/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

any help is appreciated. tell me if it looks flat.

also what am i supposed to do if i can't really figure out the 3D-form because the light is too weak or the image too LQ?
i try hard to find any features, but sometimes it just looks like a blur to me.

>>1821858
the previous thread was 15, this one is 17? why do you number them anyway?

>>1821863
The previous one was 16, he got it wrong.
I number them to keep things organized, and some anons said it helped them tracking the threads and posts they missed while they were away, so I'm keeping the chain.

>>1821858
these thumbnails are pretty deceiving haha, a lot of them look much better than they should when you can't see the chicken scratching. Let's keep this train going.

>>1821862
This is lovely anon, you're not beginner at all.
As for your question, it sounds like the image isnt really worth studying. So I'd just find another one.

Study #4
This time, let's try a face. Pick one or both and give it a try.

>Draw this for fun, try your best. If you can't get it right, don't get discouraged, note your mistakes and work on them.

I'm trying to draw a dancer from birds eye view but this isnt like any other drawing ive done proportion-wise.

could somone please give me some tips?

I think I need to start learning construction right about now. Would someone mind giving me a brief overview of the different styles or schools of constructive drawing and which books are recommended? The sticky isn't helping much and the word "construction" sabotages every google search I attempt. I'd really appreciate it.

What do you make of this? Minus the retard language.

>>1821913
Took 30 min for construction. Fuck me. Anything obviously wrong?

How do you guys handle bodily fluids when it comes to cell shading?

Like, saliva and water on a body. I'm thinking leave it till the end and then just add some light white highlights at the edges and where light is being reflected?

Sorry for lewd.

>>1821940

Those look very nice. Only thing I could from a glance is softening the eyebrows a little. She has just a tinge of manliness with thick, rectangular brows like that.

It's very good, though.

>>1821946
Don't be sorry for lewd. Be sorry for the bad drawing. Body fluids are the last thing you should care about, lrn2 anatomy.

>>1821957

Aside from the line on the furthermost leg there going too deep, I don't see anything hugely wrong with the anatomy. I can't judge the arm since I don't see the rest of the picture.

That is a shitty hand, though.

>>1821956
>It's very good, though.
Hah. Wait 'til I shade it, then. Also I drew the forehead too high. Corrected the brows.

>>1821946
I would be embarrASSed to post something like this on /ic/

I've just begun with a digital tablet and I'm really struggling with it, does anyone have any tips? Or does it really just take time?

what is this horrible monstrosity that I have created? outline, paint bucket, and low power air brush.

>>1821983
Yeah, it takes a week or so of light but frequent use to get the muscle memory for it. In the mean time you can try using a little smoothing in your drawing programs to help.

>>1821983
takes time. You'll get the hang of it.

Anyone know any good method to learn the human anatomy without being bored as hell doing it?

>>1822019
Google Whack-a-Bone and Poke-a-Muscle

Some anon posted those games a few months ago and I'm really grateful for that

Beat those games and then you'll have a base to move to detailed anatomy material

>>1822019
If it's boring, you're totally learning it wrong.

>>1821862

could you please post the reference?

really good btw

>>1822031
k

>>1822030
Awesome thank you.

>>1821913

Is it close enough to start blocking?

>>1822086
shit, forgot that I flipped it in attempts to find mistakes

>>1822087
Use a larger canvas. Also it's not so close.

attempt one. first drawing of the day

Thanks to the anon who recommended the whack a bone.

Drew this shortly after.

>>1821940 here. So I put some effort into this (~3 hrs), yet it still looks flat and boring. Can someone me give an overview on what I should improve? I'm also the guy who was told to look at Sycra's color tutorials (>>1821118, >>1821243).

>>1822121
Whilst you're right about it looking flat (though I wouldn't say boring) -- your use of colour is pretty good. Once you get the vitality into your work I bet there'll be a huge leap in your output.

Keep at it anon

>>1821858
I had fun doing this, I hope the anon post another excersice soon.

>>1822128
Read the thread.

Ok, I'm a fucking newbie in this and I want to get good.


This is the best I can draw.

>>1821913

First i tried doing circles, then everything went downhill in a second. oh god do i try.

>>1822148
This is meme quality work, if you can freeze your skill at this level you can draw memes professionally and probably make a lot of money from tshirt loving faggots

attempt 2

I think it is better then the last one. thoughts?

how to shade this better, major problems plz help

>>1822230
you're doing as well as can be expected. what you'll probably just want to focus on atm is making sure all the objects are clear so it doesn't look like a mess. you do that by making sure things right next to each other are quite a lot lighter or darker comparatively.

>>1822033
not same anon

The last few chapters of Perspective Made Easy is wrecking me.

Attempted the face study

>>1821862
All the lines make her look kind of old, but I still think its great. Lovely subject too, lots of character to it.

>>1821913
I think I did pretty good, especially if you compare to my attempts with the last study (the group of photos in the OP)

>>1821858
again with this shit:

what do when the vanishing points are off the edges of the surface your paper's on? eyeball it? find a better surface?

>>1822355
here's the right pic for this question

>>1822355
A. eyeball it
B. tape extra paper on the bakc temporarily
C. Don't move the paper and stick pins where the vaninshing points are, tie some yarn or string to it, and use the yarn as a ruler. Mark end and start point, then finish the line with a real ruler.

If the table is too small and you can't eyeball it, you move.

It was certainly more frustraiting than fun

>>1822292
My go at the second one

>>1822355

Brewer method. You can draw a vertical and three lines going off in perspective. Draw a rectangle that fits in the three lines and you'll locate the point that forms the fourth line, which will establish the location of the horizon and thus the vanishing points. With this information you can create a grid.

>>1822383
Welcome to art.

>>1821913

I'm just starting out with drawing on the right side of the brain.

This is probably way too difficult for my skill level and maybe I shouldn't be doing this yet. Anyway here's one shitty attempt.
I should probably continue the right side of the brain exercises.

Somehow i managed to change an asian man into a black man.

Advice on how to fix my race issues will be greatly appreciated.

