/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

there are a few, but think about your post for a second. why on gods green earth would anyone post any of them on /ic/?

this is why we cant have nice things

>>1970966
>What would be some better communities for artists?
Use google. Use google or duckduckgo and run while you still can.

permanoobs
crimsondaggers
drawordie
alternate chans

>>1970969
I don't understand, is /ic/ some kind of exclusive club? Why would anyone have a reason NOT to post about or recommend other more positive art communities?

>>1970978

Hes saying that the other sites should be kept secret from the types of people who lurk on /ic/, not that /ic/ should be kept secret.

>>1970981

Eh, 4chan is a unique place in that moderation is notoriously lax. Anywhere else and they'd be banned in minutes for trying to pull some of the shit they can easily get away with here.

>>1970981
Oh gotcha, that actually makes a lot of sense, I read that wrong,

>>1970966
Daily reminder.

>>1970987
>>1970991

True

>>1970988

No worries m8

>>1970998
ey nigger dont give him a "no worries mate" from me. i posted that, and he should have tons of worries you cunt

>>1970991
Except that I've been here long enough to know that my visits to /ic/ can't go on forever, because the second I showed any semblance of skill would mean 80% of the board hates me.

I'll be checking out other communities to get critique only. Ciao /ic/.

P.S. Now that moot is kill, everyone is free to leave, didn't you get the memo?

>>1971001
>I'll be checking out other communities to get critique only. Ciao /ic/.
Just don't go to DA. There are few places worse than here, but by gods that is one of them.

>>1971001
dont flounce out like youre some fucking big shot too good for the rest of us

>>1970999
SEE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DONT HAVE WORRIES

>>1971001
>moot is kill, everyone is free to leave

Moot has been absorbed into the collective, he is now all of us and none of us. We have not said goodbye, instead we have welcomed him. You shall keep returning here and remain forevermore.

>>1971006
>shall
>forevermore

underaged autist pls go

>>1970966
I second this OP, this last week the place really went to shit.

>>1971001
If you can't handle the pressure of envious anons and rather want to surround yourself with a hugbox you are free to leave anytime.

>>1970966
>Boo hoo, people are talking about things I don't want them to talk about!
Why don't you just get off the internet altogether, or head over to DA for your circle-jerking feel good hugbox.

>>1971015
>>1971015
Agreed. I've spent way to much time contributing towards making this board a great anonymous art community. This past week in particular is the turning point. I'm leaving /ic/ for good. I don't advise anyone to do anything, because I just don't care.

I cannot stress how much of an utter waste of time it is to post here. This goes especially for the people who argue about petty bullshit on /ic/. Jesus fuck. The things people say here are outstandingly retarded.

This shit hole of an 'art community' can continue sinking. The world will gladly move on without you.

>>1971073
Only too glad to see you go.

>>1971073
on the other hand.. /i/ is great.

>>1970966
Link to the set of references?

>>1971004
The worst part about DA is the people that bitch when you critique something, even if the artist asked for it when that piece was posted. Critique anything and you get labeled a hater by furfags.

>>1971177
>Critique anything and you get labeled a hater by furfags.
Don't blame the furfags for DAs behavior. Most of them hang out on FA or inkbunny.

>>1971128

>>1971187
>>1971128
At least /i/ draws..

Every single week we get them, somebody that gets upset that /ic/ isn't like a Facebook group or some other hugbox and wants to change it to suit themselves so they can gossip freely without having their feelings hurt only to make some sort of self important post at the end of their two weeks-one month about how we should feel bad that we're not him and how we should feel terrible how we drove him away.

The people that complain and are vocal about how /ic/ is a bad community are usually wrapped up in e-celeb drama and have extremely fragile egos as they'd let what anonymous users over the Internet dictate how they feel, as to why they have an incessant need to stay here if it is as bad as they say it is is honestly beyond me.

In that respect, please leave. And when you do settle in to where ever you do wind up please tell them that /ic/ is a terrible place because I can't stand the thought of more sensitive and self important kids coming here and waving their dick around.

>>1971256
I know, right? Apparently, it's INCREDIBLY hard to hit that little button that hides a thread. Just damn near impossible. So instead they throw their little hissy fits, and make a big show about how they're gonna leave for greener pastures.

But we all know you're as addicted as the rest of us. The whole reason you shitheads whine is because you're too attached to this community to leave and stay gone. So go ahead and take off for your greener pastures until your need your fix. And /ic/ will still be what it is, not the imaginary thing you want it to be.

Permanoobz. Looking at those sketchbooks (with studies and references OMGHOWDARETHEY!) actually gets me jealous enough to motivators me to draw, especially when I see their improvement. When /ic/ gives me the spark, it doesn't take long to get extinguished, because someone says something stupid on here.

>>1971219
But /i/ is filled with children, all they draw is porn.

Wetcanvas is pretty good.
I am part of a Facebook group. All made of decent people.

The level of dialogue and creative content here hasn't been so great recently.

>>1971540
They dont say anything of value either. Like whats the point of even posting there? You get much more exposure from da and tumblr.

>>1971556
Communicating with good artists. Networking. Participating in weekly challenges etc.

>>1971540

Permanoobz fails because of Algen's retarded 'no thread ratings' thing. You have to sift through too much crap to find anything worth looking at.

So dumb. I remember my sketchbook thread on CA years ago wavering between 4 and 5 stars, and how motivated it made me to push my work to the next level so I could get that star, because the 5 star threads got all the attention and the 4 star ones were all crap. Like it or not, no one wants to look through 200 noob sketch threads - they want to see good work that they can learn from and get inspired by.

Algen's forum is like one of those weak-ass modern elementary schools were every kid gets told he's special and gets a participation trophy.

Go to polycount.

