/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>1752512
Post your drawing you are most proud of. There is no secret, only knowledge.

>>1752512
Just do what /ic/ tell you to do but instead real life studies use doujinshis.

>>1752512
5000 is like a month's worth

>>1752512
The secret is to keep drawing your guys, girls and waifus while still studying.

You know how to draw a box and a cylinder, now use them like lego bricks to build a body, use your knowledge of gesture to make it have some action, use loomis to put the muscles and features in the right place.

Fail spectacularly and do it again. You're an idiot if you think you should just do a bunch of boring drills for months or weeks without any personal work on the side.

>>1752516
Yeah but isn't there any method behind it? Like the loomis head method. I've looked it up and it's usually horrifyingly bad like this (pic). Also tips/pointers on just drawing in general. Like "here are useful instructions on drawing legs/arms/tits/ass/dick/balls/feet/hands/fingers. Not "haha okay welcome to the sticky draw bruce willis perfectly oh you cant? LOL SYMBOL DRAWING. kk srsly tho come back in like 3 yrs once u can draw him perfectly"

>>1752512
I'm pretty damn sure what the artists tell you isn't bullshit.
The gestures and structure are meant to adapt your mind to drawing poses and figures. When someone "draws a pose from their imagination", they're not really drawing a pose from their imagination. They're just looking inside their head at all the poses they've stored from all the gesture drawing they've done, and mishmashing bits and pieces to create an image. You can't create a pose or a human unless you've gotten an eyeful of poses and humans.

Dick option: Post your damn art and then we can start talking about shit.

From what I can tell, if you can't imagine detailed scenes in your mind you're fffffffucked because even those people have to work really hard

>>1752518
No I don't think I should do "drills" my point is that's all there fuckin is out there. If you google "how to draw" all you get are fuckin drills. The sticky is just a bunch of fuckin drills. Nobody ever sits down and cuts the bullshit to teach you how to draw. It's always "concepts" and "ideologies" and all that fuckin obvious ass bullshit. Nobody fuckin sits down draws the gesture then mannequinizes it then draws anatomy for a stupid ass fuckin thing like pic in the OP. That guy probably spent like 10 minutes max just on the drawing, and yeah it isn't amazing but it's visually appealing and that's what counts, and thats what I want.

>>1752519
Shitty metaphor, but drawing is like playing a JRPG. The faster you grind, the better you become in that period of time, right?
You don't want to learn in 3 years, then start now, do everything you can, don't waste a minute, a second, a millisecond, a nanosecond, a picosecond, draw as much as possible and every fucking minute. You're bound to see massive improvement in just a month.

>>1752512
git gud

>>1752523
The sticky gives the impression that getting better at drawing by continuing drawing will have you end up sucking.

>>1752528
If you do studies (as well as do plenty of stuff for yourself) you should be alright.

>>1752522
>Nobody fuckin sits down draws the gesture then mannequinizes it then draws anatomy for a stupid ass fuckin thing like pic in the OP.

That's where you're wrong. You need to do that. Anyone you see who doesn't nail down gesture/anatomy at first has done is so often that its in their mind and not necessary on the paper.

>>1752520
This.

You can only learn by spamming your brain, wrist and shoulders with visual and physical information. You can't know how to draw ANYTHING well from imagination without looking at it, seeing it, FEELING it and DRAWING it over and over again.

Start working hard now or stay bad and sad forever, nig. Real talk. I had ten years to figure this shit out and I threw them all away thinking it'd "just happen" as if by magic. Don't make the same mistake.

>>1752531
Would you happen to have an old drawing and a new drawing handy to post, even if they're just sketches?

>>1752512
There is no secret.

There is no silver bullet.

There is no magic piece of advice.

There is no shortcut.

There is no workaround.

There is no one book.

There is only hard work and complete dedication to your craft. If you want to learn how to draw you put in the mileage and learn to understand and apply the fundamentals. Stop looking for an easy way out because there isn't one, the sooner you realise this the sooner you will be able to start working towards your goals.

the only real lessons you need are time and patience, a lot, you get those down you can draw anything. The only problem is, you're still a shit artist, just with a lot of time to waste. So either learn slow, or work slow, your choice.

Well my friend, The secret involves finding the magic revolver elves that live deep in the atlantis caves.

Only select few have successfully found them, for the rest of us it boils down hard work.

this is the secret

>>1752543
>>1752539
I never asked for an easy way. I never use the word easy. My entire point was learning fucking gesture and shapes and shit isn't fucking helping me draw a leg or a face any better. Understand? Not looking for EZPZ secret, just the secret. Because the sticky sucks fuckin ass and it's wasting my time.

>>1752547
You are a waste of time, it's like arguing with a SJW who believes 2+2=3 because 4 feels like a 3 and no matter what you do even if you put 4 apples in front of them and explain how two and two goes into 4 they'll start questioning the identity of the apples.

This is you right now, stop arguing and start drawing apples from life motherfucker.

Anime and manga style are the product of ANIMATION and COMICS.

A style simplified for a shit ton of drawing (thousands of frames of animation/comic pages). Pro anime/manga people have had alot of drawing practice, their job dictates it.

fucking DA weebs come along and started to adopt this simple style for really shitty illustrations (ONE FUCKING DRAWING VS THOUSANDS) and struggle the fuck at it because they haven't drawn a fuckload, rather than drawing full blown comics they spend a week on a SINGLE anime girl picture.

So the answer is, draw a lot and stop spending days on one fucking illustration in a shit simple style. Oh yeah and foundation. Basically make art your life, and you too can one day be a DA supastar and maybe even collect a weekly paycheck.

>>1752547
Not JUST gesture. Gesture is also for laying down proportions and weight to make a believable character. On top of gesture you need an understanding of anatomy. To go with this anatomy, you need an understanding of volume, which is where your boxes come in handy. Boxes and spheres make you a better artist because you're training your mind to think in three dimensions and draw on two.
These are making you a better artist because they're training you to think and see the translation from 3d to 2d. And anatomy is training you to not make mutated monsters.

>>1752552
>DA
How about pixiv. Also, you and I have different goals, clearly. I'm not looking to draw somebody's portrait for a commission.
>>1752551
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it isn't working for me and it's frustrating and NOT FUN.

>>1752537
I don't have any old drawings that I'd happened to have held onto, nothing I fell in love with. My art was and is garbage. While it didn't ever look super ms paint autistic or anything it was always naive and took me way too long to make something look correct to even my un-trained eye.

