/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

I just started Life drawing weeks ago, I thought I was gonna be one of the best students skill-wise until I saw everyone else. I feel ya'

Life drawing was done by the artist so many times he or she doesn't think anymore, hand draw on its own. Keep working and you'll come to this.

>>1856828
:') I actually am the best in my lifedrawing class

it's more of a big fish small pond thing though, there are like no artists in my small town.

>>1856828


>>1856243
>>1856245
These are mine and all around 20 minutes. What a train wreck.

>>1856829
Common misconception.

You don't get this good if you turn your brain off.

There is no cost to mental effort if you are drawing anyway.

But go here. https://www.youtube.com/user/ronlemen1/videos

RON LEMEN IS THE SHIT

>>1856827
it's like 90% using the charcoal right.

20 minutes is quite a long time really.

i also end up overworking stuff if it's more than half an hour personally.

>>1856836
Of course I meant that you need to study, I didn't to mean to say that he drew something 1000 times and got good. I was saying that it's muscle memory at this point.

>>1856827

It's all about practice, really. >>1856829 and >>1856836 kind of hit around it.

When you're first drawing from life you're just trying to get the proportions and appropriate angles right, since it's just a bit too much to consider everything at once. When proportion starts to come naturally, and you've drawn a torso from so-and-so angle so many times, you don't have to think about it anymore - which is good, since now you're thinking about overall gesture. Then you start designing your shapes, figuring out detailed anatomy, finding ways to reinforce modelling, playing with edges, composing your figures to make pleasing abstract compositions - the list goes on forever, and you'll always be getting better. Just keep practicing and studying, your improvement will be inevitable - just be sure to focus on one aspect at a time.

>>1856841
I totally disagree, it never becomes muscle memory.

That's how you stagnate.

>>1856862
interesting point anon,

never thought about the downside to muscle memory.

>>1856827
EM Gist use specially sharpened conte pencils that let you quickly switch between fine detail, long clean lines, and large flat masses of value depending on how you hold it. With a lot of practice this type of thing can be executed very rapidly. If you watch him draw in person, he draws very slowly actually, like each mark is put down slowly, but he makes sure it is perfectly accurate so he has no extra lines on the page and nothing to correct later on and slow him down. Don't worry too much about speed, the lay-in classes at Watts often have you only go as far as a simplified line drawing.

>>1857118
Also he uses 1710 conte pencils and pro art smooth newsprint but seth cole, strathmore and canson all have smooth newsprint pads as well you just have to go hunting for them.

>>1857126
I can't seem to find the conte pencils, or if I do find something, I'm unsure if it's the correct pencil. Do you know where I could buy them?

>>1857289
They're black with a gold band on the end. http://www.deserres.ca/data/Products/Photos/FR/family/Source/CPNOIR_1_C1710-2B.jpg

Kinda hard to find depending where you live (even smooth newsprint can be hard to find). For example, my city has none as far as I know, I had to buy a bunch when I was in Toronto. You can probably buy them online though. I suggest buying a few B's and a few 2B's. B for lay-in, the 2B for rendering/value.

>>1857305
what is so special about these pencils?
(i never tried them. I use http://www.fabercastell.com/art-and-graphic/artist-products/pitt-monochrome-charcoal/CharcoalpencilPITTMONOCHROMEwaxfreehard/112993 because they are a lot cheaper.)

>>1857309
It's just a nice pencil? It's got conte in it instead of charcoal, so it a bit easier to control I guess and doesn't smudge as much. It's almost actually like digital in the way it applies and layers, and it can go pitch black without any glare, or can go very light. I dunno, I actually discovered them on my own because there was one in a set of pencils I had and I liked it. Later I found out the whole Watts school praises them and uses them exclusively. Personalyl I love using conte instead of charcoal for drawings, and the conte pencil has a lot more finess and control than a stick of conte.

But I mean there's a lot of different approaches and preferences, use what you like. In Russia they use something called "sauce", which is made from local clays and is sorta like conte/chalk and has the added bonus of being activated with water and able to be used as wet medium too. I've tried a few kinds of sauce and each is wildly different from the others, and actually I prefer the cheap stuff from China to the real expensive stuff from Russia. It's all preference. Just try shit out and see what you like, and be aware that your preferences will likely change over time too.

