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/g/ - Technology

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>> No.78999552

>XWayland stand-alone package
Unironically that's a pretty nice thing, although in a year or so I am not sure what the average user that does not game will need XWayland for.

>> No.78999565

OK, but where's my minimal floating compositor?

>> No.78999610

take your pick

>> No.78999688

Problem is they're all hilariously underdeveloped and half of them are keyboard-only autism. Also I kinda doubt I can just slap a compositor on there like I can in X11 to get my fancy effects when I feel like it because they're already compositors.
Also looking at that website in the OP the only notification daemon uses d-bus. I'd like one that works without it such as herbe or xnotify. Also is there a non-bloated non-castrated gui file manager that runs natively on Wayland? All the site lists are Dolphin and Nautilus.

>> No.78999702

Nigga, it's $CURRENT_YEAR. Why the fuck are you still running your X server as root?

>> No.78999784

It's unfortunate that X.org is the only viable alternative for desktop Linux in 2020.

>> No.78999851

For the file manager, every application using GTK3 or Qt5 should support Wayland by default. Unless I am missing something, you should be able to use PCManFM without issues.

>> No.78999874

This. Imagine still not using Xenocara in 20 fucking 20.

>> No.78999876

>daily wayland bait thread

>> No.78999914

well Xfce is about to become unbearable anyway thanks to CSDs so you're gonna have to do something

>> No.78999945


>> No.78999949

unironically this. KDE has so much fucking shit I'll never use

>> No.78999952
File: 1.23 MB, 1342x1080, 1581195259584.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Never forget what Xtards are shilling.

Sit back and watch them rationalize that your system is actually supposed to be an insecure piece of shit and you should use Android instead.

>> No.78999994

You mean gnome? They brag about being "official" now? What a bunch of niggers

>> No.78999998


>> No.79000002

Literally just install Xenocara and all your security concerns will be addressed, retard.

>> No.79000006

You sound like the amazon Q&A section

>> No.79000055

>Backwards compatibility trumps IBM sponsorship.
IBM has put more money into X11 than they ever did into wayland

>> No.79000074

You can just install the "plasma-desktop" package and you will have only the bare essentials.

>> No.79000075

Those users threw themselves under the bus by relying on the half dozen or so incomplete gnome forks that can barely even find time to backport security patches

>> No.79000087

no nvidia support on wayland

>> No.79000108

Xenocara doesn't solve that. It would violate the X11 protocol if it did.
I bet you have never actually used it.

>> No.79000122

That doesn't matter. Right now they are actively sabotaging X11 by hijacking release management.

>> No.79000143

Name one person who the release management was hijacked from

>> No.79000146


>> No.79000181

The release manager is a full time paid IBM employee. He acts in the interest of IBM. He also singlehandesly declared X11 "obsolete" without consulting the comunity. It's sabotage.

>> No.79000303

Indeed I don't mind when IBMs interest align with those of the FOSS community.
Right now they clearly don't. And they have shown that through their actions.

>> No.79000330
File: 26 KB, 380x349, 1598010638020.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

keep dreaming bud

>> No.79000396

apps expect you to decorate their window.

>> No.79000398

The interests of the FOSS community are having a display server protocol that actually works.

>> No.79000443

>Right now they clearly don't

ok, so fork your own Xorg cuck.

>> No.79000637
File: 60 KB, 659x534, 1575525920074.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm not joking either, that's all one after another.
How the fuck did this blow up again?

>> No.79000642

How are you retards actually thinking that this is a problem? Not being able to capture global input on ur own computer is turbo cucked.

>> No.79000743

How do you think volume controls, or the keyboard works on UNIX?
Wayland has this same "issue", your point is shit.

>> No.79000795

>Rape victims and sex trafficked individuals should not use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation because RMS has some chip on his shoulder about sexual assault accusations
Sorry anons but this is pure wingnut retardation, it blew up because he had a decades long pattern of saying stupid shit like this

>> No.79000833

this is a pretty cool wayland bait thread. no one uses wayland, faggot, kill yourself asap

>> No.79000849

That's not what he's saying. Read it again.

