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/g/ - Technology


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>> No.81000081

>>81000050
Maybe if you learned how to be a real programmer you'd make real programmer wages. There's no reason you should be making even 40k.

>> No.81000090

>>81000064
>try freelancing
>compete with 30 million developers around the world from india to poland
Anon do you even know how anything works?

>> No.81000097

You don't suffer in the first world, you cuck

>> No.81000118

>>81000090
You clearly don't.

>> No.81000126

>>81000090
>Try driving a truck
>Turns out this new autopilot can delivery the same at half your cost. Sorry anon

>> No.81000127

>>81000050
Making 40K in the netherlands in a cozy web dev job where you probably work from home half the time seems quite comfy life.

>> No.81000135

>>81000127
Are you from eastern europe?

>> No.81000161

>>81000145
This. You get less than half of that 40k out and then have to live with 20k per year. This is nothing at all and worse money than an electrician

>> No.81000172

>>81000161
Not only that but you also have to life with the fact that you feed these subhumans who say that bullshit through welfare programs or if they stayed in their country foreign aid.

2021 and china still receivea foreign aid while claiming how they lifted their population out of poverty and how great they are.

>> No.81000222

>>81000180
Just shut your mouth if you only have lies and bullshit to say. I pay around 30-40% in taxes and other shit of my salary. Fuck you you worthless subhuman. I eish we wouldnt feed you worthless niggers with eu payments

>> No.81000226

>>81000164
That's literally eastern europe tier. You absolutely did.

>> No.81000241

>>81000164
It's actually quite common

>> No.81000270

>>81000260
It's a job where you actually need to design reliable software and solve real problems. Web dev is neither.

>> No.81000280

>>81000164
Net or brutto?

Net is quite good actually. Expect 1700-2000 EUR/month net for a starter job.

My PhD bursary is 2360 EUR/month net but my income is not taxed. Of course I have to suffer through the hell that is academia and scientific research.

>> No.81000284

>>81000264
its not just aobut any soft dev just about being self employed in general. germany is a hostile environment for self employment cause of taxes, health insurance, laws and regulations. they basically treat you like a major company and demand you adhere to the same shit they have to do and crack down on you instead of the big companies. they want you to be a good wage slave that pays his taxes in the most transparent way

>> No.81000344

>>81000326
>So why not build a SaaS on AWS for side income while you work at BigCo, then when it starts making more income than your wagies
Impossible if you live in a first world country. Maybe in hungary this shit works

>> No.81000351

>>81000326
>side income
germany especially decentivizes any second income stream cause its one of the countries societal goals that people should only have 1 Job to sustain themselves. its often worse for you cause you get taxed higher if you have a 2nd job that pays more than a few bucks. thats why this country doesnt have a "gig" economy like the US. Uber doesnt exist or all those other type of gig jobs you can do in the US to up your income for example. instacart or whatver the fuck. any "gig" style job doesnt really exist here cause the entire tax system is too much for it to allow for such jobs.

>> No.81000385

>>81000344
>Impossible if you live in a first world country. Maybe in hungary this shit works
You can do this in California
Even if you work at a game company, you can build your own game in your own time and sell it
You can argue California is third world though and I will probably agree with you
>>81000351
if you make $10000 extra and they take $9000, you still made more money though
If you get to the point you make $100000, then cut the BigCo job and you have one income stream again

>> No.81000405

>>81000385
>just make 100k with your SaaS bro
thatll leave you with 50k after taxes. i dont think you understand how demotivating all of this is especially cause your money to millions of refugees instead of improving the country. i just want to eat a bullet at this point.

>> No.81000408

>>81000063
>same shit in germany
The company I worked for before I moved abroad (I'm from Belgrade, Serbia) worked exclusively with German and Dutch companies. Basically, we'd do all the work for €1-1.5k/month and they'd just patch it all together so it looks as if it's their product. Colleagues from Croatia said it was the same there

>> No.81000421
File: 390 KB, 959x634, 78642431.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81000421

>>81000382
>Any yearly income higher than 5000 EUR
From secondary activities, i.e. not your salaried job.

