/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>1978814
damn man already improving. I was gonna red line your last spray bottle but it looks like you're getting a hang of it. Wonderful!

>>1978814
The stickies dead, I think we should discuss how to fix it. Any suggestions?

>>1978883
See >>1975012

>>1978896
oh I missed that post, thanks

Bumping.

>>1979123
You don't need to bump at 2am, m8.

>>1979127
He doesn't need to bump threads on /ic/ period, this is a very slow board and unless no one responds for about a week, the thread will die.

Also you guys might wanna try the study in the study thread: >>1976373

First time poster; I'll bite. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

A few of sketches I did in the past hour.

>>1979211

>>1979211
There are lots of things to work on, but since it's your first time at the rodeo, I'll try not to over do it.

>solve your chicken scratch lines by drawing in pen. Use a thick pen to start out, and as you improve progressively move to a thinner size
>at this point drawing a lot is going to do you the most good (as opposed to trying to study the bazillion things in the sticky). Draw at least 5 pages of shit a day
>find a comfort zone, and just draw in it to log the hours. It looks like your faces are stronger than your figures, start with faces to warm up, and then tackle the harder stuff outside your comfort zone.
>draw bigger, it will help with line confidence
>when you take a picture of your stuff use a brighter light if your camera has bad low light performance. Also try to white balance the image - looks kind green now.

I expect great things from you, don't let me down

>>1979249
Thank you! I'll post some other stuff tomorrow.

So I've been working on figures, critique is greatly appreciated.
First time poster too

I have a question, how do i improve my linework, I'm tired of doing stuff and then you can see all the lines, ive tried coloring them but it looks all the same. wtf do i do?

Been drawing for about a week with no real guidance. Can someone give commentary on this?

>>1979271
>>1979322
Symbol drawing everywhere. They are at level of 10 year old doodle. You shouldn't draw contour of object, contour should be outcome of forms placed in 3D space. Sticky is dead right now, but there should be thread somewhere where is copy of it.

Right now both of you should concern about symbol drawing, chicken scratch and forms. Watch Proko's videos about forms in 3D, and then go up to the next level, bean, robo bean etc.

Also, look up how to measure your drawing.

>>1979293
I assume you are talking about digital. Use your tablet for absolutely everything, not only drawing, use it as your mouse. Now important stuff.
1) Look up video of ctrl+paint about holding your stylus. Hold it this way, it will be unconfortable at the begining, but you get used to this. He also has some videos about linework wich should be helpful.
2) Check out Peter Han exercises, it is for ballpen, but it works also for digital. Do this everyday, you can look up for some other exercises on the internet, there is plenty.
3) Draw a lot.

well?

>>1979322
Needs more loomis.
Kidding, you need to stop doodling. Get some Loomis books
>>1979271
Pretty good but work on face more

>>1979383
Flip your image first. Head and neck are too big, you should also more define muscles of the neck. Overall the the neck and head area look together like head of the match. Work with big brush, 100% opacity, 100% flow first with pressure sensitivity connected to the opacity. When you define major forms , then you go with smaller brush.

Check out his videos, they are quite inspirational:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFtrMzYBLvY

>>1979403
yeah i noticed the head was off a bit. i haven't put as much detail as i plan into the upper body. but overall am i heading in the right direction? this is only my second color study. also, for the skirt i was going to paint with a gradient map, is it common to break up parts of a painting and use different techniques to paint or no? i just wanted to practice with it.

thanks for the video. ill check it out soon

>>1979420
If you are doing color study, check out this video then:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wjw2fnFTTo

It will be more helpful

>for the skirt i was going to paint with a gradient map, is it common to break up parts of a painting and use different techniques to paint or no? i just wanted to practice with it.

For this check out the first video. Dude made like over 100 layers, dor example, head is diffrent layer, one arm is diffrent layer etc.The key is to get the correct shape, and then in photoshop over the layer menu you have the button "lock transparent layer". This way you only paint the shape that you made, which is extremly helpful.

>>1979424
wow thanks for the tip. i was actually wondering how that would work. and thanks for the vid too. ill keep working and git gud one day

>>1979373
>>1979392
On the one hand people say draw what you see, on the other hand people say use this technical perspective shit.

>>1979439
You need to train your eye to "see" these things. Simply drawing what you see at a low level will only create symbol drawing as beginners have no real definition of what shapes to use.

Once they've trained their eye, those shapes become more apparent.

you >>1979442
you can only see what you know theres no eye training is bullshit the eye can only see what you know about.
learn how to draw from your imagination

>>1979439
One method help with drawing from reference, other one help you with drawing from imagination (and from reference too). Both are just tools to create image, use them wisely and you will get desired effect.

i should been more careful.

>>1979451
Looks like an old Chinese woman.

>>1979451
pro tip eliminate lines (your dark shadows) make them softer, but fake it, make it look like a baby.

>>1979451
>vietcong who just ate a lemon

>>1979451
I lack basic measurments. Compare how large is skull and jaw. You made jaw waay too big, so it looks more like old person. Shadows are also in wrong place, top of the forhead is in light, then underneath forehead and eyes are in shade, and then again cheeks in light etc

>>1979466
kek

hey /ic/ I'm getting into art as a side hobby of mine and thinking of investing in a cheap tablet since my desk area is poorly designed for drawing on paper. Do you guys think its a worthwhile investment to buy a cheap one such as a wapcom bamboo series?

First time poster here, got back into drawing after an unnecessary hiatus. I've been gesture drawings after watching a few Proko and other videos on it, and I think figure drawing is what I should be focusing on right now.

I've been going through the sticky (that isn't broken) but I'm just not sure what I should be focusing on at the moment. Should I draw more slow and anatomical drawings with gesture drawings in breaks? Or should I get some other fundamentals down?

Pic related, it's a drawing of my hand I recently did.

>>1979573
God damn image posted upside down but you get the idea.

>>1979451
>>1979471
It's also over-rendered.

Babies sometimes have that "old man" face, and if you try and render their portrait too faithfully it'll look weird.

A lot of that face shading could be toned down or even removed, sometimes it's about what you don't draw.

>>1979573
Go through Vilppu Manual & videos and Proko videos. Don't stop on gesture, but tackle basic forms. Start with spherical forms on Vilppu and bean on Proko. In meantime do gesture drawings, but doesnt focus solely on them. Don't try to "master" every drawing step, when you feel you know enogh go to next subject, but if it will be too hard yet, just come back to the previous subject.

>>1979594
Much appreciated, thanks

>>1979594
What if someone does, say, Proko and Hampton?

>>1979598
I forgot about Hampton. I would say that more sources then better. Hampton book is really great, but it lacks a little when it comes to basic principles, like forms. But his anatomy is the best of the bunch. I think that it would be better to go with Vilppu /Proko first and then with Hampton, or read it simultaneously, using his depiction of anatomy to exercise drawing forms. If you want you can go even Hampton+Loomis+Vilppu+Proko. Every teacher has diffrent aproach, this way you can chose which suits you better.

>>1979598
Not him but that should work perfectly fine too. Instead of studying loomis, i'd rather Study Villpu-Proko-Hampton

>>1979614
>>1979617

Thanks for the info.
I'm just now entering Gestures and seen the first week of Hampton's class and looking up Proko's videos. I notice Vilppu has a few books out there, but which would should I pick up first that's related to this subject? I still feel like a total beginner on this (hence why I'm here), but as I continue to draw gestures with Hampton's method, the more I see progression.

