/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>1751310

pic is the before and after of some student after half a year at FZD.

>People here say "work on your fundamentals" but never dare to explain how to do it.

Grinding the fundamentals is a sure fire way to burn yourself and suck the fun out of creating. The trick to quick improvement is to work smart, not hard. If you do studies all day, you'll improve a little bit everytime. However, if you make an original, finished piece where you focus heavily on APPLYING the fundamentals (instead of just studying them), that's when you start to make a lot of progress.

>>1751325

You are right. I never said I would ONLY do perspective drills without applying them to some work.

My main concern is "jumping ahead of myself" without having learned whatever I should have before.

>People here say "work on your fundamentals" but never dare to explain how to do it.
The problem is, everyone learns differently. There is no one secret method. Some people have a hard time grasping certain topics, other pick it up without delving too far in. Some people learn better by taking notes, some people learn better by just trying to do things themselves.

If you're talking about the absolute basics, at first, you're just trying to memorize rules. How the world works. The science behind things. How things work in general, fit together or what happens when a specific action occurs. Why does something turn this color when that happens? Why do hands bend this way and not that? Etc.

In other words, you're trying to find exercises that will make you understand and memorize how the world works. You should always be drawing A because of how B works. You don't draw C because hearsay is it's the best thing to do or it seems like it might possibly be what you think might possibly be correct. Everything you see around you looks a certain way for a reason.

After you understand how things work, then you have to learn how you can break those rules, because in order to give your art life, you can't try to completely replicate reality, you have to expand on your knowledge so you can farther express certain aspects of what you see.

In other words, if you're going to self-teach, you need to learn how to make personal judgment calls and see areas where your work needs improvement. I'd say start by looking at videos and books, see what kind of exercises and advice you see being recommended, what kind of exercises you see other artists doing, then think about what those exercises are trying to teach. Really think about it. Then think about what makes you, personally, memorize a rule best and modify those exercises in order to make you retain the memory of why X does Y.

As long as you're mindful of what you're learning, I don't think it will be wasteful.

>>1751310
I've got the same problem. The sticky here suffers from too much material, too low quality

Someone at FZD said this book was heavily used the first semester (but it's nowhere to be found for free)

>>1751310

i've been self teaching for 2 years, very successfully so far. you can do it op, just make sure you buy yourself time somehow.

i kid you not i was actually ballsy enough to take out a huge loan in order to live free of financial worries for 2 years. so far no regrets.

im reaching the end of my ressources, and will be looking to get hired at a studio soon. how that goes, i can't yet say but i think my folio is pretty strong.

good luck on your journey! self teaching is awesome btw.

>>1751310
Can you motivate yourself? How much have you paid into school so far because you're throwing that all away.

>>1751404
Nigga it's like 25 bucks.

>>1751407
>i kid you not i was actually ballsy enough to take out a huge loan in order to live free of financial worries for 2 years.

Holy shit that's an awesome idea. Good luck man. I don't suppose you'd like to show us your portfolio?

How much did you take out and what did you tell the bank? Was it a personal or business loan?

>>1751412
>Holy shit that's an awesome idea. Good luck man. I don't suppose you'd like to show us your portfolio?
>How much did you take out and what did you tell the bank? Was it a personal or business loan?

it's only a good idea if you are 100% convinced you can make it, have abit of a delusional amount of self confidence, and you know professionally there is nothing you would rather do. everyone you ask will tell you that it's incredibly stupid (no "real" credentials, so you have a 2 year gap in your CV if you don't make it). i took out around 25k€, at a very low interest rate. technically it's a student loan, so i am immatriculated in university, but only on paper. i never go. it's just so i could get the low interest loan. look into it, but make sure you have the possibility of immatriculating to uni without paying anything for it.

i'm located in germany btw, education is generally free or extremely affordable here.

i will post my folio here soon enough for crit and feedback, if you stick around you will no doubt see it.

>>1751417

dying to see your work now m8

>>1751417
post some sneak peek m8

The thing about bein at a school like FZD and learning fast is not because the method is magic, it's because they demand you to do a shit load of studys, and because you have deadlines and is paying to learn doin nothing more for the rest of the day, you put in the work.
The way to learn fundamentals is pretty damn obvious, do things you apply them. Perspective? Get a good tutorial on the basics and do your work, first geometrical shapes, then objects, put them in a space, do a landscape, environment, etc... Same thing goes for all others fundamentals.
Now when you get to the fundamentals of the painting part I think it gets tricky and having a real good teacher can walk miles for you... But you still can do it in the same way, doin the hard work.

