/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>1447997
Why don't you try?

>>1447997
depends how good your teacher is

>>1448000

I would love to but I don't know if it is possible.

>>1448003

Good point.
We can say it's nonexistant.

>>1448004
>>1448005

Fun Fact:

Drawing only needs talent.
Not to mention you need to be very young to use that talent.

Otherwise it's impossible.

I'm sorry OP. It's a scientific fact.

>>1447997
It take years. It also takes other things that ic wants to believe doesn't exist.

>>1448007

Impossible. There are too many subjects to cover, intense work will exhaust you faster than you think. If you think you can fit an artist's schedule with no proper training you are dead wrong.

>>1448009
>>1448007

Those are bad news indeed.

>>1448007
>>1448009

>>1448011

In the Grimdarkness of IRL there are no nice things.

Sigh.

Just draw for a month and see if you have a talent.

Also a picture to get you even more depressed.

>>1448005
well then it will probably take a while to get good. it's hard to speed up the process a lot without a teacher because it's mainly a process of discovery.

like for example, say you're learning to paint, now in painting when you're tinting a color you always mix that color into white instead of mixing white into the color, it makes it so much quicker and easier, and a teacher will tell you that on like the first day, but how long would it take you to discover that yourself? and there's like thousands of things like that, many of which won't be mentioned in most books, or you might skip over them. you might spend all your time reinventing the wheel!

best thing to do is latch onto someone who's style you like and bug them into helping you as much as possible, or just go on some short courses to learn the basics.

>>1448020

Long hours for the long hours god.
Bad wages for the bad wage throne.

>>1448018

That's a good idea.
I wish I could collect enough guts to do that.
I learn fast and love experimenting but I just feel to " exposed " when I draw.

Considering I see my life long dreams vanish.

>>1448022

I wish I had that option.
But thanks!

>>1448020
... How long does this guy last before collapsing? Does he breakdown at 35? He doesn't seem to get enough sleep.

>>1448023
It's Japan.

Suicide or heart attack from overwork is considered retirment.

Thanks for the answers everybody.

I guess it can't be done. Which is rather unfortunate for me.

>>1448032
>I guess it can't be done
So, you're not even going to try? Just because of a few comments?

>>1448035

I really don't know how I could try.
Also I always value the opinion of others over mine.

The entirety of this thread is a mess. I can't even tell who's trolling any more.
OP, if you're serious about getting good at drawing, you have to be ready to put in enough hours. You'll have to draw and draw and draw. Not just mindless doodling, but actually wrapping your mind around a multitude of concepts (line weight, perspective, anatomy, colour theory, metric tons of them), then trying to apply them, then failing, then trying again and again getting a bit better every time. Fuck talent. You'll never get better at anything, be it learning a foreign language, fencing, chess, or drawing, if you don't go through consonant, mind-numbing practice.
If you're not a troll, pick up that pencil.

>>1448044

OK!
I'll try what I can and pray for not failing.

>>1448047
Just follow the Sticky dude!

>>1448048

Will do.

>>1448047
>I'll try what I can and pray for not failing.
The thing is, it won't give immediate results. There'll be times when you realise how shit your art is. Everyone has this moment. Most people quit at that stage. Those who keep working no matter how discouraging the results, actually get better.
Keep at it and follow the sticky.

>>1448054
Yeah.
Luckily I won't upload it anywhere or anything.

>>1448055
If you get stuck, some input might really help. That's why getting into a community is important. IC, #unmotivated losers, Crimson Daggers, etc There's lots of places. IC will be blunt and harsh, but that's why it's good. If you look past the trolls and such, you can find something of worth. Just don't get lost and abandon drawing for browsing /ic, as most here seem to do.

>>1447997
Also, looking the OP, I have to question your standards. What do you mean by "good" and "insane efforts"? Regardless, a few months is a really short period of time. Moreover, forcing yourself through 12 hours a day with no prior practice is unhealthy and will not lead anywhere.

>>1448059
Yeah.
Don't worry I don't look at art too much anymore.

>>1448061
Let's see.
Good as in average.
Like I could get some liking for my pics and stuff like that.

Well I don't have 12 hours anymore, sadly I kinda got a life now at least a job.

Like 4-5 hours every day and more in the weekend is the plan. Of course I can't draw, so I can't draw that much.

