/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Maybe its because you're on the wrong board.

>>2047194

This is still about art. There's a difference between discussing that and technicalities. But nice try mr purist anal enforcer type personality person dude bro.

>while the tools for both it and 3D are exactly the same at this point?
No it isn't.

The reason people don't bother with 3D is because they don't need to and would rather put all efforts into one medium.

And the learning curve for 3D is much easier than 2D.

2d can be synthesized faster
thats it

>>2047193

2d is superior.

>>2047193
I am entirely disinterested in 3d imagery.
It's cheap and uniompressive, always looks like gay and fake as if I'm playing games again.

Even fucking toy cars on the strings with fire extinguisher jet engines from Bladerunner look a way more pleasant and convincing to me than anything 3d. All that 3d is made without any effort. You neither draw nor render anything yourself, you just tell the computer "Draw me that so I can call myself and artist"

>>2047199

>No it isn't.

Good PC+pressure sensitive tablet+expensive (likely pirated)/free software.

>The reason people don't bother with 3D is because they don't need to

You don't need photoshop either. I want to know WHAT the priorities are for the common artist, when he picks a medium--assuming characteristics of it play a role at all instead of, let's say, people settling for the 1st thing they learnt.

>And the learning curve for 3D is much easier than 2D.

Oh man, I wish.

The soft is monstrous.

>>2047232

there's a ton of strikingly beautiful and tasteful 3d work out there, it would be naive to dismiss all of it simply because 90% of 3d work is absolute garbage. which by the way is the same with 2d lol.

If I ever get to 3d, I will go with clay and stuff but as 3d printer starts getting more accessible I don't really think it's worth the effort.

>>2047237

Well you could settle for the inbetween, as vive and oculus rift are released along with their respective controllers you'll be able to sculpt "manually" with two wii-like controllers. The crude demos look pretty neat.

I respect 3d, but it's not what i'm interested in doing. Pic related, highly counterintuitive to do in 3d.

It's about what medium you're focusing on. People who draw comic books don't care about 3D, but people who develop assets for video games do. There are just some examples, yo.

Choosing something and sticking with it isn't limiting, it's necessary if you want to excel at it.

>>2047238
sounds nifty, I'll probably look into it in the future when 3d printer is affordable.

>>2047236
I still feel like this is something that's not a person's work, but machine's work.

Whatever you've drawn yourself is always more impressive, because it's rendered in your brain, brain rendered shadows and reflections that is a challenge.

>>2047239

Most things you'd consider 2D in vidya and the like are actually 2.5 or prerendered 3D tho and the trend will only increase.

Remember those old games with 2D sprites like Diablo, Torment etc.? 90% were 3D prerender.

I like the "hand drawn" look as well. Sort of hoping I'll make one like that myself someday. Virtual textures (no boring repeating tiles), prerendered high poly models. Shaders that'll give it a dreamlike quality, like point cloud.

I'm pretty confident you can make graphics looking like picrelated. It's just that devs opt in favor of low poly models with interactive lighting instead of prerendered stuff--but you could mesh that together as well I think.

>>2047245

>Whatever you've drawn yourself is always more impressive, because it's rendered in your brain, brain rendered shadows and reflections that is a challenge.

Do you approach regular sculpture in a similar fashion? That also doesn't require blocking in light and shadows.

>>2047250
regular sculpture is on a whole next level because it's
1 something you can see with your own eyes for real, oil painting is just a picture but this is a thing
2 crazy amount of hard and unforgiving work of making a 3d thing with your own hands.

With ZBrush you can spin it around and add or remove or reshape volume im mirror mode.
With real sculpture you only remove and it's one way work without any machine aid.

>>2047253

>With ZBrush you can spin it around and add or remove or reshape volume im mirror mode.
With real sculpture you only remove

It's like you've never even heard of clay.

>>2047253

>something you can see with your own eyes for real

...As opposed to something you see through a viewport? It's still a three dimensional object, guy.

>crazy amount of hard and unforgiving work of making a 3d thing with your own hands.

