/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

So i decided last week i want to get into drawing as a hobby and git gud. A week later i'm still keen on it so i figure i'll splash some cash and start. This isn't a question of how more what materials.
I'm gonna grab some basic pencils, eraser, sharpener and sketchpad and grind "drawing with the left side of the brain" over the weekend, should i get anything else?
Kind of interested in doing digital work as well should i buy a wacom tablet off the bat?
Also any other advice for a complete novice?
>inb4 loomis
I have his books ready to go

>>1909121
perspective before figure drawing

>>1909126
Thanks.

>>1909126
Even before gesture?

>>1909138
do both at the same time, youll need gesture for everything as much as perspective

and the trick for gesture is learning to recognize gesture as opposed to just putting one down, which anybody can do from day 1

>>1909126
not true.

>>1909142
I would like to see your gestures

>>1909110
Will practicing Loomis' drawing books help me to get out of animu? I'm trying to switch over to realism but always find myself occasionally doodling anime drawings and failing to draw decent looking realistic ones.

>>1909157
Do Vilppu instead

if you want to do realism then just study real faces

>>1909126

What exercises would be best to study perspective?

I literally don't even know how to draw a stick man but I want to learn how to draw so fucking much

I don't even know how or where to start
pls help

>>1909190
Read sticky pls

>>1909190
draw bane

* Everytime before drawing I have started little warm up's as were mentioned on one of sycra's videos, trying to get confident lines, but this has left me with a question about wrist. Is elbow/shoulder always preferable, even if doing finer details? Just seems like wrist works just fine for smaller scale and fumbles, when longer lines are needed, where elbow/shoulder come to aid.

* I have basically barely begun Keys to Drawing, but at least with simpler objects( like a table lamp, kettles etc.) "draw what you see" seems kind of lacking. I prefer trying to divide them in 3D shapes while following what I see, but afterwards I can recreate the object from a different view(although perspective/proportion are out of whack) which I find totally awesome and inspiring at my 'beginnerness' as well as it feels it does much more good for my visual library.

Question then is, am I not getting ahead of myself, are there any cons I should know about doing it this way? What about going further into KtD, where to me at least it seems it's more about shape and negative spaces, kind of 2D'ifying/copying what eye sees. Just seems kind of counter-intuitive to me, to do that, especially when the goal for me is drawing from imagination. At the same time more complex forms are quite difficult(sometimes- borderline impossible) for me to divide into simple ones. So am I on the right track or trying to chew more than I can handle? Anything I should add/change?

what should i improve?

>>1909234
everything

Sometimes when I finish a drawing and show it to someone else and they don't say something 100%positive, I start hating it and lose my motivation to draw for like a week
what do

>>1909454
Use that as a motivator to get better. Think of it like getting those 500 bad drawings out of your system. Also know that you should always strive to make your next picture better than the one before.

>>1909234
nothing. it is perfect.

>>1909214
Yes you are getting ahead of yourself, you should be able to copy exactly what you see first as a starting point, it builds your core measuring skills that you use to learn other things.

>>1909477
hey, do you think its really important to finish a drawing if you realize half way through, that you've fucked something up, you correct it but still can't get it to look right?

I usually get half way through a drawing and then can't complete it because I get stuck on a certain part and can't get it right until I start a new piece. Why is this?

>>1909512
I see, very well, glad I asked. Thank you, it was a good answer!

Practicing heads for the first time.

Kinda got more comfortable with it by the 5th and 6th attempt

>>1909541
Get it done first, get it right second. Finish it but don't add too much shit to it. And don't get too attached to it, you'll make better drawings in due time.

Sum beans and gestures

trying to apply the bean to gesture

>>1909549
Keep in mind that in profile the height of the head is equal to the length (from the nose to back of the head. It will keep your heads from looking squashed.

I won't make any excuses. I really don't have anywhere else to turn at this point.

So after about a year's hiatus at art improvement due to anxiety I picked it back up and it's kicking back in.

http://i.imgur.com/wlhpCGh.jpg
The guy I referenced
http://i.imgur.com/oID6K2T.jpg
one angle attempt
http://i.imgur.com/qsUj4Iw.jpg
cleaner camera angle

I didn't draw in his left leg because I ran out of space on the computer paper, which is also actually a rather consistent problem for me.

I know I messed up on his right hand in particular. And his left forearm for looking like a misplaced leg. I didn't know how to fill in the hair and just stopped halfway since it was going nowhere. I tried shading in part of his left arm like in the picture but it ended up into a disaster with no form.
I've been stuck at around this level for a while. I tried to pick up several things on shading with my pen and learning to give texture to hair but I haven't gone anywhere the last time I tried it.
It's just been so difficult to replicate. That said that was all in one go, I tried to give every line you see there one stroke aside from the shading. Didn't use anything else if it means, well, anything.

I'm using a staedtler liquid point 7. I know I have to improve on my texture, but I don't know how to exactly. The pen requires a stupid good amount of control to access all its densities, and a normal no. 2 pencil is getting me nowhere.
How do I move out of this level, /ic/?

>>1909634

Also if I may, I know my anatomy is still quite a way from perfect but I feel like I've read way more about it than I should have and all that's left is to practice and go straight to improvement on texture, which is where I'm ultimately stuck.
If anyone else has any differing opinions please let me know.

is it recommended to do studies while trying to cure your symbol drawing? or would that be a waste of time?

These threats are stupid.
You. Are stupid.

The correct answer in all cases is
STFU and draw.

/thread

>>1909699
Damn
Man you are so cool!

Anything I can do to improve ?

>>1909704

I can't tell you a lot, but could you tell me how you made that hair, or how you learned to in detail?

>>1909705
I shaded in all of the hair then went back over it rubbing out where I thought the light would hit it and shaded more where the shadows would be, I tried to keep the light in the centre to make the hair look like it had volume to it .

>>1909706

So did you lightly and carefully shade in the hair or did you try each stroke one by one? I'm assuming the former, right?

>>1909707
I did strands but also shaded, I didn't want the hair to look like a load of thin spaghetti, the shading brings it together, you cant tell from the picture though

Just watched Scott Robertson's perspective video, how long do I need to grind these concepts before starting the book?

Also how do you stop yourself from getting frustrated and guessing things? Ellipses just seem impossible.

here is my first attempt at Igor Stravinsky after not trying to draw for 6 years i think the main problem is the head for some reason i find it hard to draw head features

>>1909711
>i find it hard to draw head features
With that exersise you're not focussing on drawing any features, you are simply drawing the lines. Don't associate them with the features, it defeats the purpose. That's why it's upsidown and all.

>>1909710
>Also how do you stop yourself from getting frustrated
Have you drawn even a single line before you got frustrated?
Then calm yourself, for you have drawn.
You have not not drawn.
You have not left the canvas blank.
During the time from the idea of wanting to draw something, and becoming frustrated, you have put down at least one more line than someone who didn't draw at all, yet time passed for both of you.

Was the line bad?
Perhaps, but you have drawn it.
You actually have a line put down you can analyze now.
The guy who didn't draw at all?

All he has is nothing to look at. Nothing to study from.
All he has is rage and emptiness.

You have made marks.

So why get mad?
Because it takes too long to git gud?

Well, it does take long.
But guess who will git gud faster.

You, the guy with shitty marks on the paper he can learn from?
Or the guy who wasn't even able to do that.

Embrace the shit. It is ineptitude leaving your body.