'heh

>>1448065
That sounds like a plan. Go for it. Make sure to give yourself brakes every now and then so as not to burn out.

>>1448066
Yes. I have that in mind.

Can i start drawing with a tablet right of the bat or should i focus on pen & paper first? I plan on working mainly digitally in the future (if i ever get good, lol).

I am currently going through The New Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain (with pen & paper) and after that i plan on reading Fun With A Pencil. But when do i know that i am ready for it? The Sticky says that after going through either The New Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain or Keys To Drawing i should start drawing Objects from Life, but when do i know that i have reached a level where i can start with Loomis?

Also, i am a bit surprised, because i thought that especially the beginner books would focus more on exercises where you have to draw the basic geometric shapes and doing some line exercises, but they don't seem to go through these kind of things.

>>1448078

Not OP.

>>1448078
I learn with tablet and pencil. But using tablet is harder and can drop your skill considerably until you get used to it. Some people can get used to it in a week i still can't get used it to it after many months though.

>>1448078
Drawing on the right side of the brain teaches you to see the world in a different way, thus forcing you out of symbol drawing, which is why it's good for beginners. Loomis' fun with a pencil teaches basics of construction.
Look for line confidence exercises after you've done it so that you start right from the very beginning. Peter Han's video is very good. Make sure not go whizz through it and do all the line exercises, preferably regularly.
Study perspective (Norling, gnomon training, Ctrl+Paint, Scott Robertson techniques vol.1, etc). Apply it to your life drawing, by practising with objects that can be broken down to basic forms (books, mugs, phones).
Should be enough for now. Image is a guildeline.

>>1448082
I'm not the one you are replying to but I have a similar question.

Are pencils outdated? I'm on a tight budget indefinitely so I can only afford pencil and paper.

It seems like everybody is using digital nowadays.

It's kinda disheartening.

>>1448078
If you plan on using a tablet in your future career, then it may be beneficial to learn it as soon as possible. Drawing on a tablet certainly takes time to get used to.
HOWEVER, it is still drawing, all the same principles apply, so perhaps you should focus on pen and pencil for now, so that the confusion caused by your work sucking because don't know how to draw doesn't get mixed up with the confusion caused by you not being used to the tablet. The former takes years to get rid of. The latter is a matter of weeks-months.

>>1448085

/ic/ prefers new people to start with pencil and paper

>>1448088

That's cool. But can it stand up to the digital stuff?
I'm kinda afraid that my efforts will be in vain because I smudge carbon on paper.

Silly me, I guess.
I was told many times that digital is the only thing worth doing.

>>1448089
just fucking draw, or dont, jesus christ

>>1448089

After you get a good grip on the fundamentals you can do whatever the fuck you want

>>1448083
Thanks, i'll give it a try

>>1448090
Don't read it if you don't like it.
I prefer my decisions to be made when I know what I am doing.

>>1448091

That's all.
Thanks a lot.

As for how long, it depends on the person. Just draw, fagit.

>>1448007
Someone hasn't put in those 10,000 hours...

Who believes this 10k hour rule?

>>1448247
It's a theoretical code to live by, it's not to be taken as literal truth. Only idiots treat the 10,000 hour rule as an infallible guide to becoming a master.

>>1448089
You should focus on managing traditional media before diving completely into digital.

>>1448022
>when you're tinting a color you always mix that color into white instead of mixing white into the color
Isn't this common sense? I don't understand why you would need a teacher for this?

The problem isn't that you can't get good within a few months with insane amounts of effort. That could be possible if you already have some experience to start and "a few months" is 10 months.

The problem is really finding the motivation and the time to make this extreme effort happen.

well by "good" do you mean by /ic/ standards or being able to draw decently

>Wanting to get insanely good in a few months

You'd have to be practicing 8-9 hours a day to see improvement in such a small amount of time. Your art wouldn't be "good" either, it would just be a lot better than those who practice a lot less than you.


Why set yourself up for failure like this anyway? If you start drawing so much so early, you're going to burn yourself out in a few days. Start slow and realize art is not a race; it's a marathon.

Start with 1 hour, then when you feel comfortable add 30 minutes. Keep adding a little more time when you feel comfortable with your current schedule.

