/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

You and me both.

Early comic book artists were educated on the same schools as other illustators from the same tradition as Rockwell, the current house style developed due the limitation and requirments of the medium.

My best advice is to master realism and then do it from imagnation, also study comic book greats like Alex Toth or Joe Kubert.

>>1960628
Being a good comic book artist is probably one of the hardest things you could try to do right now. But it's a good goal. There is a lot that goes into comicbook art, especially if you want a realistic style like the one in the picture you used.

The main thing that people have problems with is anatomy. You will want to pretty much become perfect at human anatomy and using depth/foreshortening. Once you get the hang on that, other stuff will probably be a cakewalk.

There are many different artists in the comic book industry, however. There are the pencilers, the inkers, and the colorists. Which one you want to be will depend on the focus you should have. I am guess a penciler is what you are most interested in, because they are what makes it look "alive" and they are the ones to set the foundation for the rest of the artists.

Step one, draw what it is you want to draw.
Step two, be critical about your flaws
Step three, study what you suck at
Wash rinse and repeat until death.

I could never understand the allure in digital. Mainly the color...Not that I have a problem with color, I don't. But I like it more when it's colored traditionally, like with copics. I hate when I go to my local comic shop, I see all these effects in these american comics, like lens flare and those weird ass filters.

As an aspiring comic artist, I've always wanted /ic/ to have their own "Comic Book Art General" or something like that. Every attempt at one has only lasted at least 2 threads unfortunately. Gonna monitor this thread just in case it starts to pick up speed.

OP, don't worry about "style" right now. Comics has come to a point where house styles, like the one you're posting, isn't really the standard anymore. Its totally possible to be hired by DC or Marvel or anyone with an established character and lore all the while drawing their characters COMPLETELY off model. There's a saying that style is just the errors poking through an artist's work. Though that might not resonate with you, it sounds like solid logic to me. So just keep working on your anatomy and your "style' will come through.

As for inking, just look at your idles. Trace them if you have to. Take in how they do it and translate it to your work.

>>1960875
Like, for example, I've just done some profile studies, now I'm trying to draw some from imagination. My one isn't how I want it to be, would it be OK, to look at the study again, then apply them to my own?

>>1961962
Post the drawing, let us see what you are doing wrong and we will tell you what to study.

>>1961941
inking is very important

>>1963208
I remember these. David Yardin posted them on his blog and said that he redid them. Was it actually someone else's inks?

>>1961941
>As an aspiring comic artist, I've always wanted /ic/ to have their own "Comic Book Art General" or something like that.
Why not combine comics and manga? Could attract more people.

>>1963681
Currently it actually is. But mostly everyone is doing something more manga or anime oriented. And unfortunately, though the medium is the same, the methods are different a lot of times. The "American comic" posters are few and far between, and whats more there's not that many of them to crit a page. You may be posting your work in 2 - 3 threads before someone actually responds with something relevant to your work. Nothing against the anime/alt art threads but I would prefer if there was one specifically for "comics".

>>1963696
>but I would prefer if there was one specifically for "comics".

>>>/co/

>>1963681

Manga fans have different goals. They're more interested in it as a hobby rather than actually working in the industry.

>>1963710

/co/ threads are useless. Anyone interested in actually getting good just comes here to get away from the toonshit.

>>1963715
>Manga fans have different goals. They're more interested in it as a hobby rather than actually working in the industry.
What makes you think that? If you're taljking about working in Japan, sure, no one thinks about that are actually really, really motivated and actually good. But the "manga" school is present everywhere and most artists from the recent generations are mixing manga, comics and other together, and I think there's actually "manga fans" as motivated as "comics fans". A lot of them already succeeded in a way. Guys like LeSean Thomas just to name one. Or Thomas Romain in France.
Nah I think you can't make generalizations here. It only depends on the person, not the "style".

There are a ton of videos on comic book coloring, but does anyone know if there are any that are really beneficial to watch for a practical work flow and technique?

>>1963742
>What makes you think that?