Everyone I know that had a side hustle does it in black though.

>> No.81000426

>>81000414
that is an average income BEFORE taxes ahd there is a lower and upper limit to the middle class.
That 50k is 2.3k ish after taxes so you'll see how they can group 1.2k - maybe 3.5k after taxes earners into the middle class. dont tell me how my country works.

>> No.81000462

>>81000426
50k is pretty good for web dev and it stays that way for senior devs. Take the burger or swiss pill

>> No.81000466

>>81000453
t. american liviing in an environment friendly to entrepreneurship

>> No.81000476

>>81000453
>>plow all your income back into the business to make it grow
You know jackshit about starting a business. The numbers are always stacked against you and the product itself is 5% of the work. The rest is marketing and public relations. Your opinion sounds third world where everyone can becomea billionaire if they work hard enough.

>> No.81000565

>>81000050
>working for European companies in the era of remote work
ISHYGDDT

>> No.81000722

>>81000690
You got it better, you can always move to third world country

>> No.81000731

>>81000710
>I'm talking about a normal small company. You know, the type that's the base of every healthy economy.
Every healthy economy is lifted by some large gigacorps. Small startups do jackshit for that

>> No.81000750

>>81000344
why is it impossible?

>> No.81000759

Dutch bro here. The Dutch tech sector is totally cucked and basically carried by Assimil. Go to Eindhoven and you will see pajeets everywhere. Why? Because the pathetic wages cannot attract Ameribro talent (except low tier programmers that come on a 30% ruling) where average payment in the tech industry is order of magnitudes higher.

Inb4 taxes. The wages netto are a meme. This is why Europe will be left behind. Anyone of talent that isn't attracted to this cold swampland will be exported to Silicon Valley, London, or Seattle.

Don't get me wrong. Coding is largely a working class job for brainlets of middling IQ. You need a few high IQers pulling strings and working on tough theoretical issues, but most of coding can be done by someone with the logical capabilities of a home electrician (not talking shit, it's a good job and does take some basic smarts).

>> No.81000774

>>81000750
SaaS exist in such quantities that your product won't be any different. You also don't put out a product and then wait for people come to you. The product is actually the easy part, the rest is competing against a thousand companies that have more talent and resources than you. Chances of making it: 0.0000001%. Better play the lottery

>> No.81000786

>>81000759
>Ameribro talent
My experience in norway is that burgers are just loud and prone to hype. They are actually worse than us norwegians but still get compensated higher than us, because they have the big unicorns

>> No.81000795

it's like when calligraphy used to be an elite occupation and suddenly it became the most pedestrian of things
beautiful in a way

>> No.81000858

>>81000335
you're talking to neet midwits with no experience in the real world, ofc they're going to feel entitled to 200K € per month in the Netherlands. I know some ppl like them, they're pussies and typically stay entitled with no jobs while the rest of the world is making money.

>> No.81000862

>>81000835
It's all supply and demand and currently the demand is extremely high (career shifters, STEM majors swarming into tech, waiters and cashiers going to bootcamps, CS now more popular than business or accounting)

>> No.81000874

>>81000858
Experience doesn't count in web and app dev. Young potential does

>> No.81000897

>>81000874
idk what kind of dying startup hires "young potential" but I know for a fact that if you can show a good portfolio you'll land a job in no time, absolutely nothing beats experience.

>> No.81000914

>>81000897
If you're over 30 you are competiting with zoomers that do nothing but "code" all day

>> No.81000931

>>81000759
>>81000862
What do you think is the good field to pivot to? Everyone will be possibly doing CS now.

I'm actually concerned about this, since I'm about to enter the job market and it seems like I've made a wrong choice, should have gone into math.

>> No.81000937

>>81000050
>Convince me that being a coder isn't a blue collar occupation.
You sit in the office(or more likely, your own home) all day. That's the very definition of white collar work, you lazy fuck.