>>1448007
>Drawing only needs talent.
Any skill requires "talent" and "talent" depends on a number of factors.

>Not to mention you need to be very young to use that talent.
Opinion invalidated by your stupidity.

>>1448054
>Those who keep working no matter how discouraging the results, actually get better.
I like this.

Talent is bull. I was born with the talent to draw, so I know. Listen to Betty. She will set you up right.

>>1448055

Don't be afraid to show your progress, even in the face of douches. Other people can more readily help you tell what's bothering you in a piece, what you're doing well, and things you didn't notice you screwed up. Just take their advice with a grain of salt. Some things are down to personal preferences (most aren't though) and if you try to please everyone you won't.

>>1448089

As for smudging, your hand shouldn't be on the paper anyways. Draw from the shoulder, not the wrist. It will make your life (and your art) so much easier.

There is no difference in skill between traditional work and digital work. People have long sought to build up a mysticism about either, where there is none. Do either or none, it does not matter. They are a means to an end, not some Tibetian stair ritual.

>>1448448

I agree. Art, like any skill, takes time to develop. If you try too hard all at once, you'll end up with a kiddie pool full of your disappointment.

Drawing is not a talent, nor is it a gift. Those who work hard get good. Those who flounder about discussing it could have spent that time drawing. That said, whenever you feel yourself getting discouraged, it's totally okay to reach out to others for your validation.

(cont)

Also it's totally fun to look through galleries of bad art, like so: http://fucknodeviantart.tumblr.com/<wbr> Their suckiness comes not from their newness, but their unwillingness to change their formula to actually learn how to draw. Look at the bases. Look at the colors. Look at the way they stick to their "style." Look at their staunch position on not accepting criticism. A judge at a recent gallery show I was in (didn't win anything, sadly) stated that people don't like criticism because they feel like it's criticizing themselves, rather than their art. Make sure to see that distinction. Most people want you to improve. Some, of course, may just have a cheeto stuck up their butt or something, or feel threatened by new people. I can't post the thread to the Concept Art dude who started out not being able to draw a square because the forum's down, but look up "Concept Art thread improvement" in like a week and read his story. Anyone can draw. Anyone can learn. It just takes a willingness to work hard and listen.

Also read through the sticky. It's full of good stuff. Good luck on your journey of art, friend. Make sure to stick around, so we have more people wanting to learn here.

ctrlpaint.com is full of good stuff too. http://ctrlpaint.com/blog/this-will-be-hard-work

The image from the previous post is from here:http://kuridoki.deviantart.com/art/Before-After-Meme-260324302
The image from this post is from here: http://kuridoki.deviantart.com/art/Drew-it-again-348075841

It takes a long time to improve, and even the best of artists still need improvement. Just look at dem boobsocks. Dang.

Did anybody here start later? like around age 18+?

>>1448950
im 18 and starting, i want to get to the art college

>>1448950
>>1448980
I'm 21 and want to get into art school, and then live off my art.

>>1448980
>>1448987
Besides drawing, what are you guys doing in the meantime?

>>1448991
I used to be in college. I'm just a neet now.

>>1448992
How do you get by? Are you living with your parents?

>>1448993
Yeah. Thankfully they can support me.

Drawing is too hard. You can't fix your mistakes. Painting is easier. Painting is superior to drawing. Painting is King of fine art.
If you really gotta draw, then draw with prismacolor nupastels. Nupastels allow a little bit of revision and drawing over previous layers.
You don't need to be good in drawing in order to be good in painting. They are two totally different things.

>>1449006
Why not getting good at both?

>>1449010
(I am from South Korea, not North Korea)
Drawing is too physically demanding. When you are getting into the details your head gets closer to the paper and your neck hurts. Not just your neck, when you are drawing something big, you gotta do it on the floor because desk is too small. Your back hurts, your legs hurt, your neck hurts, etc.
With painting though you sit comfortably on a chair and move your brush over the canvas facing you and sitting on an easel.

>>1449018
>(I am from South Korea, not North Korea)
Who cares?

>>1449022
I had to explain because the previous commentor uploaded pic of North Korean propaganda.

>>1448992
I'm in the same situation. Want to be study buddies or something?

>>1449026
Don't think it was about you.