The sketch you have posted exceeds the abilities of the vast majority of people.
You're gonna make it, bro.

Anyone else constantly struggle with finding things to draw?

I've drawn for 1:45 so far and I've got 2:45 left to do today. I did my line and ellipse exercises for a half hour, after that it's spotty. I just can't think of what to draw. I'm in a horrible spot where I've drilled beginner exercises and have a good foundation there but I'm still not good enough to do finished pieces or even satisfactory sketches from imagination. What the fuck do I do?

Had to take a whole week off from drawing, Drew this with no fixes, Looks like shit

>>1909798
work through books

>>1909798

what do you like to do besides draw?

video games? draw your favorite video game character

history? draw your favorite historical figure re-imagined

comics? superheroes? mysteries? noir?

whats your favorite movie? draw your favorite movie character

favorite tv show? shit nigga, draw some ronin warriors!

It doesn't matter what you start drawing because even if you end up not liking it you will probably think of even more stuff to draw that you never would have thought of.

>>1909800

I've done a lot of drawings from Bridgman's Constructive Anatomy. I have no other books.

>>1909804

Nice idea but I already do that. I've got several sheets filled with awful Batman heads as well as plenty of John Waynes, Clint Eastwoods, Klaus Kinskis and Hannibal Lecters. It doesn't do anything.

Could someone please make a new regular draw thread? Udder one is full

>>1909799
Redrew it without Binary
It looks better but then the colouring comes out looking like crap

>>1909823
Also is any of these appropriate Gestures?

>>1909799
>>1909823
>>1909826

Pleas read the sticky.

>>1909823
>>1909799
Well i have to admit that you have the courage to upload those drawings.

>>1909601
>>1909627
You're focusing on contour, which isn't gesture. Watch the Proko videos again, since I assume that's what you've been doing.

>>1910035
This shit is frustrating really.
How do you ''feel'' gesture and focus less on contour?
Proko mentions that many times but never explains how exacty do so.
>Ignore details and exagerate pose,
I know that.
Do I look at the pose once and draw it from what I saw?

>>1910040

If anything I learned that the whole "feel" it thing is psychological bullshit. They say talent doesn't exist but I concur--feeling it is a talent.

Look at this shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMAHVTobi5g
that and proko and hampton and vilppu and loomis; millions of ways to do the same stupid thing. And then you come on /ic/ and beginners tell you "ohhhh you're focusing too much on contour, you gotta do it proko's way or else it's wrong!!'. Well fuck you mates, because of this whole gesture thing it's stopping people from moving on to learn what's most important, the anatomy.

>>1910043
>he cant feel it
lel enjoy your stiff loomis bots

>>1910045

Oh I can feel it. I can feel it deep within my balls.

btw post your scribbles, lets see how you can feel the force.

>>1910040
feeling your gesture is really just knowing whist your figure is doing and drawing it that way, study people in real life and try to capture their motion, then apply what you learn to your own figures

>>1910053

I don't get it. Can you post some examples of your own?

thanks

>>1910050

>>1910055

everytime

My last study on female face. The key of beauty in drawing is simmetry, the more simmetrical the better. Unfortunately, my anatomy tecnique is really really weak. I need a lot of work and exercise. (it's, like, my third study totally with pencil, usually i work only with pen)

>>1910043
>feel=talent

It's not talent, it's practice. When you've been drawing as long as Vilppu has all he has to do is "feel" out a pose because of the trial and error he went through when younger.

The thing is, I don't know how he doesn't see this being a teacher and everything.

This is an old hair study totally with black ballpen

When should i draw gestures? After i learned where to draw the bodyparts correctly (in other words not shit).

>>1910054
see >>1910055

i just wanted bro to be holding that scribble gun so thats what i made him do

and these, the anatomy is off but you might be able to detect movement in the lines

it dont matter if you use squiggles or not, what you want is movement

>>1910060

That and he knows exactly where to place his spherical forms because he knows his anatomy like a God. Which is why I'm not wasting any more time with this gesture shit. Pic related is true, I look through magazines and other artists just use line of action for their poses and utilize their extensive knowledge of anatomy.

As someone self studying I wouldn't know if I'm doing it right or wrong because I don't have vilppu or hampton correcting me but d/ic/ks. And d/ic/ks are not reliable.

>>1910062
gesture is basically what you start with

>>1910063

That I can do but I'm never satisfied with the results.

>there are plebs who can't feel anything when doing gestures

I pity you plebs.
Feeling the rhythm pull through feels fukken good mane.

>>1910067

post your shite or just stop acting like you can do it

>>1910066
So study people and see how they move to make your gestures convincing

>>1910064
Hes right, but you still gotta practice that shit like anything else

>>1910069

Yeah okay, but I now know not to follow some guys formula. I feel that following formulas is what's screwing with me.

>>1910072
thats the spirit, good luck anon!

>>1910061
>>1910061
I love this hairstyle

>>1910065
Well he has to study first what he has to draw where.

>>1910080
gestures everything, even rivers and mountains. John K is right when he says its about line of action, the real deal is controlling that shit

>>1910081
gesture applies to everything

>>1910076
Thanks. I also have this anatomical study, the first i did some months ago. I should start againg.

>>1910076
>>1910084
Sorry, forgot to attach the file. This:

>>1910040
Its just volume and practice dude, im sorry. You really do have to feel it.

Try to imagine how that person is feeling physically in that position and take note of it with simple lines.

The C S and I curves are important, be flowly, be exaggerative. You ARENT capturing form here, youre capturing the movement.

This is more or less how gesture should look, but dont draw over a picture, get a feeling for one or a model.

>>1910060

It's not practice, it's a way of thinking. I was able to feel the gesture as soon as I started watching Vilppu and even started feeling it when I looked at other people. Whether or not it helped my drawing is another case, but I found it much easier to do gesture drawing with Vilppu's method than with Proko's, which is basically an extremely simplified contour drawing.

>>1910096
The thing that confuses me is when they say "don't draw the contours" then later proceed to draw the fucking contours. Is it draw something like a stick then add some contours?

>>1910314
I think you'll find this video useful, helped me out. Listened carefully to how he explained the process of what he was doing and simply applied it to my attempts at gesture.

>>1910314
>>1910506
forgot link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBf5Q-7BdHI

>>1910507
3:15
>just feel the flow xDDDDDD

I was doodling and now im in a place where im stuck and im either backsliding or making no improvement what do i do?

I'm about to do Proko's anatomy tracing thing. Should I know anything before doing this? It just looks like he draws the muscles even though I don't see any clue as to how it would assume that shape.

>>1910028
>feeling shame in posting an Anonymous Image board

>>1910575

>>1910575
>Anonymous
Everybody knows each other here, Dave.

>>1910595
Nope

>>1910615
So close, though

>>1910515
Just keep going, study until you reach the level of your eyes, even if it looks like no improvement you just keep going

>>1910582
Nice dragon thing to your right.

I appreciate you probably get this a lot, but I want to draw animu. I know I need to get good at drawing in general, rather than going straight to weeb shit, and I've read the sticky, but I don't want to spend 3 years on stuff I'm not interested in just to draw uguu~ kawaii. What's the minimum I can do to get onto anime style, yet not be absolute shit?

>>1910660
Gotta learn construction and perspective anyway. It's fairly easy to adapt ye olde Loomis method to animu heads.