>> No.81000962

>>81000931
We will move towards where EE moved decades ago. Everyone will be a coder because you don’t need a degree and they delude themselves. Wages will drop to 20k to 30k here in europe while one percent will make 200k and work themselves to death. One rockstar dev, ten code monkeys and you will constantly learn useless bullshit from the big five that is outdated in a few years, all while getting older. There are no old web devs and you either become a manager or hustle yourself to death as an entrepreneur

>> No.81000979

>>81000786
Yes, you are right. But because they work at the big unicorns, they have REAL world experience and can bring that know-how to other places. Obviously a good education at any uni in the 'first world' will yield equally talented programmers, it has nothing to do with geography per se. HOWEVER, professors with actual tech experience are not going to move to fucking Bergen to be paid USD 60k/year when they are offered a spot at Carnegie Mellon for $400k starting. You lose connections, get more 'bubbles' of less experience professors

>> No.81000998

>>81000931
>What do you think is the good field to pivot to?
Management. CSfags will be getting minimum wage burger flipping salaries soon with how insanely over-stuffed the education pipeline is. But, companies will be trying to replace one boomer with 100 zoomers and they will need a lot of retard herders to help manage that. Globalists and China are also going to raise literally 1,000,000,000 Tyrones in Africa during your lifetime to use as slave labor and that's going to require a lot of management, too. Learn Chinese and volunteer at a zoo.

>> No.81001014

>>81000226
>That's literally eastern europe tier.
eastern europe outsources to west tho

>> No.81001025

>>81000998
engineers swarm like insects into tech and destroy decades of clean code bases with their overengineering approach. Don't get me started on the mathematicians who are even worse coders than toddlers. I don't know what kind of fucked up reality they have, but coding and math seem to contradict each other at a certain point. Unreadable spaghetti code

>> No.81001059

>>81001016
>EU needs to realise you have to PAY PEOPLE if you want them to work for you
EU imports people from eastern europe, medi countries or india if you don't want to do it for 30k per year. In the netherlands some even learn spanish and russian to better communicate with new colleagues.

>> No.81001131

Go to TU/eindhoven and look at all the low tier pimpled Dutch bros with middling IQs absolutely CONVINCED they're geniuses because they have awkward social manner despite most Dutch people being well adjusted. Truly the lowest tier of programmers.

>> No.81001152

>>81001098
I have only good experience with these folks and they aren't worse than western zoomers, but it still doesn't change the problem of decreased wages. It's still a market and when there is too much supply then wages drop to absolutely cringe numbers. Electrical engineers cashed out like kings decades before and now they earn peanuts.

>> No.81001155

>>81001040
>No. Western countries outsource to eastern europe.
Excuse me, my error, what I meant west companies outsourced work to east europe, east europe markets are quite weak and you will never get high salary unless west outsourced to you.

>> No.81001207

>>81001192
because the salaries are bullshit -> brain drain

>> No.81001213

>>81001185
I think that europeans play catch up with americans. They follow trends and frameworks without questioning them for a second and then wonder why they are always five years behind.

>> No.81001219

>>81000050
>>81000063
Just out of curiosity, how many programming languages do you dominate?

>> No.81001236

>>81001219
What do you mean with dominate? How fast I can google solutions to another problem that millions of devs had before me? If so, then Python and Java

>> No.81001274

>>81001236
What other google programming language would you add to your arsenal?

>> No.81001290

>>81001219
>dominate
kill yourself

>> No.81001298

>>81001192
>I never understood why you eastern europeans don't have a more thriving industry
We have some talented people yeah, but capital is very scarce here, credit is very costly, business climate is shit unless you use loopholes, lawlessness.

>> No.81001345

>>81001274
That's impossible to say and you have to do your own research. Look up what you want to do

>> No.81001358

>>81001274
Go, obviously

>> No.81001391

>>81000050
So leave the Netherlands... Wages there are cucked.

>> No.81001416

>>81001387
>dominate
Because you assign a different context to the word dominate. in my language to dominate is basically to be extremely well versed in something.