>>1449006
>Drawing is too hard. You can't fix your mistakes.
What is an eraser? You're fucking stupid or something.
>Painting is easier.
Painting requires the same skillbase. To say it's easier just shows how ignorant you are.
>Painting is superior to drawing. Painting is King of fine art.
Cool opinion bro.
>If you really gotta draw, then draw with prismacolor nupastels. Nupastels allow a little bit of revision and drawing over previous layers.
Just like, well ANY PENCIL.
>You don't need to be good in drawing in order to be good in painting. They are two totally different things.
The skills needed to draw effectively are the same skills needed to paint effectively. Anatomy, perspective, composition, color theory, ect. You're just straight up ignorant.
>>1449018
>Drawing is too physically demanding.
lolwut
>When you are getting into the details your head gets closer to the paper and your neck hurts.
Protip: You aren't supposed to do this.
>Not just your neck, when you are drawing something big, you gotta do it on the floor because desk is too small.
What small-ass desk do you have? Mine's 30"x40", and table I used before was even bigger.
>Your back hurts, your legs hurt, your neck hurts, etc.
Yeah, if you don't prop it upward like you would a painting on an easel, for the same fucking reasons.
>With painting though you sit comfortably on a chair and move your brush over the canvas facing you and sitting on an easel.
>put drawing board on easel
>clip paper to drawing board
>problem fucking solved
Dear god you're fucking stupid.

>>1449039
Well there is too much friction between pencil and paper. It's too much work for my arm.
There is very little friction between brush and canvas.
What if paper is too big for the drawing board? Then you gotta really do it on the floor.

>>1449045
>Well there is too much friction between pencil and paper. It's too much work for my arm.
How fucking out of shape are you? Holy shit man, that's just pathetic.
>There is very little friction between brush and canvas.
There's not that much unless you're bearing down hard on the pencil like some sort of fucking mongoloid retard.
>What if paper is too big for the drawing board? Then you gotta really do it on the floor.
You can easily find drawing boards up to 24"x36", and if you really need larger, you can go to Lowes and have them cut a board to size for you. You'd probably have more trouble finding paper large enough to necessitate that, though, as most paper makers largest size seems to be 22"x30".

>>1449039
Man, are you really responding seriously?

It depends what your standard of "good" is.
You might be studying for 5 or 50 years

roughly a lil' bit

get a tablet and get some classical anatomy books from the library draw the shit till you got it do the same for everything else till you learn it from pure repetition

dont make a deviantart or take credit for anything for that matter you will only insulate yourself

>>1448467
>Falling for the obvious troll.

ever heard the phrase "perfect practice makes practice"?

getting good at drawing just takes practice and thought and practice and thought
think about what you are learning and try to find out what you need to learn

along with just drawing shit and learning to design this is all there is

>there is no talent
>no one is better
>some people are worse
my logic circuits are overheating

apology for poor english

when were you when talent dies?

i was sat at home drawing anime when loomis ring

'talent is kill'

'no'

>>1448467

jesus christ why are you so fucking dumb he's being sarcastic

he even said it's a scientific fact when talking about talent.

TALENT. SCIENCE. HAHA. HE LITERALLY COULD NOT HAVE MADE IT MORE OBVIOUS.

fuck i hate you all

>>1448020
I thought that said "Sleeping with his editor" for a second.

>>1447997
>18 months ago

>>1452048
shit forgot pic

>>1452048
>>1452049
2 months ago

improvement takes a while mayne

>>1448539
Is it possible to not have your hand on your paper when drawing on a horizontal surface?

>>1452054
Of course. Lean on your elbow instead, and move your whole arm, and not just your wrist.
Takes some practice, but if you have large paper you'll get used to it.

Art is something you need to have been practising at since childhood so that it grows with you.

You'll never become as good as you could have, and you've lost the ability to develop natural talent that you might have had.

>>1452109

Ignore this mega dork

there is no natural talent, only hard work

>>1452117
>>1452125
>no natural talent

I hate to break it to you but there is. Otherwise everyone would be playing Chopin at age 6 and painting Mozarts at 4.

>>1452145
Your logic doesn't even make sense.

Please rethink your argument.

>>1452148
Let me explain it, since you seem incapable of following.
There are people that get that good without practice, they are naturally skilled. This is what we term "talent".
If talent didn't exist, then it would take everyone roughly the same amount of time to perfect a skill.