Practising my cross hatching

Hey, are there any small art communities for beginners who are willing to practice? The thing is the best way to get motivation is to have a drawing group. I know this to well when i did other things.

>>1979671
Online? If only I knew. I know groups like this at random art stores that get together and study among themselves.

babys first try at enviorment painting, I think I chosea bit more than I could handle for my first try.

what's the most simple and basic way to draw a forest and a river? I just want something really simple in terms of a Thumbnail quality.

>>1979248
god i hate when people draw these clusterfucks of nothing and then go and draw an actual drawing and it looks like shit

I've found my biggest problem with perspective is that I can't draw it from observation easily. So if I want to draw a box from imagination I can, but If I'm LOOKING at a box its way more difficult, since I have to account for the direction of the vanishing points or the size of the object, or the way it's edges curve downwards, etc.

Like right now I'm in the part of Perspective Made Easy where you have to draw a building out of bricks. And I can't even draw the bricks.

Should I just practice more? Am I overthinking things? This is frustrating.

>>1979988
You're over thinking it. Or perhaps, you should get yourself two bricks, stack it on top of each other, look at it from different angels and see if you can picture buildings from imagination (not draw them).

Draw 2 bricks right now and post results.

I just replaced paint tool sai with photoshop and im having some trouble blending.
I downloaded some blending brushes but they all look like shitte. Maybe im doing something wrong.
Also a study i did yesterday

>painting from life
>1 hour in
>I'm still blocking in and colors are still off
It feels so shitty to be slow :/
I hope that with practice I'll gain some speed.
I'll work on this more tomorrow.

>>1979905
Anyone?

>>1979322
It fucking sucks, and qualifying it with "oh I just started drawing by sticking the pencil in my asshole yesterday" isn't going to make it better. Just keep drawing and reading and watching videos about drawing.

>>1979271
First tip: don't sign studies, it's retarded.

Second tip: don't spend more time working on your signature than your drawing.

>>1979248
Good gesture but remember line economy.

>>1980026
thanks for the tough love.

>>1979965
get out of this thread

>>1979880
whatever you're doing keep doing it, good use of values and what not. This is arguable but the scribble has a nice painterly feel about it, most people want to have line economy, which means thicker brushes. I'd say dont worry about it, it's looking good.

If I had to crit id say clump more areas together. Like in the far distance. Use atmospheric perspective? Maybe warmer lights. On the ground. did you use a picture, let me look at the ref, if you used a picture.

Not work bro.

>>1979988
it's not just you, cubic shapes are extremely difficult to get accurate.

messed up my sketch by trying to make a water effect around her. Any tips?

I did some more cloth practices the other day. What do ya think?

>>1979668
It looks sloppy anon.

I see you tried to angle the lines, but you could really do a much better job at showing the form of the face instead of just using it for values.

Try crosshatching on spheres and try and make them look round.

>>1980240

Thanks for the critique Anon, saved your pic to have an example to work off...

Would you say I'm on the right track with trying to angle the line to convey form?

Sometimes I try curving the lines themselves but it always ends up looking terrible.

>>1980250
You don't always have to have the lines suggest form, It helps, but heres Andy Brase, in the two face drawing, almost all of the line work is at a 45 degree angle. He used value, dark and light, to suggest form.

In the top right he has two with all the lines angled in the same direction, towards the bottom center.

The yoda line work is more on the planes of the form.

>>1980240
The first one is a brush pen, its a bit more loose see how the lines taper?

But you're on the right track, the last thing you want is to have it conflict with the form.

Inkings hard work man, it's easier if you do your sketch first in pencil, then clean it up with a lead pencil and only draw the lines that your going to ink.

Don't worry about them looking terrible, yeah it might come out that way, but confident line work looks better.

>>1980265
Lastly, this is a cross contour drawing. The lines follow the surface and easily suggest form. You can do a simple cross contour on your drawing before you ink it to get a general Idea of the directions of your lines.

>>1980230
Tried fixing my mess up with just black. Reminds me of tar.

>>1980265

This is good stuff, screencapped the posts, saved the pics and I'll be putting it to good use.

Cheers again, I do appreciate it.

>>1980269
Her arms are really thick man. Its really flat, looks like you didn't spend any time on it.

I would suggest you work on your drawing skills more before you go to inking. Your inked lines are real spotty you can see all the places you slowed down and the ink started to pool.

Don't hide hands because they're hard to draw, and your water looked more like water before you made solid black.

>>1980275
Thanks for the advice, will take more time.

Simple would be basic shapes anon, here is some photos with a photoshop filter.

When your blocking in objects like a forest, don't think of it as , tree, tree, tree. Its a tree line and the leaves blend together in a sense.

These have somewhat complicated edges but it is only 10 colors.

Tackle it like your other thumb nails, block in the big shapes first and don't even think about details.

>>1980275
Is it possible to use ink but keep the shading pencil?

I just started out. I have a severe problem of line insecurity and end up chicken scratching a lot or erasing tons of lines until I get them "right", even during exercises. Should I switch to pen? What tips can you give me to solve these issues, especially the erasing lines one?

>>1980315
try it

protip: don't be precious

Anyone interested in helping me stay motivated? In turn I'll help you stay motivated.
Would prefer someone who has worse art than me.
All I've done is half of betty and a quarter of keys to drawing.

Skype is cabuws if you add me put something the contact request so I'll know your from /ic/ and not an old Indian guy.

>>1980315
Jake Parker sketches in Orange pencil and inks over it. I like the way it looks

How do I make my lineart better in photoshop? I don't want to start studying how to render until my lines are strong especially after reading through >>1979654, but I don't have any way of cleanly transferring any traditional linework onto my computer. I'm working on a 10X6.25 Monoprice tablet, if the drawing space makes any difference.

>>1980237
Nice, how come you always like to use the aged paper BG?

>>1980338
Just keep going. If you're a beginner, why do you expect to be the best on your first try?

>>1978814
still trying to unlearn all the shit i "learned" over the last few years, would these be correct-ish? no feet, ran out of room.

>>1980315

I see you're giving effort here. Try not to death grip the pencil. Do nice easy strokes that move your arm, not the wrist. You'll have a much better composition. Keep drawing! :)

First time trying charcoal, really enjoyable; probably my new favorite medium

>>1980398
What were you trying to draw here?

Another first for me was scratch art, sketched it out with pencil first and had a reference. It's supposed to be alien

>>1980390
I don't I'm really lazy and unmotivated. I've never learned any skills or anything and I want to learn to draw because I want to be good at something. I keep getting caught in these stupid thought loops like "it's all pointless just give up" and then next week I'll try again but it always ends up the same.

>>1980405
proportion i guess, im not like the rest of you drawing fucking masterworks as a beginner.

>>1980409
You need to draw every day, otherwise you'll never improve. Just continue. If you lose motivation so easily, then ask yourself why you even want to draw to begin with. Where do you see yourself in 5 years with your drawing abilities?

Drawing isn't for everyone.
Anyone can draw (unless physical disabilities occur), but it isn't for everyone in the sense that maybe you're too big of a bitch to start.

>>1980410
No one is a master here, we are all beginners.
Now, that isn't a very clear answers. Proportions, "you guess"? If you're not sure what you're drawing, then how should we know?