>>1751417

I saw you posting about your strategy some other day around here... I was interested too, but probably wouldn't have the balls to do the same as I know I would probably burn out or procrastinate too much without a daily job.
But I'm dying to leave my actual job and do something just part time and not 9-5. The thing is I got a car almost paid and here in Brazil it's not that easy to find an easy part time job at my age(25). Also, things are expensive here and I'm almost sure a huge loan + selling my car would leave me with a 2~3 years debt afterwards... Besides the fact I would lose all my family support in anything I might need. lol

>>1751404

Op here. I have it and it is worth well over the 25$ they ask for it.

>>1751412

University is actually very affordable in my country. My first bachelors cost only about 1000$ per year, my new uni is about 1800$ per year. I don't regret doing the first because it taught me how to manage learning and has helped me land an off-the-books job with flexible hours paid well above the average in this hellhole place.

>>1751513
Buying it here from the local bookstore in Europe it would cost me 40 dollars.

>>1751560

amazon.co.uk has it.

Paperback not hardcover.

>>1751442
>>1751454
rly sorry but it would just get torned apart by some dude with an irrational hatred for me and my work and i don't have the time and patience to stay and argue/defend myself atm.

>>1751464
yeah i've posted my story in short format countless times. but believe me the pressure is very real and it will get you working. the first months i would work maybe 2-3 hours a day but then it gradually increases and by the end i was "working" 10 hours a day ... roughly ...

i will make a thread telling my story and posting my work for crits after i have reached a certain point and had a chance to present my portfolio to some companies. so i can actually share what the industries feedback was. this will be in a couple of months, give or take. if you stick around (i think you should, despite all the bullshit /ic/ was pretty much my online school) you can't miss the thread.

interestingly i also made a thread 2 years ago about me dropping out of uni and starting to self teach with the goal of becoming a pro concept artist. thread got huge and it turned out there are/were countless guys like me browsing. some dude called "VC" posted some solid advice too. it's really sad that this specific thread is now forever lost because 4chan archive went down recently, and warosu came after this thread was made.

>>1751580

has any of his advice helped you in your path?

>>1751590

you mean VC's advice? yes definitely. it was nothing very specific, just encouragement that fundamentals pay off tenfold, and that you don't have to live in LA or NY to get job or people from the industry.

>>1751580
What was his advice? paraphrase it.

>>1751636

he just did?

>>1751580

Oh... Cool. I will try to stay for as long as I can. haha
Well... Lets wait you post them.

>>1751310
Fundamentals are the shit that you work on before you actually get into a painting/drawing.
If you can do 1/2 point perspective competently then you've got half of the fundamentals covered. Keep doing whatever you're doing, just include whatever new steps you find to improve your start.

>>1752003
>If you can do 1/2 point perspective competently then you've got half of the fundamentals covered.

i don't think i can agree with that

>>1752003

Understanding how light works and how it defines color has been the biggest step forward in my art education. Try to get Sam Nielson's Advanced Lighting for a scientific approach to the subject and James Gurney's Color and Light in order to have an epiphany in every page. First Nielson, then Gurney.

>>1751560
got the one with hard cover for like 28-29€ on amazon.

>>1752007
I'm sucking down sam nielson really slowly but I'm depending on a jew and a brazillian who are leechers and probably won't seed when they hit completion

>>1754233

I downloaded the Creature design by terry whitlatch a few weeks ago and it had only 2 people seeding. almost 12 GB. Took over a week.

Then I dicovered that the 1st and 2nd dvds' videos were uploaded 4 times each, in .VOB format. Someday I'll make an optimized torrent myself.

>>1754243

if anyone wants to get this sam nielson bullshit and help me help you help us all:

http://pastebin.com/5FEnaePT

>>1754251
Come on maties! the more people are in it the faster it goes

>>1754337
Germany is awake and uploading at 490 kB/s

And I just bought Robertson's How to Draw off of amazon.
YAY ME!

>>1754339
Then why's mine so god damn terrible :<

>>1754342
No idea. Bad sun weather?

The UL does fluctuate, though.
I don't care for the DL speed because I don't think I will need the torrent's content.

>>1754344
Oh maybe you just don't have the parts I need. I only have the first video of the first lesson active so that I have at least SOMEthing usable soon lawl.

>>1754346
Which file is it?
Maybe I have it somewhere and can straight help you.

>>1754347

>>1754349
Cool!
I have all these files already, outside of this torrent.
Let me see if I can transfer them :)

>>1754351
that file finished. The audio is fucked.

>>1754352
actually it works in windows media player :0

>>1754351
starting to experience the effects of your uploading now

>germananthem.wav

>>1754369
I'll let this thing run for a while.

What are you doing later?
I am about to record a voiceover for a tutorial video (nothing art-related). After that, I will dive into my first calligraphy practice (was on art hiatus for the last three months.. ending this).
You?