>>1452153
It is true that there are some people that are naturally very skilled from birth, but

>You'll never become as good as you could have, and you've lost the ability to develop natural talent that you might have had.

This is incredibly suspect thinking. There are plenty of successful artists who have developed from scratch, past childhood.

>>1452156
You'll never prove they're as good as they could have been.

>>1452159
And you'll never otherwise. What's your point?

>>1452162
>>1452163

Except you can compare them with people that have been doing it since birth, who are (surprise surprise) always better.

>>1452145
>implying 6 year olds are good at playing chopin and/or are even metacognizant of playing chopin

talent is a pursued interest. how it happens at a young age is still kind of mysterious but so far having something along the lines of ASD (attention surplus *disorder*) usually helps. sometimes people have the opportunity to find something that they are willing to put a surplus of attention in to, as if it were not "hard work". those are the people we refer to as "talented" (often times were probably even on the autism spectrum). it's not some sort of gift in the sense that it's tangible, usually much more so a situation that has been bestowed upon them where achieving something that we as outsiders consider beautiful, at a young age can happen. example being a "talented" young artist that comes from a home where his father is a photographer and his mother was a sculptor. would you call that a coincidence that growing up in an environment like that would encourage a child to pursue their "interests" at a young age? who your parents are and what you learn from them early on usually has a profound impact on the rest of your life. the actual outliers are the ones who go beyond what their parents achieved.

point being, find something you are willing to put all of your attention into. some people find it at an early age. MOST "talented" actually come from homes where there interest was encouraged, so it almost makes sense that they would pursue it early on.

you have to appreciate the human's ability to mimic* if you want to understand how talent works. don't think for a second these child "naturals" have any idea what they are doing. understanding a thing only**** comes with time, which everyone has. that's why we keep telling people that come here:

YOU CAN START AT ANY AGE DOING A LOT OF THING THAT YOU WANT TO.

this is also not exclusive to "art", or whatever you people seem to think that means.

>>1452159
And you'll never prove otherwise. What's your point?

>>1452165
>2 seconds on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpdK25xcZeM

I don't even need to read the rest of your post to know you're wrong.

>>1452153
>there are people that get good without practice, they are naturally skilled

no, just just want it more than you.

http://expertenough.com/1898/visualization-works

if you want it bad enough, you'll figure out how to get it done. I spent years watching people draw and looking at images that i liked and observing and abusing the fuck out of my visual senses. I would spend hours staring at things, analyzing them and trying to understand how they work JUST by looking at them. in my spare time I would look at illustrators that I liked and watch videos, watching how they moved to see how their movements translated to the images they were making. I became obsessed with the mechanics of making a drawing. through watching, dreaming and visualizing I was able to make leaps of improvement with literally little to NO practice. because I was talented? what do you think talent even means?

stop pretending people don't work to get things. mindlessly putting effort into exercises that you *think* will help you improve is not how you improve at something. you get better at things you WANT to get better at. you HAVE to become obsessed otherwise you WILL NOT IMPROVE.

you ever see a drawing that inspired you and motivated you to draw JUST LIKE IT, and became totally involved in trying to make your work like it, and suddenly days later you realize your drawings got better than they were before? imagine doing that every FUCKING day.

talent is not some sort of free pass to skill. talent is dedication. so stop kidding yourself and get off you ass and do something about what it is you want.

You guys could not make this thread any shittier than it already is, congrats.

>>1452170
Stop.
Talent exists, it might be genetic, like blacks with running, or it might be unlucky, like autistic savants that can do sums faster than a calculator.

>>1452170
>want it more
Someone practices 10 times less than you and are still better because they "want it more", muh logic.

>>1452168

that video proves my point. if you're not going to actually think about what people are saying than why do you bother talking to them? you think you're the only one that knows what's true?

what about your video proves that talent comes without practice?

i think you're lying to yourself and making excuses to prevent you from working because you're afraid of failure and you don't know the value of persistence.

p.s. she wasn't very good. you seem to not know much about classical music if you think so. here's an example of actual "talent" and not just some poor kid whose parents forced them into learning violin to seem special (go to new england, there's TONS of rich children who are supposedly special, and oddly enough no poor ones- go figure? must be only rich kids are talented right? not that their parents could afford trainers and lessons from infancy right?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebvBowBf9jI

george li. kid actually loves what he does. you could learn something from him.