>>1910660
you need to draw lots of animu to get good at drawing that sort of thing. so draw lots of animu too. hopefully your taste will evolve as you go along and you'll get sick of animu, if not that's fine too, but you need to draw the thing you're trying to learn how to draw.

>>1909234
I love it

>>1910662
>>1910663
What about me
I want to draw a sort of Mix of Animu and cartoon sort of thing with a unique style I can call my own
How can I develop this?

>>1910665
find shit you like, copy elements that give you a boner, combine to get a unique something

>>1910660

You learn that shit WHILE doing your kawaii uguu animu. Learning the fundamentals is important and shit, but you don't have to completely abstain from doing shit you want to do in order to learn. Hell, learning the fundamentals devoid from context is just pointless scribbling that only boring fucks who think they're the next great master.

Plus, with any sort of stylization you need to look at the people who take their shit seriously and who know what they're doing. Especially with anime and manga, you get a lot of artists who take shortcuts out of the need to do shit on the quick and on the cheap. Plus you get those who are more focused on other aspects of the medium instead of technical mastery, shit like animation and story and the like. Art books are usually a really good source for finding inspirational shit, as that's when they're at their best.

Also, try out as many things as possible. Only boring fucks are interested in only one thing. Don't be a boring as fuck interested in only one thing, cause that's the number one cause of burnout and burnouts spend their entire life on /ic/ bitching about shit while not getting anything done. Don't just do animu, especially if you're at least half serious about art.

>>1910669
Fucking Love Personas Promotionals

>>1910669
Where does anon actually start with anime? Should I just copy other stuff until I can do it without copying?

>>1910673

It's study & apply. There's no set "you have to be able to draw as good as this to draw this." Like you learn perspective, draw rectangles and objects with depth and shit, then try to draw your animus with depth. You will fuck up and that's okay. Learn from your mistakes and try it again. When you learn shit like how to draw people in motion you first practice analyzing life drawings of people in motion, then you try applying it to your animus. Again, you will fail at first and that's okay, just learn from your shit.

You don't copy so much as you analyze. Yeah it's a lot of work but anything worth doing takes a lot of fucking work and bullshit. The mentality you need is "you're waifus are worth it"

>>1910660

The minimum is stupidly low if you want to draw sameface moe blobs for deviantshits. But if you want to draw high quality moe blobs you have to grind that XP for that epic loot upgrade.
>>1910673
>Should I just copy other stuff until I can do it without copying?

That's what high schoolers do. You can only get so far doing that but you end up developing an eye for what looks good because you end up copying a lot of stuff. At least for me. You honestly can do whatever, just don't skimp on studies.

>>1910676
>>1910678
Ok anons, that sounds good. Again, probably a shit question, but how long are we looking? Say for low those sameface moeblobs?

Is this a proper Gesture?

>>1910684

Ehh maybe 1 year to reach threshold. We're talking:
lvl 1) see pic
lvl 2) mark crilley level of work
lvl 3) what you typically see in the stylization thread
lvl 4) what you'd see on youtube of high school kids doing deviant art level work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQsSkwQF9BE
Reminder you really don't want to just copy anime like you're a kid, you are an adult and are in a position to learn faster with the resources you have.

Have at me

>be me
>move to new town
>give away my old bamboo
>think ill buy a better tablet as soon as possible
>two months pass
>drawing gestures portraits and figures in pencil
>get new tablet (huion 610pro)
>first pic (ufinished yet)

any major things im doing wrong considering the anatomy / pose / proportions ?
besides hiding the hands and needing to practice digital painting workflow

dont be gentle

>>1910701
Oh boy. Check Bridgman and Loomis anatomy construction. Maybe try to do it with pencil, not digitally.

>>1910685
That is a stick figure and not a gesture.
>>1910700
just...no
>>1910701
enjoyee that pooion while it lasts, I hear they have incredibility bad warranty. As for the picture it's all a muddy mess.

>>1910706
Whats the difference
I get told to not use more than 8 lines to get a Gesture down

>>1910710

That is one guys method (I'm sure proko said that) and by those 'no more than 8 lines' he means no more than 8 lines that convey "C" "S" or "I" curves.

Now he tells you that to get you into the habit of not going into a seizure of trying to get the gesture down for people who are new to it but if you watch his Q&A he says after you understand why he tells you that you can put as many lines as you want as long as you capture the movement.

Is there a good, easy-to-use programs that I can use for poses? Something like a mannequin, but as a computer program so I don't have to carry one with me?

>>1910713
But then it becomes "Anatomy" which is what everyone tells me here

>>1910717
No, see pic.

>>1910719
that's stupid, who knocked that up. must be translated from another language.

>>1910720

That's Sheldon, one of the best teachers alive today dude.

>>1910706
Well, whats wrong with my drawing
I did it in just 8 minutes without touching it back up
I want to know whats wrong about it

So i started drawing today and this is the first thing I've ever drawn that wasn't a stick man doodle on a post-it.
I know it's shit but for the first time in a long time i feel like I've accomplished something

I've always tried to hurry, and now i can draw fast, but i just never learned to draw well.

How do i slow down without doing too many lines.

I know i have to stop and think before i do anything, as well as be aware of everything i do, but its so easy to get carried away and start scribbling and fucking everything up.

halp, ic

>>1910746
You start by taking your useless trip of you nigger

>>1910746
you just draw on a bigger surface

Is there any good exercises to speed up the process of drawing?
I'm happy with my current skill level but it can sometimes take me a whole month to finish one picture, I want to improve my timing since I've been taking more commissions lately.

Is there perhaps some daily exercises that would speed me up a little or should I just give myself a time limit and try to work within that?

>>1910714
It's a pretty bad idea bruh (if I understood you correctly), chances are you won't be able to get a natural-looking pose that way, better just use references.

>>1910719
Is THIS better?

>>1910745

Try being less chicken-scratchy with your lines. Your lines should be long, sweeping, and confident.

>>1910771
I'm finding if i do that i hesitate and muck up the line. and if i do something a bit quicker i can get a nice line but my accuracy sucks.
Any tips or exercises i can do to improve my line work and pencil wielding technique?

>>1910738
Read the sticky

>>1910704
thx will do

this was just to satisfy my hunger for working with colour, i am drawing mainly with pencil at the moment - and merely drawing, i havent even touched values in any decent way yet

>>1910669
>Art books are usually a really good source for finding inspirational shit, as that's when they're at their best.

Know any books specifically you'll recommend in regards to the subject matter?

>>1909110
>draw something for warmup
>it comes out decent
>brain immediately goes: well, we're done here.
>don't draw anything else for the rest of the day

My progress is so slow because of it.

I don't even know where to start. I've gone through Loomis in the past, and nothing clicked. I stuck with it for a period of 2/3 weeks, and while I obviously wouldn't get amazing that quickly, I just didn't feel I was learning anything. I'm a very logical person (I study mathematics), so I just don't click with the artsy stuff yet. What can I do to get over this? It's incredibly demotivating when you stick with something and it's just not working.

>>1910793
Loomis is pretty logical, though.

Also, don't think in weeks.
Think in half a years at least.

Your brain must be molded first. It takes time.

>>1910793
>>1910794
To get over frustration:
consider
>>1909734
and realize that time will pass no matter what you do.
it is up to you to do something (or nothing) with it.

Also, read
http://www.libertyeyeschool.com/ap2d.cfm?subpage=1655939

Not all the chapters are there, but that's not necessary anyway.
The ones that are there should be enough to get you over the worst doubts.