>>1980414
Yeah that's the problem I'm too big of a bitch. Tried so many things I don't like doing any of them.
Fuck it I'll go back to being braindead all the time in front of my monitor.
Peace

>>1979998
Tips for a neat blending, anyone?
Halp ;_;

>>1980414
i really wan't drawing anything, i just wanted to know if things were too long or short. trying to get my proportions right before I delve into other shit.

Anyone know a good place to upload files without having to register an account?

I remembered that I saved the sticky a few years back and I managed to find it. Not sure if anyone else has provided a copy of the sticky.

>>1980430
So you weren't trying to draw anything, but you wanted to make sure your "nothing" was correct. Great responses.

For one, since you don't know what you're drawing, it's going to be shit. Before you draw ANY human model, you'll need to ask yourself:
"What is my character doing?
"Why is it here?"
"What is it about to do?"

If you can't answer all three of those questions, then don't draw the character. Here's an image I posted that should help you with the female human anatomy to make sure everything is of measure, but before you even tackle this subject, please pick up one of the two books:
Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain
Or get Keys to Drawing.

>>1980434
i just wanted to draw something to figure if i had it right or not. i have a character i want to draw, but it's late and i don't want to do it right now. thank you though for the advice.

>>1980447
Well you didn't have it right since you yourself weren't sure if it was right. And since that's the case, the drawing failed before it even started.

Now read those books and fuck off.

>>1980451
so i should only come back when i know something isn't right because i spent time learning?

>>1980104
the reference file.

And yeap will continue doing it.

whats the best figure drawing book other than loomis, i didnt really like the way he taught it

>>1980527
Hampton, vilppu drawing manual, and Proko's guide which can be found here

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtG4P3lq8RHGuMuprDarMz_Y9Fbw_d2ws

this is also a really good video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa_2rL1K1mg

Once you've finished going through all them, go back to Loomis.

>>1979880
vol. 2

Gestures for today, pretty happy with some of them, but feel like i could push them much more

>super bored right now
>still dont want to draw because i get frustrated
what do?

>>1980685
learning to form things with your imagination is a skill you need to develop. you can study all the fundamentals in the world but if you dont work that creative muscle the studies wont help you. personally what helps me is using large shapes and then i refine it as i work, kind of like working with clay. the more you do it you will eventually develop a process that gets you desirable results.

>>1978814
How to draw balls, folds and rounded edges?

>>1980661
and attempts to contain figure in basic spherical forms, still needs more Vilppu

I tried to draw something that would take time and effort after just sketching and practicing for a week.

Took me around 3 hours, 2 for the composition and the proportions, and the rest for the faces and the final outlines. It shows, seeing as how the proportions are the only proper thing on the drawing, and the faces and outlines are and rushed and unsatisfactory.

Hercules' face took at least 15 tries so the paper below was almost unusable, which is the reason for its non-likeness to the original (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Antonio_del_Pollaiolo_-_Hercules_and_Antaeus_-_WGA18030.jpg).).

Also I'd love if someone could help me deconstruct his expression, it's something in the eyes and I just can't figure it out, even when I tried to trace it to analyze it. (bottom-left one http://i.imgur.com/B944rXD.jpg))

>>1980420
http://a.pomf.se/ymptuj.webm

Question about hatching: what to do with my hand?

My natural attempt at shading is one continuous zigzag line, but every hatch I see has individual yet incredibly parallel lines. Do I just lift my hand up at the end of each zigzag or is there something else? How is it supposed to look?

First time tablet please go easy on me.

>>1980743
>please go easy on me

Heh...

>>1980743
This is bait, isn't it?

No, pls help improve.

>>1980772
Try drawing something that isn't an eye bleed. Draw a realistic dog or person.

Pen or pencil to start out as a complete beginner?

>>1980705
unnoticed

>>1980784
Both.
Drawing in pencil cause... you don't make a lot of ugly marks on your paper. Draw in Pen to train yourself not to erase. Re-drawing takes up a lot of time.

What am I doing wrong here, /ic/? I feel like I'm just wasting time copying shadow shapes and this isn't strengthening my understanding of planes and rendering, even though I'm trying to analyse why the light falls on it the way it does.

How should I be approaching this?

>>1980544
very good, and thanks for the other one. I think i might work on one of these. Assuming you got it from the wikimedia set?

I think you're getting the hang of it, I'm sure there is definitely something to work on. I kind of like the "inky" brush strokes you have going, but if you're going more realistic, maybe lump them together, simplify, get some softer strokes in. I love it man!

Today's still lives, not happy with them

>>1980983

>>1980315
>>1980269
You need to have more confidence in your lines, as in drawing the curves of her hair, back, shoulder, etc. with one, graceful curve.
It seems you make your lines slowly and carefully, making them kind of choppy.

It takes time to build that confidence with a pen or marker, but if you have a pencil underdrawing that helps a lot.

Anything say "Why the fuck are you doing that?", to you? I don't have a teacher so I don't really have a standard or knowledge on how to learn to draw better; if you know what I mean by that verbal diarrhea. I feel like I understand the concept of figure drawing, but when I practice I cannot ever get it right...

>>1980005
>2 hours in
>still blocking in and colors are still off
At least I learned something: 1 hour a day is clearly not enough to make it.
I'll work on this more tomorrow.
(sorry for annoying you with my WIPs, but by posting here I feel much more motivated to actually work. Feel free to hide it.)

>>1981021
>still blocking in and colors are still off
dude, Ima let you finish, but do these instead
>>1980299
spend less than 20 minutes on each for a couple weeks.

That lemon is going to be your bitch next time.

>>1981021
You can think of it like riding a bike.

If you're looking to exercise, riding a bike for one hour a day is an excellent way to get in shape. If you've never ridden a bike though, you'll have to take some time to learn first.

Stupid question time : what exactly happens when someone sits? I'm having trouble understanding the pelvis and spine...talking about a "basic" way of sitting. At least to start with.

>>1981021
Keep at it, anon. You're doing well.

I am trying to improve general clarity and quality of mark making in shading and line drawing. what are some good things to look at or do to help this specially.

Can I learn to draw?
I mean I'm taking orgo right now and I struggle with even doing 3d representations of ring systems and that's just 6 lines.
But I really want to learn to draw.

>>1980885
Take a look at the head construction chapter of Hampton's book. You can combine the information from there with your lighting studies and then further apply it to studying actual heads. Basically you should learn the simplified head planes first and then use those planes to inform your drawing of more realistic heads. You're on the right track.

Met someone on flockdraw last night. "green text man" If you want to speak with me PM sirach on the irc channel.

Hi, im an intermediate beginner. I'm using referencing, and doing loads of gesture drawings and studies, and I actually feel like I'm making a break-through! However, this flip-flopping about using references on here, has made me question myself, so much do that when I look at a referencing I feel like I'm doing something wrong. So, is using references OK?

>>1981228
yes. next question.

>>1981220
Will do.. Soon. Give me a few

>>1978814

....Critique? I do realize that everything is wrong with it..but how do I fix??

>>1981243
Any idea on why the
>>yes reference!
>>no reference!
Bitching has came up over this past week?

>>1980544
Vol. 3

>>1981308
show me the post where it says dont use reference and i will give you a $10,000 whore to lick your dirty pussy.

Quit making shit up asshole.

Hey Shoeface

>>1981392
To be fair to Anon, good job you didn't check out the Kr0n threads this past week, because people were saying exactly that .

>>1981411
>>/ic/

then look for it.