>> No.81001424

>web dev
There is your problem.

>> No.81001427
File: 387 KB, 680x708, a09.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81001427

>>81001388
>most experienced software engineering salaries in Amsterdam at €60,000/year.

>> No.81001460

>>81001424
Almost all programming jobs nowadays are web dev, everything else pays terrible and has very few jobs.

>> No.81001471

>>81001449
You swedes have the luxury of being less people and being more open minded to new technologies. But wait until tech gets hyped to the gills in your country. The supply will shoot so high that the wages drop near zero.

>> No.81001494

This whole thread is depressing me, I make 11k a year working retail. Fuck

>> No.81001530

>>81001497
Do you even know what a 3rd worlder is. You don't want to live in a favela and have a 10% chance of having your throat cut every time you go outside.

>> No.81001531

>>81000180
>You pay fuck all taxes at 40K lmao.

he still pays 40-50%. this shows how stupid foreign invaders are

>> No.81001572

>>81001531
>implying that's a lot
If you had a salary like 400K (not unheard of among top lawyers, surgeons, etc) you would pay much higher taxes.

>> No.81001585

>>81000414

Nope, average income BEFORE TAX is 37k in the Netherlands.

>> No.81001589
File: 16 KB, 256x353, laughingelfman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81001589

ITT: bottom of the barrel dutch "web devs" blame eastern europeans for not having a proper job

>> No.81001591

>>81001440
>embedded pays shit
What do you consider shit exactly? Junior C/C++ devs at my company start at 70-90k USD in the Philadelphia area process automation industry.
>>81001460
I mean this is anecdotal but we can't find enough ""good"" native and embedded devs. And if we do find someone they usually fail a drug test.

>> No.81001604

>>81000490

Jeff Bezos was also a VP before founding amazon, keep that in mind. He's not exactly bootstrapped.

>> No.81001605

>>81001591
Even outside California, dev salaries in the USA are usually double of that in Western Europe, you can't compare the two

>> No.81001609
File: 7 KB, 250x249, f60.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81001609

>>81001585
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>> No.81001678

>>81001626
based Chinks. I bet they have less economic anxiety too, because seeing 40% +- of your wage being garnished every month is fucking depressing.

>> No.81001791

>>81000405
>50% tax rate. demotivating especially cause your money goes to millions of refugees instead of improving the country. i just want to eat a bullet
lal
The worst part of it is that it doesn't matter how many subhumans they import, they can never fix the 3rd world because their problems are caused by their behavior and their behavior is determined by their genetics. The only solution is external administration (or genocide).

>> No.81001827

>>81001777
>risk/financial modelling
>any finance job
>statistician
>any computer science job will be offered with minimal programming knowledge if you have a pure math degree
>teaching/tutoring (kek)

>> No.81001866

>>81001654

Honestly, I have no idea bro. It's fucked.

>> No.81001900

>>81001885
I say this with some experience I know people in trading in the US, and have worked with trading firms in Holland. It's not all cap gains; the pay is usually structured as a profit sharing agreement with the trading firm you work for staking you.

>> No.81001926

>>81000050
Same in Sweden although even lower salaries for similar cost of living.
I make 40k/y being an Erlang monkey for a big company. Can't afford a decent apartment with my salary without help from my parents, will never afford a house.
Starting your own consultancy firm here is pretty easy though, and you earn a ton more with some tax planning. If you don't have a network of costumers to choose from, big reputable consultancy firms can sign you on as an "Associate", they give your customers and take like 15-20%.

>> No.81002072

You make much more than that in Israel and I came here from Poland

>> No.81002101

>>81000063
Germany is straight up anti innovation. Even good pajeets leave it for greener pastures.
Find some rich arab company and earn moneys. Dont waste time there

>> No.81002132

>>81000326
>>81000750
>why is it impossible?
What exactly do you think he's going to make and sell to make that much money? You sound like someone that is under 18.