I'm in the same boat as you as far as inexperience goes, I've just gotten to the point where I've accepted my fate and am now starting to take things seriously. I am a bad artist and these hands drawn from George Bridgman's book are no exception, but I know if I draw my balls off and try and learn something in the process using the recommended materials such as Loomis etc. I will be alright in the end.

Draw without fear, take nothing in the oft-recommended reading materials for granted and you'll make it, brah. If you dismiss this stuff like I did for so long you'll regret it. Start as soon as you're able and for the love of god stay off 4chan or any other social-life surrogate as best you can.

>>1752557
Yeah and it makes sense, I just feel lost and like I'm making zero progress. My shitty box/sphere/cylinder mannequins still look as garbage as they did weeks ago. I have no guidance, every tutorial is just this legendary artist drawing it mindblowingly perfectly and being about as vague as possible.

>>1752547
You're only upset because the sticky doesn't tell you what you want to hear. Drawing anything involves construction, building your subject with form and contour. The sticky explains this but you're too short sighted to see this and you're quick to write it off because it doesn't hold your hand in drawing cute girls.

Accept this fact and start learning or just stay bitter because you aren't Bering spoonfed.

>>1752558
You know dude maybe if you put in half the effort that you're putting into bitching into drawing instead you'd be able to draw your waifus by now.

>>1752563
>>1752564
Should've left out the waifus part because I knew I'd get buttholes like you two.

>>1752565
Whose is you're waifu brah?

>>1752558
Yngwie Malmstien didn't just pick up a guitar one day and be able to play rising force. He learned his scales by grinding them for hours upon hours day in and day out. It's not gonna be fun, it's gonna be frustrating and it's gonna be hard but if this is what you want to do you will stick to it and put in the hard, boring work because there is no way around it.

>>1752566

>>1752565
>hurr you guys are just being mean
No, you turd, believe it or not /ic/ is trying to help you. Stop playing the victim, stop looking for "the secret" and start learning the fundies.

>>1752571
Don't listen to him, OP for there is indeed a secret it's the secret spoken in Math and in order to understand this secret you must study from nature and how she uses math to speak to you.

Gaze upon this spiral for it is the secret /ic/ has been keeping from you. Don't believe me? Use it on your waifu and be amazed.

>>1752512
No secret. Just study the fundamentals, draw people while being aware of and making use of the fundamentals (perspective, form, gesture, anatomy, etc.).
If you're frustrated by it then it makes me think that you don't understand it completely.
If you don't know how to just draw something from a reference(be it life or photo) then I don't think you understand a very important part of drawing, which is knowing how to "see".
Once you know this, and some basic fundamentals, you'll be able to find out by yourself how to draw anything with practice and analysis.
You'll look at a bunch of hands, draw them a lot, and will eventually understand how exactly a hand is shaped and be able to describe that 3D shape using 2D lines.
But you can only do this if you know how to "see" first. This means to be able to look at things objectively, as angles and contours and simple forms and such. It still won't be easy; from that point you'll need to just practice a lot. Slowly, you'll get better.
I think the book Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain demonstrates how to see pretty well, but I'm not totally sure, I haven't looked at it in years.
Anyway, I would give some more specifics to check out if it weren't for some internet problems I'm having.
Practice a lot and good luck...

I'll tell you the secret, OP
Artists like Glenn Vilppu have a device attached to their brains that allows them to physically feel the line they are drawing, Vilppu's model is old so it can easily be seen sticking out of his head.

Now what I can't tell you is where you can get one of these, but usually art colleges can if you're rich enough

>>1752522
Oh I see, so you're deluded and you only want us to say what you think we should say.

You're spewing out shit you don't even understand. Artists that study and practice a lot have information stored in their heads that they use to draw what they desire.
If a good artist can draw something good in 5 minutes, it's because they have the experience to take shortcuts and make their workflow efficient. You can't just immediately bypass the learning stage and get to that level.

Maybe if you can replace the shit in your brain with the knowledge accumulated from studying, you'll be able to draw your waifus properly, and not like some 12 year old weaboo.

If you're really not seeing the results of drills and studies, you're doing it wrong.

>>1752572

>>1752519
Well. From what i saw in static anime imagery - there is not really a lot of ways to expose character in illustration of different sorts. And hentai is limited a lot more. It creates an illusion that there is a distinctive method to anime drawing. It's partially true i think but still basic drawing experience going to give you more freedom.

>>1752579
It's just your brain being a selective faggot. You can make that thing "fit" like 90% of images.

http://youtu.be/aYSWrdBAlD0

>>1752559
Copying every drawing in anatomy is fine, if you want to copy nice drawings. But I think it would be much more effective if you want to understand the muscle, to draw a shitty skeleton in different poses and try to built up every muscle from their insertion point to where they end.

I made a very shitty exemple to illustrate what i mean, but please do not use it as reference. That's what anatomie books are for.

Anti sitcky fag just got another troll act!
Seriously though, even if this isn't trolling, it's pretty fucking stupid.

To all begginers, just keep doing gestures, life drawing, studies from life and the work of good artists and mastering all fundamentals, you guys are bound to see progress, just keep doing it, no doubt, no fear, no remorse, just fucking keep doing it.

>>1752519
Are you stupid? Loomis is the starting point for many artists, so naturally you will se a lot of shit tier work TRYING to use Loomis' method, because the artists themselves are still really bad, just like you are. There is no method that makes you good instantly. You still have to put in hours of work to really understand it. Whether you use Loomis' method, Hampton's, Reilly's, Vilppu's or whatever other methods of construction, it doesn't matter one bit if you are unwilling to put in the work you need to get good at it.

Pic related, does this look even the slightest bit like the shit you posted?

>I'm not stupid, I know how to draw a fuckin box and a cylinder.
So intelligent you couldn't figure out that those exercises were for developing your mental habits of creating blueprints in your head for what you're about to draw, and not about drawing the shapes themselves.

>>1752568
Malmsteem fucking blows.

Learn everything about drawing and painting.
Of course, this includes lighting, texture, anatomy, abstraction.
Other things you come across, never wing it, always use reference.
Make art every week, if not every day.
Ignored problems will persist. Always fix your problems.
Study while you draw, sit, sleep, eat or shit. Observe.

Few people are naturally inclined to draw well, it's hard work.
Anyone can learn to draw, so don't let it stop you if it takes time.
Good luck, and remember, if all else fails read capital letter of every sentence.

>>1752675
You take that back you fuckin' piece of shit!

http://grooveshark.com/s/Brothers/o7BkV?src=5

>>1752512
If you can't figure out the reason why people tell you to use a cylinder or how important a box is, you simply haven't put enough time in yet; Trust me I thought I could draw a cylinder well until I actually tried to apply it to my work.

tl:dr
Apply yourself and be patient.