Actual professionals still hang around there. But if y'all are top cockbags and aren't humble, they'll get sick of you and leave that community too. So don't do that.

It is mostly a 3D board but it does have 2D sections, so there's nowhere to go there but up.

drawcrowd is good

>>1971610
Are there still any pros posting on permanoobs other than Algen? I remember back when it started, everyone and their mother made a sketchbook, but hardly anyone of the more well known artists kept updating it for more than the first month.

Another problem with this shit hole is that it is filled with people who don't realize that there are other avenues of illustration other than concept art. People here think that you can only make a living making either concept art or porn. You can't argue with this - just look at this board.

How narrow minded can you people be? This place has become no better than that Facebook group 'Level Up', and that's really saying something.

Once you pass a fairly low barrier of skill and maturity, it's time to leave /ic/ behind. Amazingly enough, there are people actually proud of what this board has become, like >>1971256 . That's amazing - it really is. People actually defend this place. Wow. I can't even begin to wrap my head around how that make sense in your head.

>>1971653
>what this board has become,
What it always was. Newfags gonna new, but if you don't like it, you can leave anytime.

>>1971653
Could you name the other avenues? Pls, noobfag here

>>1971663
Said the newfag. When the good artists stopped posting work and critique this place died.

The janitor thought a softer, more anime kiddie crowd world boost revenue for the Jew. Instead it killed /ic/. The jew's gone now.

Enjoy your shithole.

>>1971700
I've been here for over 8 years.

Please, do go. 4chan will never magically change into what you want it to be.

>>1971707
Yet you still can't draw for shit.
Kill yourself.

>>1971721
Nice latest HD projector you have there.

>>1971721
Haha, this is the "so much better than /ic/" attitude? Yeah right. You guys don't hate /ic/ - you hate yourselves because you know you're as bad as the dregs here. You whinge about it, but you'll never leave, and you hate that you can't quit this place, and even with the tools available, you can't bring yourself to just ignore the shit and hit the hide button. You want /ic/ to change because you don't have the self control to change yourself.

If you were going to leave you'd have done it already.

>>1971653
>Once you pass a fairly low barrier of skill and maturity, it's time to leave /ic/ behind.

And you are still here because...?

>>1971700
What is it with you /pol/ faggots and constantly blaming some imaginary boogeyman for everything?

>>1971730
they unlocked the secret power of autism.

>>1971700
>muh Jews
>muh evil janitors

You fucking reek of new. You probably haven't even been around long enough to remember the ginger guy and his Asian wife.

>>1971730
They have an idea of what's going on and know more than what you can comprehend.

>defending what this place has become
>so much delicious mad
Why would anyone recommend the far far better places to truly learn and pull so much ignorant cancer?

>>1971730
see
>>1971725
The worst part is, these faggots aren't trying to make /ic/ better despite all their bitching. To improve a community you start with yourself, by being a better poster, but all these faggots care about is /ic/ being what they want it to be. No community will be what they want it to be, because a community is a collective of individuals and not a fictitious fairy land where all your dreams come true and every fits the stereotypes you want them to and behaves according to your whims.

TL;DR, if you want /ic/ to be better, start by being a better poster. You cunts.

for pixel art:
pixeljoint
pixelation (wayofthepixel)

pixelation also has a board for low spec/low poly stuff.

Nothing beats an irl community of artists though, seek that first.

>>1970966
You must be new here because the community has always been angry.
The reason for their anger though, stems from their artistic talent.
Drawing is hard, and it takes a long time to git gud, so some of them are unsatisfied with their progress and take it out on other posters.
I on the other hand can accept I'm shit, and will be shit for quite some time, but I'm going to keep practicing to git gud.

>>1971750
>by being a better poster
this. this is the true issue at hand.

i've been here for a while now, and this is the main problem of the posters on this board:
because they often see shitty art on this board, every decent to mediocre faggot will let this get to their heads and start talking shit because they THINK they are better than whoever they are arguing with.
fact of the matter is, we all have seen good art posted on this board. not to mention, there are many lurkers. you just don't know who you are talking to. so stop looking down on random anonymous posters, that just get's everyone riled up.
you can also see many people itt acting like this.
>everyone on /ic/ is shit ...but I am excluded from that list!
it's like elitism TOWARDS /ic/. fucking hilarious.

the other problem is noobs arguing strongly about things they don't understand.

>>1971750
>>1971812
>if you want /ic/ to be better, start by being a better poster.
Just because I'll become a better poster doesn't mean that others will become better posters as well.
As for "noobs arguing strongly about things they don't understand" - they're usually not noobs but bored trolls. There's nothing we can do about it.

Stupid question, but does someone have another link for the sticky? Link is dead, would be happy to read it.

>>1971173
this, pls we need a link... for science

I wouldn't mind all the shitposting if actual advice wasn't so far inbetween. At least you learn how to filter helpful stuff from the rageposts quickly. There's usually three kinds of reactions to submissions.

-Rageposts, which either means that you are really, really shit, or that you are good enough to make people with less skill angry.
-'Advice' that boils down to 'draw more like my favourite artist'
-actual advice that points out your flaws, which may or may not happen at all

>>1971863
>>1971173

mjranum-stock.deviantart.com

You're welcome.

>>1971848
>I don't know how to search for "question thread" in catalog

>>1971838
You ignore trolls. Seriously, that's like Interwebs 101. Report and hide.

Your defeatist attitude is a bigger problem than the trolls. Everyone takes that approach and no one bothers with being a good poster.

>>1971872

It's a bit more complicated than that.

I'd say that 95% of users here can detect obvious bait and ignore that, which isn't the problem here as obvious bait are few, far between, and honestly doesn't do much for eliciting butthurt. The problem is that most replies, critique, etc, are fucking terrible but are not obvious enough to anyone without sufficient experience (and by experience I mean "has taken an art class that wasn't a required high school class). Most beginners don't have enough experience to tell the good advice from the bad advice and that perpetuates the godawfulness of critique and general advice here.