Err... It's not all carving marble. Clay isn't that unforgiving. You move onto that when you have a lot of experience under your belt. Only people who start with stone are bona fide mason apprentices I think.

>With ZBrush you can spin it around and add or remove or reshape volume im mirror mode.

Besides mirror mode you can do the same with polyclay.

>With real sculpture you only remove and it's one way work without any machine aid.

Okay, you seriously need to look into how sculpting in polymer clay looks like. I'm really hoping you're a troll at this point. For your sake. The contact embarrassment is real.

Sculpting anatomy is the easiest way to learn it and everyone should do it.

I use a 3D poser to pose accurate figures quickly and then trace them in Photoshop. It's a great way to get proportionally perfect figures in amazing time in at any perspective you want.

Just another means to an end.

>>2047235
>Good PC+pressure sensitive tablet+expensive (likely pirated)/free software.
The software isn't the same, which is one of the reasons why 2D artists don't just pick up 3D when you need to learn an entirely different program. That was the point.
>You don't need photoshop either.
You clearly missed the point. 2D artists don't need to create 3D shit.
>I want to know WHAT the priorities are for the common artist
Already explained, there's often not enough reason to + it's time consuming when they can just devote all their effort and time into bettering themselves with 2D.
>The soft is monstrous.
Yes, but the actual 3D isn't. Actually learning how to draw and paint well is significantly harder and more time demanding than learning how to model and (zBrush/Mudbox/etc) sculpt.

>>2047193
if that is your work OP you are laughably bad.

>>2047193
I stick to 2d art for a few reasons...

1) My computer can't handle 3d. It can run SketchUp but that's about it. Even Sculptris is too heavy for my computer to handle.

2) I don't like the look of 3d, and am mostly interested in 2d illustration.

3) 2d is easy to learn--you can literally just start painting on one layer with a round brush and get fine results. 3d is a bit intimidating since it seems like there are many more technical things and I get the impression it is more complex to learn and less intuitive over all.

That being said, I think there are merits to learning 3d, and it's something I will probably invest some time into at a later date, though it will be for the sole purpose of improving my 2d art.

>>2047277
>I use a 3D poser to pose accurate figures quickly and then trace them in Photoshop.
They must look like shit.

>>2047277

mind posting some samples? this could be a timesaver for porn work.

I don't like 3D because its too complicated for me. I can't just do art with my feelings n shit. I have to do fucking maths. Count the vertices, watch out that the rings fit. Watch out for those mesh errors you only notice when its too late. extrude those fucking triangles. watch the fucking edgeflow. Its like pushing buttons and pulling levers, and that's not fun for me.

>>2047329

2d is the same. edges, angles, perspective, occlusion, form and cast shadows, surface specularity and color temperature shifts... it's all still very much there. there is just no interface indicating numbers and shit.

>>2047329
There's very little math. No math at all if you're just sculpting.

>>2047328
here

>>2047341
That really does look traced.

Stop doing that and learn how to construct figures properly.

Takes way fucking longer to sculpt than paint for anyone that actually knows how to paint.

>>2047300

>Yes, but the actual 3D isn't.

Everything else is the same exact shit. You need to know the same stuff. Gesture, anatomy. Nearly every 3D artist also draws reasonably well because of it. That's usually how they start to begin with. You can see it when a generalist makes something from the ground up, starting with concept art.

>there's often not enough reason to + it's time consuming when they can just devote all their effort and time into bettering themselves with 2D.

The "need to put all my eggs in one basket" rationalization is based on a fallacy, that being the software is a significant portion of mastering the medium or that the medium itself requires a drastically different skillset. Meanwhile >90% of skills relevant to digital painting carry over to sculpture (not to mention texturing).

PS

>>2047329

>Its like pushing buttons and pulling levers, and that's not fun for me.

This is actually the first convincing reason I've read here.

>>2047341
>>2047343
It really looks traced and like a soulless doll, don't get me wrong here, you can use whatever method you want but reference is only good to check your
proportions, if you don't learn gesture and stylisation properly you will never amount to anything.

