/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

post youre art

Have you tried looking on Polycount or other cg forums? They usually have a board dedicated for job openings.

When you do work for these companies, do they require you to do everything on separate layers?

i did some stuff for some bigger company and they wanted all characters on separate layers than the background, which i thought was retarded, given what kind of illustrations they wanted

>>1756039

considering that bigger companies pay generously usually. . .. who cares?

>>1756031
I'd rather not. I've already posted my art multiple times on /ic/ and this thread isn't about me. I don't want to derail it with my art, because hten people will start talking about that instead of the subject at hand.

>>1756032
I've tried on CA in the past, but only got poor paying offers (some as low as 10$ per painting)

>>1756039
Usually I do it all on one layer, but it depends on the purpose. I had to have the fore- mid- and backgrounds separate on my 1500$ job, but that was because they used it to animate and also to use parts of it separately elsewhere. It's a bit of a hassle to keep it separate, but as the other anon said, it's not that big a deal.

oh you didnt know ? its almost impossible to get a good paying freelance job, unless you are godtier with at least 10k followers on facebook.

>>1756056

is this really the case? i remember maciej saying you can get work at almost any skill level if you hustle a bit.

>>1756061
Nah that anon is just trolling. There is work out there for most skill levels.

Although being popular on fb is certainly going to help your case--I know a lot of ADs now look on fb, and more and more people are getting jobs through it.

applibot, magic, gameloft, ect pay around $1800 an illustration. More if you have been with them longer.

>TFW had to turn one of them down due to crushing depression

>>1756063

i know dat feel (of crushing depression, not of turning down an 1800 gig)

*hugs*

>>1756063
Do they pay that much? I'm surprised to hear that, it goes against what others have told me. Then again, there is probably a range that they pay, and the people I know are on the lower end.

How did you get that illustration? Any advice?

>>1756064
Its really starting to shit up my already shit life. I really realllllyyy didn't feel like spending 40 hours making a hyper detailed illustration and having to make phone calls to ADs. Not only that but I have a full time art job already and when I get home the last thing I want to do is paint something for another massive fucking company.

Its exhausting without being depressed.
>>1756067
Applibot yes as well as gameloft. Magic that might not be their exact starting pay but it's close.

Applibot and Gameloft ADs saw my work on cghub and contacted me that way.

ImagineFX saw my work on DA and emailed me from that site.

It pays to get your work on every portfolio site you can. I use to get front page of cghub every time I uploaded something (before they were a charge site)

>>1756063

man. how'd you land that job? and can you post some of your work?

>>1756072
everytime I do /ic dicks troll me so that's not gonna happen.

>>1756071
one last not.

Be very very careful non compete contracts.

>>1756071
What are your opinions on gallery sites now? Since cghub died I haven't bothered posting my art on any others yet.

Do you never get work from cold emails? I've only had minimal luck with that, I have found getting recommendations is much better.

>>1756077
what?

you should give your gf all your money

>>1756029
>Might and Magic

Hm, havent heart about it and all google finds is stuff related to Might&Magic games. Link?

>>1756083
heard*, I cant type.

>>1756079
Sorry my hands are like ice fucking cold and its hard to type.

Be very careful of non compete contracts. Legally if you sign one for one company you can't also do work for another company for whatever amount of time the contract says.

While i'm currently employed for *big name game publisher* I also can't do freelance for other video game companies. I can do book covers and shit like that though.

Shit, I've signed things that say I can't even mention I worked for them without permission.

>>1756083
It's ubisoft's card game.
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/universe/en-us/home/index.aspx

>>1756078
Right now I have no idea what sites are good or not. I've removed most of my shit from the internet and went to the one place I can post anon cus of depression.


I have tried sending cold emails to a couple of places and it never seems to work. The closest I got was when jon Schindehette turned me down for work cus of "muh style" but he did buy all of my artbooks hahaha

>>1756073

everytime.

someone waltzes in claiming they are working in the industry but they won't ever post work.

>>1756122
Are you surprised? What professional would want to risk being associated with this shithole?