>> No.81002150

>>81001926
???
If you're not retarded and have experience you can get a job for 60k in Sweden

>wanting to buy an apartment or a house in/near a major city

Confirmed for retarded, just buy a stuga for cash 180km from Malmö/Göteborg/Stockholm for 50k. You're a programmer nigger, work remotely.

But let me guess, you "need" more

>> No.81002153

>>81002093
I dunno what you're projecting on me, but you're way off the mark. The fact that you're still trying to cope is just funny to me. Go on explain how FAGMAN is making it so you're paid like dogshit. In fact I'd even argue their inflated salaries are boosting the minimum dev salary nation wide.

>> No.81002204

>>81001983
Pro-Tips:
1. Nobody cares about your degree here, I've interviewed/hired people with the following degrees: finance, math, statistics, biology, philosophy, physics, comp sci, and all variety of engineering)
2. Image matters in the investment world. Shower, get your suit tailored, and get a good haircut (go to a stylist and ask them for their input)

3. Presentation skills are where you make your bread. Everyone applying is smart, with the hard skills to do the job, you need to show that you will be the best of that group at office politics and presentation. 99% of your work is useless if you can't translate it into a low level for management. I hate self-help, but reading Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People could help if you are really socially awkward. (I can elaborate on social business skills if you want.)

4. If you want to go into backend engineering in shit like high frequency trading, market making, risk modeling, etc. you will need to be a top 10-5% programmer. You need to be able to write performance C/C++ that incorporates streaming data. Get really deep in algorithms so you have a ton of options to implement and test for speed. This isn't web backend: "if it works, we're good."

>> No.81002234

>>81002215
OK, whatever helps you sleep at night.

>> No.81002239

I work for a blue chip company as a software/hardware engineer, works boring but the payscales are decent enough

>> No.81002258

>>81002234
nice larp neet

>> No.81002266

>>81002204
Appreciate this thorough answer, anon. Are these interviews all in Dutch or do you have to be fluent in English?

>> No.81002312

>>81002272
>Electrician
20-40k if you are lucky.
Welder maybe more but only if oyu are part of a union and can cash in on those sweet overtime payments.
Very miserable low paid jobs here.

>> No.81002314

>>81002269
Seriously, all I see ITT is a lot of crying from entitled dutch faggots. This isn't Silicon Valley, you're not going to get a 250k starting salary and you won't be buying yourself a fucking villa in the middle of Amsterdam. Plus, you've got to make some sacrifices if you have goals in life. Until I saved enough to buy a house in a village, I was renting a literal shitshack in some hillbilly's back yard for 400 euros a month. That was a key enabler for saving enough to buy a small house later. And now I can save even more since I don't pay rent, and I'm planning on buying a bigger house in about 6 years.

>> No.81002317

>>81002215
He’s a larping shit

>> No.81002325

>>81002217
>don't waste thousands a month on mortgage
confirmed poorcel who doesnt understand credit rates

>>81002272
not so good either, same 'issue' where EE tradesman migrate to work. dutch salaries overall are complete dogshit; the tax system is designed to peg the median to about 27k a year after taxes

>> No.81002334

>>81002325
>confirmed poorcel who doesnt understand credit rates
Weird, yet I'm the one living in his own house and you're the one crying about slavs on 4chan

>> No.81002342

>>81002325
>>81002312
Fucking hell. Not sure how people live there considering housing prices look fucked over there as well

>> No.81002349

>>81002217
>>81002334
just admit that your family played a huge part in you being able to afford a house. its better if you start to admit this to yourself and eventually to others.

>> No.81002377

>>81000284
You forgot banks and capital at large.
The main reason the US do so well in terms of business is that you can get credit and investment pretty much everywhere.
In Germany, France and all the other european countries (maybe minus Switzerland) people put their money in real estate and banks have such conservative strategies that they will laugh at you if you aren't:
1) already a millionaire
2) asking for crumbs

>> No.81002435

>>81002334
i have my own house which the bank is paying for

>>81002342
its pretty bad. most people i know are essentially waiting for their grandparents/parents to die so they can inherit that equity and are just burning money renting in the meantime

>> No.81002438

>>81002429
no bank in western europes gonna give you a 500k loan after "5 years" of working as a 20 something. Stop lying.