It really just depends on what your interests are. I'd love to eventually get in to 3D since I want to make my own games and I'm not a 2D purist, I know that using only 2D would limit me.

Not every artist wants to work in vidya though.

>>2047232
Absolutely agree.

>>2047236
>lol
Stop being butthurt and go to the board completely dedicated to you /3/

>>2047236
dat booty

>>2047418

>3D is for vidya

2D is for Hanna-Barbera cartoons.

>>2047431
Your obvious /v/ butthurt response would have made more sense if they were talking about (traditional) animation.

>>2047431
Honestly I kind of think it is, IMHO movies and illustration are far superior when done with 2D.

>>2047442

>obvious /v/ butthurt
>/v/
>not vidya

Now that's some broken logic right here. Couldn't wait with the crossboard bullshit could you?Only people who dwell those boards to begin with ever reference it and expect it to mean something to everyone.

Most 4chan doesn't frequent /v/ and neither do I. Get a grip, /v/tard. :^)

>>2047456

Most studios would disagree (but never say so not to offend the nostalgia fags).

For everything that isn't a still 3D has obvious advantages and it's reflected in modern animation.

>>2047466
>all that defensive rambling
I'm not retracting my comment.

Enjoy this nice image however. I think the guy made a small animation with it but he added some weird cloak or hoodie and I wasn't too fond of that.

>>2047193
Mostly misconseptions about how brutal on hardware, expensive and time consuming 3D software actually is.

If there was a SAI or Gimp for 3D modeling a lot of noobs would have made the jump to ZBrush/Maya already.

>>2047193
majority of good 3d sculptors are also good at 2d drawing. I don't think being good at 3d came first. if you build a strong artistic foundation then it will be a lot easier to translate them into 3d rather than someone with no artistic ability who flat out jumps into 3d sculpting programs and doodle.

>>2047493

>retarded ad hominem aimed at an anon
>get an adequate response
>"muh defensive rambling, u--u-u m-mad bro?!"
>proceeds with a random unrequested image and thinks he's making a point

>>2047512

There's Sculptris, it's actually simpler than Sketchbook, SAI... Hell, it's simpler than MS Paint. Problem is if it's actually useful beyond dicking around with meshes. Can't tell personally as I didn't revisit it ina long long while.

Blender would be the all purpose free software, but I hear it's as much of a clusterfuck of a UI as the nonfree alternatives (not that it matters much, piracy regins supreme).

>>2047619
Now you're just trying too hard.

>>2047619
Now you're just trying too hard.

Learn the differences between an ad-hominem and an insult by the way, because I used the latter.

>>2047641

kek Nope. You tried to use it to invalidate what I said.

>Learn

That's rich.

>>2047646
The insult cannot invalidate what you've said because I told you why it was stupid right after, ergo it's not an ad-hominem.

Really, do learn what it is. Alternatively, get reading comprehension if you thought the insult was the counterargument of that sentence. You're making yourself look genuinely foolish.

I never enjoyed pottery or clay and stuff. I would do it if I liked it though. It seems too different to me

>>2047653

>I told you why it was stupid right after

You mean that invalid pretentious remark stipulating that an analogy has to be 100% symmetrical to be correct? Oh dear, I'm sorry but I haven't realized you considered that an actual argument, just part of yoru shit talkign routine.

Well then: my analogy is still correct, as it refers to a narrow application of a very broad medium.

>Really, do learn what it is.

I know what it is, it's just you being a pretentious twit who can't write coherently.

>>2047653

>I told you why it was stupid right after

Oh dear, I'm sorry, I did not realize you considered that brain fart an actual argument.

Well then: my analogy is still correct, as it refers to a narrow application of a very broad medium. It doesn't have to appease your autism by being any more precise to get the point across.

>Really, do learn what it is.

I know what the term describes, it's just you being a pretentious twit with no communication skills.

>>2047685
"Counterargument" was a stretch indeed, but I couldn't think of anything else at that time.

