/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

do things irl have multiple scratchy lines?

>>1737057

why not just erase the chicken scratches afterwards ?

>>1737058
why not just draw straight lines in the first place?

>>1737058
Takes longer. Of course you can do it and except for you nobody would know it. But time is money and professional artists like money.
Also most people think it does look better.

>>1737059
because youre going to have to erase them anyway since you dont get it right first time , especially if you are a beginner

you don't really think that the point of art to recreate real life do you?

>>1737061
if you want to do it then by all means go ahead. if u in photoshop u can just new layer draw over with paths.

drawing straight lines comes with understanding what your drawing.

you lok at point A and point b and you know one line needs to be drawn between the two.

>>1737064
*is to recreate real life

>>1737057
lol

>>1737064
thats not the point of art almost all sources say this
"the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

A skilled draftsman's lines are smooth and confident, not scratchy or unsure.
Chicken scratching is unpleasant to look at, it shows that the person is not particularly good at controlling their lines. It usually results in inaccurate suggestion of forms, values and structure.

>>1737069
shut the fuck up you pretentious faggot

chicken scratch looks dope

people just tell you no because they're actually care what other people think about their art (which usually means they suck anyways)

>>1737070
He's right, though. Most pros, who draw a lot. have clear, confident lines, which are great to look at. Deal with it

>>1737073

>>1737058
What makes you think that you could draw confident, nice looking final lines if you never get rid of your chicken scratch habit?

>>1737070
>>1737075
stop posting

>>1737078

fuck outta my thread, samefagging hipster

>>1737069

>Draftsman

>Fine artist

You know those are totally different things right?

>>1737076
because you go over the chicken scratch with a confident line once you get the placement and guidance right from the chicken scratch


or are you too retarded to comprehend that ?

>>1737080

lol hes just trying to sound clever , hes probably still copying the heads from "fun with a pencil"

>>1737082
But you can't draw confident lines, which is why you use chicken scratch. Otherwise you could just draw a sketch with good line work. That doesn't mean the sketch needs to be super clean or anything. You know what, forget it. I really see no point trying to confince some shit tier beginner why a shit tier beginner drawing habit is a bad thing to have. I wish you good luck with your improvement.

i'd say that not chicken scratching is always better than chicken scratching.
not everything is considered chicken scratching though.

chicken scratching is when you use several lines to do what should be just one or a few lines.

let's take drawing a circle for example:
if you draw the circle in one line, it's not chicken scratching.
even if you use 2, 3 or more lines, it still may not be CS.
but if you use any more than that, it shows that you're not really able to follow the form of theobject you're drawing.
it's the same with the circle and it's the same principle with more complex objects too.

redoing lines to add information is not chicken scratching btw

Chicken scratching is overthinking a line. It prevents your work from being fluid.

I'd consider myself pretty confident in lines; my linework is one of the strongest points and selling features of my art, but I still chicken scratch a lot in my concept sketches so that I can spitball different poses, different textures and line widths, etc. What's wrong with not using confident lines when you're NOT confident in what you're drawing? I find them really helpful to early on drawing.

>>1737344
Then you're probably not chicken scratching. It's only chicken scratching when you're not putting much thought to the lines and connect them in an unsure, unfocused fuzzy manner without suggesting anything at all.
It's okay to chicken scratch if you're not confident, but work to be confident with your lines.

How can I avoid chicken scratch? Any good practices?

>>1737387
Pin or tape a huge piece of newsprint to the wall, attach your pencil to a long stick and stand a few feet back fron the wall while you draw.

100% serious, this is a teaching technique at RAFA

>>1737390
But I won't be drawing like this everytime, my posture will be different when I draw on a tablet or a sketchbook. Does it matter?

>>1737392
Far less than you think.

>>1737392
>>1737393
In fact, this is just an extreme version of teaching students to draw from their shoulder by pasting their papers to the wall. That's been used since time immemorial; the pencil on a stick just reinforces the lessons and makes it impossible to draw with your hand muscules.

>>1737393
>>1737394
Alright, I'll give it a shot. Thanks.

>>1737056
it look amateurish (you can't clearly make a statement about the form you trying to show) and can obfuscate the clarity of a drawing (particulary complicated one) . In the grand scheme of thing it's not particulary bad, but it tend to denote low drawing skill when it's the only way you can draw.

chicken scratching comes from an attempt to get that gesture look without using the brainwork required to do real gestures.

>>1737082
Are you stupid? If you couldn't draw the lines in the first place why can you do it now?

Chicken Scratch "Lines" will be extremely thick which means to get a final thin line and make the form still look good you have to know what you are doing, which if you did you wouldn't do chicken scratch in the first place.

- if you're working in any sort of team environment where other people have to use your drawings, chicken scratch adds a lot of uncertain lines and people wouldn't know which lines you mean to use and which lines to discard. This applies to storyboarding, inking, concept art, and probably tons of other stuff.
- chicken scratch slows you down. Instead of one good line, you draw ten bad ones. This applies to any work where time is limited, i.e. all work.
- chicken scratch usually (but not always) weakens the pose, expression, or flow you're trying to create or capture.

So chicken scratch has its place for conveying chaos or confusion or roughness, but it's pretty limited.

Don't make shit complicated

>>1737056
It isn't.

>>1737057
W-what?
Things irl have no lines at all.