It is true, there is no talent and everyone is special. My mom said it so.

>>1452174
>talent exists

NO ONE IS SAYING IT DOESN'T. what are you even responding to?

>>1452177
>that proves my point

Your point of ">implying 6 year olds are good at playing chopin" ?

You can't even keep up with the conversation. You're like an old man.
She doesn't love what she does, she's talented.

>>1452177
So with your motivation and understanding of hard and smart work you must be president of the world already. Show your art maybe?

>>1452176
>someone practice 10 times less than you and are still better because they "want it more"

absolutely. do you know how many people on this forum bust their ass for hours and hours and yet still don't understand how to at least demonstrate a reasonable understanding of something as simple as the reilly method?

http://www.creativitypost.com/arts/the_most_valuable_lesson_i_learned_from_playing_the_violin

should give you brief insight into the problem of practice more but get less results.

you seem to have a superficial understanding of what "wanting it" means. wanting something does not mean you tell yourself "i want it", wanting something means solving the problems you need to solve in order to get the results that lead to the thing you want.

I think you're mistaking "liking the idea of something" with "wanting it".

>>1452181
>>1452180
>literally not reading a word I wrote
>damage control to boot

fuck off if you're not going to participate. you're only reading what you want instead of considering what I'm saying as even reasonably valid.

come back when you learn how to communicate with other people.

there is a reason this website is 18+, kids.

>>1452185
Fuck your methods. You can have 2 people placing dots and when one will get better you will tell other practiced wrong. Or didn't make love to the dots or some other bullshit.

>>1452188
>d-damage control!

Wow. Stop posting.

>>1452188
You seem like extremely motivated person mister president. Come on you art must be at master level already. You love it so much. And you know all those smart methods.

>>1452191
>responding to a literal description of what you are doing with a misinterpretation posed as some sort of exposure of meme-use, whilst defending your argument with another meme

do you want to talk about talent or not? you seem to be avoiding the subject.

>>1452188
>18+, kids.
You lack communication skills yourself if you think people would respect you more by slinging baseless insults.

No matter how valid your argument may be if it isn't presented well, most people will just ignore it.

>>1452200
>>1452201

>responding to tone

I can quote the pyramid too

>>1452189

exactly. that's how it works. you either can or cannot figure it out. those who can without it being frustrating move on to the next task until they find something frustrating. once they find something frustrating you have two options

1. you persist
2. you give up

the people who persist when frustrated are the ones who make it and "figure things out" and make it to the next stage of understanding. this isn't fucking "smart methods" this is common sense.

you need to stop kidding yourself if you think persistence has nothing to do with achieving something in the face of not knowing how to do it.

why would you waste your time making these fantasy scenarios where people succeed without practice? why would you WANT to even think that exists? then you would never practice or put effort into things because well "gee, I guess I'm not talented or smart so why should I try". fuck you. you don't have a lack of talent you're a fucking loser with a defeatist attitude.

you're shooting yourself in the foot if you think you can't do something before you do it. how about you try it first? maybe it's *actually* not as difficult as you are imagining it to be. key word here, imagining. meaning, you are (here's the funny part, you'll see how visualizing ties in to this) literally imagining your failure before you try something, and then you fail, and WONDER why you failed. do you see something problematic about that scenario?

>>1452210
>you are either talented or not

Thanks for wasting your own time.

>>1452201

get your act together. I'm not going to hold your hand through this. if you can't handle a stranger on the internet calling you out on your bullshit how are you going to handle that in person?

>>1452208
Not in this thread but I responded to the same argument multiple times. I'm just can't be bothered anymore.

"Innate talent" increases the likelihood of success, doesn't determine it.

From previous scientific studies a quick excerpt:
The evidence we have surveyed in this target article does not support the talent account, according to which excelling is a consequence of possessing innate gifts. This conclusion has practical implications, because categorising some children as innately talented is discriminatory. The evidence suggests that such categorization is unfair and wasteful, preventing young people from pursuing a goal because of teachers' or parents' unjustified conviction that they would not benefit from the superior opportunities given to those who are deemed to be talented.

Source: http://cogprints.org/656/1/innate.htm

>>1452212

so you are admitting that talent = persistence?