If you don't agree with whatever that's fine, just don't cry about a-a-ad-hominems!! when one wasn't even presented, or that weird ass mental gymnastics about the /v/ comment because that seemed to hit you on a very personal note. It does make you look really defensive about it.

Last post I'm making because I'm not dragging this argument any further. Feel free to disagree or whatever the fuck.

>>2047193
By looking at the replies in the thread its a massive case of misconception.

I do both 3D and 2D equally and both have separate challenges, but both have an equally high skill ceiling and neither should be considered superior.

Also saying digital is inferior equally applies to tools such as Photoshop.

Pic related, my current WIP.

>>2047198
I actually do performance and video art, as well as sculpture. Does that have a place on this board? It's still artwork, and I'd still like critiques on it

>>2047193
I used to post very regularly on /ic/ but have moven away from 2D much in favour of 3D sclpting in zbrush.
to address some of the points in your post
>Can you tell me why so many people limit themselves to 2D digital art exclusively,
As someons said, it's not 'limiting', if you want to excel in painting its necessary to specialise and master that craft, only in 3D is it limiting to ignore 2D as drawing is a very fundamental skill for any artist including photographers and designers etc.
>steeper learning curve?
I dont think this is true at all, drawing and painting have an INCREDIBLY steep learning curve, sculpting in zbrush (I will be just talking about digital sculpting when I refer to 3D here as poly-modelling isn't even remotely similar to drawing or painting)
>Or is it something else, like misconceptions about how 3D art is made? Or some ideas of what's a worthy medium?
It looks like this might be a problem though by the looks of this thread, I guess some people are very narrow minded amateurs who think painting is this divine skill and that digital sculpting is 'easy' just because the computer does some of the work for you.

sculpting IS a lot easier than painting, but I dont see why that matters, the only thing that is important to me is mastering a creative skill to the point of not having my creativity limited by my skills, and if I can reach that point faster in digital sculpting then that is just great. I will continue to work on my drawing and painting skills but I am focussing on sculpting now as I see it as the most realistic course of action for success for me.

>>2047732
That's not a "misconception", that's /ic/'s usual elitism. You can see similar posts directed at any number of things. There's an entire thread in the catalog filled with posts about how you can't draw gesture on a tablet because it's a machine and you can't feeeel it.

It's not even a board thing, the whole website is like that.

To be fair, though, op being retarded is what caused this. He was baiting from the start.

>>2047732
>sculpting IS a lot easier than painting

You what anon? Sculpting a figure is in your opinion easier than drawing/painting it from ref? You never ever get a proper 1:1 ref for 3d sculpt unless you already have a 3d model of the thing you want to sculpt, and to sculpt human body properly your knowledge of anatomy has to be FAR greater than the one required to just draw it from one angle.

3D sculpting is actually a great exercise. I can't tell you how many students avoid their anatomy classes, but once we push them into sculpting 3D anatomy they finally begin to understand how muscles turn and how each interact with eachother. 3D sculpting is much more difficult than 2d illustration. Not only do you have to study practice, and figure out your shapes, you need to completely learn the program and be able to be as proficient in the program along side your skills.

Now 3D technique is derived from 2D proficiency, the difference is hard surface in programs like maya which is all technical and require no sculpting. Though in programs like Zbrush your anatomy knowledge and drawing skills directly transfer.

Now before you start your heart felt and hate held argument, you need to understand that many students learn from doing. Their is no Superior program itself 2D is just as neccessary as 3D, awhile ago we didn't have Zbrush and forced student to sculpt out of clay which in honesty only anatomy knowledge transferred not drawing ability. If you have an complaints about 3d sculpting and which is better it's all opinionated and though what you like.

Just remember though that 3d sculpting skills and technique is just as taxing and requires time to learn like 2D.