Considering I'm NEET right now I'll probably either sleep or do art or do nothing

Where I live isn't a socialist paradise like Germany or anything but if I studied I could get some government money. I really don't feel like doing that though because I'd have to pay it off the student loan later which is a huge waste for an art course where I'm extremely unlikely to learn anything.

>>1754381
I think the other person from Germany did not study art at all, as the course he or she studied was a front to get the money.

Hey, other person, did I get that right?

>>1754382
>studied art at university
Is what I meant. Clarification, polite sage.

>>1754382
>>1754383

he signed up to uni but didn't go. was just to be able to get low interest student loan money.

>/ic/ was pretty much my online school

aka he's a NEET masterrace overlord

>>1754397
isn't there an IRC where cool people like that hang out? I'm starting to feel isolated, especially now that all the online art sites have decided to decay. /ic/ is like only stable because of 4chan's rigid and unchanging nature.

>>1754397
You have to work hard to get into any art program. Why do this to yourself?

>>1751417
that was the dumbest thing you could have done

congratulations on fucking your life up

>>1754251
>http://pastebin.com/5FEnaePT
Goddamnit, man. That's a lot of stuff. Haven't heard of Nielson. That better be some good stuff.

>>1754628

he seems to be aware of this lol

>>1754337
Joined. I can upload several MB/s so I should speed this up. Hope this is good content.

>>1751404
>(but it's nowhere to be found for free)
....Seriously?
2shared com/document/khh5H0Nh/How_to_Draw_-_Drawing_and_Sket.html

>>1754233
Is this any different from the ones already upload to peers?

>>1754950
I don't think schoolism is aloud on CGpeers

>>1754893
It seems pretty good from the first couple videos.

>>1755000
>aloud
lol

>>1751580
>rly sorry but it would just get torned apart by some dude with an irrational hatred for me and my work and i don't have the time and patience to stay and argue/defend myself atm.

what a cop out

>>1755007

It is literally the biggest cop out, who gives a fuck about that retard just ignore him.

>>1755007
If it's good then other people will defend it for him. If it's bad then it deserves it. Everyone wins.

>>1754243
Are you seeding that? I found the torrent but with 0 seeds, it's not moving, not even slightly. Very interested in it.

>>1755181
That actually sounds pretty interesting, I like drawing creatures.

>>1755007
Welcome to /ic/.

The 'I am a pro, but I won't post my work because [arbitrary reason]' is a classic.

>>1755187

he never claimed to be a pro. he said he was 2 years down the neet train and says it worked for him. that's all he claimed.

you are a fucking idiot. it's especially ironic that you say shit like "welcome to /ic/ where this shit happens all the time" when you didn't even read the thread.

you are the town idiot, pointing the finger calling someone else an idiot (for a made up reason)

>>1755187
>Welcome to /ic/.
>The "guy shows some work after being asked and gets lots of shit regardless of his skill level" is a classic
FTFY

>>1755515
I showed my work once, no one shitted on me.

PROTIP: SELF TEACHING WONT WORK IF YOU DON'T ASK FOR CRITIQUE

>>1755522
l2critiqueyourselffaggot

>>1755519
no one was on /ic/ at the time.

>>1755528
yeah I know, my drawing inspired them to draw.

>>1755519
>>1755528
That or it was mediocre. From my experience, only stuff that's amazing or absolute garbage gets any attention here.

>>1755515

last time i posted some shitty 10% done sketch some anon jumped in my face telling me how shit i am and how it's a complete miracle that anyone thinks i know what i'm doing.

...like u wot m8

so i can confirm that this is a real issue. not all of us have that thick skin yet. ironically some other anon came to my defense and made the guy realize how unecessarily hostile he was being. can't deny that i was emotionally touched by /ic/ that day. there's some good people posting here.

>>1754251
In case you guys haven't been here between the OP and now, go to this post.
You might find it useful, you lazy fuck.
Yes, you.

>>1755531
it was super amazing, I'm telling you I'm pro.

>>1755533
Hey faggot, I was honestly trying to help you, and you're still bitching about it?

>>1755519
they probably did and you just choose to forget.

Been self-teaching for wee bit over 2 years now.

I made a thread a while back and the feedback was very encouraging. Best case scenario from here: Full time work within 6 months. Worst case scenario would end with me applying for an arc approved atelier next year.

Just set up your plans in such a way so that no matter what happens, you win

>>1755909
Thats y u always gotta aim high, because it wont matter if you dont reacht it, you'll have progress anyway

>>1755921
Truth

>>1754251
Holy shit, downloading and seeding forever.

>>1755909

do YOU feel like posting your work?