>> No.81002463

Honestly cannot stop laughing thinking about OP riding his gayboy bike around amsterdam, crying about writing his lil javascript apps

>> No.81002484

>>81002448
OK let's do some basic math, pls try to keep up:
- Get 2500 euro salary after taxes per month, totally average for a programmer
- Live in a remote shitshack so your rent food and other costs add up to 1000 euro per month
- Save 1500 euro per month, let's calculate with 15k saved per year due to unexpected expenses, some entertainment, etc.
- in 5 years you've now saved 75k
- buy house in village for cash

See? Not that hard

>> No.81002499

>>81002465
see >>81002484 and stop coping

The key is to live far away from the city, that will enable all the other savings. But most of you faggots can't imagine life outside a western european capital, of course you'll always be poor.

>> No.81002502

>>81002443

Is it a shack in a village in Zeeland or something? This is the only situation where this makes sense.

Also, about your earlier comment
>3hr commute

Come on man, you can spend your life in a better way. Think bout how much you can improve yourself by spending 3 hours per day.

>> No.81002547

>>81000528
votes dont matter to the jews. no one voted for the foreign invasion

>> No.81002553

>>81002438
netherlands actually has quite good mortgages; I can get a 450k fully financed at age 26 (i do have a good salary and no liabilities tho)

>>81002484
https://www.funda.nl/koop/heel-nederland/0-75000/
nice garage VRO

>> No.81002557

>>81000270
put an example

>> No.81002564

>>81000597
germany dindu nothing. russian was a worse occupier

>> No.81002633

>>81002623
delude yourself that this shit is worth a 3hr commute

>> No.81002653

>>81002623
At least it isn't in eastern germany. You pay the majority for the ground its standing on

>> No.81002687
File: 299 KB, 636x336, Screenshot_20210405_153558.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81002687

>>81002633
>>81002638
Kek, pic related is what I'll be buying in another 5 years, who'll be laughing then? It's like you fucks are seriously unable to formulate a 10 year plan and lay the groundwork for the rest of your lives while you are between the ages 25-35.

You want everything immediately at no effort, and you will end up with nothing.

>> No.81002690

>>81002587
The best hack is to work remote, earn in EUR and live in Eastern Europe. Basically this multiplies your salary by about 4-5 times.

>> No.81002728

>>81000050
I really can't believe how trash IT salaries are in Europe. I Live in a third world shithole in Latin America making near $20k. I have ex coworkers making near $40k working for burgers. And we are talking that VAT is like 15% and salary deduction is near 20% (10% pension fund, other 10% for the goyverment) .

>> No.81002766

Damn, now I wanna move to Europe and get some refugee money too. Thanks for the motivation, eurobros.

>> No.81002774

>making 70k euros in Denmark as a new grad
>will be making 75k in 6 months

I still want to give silicon valley a shot.

>> No.81002791

>>81002754
You can't get a mortgage like that when you're 23 and a fresh grad. But if you can, then fair play to you, that's also a good plan, better than crying about immigrants on 4chan.

>> No.81002820

>>81002728
It's supply and demand dude. The entry barrier for tech is almost non-existent. Even for blue collar jobs you need three years of trade school before you can begin. As a coder you only need to write hello world and you can begin competing with 30 million other coders around the world.

>> No.81002846

>>81002820
So basically I've wasted 3 years of my life in uni?

>> No.81002944

Finland is worse. Or well, rent isn't that bad as in Amsterdam. But you got weed and whores, kek

>> No.81002982

>>81001623
90k starting is bad? What are you smoking? Maybe it's not an industry problem, but rather just your own unrealistic expectations that are the issue.