>>1822121
I dont know how much this will help but try to make the shadows around the nose more coherent for the lack of a better word, try to understand where the light comes from, i.e theres shadow under her pictured left side of her jawbone which you didnt catch, also but this is probably just me, try to make your drawings "work" with AND without having the reference at hand, what I mean by that is that nobody has would understand what the hair on her forehead is supposed to be, where it comes from and whatnot.
you could also try adding more texture to her hair.

>>1822175
dont draw lines
>>1822219
>>1822110
is closer to your skilllevel than you'd imagine, copy>try to understand>repeat

Well, I tried

>>1822478
Reminded me of Saoirse Ronan from The Host.

I like it, I like the hair.

Will drawing help me improve my visual memory? It's like, everyone else has a clear image in their head that they want to put down on the canvas but it's empty for me up there, just shadows. How do you draw from imagination when in the first place, you can't construct forms in your head? Are there specific exercises for it?

god damnit

ref pic next

>>1822512

>>1821913
About an hour work here, still feels a bit boring, I think I have no style. How to improve?

>>1822515
Don't worry about style at your level, worry about increasing your skill level.

>>1822515

You're at the very bottom of the totem pole, you aren't supposed to have style. In fact, style is something you should be making a conscious effort to avoid.

>>1822517
>>1822520
Well, you guys are right, I think.
In your opinion what should be the next step? What should I practice more?

>>1822512
What in your mind made you feel it was worth sharing

>>1822546
Nigger please, this is the beginner thread. Sharing attempts should be encouraged.

>>1822546
read the thread title, faggot.

What in your mind made you feel it was worth posting.

Hey. Now I know it's god awful. But I've never studied how to draw female faces or draw with pencil or anything like that. I'm just copying this one picture from a photo and I just want to know.

What are a few things I can do that will make this picture look not terrible?

Sorry if this is cringeworthy.

Practicing head anatomy any tips?

>>1822551
Image I was trying to copy.

If it helps.

>>1822551


There's nothing you can do to make that picture look good, start over. I'm not being mean or anything, you're here posting this looking to improve yourself and that's what matters.

I'd say the most important thing for you to do is to make construction lines. It looks like you just tried to copy the contours and just haphazardly went about it without proper regard for proportions and relationships.

So just put down a circle, oval, whatever - draw some simple lines to place the center, eyes, nose and just work your way up from there.

And practice. Lots and lots of practice.

I'm trying to get into drawing environments but I really don't know where to start? I used the scene generator and I got mountains with nests.

>>1822555
Oh. It's really that bad huh? Well thanks anyway.

I'm not gonna attempt drawing faces again until I've got a lot of training.

>>1822552
The one on the left is the right approach but you are still using symbols when you should be thinking about planes. Also try to get the jaw right before adding the features? The bottom of the chin, the mouth, and the eyes share the same vanishing point, at the very least you should make sure that they are parallel .

>>1822565
>before adding the features. *

>>1822563
>I'm not gonna attempt drawing faces again until I've got a lot of training.

Ehy not draw a lot of faces until you get it right? You can start by doing this thread's study.

>>1822548
>>1822549
thanks for the defense

>>1822546
i didnt realize how off the head was. i felt below the neck was actually pretty decent.

>>1822563

>I'm not gonna attempt drawing faces again until I've got a lot of training.

Woah, woah, this is literally the opposite of what you need to do man. First look up some classical ways of drawing the face ( check the sticky or google ) so you've got a good idea on how to start constructon and then just draw some faces from reference. I'd suggest picking a more neutral camera angle though, your original ref is actually pretty tricky. Just do some frontal, side and three-quarter views.

And don't be sad you fucker, it's only bad if you give up

I gave up on this after re-doing the face a million times.
How do I even draw a face with just lines? If I leave everything most of the construction lines, it looks weird and wonky. If I erase them, it looks empty.
Any help would be very much welcome.

>>1822573
if you're looking for likeness then measure angles
if you're looking for a way to enhance your 3d perception of forms from imagination then construct and use the ref only as a guide but you sacrifice likeness
you can of course combine them both as many artist does

>>1822579
ohshit, I deleted it to do some more useless fixing. Sorry.
Thanks for the tips.

An attempt.>>1822553

>>1822383
I actually really like your values here on the woman study, just try looking for all the soft edges now.

I would say your biggest problem is the drawing though. Your proportions are a bit off. The left eye is placed too high and far away from the bridge of the nose, making her nose appear longer than it is.

>>1822552

Try implementing these rhythms into the heads you draw. And please use reference when learning the head.

Also study skulls and make sure you know basic perspective.

Construction + Rhythms + Skull knowledge + Perspective = Decent head

>>1821913
This was fun, thanks. For some reason i couldn't get this song out of my head the whole time. Who is that girl?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM

>tfw you're feeling you're progressing yet it looks like shit
oh well, at least I'm practising.

>>1822659
I like it, it's cute and that's hard to capture with realistic drawings of foxes/dogs/etc.
You say it looks shit, and while I can see the flaws, remember that this looks impressive to normalfags. Stick with it!

So I'm a complete beginner. I started maybe a week ago.

I've been sketching some things in my sketchbook every day. Read some Loomis. Watched some videos.
But I still feel a little lost.

In a typical art school, what is the curriculum like?
I feel like I should be following some kind of linear path to becoming an artist like "first learn this, now learn that, then put those two together and you get this"... but I guess its not like that?

For the most part I have so much information that I am overwhelmed. Can someone just tell me what I'm supposed to do first?

>>1822714
I'm not so much in an Art School, but I'm studying Animation.
The start of the course went over the basics of drawing and concept though, the sticky does a great job of covering it. Constructing things before refining them, etc.

>>1822714
Find pdfs of Bert dodson how to draw or of drawing of the right side of the brain. Finish one or them or both before embarking on loomis.

>>1822686
Yeah I can see the flaws clearly too, but some of them I just don't know how to fix and some I noticed too late.
And thanks!