>> No.79000866

>can't run multiple WM at once
into the trash it goes.

>> No.79000878

Ok I read it again and it gets worse every time I read it
>it is absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation

>> No.79000924

>talking about sex in a technology thread
into the trash it goes

>> No.79000940

I use it. The performance seems better than xorg so far.

>> No.79000999

>it is absolutely wrong to use the term “sexual assault” in an accusation
It is, being accused of sexual assault is a serious accusation. It should not be tossed around because it often leads to the accusation inflation Stallman was talking about.

>> No.79001005

Can you even do that reliably on X?

>> No.79001034

stallman did nothing wrong and his only detractors are pro-nigger social justice faggots who would have hated him anyway because he's white

>> No.79001048

women are not people and do not deserve rights

>> No.79001071

>even if you were actually sexually assaulted
Yes, because it's very hard to prove that something is sexual assault as per the definition. An autistic point to argue, but this is Stallman after all.

>> No.79001166

GNU's Not Unix.
But you didn't even understand the problem, it seems.

The absolute state of Nvidia shills.

>> No.79001183

The Ubuntu dock lags on Wayland.
Anyone know how to fix this?

>> No.79001186


>> No.79001345

works currently on wayland too.

>> No.79001365

GNOME is quite literally part of the GNU project. It is the official GNU DE.

>> No.79001382

>It is the official GNU DE
What about GNUStep?

>> No.79001383


>> No.79001534

>>multiple sessions
Define sessions. I am talking about where there is one X server supporting hundreds of clients. Wayland cannot do this because it is not part of a server/client model.

>> No.79001549

You left out this part
>Freedom man says because of this series of evens you are now no longer allowed to accuse someone else of sexual assault ever

>> No.79001606

>GNU's Not Unix
I wish it wasn't.

>> No.79001612

Neither of those have anything to do with wayland.

>> No.79001637

>All sexual abuse is fake and doesn't exist because freedom man said so
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79001684

Hahaha, freetards on suicide watch. Happy to use Windows 10.

>> No.79001702

Are you not aware that you need root to inspect it? And that instead xinput works without root?

>> No.79001720

Poettering hasn't contributed a single line to any Wayland compositor nor to the Wayland protocol itself.

Seriously, why does /g/ have an obsession with talking about things they clearly know nothing about?

>> No.79001735

Because it's not a working system, see >>78999952

>> No.79001752

How is this bait supposed to work???

>> No.79001774

>having this trash named official DE of your whole commie movement
I just find it hilarious, dude. Whatever!

>> No.79001782

No it is not, it can be mitigated. Qubes uses X and does not have this issue.
>Needs access to LD_PRELOAD.
Regular users have access to LD_PRELOAD.
>Needs root.
There are other ways to get the data from these files.

>> No.79001801

>write X server in Rust that translates X calls to Wayland calls without using any Xorg code
>all the X apps work without changing code, getting all the benefits of wayland
>Wayland people just working to make X better in the end
Imagine getting cucked like this

>> No.79001805
File: 81 KB, 446x435, 1600941439548.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

not using gayland
not eating bugs
seethe and dilate

>> No.79001878

>Innocent until proven guilty means that you should ruin peoples lives with false claims while you still can
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79001887


sudo -i chattr +i .bashrc

Repeat for every file of interest. No, making it "owned by root" is a placebo solution which doesn't even work: you user can still delete and recreate the file, if it has write permissions to your home directory (which is almost certainly going to be the case).