>>1752512
Just draw your fucking waifus then while studying shit occasionally.

>try to draw muh waifu
>it's shit
>kill photoshop's exe with the task manager
>tfw

1. Get rid of the tablet. This means stick with traditional media for a while.
2. Disconnect the internet or avoid time waisting sites
3. Wear a tattered robe like pic related whenever you draw and never wash it. You must feel like a disciple.
4. Set up your drawing area like how an artist from the renaissance would. Your workspace is critical. Buy an easel or artist desk.
5. With all this set up you must trick your mind you are in the renaissance period of art and you must treat the teachers you watch on your computer as the master painters. You must tick the mind that you are the apprentice of Rafael and Michelangelo, or Cimabue and Giotto because this is a very big deal to be taught by these men. So you must pretend Vilppu is Jesus himself, and who wouldn't want to learn from Jesus in the flesh? Your problem is because you get this valuable information for free you take it for granted.
6. Remember the mind is the number 1 enemy. If you don't have a good mindset you will fail.
7. Regularly get new music to listen to.
8. Give up video games, tv, youtube etc until you get good (hardmode)

>>1752512
You bitch too much.
Start taking these guys' advise and piss off.

>>1752512
The secret is literally doing more than what you said.
You've lost. Enjoy never being able to draw your waifus and shit. how dare you even think for a minute this shit is supposed to be easy.

Read the sticky.

>>1752512
Ask Sinix. That guy learned to draw in 6 months.

don't listen to /ic/, studying like you were in an atelier wont make you a waifu-artist
study the stuff you like, break it down into shapes and lines. imitate. copy
practice a lot, that's seriously the gist of mastering anything
always work on making a finalized image alongside practice, that'll teach you to think about the end-product. it's important to never lose focus on the end-product
this wont make you a super well-rounded artist but it's enough to make a guy who can draw "guys, girls and waifus"

>>1752753

oh and study the symbols. be serious about that, manga is all about symbols. you'll need to practice that a lot

If you've lost patience trying to learn the fundamentals, then you clearly don't have what it takes to make it as an artist, especially since you've resorted to asking for some kind of cure-all secret tutorial video which doesn't exist. Don't ever try to draw again. Banish it from your mind, and give up all hope. Your kind is ill-equipped to succeed in anything, ever.

>>1752806
rude.

>>1752829
Die in a fire

>>1752806
is that what you tell yourself every day?

>>1752833
He is right, though.

OP STOP BEING A LAZYASS AND JUST PRACTICE AND HAVE SOME WORK ETHIC, YOU TURD

>>1752832
rude.

All the box forms and gestures in the world aren't worth shit if you don't draw from reference regularly. Doesn't have to be photo studies, if you want to draw anime, use anime as your reference. Also when drawing from imagination never settle, if you know something doesn't look right find a ref and fix it.

I never did any studies and hated figure drawing. I would just draw what I liked all the time but always tried to improve while doing it.

Basically just by drawing you should improve. Figure Drawing, still lives, studies, ect do help but they are so fucking boring and not really necessary.

And now I get paid to paint so fuck what others say. Paint what you like and if you really like it odds are you will improve.

>>1752871
Did you have talent or did you start out shitty? Also post pics of drawings, I'm curious.

>>1752878
in highschool I was... ok-ish I guess. Not like one of those 17 year olds that do amazing drawings you see online now.

That was in 2005. I'll try to find an example from then and a new one. It was really bad anime but I still love anime and paint it so haha

>>1752878
>>1752880
heres a pretty even example. Not finished on the 2014 painting though.

similiar-ish pose, hair, and style

>>1752885
Noice
I'd fug them both :DDD

>>1752885
You are, in 2005, where I'd be happy to be in several years. What worked for you probably won't work for those who start out shitty and have trouble even drawing the basic human form.

>>1752885
shame you never figured out hands and feet kneegur

>>1752900
oh shit nigga, he better start setting up those still life to learn them shit then.

>>1752890
He still started from nothing at one point in his life and so are you, he's just ahead of you in time spent drawing. You will get to where you wanna be if you put in the work.

>>1752900
umm, what?

>>1752906
I mean that he started out "ok-ish". He probably had some talent that others don't have. Maybe he could already draw figures decently and didn't need all the figure/shape training.

>>1752871
I agree with this. I'm not an amazing artist at all and don't draw as much as I should. Just a mid-tier one who's sold a few commissions.

I don't think I ever did a proper "study". Perhaps instead I turned most drawings I did into mini-studies.

When I decided I wanted to take drawing more seriously, I basically did this: If I thought it'd be cool to draw a wolf that day, I'd google pictures of both actual wolves and drawn wolves to see how people interpreted the anatomy, and make sure it looked better than my last attempt. If I got good at one angle or pose I'd try another. I also watched a lot of tutorials and speed drawings of artists I admired. Even finished art I examined if I was really impressed with it. Over time all of that information just stuck with me and helped me improve even when I wasn't practicing.
Nowadays I don't try as hard to improve since I can draw okay without referencing, but you shouldn't let yourself fall into that habit.

As long as you try to improve with each picture and actually take critique, you should get better. If that method doesn't work then perhaps you do need to do it the "hard way".

>>1752920
Even then ignore peoples crits.

Thing is people are dumb and when they critique something they are wrong the majority of the time.

Start with this guy he will tell you "why lines go where"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ef_uyqHHfw

>>1752927
Valid point. You do need to be wary when taking critique. If it doesn't make sense it can be discarded, but you have to use some common sense. Don't fall into "muh style".

But honestly if you're a complete beginner, I'd guess that most actual crits would be accurate.

>>1752871
>>1752885

Not OP, but I draw more so like the 2005 picture. Do I just continue reading loomis and drawing gestures and over all trying to improve, and I'll get better?

And can I draw what I want along with doing studies?
Because I'm reading fun with a pencil, but I understand and apply everything I've read so far in the book... but I'll still finish it

>>1752927
this.

people will tell you your anatomy is wrong, or that the lighting isn't consistent,

but those people know nothing about style.

>>1752933
HOW
THE
HELL

The way he so effortlessly, smoothly draws every line and shape perfectly
HOW?
Is this seriously just many many years of dedicated repeating?

>>1752951
it's talent

>>1752945
the difference is primarily in lighting/rendering and technique so no they won't really help you get the second picture.

>>1752927
Yeah, that's the way. Ignore everyone because you can't tell which crits aren't helping. You aren't good enough to do that, you'll never have the talent so dont even try. Tell them they know nothing about style. You've been trained wrong on purpose, as a joke.