I've had the discussions here a thousand times. It's the same thing over and over, they just want to do their own personal project while scraping by from prints and porn.

>>1965022

Paolo Rivera has a great vid with good blog posts to accompany. He also has an excellent inking demo and accompanying blog posts. In fact, read his blog religiously, he's a modern master.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMoxeQS-7Q

>>1965080
>here

there's your problem.

>>1965082

How is it a problem when the conversation is about /ic/? The whole point is "here."

>>1965109
"here" is not the total voice of those manga fans.

>>1965109
I thought you're pertaining to manga fans everywhere not just here on /ic/, my bad.

>>1963715
>/co/ threads are useless. Anyone interested in actually getting good just comes here to get away from the toonshit.

Nah, /co/ has much better artists than /ic/, who actually know how to draw and not just copy photos in some ugly wannabe realism attempt. If you want to get constructive help with your comic attempts, /co/ is the place to go. If you want a bunch of noobs jell at you thinking they are hot shit, when they can't even turn a figure in perspective, stick with /ic/.

>>1965134

Is that supposed to be the best thing you could find on /co/?

Ahahahaha oh man

>>1965136

Feel free to post a comic page made by an /ic/ poster that is better. Hey, don't run away!

>>1965139

Feel free to post more artists from /co/ who are so amazingly superior to /ic/. Thats the line of your post I'm challenging.

I could cherry pick tehmeh just like you could cherry pick that guy. Go on, more?

>>1965134

I can't even find an art thread on /co/.

>>1965141
>I could cherry pick tehmeh

No you can't because this is about comics you dumbass. In this case you finally can't hide behind your precious Tehmeh or Catbib.

It's /co/: 1, /ic/: 0, until you post a comic page by an /ic/ poster that is actually better. Take your time but I won't hold my breath.

>>1965145
>No you can't because this is about comics you dumbass.

Then you should've labelled them as 'comic' artists instead of saying:

>Nah, /co/ has much better artists than /ic/, who actually know how to draw and not just copy photos in some ugly wannabe realism attempt.

We cool yet?

>>1965147
Well my bad, I was pretty sure the context and topic of this fucking thread would imply that this is about comic book artists, without me having to point it out.

>>1965151

Well there was no need to bag the community of /ic/ like that was there?

>>1963669
>I remember these. David Yardin posted them on his blog and said that he redid them. Was it actually someone else's inks?


old /co/ was complaining about the inker, so i guest yes

>>1965080
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpc-ttVsOXg

i learn a lot with K Michael Russell

so... crap, I couldn´t find the batman thread on /co/ might as well post it here.

this is my first picture of an superhero ever /ic/, after studying a little bit of anatomy.

I need to check if I fucked something up before inking.

what do you guys think?

>>1965251
go ahead and inking

>>1965251
the vastus medialis does not look like a spearpoint.

>>1963710
The "Work on Your Art" threads only "git" so "gud". Its more like all the boys in your 4th grade class all comparing their doodles during recess. That sounds a little harsh but sometimes it can be very very true.

Of course there's a few that are actually quite good and even have comics going of their own and give great feedback, but just like the Anime/Alt art threads they're hardly there. Probably working instead of perusing the internet. A "Comics General" on /ic/ would be great since it would be a more condensed space for the medium. Instead of coming into the Alt art thread, saying you wanna draw Like Mike Mignola, and everyone just skimming past your drawing because you didn't draw Miku or whatever, people could actually hook you up with some similar artists. Maybe some books on macabre storytelling. Etc, etc.

I mean look at this thread. The fact this thread exists shows there's some demand for it. And art tips, when outside the batman threads, generally fall on deaf ears or they get directed to /ic/ anyway.

>>1966705
Good idea. I would totally frequent that thread. But I probably wouldn't fit in with that board, because unlike most people on this board, I don't distinguish between American and Japanese art. Now I'm not too into the new style going on right now with Japanese comics, and have more of a interest in the older comics. Like Yoshihiro Tatsumi's comics, Osamu Tezuka, maybe some of the 80s comics in Japan...