>> No.79001917

>Being held accountable for your behavior is having your life ruined
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79002048

>Yes it is
The behavior of X broadcasting your keystrokes is not vital to its functioning.
>Qubes mitigations break other shit
You're confusing the patches with VMs and proper file control. Also, I've had no real issues with Qubes.
>it's the same problem you complain about with wayland
No? List what I was complaining about
>Because it uses VMs.
And proper file control, both of which you can do on distributions other than Qubes, but I was using it as an example.
>You can't realistically change the environment of a running program.
Why are you assuming that the program is already running?
>All of which require superuser privileges.
Please see >>79001813

>> No.79002064

>Not being held accountable for ruining peoples lives
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79002086

It's not a "backronym". It was was always intended to be an acronym for that since day 1. Maybe you don't really understand what "backronym" means.

See https://www.gnu.org/gnu/po/thegnuproject.nl-diff.html
>The principal goal of GNU is to be free software. Even if GNU had no
>technical advantage over Unix, it would have a social advantage,
>allowing users to cooperate, and an ethical advantage, respecting the
>user's freedom.
>But it was natural to apply the known standards of good practice to
>the work—for example, dynamically allocating data structures to avoid
>arbitrary fixed size limits, and handling all the possible 8-bit codes
>wherever that made sense.

>In addition, we rejected the Unix focus on small memory size, by</wbr>

>> No.79002104

Your compositor should have a setting. Hotkey daemons are insecure bloat

>> No.79002105

/dev/input/* is root-owned, it gets assigned to your compositor and only your compositor via revokable file descriptors through a logind interface. Nothing except your compositor can read it.

>> No.79002132

>Your compositor should have a setting
sounds awful.

>> No.79002137

Why are wayland advocates so aggressive and rude? When X dies, it dies, for now it's working on my machine. I don't get these threads, they're nothing but circlejerk/bait

>> No.79002140

>In practice, it very much is a flavor of Unix.
Calling it a flavor of UNIX suggests some kind of inheritance, which is false.
It's like calling Pepsi a flavor of Coke.
If you already have to use the "UNIX" name, call it an UNIX-like system or UNIX-clone.
GIMP is not a flavor of Photoshop.

>> No.79002157

>It's okay to ruin someone's life as long as you do it by raping them and not making a rape accusation against them
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79002164

*UNIX clone

>> No.79002167

>Nothing except your compositor can read it
And the tools that the compositor makes available, see sway-input and swapmsg

>> No.79002169
File: 52 KB, 640x628, 1603124544659.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Second this.
All the Xorg/Wayland flame war is pointless to me, at this point it feels like a /pol/ forced meme.
I don't care about it, I just want a WORKING graphical server where I can use the 4 or 5 GUI programs I regularly use and terminal emulator.

>> No.79002176

>Why are wayland advocates so aggressive and rude?
When people outright lie to promote insecure software that should have been ditched decades ago just to rationalize their waste of money on a toy GPU, it's hard not to get angry.

>> No.79002242

What makes the part of your compositor that handles hotkeys secure?

>> No.79002254

No one promotes Xorg. It's just the thing that currently works while the supposed replacement still fucking doesn't.

>> No.79002265

>Want to start making the switch?
no fuck off

>> No.79002282

It doesn't send all keystrokes off to random processes without permission

>> No.79002290

>hotkey daemons are insecure bloat
>just install a monolithic desktop environment which handles everything for you, unix philosophy is bloat

>> No.79002346

>Proper file control is necessary, but not sufficient for proper security. No amount of file control can save X11 unless you use hard sandboxing such as VMs.
It is the same of Wayland sadly.
>Because that's where it would actually be a problem.
Yes, because nobody reboots their machines ever.
>That guy is wrong. None of those tools can keylog without elevated privileges.
Please see man 5 sway-input

>> No.79002351

A compositor must already handle global keybinds to implement shortcuts for window moving, resizing, etc. Having a second daemon to do it is needless duplication of functionality and bloat and goes against the unix philosophy of having one program to do one thing well.

>> No.79002391

>A compositor must already handle global keybinds to implement shortcuts for window moving, resizing, etc
A window manager can do without it, so why can't a compositor?