>>1752951
He's confident, he's talented, he has a supermachine instead of a brain working on each line, and he's a badass.

>>1752885
this could have been a year's progression

>>1752950
>>1752960
>>1752975

Same guy that replies to everytHing I post it's flattering.

They are also the people artist should ignore.

>>1753005
Everything about this post confuses me.

>this thread

>>1752885
The first one may be a flat, but is actually a better drawing; the proportions are more accurate. In second the arms are a little too short, torso is too narrow, and the head is too big for the body. Not to mention, how strange the pose is.

>>1752975 is right. This isn't a very good example and could've been learned in a year. Overall, only major difference between the two is a change of technique.

>>1752568
UNLEASH THE FOCKIN FURY

>>1752933

>>1753012
this.
i don't even get mad at /ic/ anymore.

but there is some truth behind OPs crap. blind grinding doesn't do much for you.
bottom line is, you have to:
1. practice smart
2. practice a lot

for example, if you eventually get good enough to realize that your poses are utter shit, you will automatically get to the topic of gesture, it's natural.
same with all the other topics which are considered fundamentals.

I been drawing what I want and learning from other artists. It's helped me A LOT, but not where I want to be, so going to start reading loomis and taking his advice and apply it to my own work.

I will also continue to draw what I want, but make 70 percent of it studies.

>>1752519
you definetely don't know how to draw spheres and cylinders judging from this

>>1753037
So.. like my poses look stiff, I'm bad at hands, etc so I just study those? Basically look to improve everything I'm bad at, right?

>>1753044
basically, use your head.
the entire craft is about problemsolving. and that goes for both realistic and stylized art

>>1752960
I know this is baiting pretty hard but there are people on /ic/ that seriously believe this.

Yes, every piece of critique should be taken with a grain of salt but there isn't some retarded conspiracy to keep people that want to draw certain things down.

>>1752933
learning everything and nothing at the same time, I love this guy. now I am talent too.

Speaking from experience and having similar feelings OP just don't stand around kicking the dirt frustrated.

Hit up some Hampton
Hit up some Hogarth

Think of something you don't particularly have an emotional investment or interest in, get some refs from google images and just draw it, draw it from the refs and extrapolate it's form from the photos and draw it in another angle.

Failing that, just do dumb shit like practicing point-to-point straight lines or see how tight and long you can get some hatching going

Read some art history

Get your brain and hands working, whatever it takes.

>>1753047
believe it or not, but before there was baiting there was trolling. Before there was trolling, there was flame baiting. But.. even before that, before youtube even existed there was this thing called a joke. Sarcasm, even. It was a thing, you know.

>>1752885
I've realized why i find your faces so wrong. You always hide the neck so its not that easy to spot, but the head always feels disconnected, and the head structure in the 3/4 quarter view is not right. Sharp jawline like a bobblehead doll, mouths too far up and the face too centered, makes it feel punched in. At least that's where I'd start.

>>1753046

Basically

>I wanna draw
>Uh oh, I don't know shit about drawing hands, feet, side views, mouths, my poses are stiff, my backgrounds suck, etc
>Study your weak points
>Repeat
>git gud
Its ok to draw what you want, but make sure your doing studies more so than drawing what you want, not the other way around. Also don't forget to draw out of your comfort zone.

Don't like drawing feet? draw them, fill up a dozen sketch books if you have to
Feel uncomfortable drawing backgrounds? DO IT ANYWAYS.

>>1753125
What if you can't see your weak points? (I do, I'm just asking for others)

>>1753125
>tfw I enjoy drawing every new thing I don't usually draw
Is this good or bad?

>>1753132
Critique from others?

>>1753132
you learn how you're supposed to do it beforehand. Or look up a reference. Critique is not something you can just get.

But really, just google image it, see how it's supposed to be, and do that.

>>1753134
good if you need range. bad if you suck at everything equally.

you would think with how people talk here in /ic/ the place would be full of old pros.

But its sadly full of a bunch of super try hards that try to critique every little thing

>>1753155
Well at least most if not everybody puts the emphasis to fundamentals before muh style and provides resources via sticky. It has its ups and downs but I wouldn't trade /ic/ for any other place.

>>1753155
and critiqued by people that have no idea what the hell they are talking about

>professional concept artist gives advice
>beginners all shoot it down
>/ic/ wonders why no pros post here

>>1753160
There are artists that have fundamentals knuckled down here who frequent or post(ed) on /ic/. Take Greydeath for example he is indeed a professional since he makes money off his work and is knowledgeable in the craft.

>>1752512

fish around conceptart.org threads through google you will find good stuff

>>1752512
>>1752512
The secret to drawing is not being a whiny bitch. You are currently the epitome of a whiny bitch.
Now unless you truly want to get any better, you're going to have to grit your teeth and man up. Draw 5000 gesture drawings, or a billion boxes in "15 point perspective." You're not gonna magically create beautiful art by sticking your pencil up your ass and shitting on the paper; you must practice.
The whole reason we go through this "bullshit" is because we love what we do. We genuinely enjoy drawing anything and everything, even if it's just boxes and cylinders. If you think all of it is worthless then you just don't have enough love for the craft. You expect magnificence to come to YOU, instead of YOU striving for IT. That's not how art works. That's not how any skill works. You gotta believe that you want to create art--you gotta believe that you CAN create art--you gotta believe that you MUST CREATE ART.
There's your prized "secret." Now get the fuck off of your ass and go draw something already.

The secret has always been in front of you...draw from life.

>>1753020
Not the artist behind these, but you're objectively wrong in both points.

There is no technique difference, they're both digital drawings. The second one has an overall better understanding of anatomical landmarks and the like. It's realistically stylized, hence the large head. The arms seem short due to their foreshortening, although that's not executed perfectly. There's even a slight depiction of the skin's subsurface scattering of light. None of which were present in the left picture.

The right one isn't perfect, but the difference between the two, in a broad sense, are quite obvious.

Overall, 2/10 for making me reply.

>>1752575
Check if your skull implant is compatible.

>>1753206

10/10

Stop being a bitch, that's a good place to start.

>>1753020
>>1752975
Oh shit since improving is THAT easy you guys must be fuckkkinnggg amaazzzinnggg

>>1752885
Wow; great work.
Do you have a website or tumblr or something? I'd like to see more of your work.

>>1753220
Don't be sour, there are plenty of people who progressed that fast or were you expecting endless praises?

>>1752547
Coming in late, but OP, things like gesture and implying form, seeing the whole image, yadda yadda, seems irrelevant but really those ARE the most important thing you need to know. When you want to illustrate an idea that you have all of those things will come into play.