>>1737917
Now, I'm going to have to add to this a bit without it conflicting hopefully, but I find it better not to just place one line but to use the line you place and sort of paint over it and keep it going with easing in and out to keep things from getting to stiff. Seems a lot of the pros use this method and I'm starting to use it myself. This requires line weight, but confidence doesn't seem to be a factor. You can freely find and feel the form without it breaking into chicken scratch lines. I feel like if you aren't using ink this is the superior method of doing things.

I've been trying to draw from the shoulder in the last few days, practiced with a lot of lines and circles, things like that. I don't know if I'm improving, but I do know that it starts to hurt after a short while. Am I doing it wrong? I mostly try to not limit my arm and wrist movement, by not placing my hand on the table (or anything) and trying to keep the pen angle at 90 degrees from the surface.

Chicken scratching is bad because it's a sign for inexperience. You don't know how to draw whatever it is you're trying to draw so you dance around it. Almost any beginner artist does this while almost no pros do.
If you have the ability for clear and confident mark-making you won't chicken scratch.
And I'm pretty sure that anyone who says he prefers chicken scratching because it looks good does it because they can't draw anyhow else.

>>1739227
Perfectly stated.

Wait is chicken scratching referring to drawing or words? Is this chicken scratching?

>>1739312
No, that's not.

Chicken scratching is when you repeatedly draw lines without precision or confidence, AKA don't know what you're doing with your pencil.

>tfw quite a few of my sketches are chicken scatch

Im confident that I don't need to but for quick sketches is it bad?

>>1739327
clear lines are better but if you can't do it don't force it. especially in sketching, you should do what you feel comfortable with.
maybe try to slowly steer yourself in the right direction.

>>1739327
This looks great, very masterful, don't let the idiots in this thread tell you otherwise.

The fact that you even have to ask this shows you need to put down your pencil and find another hobby. Damn.

You want to feel so justified in being a shit artist you're putting the people on deviantart to shame.

>>1739226
People often misunderstand what it means to draw with your whole arm. They think you should train to draw with your shoulder all the time to get better at drawing when in reality it works in the opposite direction. The better you get at drawing the better you get at using your arm efficiently (if you use your head, this isn't some magical shounen shit where your resistance goes up after a near death experience).

Doing that exercise is a waste of time.

(Except you paid a private teacher and he told you to do exactly that.)

>>1739348

thanks

>>1737083
speaking of which, what exactly IS a draftsman

>>1739226
Why the 90 degrees? I know some tutorial give this as advise in their exercises on lines, but when you're not doing those exercises you should hold the pencil in easiest way possible.

I use wrist when doing small details, and whole arm when doing the major parts. Hold the pencil like a sword when doing the initial skeching or geisture. These all vary from person to person. Just remember; if it hurts, it's probably wrong.

>>1740342
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=draftsman

>you have to draw everything in one clean stroke the first time or it's chicken scratch
>people actually believe this

Line economy for the most part is irrelevant bullshit. The sad thing is, many artists today think a poorly constructed drawing with clean line work is better than a beautiful, well constructed drawing that just happened to use for than a few lines. Going over and using multiple lines to define the form is not chicken scratch. In these drawings, there is a thought process. The form is being searched for and found, weight is added, construction is done; the whole drawing has a three-dimensional quality that shows the artist was thinking around the subject, not just giving a 2D representation of what they envisioned. Chicken scratch is mindlessly throwing a bunch of lines on a page and hoping the drawing somewhat resembles the subject you are drawing. But even then, the latter with a style like that can be fundamentally sound. It doesn't matter how many lines it took to make a drawing; a good drawing is a good drawing.

I'm tired of supercilious retards on this board trying to push their personal aesthetics as fact.

>>1740398
That image is not chicken scratch
Chicken scratch in drawing is equivalent to bad handwriting, it doesn't matter how good the content is, it'll look ugly and be hard to read

>>1740398
chicken scratch is bad. The image you posted is not chicken scratch. It's lines building value.

Chicken scratch is superfluous lines

I need some help in understanding how to not fall back into chicken scratch sketching. I've been looking at artists like Kim Jung Gi and I've been trying to put my lines down confidently the first time. I have been drawing for some time now and I need to know if there are any other resources on this that anyone knows about.

>>1740415
To continue, this is what's gotten me so frustrated as I'm not sure what I should be doing for sketching. I usually don't think about what my hand is doing and I focus on what I want the drawing to look like, but this thread is giving me doubts.

I don't know if what I am doing is chicken-scratch or not but it feels comfortable when I'm doing it, is that wrong?

>rules
>art

pick one

>>1741804
>art
>drawings that actually look good

pick one

>>1740415
>>1740427
don't let it bother you too much.
the point it, you'll get better the more you draw. right now you couldn't improve your lines even if you focused on it. it will only make you more self conscious.
so yeah, keep focusing on what you're drawing instead of what kind of lines you're making

>>1741982
>implying art can't look good
picasso plz go

>>1737056
Poor form; while it's entirely possible to erase the scratchiness in order to get cleaner lines elements of it will likely stay there. Also, scratched up guidelines are much harder to read from than not-scratchy ones; even if you're the one making them, so in the rough phase it'd still be better to try and avoid chickenscratch.

You can't do it dirty, ya gotta keep it clean.

Is it wrong that I let myself be chicken-scratchy until I do a layer of lineart?

>>1737056
this is why

>>1737056
To get to the other side