Plus you get a lot of /r9k/ types who just aren't happy in general and won't be until they get a fucking intervention, and that's just a drag to sit through.

>>1971867
not the quoted, thanks.

Any place that's not anonymous lol. People can say whatever they want here because there's no consequence.

>>1971876

Not to mention that people undermine credible resourcess when they try to be hip and using them as buzzwords because they want to be part of the cool kids club without actually understanding what the hell they are talking about.(LOOMISLOOMISLOOMIS)

>>1971885

The "Loomis is a meme" business is interesting imo. Like I'll unironically recommend his books to everyone but you get idiots who thinks saying "needs more loomis" is valid critique, idiots who think his books are holy doctrine that can't be deviated from, and people who think because it's popular it must be shit.

Basically people who take honest to goodness help and twist it either to troll people or because they're comically missing the point.

>>1971653
> This place has become no better than that Facebook group 'Level Up', and that's really saying something.

So that LevelUp group is a shithole too? In what ways? Serious question, not trolling, I just dont know all these new communities too well.

>>1971901
edit. I mean other than the innate shitness from apparently being run by Zabrecki and Wojtek.

>>1971895
> but you get idiots who thinks saying "needs more loomis" is valid critique
it's supposed to be a joke. i don't completely agree with the other guy but you're the kind of person he's talking about. the kind that can't tell apart jokes/trolling and real feedback.

>>1971904

Maybe several years ago it can be passed off as a joke but now it's reached Poe's Law level "are they being serious or is this a joke?" which is never good for a community.

It's better is people leave /ic/
/ic/ is a terrible platform to share art and give critique because there's always some faggot trying to give "good" advice.
The thing is, most critique here is either insipid, trite shit or given by someone that has zero experience OR in the worst case scenario, someone posing as a pro.

What's worst is that some people get offended when you ask them to post their work to prove their credibility.

Being anonymous really doesn't work for this kind of stuff.

>>1971921
>Being anonymous really doesn't work for this kind of stuff.

This so much.

>>1971921
>What's worst is that some people get offended when you ask them to post their work to prove their credibility.
Post your art.

Two words.


eight

chin

>>1971941
I am offended.

>>1971921
>tell my wife im an orangutan

>>1971946
two words

shit

>>1971941

BAZINGA

>>1971921
>>1971921
>>1971921
>>1971921
>>1971921

>Being anonymous really doesn't work for this kind of stuff.
>Being anonymous really doesn't work for this kind of stuff.
>Being anonymous really doesn't work for this kind of stuff.
>Being anonymous really doesn't work for this kind of stuff.

I wish I had realized this years ago. This is probably the biggest reason that /ic/ is a waste of time. The people who think that anonymous feedback is worthwhile are tje people who are naive enough to think that it's the only way to get 'honest' critique.

>>1971921
But why do people get defensive when asked to post their work? I've always posted my work when asked to even during an argument or when I am giving out advice. Are people really that insecure?

> I'm so upset I HAVE to tell you that I'm now leaving! NOW!

>>1971653
fucking this.

This bothers the shit out of me. It's such a neckbeard mindset here. Illustration has existed for the entire modern era and painting and other art has existed for tens of thousands of years from what we know, yet /ic/ thinks art careers began with video games and animu porn.

I know the mindset is that these are "comfortable paycheck 9-5 art jobs," but really, they're not. Even that world is going freelance. You work from project to project for the most part. So you finish one game and now you're unemployed - if you're good, that leads to employment on another game probably with the same people from that crew that want to use you again. Sometimes not. And what really sucks is if you signed a strict work-for-hire agreement, like Disney does, you can work for a company for 15 years and everything you did in that 15 years, even if it was personal work, cannot be shown in your portfolio to gain access to a new job.

If you're into art because you want a steady career, you're in the wrong business. I do freelance illustration, everything from editorial, to advertisement, surface design, graphic design/typography and gallery stuff. Rare projects like murals and stuff too. Some weeks I may bring in thousands of dollars and the next 2 weeks I literally make $0. It's never steady.

As for communities, I find the more traditional illustration forums to suit me- drawger for example though drawger isn't open to everyone to prevent it /ic/ standards.

>>1971848
>drawcrowd
its the first thread in the catalog
the one with the blu pin in the pic

>>1971921
I come here for references and leavev, and sometimes hold conversations like this.

But then again, there is Tumblr and Pintrest.
Pintrest is really good for tutorials and new styles to try out

>>1971958
>If you're into art because you want a steady career, you're in the wrong business. I do freelance illustration, everything from editorial, to advertisement, surface design, graphic design/typography and gallery stuff. Rare projects like murals and stuff too. Some weeks I may bring in thousands of dollars and the next 2 weeks I literally make $0. It's never steady.

Im using art for side money, and being an IT/ web designer for main money.

>>1971954
>But why do people get defensive when asked to post their work?

They backpeddle out of existence

>>1970966
>That OP image

One of the rare instances where a nude model makes me want to fap more than draw. Why is she such a qt 3.14?

>>1971954

Reminding people who shit on others because of feelings of inadequacy of their inadequacy does that :^)

>>1972004
After you use her as a reference you get sick and tired of looking at her.

>>1971921
>lel nobody knows shit XD, but i know what's good!
you're an idiot. the type of moron that makes this place hell.

see >>1971939
there is a reason why almost nobody does it, and you're the perfect example.
it's because people like to talk big, but then realize that nobody will take them serious unless they have something to show for it.
the solution is to not act like an elitist fuckwad in the first place.

>b-but then how can i pretend that i stand above the rest of /ic/?
yes, this is truly the cycle of hell.