It's very abstract and hard to grasp, I understand, but stick with it.

>>1753232
I will never be as good as you art master

>>1753234
i hope this sarcasm is making you feel better about yourself because it also makes you look like an idiot.

>>1752885
>>1753220
>>1753232

I don't want my progress to take 10 fucking years like this guy did, I wanna git gud FAST.
You're telling me I can improve that much in a year? I have seen it done, so I guess I better get started

>>1753250
The speed of your progress depends on your natural aptitude, what most people call "Talent". People who lack talent compensate with more effort/hard work.

If you don't have talent nor willing to go through additional effort, don't expect to get anywhere quickly.

>>1753250
Calender time is important but you can literally slay it with grinding if you're spastic enough. It's important what you're grinding though. You can't just cover the same spots, it's like clearing out cobwebs from a room. The first couple times you attack a section is the most effective. I am full of beer.

>>1753199
>anime eyes
>loli figure
>unbalanced pose
>dislocated shoulder
>fucked up foreshortening

Ohhh but it's "realistically stylised" so it's better.

>>1753185
Why is drawing from so emphasized? I kinda force myself to do it as often as I can but having a logical explanation to why it so important would certainly help

>>1753298
drawing from life*

sorry

>>1753298
So you can use your depth perception to better understand how form works

A lot of people seem to consider technical skill as end in itself, but I would rather see it as a tool. Can you accurately depict what you envision in your mind? If not study the topics that are giving you trouble.
For example, OP try to draw your waifu from imagination and check all the mistakes.
Is the perspective fucked up? learning how to draw boxes in 3d will help.
Are the proportions inhuman? Loomis will help.
Is the pose stiff and uninspired? Gesture will help.
etc...
But remember studies are not the end goal itself, but they are the most efficient way you can improve on problematic areas. Sure you might be able to improve only by drawing only whatever you like and never actually studying; but I can assure you it will take much longer to do.

>>1753298
You have to actually look at the object, you can move around... It's not a flat thing on a screen / paper. A big issue a lot of people have is that they just aren't looking before they draw. If you sit down and appreciate something visually for 5 minutes you'll learn far more than if you haphazardly draw for hours.

Try giving this a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un3p614XExc
The subject is music but the concepts can be applied to anything.

Before you even start a study some thought should be put into what you want to do with it, one question should definitely be; Why? If you aren't sure why you're doing a study, don't - this isn't high school...

>>1753302
Is close to the system that I've followed for the last two years, imagination draw find mistakes do studies go back and draw from imagination. Something I've found to be an enormous help is to paint from memory all the time, since this is the thing you'll be relying on most when you're starting out your imagination sketches.

Don't try to stamp studies into your paintings though, it's obvious and you'll get better things from just using your memories. ( Usually you prune out anything that is unnecessary in your memories) Makes your stuff look like you dreamt it onto the page.

I'm not saying that photos are a bad source of information, they can't be matched when you need to snipe detail for specific things (how does y look under x condition) but I've only done a handful of photo studies over the last two years, the rest being master copies and studying from life, and I've improved tremendously and will continue to do so since this system of study scales with my abilities infinitely.

>>1752512
>dissing fundamentals
>dissing loomis
>secret all-in-one method
Watch carefully OP, I will show you.

>>1753350
Waifus are formed with blocks and circles

>>1753350
>>1753356

Please stop man its embarrassing.

>>1753350
lmao

>>1753359
>>1753360
Don't listen to these people OP, they are just jealous. They are just trying to separate you from your waifu.

>>1753366
10/10 would print out and slap into a body pillow.

The secret is your heart OP, you can do it.

>>1753297
>Yep. Stylized. The left one is full blown animu. Point no longer valid.
>So what?
>Yep. It looks weird as shit.
>Could be fixed easily.
>Yep. Could be fixed.

Quit grasping at straws and look at the overall picture, which by the way, is probably one of many. It's a very big improvement. Is it a 9 year worthy improvement given the errors present? Depending on the way you look at it, yes or no.

Yes, it's an improvement if the artist is more of a hobbyist. Yes, it's an improvement if the artist was NOT taking a scholarly approach. No, it's not an improvement if the previous statements are not true.

It's a decent improvement, regardless of the amount of years that it took for it to happen. That, and not everyone studies (that's a very valid accusation especially on /ic/) in the manner of the old/current masters.

Anyone can improve very quickly in a year, depending on the individual's dedication, aptitude, and/or study regime. But to say that this person did not improve at all in those nine years, is just plain stupid.

>tl;dr: look at the big picture, scrub.

>>1752512
My advice, OP, is to get off your whiny, lazy ass, and go fucking draw. Stop expecting skill to be handed to you. You'll either git gud by drawing and practicing, or sucking fat dick otherwise. Get over it.

>>1753370
kek

>>1752512
>>1752519
If there's anything close to a trick it's seeing and thinking in 3d. You need to understand form, don't just draw what you see on the surface without understanding it. Your problem is also that you aren't applying what you're learning, just drawing prisms in perspective but then continuing to draw the same flat figure. Drawing boxes probably won't help you, but keep doing gestures (and pay attention to the weight and movement this time instead of just drawing what you see) and sketch a ton, in different poses and angles, and do studies of references, Think of drawing more like sculpting and stop drawing symbols.

I think some people are definitely more naturally inclined towards art but that doesn't mean you can't learn. Oh and studying some art you like (notice the angles and curves in the lines, the shading, why and how they did what they did, etc) will probably help.

I agree with OP.

Every single time I look for a tutorial or explanation on how shadows work in a human face or body I just get the same fucking ball with the different values.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT FUCKING PARTS SHOULD I SHADE IN A FACE OR A TORSO WHEN THE LIGHT COMES FROM ABOVE OR THE SIDE. HEADS ARE NOT FUCKING SMOOTH BALLS.

>>1753459
if you would take the time to actually learn the different planes of the face and to see in 3d you would know where the light hits what form and how to shade it.

>>1753459
You are too stupid to succeed at art

>>1753459
I really can't tell anymore if idiots like you or OP are being sarcastic or genuinely this stupid.

>>1753459
please stop baiting, it isn't nice. I am NOT a fish.

>>1753470
>every stupid comment is bait
>all crit is jealousy based
This is what betas such as yourself actually believe.

>>1753473
it is bait until proven otherwise because considering the option is much more terrifying. I don't know how the beta thing comes into play considering your two previous green text, but I'll write it off as someone on the internet stringing random words together again ;_;

>>1753473
Please leave.