>>1981392
i believe the post in question suggested drawing without a reference first, and then going back and fixing that drawing with reference. And then repeating the exercise until you can do it without the reference

>>1981420
That's a frequently posted and well documented post introduced by an old /ic/ user. It's an exercise for building up your memory bank. It requires using proper reference to "patch up" mistakes.

It's so frequently posted it's on the front page of google when you look up tehmeh.

The only people who talked about not using reference, were insecure newbies. No sensible person has ever said "DONT USE REFERENCE ITS CHEATING"

You see this picture? Look up Stuart Immonen. And look up Muddy Colors.
This is a great example of using every resource imaginable to craft an image. Not only did he change most of the elements. But he shot his own reference. It means he could LEGALLY trace and paint it, and no one could ever call him out.

>>1981220
im there. 'grotesk' .. cant find you. but ill leave it open just in case you come back.

>>1979614
Wouldn't learning all those have conflicting styles?

By the way, what exactly does Loomis' Successful Drawing teach? I remember being told to read that before tackling figure drawing, but since my class is jumping into figure drawing, I'm basically force to learn Vilppu and so on. But what does Successful Drawing have to offer to help in that subject?

some nice anon told me i should study proportion
so.. i'm trying to improve... but i honestly never studied/learn art before
i just ref-drew a pic that anon posted, but i'm not so sure if this is right way to improve my drawing skill
>and this doesnt look so great...
how do i study proportion?
even really basic advice will help me out
im literally blank on art

>>1981621
why did you name it samura?

>>1981621
It takes a while to ingrain it into your head mostly because it's a culmination of your knowledge of anatomy and your technical skills at depicting form. It's good practice to study ideal proportions and and to be knowledgeable about it but keep in mind that proportion charts are not just for instruction but mainly for reference to help you fix a drawing. You might get more out of it by drawing a figure from reference and using a chart to help correct your mistakes.

>>1981627
dunno, some random word
>>1981629
i see thank you very much!
so basically i need to ref draw real life pictures of people gesturing to improve at proportion, right?

>>1981637
The more you draw the better you'll get just so long as you keep proportions in mind. Learn bony landmarks, make your own shortcuts and methods and just keep drawing.

>>1981676
Would reading vilppu help with this?

>>1981683
i'm the samura guy
i just found out about a guy named "Sycra", and his tutorials are helping me a lot, check it out.
here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxZbsLBd3oU

I don't understand the measuring tools discussed in keys to drawing my drawings are too big than I intended

>>1981759
Here's the reference

>>1981621
practice i did today after learning all sorts of things

still not good, but i feel like i took a step closer
special thanks to those who helped me out

.

>>1981992
I started to do gesture drawing yesterday,I have done it before a couple of times last year tho. I did this today, do you think it's fine like this, /ic/?

Please forgive me, I know it's shit. I did it in about 15 minutes with a mouse. I'm practicing color theory and creating a palette quickly, so I was just concerned about blocking in colors, not making a non ayy lmao piece. How's this?

>>1982019
Use a dimmer highlight color. Not pure white.

>>1982020
Her left cheek looks off. Is it because of all the highlight?

>>1981281
as a newfag drawer, I recommend you start by copying someone elses shit, find a sketch and just copy it, do that thing where you draw the image of that man upside down, can't remember what it's called. You'll realize everything you did wrong as you go. I did.

>>1981999
Not bad. My question to Gesture drawings is how do you go about making it look better?

I just started Gesture Drawings, and my 1 minute drawings look like my 3 minute drawings. Haven't read Vilppu's manual yet, I should check that out.

Can anyone give me tips on what I'm doing wrong with the left side of the face? I can't get it to look like anything other than a total mess...

>>1982051
do the same as you did on the right side. You don't have to copy the photo 100%. and the bone structure of the two sides is normally the same. you just have to shade it differently according to the light.

Trying to step up my Vilppu game. Three step figure drawings
1)Gesture
2)Form containment in simple spheres
3)Basic box construction

I rushed the last step, I feel pretty confident with the rest. Need to draw more box form

I have bought Keys to Drawing and Perspective Made Easy. I started to draw a week or so ago and I'm still doing upside down Stravinsky. When should I move on studying the books? Should I get drawing with the right side of the brain?

>>1982053

Thanks, I had both sides the same and tried smoothing the planes on the left but I guess I just need more practice with it.

Finished for now, I think this is as good as it'll get with my current level of skill. Any pointers on things I missed and can improve on with the next image?

>>1982032

Awful advice. If you're starting out the best thing you can do is begin by learning basic structure from Andrew Loomis' "Fun with a Pencil" and "Figure Drawing for All It's Worth". You won't learn anything from copying art until you know what to look for.

The upside-down man exercise is from Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. That picture you posted is a sketchy mess, if you drew it build more confidence in your lines.

>>1981209

Thank you! I'll look it up.

how would you recommend moving on to figure drawing? I did some perspective drawings, mostly just cylinders, and boxes.

Should I try learning objects in life first? I know there are no rules about it, but I dont wanna jump into figure drawing and anatomy too early, and skipping something important. however, I am not so interested in boxy forms like cars, buildings, etc. Any advice would be good, thank you!

>>1982162

Apply the came concepts behind the cylinders, boxes and spheres to human anatomy - just as the guy around five posts before this one has done. All of the parts of the body can be broken down into basic shapes, check out the Proko guides for more information and start constructing figures once you've learned about the primary landmarks of the body (head, torso, hips - how they're connected via the spine, length and proportion of the limbs, and so on).

>>1982180
oh yeah I didn't see that post. I am not soo good with cylinders and spheres tough, do you think that is a big disadvantage in figure drawings?

It's not the laziness talking, but I feel like you dont really have to know how to draw a perfect cylinder or box, in order to apply it to the figure. You have to construct them better when drawing objects?

Fuck it I'll bite

First time I've ever even been to /ic/

It's not even real
Just moths with bullshit designs on them

>>1982197
Phones are retarded and too lazy to rotate

fucking off page vanishing points are driving me nuts
what techniques should i be using

>>1982208
If using photosjop, warch this video, if traditional you are fucked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHO0h3nNM2s

Is this the right approach for drawing that spatula in perspective?

>>1982252
use the line tool to check

>>1982252
get more lines going, make a perspective grid. And also find the middle line of the box.

>captcha: infro

>>1982252
>>1982261
Also this:
http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?p=272300

>>1982252
Perspective looks like a HUGE spatula.

>>1982252
>>1982266
the fuck is wrong with you guys
that's a ladle

>>1982266
.. or viewed from very close

>>1982265
Thanks

>>1982275
Thanks, I've been calling it a spatula for the past 2 days like a complete retard

>>1982261
Is it really helpful to have a grid for just 1 object? I feel like that would be useful if I was drawing everything on my desk but for 1 object it seems like overkill. Or are you suggesting it because my lines are bad?

>>1978814
Are you following any book or just sketching from reality with whatever knowledge you have?

Trying to understand how I would draw this in perspective. Suppose I'm looking down at a book on my desk (shown on the left). Getting the vanishing point and horizon line is easy.

Now I bring another book in front of me and tilt it as shown in the picture on the right. How do I establish the vanishing points for that book? I know the red lines will converge to a VP on the left, and the purple lines to a VP on the right. The green lines will converge to a VP towards the top. My question is how do I place these VPs and how do I find the "horizon line" for this book?