>> No.81002996

>>81002880
I suspected that shift. One rockstar dev earning 100k while being constantly working and ten code monkeys earning 40k. Just like in electrical engineering

>> No.81003023

>>81003013
I think you mean "in San Francisco"

>> No.81003055

>>81001623
Truck drivers with 20 years experience working 60 hours + a week make that. Outside of the biggest cities in the US programmers make 90k after like 6 years experience

>> No.81003063

>>81003013
So it’s common to be a billionaire code monkey in the US?

>> No.81003073

>>81003018
This. I never understand their reasoning. Yeah dude you can win in the lottery it's possible but it's extremely unlikely

>> No.81003078

>>81003018
I didn't say that a fresh grad would be earning 60k, I think 40k is more accurate for a fresh grad. I actually don't have a degree (I have an unrelated degree), but I have 5 years experience and I do earn 60k, working remotely because of corona and it will stay that way (it will stay remote, I mean).

60k is of course shit if you compare it to California, but we're not in California are we?

>> No.81003093

>>81003063
>250k is the norm

>> No.81003105

>>81003013
In Philadelphia? No it isn't.

>> No.81003106

so what should a redpilled zoomer study now? is it better to do Telecomunicatons engineering or Mathematics or Mechanical engineering?

>> No.81003134

>>81003106
I would say to follow what you truly like if it's not some art or humanities shit

>> No.81003138

>>81003013
Maybe in the Bay Area - for the rest of the 80% of tech industry workers that aren't in SF, the starting salary is much closer to 45k USD.

I make low six-figs outside the Bay Area, and I'm finding it hard to leave my company, because so much of the rest of the industry is paying shit.

>> No.81003153

>>81003106
I think ME is currently there where CS is heading. Extremely oversaturated and minimal compensation

>> No.81003160

>>81003115
I use public transport to get to work which is subsidised by the state, so it costs me all of 180 eur/month. And I can listen to podcasts or read a book while commuting, or even shitpost on 4chan, it is not lost time.

>> No.81003184

>>81003106
are you NL? EE and go into chip design

>> No.81003215

>>81003106
Don't chase money, bud. I did - got money, but despise what I do everyday. Follow your interests.

>> No.81003359

>>81003138
I was under the impression of more around 55-60k starting. I'm in the middle of nowhere and was making 65k starting out

>> No.81003428
File: 141 KB, 720x699, 1456119882925.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81003428

>>81000050
>>netherlands
There's your issue

>> No.81003718

>>81003428
Kek, I get taxed the same but I have to live among monkeys, free education is shit, free healthcare is shit and 50% annual inflation.
I'd rather live in Denmark.

>> No.81003720

>>81003160
Oh, I assumed you had to drive as houses with public transportation connections to major cities often cost quite a lot.
That's nice. Good for you.

>> No.81003763

>>81001777
it's a meme, autist

>> No.81003848

>>81003428
Still earns more than a senior front end dev kek

>> No.81003910

>>81002587
Dude what. This is the epitome of a cuckshed.

>> No.81003916

>>81003848
>senior
>front end
No such thing, that's like saying pre-schooler with 12 years of experience.

>> No.81003980

>>81000090
If you've ever had a company hire freelance devs from the third world, you'd know how the management team go from "we're brilliant, this will save tens of thousands" to "oh holy shit these retarded pajeets don't know anything"
You can hire them, but you'll be receiving the most inane spaghetti unmaintanable bullshit you've ever seen.
If there's a wrong way to do anything, they'll find it and do it.
Any company that knows that good devs are worth the money is the ones you should be looking at.

>> No.81004017

>>81000362
monkies who make more than almost any other job.

>> No.81004104

>>81003055
This is some cold hard facts.
FAGMANs only pay so much because they steal each others' employees by tempting them with more money and they've got the cash to hire them on basically whatever salary they like.
Outside of the US where the FAGMAN influence is significantly less, the money is still top-tier, really only surpassed by top of the line doctors and maybe lawyers, but software engineering is definitely the best option of this bunch, as both of those have you competing and working crazy long hours. At least medicine is somewhat rewarding work, law seems designed to crush souls and create dull lifeless husks of people.