>>1753473
>thinking that a post is b8 makes that nigga beta

>>>/r9k/ is that way faggot

Stop fucking up the board with this beta shit who fucking cares. Go back to your incel board

The secret is to draw what you like.

berst is bestureee

>>1753511
skib steps add animtomies frub imabination

>>1753515
bretty gud :DDD

>>1753515
FINISHED with minor ebbits :D

>>1753511
>>1753515
>>1753522
Ebin :DDDDD

>>1752512
Nice thread OP, really shows the complete demography of /ic/. Also shows how much these hardcore tough guys like bashing on the casual.

>>1753522

>>1753529
>people your craft as a joke
>expect people not to lash out

>>1752512
>I know how to draw a fuckin box and a cylinder
Ohhhh I bet you fucking dont.

>>1753417
>Anyone can improve very quickly in a year, depending on the individual's dedication, aptitude, and/or study regime. But to say that this person did not improve at all in those nine years, is just plain stupid.

Going back to by my and the other person's point: We didn't say there was no "improvement", but that what they presented as a before and after could've been learned in a year.

Let's be really honest here: "Hobbyist" or not, taking NINE YEARS just to learn how to blend in photoshop and still making obvious anatomical mistakes is a poor progression.

>>1753620
Theres a progression of nine years between that you realize this right? Its not like it went from THAT ONE picture to THE NEXT.

There are very very very few people that could do a jump like that in a year. /IC/'s elitism is through the roof

Shit just look at the people at IC. Theres like 3 people here that are at that level. If it were so easy and possible to improve that much in a single year everyone here would... not be beginners.

>>1753633
Take your bruised ego somewhere else.

>>1753638
Theres only one person that actually hard a mjor jump in this ->
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php/269717-noob-to-pro-a-list-of-CA-s-epic-progress-sketchbooks

>>1753638
I'm actually trying to help people instead of troll. I like sharing art, looking at art, and helping others. Yet the pretentiousness of people like you are what keep people from actually improving.

But whatever. Artist like OP can either listen to a bunch of try hards that know jack shit about art or an artist that's been working professionally for about 10 years now.

You know, either or.

>>1753654
>pretentiousness of people like you
You appeal to authority as you assume everyone else is beneath you. Labeling tryhards or elitists, people who give try and tested advices just because you don't like them and "it's now how you did it".

I'm sure you know what are you really here for, you may have grown as an artist but you're maturity shows.

>>1753666
no please show us the results of your methods

>>1753637
learning to digitally paint is easy
learning the fundamentals is hard.

A lot of people like OP come here looking for the magic words or for a shortcut, too concentrated on the mediums and style, rather than the basics. Devote nine years to the fundamentals and you won't have to defend embarrassing before and afters.

>>1753669

Why do people always say "show me your arts" in an argument of shit flinging? You know they aren't going to, it will only hurt their image. The blessing of being anonymous.

>>1753666
No please show us the results of your methods since you clearly know better than everyone else

>>1753672
you know, if you are going to give advice on how to improve it makes sense to show examples of how it worked

>>1753670
>learning to digitally paint is easy
>learning the fundamentals is hard

neither of these are true

>>1753677
>neither of these are true

Oh really? Please do go on...

>>1753687
fundamentals can be learned just be having fun painting. No need to bore yourself to death with studies.

>digital painting is easy
Please again, if it's so easy then clearly everyone here must be a master at it. People that says this are naive, ignorant, and generally bad at painting anyways.

>>1753689
>fundamentals can be learned just be having fun painting. No need to bore yourself to death with studies.

Never said you can't have fun, but doodling without structured practice will only make your progress much slower and much more difficult. Art is a lifelong journey, but the quicker you can understand how to construct and render, the better the journey becomes and the more time you'll have for creating things as you see them in your mind.

>Please again, if it's so easy then clearly everyone here must be a master at it. People that says this are naive, ignorant, and generally bad at painting anyways.

Beginners fail at digital painting because they generally don't understand how to render at all in any medium, not because it's soooo difficult to learn to use a tablet.

as the saying goes - a poor craftsman blames his tools

>>1752557
Because they can't explain it; they see the shapes in three dimensions and place them according to so. I used to think the same way, but the more I drew boxes and spheres in perspective and relation to each other and combining them the better I got at constructing gesture and then form. The spheres and boxes are simply to train your spacial analysis on a 2d medium.

The gesture itself is to get proportions, balance, and a bit of anatomy there before you start getting in with the details.

>>1752512
I keep enterting this thread because of that cute fucking picture. Then I decided I wanted to make one too, so here it is.

>>1754834
Loomis

>>1754834
wtf I thought I was the only one

OP,
>Boxes, cylinders, sphere
>Gestures
>anatomy
>git gud niga

>>1752512
>Whats the fuckin secret already.

May I suggest you to read the ImagineFX Anatomy Special?
It's one hundred pages of condensed stuff, and it may be the kind of thing you're looking for.

>>1752576
>You can't just immediately bypass the learning stage and get to that level.

Why not?

This is 2014, where self-help vidya are full of guys who learn how to play the ukulele in 20 hours, to speak chinese in a month or to memorize 48 cards in a minute.

>>1754881
>learn how to play the ukulele in 20 hours, to speak chinese in a month or to memorize 48 cards in a minute.

Those type of things are usually shit though.

>tfw the only thing i want to draw is dragons
>if im not drawing dragons i dont even want to hear the word draw

The 'lines go there' because it's anatomy. Look up photo references to practice drawing bodies and such.

>>1752917
>I mean that he started out "ok-ish"
Don't let the image fool you. Just because that's an example of his early work that he was proud enough to finish, doesn't mean this is what his drawings looked like when he first started drawing. If you were to go back in time to doodles in his school notebook or even crayon drawings, there'd still be visible progression from that point in time to 2005.

The fact that the 2005 image is digital should be enough evidence. He probably already showed interest in drawing which warranted the tablet purchase.

The most simple thing I can give you OP is this.....

Don't draw lines. Construct things within the 3-D world that your paper is a window to. See your image in full 3d in your brain. Not in the "pop-out at you" way movies do it, but 3d in the same way you can pick up an object and spin it in your hand. Don't worry about how something SHOULD look, focus on how it DOES look.

I still love that /ic/ thinks they can improve to pro levels in a year... despite literally every pro artist take on average 6-7 years to "git gud"

OP, art is like losing weight
When you first start out, its hard, and you see little to no progress. But when you keep at it for a while, you start to see results.
Sure, you may get to a point where you say "This is good enough" But you don't stop there, you continue to keep at it.

>>1754994
I thought you lose weight faster the more fat you are...

>>1754994
Very well-put.