>>1755974
Sure ok.

You can find my early stuff (2+~ years ago) on the bottom of my tumblr:
acidenema.tumblr.com

And here's where I put new experimental stuff:
http://forums.permanoobs.org/viewtopic.php?t=685
I warn you I'm lazy by nature - tried the whole fundamental study all day everyday and lasted half an hour before I was bored out of my skull.
Learning is fun, but not if it feels like a chore... Instead I've incorporated things I'm learning into pieces that I started already - Using the rules as a safety net when I fail, and then in all other cases disregarding them.

Learn by doing. I think you get a lot of "Interesting(//bad)" work this way.
But IMO utterly failing one time (and pondering why you failed, maybe even going as far as fixing old failures!) is a thousand times more beneficial than doing twenty things successfully.

>>1756080

nice work. really really nice work. i see you becoming one of those REALLY amazing guys within 4-6 years.

also i very much believe in the law of failing, over and over and over, but never in the same way... this teaches you so much. just do stupid shit. nothing bad is going to happen if you fail. that's how you learn!

>>1755840
Hey, fuck off man. Let the guy talk, faggot

>>1755840

i have a feeling i even know who you are.

>>1756086
Haha yeah. I set time off everyday to fail in new ways, sometimes I accidentally stumble into really cool ways to go about doing things. Like discovering what the brush modes do for brushes in dual brush-mode or the proof setup view trick (being able to see the grayscale while painting in full color is a really interesting way to discover new color combinations)

I dunno about becoming amazing at stuff, my only real goal is to gather enough money to take 2-8 years off to pursue personal projects. If I learn a lot along the way- well that would be preferable.

>>1756388

and who would that be?

Is anyone still seeding the Sam Nielson torrent that was linked here? Did anyone even manage to finish it yet?

>>1757504
you!

>>1755909
what were/are you doing for live? saves, parents, loans, part-time... ?

>>1759005
I am. for some reason about 10-15 guys stop seeding it.
I'll be deleting it about tomorrow or on wednesday tho

>>1759005
Wow torrent seems pretty dead now. Not even uploading 100kb/s. I still seed occasionally and will for a long time, I just don't have my program to start at boot or anything.

>>1759389
Do you want the long story? I cba to type out all those words

Anyway: I've been attending a self taught high school for the last 2 years (one year left) I only have to deliver work online and go to the exams every 6 months. So it's easy crusing in terms of responsibility. (10hrs of work pr week, max)

Government pays me 600 usd a month to do this.
To supplement that income I help out my dad with his circus

I live with my mom so only expense is food.
(I'm 19 so it makes sense to still live at home)

My family has been incredibly supportive. I wake up in gratitude every day.


Also since I got a bunch of questions from people who saw this thread on my tumblr, so I guess I'll address them here:

The thing that helped me out the most was to draw from imagination and memory at every chance I got, then making up weird practice sessions to combat the areas I was worst at. That and memory studies will take you really far.

Books that helped me out the most:
The art spirit by Robert Henri (just buy it you wont regret it ever)
And Alla Prima by richard schmidd, I heard he's done a 2nd edition which is bigger and better.


I can't say anything for figure drawing since everyone learns the figure in different ways. Just try out all the methods until you find something that clicks with you. (and of course draw from life but that goes without saying.)

That was very bloggy so here's a painting I really enjoy.

>>1759005
This took forever to dl but i'm seeding rn

I've been trying to self learn since January, due to semester though, I had to cut most of my drawing time to nill until summer started a few days ago.

I did all my work up to this point in paper, and now I'm moving to digital and I am liking it, though I still haven't been able to set up a brush that doesn't look like ass.

My lines feel like they are all the same thickness, I got a tablet with pressure and I enabled the thickness and opacity of my brush to be controlled by it, but I don't notice much difference.

I am working on 300 pixels/inch, and I use a standard US paper size as my canvas, drawing with a custom brush I made that's 5 pixels and with the opacity and pressure controls enabled, it feels like a pencil, though I wish I had a better control of my line flow.

I'm currently in Vilppu's Drawing Manual on basic figure drawing.

The Sam Nielson vids stutter for me but the rest are fine.

I've been thinking of switching into Industrial Design. How is it?

>>1761481

awesome. but not very artistic.

It is a fun subject to study, but work-wise is shit. Prepare to have your ass fucked by engineers who say that your design can't be produced and infinite revisions of the same object through a never-ending pipeline that ends up with a final product that you can't call your own.

>>1761493
That's alright, I'm turning into a hobbyist at this point. Ideally I'll get a job that is half art, half something else
>>1761499
What what up the butt?
Prostituting was my go-to choice but it looks as if this one is a real contender

>>1761551

bring lube