>>1821858
Posting drawing from a photo from old thread.
Worked mostly on dem proportions and gesture.

I don't want to give up

>>1822611
Why.

Eyes are hard.

>>1822739
her shoulders are slightly broader than youve drawn them
look at the shape between her arm and torso
& get them boobs in

>>1822756
i'm going to assume colors are hard for you, bro

>>1822766

Yup.

>>1822766
Why the sass? They did a good job.

>>1822766
stop posting
>>1822756
nice, best so far.

I'm sorry, I don't know.

Thought it could've been a good exercise, but I just ended up sobbing and wiping tears.

I'll stick to learning fundamentals then.

>>1822776
Post it! You're anonymous, who cares. It's a beginner's thread after all.

posted this on the drawthread but I guess I must have posted it in the wrong thread since someone told me to come here instead

anyways
this is still just a wip and just in the intial sketching phase
This is suppose to be like a dwarf leaning over a bit sitting down with one hand on his knees and the other holding onto a chain

I'm always having problem with arms and hands so i know that is wrong right off the bat, but I'm not sure if there is anything else that I'm doing wrong. I feel like there's alot of stuff wrong with this so far
so can anybody help and show me what else am I doing wrong.

Meh.
I'm gonna have to do something with the left page.

>>1822811
at least your vilppu is showing

>>1822821
vilppu is shit

Recommended drills/exercises/explanations for drawing cylinders and boxes in different orientations? Preferably nothing analogue, I'm on a plane.

>>1822856
study perspective.

>>1822868
Been there, done that. Now I want to practice perspective.

>>1822756
Lovely.

>>1822776
Whatever you were trying to do, post it. We're all learning here, there's no need for shame. If you know you're doing something wrong and you know how to fix it, do so, don't waste time moping. If you know you're doing something wrong and don't how how to fix it, you're more than welcome to post it and receive critique.

>>1822629
How did you do the skin texture?

>>1822803
Why didn't you try to improve it on your own? It's been a while since you posted it in the other thread. Look up some refs. Even dwarfs don't have undefinded clusters of... something as limbs but fairly normal human ones. It's mostly the proportion of them which is different.

Could I ask what's a good anatomy book that's not written by Loomis?

>>1822919
Loomis is all that the internet knows about

Spent 3 mintues on each sketch. Any critique will do. I know features aren't in the right spot but the point of this was to see how well I could make a quick sketch look like the subject.

I just need a fresh pair of eyes to tell me what they think.

>>1822932

Damn, anon! You really captured the likeness but the linework is still a bit sloppy.

>>1822935

Yeah. I'm disappointed in the middle one most of all now that I've taken a step back. Features and jaw line are way out of place compared to the other 2.

>>1822932
Your version of the first face actually looks better than the original. Dat nose mang.

> the point of this was to see how well I could make a quick sketch look like the subject.
Not well. Take your time to do faces, speed painting some scribbles won't help you at all.

>>1822756
Is this still considered beginner here? Just want to know so I can classify my stuff appropriately. If not, what is beginner level and when does stuff start to be considered gud?

>>1822932
Why did you spend 3 minutes on each sketch? Is someone pointing a gun at you? Take your time and do it correctly, I don't understand why you felt the need to rush practice. Speed comes with experience, the more you draw the faster you'll get, so just focus on getting things right first.

>>1822941
That anon is past beginner level according to the sticky.

>>1822947
>>1822939

So what's the logic in doing speedy figure drawings, then?

>>1822941
depends how you did it lel, if it took 100 hours or whatever or you traced it or something then stay here, if it's 'honest' according to /ic/s criteria then move on.

how long have you been drawing?

>>1822948
You mean gesture? You do it to quickly to capture the movement of the figure, and even with gesture you need to start slow till you get the hang of things.

>>1822951
I've done plenty of exercises to learn the proportions of the face at different angles. It was a semi-blind test that involved me looking at my subject more than the paper and making corrects as I went. Hence why my lines are ass.

>>1822952
Ok, but it sure doesn't show, especially if you rush it. Not even one of these faces resembles your reference. Try doing it without a time limit.

>>1822947

http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/face-expression-practice/

This website has a timing mode. Are you saying not to use it?

>>1822949
I'm not the guy who painted that. I just asked since I consider it to be 'good' (however you want to define that vague term).

>>1822963
well it's about how good a student you are not how good a painting you did looks. if you're still newbing it up, not knowing thew principals and techniques but you managed to spend a few days copying a photo you still go in the noob thread.

>>1822756
Was this done without any soft brushes? From what I've seen while lurking, you guys bash on those that use soft brushes, and that it would be better to learn to blend solid colors with the hard brush. Why is this so?

>>1822957
You can try but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end well. I tried doing it myself a while ago, the timer didn't let me relax and and concentrate on what I was doing, I just wanted to finish my sketches as soon as possible, results weren't good and I got nothing out of it. Just take it slow, once you will get the hang of things by observing and drawing some things will automatically click in your head and it will be easier doing faster sketches. Don't worry about speed now.

>>1822969
Cause if you do the soft brush as a beginner, you get this pretty much all the time.

>>1822568
I wasn't tring to let you down, i wanted to tell that you should post horrible art only when you are searching for some critique that helps you find the flaws. And that drawing is just compete shit on every aspect, you don't need someone to point it out, obviously no constructive critique could be made, in fact >>1822548 and >>1822549
just blamed my opinion but didn't lose a word about your piece.
Just get better, and people will start to consider your shit.
My english sucks balls

>>1822969
because you need to learn to ride a bike the normal way before you start doing all kindsa tricks.

that's part of the problem with newbs trying to emulate art they see instead of referring to nature. you end up knowing a bunch of tricks you can't use.

>>1821913

Tried again. Just trying to get the spacing and proportions.

>>1822948
I don't think I'm quite in the position to say (so someone correct me if I'm wrong), but I would assume speed painting would be practiced after being able to do it slowly.

That is, get good at drawing slowly, then get good at drawing quickly.

>>1821913
is the brush big enough?