>>1754996
this

art is like pooping, it starts out hard, and you see little to no poop. But when you keep at it for a while, you start to see results. you may get to a point where you say "This is good enough" But you don't stop there with the poop just dangling halfway out, you continue to keep at it.

>>1754996
Not that anon but though that's true, the fatter you are the less endurance you have while exercising. Plus you gain muscle over time, and muscle burns fat fast. It's why it's still good to do some minor strength training in addition to cardio depending on your body type and what you want.

>>1755006

this

art is like this anons sister, she starts out tight as I made my way through her, and I felt it was hard to keep pushing. But when I kept at it for a while, I started to see results. I got to the point where I said "This is pretty loose" but I didn't stop there with the dick just going in and out, I continued to keep at it.

>>1752512
You're delusional mate.

>>1755015

>>1754834
LOOMIS

>>1752522
They may not mannequize it unless it's a very difficult pose but trust me they're thinking about all of that perspective in their head. And most artists I know including myself start with gesture. Stylized disney characters start out as rough gestures before they are "tied down."

For your question about appeal, that is learned through time as your taste develops but it's also from paying attention to stuff like shape language, straights vs curves, etc. Pick up a character design book.

-Animation student

>>1754960
Do your studies off of Skyrim and Drakengard.

>>1755006
>>1755015
OP, these guys have the right idea.

My advice sounds like it's making fun of you, but I swear I'm not. Have you tried going through deviantArt tutorials? They're pretty much what you're looking for.

You could also go full Satan and "learn" through tracing.

>>1752734
thank you!

>>1752734
This is hard for me because if I stay away from media that makes me happy I get fixated on muslims and chinese trying to take over the world and shit

>>1755127
I imagine that's part of the media you're supposed to turn off. Stop following the news, if it's really important someone will tell you about it.

Don't worry about Muslims or Chinamen taking over the world, even if they could or would or do there's not a thing you can do about it. This sort of shit is for idle minds, you're supposed to be too busy for that.

>>1755096
>Do your studies off of Skyrim and Drakengard.
>2 limbed dragons

>>1752512
There is no secret. See that pic you posted? I bet he used some sort of gesture, perspective grid, 3d forms or some sort of construction to draw that. There is no easy way you dumb ass. Once you learn these things, they become natural for you. So that's maybe why you see people in speed paints just going into drawing that pretty animu waifu girl because they are so used to it. They know where the lines go. But to know where these lines go, you need to fucking learn the fundamentals. So read the stick and stop whining you little bitch ass faggot. Good luck.

>>1755096
I bet she can kill people with that chin

>>1752588
Isn't that the point?

Do i quit school for art, /ic/? I don't want to be an engineer or a doctor, I just want to draw and create things.
Should I switch out of a STEM major so that I can hunker down, hermit mode, and draw for a couple years or more nonstop?

>>1752512
you either have to develop an actual or instinctive understanding of structure before shit looks right.

Copy the shit you wanna draw and think about why certain lines go where they do. The reasoning is usually that the lines illustrate underlying form, which can be as simplified/abstracted as you want

>>1752512
The secret?

Practice

Go back to drawing your boxes.

The secret is shitloads of practice.
You don't like drawing boxes? Well then fucking draw what you want.
I draw smut, personally.

>>1752522
and in order to be able to draw that in ten minutes, the artist had to practice.
That sketch isn't the result of ten minutes shitting around with a tablet; it's the result of months or years of practice and work PLUS ten minutes of shitting around on a tablet

watch 17 hours of glen vilpuu vids then everyone on facebook will start calling you the Master!

>>1755493
Go away

Why did such a stupid topic blow up like this? It's only three days old and the autosage threshold is approaching fast.

>>1755505
no

>>1754960
>drawing dragons
>wings, how the fuck do they work?
>those qt tails
>christ why does it look like barney
I'm pretty much the same as you Anon, I've drawn nothing but hundreds of dragons and wolves in my sketchbook for the last 2 years.

>>1755555
>drawn nothing but hundreds of dragons and wolves in my sketchbook for the last 2 years.
>hundreds of dragons and wolves in my sketchbook for the last 2 years.
>hundreds of dragons and wolves for the last 2 years.
>hundreds of dragons and wolves for 2 years.
>hundreds for 2 years.

>>1755560
I don't really draw much more than a sketch or two a day. I haven't been able to get myself into that 'art kick' mood.

>>1755563
Look, you are basically staring into your own life from the point of view of your own inevitable death and this is one of the memories you want to have presented?
Duuude, two years!
Remember how you have gotten good at masturbating!
How long it didn't take you to master because INSTANT FUN AT YOUR FINGER TIPS!! ON DEMAND!! CHEAP CHEAP!!

Art could be this as well. Feel me?

>>1755566

>Remember how you have gotten good at masturbating!

what...

>>1755568
Sometimes it take a bit of exploring and really getting to know yourself to climax, Anon.

>>1755568
Oh god damnit, Barbara! Then you tell the kid!
I just wanted to tell the little brat that when things are fun, you get easily better at doing them.

I swear to God, Barbara, one of these days..

>>1755555
>>wings, how the fuck do they work?
seriously oh god wings are so hard jesus christ

>>1755575

>fins, how the fuck do they work?

seriously oh god fins are so hard jesus christ

>>1755577
wow no bully

>>1755575
They're just arms with tiny palms and long fingers.

>>1755584
yes and dragons are just lizard snake horse hybrids with wings but that doesnt make them any easier to draw silly

>>1755251
you know nothing jon snow

>>1755251
you might as well complain that the eyelashes are not fuzzy enough, the nose doesn't have enough definition and in general it doesn't look like a person from life; or you could just admit that you don't understand cartoons, i.e. an idiot.

you really want to know the secret to making effortlessly good art? Its simple really, all you need to do is study and practice to the point where you don't need to look for that secret anymore.

>>1755863
YES

>>1754881
those are called liars and scams

>>1755006
That made me laugh my ass off, thank you .

>>1755006
Please let this be the new Kenichi Smith.

>>1755096
>Guide to draw a head.
>In 2D space.
Funny.

>>1755587
I actually found the fact you mentioned horse hilarious since I once tried to convince a friend that dragons have horse heads. That what you meant?

And it kinda does make it easier to draw if you can relate it to your own body.

>>1756507
I mean dragons in general have many similarities to horses that you can draw from

>>1754986

Wrong.

>/ic/
>spending hours drawing naked dudes
>drawing naked dudes in real life
>drawing like they can reconstruct from sight
>reading books about how to draw
>drawing things upside down

Think about it this way, OP. You can only draw what you can imagine. If you cannot create it in your mind's eye, then how can you put it down on paper? Listen to these guys when they tell you to practice, but practice drawing what you see in your head, not what your eyes see, because your eyes lie to your brain.