>>1910685
>Is this a proper Gesture?
Almost.
It's a little stiff and can be smoothed out some more but yeah. Getting there.

>>1910789
At least you're drawing every day. Even drawing 30 minutes for that one day will be enough to keep you going. So that way, when you do find the day to push yourself, you haven't lost progression and can continue where you left off.

Others I've known would stop drawing for a good couple of weeks, only to find themselves stepping back to recover lost time.

>>1910805
sometimes stopping for a while in beneficial in itself

>>1910801

I just a gesture is basically "the jist of the motion/pose is as few lines as possible, then use what remaining time you have left to fill in more detail from most important to least."

>>1910805
>At least you're drawing every day
That I am and it does show results.
I just gotta find my sweet spot to keep on going for longer during the day.

How good would someone be after they are done with Fun with a Pencil?

How much did you guys actually study when you started?

>>1910819
1 to 8 hours a piece, 2 pieces per week, something like that. Didn't really have any guidance apart from an art forum with some internet people that were also pretty fucking bad.

>>1910813
I know this sounds silly but hopefully this dumb story of mine provides some inspiration. Where I live, there was a hole in a wall arcade next to the college I would go to. There, they have a set of Street Fighter machines that I'd go to and play games on against other players. I would only play for an hour or two every other day day, and sometimes watch videos on the side as my "study" to improve. Watching these videos, I never thought I'd see myself compete against players that much better than me, as all I could do was watch and tell myself I'd never get to that level. Granted, I'd still played since I felt it was a good time killer in-between classes.

About 8 months in or so, other players started to notice me and thought that I "wasn't bad". My confidence kind of grew but I still put little time into the game since I didn't have much of a strong interests. As time went on, I decided to put slightly more time into the game since now I had a better understanding as to what I was doing, only to find out that I was actually having "fun".

2 years past, now I'm one of those players up on stage competing among those who I've simply watched. What I'm getting at here, anything is possible. I know it sounds cliché, but don't look at your slow drawing as negative thing. As long as you keep at it, you will progress into getting better at your art. And who knows, perhaps you may find that small motivation that I found where you start putting more and more time into it.

>>1910775
Can anyone give me some advice on this?

>>1910830
Doesn't sound silly, sounds perfectly logical.

>>1910832
have you heard of "ghosting the line" it's where you practice drawing the line a few times without actually touching the paper before you draw the actual line. i think that pretty much solves your problem.

>>1910841
Thanks ill give that a go tomorrow.

>>1910769
No, you're applying construction and drawing vague contours
>>1910808
The second half of that statement is bad for someone practicing gesture, as detailing gesture exercises is directly contradictory to the point of a gesture and causes the artist to try and draw a figure. Gestures are purely to capture movement energy and how the subject holds its weight. This is best achieved through following the subject's line of action (generally leading from the head down to the foot bearing the subject's weight if the subject is a person) with long and sweeping lines.

A lot of people seem to run into a common pitfall emphasized by >>1910685
The artist here is attempting to copy the idea of a gesture by drawing lines that kind of make up a humanoid figure, which is wrong. The whole point of gestures aren't to use only a couple of lines or to use a bunch of lines and make the image look rough and sketchy like >>1910055
. Again, these are just focusing on the idea of lines, not the idea of capturing motion and weight alone, which just so happens to be achievable easiest via flowing lines of action. The reason people recommend to use as few lines as possible is so that the artist is forced to trace the line of action, otherwise their drawing won't capture the entire subject, not because random lines look cool.

Hey guys, trying digital painting, and whenever I try to blend/render/finish my painting it goes to all shit.


I understand value, and start my paintings by blocking in the big values/colors and everything is peachy. When I try to blend these big shapes together, create soft edges, and generally smooth out certain things, the values/colors get all muddy and shitty and it looks like a mess.
How do I blend/create soft edges without it fucking up my values/colors?

>>1909693
no, it isn't a waste of time. That's exactly how you cure it

>>1910943
perhaps your canvas isn't big enough

>>1909110
retoasted from old bread

>>1910064
>mfw ive been doing gesture drawing evryday for a year now (20 min of 30s and 60s=
>mfw i quicky got the feel of the figure and helped me with line confidence
>mfw i see this post when my animation senpai says is useless, and you could spending time on other things

dont know how to get on from here

>>1911119

Gestures are a really good warm up. Like how running long distances won't necessarily make you a better soccer or basketball player, but it'll help you get in shape to do the required training and exercises.

Plus being able to place down the line of action is really fucking useful. It's good to get that bit down pat like anything else.

>>1909711
better than mine.
I sit here typing this worthless faggot speech in tears, because I am not good enough and I feel that no matter how hard I try I will always be shit at everything.

I've wanted to learn to draw for a while now, today I unboxed the tablet and installed the software my aunt bought me and produced this shit, immediately felt bad that she would regret her faith in me and then curled up into a ball for about two hours.

this is a pain i've never really felt before. Ineptitude with the tablet, ineptitude with the software, the realization that i'll probably never amount to anything because I'm worthless...

the only reason I have not killed myself, which I would have done weeks ago, is because my aunt thinks I should put the stuff I talk about into paper, and I feel like I owe her for this act of kindness.

but most of all its because the world I dream of is far better than the one I have, full of adventures and strange worlds, a place I eagerly look forward to in every waking moment. A place I want to share with others.

i think 2015 might be my last year, but as I'm unemployable and cannot seem to work up the motivation to go see a doctor because there's no point, I come here to ask if I should keep trying or end it now, because I know I have problems and cannot answer this question for myself.

>>1911129

Stop...stop with the feels.....

>>1911129
I am just curious how old you are. I am in my 30s and have just started learning to draw. You are basically giving up because you aren't good yet. You are defining your self worth by impossible standards. You need to change that. Seem like most artists have this tendency to think their stuff should be worlds away from where they are. You are not accepting where you are. You are basically saying, i better quit because I can't just draw incredibly well yet. That is like saying, why bothering going on vacation when I am not there yet. If you don't enjoy the journey, what the hell good is it?

I suck too, but I am not giving up. Try taking another approach to learning. I was drawing faces last night and it was shit. So I went back and looked at some loomis face stuff and really focused on what I thought I was doing wrong and changed that. An hour later I was drawing much better. The real key to success is consistency.

Also, you need time to learn the tablet. I suck with my tablet too, but I am slowly getting better.

comfort zone animoo drawing before I start studying

where can I get some good studies for female anotomy. I need to be able to draw hips

>>1911135

I had another good cry and I'm feeling a little better now.


as far as books and stuff goes, I am reading perspective made easy, and have a natural sense for how perspective should look, but what i draw is not what I want or even see, and progressing through the books is very slow, I just feel lost.

but I'm starting to get the impression that by tracing and drawing from reference, copying what I see not as it is but as the lines and shapes that make it I'll get better until I can start drawing without reference.

I'm not really interested in making things ultra realistic, but anatomy and perspective are high on my list to become familiar with in the digital setting, and the only things that are really holding me back beyond that is i honestly have no fucking idea what I'm doing.


how many hours should I dedicate to this a day so I don't get burned out? 5? or more?

i have a lot of stuff from the sticky opened up right now, and a few youtube pages, but I think I'm overwhelming myself.

>>1911155
No clue, but have some hips here

>>1911155
damn

>>1911155
If you're just looking for girls who are good to draw I'd try enji-night as she's basically a magnified version of the feminine form.