>>1756122

if you spend more time than 10 minutes a week on /ic/ you would know exactly who it is.

>>1756122
It's a classic cop out.

What else would you even expect.

>>1756137
Who is it then? I guess I dont spend those 10 minutes but want to know.

>>1756143

i'm not saying, i respect his decision to not want to say. sry if this seems "dramatic" to you or whatever.

incase though: he painted this bronze-ish robot mask being lit from the top left, and makes industry and freelance related threads somewhat often.

>>1756144
Oh, fine then, dont tell! Hmpf!

(....bronzeish robot mask..... hmmmm...... )

>>1756150
we all know who it is, we just don't want to trouble him
why would we? he is nice and usually gives good adv
fuck off and go to draw, you want to know how good he is? then you should look at people who work in the industry, that should be your standard not this guy, you are not going to get anything if he posts his work, try to fill your void trolling on other places

>>1756150
lurk moar

>>1756163
Dont give me advices m8

Bumping. Also try to keep this on topic guys.

Bumping again guys.

There's gotta be a few other pros lurking, or a few people who have at least researched and kept tabs on this stuff.

>>1756877
I keep tabs on most threads on prices and such, both here and elsewhere, but it's so damn hard to get a decent, unbiased opinion.

There's people who say that Applibot pays X every time, and so on, but they actually change prices depending on the artist. Then you have pros spouting out things like a top professional should be making $3000 in a day easily, but they don't make the point that that's just the day they hand in the art they've been working on for the past two weeks, and it might be the only commission they get for a couple of months.

Then you have guys who try be helpful about saying how much they're making, to show how life as an artist is financially viable, like Dave Rapoza saying he made $9k a month, and that was before he started doing stuff for films which pay way more. But then again, that might have only been his best month, no one mentions the bad months or the ones taken as holidays, study time, etc.

And then you get the egomaniacs who thrive off off the fake-it-till-you-make-it phenomenom, guys like Noah and Jonas de Ro and Wotjek and such who claim to be making huuuge amounts of money from their work, but who knows.

When I make it pro I'll keep track off my finances meticulously for the first 5 years or so, and then make it all public on here. That's if either of us are still around of course.

>>1757093
better become pro now and track your finance for this first 6 months and tell us as I'm probably dead after a year.

>>1757094
Getting pro now isn't gonna happen. Hopefully by the end of the summer though, Septemberish maybe. Whenever it happens, I'll keep track and post my experience on here.

>>1757093
Why you talking shit bout my boy Jonas de Ro? What'd he do? He seems like a really chill guy who doesn't give a fuck about anything.

>>1757103
Yeh. Jonas doesnt fit in the company he mentioned.

>>1757093
yea i guess its easier when you have a finance, someone you can rely on but thats kind of a dick move too since you wont able to contribute for years

Thanks for making this thread. It's something that's needed.

Imo, commercial artists seem to be way too hush hush about pay rates. You can't tell people not to charge pennies for their art and then, at the same time, not give people some kind insight on what to charge. Granted there is the GAG book, but I feel it needs to be updated.

Also, more artists should share stories about which companies they have worked for and what that entailed. It's important to know which clients pay or which dont. Which ones are great and which ones to avoid. What if the place gives out shitty contracts? What if they fucked you over?

If there was more accountability for people I feel that there would be way less people getting screwed over. Also there would be way less people selling themselves short which, in turn, fucks it up for everyone else.

>>1757173
Dude what. You mean a fiancé? Don't have one. And don't have any money either, I'm not doing this thing on easy mode at all. Don't have the option of staying at a parent's house or anything either. I could contribute right now but it'd just be a fucking empty bank account, what would you learn from that. I'll contribute nuggets of wisdom gleaned from my experience when I actually have some experience, how's that.