Don't draw things how you think they should look, draw how you KNOW things look, and I promise your drawings will get better. This advice does not promote perfection, only improvement.

Like you said, all you want to do is draw weeaboo stuff, so draw it how you think it should look. Don't worry about proportion or foreshortening, just draw what you see in your mind. Concentration is crucial. Turn off the music, turn off the tv, clear your mind of everything but the image you want to recreate on the paper and create it.

If the first result isn't any good, keep trying. Try again, but try like you mean it, compare the results, then come back and tell me I was wrong if you can.

>>1756516
>Don't draw things how you think they should look
>so draw it how you think it should look
im confus

You know what... I've made up my mind. Fuck learning how to draw. It's not worth the effort to me.

>>1756522
look at things that draw then look draw and see look draw see?

>>1756531
You learn by doing what you want to do, and figuring out solutions to your problems when things don't look right.

IF YOUR FIRE IS FADED
AND YOU CAN'T FEEL IT NO MORE
IF YOU'RE TIRED AND OVERRATED
LET ME SHOW YOU TO THE DOOR
EXPECT NO SYMPATHY
THERE'S NONE TO BE HAD
OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE
THERE'S NO ROOM FOR THE WANNABEES,
THE HAS BEENS OR THE BAD

>>1756547

This. Aint no pity party for you, son. If you don't have passion then you should quit while you're ahead.

>>1752512
>I'm not stupid, I know how to draw a fuckin box and a cylinder

Then fucking do it. Put down your base structure and make a body out of that.

It doesn't look right? Your proportions and perspective are probably wrong and you have to keep practicing those things till it comes naturally. That's why people draw gestures. To practice. It's really that fucking simple.

>>1752512
watch knkl on YouTube, he is exactly what your describing. However, he does use real life contouring and depth with shadows.

>>1753236
Not him, but why aren't you practicing if you have so much time to troll? Are you just too lazy yourself and now take it out on people that are actually good? Or are you really just autistic?

>>1756583
>implying writing a one line retort can't be done while practicing
you're more stupid than I thought

>>1756583
ya just gotta ignore that guy. He literally replies to anything I post on here.

I think he just has a crush he doesn't know how to properly express

>>1752588
>You can make that thing "fit" like 90% of images.
That is your first lesson in composition.

>>1756844
Oops left my name on from another thread.

>>1752512

The 4chan hivemind has to please as many members of itself as possible, which it does by parroting a close-minded, middle of the road solution. It's actually quite hilarious to see something as lofty as visual art be reduced to rote grinding.

The "secret" is you have to like what you do, even if you think it's shit. If you want to make skrillex wubs you don't need to endlessly practice scales and arpeggios on a piano. If you follow /ic/'s advice, you're only working to please /ic/.

You're in the wrong place anon.

>>1756853
You're right, op should be happy drawing like a retarded 11 year old for the rest of his life. how to draw "well" will just come to him as if by magic one day, if he believes, just like I'm sure it did for you! Grinding is useless, just ask Timmeh or Applefinder.

I know that OP is an idiot but I do admit that I drawing is really hard to get into. I always thought that drawing would be something fun. But it's actually hard work. What shocks me the most is how long it takes until one is able to produce anything decent. Does our brain really learn so slowly?

>>1756583
It's no mystery that you don't have the reading comprehension to keep track on the conversation when your arguments are as retarded as that.

>>1756858
>Applefinder

His name is allggenppfflleggger. You'll get used to it.

> Pic related
> Or not

>>1756868
aw you think your opinion matters. So kawaii

>>1756869
anime is clearly winning, naturalism no match.

>>1756869
No his name is Applefinger.

>>1756889
typical dumb American.

>>1756891
>Appledinger detected

>>1756900
>dumb American detected

>>1756869
Despite knowing what his name is, I still read it as "Apple Flinger" e'ry time.

>>1752519
lol my first drawing book was by katy coop too
those were the days
the ignorant ignorant days

post thighs

>>1752547
Jokes on you a face is a bunch of shapes.

>>1754960

>>1756096

Self-help is bullshit.

But a man can really memorize a fuckton of cards in a small time, you just have to train regularly. It's not like memorizing the first thousand digits of Pi (and there are people who're able to pull that shit off, too).

So, there must be ways to train ourselves to be better at learning/memorizing. I'm just not sure if they are known/proven yet (exercices like the n-back memory training is more than controversial).

Also, why are so many d/ic/ks obsessed by getting good as fast as possible? Youre all dying in 2015 or something?

>>1758553
wat

>>1755096
Does learning through tracing even work?

>>1758560
Friend, it's not that they're concerned about getting good as fast as possible, it's that they want to spend more time creating work that they like and appreciate without worrying about lack of skill, training, or craftsmanship.

It's really that simple.

If someone told you that you could acquire a good, well rounded artist skill-set in a matter of a month or two, wouldn't you want that? Probably.

On the other hand, practicing with a good regime would produce that same result, in the same time, depending on the person's aptitude of course. Though that's a bit irrelevant, considering OP's demeanor.

>>1758739
This. You can become proficient at art relatively soon, all depends on how much you work at it, like anything. Mastering things though will take a whoooole lot longer. But you don't have to grind forever. Pretty standard course of action is to grind for a couple of years to get to a decent professional level, and then get work, and study in whatever free time you have.

And I think that even if you were to continue grinding full time on studies and such your rate of improvement would drop. It's like the levels in any game, you can get to level ten fast as fuck, have to actually try to hit level 50, but by the time you get to like level 300, it'll take ages to hit 301.

General rule of thumb OP is that the people who enjoy the journey for the sake of it are the ones who go the furthest.

>>1753181
>tfw never believe in self

>>1758553
wat

>>1758646
It is possible to learn a few things through a few tracing exercises, but that's usually for people who are already along their way. Beginners won't learn jackshit.

For starters, it can help you see any visual biases you have (tend to skew faces, eyes too big, nose too long, etc) if you trace something after you studied it. To reinforce what you learn you'd probably have to do the study again the manual way.

The bigger thing you can learn through tracing is line control and efficiency. Instead of just copying along contours, you place your marks as you normally should when drawing: simplifying where necessary, thinking about forms and which ones overlap, adding emphasis, etc.

For most people's purposes, and considering the average quality of work on this board, it's best to just avoid tracing if you fear it could become a habit or you'd rely on it too much for everything. A good rule to follow is: If you aren't critically thinking about what you're doing, then you're probably just wasting time.

bump for more midna

Jeez.