Also seriously goddamn, who is the girl? If you have any more of it you should post, I'd really like to draw girls like that.

Would a single day beginner course be beneficial? I would like to commit to something on a weekly basis but the nature of my work means i cannot.

tips, advice, anything is welcome...

>>1911142

That drawing feels a bit flat to me. I can't articulate why but i don't get a sense of depth with it.

Maybe it's because its just lineart I don't know.

>>1909512
does this include tracing?

not the guy who asked but my reference drawing is shit. should i mix occasional tracing in for gitting gud at lineart until i outgrow it?

>>1909601 >>1910685 >>1909627 >>1910769
If you didn't even understand proko's explanation of gestures, then you either failed after hours of practice or just made one attempt, failed and then gave up or you didn't listen carefully. There is not one good way of doing gestures.
A good gesture drawing is when you can tell by the first look what's going on with the character. It's not going to come to you easily, you need to pracice it until you get it right. Don't just start scribbling, analize that pose, then find he motion (i won't explain this further go read vilppu or watch proko etc.).

>>1911160
Who is this ? She is fine as fuck I think is photoshopped hope not

>>1911236
thanks for the feedback
I'll try practicing those loomis heads

hey guys, all i wanna do is learn how to draw tits and hips, maybe even furry ones sometimes.

so i went out like a turbofaggot, bought myself a 300$ tablet, and checked out the art sticky.

what specifically do I need to teach myself in that sticky? I can tell from looking at this thread anatomy and gestures, but is that a good place to start? I can't figure it out because you all keep arguing.

>>1911285

As long as you're not trying to pass the trace off for money or ass pats and doing it for sole purpose of learning there's nothing wrong with it. You'll just get better faster drawing from observation, the more you do it the less you'll suck, easier said then done I know.

Are line consistency exercises a good idea?

I mean shit like drawing over the same line several times, trying to draw perfect circles, etc.

>>1911368

oh fuck no. I have more honor than that. I want to bring my brains out into the world, currently that means art not a shotgun but we'll see how she goes...

also, I'm a no life neet who lives with his father, has crippling social anxiety and have not been able to work myself up to see a doctor in 8 years. hell, sometimes I walk to the overpass near my house and just stand there for hours looking for vehicles which would be one hit kills.

i have no money or art supplies, but i have a computer and the entirety of the internet, and I'm really hating using 4chan as a crutch right now but I really am a fucking chernobyl.


I want to do more than play videogames and be worthless. I want to share the world I cry myself to sleep in order to get to, and it's been two days since I've tried to start drawing and all i've come up with is shit, and so the game is on. either I keep trying until I stop being shit, or I die being shit. But i've got a whole bunch of ebooks, a father who lets me freeload, and nothing but time. So If I can get past my wide swinging manic depression, I think I might have a shot at this.

>>1911384
and also i'd like to add, while i am shit, the framework and drawing itself is not what intimidates me, that can be fixed in repetition, shortcutting with software, and reviewing past work.

what intimidates me is the coloring. My imagination only seems to work in black and white, and when i try to picture coloring anything my head explodes.

>>1911384
sell your videogames and focus on art then

>>1911388
no, i cannot sell my videogames. I don't even own most of them.

besides that, there's only one I play and it takes up about 10% of my actual waking time.

the rest used to be allocated to browsing 4chan, but today was the first day where I sat from 1 pm to 9pm doing something mildly constructive instead of masturbating and crying.

i didn't even walk to the overpass today, I'd say that's an improvement. Weekends are the worst.

>>1911382
It is to get comfortable and confident with your drawing utensil. If you're green then it'd be in your best interest to fill a few pages a day of ellipses, circles, curves and lines.

>>1911398
I can't fucking into circles at all. They always come out uneven and shitty.

>>1911409
Of course they are if you haven't practiced drawing them. Chances are you will never have an actual need to draw perfect circles but it would be behoove of you to practice them to build up your confidence in drawing basic geometric shapes, just try your best and be sure to use only one unbroken line.

so how do I improve? It's suppose to be a Loomis exercize

>>1911409

Drawing a perfect circle is very difficult and most people can't draw a perfect one freehand. You just need to be good enough. Draw your circle in one line, then rotate it 90 degrees. That'll show you if it's too short or narrow so you can touch it up.

Any situation where you need to draw a 100% accurate, clean circle is a situation where a circle template or compass comes in handy.

>when i try to picture coloring anything my head explodes.

Thats because color is a whole other dimension. Artists train to be able to simulate three dimensions on a two dimensional surface. Color is not on the X, Y or Z axis. It's something that comes with practice.

>>1910513
if you can't feel the basic movements of the gesture than maybe you're not cut out for art?

>>1911436
so should I learn how to paint happy trees first?

>>1911437

woah there I just pointed that out just because

you are jumping to conclusions

>>1911325
Pretty sure thats fake, But Miss Issy is real

>>1911142
as >>1911236 said, feels flat. The drawing as a whole is lovely, though. I advise doing study on 3D construction, specifically on curved surfaces. Fun With A Pencil is okay, but I feel that you have enough practical skill to not spend too much time on it, there are better guides out there and Loomis is mainly an introduction to drawing.

This is the best drawing Ive done yet
The anatomy is coming together, And the perspective I think looks better and the eyes look symmetrical
The skirt looks Flat and the hand is fucked, but I haven't really done much hands yet

>>1911504
are anime drawings usually flat? Is it the illustrations that are usually more 3d?
also tried out vilppu for the first time, want to make sure I'm doing this right especially for the bottom pic

>>1911571
sorry I just realized how much I fucked up on the chin
it's all little fucked up in general because it was quick, anyway is this how your suppose to do it with studies?

Face study for today, looks really wonky i think and my brushwork still suuuucks

>>1911548
I get the feeling you skipped realism.

>>1911199
>girl

>>1911584
I did it back when we used to do studies, What ever happened to them
Im currently trying to draw from creating a pose from mind

>>1911587
Look at her face. She looks pretty young.

>>1911592
That's a dude , nigga.

>>1911591
Fucking hell I hate hands

>>1911576
way too fucking light m8

>>1911606
Yeah, but that's actually what i'm aiming. I don't really wanna copy the ref 100%. I wanna play with it. I guess i failed then. Ah lol

>>1911572

Hey can you or anyone else post that fat faggot for me? I need it for intense art study.

>>1911594
nah man hips don't lie

>>1911629
google image search...

>>1911629
here... http://spectrumofadistantdream.tumblr.com/tagged/me

you know you'd still fap to it :^)

>>1911548
>The anatomy is coming together, And the perspective I think looks better and the eyes look symmetrical

Key word "I think" when in reality it looks like complete shit. It's obvious you don't understand what you're doing and your drawings will always look like shit until you do real studying.

Honestly, you're only hurting yourself, but if you really want to limit your progress that's up to you. I'm happy to say that looking at your art gives me hope so my progress isn't stagnated like your work.

>>1911633
Well shit, I'm just gonna pretend I don't know and continue fapping to him...er her.

When do you practice gestures? I sometimes do it at school .

>>1911658
Stop trying to help that guy a lot of people already tried and he ain't listening

>>1911713
RAGE

Any people use skype here? We should start a beginner group or something I dont feel so proud of my shit except to post it here and Make pretty quick sketches so my quality varies from wtf are you retarded to man youre ok. Ive been trying to make a portrait out of myself but I get a very flatface, currently working on the nose and eyes, lips are easy and the chin I get in pretty easily but I have a problem getting it 100% clean and like a redline in my patience and technique I dont even know If Im making any sense so yo.