>>1971073
lol you can't just up and leave, you'll be back. They always come back.

>>1971958

A-fuckin'-men.

People here need to get out of the 'concept art or die' mentality. I'm so, so, so glad that I don't suffer from this, and am enjoying a healthy career of being a hybrid illustrator/designer. I'm glad to see that you (and a few others ITT) understand this - that I'm not going fucking crazy. I hope you leave /ic/ and enjoy a fruitful and growing illustration business. Outside of this thread, this is the last I will post on /ic/. I've been here since 2009. This place has gotten worse over the years, which is sad because I really think the board had some value. This past month is just the tipping point for me. This delusional community is just too out of touch with things.

My advice to people who want to become better freelancers - don't join illustration communities. Join freelancing forums. In a way, all freelance work is the same, and going to a place where people discuss their experiences, successes and failures will give you a better perspective into what you need to do to succeed as an illustrator. Get your art critique from a circle of trusted art-friends online. Feedback from a person you know and respect is infinitely more valuable than that of anonymous shit posters.

There are many people here who I think have what it takes to be working, well paid freelance illustrators if they would only stop focusing so much on fantasy and concept art illustration.

>>1971610
can you link your sketchbook? I'd like to see it :)

>>1972073
Welcome back Anon, it's been a while did you make it big the industry yet?

>>1972026
What.
Did you quote the wrong person?
I never said I knew better than anyone, I merely pointed out the flaws of this platform.
The other person you quotes was agreeing with me.

>>1971901
Bump.

>1972073
>don't join illustration communities. Join freelancing forums

What forums do you recommend?
When someone says "freelance forum" I instantly think of the shithole like freelancer.com or elance thats filled with indians and kazakhs working for 3 usd/day and hirers offering that level of pay and quality.

>>1972109
Same narrow minded mentality that concept art and fantasy illustration are the only ways you can make a living. Same delusional idolization of famous concept artists. Same general level of immaturity and understanding of what it means to be an illustrator.

Just spend some time there. If you don't see what I'm talking about as being blatantly obvious, then you belong on a place like /ic/ and Level Up

>>1972124
The worst part is that they literally mirror the thoughts of the industry. Some of their truths are sad, but they are truths.

If you want to be a porn artist, that's your own thing.

>>1971921
>What's worst is that some people get offended when you ask them to post their work to prove their credibility.
you are so fucking new. here is a typical scenario in this place:
>you post work
"it's shit" says another anon.
"post your work!" you say.
>another anon posts his work (let's assume he really made it)
"it's shit!" you say.
>in your mind, you got even

but it never actually happened, because no one is that stupid or gullible and can see from a mile away that you just want to get even at the guy who offended you, which is the ulterior motive behind your "to show credibility".

>>1972148
>you are so fucking new.

sekkrit club xD

>>1972148
You just mentioned another flaw of being anonymous.
You're little shitfling is based on the assumption that I am asking to see their art with the intention of insulting them.

See conceptart or any art community, if someone posts critique, you can quickly check their sketchbook or whatever and see if the advice is legit or just someone trying to pose, here you can't do that, if you're new you just have to hope that person knows what they're talking about. Again, because there's dumb niggers like you that get offended at the idea of someone asking you to post your own work, GEE god forbid your feelings get hurt here.

But hey, asking people to validate their advice instead of eating up their shit is being gullible, right?

Eat shit, faggot.

>>1972124
>Same narrow minded mentality that concept art and fantasy illustration are the only ways you can make a living.

Well, what exactly is there apart from that? S-f illustration I guess, and some people make a living drawing animu shit/porn.

>>1972163
>See conceptart or any art community, if someone posts critique, you can quickly check their sketchbook or whatever and see if the advice is legit or just someone trying to pose
that's the thing, everyone is holding back on critique in fear of sounding mean and then to be ostracized for it from the community of artists. in addition, everyone views your art in a negative light, because presentation is everything and there are people on this planet who will not like the art if they don't like the artist.
you need to be honest with yourself and admit that your feelings being hurt is the only reason you would want to see their work so you have something to retaliate.

>>1972172
Research it and discover the answers for yourself.

>>1972173
>everyone is holding back on critique in fear of sounding mean and then to be ostracized for it from the community of artists

Patently false. Believe it or not you actually can hand out critique without trying to assblast them out of orbit. And those communities rarely get your /r9k/ types who hate anyone who is better than them, so you actually get people who are happy for you when you start making massive improvements. I mean yeah there are flaws but don't act like there aren't any flaws here either.

>>1971653
nice gsp

>>1972148
>wanting to get even with an anon calling your work shit
Why would you post your shit here if you don't want it to be called shit? I thought that was the whole point.
You post a thing, and then like three anons call it shit, and a fourth anon calls it shit and explains exactly how it is shit. You consider what anon #4 said, and if it seems like it makes sense, you try to follow his advice.
If you don't already think that your shit is shit, you should be trying to sell it, not asking for critique.

>>1972173
You're arguing that this shithole is good for critique because it doesn't matter if your feelings are hurt ,YET you claim that posting your own art to validate your critique is just an excuse to insult someone else.
Then why the fuck does it matter if you post your own art ,you shit for brains?
Are you retarded?
Like, are you genuinely, clinically retarded?

You have to be a fucking teenager to call someone else's work shit just to get "even".
You wouldn't even have to get even if people were respectful to begin with. You don't need to say nigger, shit, etc.. to give good critique.

Precisely why anonymous is a flawed system, you never know who's giving you critique.

>>1972187
>Precisely why anonymous is a flawed system, you never know who's giving you critique.
Does it matter who's giving you critique? If you can't see what's wrong with your work, even after someone has pointed it out to you, you wouldn't really be able to use the critique even if you knew, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the critic is reliable and knows what he's talking about.