>>1982367
Mostly just sketching but I'm also loosely following some ctrl+paint videos. I read (not thoroughly) Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling

>>1982367
Mostly just sketching but I'm also loosely following some ctrl+paint videos. I read (not thoroughly) Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling

>>1980381
idk, i like the traditional look. I dont like looking at a blank white when im drawing, but the warm orangey white is really soothing to my eyes

hi fellow beginners. i'm using keys to drawing right now, and somebody recommended me a book on perspective to follow along with. would any of you guys know what they were maybe talking about?

>>1982716
Perspective Made Easy by Ernest Norling

>>1982736
yes that's it, thanks friend

Ribbon study I guess . . . I dunno how i feel about it.

>>1982784
It's meh, but your use of the medium is solid. Mixing white and black charcoal can look like a disaster sometimes.

>>1982784
It probably would have been wiser to use a mid-tone for the background and then push the contrast of the ribbon's values. If the darkest part of the subject is still much lighter than the background, it's going to kill the spatial feeling you're going for.

Spent way too much time on this. Like, days. Then when lines weren't lining up, I made shit up, and I was too scared to do the hands and face. I also don't know if I'm understanding the line shading completely.

>>1982197
>first time on board and already a tripfag

>>1982890
Some of us are rolling out and trying to git good.

unlike bones

>>1982901
>talking shit about bones
you're not welcome here
learn 2 board culture

>>1982907
Oh Fuck! Might as well respect him as the hero of /ic/. And I apologizing for shitposting.

>>1982912
hero of /ic/ and /co/ and deviantart and theduckwebcomics and anywhere else you can post free of charge. all of is forgiven for this misunderstanding.

>>1982915
Thanks. Maybe he be a friend for me someday.

>>1982915
>>1982920
>>1982912
>>1982907
>>1982901

>>1982940
>somebody was mad enough to catalogue all this shit

bones wins again
bones wins every time

>>1982944
>mad

>>1981992

>>1981992
.

First time. Please go easy on me.

>>1983097
Why not just use reference

>>1982888
Nice try but there's much shit fucked up.
Shouldn't have spent days on it. Do the opposite now. Do a lot of small stuff. Move on when you fuck up something.

>and I was too scared to do the hands and face.
Do pages with hundred (well, the most you can)
heads and hands. I know it's hard, I know you don't uynderstand them. I don't care. DO IT.
(look up asaro heads for heads)

>>1982369
Think about the ground, where is your ground and the horizon line for you in the photo.

>>1983106
it was a reference drawing, I didn't draw it from imagination or anything, I get the feeling that's what you think for some reason.

how do you represent a grassy field on the grand scale using pencil and paper

>>1979998
R E S I Z E

E

S

I

Z

E

>>1983121
It looks referenced and it's irrelevant to the advice he gave you.

When I started out I would also spend a lot of time rendering a drawing even if I didn't understand parts of it. The result is a minimal gain of knowledge in exchange of a large time investment. If instead of rendering this across several days, you had drawn 100 statues, faces, and hands, you'd be much more comfortable drawing hands and faces now.

first time posting

Picked up digital drawing ~10 days ago, before this 0 experience drawing
I draw between 1 and 4 hours a day depending on when I get too frustrated with the fact I can't draw for shit and how much time I have.
At the moment I "warm up" doing a line control exercise like the ctrlpaint video, I (try to) draw a still life of w/e I have laying around and then add imaginary details on it, then I do the 3d drawing over an animal to get it's forms from the ctrlpaint video.
This takes about an 1-1.5 hour then I watch the next ctrlpaint video and do the exercise shown in the video.

As you might have figured out I'm following the ctrlpaint videos.
I feel the guy explains things pretty well and I hate reading (rather have YT tutorials or something instead of a book)

couple of questions
Is this a sustainable way of learning to draw better than a 6 year old?
Should I just skip the exercises that I have no idea how to begin with? I just saw the ctrlpaint video on exaggeration - I can't fucking draw that shit yet -
Is learning this way going to take longer than a year before being able to draw those exaggerations?
Are my lines shit cause I have parkinson's, hold my stylus wrong or cause I'm a noob?

Pic related - drew this a couple days ago, the only thing I have saved cause everything else is equally shitty and I'm not proud of it
I know I fucked up on the mug's handle and the scissors blade

/blog

>>1983304
you're doing it right. Keep drawing.

Make 10 more like this.

gestures of various time limits

just trying to avoid scribbling and ctrl+z as much as possible, but I don't feel very confident with finding the forms either

>>1983457
What are you reading up to learn Gestures?

>>1983458
the watts figure drawing pdf and "fundamentals of drawing from life"

I got the Proko videos too but I wanted to do some of these before getting into them since I haven't done gestures for a while now

>>1983464
Could you provide more info as to which book from Watts?

Also, you're talking about Bridgman's fundamentals of drawing from Life, correct?

>>1983304
I decided to try and pick up drawing about two months ago and got myself a tablet at around the same time. I quickly felt regret over my tablet purchase because it turns out trying to learn both how to draw and how to use a tablet at the same is really fucking hard.

So what I did was I got myself some cheap drawing supplies and did the drawing exercises on a physical sketchbook instead, which was a whole lot more enjoyable. Started off by trying to unteach myself symbol drawing, moved on to perspective and after that gesture drawing.

It was around the gesture drawing exercises that I decided to try using my tablet again and because gestures are quick and sloppy and don't require much accuracy it turned out being a great way of getting comfortable with the stylus and tablet without getting frustrated. After just a few days of these gesture drawing sessions I already started feeling a lot more confident using it, and I've since moved on to doing most of my drawing digitally without feeling limited by the tablet.

So basically, from a beginner to another beginner, my advice would be to use traditional physical media to grasp the very core fundamentals of drawing and then move on to using the tablet intensively for a week or two to get over that first hump. Divide it up so that you're either learning art fundamentals or familiarizing yourself with your tablet, but not both at the same time.

Oh, and your lines are shit because you are most likely drawing them too slowly. You want to do them in large, quick strokes (using your shoulders). Again, confidence using a tablet plays a huge role here so try practicing your strokes with a pencil and paper first.

>>1983304
Do Peter Han exercises, also watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHefdroQdDo

Once soemone posted link to tumblr with very handful exercises, Im' using them to this day, but I can't find original image. Anyway, check out "(Karl Christian Heuser) Freehand Drawing & Sketching" there are some great exercises you should do daily for warmup. With practice it will get better.

>>1983474
Watts - http://www.erikgist.com/ErikGist_WattsAtelierFigureTutorial.pdf
the fundamentals book - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2017174/FODFL.pdf.torrent

>>1983482
Thank you, anon.

>>1983478
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk

Is there a version of Loomis's books that have the important things to read highlighted?

Also when I do a figure study either with an online image or an irl friend it turns out relatively okay, but when I try to do a human (basic objects are usually okay, though) from scratch it's like I forget everything. Should I look at Figure Drawing by Loomis or is there something else I should do?

>>1983492
honestly though, loomis is way too overrated, his works can do wonder for some people, but most of the time it helps at nothing. do check his figure for all it's worth, it contains some interesting info for when you live study. keep practicing proportions and you'll be able to draw poses and people without references.

>>1983492
im not saying skip the loomis books

but think about it this way. Since loomis... there has been HUNDREDS of new sources that sprang out and simplified what you need to know.

I'll be honest, I read a bit of loomis, looked at the pretty drawings, did my share of copying the high heeled pinup girls. Successful painter is ok, i just didnt get around to finishing the whole thing, cause.... i'm supposed to be drawing and I kind of get it by now. Elements of art, principles, anatomy, draw from life. Don't trace on a projector.