>>1857309
They go on newsprint like butter almost to the smoothness like
>>1857319
said. also they don't smudge, and you only need the two pencils (B or HB and 2B) to reach a full value range. Only downside is the newsprint that works best with them isn't archival.

>>1857327
>Only downside is the newsprint that works best with them isn't archival.
I don't really get the problem with that. I've thrown most of my life drawings in the garbage anyways, when you have giant stacks of pads it just takes up space. And I think it is completely arrogant to assume that your stuff done now will be worth anything later. It's also mostly used just for studies and lifedrawing which doesn't inherently have a ton of value. Plus they are more archival than people assume, most people think that newsprint disintegrates in a year or two, but if you actually go to Watts Atelier they have drawings on the walls that were done 25 years ago and are still in good condition (the paper is yellowed a bit, but that;s about it).

>>1856827

The difference between a slow and fast artist is that the fast artist does not need to guess. He knows what he's looking at, knows what his tools will do, and probably has a fine-tuned approach to figure drawing that he repeats every single time. If you want to develop speed, then you need to develop process. This is not the same as remembering anatomy, but a strategy to divide and conquer the various parts of the drawing as if you are playing a game.

>>1857329
But it's good to keep all of your drawings, you shouldn't throw your stuff in the trash so you can look back and track your progress. Plus I think it would be awesome to look a nice stack of drawings later in my life. I wouldn't see space as much of a problem, thats the least of my worries.

>>1857502
You can just take photos of stuff for that. And when you have limited space, keeping thousands of old drawings and paintings becomes an issue.

>>1857520
Im paranoid that one day my files will be corrupted or something lol. But theres always space to put stuff. I store all my stuff in a cabinet/under my bed. How come you have so little space?

>>1857523
I'm renting a room right now and it's pretty small. Between my desk, chair, bed, dresser, and shelf for all my art books, it is completely packed. I had fucking massive stacks of old life drawings from when I was going almost daily in art school, and before that I went weekly in high school for a while. It doesn't fit under my bed or in my closet or anything, I used to have a giant shelving unit/corner of the basement at my parent's place for that stuff, but they moved and so I have no space with them anymore either. Old canvases take up even more space. Anyways, you need to learn to be less attached to your art. If I lost my harddrive I would lose hundreds of digital paintings, but it's not a big deal to me, I only would be worried about the files that are for clients and in progress. It's easy to back stuff up online or on external harddrives too if you are paranoid. But in any case I don't care too much, much of that old stuff is crap and I know I can do way better now, and I know that in a few years I will do way better than I do now. I guess I'm a bit like Andrew Wyeth, he would spend days working on a pencil drawing perfecting it, then when ti was done would toss it on the floor or something and be stepping all over a ton of his artworks. He didn't care about it once it was complete.

I'm having an excessively hard time finding these Conte pencils, I've actually been recommended them before and couldn't find the correct ones then either. Can someone tell me where I can purchase them online?

>>1857565
Plz

>>1857927
It's not a huge deal if you can't find them. Try a few stores in your area, and if you live in a large city one might carry it. Otherwise just buy some conte sticks and sharpen them, it's pretty much the exact same thing, just more of a nuisance to keep sharp and it will get your hand dirty as you draw.

>>1857565
I'll spoon feed you the link. Can you not google "1710 Conte Pencil" Like what the actual fuck.

http://www.amazon.com/Conte-Pencil-1710-B-Soft-Black/dp/B0028D4LR0

>>1858082
I actually found those and just wasn't sure they were the right ones.

Thank you

>>1858177
Hm, the picture doesn't have the gold band on it that is the distinctive feature, but it seems to be the same company and code.