>> No.81004313

>>81004213
Yep, just like finance. The system chews you up and spits you out on your ass. The like 10% who don't get absolutely fucked by the system make a lot, but at the cost of most of their life and destroys any passions, hobbies, friends, romantic life, etc.
Law will treat you as a peon for decades before letting you do anything of any real value.

>> No.81004878

In Poland - given its low cost of living - being a webdev feels like cheating.

1. For the period of you being at uni (but not later than 26 years of age) you pay no personal income tax unless you cross the second tax bracket of 85K PLN. Whatever you make over 85K PLN is taxed at 32%. During uni most people work on a contract, and you don't pay for health insurance since you're a student. So for that period, brutto = netto.

2. After 2-3 years of experience you start crossing the 2nd tax bracket and you're probably finishing up your degree. This is the time where some people start 1-person company and sign a contract with one company and just work full time under that. You can make eg. 17k PLN/mo brutto and take home 12k PLN netto/mo - that's more than double the national average.

In a small city, a post-soviet apartment costs 250k PLN. Something more modern and spacious is 450k - this is ~5+ years of savings to buy an apartment with cash.

Pretty sure globally there are better places than this, but comparing to non-programmers in Poland who can save 1-2k/mo and need to take a 20 year long mortgate it's just straight up cheating.

Now that 1 EUR = ~4.6 PLN (price record) and the govt is going to release their "Polish New Order" plan it's less so, but so far it's been good.

>> No.81004898

>>81004878
lmao fuck my reddit spacing

>> No.81005099

>>81004979
Deteriorating freedom of press
Have to go to Czech Republic to get an abortion
Low global purchasing power
Highest inflation in Europe

What's not to like?

>> No.81005178

>>81000050
>He thinks that wages have anything to do with education or how hard you have to work

>> No.81005232

>>81005212
Yep, life can now be even shittier than in the EU

>> No.81005306

>>81004878

Whad do you think is best course of action for CS student? Do internship in Poland, or maybe go abroad?

>> No.81005311
File: 11 KB, 244x158, lol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
81005311

>>81005260

>> No.81005554

>>81005306
For context: I only ever worked in Poland. I assume you're just looking for your first gig. At this moment in life it's really hard to say "fuck it" and just move to eg. Germany, because you have zero work experience - so zero stability or confidence that you'll manage.
It'll probably take a few months to even get an internship in Poland. Abroad I assume it'll be the same, but you'll also have to pay for an apartment, stay alive etc.
Unless there's something that really makes you want to leave, the more comfortable approach is to get maybe 2 years of experience here to get on your feet then think about moving abroad then. People start caring about you when you have like +1 year exp. It's much easier when you have a steady stream of offers coming in on linkedin + 50k PLN in the bank.

>> No.81005579

>>81004898
In Poland - given its low cost of living - being a webdev feels like cheating.
1. For the period of you being at uni (but not later than 26 years of age) you pay no personal income tax unless you cross the second tax bracket of 85K PLN. Whatever you make over 85K PLN is taxed at 32%. During uni most people work on a contract, and you don't pay for health insurance since you're a student. So for that period, brutto = netto.
2. After 2-3 years of experience you start crossing the 2nd tax bracket and you're probably finishing up your degree. This is the time where some people start 1-person company and sign a contract with one company and just work full time under that. You can make eg. 17k PLN/mo brutto and take home 12k PLN netto/mo - that's more than double the national average.
In a small city, a post-soviet apartment costs 250k PLN. Something more modern and spacious is 450k - this is ~5+ years of savings to buy an apartment with cash.
Pretty sure globally there are better places than this, but comparing to non-programmers in Poland who can save 1-2k/mo and need to take a 20 year long mortgate it's just straight up cheating.
Now that 1 EUR = ~4.6 PLN (price record) and the govt is going to release their "Polish New Order" plan it's less so, but so far it's been good.

^-- Look at that shit. How ironic that "Reddit spacing" means "readable".

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