>>1757103
>>1757172
Not talking shit, Jonas is a great guy. I mentioned him as he's part of that crowd, Jonas, Wojtek, Darek, etc, they seem to be pushing the act professional thing and they do that constantly. It's like a professional facade you know, sure they're great guys but the image they build up is for the audience. I've only seen Wojtek post studies/portrait sketches once before, and even those were heavily edited charcoal sketches and all instagrammed and shit to look professional. I have nothing against people who do that, if it works for them so be it, but if you're trying to look pro, you don't want to be honest when you're struggling or having a shitty month with work. That was my point, that what I post later will be just honest.

Good thread. This subject is really shady... Artists dont like talking about finances and how much they earn. I always was curious about this and read a lot in the last five years. I can tell you that probably there is a lot of shitty artists making more than better ones and it should vary greatly from person to person. Cuz I never saw a conclusive article talking that "this job" pay this much and that job pays that much.

>>1757187
it is an obvious answer
artists gain enough to live well but artist are not rich in any way

>>1757187

I think it's a lot like most other freelance jobs out there: how well you can sell yourself. Marketing is always king because exposure increases your odds of getting a job. Someone being great doesn't mean shit if no one knows about them.

Look at that Jew Noah Bradley. He's far from the best out there but damn does he sell himself, hitting the reddit front page several times. Literally every post he does is geared one way or another towards increasing exposure.

On top of that he's utilising that exposure well: many amateur artists think he's great and want to be like him and sign up for his Art Camp for 400+. All because he knows how to sell himself as someone who started out not so great and who is now creating cool art.

Anthony Jones posted this on his tumblr a couple of days ago:

The Starving Artist

This topic is about rates and wages that an artist should start to consider when taking on a new job. This is my advice, so take this as advice.

So let’s begin. As an artist you should know right away that you are valuable. You can recreate people’s imagination and ideas into reality. You are the one who brings people together to be able to all see the vision for the final product. This is valuable. Keep this in mind when you take new jobs. Think about how many hours you plan on slaving over iteration after iteration. Because even though you may have a voice, if you agree to whatever the arrangement are, you must live up to their standards. So make sure you are paid well.

Imagine a client asks you to do 50 hours of work for only $500 dollars. That’s $10 an hour. That is not enough. You can go get a job that could pay you as much if not more, without being an artist. I’ve seen people’s salaries as low as 30k a year. This is not acceptable especially if they graduated from a college that costs them 90k in loans.

I suggest the following to all my fellow artists, that the minimum for your time should at least be $30 an hour. I have seen people make as much as $200-500 an hour to give you some perspective. Now that may seem like a lot but some of these artists deserve it, but some don’t. Either way the flux in income needs to be equalized so we all benefit from this, especially artists who are just starting out. It’s not fair that people get paid dimes and nickels for stuff that actually has tons of value.

If you have quality work, I’d highly recommend charging in the $75-$150 an hour, Novices $40-$60 an hour, and beginners no lower than $30 an hour. I hope this guide helps you and informs you of your worth. Your time and skills are valuable, don’t lose sight of that.

And to give you guys some more perspective. I never go below $100 an hour for freelance gigs

>>1757184
> Jonas, Wojtek, Darek, etc, they seem to be pushing the act professional thing and they do that constantly. It's like a professional facade you know

Cant see how is Jonas doing any sort of facade considering he's working for WB, he just is a profesional who is cool enough to integrate with beginners and entry level people, dont mix that up with thinking he is one of them.

>>1757217
the biggest thing to keep in mind though is that he's incredibly good at making connections

>>1757217
It's a good start, but let's try and look at some examples:

Let's say that there are two beginner artists, Beginner A and Beginner B and they are both charging $40 p/hour. Now let's say that Beginner A and Beginner B are working on an illustration. Beginner A finishes theirs in 5 hours so they make $200. Beginner B finishes in 15 hours so they make $600 hours.

Now there's Pro A and Pro B and they both charge $150 p/hour for illustration work. Pro A takes 4 hours and their rate comes to $600. Pro B clocks in at 24 hours and walks away with $3600.