My shitty work.

>>1911783

>>1911584
realism is overrated.

unless we're talking realistic anatomy, or you want to paint portraits of real people.

of course i literally just started doing shit today, so we'll see if my perspective changes.


speaking of which is loomis fun with a pencil a good place to start? I spent 15 minutes with it and actually had fun.

>>1911791
Definitely

>>1911783
>>1911783
>>1911786
Shouldn't you be with Lucy right now?

Blah. One of things I worked on today. Breaking in a new graphite holder a friend gave me. This looks loads worse on the computer than it did when I stopped working in it.

after 40 minutes i started to regret taking small paper, anyway, could i have some opinions?

>>1911771
There is one, but it's not that active, start one, and ill join you maybe https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111464405561641904288

>>1911877
follow up question, my hand feels like its going to come off, should I take a break?

I also disappeared for three hours doing other stuff. How much art is enough for a day for a beginner? Should I keep going? I do have asprin.

>>1910507
Followin along these vídeos, what do you guys think ?

>>1911576
>>1911619
Here's an idea, if you want to do something different from the reference, instead of doing whatever you were doing how about changing the light source to another direction or if you're feeling more daring change the position of the character head

>>1910819
didn't study whatsoever
i just copied animu shit for a couple of years until i started doing my own stuff and improved over time

Any good books on rendering/shading/whateveryouwanttocallit?
I already have Color and Light from James Gurney.

>>1912070
Just keep at it. If you feel you need a break cause a specific piece is giving you trouble, try it again. If it still giving you trouble, step away from it for a few hours then come back.

So many times I've done a piece and I think it looks like shit. Take a walk, come back 30 minutes later and the very piece I just drew actually looks really good.

If you do take a long break, try drawing at least 30 minutes a day and find more time to draw when you can. Don't give up.

>>1912150
well i went through 18 pages in one day, I'd say that's a smashing progress in a book thats only 120 pages or so (although some of those have nothing on them so i cheated a little)

i figure if i practice balls and shapes as a 15 minute warmup every day, take a short break, and then attack as many pages as I can until my hand gets crippled, then I'll be making good practice, going over pages i had trouble with the next day.

I'm a bit of a procrastinator, but I believe what john cleese said that sleeping on a problem can make all the difference.

I just want to master this book, because I want to do cartooning. I also want to master anatomy and perspective, but i'm going to go with this loomis book first.

>>1912246
>>1912070
If your hands are seriously hurting take a break, do some wrist stretches etc, it's not worth carpal tunnel or some other muscular injury.

On another note I started with "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" dropped it in the first few minutes and tried "Keys to Drawing" which i'm finding much better. I just couldn't stand the authors bullshit in the former.
Mainly want to do cartoons and anime/mangoo but i enjoy art all together and i really need to break my brains symbol drawing.

>>1912262
i already have swollen tendons and carpal tunnel from video gaming and ignorance. I do exercises on the hour for stretching tendons, and a set of carpal tunnel exercises five times a day. its improving my condition since i started doing them yesterday.

but my hands hurt because i have arthritis. i honestly dont know how many years i have left before it swallows my hands, so I need to focus on this now while I can.

>>1911129

Don't get disheartened anon i also am extremely bad at drawing, its something i would like to be good at one day so i keep practicing iv only been at it for 2 weeks and i still draw like a retarded ape but i am seeing myself improve very slowly which is nice, when ever i get disheartened i attempt to draw anime girls since its what i want to be good at one day and even tho she looks like a spooky alien i had fun drawing her and i can see myself slowly get better.

>>1911129

I understand this feeling of worthlessness and ineptitude very well, which is why I can't blame you for feeling this way. Instead I'll just ask you one question:

how much time do you spend drawing per day?

Most great artists spent years drawing for 6-8 hours a day or more consistently, it is this amount of work that made it possible for them to be so good.

i don't know your situation or if that's possible for you right now, but if it is, don't you think it's worth it to try and put in a similar amount of work for at least a few months and see if it gets you anywhere? Don't you think you owe yourself at least that much? You will never know if it will work out unless you keep trying.

I can't tell you what to do or not, but I hope you get treated for this depression and find value in your art and yourself. Best of luck dude.

How do you guys go about identifying the horizon line in references where the object is organic? I'm having a lot of trouble finding it in this picture.

>>1912298
its difficult for me to allocate that level of time, but I have nothing but time. I'm finding it to be a new place to escape to, but for now I'm taking baby steps. otherwise I start thinking critically and shut down. Once I understand everything in this loomis book and can do more than copy examples I'm certain I'll have the freedom to draw for more than an hour or two
>>1912288
thanks

but like i've said before, I want to do cartooning, digital painting, animating. eventually I may work up to calling a doctor, but for now art is my medicine.

>>1912300

>>1912325
Thanks, man. Real helpful stuff.

Hey guys, someone once linked to a site where the different kinds of pencil grips where explained in detail, like violin, bow, that you should more engage the arm instead of the wrist etc. Thought I had it saved but nope, can anyone link me again?

Googling for grips/holding mostly leads to violin tips and getting kids to hold a pen.

>>1911713
I dont have time to sit down and Study, my Job is takes me getting up at 4AM and getting home at 5PM, then theres an hour of dinner and dishes, i have 4 hours I can give to myself and Girlfriend, and I choose to do 2 hours of Drawing because I find it fun and brighten ups my day of Labor getting me to think I can actually do something that could mean something with my life and make people happy
Im sorry Im not the brightest person. I dont understand Proko since he doesn't Explain his work well enough
I plan to go Rent a Book from a Library once I get time to go get a card made once I eventually get a day to myself, so Can at least use my 2 hour ride home to use
But all I can say right now, is Im Sorry, I cant find time in my day to read the Sticky

>>1912363

I'm so glad God gave me the gift of time for being a neet. I could be a normal guy like this anon.

>>1912365
everybody has their hell to endure.

its just whether you have the resources to endure it or whether it consumes you.

>>1912365
My time isnt even the worst part of this job
Its the Bogans I work with
All day I hear "DIDJA SEE TEH GAYME LAST NITE" or "Bazza got so smashed at the pokies yesturdee"
Fucking cunts make me want to chainsaw my head off
That and Im sun burnt most of the time working outside

>>1912363
>>1912367
Get a better job anon, from your post you seem like an aussie. I work for a mining company in IT and do shift work. Gives me night shifts to work on drawing and plenty of money and free time for the gf.
Also you can "aquire" almost all the books in the sticky from tpb.

>>1912375
Im really trying, but work needed is kinda dry this time of the year
I work for a small construction company I was recomended from a friend of a friend and I get 16 bucks an hour which is Aus' Min Wage, cleaning Ship Sewerage drains is not worth the work I do
How do you get into IT?

Question thread is hit bump limit so hopefully it's cool if I ask here. I should have done this at the start but how do I know where to place the vertical vanishing point? Where horizontally should it be and how do I determine just how high to put it in comparison to my horizon? I'll keep googling in the meantime.

>>1912380
forgot image

>>1912381
Is there a tool on making this perspective or did you do it yourself

>>1912382
It's just polygon tool in PS with 100 edges, star shaped, and sides indented by 99% then opacity lowered.