>>1983548
>>1983556
What about the second question?

>>1983562
it means you don't know how to build anything yet. that's what it means.
>do a human (basic objects are usually okay, though) from scratch it's like I forget everything.
look at whatever it takes to build the human. Anatomy helps, figure drawing helps.

I say you start with some vilppu, and combine with Kevin Chen stuff. These are both very noob friendly ways of drawing people.

>>1983492
>Is there a version of Loomis's books that have the important things to read highlighted?
Not that I know of. Highlight it yourself as you go through it. Imagine you're studying for a college level course. Highlight the important bits so that down the road you can just read what you highlighted and recall most of the text. Pay attention to the header of each section, and look for the point being made in each paragraph. Look up studying tips (in a general education sense) if you need further help processing textbooks.

>but when I try to do a human (basic objects are usually okay, though) from scratch it's like I forget everything.
That's normal, and it's related to understanding what you're drawing. Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uT_xZInet4

You need to understand and memorize the proportions of the figure, it's major masses, the ranges of motion, boney landmarks, and eventually muscle origin and insertion points for the ones that are visible on the nude figure. Bridgman's Constructive Anatomy, Hampton's book, and Vilppu's anatomy videos will all help.

>>1983607
>>1983592

Thanks guys. This Kevin Chen guy is actually really useful resource.

>>1983607
>>1983592
Oh ye another thing: my sorta art mentor says to look up studies of musculature and even though I can draw shapes such as cubes and cylinders fine in 3d space, he's says that constructing people out of shapes is bad practice. But is it? Because I'm looking at these musculature studies and I'm just confused about how to translate these drawings into different perspectives.

Why do the eyes on this girl Im drawing look so off

>>1982888
Drawing is crooked and the head is far too large.

>>1983678
Too much eyeliner at the bottom/waterline

I need a lil bit of loomis in my life

started drawing about 3 days ago, haven't drawn anything in the last 3 or 4 years since i got out of highschool, can i get some feedback on this?

>>1983827
>Got worse

I wonder how this happens.
Regardless, you need Loomis.

>>1983833
yeah i disliked how the face and right hand ended up looking in the cammy drawing.
oh well, ill just keep on drawing whatever on my free time, its kinda fun

First time actually trying not to run away from hands...Oh boy, the road's gonna be long. Each is like 1-2 mn (ref from my hand)

First time actually trying not to run away from hands...Oh boy, the road's gonna be long. Each is like 1-2 mn (ref from my hand)

I put in the hours today ic

>>1982019 Here
I'm still doing practicing color theory shit so this time I did a speed painting. I'm really pleased with it, since I've never done something so quickly with a mouse, in MSpaint in an hour.

I need /ic/ to knock me down a few pegs since I'm feeling like hot shit.

>>1983910
http://37.media.tumblr.com/d9b98d7ac9a19f127d4e7c1cf28debb8/tumblr_n2mfqhifR21rjw0mwo1_1280.jpg
http://www.drawninblack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Hand-Anatomy-Plate-from-Grays-Anatomy.jpg
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/117/6/f/Human_Anatomy___Hand_by_HaloGoddess1.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/090531fafe9ba6278464e77d5fa88c7f/tumblr_myv1v6g1YV1rjw0mwo3_500.jpg

first time doing gesture drawings or anything with a tablet for that matter. Complete beginner, gonna start working my way through Loomis and Vilppu (first time hearing about them, thanks /ic/, any more tips since the sticky's dead?) tmw since I'm completely knackered right now. Couple of questions, sorry for being a complete faggot
1) How can I improve my gesture drawings? I just can't seem to get the entire pose in the 30 seconds - 1 minute time limit
2) Is there an exercise I can do to get over the chicken scratch? It's a habit I've had forever and it's really hard to break out of atm
3) Do you guys prefer using Paint Tool Sai or PS? I have more experiencing in PS for colouring things, but Sai feels a lot nicer to sketch and draw with, though I still don't know how to ink/lineart things properly...

apologies for the shit everything

>>1984265
>Is there an exercise I can do to get over the chicken scratch?
Peter Han
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk

>Do you guys prefer using Paint Tool Sai or PS?
Chose what you like more. Of course there are some differences, but no bad tool here, tools are just something you chose.
MangaStudio, PTsai, PS, anything works really, just depends on your preferences.

>>1984265
Solving your issue for #2 may also help your problem with #1. All that chicken scratching does take up a lot of time.

However, the gestures aren't terrible per-say for someone who hasn't looked into Loomis or Vilppu. Are these gestures among your personal method or something else?

How do I stay motivated and avoid getting overwhelmed? I've always wanted to pick up drawing but the sheer amount of information and books is overwhelming. Currently the only starting point I have is to work through Loomis' books on sketching and figure-drawing.

I feel more lost because I'm not a complete beginner to art so I have a lot of scattered knowledge and habits. I drew obsessively until I was around 15 and I've been painting miniatures for years now. Is it worth just trying to forget everything I know and starting with the complete essentials?

>>1984313
Could you show us what you're drawings currently look like? With this, we can determined what level you're at and possibly go on from there.

>>1984265
Don't draw every anatomical bump of the body and stop with chicken scratch. Look for Peter Han videso, and exercise your lines every day as a warmup.

Think of the stretching and pinching of the body and make them focus of your gesture. Think of the single longest lin you could draw through the body, and then "build-up" on it.
Watch this video, Proko has at leat 4 videos on the gesture, watch them all, try to copy his drawings, and then analyze them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ktfwayByRU

Remember, there is no right way to do gestures, every artist has its method. For example Vilppu uses lines like a river fowing through the body.

PS. In the Proko video I've posted, the first nickname he read, "loliman777", I'm pretty sure what this guy is trying to draw...

>>1984371
Drawing more lines for placement helps out on perspective. I can't tell why I'm relying on toy dolls for proportions, even understanding the figure. Perhaps its the time for me to study.

Still practicing anatomy.

>>1984409
Any advice or feedback?

>>1984411
Make the nipples way bigger and draw some fuckin milk shootin out of em!

>>1984415
Sorry I'm not going to take request. I'm also not into lactating. Forgive me~

>>1984411
Don't even worry about anatomy yet, it's not going to give you returns worth the investment at this point in your development. Study gesture and construction first. Download Hampton's book and/or CGMA class and go through that to help you understand how the body works. Also you really need to stop using such sketchy lines, if you do really need to lay down a lot of strokes to find the right line, do them lightly first and then go over with a single confident stroke.

>>1982032
>holo
my nigga

Trying out the exercises in Michael Hampton's book and noticed that I seem to have very poor line control, and everything I do comes out rough and looks like I'm rushing through it when I'm not. Is this something I'll fix naturally as I get more practice?

>>1984489
I assume you're drawing on a tablet, not a Cintiq, right? Sure it will improve, but I've never become sufficiently comfortable doing the line stuff on a tablet, other people do though. Do you get better results on paper? Oh and a lot of those ellipses appear more eye-like than circular. It can't hurt to establish a definitive perspective context, and I'd recommend drawing all ellipses through as full circles, then you can still emphasize the part that would be visible or in front.

>>1984489
>>1984518
Also I'm not sure what the Hampton exercise is, but the point of the cross thing is usually to signify a square plane. If the plane is angled in perspective, the plane's center would not be in the center of the line on the canvas, it would be further away from the viewpoint. So the ellipses at the bottom left and rights aren't really circles in perspective, they're just ellipses viewed from the front.