So, if you work fast you screw yourself over? I guess that if you are fast you should charge more since you can get things done more quickly? Also, what if you underestimate how long it will take you to get something done? What if you thought that the piece was going to take you 10 hours, but it's going into 20 hours or more? I feel that for illustration you can't just go up to a client and be like "My rate is $100 p/hour." Illustration is not seen the same as graphic design. Going in with a flat rate is more feasible. Also, if it is taking you more time, how do you approach your client with the fact that you need to charge more?

>>1757235

Sure, but then you also label yourself as a slow working artist for the same result as a fast working one, making you less attractive down the line. Pumping through more clients also means getting greater exposure via increased word-of-mouth as in the time you've gotten 5 clients done and they've all told their industry mates about you, the other guy is still working on his first client.

It's a long game thing.

>>1757235
If you are fast work on a price per painting basis not per hour.

>>1757239
At the end of the day I think it's less about how good you are and how much you can pump out. If you can constantly deliver only being kinda good as opposed to be slow and amazing then you have a better future as a commercial artist.

>>1757246
I think that charging p/hour would give yourself a better sense of what price to charge. I would think you would charge more p/hour since you are really fast. Being fast and good is a very highly sought out skill to have. That would make you more in demand so you can charge big $$$.

>>1757250
People don't see it that way, they think it's worth less because it didn't take long to make

>>1757250
Assuming that I do not already know how much I charge per hour and then use that in a calculation with how much time I would need to finish a painting of the complexity in the brief to a obvious statement is a choice you made.

You also seem to be disregarding the fact that if a company like Wizards hire they will pay a flat rate per illustration and give you a deadline. It is your choice if you sleep or not during those supposed 3 weeks you were working or if you did it during the last 24 hours.

>>1757253
>Assuming that I do not already know how much I charge per hour and then use that in a calculation with how much time I would need to finish a painting of the complexity in the brief to make a obvious statement is a choice you made.

Sorry, posting on phone.

>>1757252
this dude is right, Fast in the industry is a 24 hour turn around not 3 hour window.
Correct me if I'm wrong (basing this on feng zhu and those youtube concepters)

>>1757256
Depends for what. I've heard of people getting assignments in the morning or afternoon and having it due in the evening.

Rarely someone fucks up or for some things like editorial there will be rush jobs that may leave a window of only a few hours.

Most jobs though yeah will have a larger time window, and a rush job still will probably have a day or two.

>>1756132

I might once I go pro. I mean, why not? On second though, that would be a very bad idea. I'd most likely get hated on for no reason and treated like shit because I tried to become an /ic/ "celebirty" or something stupid like that.


>>1756122

Of course no one wants to. Why post your work if you're a professional so people on an image board can say "learn fundamentals" or "needs more loomis" and then call you a faggot and go on leddit and post you to r/delusionalartists.

>>1757266

>call you a faggot and go on leddit and post you to r/delisionalartists

That has never happened.

>>1756029
>he thinks kitsch garbage is mid-tier
Anything made for money is subpar.

Don't change the topic goin on, it's a good subject.

>>1757314
what a retarded notion.

>>1757541

>getting lured by the bait of the resident tradfag conceptualart troll

not even once

>>1757541
How is that a retarded notion? It's fact, if something is made for Shekels, it is garbage. Deviantart furfags have more merit than you people.
>>1757543
REMINDER THAT THERE ARE NO LE EPIC MAYMAYS HERE, LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY

>>1757843
>The sistine chapel is garbage
>the mona lisa is garbage
please take an art history 101 course before opening your mouth and spouting ignorance.

>>1757852
Sistine Chapel was painted by a religious nut that would have paid for the opportunity.

The Mona Lisa is garbage.
I have taken art history, silly manchild.

>>1757843

gtfo illastrat

>>1757859
maybe you took art history but there is a difference between an idiot who gets history trhough the eyes of the time the events that took place happened and an idiot who gets history with the eyes of the present
1000 years from now we will be all seen primitive too, and stupid teenagers will wonder why we did a lot of things, just like you are doing r8 now, being all edgy as a fucky

>>1757867
Can you please stop replying to him? The thread was silent for hours. You're doing more damage than him at this point.