>>1823066

>>1823077
Construction and stuff is messed up, but damn you got something going.
>potential hiding in a clusterfuck
Keep going, anon.

Anyone wake up some days, start drawing, and feel like they've forgotten everything they've learnt?

I wish I wasn't so retarded.

>>1823100
good one

I can't get myself to draw. If I do try, I get very frustrated and stop. Then I look at things other people make, get jealous, frustrated, and angry at myself, and continue to be too angry to do anything.

Help

>>1823119
Having emotions with your drawing is a good thing, but having strong emotions can complicate things. Everyone sucks at one point, but being suck is the first step of not being suck.

Well my point is everyone has their ups and downs, so you better grab a pencil and get gud.

>>1823112

Get some prescribed drugs.
>>1823119
you too

>>1823109
ok. it this smooth enough?

>>1823109
ok. is this smooth enough?

>>1823119
sometimes /ic/ can get into your head with the retarded shit they say, like "studying smart" or "studying hard". these phrases kind of give off weird impressions at times.

you just need to learn how to pace yourself.
don't go all out when you are starting your session. your energy levels should be the lowest at that point, and you should slowly warm yourself up from that point on, until you are in full-concentrated study/drawing mode.
basically, take it fucking easy in the beginning.
it's gonna be shit, don't even mind it. if you have ever made anything good in your life, you probably will be able to get there again if you just concentrate long enough.

have you ever seen a runner who trains by running as hard as he can and then cry about it afterwards because it wasn't fast enough?
no?
then learn to pace yourself.

>>1823140
The mouth is a little off.

>>1823147
yeah i noticed as soon as i posted, thanks. how is it now?

>>1823149
Fine.

>>1823149
You ruined it.

>>1823157
ah shit, should've used texture brushes

>>1823149
>>1823151
it doesn't look fine at all. what is wrong with you. it looks like an entirely different person.
somehow it looks like a midget

>>1823162
>midget
don't you mean a younger person?

http://pastebin.com/nPpyH7GE

I'm writing myself a guide to remind myself the fundamentals of drawing. Would some anons mind giving it a read?

>>1823119
>Then I look at things other people make

Stop caring. You have a bad attitude about drawing and it's only going to keep you from achieving anything.

Watch this for some inspiration. It's hilarious to boot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7WHuvdsjI

>>1823166
>133 views

What the fuck.

>>1823171
Not unusual. I get 200 or so downloads whenever I post mediafire links here. Lots of lurkers here.

>>1823176
I haven't received a rain of people calling me a retard for what I posted so that's good at least.

>>1823176
>>1823171
that's a lot more people seeing my work than forums or dA combined. maybe i'd better get a trip?

>>1823182
I think people are just hungry for that one piece of information which solves all drawing issues overnight.

I know I am.

>>1823149
you did that thing that people do where you haven't taken account of the head being tilted in the reference so you've ended up with a completely different face and a broken nose.

>>1823194
i don't see how mine isn't tilted, maybe i'll see all problems tomorrow with fresh eyes. i had that happen before. though as defensive as it may sound, i didn't like the face in the reference, so the likeness wasn't really the point of study for me.

Practising my pinch and pull

>>1822843
no vilppu is not shit, has helped me a lot.

I really don't like working in greyscale, everything just comes out so monotonous

>>1822900
duplicate layer, add noise, lower opacity. Course i later altered the merged layer, but thats the basic gist of it.

>>1822982
You are unnecessarily harsh.

>>1823201
pfft. i hate how people are afraid of being accused of being defensive so they can't ask further questions.

but anyway, some of the features of yours are tilted some not so much.

like the eyes are very much so, but the the jaw-line, and other parts aren't.

one way of noticing the differences between a study and the ref is if you do a gif like this, the illusion of animation makes it morph or move and makes differences more clear.

like in this it looks like she's nodding her head (or moving her body) sort of likes she's rockin' out, so the angle is different. and lots of other little things.

you can do the same thing while you're drawing by looking quickly between your subject and your picture. reputably sargent did this.

>>1823235
if you stare at that for a couple of seconds the real girl starts to seem like the monsterous one

>>1821913

I gave it the old beginner try. Left eye is way off. I tend to do this a lot I've noticed.

>>1823252
have you read any loomis

>>1823202
28
started about 6 years (maybe more) with many longs breaks and not serious. i stopped drawing for a year once, so if you combine all my breaks, maybe 3-4 years.
i got inspired by looking at hyung tae kim sketches. making art looked like a lot of fun, if only i was that good...
my most recent study: >>1823149
i started to post on http://forums.permanoobs.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1028 my signature has links to my dA and tumblr that has older work.
i'm a virgin and go to college to become a nurse after failing as a graphic designer.

>>1823253
T-thanks.

Don't really know what to say about this. Wanted to make the pose more flowy/dynamic and give he potential to tell a story in the end. However I started this just to study value. Could this works out or did I fuck up already?

Just found this the other day, 21 Drawing Challenge

http://www.lynda.com/Design-Illustration-tutorials/21-Day-Drawing-Challenge/164144-2.html

I guess it's motivation to draw every day, I guess repeat and improve every 21 days too

updated attempt

I know it's the model from last thread but felt inspirational to the photography.

>>1823306
you need to work on cosntruction and proportion a bit

the lower half of her body is considerably smaller in proportion to the top half

Keep working though, you'll get better

>>1823279
plz respond

Is there a way to make it look intersting composition wise? I'm totally out of ideas. Also, is the anatomy right?

>>1823313
>>1823279
Her right arm is a little off, I know you're trying to show the arm really stretching forward but it doesn't work, bring it back slightly.

The thighs might need to be a little longer as well, but I'm not expert.

>>1823307
probably distortion

>>1823279
I feel like the arm that's sticking out doesn't go with the gesture of the rest of the body. Maybe raise it to go with the flow of the spine?

>>1823306
I tried to save it even though I probably didn't have to go thar far...

>>1823325
so was it distortion or were you just off, it's wayyy more important to work out why you mad the error than it is to fix it

>>1823324
I'll try it. Something like the raised arm an the index finger thing Michelangelo did. Mocking old masters, could be fun.