But their styles are similar more to American cartoons, such as Tezuka and Tatsumi. The greatest reason I like Japanese comics isn't the art, but the way the story is told. For example even though Watchmen is considered a classic, I still can't stand out the whole book is basically a grid. Japanese comics tend to be more cinematic in their nature, and don't confine themselves to simple squares and rectangles. Not saying all American comics do, but I do hate it how most American comics have you occasionally reading a panel for like 40+ seconds, way too long for a panel imo. American comics need to work more on moving you with the story, being more dynamic...

>>1972157
>even though Watchmen is considered a classic, I still can't stand out the whole book is basically a grid
>40+ seconds, way too long for a panel

You're the cancer that is ruining comics.

>>1972157
I don't want anyone to misunderstand me. I have no problem with squares and rectangles, but it gets boring after a while. Hell the names I gave you almost always went with squares and rectangles, and rarely went beyond the safe zone, but their cinematic pacing made up for it.

>>1972170
>cinematic pacing

What does this even mean? Movies don't all move at the same pace. Some are very fast, others are very slow. The same applies to comics.

Watchmen is a slow-reading book. The slow pace is encouraged by the wealth of visual detail in the artwork, and the pacing encourages the reader to take extra time to carefully consider what they're reading.

By comparison, The Dark Knight Returns is another book that uses a grid but reads much faster because the panels infer information and ideas, leaving your subconscious to fill in the blanks as you move forward. Miller was heavily influenced by Japanese comics while Watchmen's use of a nine-panel grid and heavy text was a reference to the very weighty Steve Ditko issues of Spider-Man.

>>1972194
I'm sorry my friend, maybe you worded it better. Sure there are exceptions, I never said that all of something was one way or another way. But the ones I read were as you described, heavy reads and not enough panel by panel action. What I don't like about the grid method is that it doesn't allow individual elements in the story to be highlighted. I feel like the whole point of varying your panel sizes is to highlight events in the story. For example, let's say you're drawing a boxing match in the form of a comic. Let's say that in that page, there are panels of the opponent strutting, and then going for a knockout punch. Now if I drew every panel the same size, the punch wouldn't have a greater impact on the reader, or the moments coming before the punch. BUT, let's say that I wanted to make a kind of visual scene in the head where the opponent is kind of strutting before the punch, and that when he goes in for the punch, it kind of zooms in from the perspective of the guy getting punched. In this example, I would draw the strutting panels small. Those panels would highlight more of the speed in the opponents legs. Then when he charges for the punch, the picture itself would be front on but with emphasis on the fist the shape of the panel would be a little bit more rectangular, but not as big. Finally the next panel would be just the fist right next to the guy, again in the perspective of the guy about to be punched. Though the panel would be small vertically, but long horizontally, many parts of the fist would extend beyond the panel and into the gutters, maybe also other panels. The next page would be when I would finally draw the blow, and it would either take up about half the page or the entire page. Through this, it's almost as if the reader felt the punch. He saw the opponents speed, and he even "saw" the punch coming toward him, and the varying sizes of the panels were almost like camera work in a movie. As a result, the heavy blow is accented.

>>1972225
Damn sorry for the wall of text

>>1972225
I'd also like to add that I'd draw those two panels where the punch is coming to the reader right under each other, you know, horizontal panels. so it reads vertically

I'm sorry my friend, maybe you worded it better. Sure there are exceptions, I never said that all of something was one way or another way. But the ones I read were as you described, heavy reads and not enough panel by panel action. What I don't like about the grid method is that it doesn't allow individual elements in the story to be highlighted. I feel like the whole point of varying your panel sizes is to highlight events in the story.

For example, let's say you're drawing a boxing match in the form of a comic. Let's say that in that page, there are panels of the opponent strutting, and then going for a knockout punch. Now if I drew every panel the same size, the punch wouldn't have a greater impact on the reader, or the moments coming before the punch. BUT, let's say that I wanted to make a kind of visual scene in the head where the opponent is kind of strutting before the punch, and that when he goes in for the punch, it kind of zooms in from the perspective of the guy getting punched.