>>1971974

Link is dead, hence why I asked, but someone gimme the link in the question topic, thanx anyway!

>>1972148
>here's a typical scenario
1. Stop implying that everyone here want to insult you. Are you seriously this retarded?
Stop making up excuses and post your art.
2. It already happened (posting art after being asked to do this), you moron. Except it looked like this:
I'm an art teacher, ask me anything
>post your art
Sure, no prob, pic related.
>nice

You can find this thread in the archive if you don't believe me.
If you're scared so much of losing your credibility, then maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't pretend that you know shit, when you don't.

>>1972197
You're basically saying critique is pointless. One of the reasons people need critique is because they get tunnel-visioned.
Yes, it matters who's giving you critique. You can pick up nasty habits just from receiving some wrong information.
A layman/someone with less knowledge trying to give critique will occasionally point out what looks wrong in your drawing but that person won't be able to elaborate on why. What's dangerous about this is that not being able to elaborate is terribly misleading.

>If you can't see what's wrong with your work, even after someone has pointed it out to you, you wouldn't really be able to use the critique even if you knew, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the critic is reliable and knows what he's talking about.
This entire part is just an assumption. And sometimes people know something is wrong, but they don't know because their knowledge is limited.

>>1972206
you're missing the other half of the argument.
if you need to know how good an artist is to judge how good his critique is, then the content of critique is meaningless. if it's based solely on who's saying it, then it doesn't matter what they're saying.
if craig mullins were to say to you "i think it's utter crap, i think anime is garbage, and you're a shit artist" then you would accept it as a valid critique, just because you have respect for the guy. if jaime jones said to one of your concept art wertern-stereotype heavily-referenced devoid-of-any-style pro-loomis artwork "it's shit, give up on art", then would you really give up on art and kill yourself? and then you have sonic da-tier artist writing you a paragraph of what is wrong with your art and how you should improve it, you would throw it out the window in favor "it's shit"? because from your argument, it sure seems like you'd totally do that if you knew who gave you the critique, since it's SO important.

>>1972004
Her wide hips, her supple breasts, the very faint visage of natural bush down below, her perfectly lengthed hair, her non-expressive attitude expressing a calm, relaxed demeanor.

>>1972228
Not him but you can't judge how a good a critique is by seeing if the critique is accurate or not because the point of the critique is to show the artist something that he can't see himself in the first place. No, I wouldn't take advice from a sonic-tier DA artist and I would take advice from Jaime Jones even if I couldn't tell if what he was saying was true or not. Once I've absorbed the critique into the way I draw then I can see for myself how accurate it is. If you don't draw then lay off the critique.

>>1972228
Another assumption.
Why would professionals and veterans of the industry say retarded shit like that?
Why would ANYONE say that outside of an anonymous environment?
People with experience don't say stupid shit like that because that would destroy their careers, hence why critique from a professionals or at least someone experienced is more valuable than the critique the average layman can give and because of the reasons I've stated previously.

You other half of the argument relies on hyperbole and on assuming the worst from people that have a reputation to maintain

I'll reiterate, yes it matters who gives you the critique, it doesn't have to be a legendary figure, just someone that has more experience and has evidence of said experience.


Like >>1972177
Said, it's possible to give good critique without using stupid language like in your example.
More often than not, non-anonymous communities give good critique, because beginners know better than to give bad advice and they can get called out on it easily.
Here, that's not the case.

>>1972228
>sonic da-tier artist writing you a paragraph of what is wrong with your art and how you should improve it, you would throw it out the window in favor "it's shit"?
Yes I would, misleading advices can be much more harmful than figuring things on my own.

>>1972244
>and I would take advice from Jaime Jones
you're a retard, then. enjoy your shit critique.

i swear, when i get good, i'll be giving shit advice and you kids will eat it up like a delicious meal made of poop and not even realize it.

>>1972228
Yeah I agree with this. I don't really think the anonymity is bad for this because when given criticism, no matter who its from, you still have to judge it yourself and decide if its useful.
Your examples are a little extreme, but it is likely that a good artist could give bad advice; perhaps they have trouble articulating whats wrong or may give vague advice because the way they learned was a lot different from "normal" methods. At the same time, an artist who isn't very good may give good critique because he is very critical himself for the sake of his own art, and has noticed his own mistakes and very directly improved them, even if slightly. The thing about anonymity isn't that there's a lack of credibility, it's that everything is equally credible and therefore we can judge solely their ideas without any distractions of identity.
Basically, problems can be avoided by just being open minded and allowing yourself to freely experiment with anything that comes your way and being very critical of your own work. Then it's fairly easy to tell the bad stuff from good stuff. Like >>1972244 me just said, the point of critique is to show the artist something that he can't see himself, but contrarily I think that's why any person can potentially give good or bad critique, as knowledge and wisdom aren't a straight line, it's a nebula and any bit of information may get one to see how to improve.

>>1972251
>People with experience don't say stupid good like that
"another assumption"

>>1972228
>and then you have sonic da-tier artist writing you a paragraph of what is wrong with your art and how you should improve it, you would throw it out the window in favor "it's shit"?

You're literally killing your own argument, smartass.

Yes I fucking would because that advice is most likely shit and will only harm me in the long run.
I'd rather take advice and critique from someone that displays their artwork publicly than some anonymous shitfuck.

>>1972261
A correct one at that.
The people mentioned in the hyperbolic tirade I replied to have never said anything stupid like that and they're all accomplished professionals.

Do give me an example of a veteran or professional acting like a complete faggot and tell me they're the rule and not the exception.