So, Im on ch.4 of KTD, and Im wondering just where the hell you guys are getting your references? I mean, I guess I could take pictures of my backward during the morning, day, and night, but is there any references I can find online? How about the cast shadows projects, does someone have some magic gallery torrent that contains a shit ton of cast shadows. Please, just tell me how the fuck and where you guys got your references for this shit.

>>1823100
>>1823100
>>1823100

I've recently enrolled in an astronomy class, and it's got me interested in drawing outer space. I've tried looking around, but I'm having a difficult time finding any good tutorials.

Does anyone here know of any useful tutorials for drawing outer space, or even any good books that have a lot of different sketches of planets and things so that I can get an idea of how to draw them? I'm more interested in drawing traditionally rather than digitally.

>>1823344
I looked out my window

>>1822465
turn down for what

>>1822611
ayyyyyy lamo

>>1823249
>real girl starts to seem like the monsterous one
lel hell no. that does sometimes happen but in this case yours is undeniably the monstrous one.

>>1821913
I worked on this for way too long... why are faces so hard. I might try the other one tomorrow. Feedback is most welcome.

>>1823117

>Paintover

for what purpose?

>>1823201
>i didn't like the face in the reference, so the likeness wasn't really the point of study for me
>I got it wrong because I didn't try getting it right!
Can we stop getting excuses like that? It's fucking shameful. Look at OPs picture and all the attempts in this thread, some people definitely got some things wrong but the best part about the whole situation is that THEY TRIED. It's GOOD if you're wrong, you're a beginner, you're learning and you should accept critique. You do want to get better, right?

>>1821913

>>1823440
> beginner thread

Get that shit out of here

(It's fuckin amazing)

>>1823440

What are you doing here? you're done.

>>1823440

Jebus mate good job. If I may ask, how long have you been drawing for? I feel like I've been making bad mileage

>>1823440
Thats good, your perspectives a bit off and shadings a bit last minute looking, if you look at the negative space around the drawing after your initial sketch it lets you get closer to the real shape of it.

and dont be afraid to go a bit more harder with the angkles on the cross hatching

>>1822811
I think I did better this time. I prefer this page overall, but I'm still not satisfied. I can't seem to get the proportions right.
Any advice would be great.

Is there any exercise to help you to enlarge your visual library - something more effective that drawing and constructing the same object again and again.

Also. When copying or using a reference, is it really better to look at the reference for some long time, and then draw/paint for some long time instead of being looking at the reference constantly?

>>1821913
At the end I realized the head was too wide, so I tried to fix that a bit with the liquifiy tool.
The eyes are also a bit too open I guess.
And something with the mouth.
Spend around 1 hour on it. Was a fun morning warming up.

>>1823510
>is it really better to look at the reference for some long time, and then draw/paint for some long time instead of being looking at the reference constantly?
Not at all, in fact you should be looking at the reference almost all the time without looking at your paper. Otherwise you'd be guessing instead of seeing.

>>1823441
>>1823443
t-thanks?! i really didn't think it was that great. this is kind of surprising.

>>1823454
>how long have you been drawing for?
depends on when i start counting.
probably 7 years of random scribbling with some dedicated practice sprinkled all over. i just recently started taking pencil drawings like this seriously though.

>>1823465
>shadings a bit last minute looking
i-i actually worked on this for up to 3 hours.
you're definitely right though, i feel afraid to push the values. i get the feeling i still can't stop thinking in lines instead of transitions. i'd like to understand values and edges better.

>if you look at the negative space around the drawing after your initial sketch it lets you get closer to the real shape of it.
unfortunately the reference had a slightly different tilt to it, and i realized it too late. this is why i had problems relying on the negative space. some things are definitely off.

>>1823407
For art's purpose

>>1823516
I was talking once you can already copy quite decent and you want to start drawing from imagination.
Because I'm struggling with this.

When you draw from imagination, do you first create an accurate image in your imagination? Because I can't, and I start sketching and I'd spend like 15 min before having an idea about what I want.

Gesture.

I don't know how long I spent on each one, couple minutes I guess. I don't really understand why there needs to be a time limit with gesture drawing

>>1823516
no. you're supposed to look back and forth all the time.
you switch all the time to check on things.

>>1823533
no need to fuss over it. most people don't imagine things that clearly. especially if you are starting out. we are not machines.
it's important to have IDEAS about what you are drawing though. sometimes you can solidify your ideas with thumbnails or preparing designs or reference.

if you are thinking of the process like projecting something from your mind to the paper, you are wrong.
it may be like that on the small scale, but in the bigger picture, i would liken it to building a sand castle on the beach: you have a general idea of what you want it to look like, and then you start building, adding, subtracting, all according to your taste and senses. it's a much more creative process.

>>1823533
I thought you were talking about "copying or using a reference".
If you're drawing from imagination only there are several ways to do it. You can start with a gesture for exemple.
There is a video of Mullins doing abstract stuff on his canvas for a few minutes to get a composition.

>>1822515
Use charcoal to give it some more contrast ( black instead of grey).
Avoid comic-style lines around things.

Tried to copy some 17th century drawing.
used a pilot gel pen. A4 size.

>>1823534
The time limit is there so you don't start making outlines, and defining things that don't need to be. Gesture is flow and proportion. It doesn't care about anatomy. You do them fast so you don't get stuck, you develop speed and line confidence, and a solid flow and proportional figure.

>>1823568
if you are going to copy rembrandt at least make it a dry point etching.
it's not too different from normal drawing.

>>1823571
why?

>>1823572
it's fun and will look better and closer to the original.
also you can make as many copies of it as you want because it's a printing technique.

also, i am pointing out the obvious here, rembrandt did a ton of etchings.

>>1823534
Limit yourself to a minute each next time and instead of thinking about contour and form think about balance and force. Gesture isn't figure drawing, it's motion and rhythm drawing.