Try drawing full square planes in perspective first with the 2 center lines and 4 corners to put the ellipses in. It should also help with seeing the perspective, the cross is more like a shorthand

>>1984177
I applaud your patience but why not use/get a tablet for convenience?

>>1983827
next time you're not taking notes. Draw the backs of your classmates heads, and your teachers instead.

If graph paper is all you have. But a strathmore or canson spiralbound sketchbook, or a stack of printing paper. Get a ballpoint pen and draw some fruit and basic objects, don't try to draw a spiral bulb, or an art deco chair. Draw fruit apples oranges bananas, maybe the soda can, don't try to draw the logo, just draw the main shape of the object. Even if you draw one thing, Post your results.

Oh another thing, make sure to draw it small for now. From that I can determine what you could study next.

Hey! Is there a good book/pdf on studying (the basic) forms? like the basic construction on forms, and then addig cross contours and shading to them? or is form something you would learn by drawing from life?

Trying to see color in everything more, and also practicing heads, digital painting, expressions, etc.

Painted this pretty quick, an hour painting then 30 minutes cleaning it up a bit. How are the colors, etc?

I know that the eyes are on a different plane than the nose and mouth, and the hair is shit.

tried to get back into face practice again. How much do you guys draw from reference and fhow much from ratio? also critic me pls

getting back into drawing took a break from it, any sugestions on how to go about improving .

>>1984598
Guy to thr right is small in your picture, but bigger in ref, also has bigger jaw and stuff...sorry I'm not good can't describe what's wrong exactly. Hair volume too, maybe, nose and ear too small...

Hey guys, just wanted some advice on how to proceed with the body. I'm still not very good at drawing bodies that look proportonate to the head and also help with the hair flow would be greatly apprrciated.

I'm clearly doing something wrong. Can someone help me?

>>1984756
draw on smooth paper
first learn how to realistic and then stylize.
sorry mate, you have to learn the basics first

>>1984313
When you feel overwhelmed just do what you're studying to do. Draw. The greatest thing about drawing is knowing there is no boundry or preconception to how things are done. Instead of trying to learn from scratch just expand on what you do know.

>>1984759
Try filling in with actual muscles, flesh and what not. You should be able to quickly see what went wrong.

>>1984766
It's okay. I just draw on instinct, so could you point me as to where to start?

Which muscle is that?

There's just some many muscles connecting to the scapula is hard to tell which one I'm looking at.

>>1984773
>I just draw on instinct

Yea no.
To determined your level, try drawing something realistic such as a human face/body, or even some fake fruit. Use references for now, and post results from what you drew and the references.

From there, it's easy to determined your level and books to help you improve can be provided.

>>1984785
i believe thats a bunch of 3 small muscles overlapping eachother..

Hello, I am a stupid retard, don't you hate my drawing? Yeah, I do too, it looks fucking ugly and I'm drawing in symbols. Can you tell me more about how to fix it without mentioning what I have already named?

>>1984807
See? Only a stupid retard would have two pictures named madoka in her folders.

>>1984807
Everybody draws in symbols you fucking imbecile, a line is a symbol, a shade is a symbol

>>1984821
You what now?
What is a shade a symbol of? Or a line?
Tell me more, I'm sincerely interested in how you've dismantled hundreds of years of artistic progression.

>>1984837
Symbols don't have to have singular fixed meanings, they can mean lots of different things in various contexts. If you draw a gesture and then add more lines to show form, that's a set of symbols, not something that you "see" or that exists in reality, it's just you using symbols to communicate your interpretation of a perception. Clown

>>1984821
go fuck yourself, this site sucks. Everytime I post a picture I'm insulted and giving an unhelpful critique "It's shympbolhs!!!" without explaining why AND IT JUST FIGURES IF I SAY BEFOREHAND THAT IT'S SYMBOLS YOU TALK FUCKING SHIT. NOTHING IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU BITCHES. WHY ARE YOU GUYS EVEN HERE? THIS BOARD SHOULDN'T BE NAMED ARTWORK/CRITIQUE, IT SHOULD JUST BE CALLED ARTWORK.

>>1984785
Searching your answer is actually helping me get more educated about the back now. Funny how that works.

It's a combination of muscles that blanket the scupula(being the major form anyway) and overlap each other. When one activates, it seems to take on the form more than the others, depending on what function the person is using the muscle for. In this case he raised his arm and is stabilizing it in place for a picture. A lot of deltoid activation. He's also stabilizing a lot of back muscles. It's cool lighting, but I can't quite see too much of what is there.

Some body builders do develop differently on the muscles there. But the section you're circling is a lot of tendons and muscles intersecting and overlapping each other. They are part rhomboid, part infraspinatus, and partly teres major. These muscles serve the most important function for lifting and rotating your arms. The rotator cuff group of muscles.

This website highlights each muscle area. As I said, now I'm looking for myself to find more information about the back and arms.
http://www.realbodywork.com/learn/learn.htm

>>1984853
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8

>>1984853
http://loomisloves.us/wiki/Symbol_Drawing

>>1984811
Her head is too small, she's lacking in ears and there's no indication of her left foot disturbing the flow of her dress at the back. I'm sure a better artist than me could point more out.

>>1984861
What a dumbass article. You cannot "draw what you see". If you're drawing lines and contours, you're already drawing something that YOU ARE NOT SEEING AND WHICH DOES NOT EXIST.
Imbeciles everywhere
Read Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters ffs

>>1984860
>>1984861

God.. I know what symbol drawing is. But people here on /ic/ use it as a buzzword all the time, and when they say symbol drawing they don't even point out which part of the person I'm drawing is wrong. Is it all symbols? Even the fucking elbow on the right? When actually the only thing wrong with the picture was the hands or waist. It doesn't help me to fix it at all.

>>1984868
Thanks man.

Am I doing this right (perspective)?

>>1984882
Oh I can point it out. But isn't it obvious?

What is symbol drawing anon? And which one is your drawing?

>>1984899
>But isn't it obvious?
NO IT FUCKING ISN'T FOR ME. IF IT WAS I WOULDN'T BE ASKING.

When you don't truly understand the form you're drawing and you're just drawing 'symbols' of what you think the form you are drawing looks like.

>which one is your drawing?

hahaha. The one that doesn't look like a screenshot from madoka magica

>>1984882
Ok I found it. So you're aware of symbol drawing, But I circled some areas for you to look at. It looks like you're attempting semi-realism. Given the extra detail and proportion in your drawing.

So the areas i quickly circled, I'd classify as symbol drawing. You "THINK" you know what that looks like, so you're relying on back logs of information in your mind, symbols. That's the best way to describe it. You drew flat hair with no forms or overlap, even >>1984807 has some overlap in the hair, despite being a flat, cartoon drawing. It's essence is well represented.

Your entire drawing is super flat, but look at the right hand, it's formless and the only overlap is the middle finger. The breasts, is that what they would look like, or is that what you THINK is what they look like.

No form or depth in the left knee, the frills in the underdress is super flat, that's not what they would look like. Symbolic frills.

Worst of all the dress tails there. You clearly did that wrong, that's where you use overlap, the volume is clearly wrong.