>>1856827
>Jesus Christ how can someone do something so well so fast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKFfSl-EBfI

>>1858182
That's what had me confused, the lack of the gold band

>>1858234
>>1858182
they dont make them with the gold band anymore

theyre good pencils

also dont waste money on newsprint pads, theyre overpriced, you can buy 500 sheet reams of 18x24 newsprint on dick blick for 14 dollars, then get one of those big art clipboards

good luck, dont forget razor blades and sanding pad to sharpen the 1710b

>>1858251
>they dont make them with the gold band anymore
Ah okay, didn't know that. I have a ton leftover when I bought them in bulk a year or two ago ago.

Also side note, I suggest buying some 2B's as well, the B is a bit too hard for my liking for a lot of shadows/rendering. I think having both B and 2B is best.

>>1858251
I saw the 500 ream at dickblick, but are they smooth or rough it doesn't say.

>>1858291
You can feel the difference. Smooth is fucking smooth. Also a lot nicer to draw on. If it was smooth they probably woulda said it, normally it is just hte regular rough kind. In my city they don't even sell the smooth kind :(

>>1858291

it's smooth and IMO are better than the newsprint pads I've used (strathmore, canson)

>>1858291
http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-all-purpose-newsprint/

> Newsprint is a school favorite for drawing with pencil, charcoal, pastels, crayons, and markers. Blick All-Purpose Newsprint has a 30 lb (49 gsm) standard weight and a smooth surface.
>standard weight and a smooth surface.
>smooth surface.

get your ream and get to drawing anon, good luck!

>>1858296
>>1858297
okay just wanted a personal opinion thanks

>>1856838
I know Ron Lemen in RL he is my inspiration....

>>1857305
>>1857565

http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-all-purpose-newsprint/

500 sheets of news print, you will likely want the 18" × 24" so its 14$~

the conte 1710... that shits retarded expensive, amazon puts it at cheapest puts it at 10$ a pencil, that you are going to fuck up sharpening for a while...
the 2b variant is 5$ a pencil, but still, shit is stupid expensive.

anyone got good alternatives to the conte?

Its this easy anon

When you're bad at something and just starting, its really easy to see all the things you need to do in order to get better. Because you're new or even average, you're doing so many noticeable things wrong. The mistake people make here is that they don't FULLY LIST every mistake theyre making and back up each listed problem with a SURE FIRE solution to make them good at the situations where those mistakes are currently existing

On the flip side When you're really good at something but not great at something, its even easier to make the jump from good to great then because you're already good at so many things, you have even less to improve on to become great than you did when you started

So whether you're just starting or you want to make that jump from good to great finding out where you need to improve is easy

I really think people are confused when they hit "the wall" and don't understand how to get better and just stay at the same level constantly

Try this technique if you're having trouble

Take your latest few drawings, open up a typing program on your computer, and just do one thing

Look at the drawing, and don't think but keep an intention of noticing anything that isn't "great"

You'll start getting "out of the blue" hunches that will start flashing into your mind the longer you stare at your drawings

Quickly write down every single thing you're noticing that isn't good

Once you have run out of ideas for finding errors, your next step is to take each indivdual error you pointed out in your drawing process, and try to break down what your approach to the process was that made your error

Then you do the sane

You look at this process that you're doing until a hunch flashes into your mind that says "OH, I was trying to shade like this before but now I see I could have done this instead" etc

And while you're doing this you keep professional level art processes around you to compare your thought process to so you're on track

>>1860465
>newsprint
I'd love to order some of that shit, but I'm German and don't know of any good vendors.

>>1860465
conte is $20 dollars for a dozen, what are you talking about

20425-2010 Box of 12 Pencils Pierre Noir B $18.66BLICK everyday sale price!

http://www.dickblick.com/products/conte-sketching-pencils/

source: I buy and use these pencils all the time

>>1860514

same here. i tried everywhere, asked everywhere. nobody aint got no fucking newsprint. i might order a stack and have it shipped once i'm wealthy from freelancing (hahaha!)

>>1857118
Does anyone have a link to something showing how the sharpened pencils look? Curious about all this.

>>1860514
it should be available, you should be able to get it from like office supplies stores, sometimes it's called "butcher's paper."

it's very common because it's literally the cheapest type of paper.

>>1856838

>Perfect cubes in Perspective

Holy shit I've been wondering about this for ages even the head ID professor couldn't give me a good answer!