>>1823578
No, a time limit is a bad idea when you're starting out. Let him figure out what gesture means first. Hell, it's even hard for me to do a 1 minute gesture sometimes, and I've done plenty of them.

>>1823576
might actually be a good idea.
I dont have any experience with that though. I cant afford copper plates and a diamond pen; what could be a cheaper alternative?

>>1823583
you dont need coper plates. plastic plates are fine(i did it with plastic years ago). and for etching you need a needle, which you can buy at any art store. it got a wooden handle, like a pen, except instead of graphite or whatever you have a tiny metal rod that you use to draw.

i think the hardest part for you would be getting hold of a printing press. depending on where you live you can use them for free or in exchange for a bit of money. buying one probably isnt an option as printing presses are quite expensive. i think you need one for dry point etching. when you do lino cuts you are fine off without one but in dry point etching you have to really press the paper into the grooves.

you should be able to transfer your drawing to the plastic sheet without a lot of problems.

>>1823590
(cont.)

read the wiki article on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drypoint

can someone do a red line of this and the ref pic before i proceed? im fucking shit at proportions. no need to do the forehead lines.

>>1823603
and the ref

>>1823603
1. http://www.tutorial9.net/tutorials/photoshop-tutorials/tip-use-the-grid-in-photoshop/
2. draw some gridlines on your paper.

>>1823605
will try that out. thanks

Today's env study, trying to get a sense of aerial perspective? Also lighting, I guess.

nigga lips, that left nostril, trying to shade and put in value without studying it first
;_;
>1823149
I like it, even though proportions feel a bit off.
>1823440
That doesn't look so beginner-y

>>1823603
>>1823604
>>1823605
First of all, don't try to draw with grids, as it won't properly teach you how to measure proportions, focus on the whole, capture gesture, etc, but instead teach you to just copy small arbitrary abstract shapes until you have something that resembles the reference. There are much better ways to measure and check your proportions without hindering your learning process. Look up things like sight measuring, and look into the Bargue and Gerome Drawing Course. In short, you want any measurements of angles and proportions you make to relate to the drawing itself, and not some arbitrary grid.

More on grids here:
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/blog/on-cheating-rulers-grids-and-tracing

Second of all, that's a terrible reference for a portrait (lens distortion, lighting, and even the expression will give you problems). Even a proficient artist wouldn't be able to make that look appealing as a drawing or painting without changing it substantially. Try to find photo references without lens distortion, with a single, clear directional light source, and avoid funny expressions (especially teeth - they're very difficult to translate well in a drawing or painting, so just stay away from them for now).

Pic related for lens distortion.

>>1823737
You have to put >> to quote a post.

>>1823752
Yeah, I fucked that up

>>1823753
Also you can just click on someone's post number to reply to them.
In case you didn't know. I.. Guess.

I'm not that new, It's just I was using the reply section at the top of the page and not the pop-up.

>>1822110
Too much jaw. The small jaw is one of that ref's defining features.

>>1822383
>It was extremely frustrating
>for you

>>1823603
>>1823604
Over 9000 hours in MS paint.

>>1823770
Wow well that was nice.

>>1822811
Updated

So I'm doing Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain now and it asks me to make a profile portrait of a person.
Now obviously since I'm on 4chan I'm a social retard so it's completely out of the question to ask someone to sit still for me for an hour while I draw them.
Do I get the same effect from just taking a random photograph and doing the exercise, or am I missing something out?

>>1823750
I disagree. for a beginner it is just fine to use a grid. The outcome will be better and that motivates a lot more than drawing crappy shit until you give up (what most ppl experience as a child). Studying a image with a grid teaches you to look carefully and lets you see things that your brain usually ignores or distorts. After a while a student can draw with less and less gridlines. A pro often imagines a few gridlines (not always consciously).

>>1823786
find a mirror and do autoportrait

>>1823770
this is fan fucking tastic anon. its more than i asked for. thanks

>>1823789
>>1823750
ill look into that too. i chose that picture because i thought it would be pretty challenging, but apparently i cant chose decent pics either. oh well ill still finish and see how it turns out

So is this shit working out?

>>1821913
How do I do anything even?

>>1821913
I spent way too much time on this. And it's not even good.

OP, can you include this in the next thread, please? As a PSA.
http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/ctexercise.htm

>>1824054
Fucking hell. This hurts.

>>1824054
seconded

>>1823352
Not posted on /ic/ before, so here we go. I have been drawing for maybe a month now, but I don't have a very good schedule. Critique is super welcome, I did this for a guy I play Eve Online with, its his character.

>>1821913
it's time to get depressed, trying this.

>>1824219
I think I'll take a break for a little,
where the fuck is my bottle of rum?

>>1824261
Try to get the background color and value right first. It's much darker. Squint your eyes, it helps a ton.

>>1821913
Oh god, /ic/. Im so bad at this. Values are off amoug other things, doesn't look so much like him at all.

Well, I guess at least I learn a couple of things. But I got tired of working on this so much.

>>1821913

>>1821858
did some sketches without lifting the pencil, is there anything else these exercises are good for other than help with chicken scratch and more accurate lines?

>>1823119
>Then I look at things other people make, get jealous

Art isn't a competition. The only person you're racing against is yourself. Why would you bother to measure yourself against other artists? You don't know anything about them and they're not really relevant to you.

Even if these people are more naturally talented than you or pick things up faster than you, where is your passion as an artist? Is your goal to be seen as skilled and talented because you got good at it quickly or is your passion to create things? Because if it's the latter, you should be motivated to be better at it.

How good other people are at expressing themselves through art is irrelevant to your end goal of accurately portraying your own passions. Admire another artists work, but never be jealous. At least that's how I see it.

>>1824501
>two dudes running a train on some dumb broad

nice taste

>>1824020
Any way to fix this? Or just any general advice would be welcome.

>>1824616
this is just an outline
go and study loomis, yes I know it starts as cartoons suck it up you faggot

>>1824623
>tfw I studied Loomis
>tfw I used construction
>tfw back to Loomis

>>1824633
Try Vilppu this time, some mix-up wouldn't hurt.