>>2047193
i think it's probably just because chiaroscuro and suchlike is so important early in drawing that it kinda feels like using 3d models kinda does the important bit for you.

i'm sure even the denizens of /ic/ will use a bit of 3d once they're happy with their drawing skills.

i personally have done a bit of zbrush, i find it frustrating because i want to use my whole hands, it'd just be so much easier. if someone invents a way to do that then i'd do it allll the time.

weirdly sometimes i do fake 3d like this one for fun.

>>2047277
>I use a 3D poser to pose accurate figures quickly

Good thinking, it's a useful too-
>then trace them in Photoshop

Nigger what the fuck are you doing.

>>2049055
Honestly if you can cut your time in half doing this, tracing a 3D model... Mine aswell if you dont cheat you fall behind and when you fall behind 100 cheaters are already ahead of you.

>>2049026
maybe it's all down to personal prefrence but I find it a lot easier to sculpt muscles and general anatomy on a turnable sculpt than to draw them in perspective. I don't see what reference has to do with it, you don't need to sculpt in any kind of dramatic pose so you don't even need much reference, you can just pose the model at the end when you're done and twek muscle positions and creasing which you can easily find reference for if you don't already know how muscle and fat reacts to certain movements.

Also there are plenty of 3D scans that make very good reference for sculpting and drawing. Typical of /ic/ to think that anatomy is everything but in drawing you need to understand perspective, line weight/brushwork, gesture, foreshortening etc.

>>2047193

>>2047193

Why don't you just take a photo?

>>2049072
yea, but it comes at a price, and the price is never gaining an understanding of the anatomy and also never gaining ones own style and enderstanding of line and edge control and pretty much everything else that is not tracing.
tracing is never a good long term stratergie.
art is a marathon buddy, and tracing is like sprinting as fast as you can in the first 20 seconds.
sure you will look goof as fuck to all the other runners for the first 20 seconds, but then everyone else will over take you through actual training and pasing themselves, leaving you with a bunch of decent looking traces and no actual unique art with any sence of style or personality.

>all these art snobs

Looking forward to working with 3D one day, OP. Right now I'm still trying to gitgud at drawan.

It's just another tool to express myself, as is digital painting. And I think the artistic potential that you can tell with 3D (especially with VR coming up) is insane. I'm still stunned at the art design people are coming out in modern video games.

Fuck the closed minded plebs in this thread. Movies are inferior to theatre too, right?

>>2047193
>Do people venture into it but get burned by the steeper learning curve?

I don't think you should be claiming it has a steeper learning curve. But on the learning side there's some things I can see people not wanting to bother learning, like maps and rigging and a lot of stuff that gets pretty technical and not exactly intuitive. Though a lot of those things have gotten easier over the years I think.

Personally the only reason why I'm not adding 3d to my workflow is just because I don't know how to make it fit. With characters when it comes to the final image I just have far more control just drawing it out. Stuff like gesture and the shape design of any form in the drawing is literally a couple of strokes in 2d while in 3d you actually have to build up the form. Of course in 3d you can easily change up the view and a lot of things once you made the form, but that's rarely an issue in 2d because that's decided early.
So far the only use I give 3d is setting up a couple of models if I'm drawing something with multiple characters. Its probably useful if you have to draw guns and cars and such stuff often like you can just drop in a model on your illustration, but so far I had no need for that.

>>2047739
>you can't draw gesture on a tablet because it's a machine and you can't feeeel it.
the fuck?

>>2052657
movies are inferior to the theatre, but cinema isn't.

i have fun with 2D, 3D feels like a mission

>mfw 3d is the new modern art gate
>mfw i'm jumping in the train to see wherever it goes
>mfw the future seems bright

>>2049557
>Read post below
>>2049036

In all Honesty it comes down to your clients, and Who or where you work. Of course you should still study and build your ability and proficiency. Though look at artist like Paul Kwon in order to speed the process he may sometimes throw a 3D model in just to save 30 or 45mins to make his deadlines.

>>2047193
3D is more for being injected into another medium like gaymes/movies while 2D has a lot more pratical, cheap and short term applications.

Also, stop lying the tools couldn't be more different, the only thing both mediums have in common is the drawing tablet.