In this example, I would draw the strutting panels small. Those panels would highlight more of the speed in the opponents legs. Then when he charges for the punch, the picture itself would be front on but with emphasis on the fist the shape of the panel would be a little bit more rectangular, but not as big. Finally the next panel would be just the fist right next to the guy, again in the perspective of the guy about to be punched. Though the panel would be small vertically, but long horizontally, many parts of the fist would extend beyond the panel and into the gutters, maybe also other panels.

The next page would be when I would finally draw the blow, and it would either take up about half the page or the entire page. Through this, it's almost as if the reader felt the punch. He saw the opponents speed, and he even "saw" the punch coming toward him, and the varying sizes of the panels were almost like camera work in a movie. As a result, the heavy blow is accented.

>>1972240
reposted because my older one was a wall of text

I am pretty focused on comic book art myself. I like it the best as a medium. I like a lot of different artists, but currently Francis Manapul is my favorite. He uses Watercolor and ink washes for his shading which give his panels a really great, almost organic feel when colored. While I don't have the same general style as him (although I have been copying his art to get a feel for the way he shades) I want to shade in the same style because it works for me.

Really, as for inking, I taught myself how by watching some videos about techniques, then printing out pencils from artists like Manapul and Jim Lee and inking them myself. Then I inked some stuff that I drew. Inking is really essential and is probably the hardest part of the entire process if you go from a bare pencil sketch (so they don't do much shading themselves).

>>1972253

Comics drawn with grids rarely stick with one panel size the whole way through. In Watchmen there is a 3x3 grid that makes nine panels, but the panels are often merged to make larger shots and more rarely split to make narrower panels. This allowed Gibbons to make both widescreen panels for big impact and very narrow panels to show the slow progression of time, all working within the groundwork of a grid (pic related).

Dark Knight Returns takes this even further with it's 4x4 grid. Splitting the page into 16 panels means the panels by default are very small, but by merging them vertically and horizontally an enormous variety of panels can be created.

This gets down to the advantage of the grid: It provides a point of reference. If you establish the size and shape of a standard panel then when you deviate from it it carries more impact. If you don't establish rules in the layout then all you have is chaos, where the layout you chose has zero meaning because it's not in relation to any other layout in the book. By using a grid you can set a baseline and easily control the intensity and pacing of your layouts.

The only times you'll see a grid not being used that way is in Silver Age comics, which favored a 2x3 grid. But what that method sacrifices in flexibility and dynamics it makes up for compositionally, as the unique attributes of a 2x3 layout make it very easy to draw a scene that reads very smoothly.

>>1972310

Forgot pic.

>>1972310
Ive read Watchmen. I know the scenes youre talking about, after the bomb i believe, there is even a full page panel i think. Even so, its still a grid most of the time. A grid that even when changing, follows the rules. Why couldn't watchmen experiment with diagonal panels, big panels, cutting Zone panels boarderless panels? All those grids did was as moore said, make it easier for him to pace his story. What made me continue watchmen despite being linear in composition was the characters, mainly rorschach. Other than that i also liked how they took advantage of the medium by having 2 stories at the same time. But I feel like grids like that would work well maybe for a page in a book, not the entire thing!

>>1972310
Sorry i just read other parts of your post. Grids make it easy in that aspect, but honestly for most pages in watchmen i couldn't feel that. Most notably when rorscach and the owl are getting beat up, i felt like that scene highlighted the disadvantages of a grid. I didnt really feel like they got beat up. The book could have articulated that so much better if it didnt restrict itself. When he caught rorscaches fist, that was akwardly done i feel. The whole scene didnt really have a climax. I also recall how for a couple panels in that scene, the horizon line stayed the same. Ive never read dark night returns, but ill check it out. It seems it experiments a bit more atleast.