>>1824633
Don't listen to that faggot, If you already studied loomis then move on. Take what you learned from his books and study the skull in different angles, the asaro head in different angles, and try looking up the reilly abstraction method for the head.

But the most important thing is to do tons and tons of studies, as well as stuff from imagination if thats what you're into.

loomis is great for beginners but overrated as fuck here.

>>1824645
>loomis is great for beginners but overrated as fuck here.
I agree with this

What most people don't understand is that fun with a pencil is just supposed to be your introduction to construction, proportions and other basic stuff

If you feel you already absorbed all the simple stuff he tries to teach through the book you can move to other material

Loomis is like training wheels

>>1822087
Good. Her skull is larger though. Don't forget her cranium.

>>1824642
>>1824645
>>1824647
Thanks a lot, will do.

>>1821913
first time tackling a realistic head

I noticed I fucked up the size of her skull and I also feel like I made her eyes too fucking big

>>1824669
Welp, trace the actual eyeball shape inside the skull.

>>1823770
>>1823750
>>1823789
>>1823605
>>1823604
>>1823603
well here's what i came up with. i can already tell her eyes are too big. is there anyway way to measure them against the rest of the head/face? also, i suck at hair. any tips for that? also, general feedback

sry its the old study but I haven't much time to draw and I wanted to finish it.
plz tell me what you think, I noticed that the proportions were a bit off.

>>1824669
That's nice for a first try, you took the time to measure things and that's the way to improve.
Next time try to pay more attention to the shape of what hampton calls the keystone. It's the area between the two eyes, and what helps the most to make a resemblance. your eyes are too close and that may be why your skull is too narrow.

This was fun, head's kinda broad but the rest should do.

>>1824717
The head is too big but the body overall looks good. Legs could be longer.

>>1821913
How hard is it messed up?

>>1824565
lol what?

>>1824770
I saw it too. I realised that wasn't it but I saw it.

>>1824766
really just the lips.

the problem is, in general that you beginners are making the kinds of errors you shouldn't be making if you're learning the right way.

you should be pretty close with the proportions as you should be measuring carefully and constructing things. your errors should be in the subtle definition of form and things like that.

you're supposed to be careful and measured now so you can be free to express yourself later when you've internalized all this stuff.

so bone up on that loomis and your brague plates and what not. and make properly planned portraits. stuff should look more like diagrams than drawings.

>>1824422
Wrong thread

>>1824766
You made the matured version. If it's a straight portrait stop trying to make it look good and make it look accurate first.

>>1824798
there's no thread for photobash paintovers

Finally I'm able to study about 2 hours each day.

What is better, do 0:40 of sketching/perspective from imagination, 0:40 of gesture + 0:40 minutes of copying a reference.

Or each day focus only on one subject.

>>1824782
When drawing in pencil I usually put dots on the most important features to make sure I don't deviate from the proportions. Is that a good idea?

>>1824889
That's a good idea. But it's very important to check those points/angles/shapes all the time so you can adjust them.

This is my first real attempt drawing a portrait. If I did it again I'd do it larger for sure

>>1824912
also I haven't done any reading or any studies, what are the best beginner books for following proportion?

>>1821913

>>1822323
stop symbol drawing

About half an hour.

These are like cardio; I'm all pumped to do it at the start, but after I'm done I just hate myself.

Would it be better to do studies in grayscale to learn values first, or should you use the actual colors so you can train yourself to learn values in color?

Today I found the courage to attempt drawing something from imagination for the first time.Literally everything about it is wrong, but I feel good about it regardless.

>>1825121
Good on yah for drawing and all that, practice practice and then some more practice, also a dash of anatomy wouldn't hurt! I can see that you are using guidelines for the head, but not for anything else, you should probably remedy that.

>>1825097
Did you draw this with a mouse or something?

>>1825128
I wish I had that excuse.

Found this in the body reference thread, my first attempt at drawing a body/not fucking up anatomy. Obviously the right hand needs some work but I think I did okay.

SOme gestures, I'de like to know if im on the right track with these. I usualy set the timer to about 5 mins since im kinda slow at 'em.

>>1825205
you got no highlights, if that's newsprint you should go back in with a white pencil.

>>1825210
sort of, like they're fine mainly. they're very gestural and all but really there should be lines inside the figures. like a gesture is a 3d thing, and you should be wrapping in up. by using mainly contours like you have you're reducing it to a 2d shape.

>>1825245
wrapping it up*

i love this face

>>1825097
Take longer anon, to get those basic shapes in I usually take about an hour at the moment, constantly redrawing lines to get it right. You then speed up over time I thimk

>>1821946
slightly darken the fluid, and if it is in the right position make it shine.

dunk your arms in water and look at the diffrence wet has that dry does not. darkening it a bit is mostly just so you know its a wet spot and not just shiny for no reason.

also, study up on hentai, there is an artist who decides to draw every single bead of sweat, and his art is average at best without it, but is shit with it... you can learn from their mistakes and what you should incorporate.

>>1821986
you may never get use to it. i have used one for 10 years and i never really got use to it. its why im considering a monoprice monitor. something about the disconnect between im drawing over here but its showing up over there... i just cant get use to... its perfect for photo manipulation and coloring, but just straight drawing... leaves allot to be desired.

>>1822031
some people like anatomy, while others see it as a means to an end... its like if you enjoy rendering, but don't like the drawing or vice versa

>>1822186
he would need to clean it up a bit and learn to vector it, but yea, you can make money with that.

>>1822233>>1822230
id say learn some prospective, and start making hard surface lines hard. i'm assuming that that is a silencer on his left shoulder, don't be afraid to use a ruler to get those lines perfect, most artists cant draw a perfect line and even through practice never will, don't get me wrong, they will get by eyeballing most lines but when it comes to a building or other hard surfaces, they will use a ruler.

also, throw bedsheets at shit in your house and study how they fold, than come back and do folds in clothing... right now the folds just add to clutter instead of adding another layer.