>>1972263
>>1972252
ok, smarty-pants, let's go through this scenario:
>you post artwork
"it's utter shit" says anon
"post your work" you say
>anon posts work, revealing that he's jaime jones
"oh yaa, my work really is shit, thanks for pointing it out. many thanks!"
>another anon chimes in:
"i could've told you THE SAME THING and explain WHY" he said
"nope, i don't want to hear it from you" you say

if you don't see how ridiculous this is, you are quite literally retarded.

>>1972270
Not the anon you've been talking to, but I don't even think YOU really support your own argument anymore. Quell that rage and think about it for more than 5 minutes.

>>1972270
Why would Jaime Jones do that?
Why would any professional do that?
Just shit the fuck up, really.

>>1972254
>implying you'll ever get good

>>1972258
Then again, you could just circumvent the pain of sifting trough shit in an anonymous imageboard and go to another forum.
You mentality can still be applied to other forums, the difference being that those other communities don't have as much vitriol, trolls, etc... as this shithole.

>>1972270
The point is that Jaime Jones wouldn't give shit advice and like "it's utter shit" and an anon who doesn't know how to draw wouldn't be capable of giving useful advice.

Here's thee comments from Sijun mullins about crits. I personally don't agree with them. But it's interesting to hear his words.

My best critic is Dad. He looks out from behind his paper and says, "The arm looks busted." His secret is he never tells me how to fix it(he knows he doesn't know).

Cos, no I don't mind a bit if you or anyone else tells me what they don't like. The customer is always right, and the customer is defined as a group of people that does not include me. I like crits from everyone from really advanced artists all the way to my Dad, who knows nothing about art and hates everything I do His crits are so honest and direct, and he leaves it to me to figure out how to fix things. The worst is an art director who kinda knows what is going on (a little knowledge is a fatal thing) and makes really bad directives about how to fix things. i prefer "the arm looks funny."

It has been an old debate about artists at various “levels” and whether it is bad form for a “lesser” artist to critique a “better” artist. Aside from the difficulty of really quantifying how “good” an artist is, consider the idea that even if you are a highly skilled artist, your audience is very wide, and if you are a commercial artist, you had better pay attention to how your work strikes people. My Dad is my best critic, he is honest and harsh and knows nothing at all about art.

>>1972270
Hi, I'm Masahiro Anbe and you're a huge cocksucking faggot.
Here's my work, proving I am indeed Masahiro Anbe.
However, I would never act like this in any situation because that would destroy my career and I don't even speak English.

>>1972283
Another set. Notice most if not all these are from the perspective of his father. I take back disagree, I could go back and forth with the dude.

>
My best critic has always been my Dad. He is not an artist, does not even like art that much. He grunts and says, “leg looks broken” and ambles off. If something in my sketches looks wrong, it is. When I am much better at this, the truth of the drawing will be there for everyone to see, and the percentage of reactions like my Dad’s will fall. With this image, some really liked the pose and anatomy and commented on it.

>
I don't think I will be doing anymore paint overs. A lot of people don't like it. Not sure why, I always appreciated it when someone painted over one of mine.

As far as critiques, informed or otherwise, I like all kinds. That is one reason why I like Sijun. As I have said before, my dad ,who has not one art bone, gives the best critique. He just looks quickly and says "it looks wierd" and off he goes.

Sometimes the best crit from an art director is "it needs to be better" If a half assed opinion is offered as to what to do about it, you are then obliged to follow it, so you have a new boil to be lanced along with the original. If the illustrator is hired for an expertise, then let the expertise solve the problem.

From the trenches- a "french alteration" is one where the AD says make it a leeetle longer/bluer/lighter. You say OK, do nothing and re-submit the work. The AD then says ah, perfect! What a genius I am!

>>1972283
>His secret is he never tells me how to fix it(he knows he doesn't know).

That's the key here. The advice that his dad gives is descriptive and not prescriptive. He has another set of eyes that can see obvious things that we might easily overlook. He doesn't know a better way to do it though or more importantly how to go about improving because that's only something an artist that has more experience can know.

>>1972283

That does work but those crits work better for figuring out higher level problems. Shit like "does this image convey the emotion I want it" or "does this composition read well" or even "can this pass off as a proper human and not some crazy freak."WHen youre trying to make finished works that's when those kinds of different takes are vital.

However, /ic/ is a lot more beginner oriented, and that requires a higher level of detail the layman can give. A beginner needs a lot more guidance than someone saying something vague like "arm is busted", simply because the beginner won't know what to take form it.

>>1972274
>Why
because they can.

Here's that concept artist idolization and obsession. This community can literally talk about nothing without bringing up 'famous' concept artists.
.

>>1972292
>However, /ic/ is a lot more beginner oriented, and that requires a higher level of detail the layman can give. A beginner needs a lot more guidance than someone saying something vague like "arm is busted", simply because the beginner won't know what to take form it.

/thread

>>1972298
it's only to make a point. would you be more satisfied if i typed <your-idol> instead?

>>1972206
>You're basically saying critique is pointless.
No. But what I'm trying to say is very close to
>A layman/someone with less knowledge trying to give critique will occasionally point out what looks wrong in your drawing but that person won't be able to elaborate on why.

If someone tells you that something in your picture looks wrong, but doesn't explain why, it doesn't matter who they are. Either you can see what they mean, and figure out how to fix it, or you can't do shit. If the ghost of Rembrandt Van Rijn appeared before you and told you that the face you drew is wrong, there isn't much you can do about it if the face looks just fine to you. You could redraw the face over and over again, in hopes of appeasing the vengeful ghost, but if you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, you're relying entirely on luck.
>"But Rembrandt Van Rijn wouldn't do that! He'd definitely give me useful advice!"
Well, then you know that whenever someone doesn't explain WHY your work is shit, they're always a bad artist, and can be safely ignored. You still don't need to know their name to determine this.