>>1972553
That one scene was good though, atleast gibbons figured out to make that part big panels instead of a grid, you know when it hits

>>1972500
>>1972553
>Why couldn't watchmen experiment with diagonal panels, big panels, cutting Zone panels boarderless panels

Because that didn't fit with the tone of the book. In fact, that would have been the exact opposite of the tone of the book. Watchmen is not a wild, energetic, bombastic story. It's a very slow, thoughtful and mechanical story. It moves forward like clockwork at a steady pace and thats what the grid adds to the function of the story (in addition to being a tribute to old comics).

The fight scenes aren't supposed to explode with energy, they're supposed to feel underwelming and undramatic because Moore and Gibbons are trying to show how underwelming and undramatic superheroes would be in the real world. If Moore and Gibbons had gone in with all sorts of gimmicky panels to make the action more visceral they would have been undermining their own story.

Besides, all of those fancy panel tricks are only effective in action scenes, of which there are only a handful in Watchmen.

>Ive never read dark night returns, but ill check it out. It seems it experiments a bit more atleast.

It is. While Watchmen was a look back at the past, Dark Knight was a look to the future. Frank Miller was one of the first American artists to feverently read manga and meld some of that influence into his own work. He took a very chaotic approach to the grid.

>I feel like grids like that would work well maybe for a page in a book, not the entire thing!

That defeats the purpose of having a grid in the first place.

>>1972701
The grids use doesn't need to be set in stone...I don't see why it has to be that way.

The grid could be used for other things as well. Tezuka used the grid to highlight a duel between two characters. His grid was only half the page, but his use of small panels in a grid really showed the emotional tension on the main character. 256

>>1972317
By the way, where are you finding these images? I can't find Watchmen online

>>1972740
>The grids use doesn't need to be set in stone...I don't see why it has to be that way.

I already explained this... Repetition is what gives a grid its strength. If you don't use it consistently then it's just another page of random subdivisions.

>By the way, where are you finding these images?

Google for Watchmen and my digital copy of DKR.

>>1972780
Alright man, well what can I say. You make some valid points. I guess I just don't prefer that type of style. You know what though, I hope you still managed to see what I meant. Not necessarily for Watchmen, but for American comics I mean. A while ago I was reading Killing Joke, and as a whole I really like the book. Would you consider that a grid? I mean, it kind of uses a grid, but it changes it up a lot. Anyway, unlike Watchmen I felt the pacing in that one was good, and I didn't mind the grid-like style at all in that one, so I guess it was the grid + the text of watchmen that drew me more away from it.

But you know I don't get why both styles can't reap of their benefits. There are obviously things that both sides do better than each other and for me the side of american comics is mainly the storylines. I don't read that much American comics, I try to but usually I'm swayed away from them when I see the things that I mentioned above. The very few I do read have really engaging stories, even when confined to super-heroes. A modern day example this off the top of my head would be Snyder, particularly with the Court of Owls stories; the first two volumes that I read.

Japanese comics tend to be a lot more cheesy in their mainstream, but the pacing of the stories often times make up for it. As much as I admire Tezuka, even I can't deny that I saw the ending of MW coming from a mile way...

Look man, I'm not one of those guys who are biased towards one or the other, but I stand by what I said. I guess Watchmen was a good chance to use a grid by your points, but could you really tell me that it would be the only way to express a story like that? I'm sure that if you really wanted to, you could express all these different things you mentioned without the use of a grid. I'm not saying that it was right or wrong that he used a grid, but what I'm saying is that there is more than one way to do something, and that comics still have room for more discovery.

>>1972827

Watchmen could have been made differently but it would have been inferior (as would changing anything else about it). That look was the perfect choice for that book

As for Killing Joke, it didn't follow a grid. Some pages are 2x3, some are 3x3, some are 4x3 and a lot of them mix in different ways. Killing Joke is laid out more like a typical Silver Age comic, which usually stuck to 2x3 but mixed it up a bit as opposed to the very strict adherence of a 3x3 in Watchmen.

>>1972876
Got it. Well it was definitely an interesting series of responses I had with you. So far I like the traditional look dark knight returns has, something I think is nice when comics do. I'll check out more of it, maybe at a local library.