Looks like you were aware of symbols in the face and tried to get that right. There's some semblance of depth, but the under plane of the nose is flat and somewhat symbolic. Eyebrows unconnected to the brow of the skull? The lids of the eye you probably got somewhat correct, but it's still a symbol of being aware of symbols. You think you know that lids go around the ball of the eye. But where is the ball of the eye anon?

You basically got a lot of things wrong. Aggressively challenged everybody. And want to be spoonfed on your boring drawing.

>>1984909
>>1984908
So how do we combat symbol drawing?

Life drawing. Still lives, figure drawing. Breaking things down into their most simple forms and planes. that way even if you invent or attempt something with limited knowledge. You can be sure it will look right in space. You will no longer be symbolizing. You will be relying on principles and fundamental drawing elements.

>>1984909
Thank you. Beyond to contrary belief it doesn't bother me when someone criticizes my drawings. It's when they can't even muster up enough words than 'symbols' that I get mad.

I've posted a lot better drawings than that one and not gotten any critiques on it. At all. And that is so annoying since I put so much time in the drawing (I didn't here though, maybe 30 min). I've resorted to posting the same drawing in 3 or 4 individual threads and get a total of one comment from it, which is most likely ''symbol drawing!''. I've asked nicely, I've critiqued(well and in depth) 6 drawings in a row and asked someone else to critique mine and get nothing at all.

I've tried a lot of methods to get feedback, change my style, try to ditch lineart, go from cell-shading to painting, and nothing really works. So I really don't know what to do anymore.

Any reaction I get is when I throw a fit and tell people to fuck off. This is infuriating.

However your critique was in depth and very well explained and that is very appreciated. Thanks again.

>>1984842
>a thing that represents or stands for something else, especially a material object representing something abstract.

Symbols do have set meanings. 'X' always means 'X' but the symbol X is not X itself, or an imitation of it. It's meaning is fluid insofar as perception of it varies.

Compare to imitation:
>a thing intended to simulate or copy something else.

So, if you are creating something to stand for something else, not trying imitate the appearance of the thing, you are working symbolically.
A poor imitation can look symbolic.

For example: a value is not a symbol of value, it IS value.
A line is not a symbol of a line, it IS a line.

Value can be quantified and defined as the amplitude of a light wave, line can not easily be quantified or defined (excluding mathematics). THEY BOTH EXIST IN REALITY.

Imitating something is a description, a shorthand representation of something is a symbol. A description is never the thing described.

Learn the difference between calling me a clown and a clown a clown.

>>1984921

Cunningham's law, m8. The best way to get the right answer is not to ask for it, but to post the wrong answer. Or on 4chan the best way to get people to respond to your shit is to act like just a big enough douche nozzle that it isn't obvious bait. That way you get people fucking compelled to prove your shit wrong or to call you out on your shit and give you detailed explanations as to why you're wrong and you're an asshole.

>>1984930
I can't wait to be good enough that people have to message me on my facebook fan page. It must be paradise for the top artists who managed to escape intermediate and beginner hell.

>>1984578
I am, I'm just waiting in the mail for it.

>>1984914
"Simples forms and planes" are symbols for god's sake. You cannot "combat" symbol drawing, you can just improve the quality of your visual communication. It's like saying that we should stop using language because when babies talk it sounds really dumb and they're using language too so obviously the way to not be a baby is to never use words at all

>>1984924
Ay, words always mean the same thing regardless of context or intent, each word can only have one meaning, great semiotics m8 i rate 8/8

>Using dictionary definitions of well-known words to argue
What a fucking pleb

>lines exist in reality
>cross-hatching exists in reality
this nigga high thou

>>1984946
huh? I don't think you added anything of real value.

>>1984946
Rose has two meanings. So does crane.
Same symbol, no?

It seems to me like you still don't understand the difference between a symbol and a description.

By the way, forms and planes are not symbols, they may be abstract concepts, easily defined mathematically, but are not symbolic. They actually exist and are subject to natural law.

>>1984946
What's with the baby analogy. The flip out girl isn't a baby she's some teenage loon that doesn't want to read.

A baby doesn't know shit, they're little retards that jump out of windows and lick electrical sockets.

>>1984983
what kind of hardcore baby are you living with?

>>1984990
This lil niglet pulls out 1,000 tissues a day and tries to eat spicey hard food when he has no teeth.

>>1984997
jeaysus. start training him for mma now.

Could I maybe get some feedback?
I'm hoping to use the lines for guidance and make this into an actual digital painting.

>>1984770
I tried adding muscles, but i'm too new for this. Anyways, his mid section and left arm are looking bad. Any help?

>>1985071

If you're not going for accuracy with the lineart, you should try to pick values that match the reference. Pic related, I did very loose lines underneath to get the basic pose and defined the form with rough values.

Either way, neither of those things should be done randomly. Try to understand and angles and planes of the reference. If you keep trying to copy willy nilly, you'll eventually do a better copy. That's shit reward.

Study that motherfucker, try to understand the form. Do several smaller sketches if you need to get the proportions right, then move on to the actual drawing. You're studying, don't rush towards the conclusion.

Guys, what about a hangout for beginners, would anyone be up for it? No need for talking, just sharing what we do and maybe give some direct advices together would be ok. I think this could be motivating, not sure.
Also I never do this lind of stuff so I don't know what the best way is, Hangouts? Any alternative?

>>1984361
What I'm wondering is what's the best way to determined proportion? My gestures seem to come off uneven, having some parts larger than usual, and when I do add contour onto it, well, it looks mis-proportioned.

Any tips or info on how to improve on this?

i missed this thread and made my own here are some recent drawing if anyone would like to critique

>>1985185

>>1985188

>>1985192

>>1985145
Thanks Anon. I would like to go for lines and value in this study though.

I will start my next study with some smaller drawings because everyone can always use the practice. I won't forget to lay down a background next time either.

A little more red in the face and I think I can lay down the freckles and get to work on the fabric of her coat.

>>1983701
Ok thank you

>>1984597
Damn I like that shading

>>1983457
definitely not as clean today

Would you guys give a shit if I put on a trip for posts in this thread? So people could recognize my work more easily since I have no defined style yet.

>>1985370
Don't care. Some faggots will rage since this is 4chun but do it if you find it useful for you.

>>1985372

I think I'll just do an imgur album to keep track of progress for anyone who cares. This way I don't incite any autists.

okay so here's my progress. i used a gradient map to paint the skirt because i wanted some practice. i didn't quite get the colors right but it looks decent. the problem is it's throwing off the way the colors look for the bottom half. should i repaint the skirt or no? could i do better play with the colors in the gradient map? go ahead and finish it as is?

So, how is it coming? Are the proportions right? The head looks a bit off and I also need to work on perspective but, anyways, any comments?

>>1985703
head is small, arms seem to short. the back arm is too small

>>1985737
Thanks. I'll work on that in the morning

went on /fa/ to sketch some clothes.
Can't really see any patterns in the folds in some areas.

some more, and a greek sculpture.

>>1981923
i think im making progress
i feel good about myself
motivation is gud

New >>1985831

>>1984265
anon here, thanks for the tips, guys! the Peter Han video was super helpful and I've started to get over the chicken scratch.

Watched Proko's videos, currently practicing 2min gesture drawings and it's hard but w/e practice makes perfect

Here's my second practice, any more advice would be great. I think I'm still trying to draw the contours rather than the "motion", what do you think? Most likely I'll figure out precisely what the flow/motion is, but any advice on how to avoid that would be great

(thanks for the advice again guys, makes me feel a lot more confident about drawing)