If, on the other hand, someone explains exactly what is wrong with your picture, I don't see how you could possibly be unable to determine whether they're full of shit just from looking at the advice itself.
We could make it a game. Post an image, and an example piece of advice that could be given on it. Don't tell us whether the advice is good or bad. People have to guess which one it is, without knowing if the critic is any good at art.
It should be easy for you to find examples that support your opinion, given that you claim that every single exchange of critique on /ic/ is like this.

>>1972358
To be honest, I lost myself in the shitfest above.
Originally, I was trying to argue that /ic/ is not a good place to receive critique due to the potential dangers a lot of beginners can face.
>However, /ic/ is a lot more beginner oriented, and that requires a higher level of detail the layman can give. A beginner needs a lot more guidance than someone saying something vague like "arm is busted", simply because the beginner won't know what to take form it.
>The worst is an art director who kinda knows what is going on (a little knowledge is a fatal thing) and makes really bad directives about how to fix things. i prefer "the arm looks funny."

I guess these two points summarize well what I was trying to convey, which is why I dislike the idea of anonymity when criticizing.
The thing is, in most communities, critique is public and can be seen by all, this thread for example (except we're anonymous).
So even if bad advice is given, others can intervene and give their own opinion/critique and the person being critique can observe the discussion, the difference being that here you don't have a way to "measure" the subjective validity of a critique's opinion, since we're all anonymous, whereas in a forum with names you can profile someone criticizing you.

>>1972376
>the person being critique
criticized*
anyway you know what I mean

>>1972358
>>1972358
It's not that beginners can't see that a picture looks wrong because they don't know why. EVEN IF they get told why they still won't be able to see what they're doing wrong. For example beginners are notoriously bad at spotting perspective mistakes. Even if they're told that a certain object isn't scaling correctly they'll fix it and then keep making the same mistake over and over because they can't see what wrong themselves. A common mistake in figure drawing is that a figure takes up the whole page but is too far away from the camera. This isn't something that can be explained to a beginner because they'll look confused and go "What camera? How is the figure far from it?" A good critique wouldn't be to tell them to fix certain lines of the figure but would be to tell them to start drawing in continuous lines instead of breaking them up and to draw each line in one go instead roughing it out as well as putting a boundary around all of your compositions in the future. At first glance it seems completely unrelated to perspective until they slowly come to realize that every figure is a certain distance from the camera. That would be a good critique that's not immediately obvious and can only be taught by someone who has experience drawing.

Really the best place is IRL groups. Bring your laptop to an artclub. You'll get more honest critique now that they're face to face, and most professional or savvies never touch 4chan, or even artbistro and the like.

>>1972762
>Really the best place is IRL groups. Bring your laptop to an artclub. You'll get more honest critique now that they're face to face


>mfw when
Closest thing to an artclub around me is the local university with art department thats run by old people that have no idea what digital art is, and at best I'd be a weird curiosity there, "that strange guy who paints with a computer".

>>1972762
>>1973113
>laptop

absolute disgusting

>>1973113
>"that strange guy who paints with a computer".

'and then he said "it's kind of like real painting" ahahahaha'

>>1970966
Just take a figure drawing course. You'll learn more and there's less stupidity in general.

>>1971551
And now they are bringing it to /ic/.

I think this was the point where I realized all hope was lost for /ic/

Or maybe it was when people started making "porn generals" and turning this into /i/ 2.0

>>1971653
>>1971958
/ic/ is literally the only board where I've ever seen people ask how to make money or straight up ask for money. If they asked the same stupid questions on /biz/ or any other site, they would get laughed out the door immediately.

>>1973236
i think there are just too many subgroups with different interests on this board now.
their interests and opinions crash, leading to a generally hostile enviroment where nobody wants to post art and nobody wants to associate themselves with ic as a community.

i really think that /ic/ should become a place with lot's of general threads, like /vg/.

think about it, people do post art in the few "generals" we have right now (beginner, sketchbook, animu, drawthread etc). but outside of that it's nothing but shitposting and chaos.

art & critique generals. that would allow for small communities to grow independently from each other.

>>1973276
The problem is then you get hugbox threads with people who only know how to draw one thing (or don't know how to draw at all) patting each other on the back, just like DeviantART. It was better when people just made their own individual threads and waited for help. Splitting into generals only makes the problem worse and encourages the subgroup/hivemind segregation. /vg/ was created partially because /v/ became nothing but generals after a while, the same thing that's killing /co/ and now /ic/.

>>1973276
I don't mind things like the Draw Thread or Stylized Art General, but "porn general" is where I draw the line. It's such an obvious cop out for people who got laughed out of every other thread because nobody wants to see it and they kept forcing it anyway. What's next, Furry General? Come on.

>>1973316
i get what you're saying, but vg looks pretty healthy to me.
if we can't stay together, maybe it is better to segregate into a few generals.

anyway, i'm just throwing ideas out.
but i agree, personal art/feedback threads are the way to go, but when was the last time you saw one? heck, i don't even remember the last time i THOUGHT about making one. it's because the community is just to toxic and the egos are too bloated.

>>1973316
before it was one big Loomis general and wxactly how you say, all they know how to draw was Loomis and ostracized anything that wasn't Loomis. it was MORE homogeneous without generals.
and who's to say that you can't visit other generals to try your hand at other stuff?
also, are you implying that encouragement and positive environment is bad? nigga, i bet you were one of the artists who cried when i went toxic on you.

>>1973347
Here is your reply

merc wip destroyed /ic/

>>1970966
consider that /ic/ only value it's the sticky and the guy who post a fucking ton of pdf books. fuck i love that fella.

>>1970981
Other sites worth going to will have enforced rules that penalize giant shit babies that lurk places like /ic/.

And thus, there is no harm in listing them.

