her granddaughters self portraits at age 9 and 11 and they are both very well done especially for their ages. (I cannot find the images online unfortunately and I don't have a scanner)

But yeah. Kids can learn. Some are just more willing to learn than others. That's why it's probably best to work with a child/children who actually show some sort of passion for art. Every child enjoys drawing, it's something we all do. But only a few stick with it past a certain age. Sometimes they don't stick with it due to discouragement and sometimes it's just a genuine loss in interest or a preference for other hobbies.

>>2080859
kill me

>>2080861
top kek
>>2080847
I teach chess to kids that age, my only advice- they cannot listen to more than five sentences in a row, but when you let them play with something and figure it out themselves, they learn pretty quickly.

>>2080847
>1. What do you like to draw when you were 9-10 years old?

Comic book characters, action movie and video game stuff (Nintendo characters, Doom etc.), and guns/tanks/jets/boats.

Aside from comic characters (MCU and maybe a few well known DC characters) you probably aren't going to be able to get away with doing any of the other stuff.

Either it will be games that involve violence that kids parents don't know they are playing, because they don't pay attention to their kids, or the parents are likely not going to like their kids drawing guns/tanks/jets or anything involving "war".

>>2082099
This works if you're teaching at your own school.

If you're teaching as a guest in a public school or another program (summer day camp, after school programs) all this is going to get you is fired or flooded with complaints from parents.

>>2081996
>That new movie? Haven't watched it yet. Heard that it was good.
Yeah. I watched it because someone here suggested it and it was really /ic/ ideology: the movie.

>>2084935
What good would be continuing to work there if you teach fun instead of art? I'd rather get fired trying. I can take the complaints, I'm a big guy.

>>2084939
>What good would be continuing to work there if you teach fun instead of art?

Fun and art aren't mutually exclusive. But you aren't going to get anywhere putting a bunch of elementary schoolers through an atelier style program no matter how good of an idea it is. You have to adapt your programming to the audience.

>I'd rather get fired trying. I can take the complaints,

Complaints and firing are probably going to go hand in hand if you aren't actually a teacher at the school with union protections.

>I'm a big guy.

For you.

>>2084939
you don't have to be so stubborn.
if your goal is to make the kids better artists and get them into art long term, honey would be better than vinegar.
>>2084947
kek

Just got back.

>>2083269
Thanks for the further explanation. During my travels, I got to spend some time with a young daughter of a friend. We spent some time drawing, and I quickly see what you guys meant.

I guess what I need to do now is to draft a lesson plan, and maybe find some kids to practice teaching. Though that might come a lot later since I now have university business to attend to for the next couple of days.

Thank you again.

>>2083284
Haha, luckily I don't draws lewds or anything objectionable. But good point since there's been a big news regarding a young man getting caught with a ton of CP in my country. Parents have been cautionary as of late of strangers.

>>2083321
Thanks for sharing. Kids are like sponges, and absorb everything around them. They don't have egos like us adults do (we are "forced" to look competent in society at what we do), and are very open to learning.

I do hope that those kids will continue to draw even if they don't want to make it a career, since drawing is one of life's more gratifying pursuits.

>>2084666
Noted. Probably should include something more intuitive then.

>>2084929
Too bad I don't know what's currently 'in' for kids. Marvel characters seems right. There's a craze for Ben10 stuff some time ago. Better to start asking around then.