>>1912360
>>1912360
>>1912360
I would like to know this as well

>>1912376
Get a position on a service desk, even level 1 positions pay about 24$ an hour, then cram out a Windows Cert and CCNA in a few months and get into a tech position.

I'm on about $45 an hour with shift penalty and position.

>>1912380
with vertical vanishing point you mean an auxiliary vp for slopes and shit like that?
usually all vp are on the horizon line. there are a few exception.
an aux is somewhere above or below the horizon line. you can actually choose where it is for slopes and shit like that.

when you are dealing with sunlight shadow constructions then the shadow origin(vp) will be on the horizon also(but in a different spot than your normal vp in 2pp). above or below the shadow origin is the sun. how far below or above depends on your preferences.

so basically: for slopes: whereever you want.
for sunlight shadow constructions: above or below the shadow origin

>>1912381
is that your drawing? looks nice so far.
you have a tumblr? or at least post the finished pic in the draw thread.
i am looking forward to it

>>1912393
I mean for three point perspective. I'd like to put a windmil or some sort of structure in the back ground. Maybe it works the same as the slopes but my brain is not making sense of it at the moment.

>>1912394
Meant to reply to you as well but my brain is in sleep mode.
>is that your drawing?
yessir
>you have a tumblr?
No but I intend to finish this piece and start one up tomorrow. I'll post the piece in the draw-thread and spoiler a link once it's finished. Thanks for showing interest anon.

>>1912398
oh sorry, dont know about 3pp.
yeah everyting i said was for 2pp. probably is true for 3pp aswell but it has nothing to do with the third main vp.

>>1912363
I always thought everyone on /ic/ is a NEET

>>1909207
I read the sticky but I still don't get how that will help me draw a not shitty line, or draw a circle properly, or learn to steady my hands

>>1912441
practice, practice, practice

you don't just decide to be good. you have to do something for it.
also ever heard of muscle memory or muscle intelligence? it's the reason why pro sportsmen are better than your average person.

why do you have to spell it out for so many people? this shit is obvious as fuck.

>>1912443
I don't know, as someone who plays a lot of video games I feel even then that I can't memorise/muscle memory because I usually see myself making similar mistakes over and over when I should be learning
Like aiming in fps or learning a fighting game or playing something like dark souls over and over, I feel like my skill never improves and sometimes just get by on dumb luck

>>1912456
Practice but try and practice and commit good habits to memory. If you're making the same mistakes over and over step back and think about those mistakes then trying and work on correcting them. And get advice from a knowledgeable source.

Don't expect quick improvement at all, to git gud will take a long time.
I cannot speak for drawing specifically but my other hobby is racing cars. I go back and look at how much i sucked when i first started 3 years ago compared to now. Most importantly have fun and don't put pressure on yourself, as soon as it become a chore, it sucks.

>>1912495
Further to what i just said, i agree with you on the sticky. It needs something before the first section of here is how you put pencil to paper and some very basic techniques.
As stupid this sounds i work in IT, if had not gone out of my way to doodle on post it notes i would not of touched a pencil or pen in about 4 years.

Any advice? I was trying to turn her body as if she were walking and was about to start changing her direction (not dramatically).

>>1911230
Because you clearly need advice.
GodDAMN, why can't I be that good already?

The left eye (from her view) on the girl with the long hair looks off (maybe too small).

>protip: stop being better than me

This probably gets asked a lot, but where do I go/what do I read if I want to draw better hands?

Here are the hands I draw now. It's shit.

>>1912534
You've got a pretty good start.
Loomis has an entire section in "Figure Drawing For All It's Worth" on hands.

Hey guys,
after a long period of traditional drawing I find it super akward to draw on the wacom because I can't use the overhand grip.
http://www.proko.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/drawing-overhand-grip.jpg
Any tip to draw from the shoulder, I really miss that on the wacom.
I am going to try out this way of holding a wacom pen, not sure if it's the right way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C3lApsNmdwM

>>1912363
So you're telling us that you don't even have 15 minutes for yourself?
Oh wait you probably do how about you use that little bit of time to fucking draw something that's not weeaboo shit, now take your excuses wrap them up and place them carefully in your arse

>>1912534
Loomis

Seriously

He has a whole book on it and heads as well

>>1912363
All I see are excuses. If you really wanted to you would have done it already.

>>1912762
nvm, found a grip, chinese calligraphy grip works best.

What I'm I doing wrong ? I been drawing for a year now and I'm still ass

Here a drawing from a photograph

Its pretty nice but the one before shows lack of both construction and gesture. The face is symbol drawn too. PS: dot use hard edges in a value drawing

>me one year ago

>>1912510
Focus more on the movement of the pose and not on the pose itself, it's too static. Try tracing a line for the main movement (the body turning, as you said) and then work on it. You need to exercise anatomy a lot, the only way is exercising a lot more.
>>1912519
Nice pose, nice trait, still need some anatomical adjustments.
>>1912849
That's some nice shading and hands structure.

>>1912848
Read the sticky.

>>1911571
Anime drawings aren't usually flat. I don't mean to insult you, but this perception comes from mediocre artists using anime as an entry tool and churning out tons of crap. I really do like the drawing though, I'm working on drawing more appealing expressions now and really like yours.

How's this?

I'm an overwhelmed beginner. Don't know where to start, but I figure humans is a good place. Even then, there's a lot of shit to get done. Would it make sense to start with particular parts of the body, and only move on when I get something decent for my level? Like split it into hands, arms, hips, thighs, head, etc., or is there a reason I should focus on everything simultaneously?

I would prefer to do things one at a time for my own peace of mind, but if there's a case to be made for learning it all together, I may as well hear it now.

I tried drawing the Picasso dude in the sticky. How'd I do?

>>1913079
what's with the chingchong shit

Most beginner tutorials start with taking an art class. That, however, is not an option for me. I will never be able to take any art classes. Does that mean I am fucked?

I can hear the responses already; "No", they'll say. "You don't need classes to be good." However, this doesn't explain why people simply don't take classes and save money, and still become as good as if they did take classes.

So am I fucked?

>>1913206
no just draw

>>1913208
Are you implying that art classes really are a waste of money and no one needs them?

>>1913209
just 420 draw it bruh

>>1913209
Wow, you got that massive implication from those 3 words? Interesting, tell me more.


Do you think paying big money will encourage you to do something as simple as picking up a pencil and starting to draw? If you do, I can guarantee you you'll fail art classes anyway.

You only need one thing to get good at drawing: DRAWING.

All the rest is frosting and shouldn't even be worried about until you are actually DRAWING. Want art classes? Fine! But what's the point of paying to get yourself to draw? I think you're not really ready to start drawing in the first place then, since all you need to start drawing is to START DOING IT.

Pick up a pencil, grab some paper, look for something that looks interesting enough to draw, DRAW IT.

Can't do that yet? Don't bother wasting money on classes, they're not going to help shit at this time, trust me on that one ;)

>>1913212
That doesn't answer me question on whether or not one needs to take art classes to get good and why/why not.

>>1913218
Also straying away from the question.

I don't ask if I need art classes to get motivated. I ask what difference they make. And if they make no difference(As has been suggested) then why does anyone take them at all when they can get just as good for free?

>>1913220
Some people like to have peers, feedback and the comfort of knowing that what they're being taught is coming from a formal and reputable source.

>>1913227
So then you don't pay for the class, you pay to draw with others?