>>1973525
it wasn't that funny to begin with
funny how the average /ic/tard claims to have superior tastes when they laugh at unfunny reddit-tier mayonnaise like this

>>1972026
Anon was simply laying out the current situation on /ic/. Why are you trying start shit?

>>1972283
I like this, very pragmatic.

>>1974368
No, im serrious.
The fact that it became a 'meme' destroyed /ic/.
Sure it was shit before, but that was the poision

I've personally been to DeviantArt, Pixiv, iScribble and the infinite and non stop amount of platforms and forums for art and I've never gotten as much criticism from them as I have from /ic/.

And that's good, I want to get better at drawing, not stay on the same level forever.
>>1973335
>/vg/ looks healty for me
actually go into almost any non-nonactive thread and attempt to say that again, the shitposting, meme spewing and tripfag circlejerking is beyond awful.

>>1974368
It was funny 'cause it made people mad, that's it really. Just for reaction baiting now, it was only actually funny for a brief moment after it's original context.

>>1970966
I came back to ic this week after a year of being gone.

Glad to see others realize this place has turned to shit. What happened here???

>>1975382
Was it better back then? I thought it was all just loomis spam.

>>1975390

Loomis was less of a meme in the past, but other than that it didn't change much.

>>1975393
>less of a meme
boy, are you new. it was spammed left and right. we had a loomis fag who just wouldn't shut up thinking he was funny. it's a lot better now that he (or she) left.

>>1975390
>>1975393
I quite liked /ic/ up till 2013. Got a lot of help and encouragement. The new sticky was a great improvement too. We didn't have mods yet there seemed less trolling around.
Not sure where /ic/ will be going now. We still have helpful posters around... I actually suspect that all the hate threads and trolling are just a few people and we'll get over it.

BLABLABLA

>i quit /ic/

>/ic/ is so terrible

>god this place was so much better

>i left waay back

>only coming back to complain! i swear i left 2 years ago

you are all bunch of fucking hypocrite homo faggots. if you don't want to be here FUCK OFF and don't make stupid threads. don't you realize how dumb you sound? it's like you are ranting about how gays are disgusting and will burn in hell, while having a thick fat cock down your throat. perfect analogy.

hope you all get aids for being such dumb hypocrites.

>>1975390
/ic/ has always been shit

>>1973323
Well the nice thing about it being contained is that you can hide it and move on.

>>1975437
>you are all bunch of fucking hypocrite homo faggots.
>it's like you are ranting about how gays are disgusting and will burn in hell, while having a thick fat cock down your throat.

Based Anon saying telling it like it is

>>1970966
I recently quit al of the shitty cancer so called art communities (dA and other shit) Whatever yu say, /ic/ have some kind of ruthless critic and buch of helpful anons. Self improve, draw, reference and some other topics goes well. Also i dot care about Kr0n, Sakimi etc. threads. To sum up, /ic/ is solid as fuck and have minimal cancer if you ignore few crybabies.

>>1975485
It really does have some great posters, and is a great way to pass the time while still doing something semi-art related if you can avoid the drama threads. It's like there's a thick veil covering the good in this place, so most people don't even see past it, but a few of us know the truth. Including those people who keep saying it sucks and that they're leaving but never really end up leaving.

>>1975485
enjoy having no presence nor any chance at ever making money cause no popularity.

>>1975485

/ic/ is very helpful and offers alot of good critique if you are patient. But you have to put up with the dramaqueens here, trolls, frustrated anons shitting on everyone and the 24/7 artist cocksucking threads. There's diamonds, but you have to wade through alot of shit for them.

>>1975503
>There's diamonds, but you have to wade through alot of shit for them.
That's pretty much anything worthwhile I find.

>>1971952
if only we could really understand the ideas other people try to communicate, we'd probably all be professional artists. But it seems to me that knowledge must first be acquired before it can be understood.

>>1971492
>Apparently, it's INCREDIBLY hard to hit that little button that hides a thread.
That wouldn't be a problem if it was only one or two threads.

After a while this just starts to feel like an excuse

>>1975390
Like there was less trolling, less meme talk, no sexist shit ("x artist only popular cause she a gril!1one!")

There was no "this artist is a faggot cause look how much money they are making drawing anime", it was more "look at this artist making huge money, awesome I hope I get to that level someday"

It was actually the kr0n thread that got linked to me so I had a look around. Just seemed less negative back like maybe a year or 2 ago? (maybe I just didn't see it before but it was still there). But checking out catalog past week threads are FULL of bitching and like tearing each other down with trashtalk?? :/

>>1976871
>less trolling
no
>less meme talk
no
>no sexist shit
maybe less. gamergate shitted everything up for everyone.

>>1970966
I sketched this on my sketchpad and would like advice, but I have no idea how to get it onto the website in an acceptable manner.

>>1975889
but they keep popping up and i cant even find the few threads that are actually drawing related.

>>1976871
Trolling happened just as much, if not more, but it was more creative and interesting.
>tfw Guy is never coming back

>>1972073
>>1971958
>>1971653

If this is the case then why don't you guys ever contribute to the freelance threads that pop up every so often? They do pop up, but the only there are tumbleweeds.

It would be nice to make a thread that focuses on illustration, the various avenues of illustration and what people can do pursue work in those fields.

I've been in /ic/ for a quite some years now and in all that time I have not seen a difference here, at all. People are still bitching about this place being crap, nothing's changed.

If anything, there are more people sharing stuff here, like that art book thread, people offering alternatives to Loomis, and more of an acceptance of popular art styles.

>>1977362
You're either not very observant, or the janitor. This place jumped the shark a long time ago
It's a shame

>>1977539
Whatever helps you fall asleep at night, but if it wasn't for this place I wouldn't have improved as much as I have. That being said I do welcome the threads where people are, actively, looking for ways to make money with their art.

I felt that there was a lack of those threads when I was starting to lurk/post here.