>>1822725
i don't know how much this will help, but there is an old masters drawing of a kid with curly hair. the hair was simple as fuck, but got across all the detail it needed to to be hair. i would say try and draw animals with that style for a bit... someone may be able to post the picture, that simplified way of drawing the hair might help you with doing the fur in the long run, as for this drawing... the biggest problem is the fur itself, and i can see the construction. dont draw thick spots of fur... fuck this is hard to explain... id say this is leaps and bounds ahead of you, but it is likely your end goal, so take a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MhIzzekM14 and study how they got the effect they were going for.

This is my first self-portrait (im following the instructions from "new drawing on the right side of the brain")
Any feedback? Appart from the fact that i fucked up the proportions of my face.

>>1825293
the best thing you could do, drake, is loomis

>>1825293
Thanks for letting me know how my hair will look like if I leave it alone for another year

I think you should read the sticky

stay motivated and have fun learning

If I plan to draw 4 hours a day. How long should I practice what?

>>1822714
gesture, quick sketches, long sketches...

gesture is 30 seconds to 1 minute
quicksketch is 2-5 minutes, and the goal is mapping out the body to the point that even without the model present you could finish it
long sketch is mostly for studying form.

you will want to focus on gesture and form while trying to quick sketch from what i understand there is one long sketch a day/session. the construction and gesture will probably serve you best right now though.

>>1822974
no, you get that by being shit, that nothing to do with softbrush.

>>1822989
>>1822969
think of soft brushing like airbrushing, at least thats how i see it, it has its place and uses, one of the better ones being the ability to do values pretty cleanly even for beginners, and when done right or with minimal construction gets to a fairly clean image. the down side is most images always look like they were made with a blur filter, and if you see that as ok, then whatever works for you, but its easier to learn hard round and move to a different style than soft round than learning a different style.

>>1823186
dont give a fuck and draw all the time, see my quick sketching thing above, try to do that.

>>1825293
try to not draw lines but values, also, draw what you see, not what you think you should see.

>>1825293
The more i see it, the more i think how awful i'm at drawing.
>>1825295
I don't understand your slang, sir.
>>1825300
My hair is an uncontrollable mess. Don't let that missguide you.
Also, i already read the sticky.
>>1825316
Yeah, i kind of got that notion when i was half way through the portrait. Thanks.

>>1825325
take a look at your eyes, at least the one on the right in that picture, its closer to a hexagon in terms of angles, but you have it as an ellipse with points, the eyebrows are bushy as fuck from the get go, but the drawing, you have them thick and never as bushy, also the photo is to blurry to make out inner detail on the eye outside of a highlight, but in the drawing its a defined edge.

here, dont coppy what he does on the airbrush videos, but this guy should give you an idea of what you want to do
https://www.youtube.com/user/WeiWorks/videos
draw bare bones construction, than add values.

New >>1825385

>>1824677
Well anon, it's an improvement, at least in terms of proportions.

For eyes, the general rule of thumb is that there's an eye-width gap between the eyes. Bearing this in mind you can see yours are a little too close together.

The hair is pretty scratchy. If you're just sketching out a drawing rather than rendering it impeccable, hair is a good opportunity to practice line confidence and smooth strokes. Keep them long and graceful. Establishing the main areas of light and shadow are more important than drawing every last hair. Look at how Loomis blitzes out the hair in his sketches: he probably spends 20 seconds max on hair 90% of the time but it looks great because he gets the volumes correct, gets the stroke direction correct, and identifies key areas of light and dark. Try Drawing the Head and Hands for examples.

You're making the usual beginner mistakes of getting bogged down in small details at the expense of overall effect (like drawing the lines between teeth) and focusing on relative value instead of absolute value (for example you correctly observed that her shirt has creases that create areas of shade, but you didn't represent the fact that her shirt is darker than her skin). Worry about big details and overall values first before zooming into individual areas.

Anyway dude, there's no substitute for practice, so keep churning them out.

>>1824677
Here's the Loomis link. Fun With A Pencil is worth a flick through but don't get bogged down. Head and Hands might be more immediately relevant to you.

http://alexhays.com/loomis/

>>1824766
Mouth is wide and a bit high. Bretty good otherwise.

>>1824860
Only you can answer that. Which routine would you actually stick to? What's your concentration span like?

You've got to be flexible. If you get up one morning and you have a burning desire to do a photo study, but it's Gesture Day, say "fuck it" and do what you want. Just make a mental note to catch up on gestures some other time. You have to capitalise on what interests and excites you.

>>1824912
Nice
>>1824922
LOOOOOMIIIISSS

>>1825293
Spend some time laying out key points or contours before you go to town on details.

I know people go ape-shit about "don't draw lines!!!" but recognising contours and being able to recreate them is a good skill. For example, that's not the correct contour for your jaw. You also got the hair shape pretty wrong.

Learn the rule-of-thumb ratios for feature placement and at the start of a drawing note whether the subject follows those ratios, or do they have eyes that are more close-set than on average, or is a shallow jaw one of their defining features, or whatever. It'll take the guesswork out of getting a likeness.

Lastly, squint your eyes to see the overall values and use that to make your drawing look solid. Don't do what you're doing now, which is to use thick outlines and then pussy-foot around with universally light pillow-shading. Your neck is the darkest area of skin? Shade it in. The shadow either side of your nose is as dark as in your eye sockets? So represent it with the same amount of graphite. And so on.

Basically it's about observation skills.

>>1824922
I personally would start with keys to drawing
then loomis' fun with pencil

>>1825472
thanks. i knew there was something off with the shirt but couldnt quit place it. i actually have been working through loomis and just got to the page on how to proportion a mans head, which showed the eyes, go figure. hair has always been difficult for me. ill just hae to draw a bunch of half heads somedays and practice a bunch. thanks for the feedback.

>>1822560

I think you should use this like a beginning sketch and continue to work on it, adding details etc .

>>1822465
"Body Massage"

>>1825243
The lightest parts on there are the paper tone. What's your preferred kind of paper/weight for sketching like this?