>>1913232
Ideally you pay for the instruction and mentorship.

>>1913233
Okay. And can you get just as good without those things?

>>1913236
That is entirely up to you and how hard you're willing to work.

>>1913240
It's a yes or no question.

>>1913236
Dude, are you mentally challenged?

You pay for classes because they will help you with stuff you would otherwise have to find out on your own

they help you in that you have a surrounding that is hopefully motivating for you

they help in that you have people around you that can answer questions and help you
but since art classes these days are shit, it is arguable that indeed, you do not need them anymore and with some social skills and the internet, you can become just as good without ever going to a single real class
but in the end it IS up to you and it all boils down to motivation

so you can get offended by the fact I point to motivation being an issue when you think it's not

it most likely is, since if you were drawing on a regular basis and were already on the road, you wouldn't put so much emphasis on the how, since you'd already be experiencing that there is only one way; by doing

all the rest will follow, if it's supposed to, at least ;)

>>1913241
no it's not and there is no yes or no answer either

you really are mentally challenged it seems, ffs

YOU CAN GET GOOD WITH JUST A BURNE HOGARTH BOOK, BUT YOU'LL NEED TO WORK INSTEAD OF WHINE ON /IC/ ABOUT STUPID QUESTIONS THAT CANT BE ANSWERED TO YOUR COMPLETE SATISFACTION

>>1913244
Looks like you're doing a lot more whining than I am, sweat heart.

>>1913245
Hmm I love the smell of butthurt

call me sweetheart some more while I tell you you're a piece of shit that needs to stop asking questions and pick up a fucking pencil if he ever wants to find out if he has it or not


go on newfriend

>>1913241
No it's not. You're wasting your time looking for any sort of absolution.

>>1913241
You can't be serious?
Are you of the new stupid and entitled generation that thinks just going to school means you should get a passing grade.

>>1913204
I forgot to crop it, sorry. Was working on some other stuff when doing it. I was hoping to get some input on the drawing, though.

>>1913171
Anyone?

>>1913265
Learn to work general to specific, big to small. Start with gesture and learn the proportions before you start getting more granular.

>>1913267
Appreciate you taking the time to respond, but that's just advice, not a reason. Everything is new to me, so I'll have just as much trouble learning gesture as I would learning to draw hands, I think. Is there actually advantage in starting gesture/proportions first, or is it just how it's generally done? Seems to me it'd be easier to get those down once I know a little about the component parts as it is.

>>1913271
You're over thinking it. The unfortunate thing is that there's no absolute best way to learn to draw the figure, what you need to do is experiment and draw a lot to see what works best for you.

>>1913271
Generally, learning gesture first helped me out with my hand movement, my flow and understanding the feeling of the body, which you will need when you're learning, later. Everything starts with a gesture, and the more you do them, the more "shortcuts" you come up with to quickly being able to draw these parts of the body.

If you can't throw a bunch of non-sequitur lines into something that looks moderately human and has feeling behind it, you'll have no basis to construct anything upon. Learn gestures; do a TON of them, and then start learning the anatomy that goes on the figure. When you start into anatomy, go back and redo some of your gestures (since you have a shit-ton), and put the anatomy onto that pose.

You have to feel the form before you break it down. It's just like with learning almost anything. You're asked what you think the answer is (equates to: what do you think the form looks like?), and then you're given the answers.

>>1913272
I get that I need to experiment (IE, draw loads regardless of what I do). Really, I'm just asking because I'm so lost. I've read a fair bit about how to learn this skill, and I can't see the forest for the trees. It feels like if I just focused on, say, legs, until I can draw a decent leg, or whatever, then at least it's limiting it.

>>1913275
So if I start with gesture, I'm supposed to just draw thousands of vaguely human looking poses, despite the fact they are going to look shit as a beginner? I just set up one of those 30s/60s/whatever pose things, and draw? How do I know when to 'move on'? Obviously art is never 'done', so that question is kinda shit, but without some kind of an answer, I can't see a finish line, which I kinda need even if it's an illusion.

>>1913281

Yes, you are supposed to draw tons of vaguely human looking poses, and yes, they are going to look like shit, and the more that you do them, the better they'll look.

And, you know what? You'll probably get better faster if you actually put forth the effort of doing it. It's like whining about not being able to understand math but you haven't actually studied any math.

The one-minute timed gesture sessions are really great exercises; do those until you feel comfortable with gestures.

The finish line is whatever you want it to be. For figure drawing, the finish line is being able to accurately portray the human figure in detail, and that's what you'll get to if you actually start studying and actually start drawing; all of the resources are available to you.

Your personal finish line is whatever you want it to be. I know people who have learned half of what Loomis teaches and started deviating and created their own personalized anime style and they were fine with it; if you're okay with where you get to, then you've reached the promised land. Congratulations.

But, you know what? You won't ever get there by sitting here on /ic/ picking pointless things apart. Why do you care why the teacher teaches you this way? It works. Fucking learn it.

>>1909110
how am i doing? these are from life

New >>1913378

What place does a beginner have anywhere?

I've talked to many people online on many places. DA, HF, here, tumblr, iscribble. And no matter who I talk to they don't seem to believe there is any such thing as a low level cap. It's actually becoming quite difficult to talk to these faggots.

I have asked people about /b/ draw thread skill levels and been told they don't require skill. While at the same time I am unable to keep up with them because i am not good enough. Requests should take minutes if not seconds but when it takes me 15 minutes to draw things that aren't nearly as good as everyone else's I begin to notice I am not good enough for those threads.

On HF I brought up the site's skill level requirement to someone and asked them what place a noob has on the site. I was told I could participate in the forums(Whatever that means) but again and again the prospect of not being aloud to upload art because I'm not good enough was avoided.

On tumblr and iscribble everyone seems to believe the ability to just shit out half decent cartoons and doodles is inherent in all people. I've told people that there is nothing I am good at. I have nothing I can fall back on that I can say "Well, at least I can draw THIS" and it blows there minds, like that's something that isn't possible.

On DA everyone seems to be okay with everyone posting shit art. People post garbage all day thinking it's "art" because they are unable to understand how shitty they are.

And on all these places (With the exception of 4chan, seeing as people who hide behind the veil of anonymity love to be assholes, which is actually quite refreshing) no one wants to have any positive outlook.

I can show someone a shitty drawing of mine and no one wants to admit that it's bad. "Well, your lines are good" or "It's just a unique style" and it's pretty annoying.

So what I ask is, what place does a beginner artist have online? Where can I go that doesn't have a skill level requirement?

>>1913171
I can offer you an alternative approaches which i strongly prefer over the ones on this board, they're classically derived. Alternatively i can offer you my own regime, which is relatively intense but has given me good results since i've started.

Do let me know how serious you are about becoming an artist. The methods aren't straightforward and are quite a bit more difficult. I'm about two months in so it's a good time to bridge the information, may become too convoluted for a beginner at a later date.

You must be willing to read and practice as often as possible, you'll get nowhere if you're not training almost daily.

I'd write an email tomorrow or something if you're cool making a dummy account. Let me know.

>>1913271
Supplementing my above response: Don't start on gestures as a beginner. Will this be a career path or hobby for you? How are you at math?

>>1914219
find someone you like
trace them to learn their secrets
incorporate what you learn into your own drawing

digital drawing is like voodoo. so many shortcuts to make, and trace material is easily accessible

but dont you fucking dare trace to steal. there's a place in hell reserved for them.