>>1757867
Could you write a coherent sentence?

>>1756029
I need this thread!

I've managed to get some contacts and sent out my portfolio to all these guys vvvv but that was almost two weeks ago and I still haven't heard from anyone. The closest I've gotten was getting the email of a MtG art director and Ive been sending him any new stuff I do and he even did a paintover for me (omg). That's it though.

I think we should post the actual emails and submission thing of sites for peeps too. This is what I've got so far.

Fantasy Flight Games
------------------------
introduction and link to online portfolio
freelanceartists@fantasyflightgames.com

Wizards of the Coast
---------------------------
http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2236

Paizo Publishing
--------------------
artsubmissions@paizo.com
andrew.vallas@paizo.com

Applibot
-----------
http://www.applibot.co.jp/e/recruit/

I don't know if the applibot one is right. Does anyone have the actual email for legend of the cryptids?

>>1757876

awesome! thanks mane.

>>1757235
Always charge a flat rate. If you go by the hour theres some bullshit about being an 'artist for hire' and whatnot.

Take an image youve already done and know how many hours it took and gauge what the price and time of the new one will be and just charge a flat rate.

>>1757885
I was also asked by another MtG at the Con after a portfolio review why I wasn't working professionally. How I git dem jobs??

>>1757888

bamp!

>>1757253
>You also seem to be disregarding the fact that if a company like Wizards hire they will pay a flat rate per illustration and give you a deadline.

I wasn't disregarding that at all. Did you read the post that I was replying to? In the post the guy was advising that you need a rate to charge p/hour.

If that's the case are you supposed to try and renegotiate a new rate if your rate is higher than what these companies are charging you? If you are out of their budget won't they just move to the a new artist unless they really just need to have.

>>1757270

No. That happens a few times here and there. The people here are pretty salty. About 5-6 months ago, some guy posted an (admittedly) shitty color blocking he did on his android tablet and wanted it to be a demonstration/critique of his painting process. He mentioned that he only took a few minutes to do the color blocking and that the tablet was giving him issues or some shit. Anyways, before OP got a chance to even upload a second image some one here started berating him and posted him to r/delusional artists and made it look like OP was some self proclaimed grand master/teacher of painting. Shit was classy.

>>1758468

what a cunt

So are these fout companies poster here >>1757876 the only places one can email for work? Anyone know of any other art directors anywhere else?

>>1759449
bamp, i need to eat

>>1760194
OP here. I recently also applied to Kobold Press and got a response rather quickly asking my rates, but haven't heard back since I replied.

Artbygameco is another option.

I've heard of people getting some work off freelanced.com but I don't think the pay is typically good. If you dig around a lot you can find stuff up to maybe 500 per painting or so?

So far the only responses I've gotta from forums jobs sections offer to pay <100$ so have been useless.

>>1760202
>freelanced.com

Seems like every other freelance hub shithole filled with indians working for 5 usd per hour and delivering images grabbed from the net.

>>1760221
Yeah I haven't personally used it. I know a couple people who get some work off it though. They say that there is a lot of junk on there but you can get the occasional thing that pays I guess in the 400 to 500 range for a book cover. I think the highest I heard someone get was 700 there. The two people I know who use it are like middle tier or lower middle tier, though both are good enough to impress most people on /ic/. I suppose if you have a good portfolio you stand out amongst all the crap there.

>>1760245
>both are good enough to impress most people on /ic/

even rembrandt fails to impress most of /ic/

>>1760260
Eh, depends on the day. Some days yu get a couple vocal assholes who think all artists are shit and that the best in the industry are all hacks. Other days you get tons of people sucking the cocks of whoever can draw at anything past a basic level.

>>1758468

That's kinda low even for the trolliest of trolls.

>>1760221
ahah oh god those indonesians on those sites man..

>>1760314
Hey, want to buy some artwork? Legit stuff I delivering, promise your company no get copyright sued, me reversed the image, search enginue no findu. Twenty dolar per artwork, deal??