>>1452213
No, you don't seem to understand what you're trying to say.
If someone is talented at something, they will persist with it.
If they are not, they will not be as good as someone that is talented, even if they persist.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you. You're clearly an idiot that is incapable of understanding.

>>1452211
That was my first post in this thread so he didn't call me out on any bullshit since I haven't posted anything before hand. Was just commenting on the irony of his post.

>>1452210
Only problem is some people can get some things in few hours and other need days. And then instead accepting that one of them is better you will try to fix you fair world view wit putting a blame on the worse one. Stay normalfag. You are as untalented as the rest here and can't prove your words with your achievements.

I was 'talented' from a young age but I didn't get anywhere because I'm a lazy fuck.

>>1452216
>some people can get some things in a few hours and other need days

[citation needed]

>>1452218
finish at least elementary, you will see for yourself

>>1447997
You're either good or you aren't, so it's pretty much instant.

>>1448991
In university for composition, I love my music and it's always gonna be #1 but I figure if I successfully co-opt music into being my career it's no longer my hobby so I'm picking up another hobby.

Always loved animation and wanted to make my own cartoons so drawing it is.

>>1448023
Dude, that's more sleep than I get now. Then again I'm in the military and balancing out improving as an artist. Hell, back when I was in a community college, for one semester, I only got four hours of sleep a night. I kept working on various art projects and animation projects. Though lacking in sleep, that was my favorite semester, mainly because of all the fun I had creating. Tried all sorts of new things, from animation to silver smithing.

mastery takes about 10k hours

so about 7 years

>>1447997
It really depends on how well you spend your time. You could be spending thousands of hours dicking around doing whatever's in your comfort zone, or you can spend half the amount of time, doing intensive studies. One good example is hannes, he spend about 3 years, practiced about 8 hours a day and he was worse than most of us in the beginning.

>>1453076
who's hannes?

>>1453078
appleflinger

>>1453076
His work is good, no doubt, but there's something I don't like about it. It's like his lines are too neat and it's too...polished. I don't know.

>>1453082
> appleflinger
> apple
> flinger

lel

>>1451903
What?

>>1451903
You don't need to apologize, this is perfect English. Have you considered writing books?

>>1453086
It's because he overuses graphic design techniques.

you can get good enough to make money of it in 1 - 2 years.

>>1453107
if you sell your shit furries on deviantart then yes

>>1453106
>layer masks, quick select and lasso tool are graphic design techniques

What's wrong with all these clueless idiots on /ic/ lately?

>>1453110
I feel sorry for you, anon.

>>1447997
yes. 20 hours a day of hardcore fundamental studies will do that.

it will also drain the joy from your soul.

>>1448003
teacher is almost irrelevant. a lazy asshole with a great teacher is going to end up worse than a super hardworking dude learning by himself.

>>1453137
Yeah, but imagine if the lazy asshole's perception of work/art/anatomy/practice/whatever is completely changed by the teacher.

>>1453149
hasn't ever happened in my experience

>"you can get good in 2 years just as X guy"
>no one here ever gets good
so are you fucks lazy pieces of shit or just talking bullshit?

A few weeks if that.

Not even joking.

Most people spend their lives watching TV , playing videogames, on facebook or looking at clothes to buy.

If those same people used those hours to pursue a creative activity, they would become godlike in that chosen activity.

People say "it cant be done" because all they know is facebook and tumblr for 10 hours a day, and its easier to excuse their laziness by saying "b-b-buh talent!!!"

>>1453493
>implying we don't do the same with 4chan

I don't know if this is the best thread to say it, but I just want to let you guys know that to me you are the best critics for art. I don't want to go to people I know and ask for their opinion (save a few) because they're either yes men or they just don't know what looks good. You guys are never yes men, most of the time you'll not only tell me my art is as shitty as it is, but are willing to tell me why. The sticky is so useful I've book marked the material in it.

Thanks again for being blunt about everything.

also so I stay on topic
>>1447997
Just do it, spend at least 30 minutes a day legitimately doing studies (use the sticky for help with that). Keep doing it till you master it; till there is no way you can fuck up. Then you move on. The most important thing is to actually enjoy what you're doing. If you don't enjoy making art, then what's the fucking point in trying to get good at it?