>> No.79002414

OK mgtow incel

>> No.79002447
File: 832 KB, 925x842, 1553522123607.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

great argument

>> No.79002495

>being held accountable for your behavior
>every rape accusation is false
>there are no true rape accusations
>true, provable claims of rape ruin innocent rapist lives
>men would never do something like falsely accuse someone of lying for pity points and vengeance
>we should automatically assume guilt of the accuser rather than innocence
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79002521

Well X11 is untrusted software and I don't run that, so I'm good.

>> No.79002577

"assume guilt of the accuser" doesnt mean fuck all
the burden of proof is on the accusing party
when the accusing party only has to accuse for most of the damage to be done, due process is out of the window and the assumption of innocence of both parties doesn't really fucking matter does it
>innocent rapist lives
i like your strawman argument but it's just baseless
not even a mgtow incel faggot, i just think you're a sheep retard

>> No.79002593

ok NPC

>> No.79002626

This fake 'security' to prevent you from controlling your computer is absolutely insane.
Imagine not being able to have a global shortcut because some 'malicious' software could read your keyboard while bragging that you use only free software.

>> No.79002687

>This fake 'security' to prevent you from controlling your computer is absolutely insane.
How is anyone prevented from controlling their computer?
>Imagine not being able to have a global shortcut because some 'malicious' software could read your keyboard while bragging that you use only free software.
Imaging installing keyloggers and viruses and bragging that nothing bad will happen because the keylogger and virus are free software

>> No.79002694
File: 51 KB, 600x656, 1542656048989.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

cool dude lol you'll get laid soon white knighting feminist talking points and refusing to have a fundamental understanding of the justice system

>> No.79002751

>only I understand the justice system therefore you are not allowed to accuse someone of crimes even if you have proof
It gets worse every time you post

>> No.79002831

>This is incorrect as many applications need keyboard and pointer grabs and will break without them
Wrong, see Qubes once again. X and Applications work fine.
>No, I'm not
Yes you are
>Qubes works for what it does but you're trolling if you think the average computer user is going to bother with it
The average computer user is using a smartphone.
>Some shit about how you need X for backwards compatibility, when your mitigations break backwards compatibility
I never argued this, you must be confusing me with someone else.
>You cannot inject shell variables into another process unless you are the parent process calling fork/exec, you know nothing about unix
You seem to know nothing about dynamic linking.
>It's not
It is, proper file control and VMs are the only way to stop keyloggers like this.
>A pwned machine is a pwned machine, this is irrelevant to display protocols deciding not to supply built in keyloggers
It is not irrelevant at all, we're arguing this because attackers can take advantage of built-in keyloggers yes? If not, then why care?

>> No.79002844

im not even the faggot you're talking to, accusation isn't a problem, i dont agree with the stalman conjecture. when the accusation assumes guilt automatically, it is naive and disingenuous to say the accusation of sexual assault is just like any other crime
you can pursue someone in court without a public lynching
if you have infallible proof and win your court case, who the fuck gives a shit, publicly defame the fucker all day. the problem arises when innocent people are caught in the crossfire

>> No.79002855

You know being called an incel is a complement here right?

>> No.79003421

k retard

>> No.79003718

I hate Xorg so fucking much yet I'm too retarded to use Wayland, what does that make me

>> No.79003744

A retard. Drop the autism and grow up. Install Fedora GNOME.

>> No.79003816

>here comes the "trusted software" retard again
There is no such thing as "trusted software. You're running untrusted nonfree JavaScript right now.
>it's sandboxed!
Then you agree that security measures are useful and important.

>> No.79003834

I agree. Why have virtual memory at all then? Why shouldn't my programs be allowed to read my passwords from my password manager's memory space whenever they want? Preventing them from doing so is fake security, it prevents me from controlling my computer.

>> No.79004154

I don't see any "random processes without permission".
I see two programs explicitly launched by the user who obviously wanted that behavior.

>> No.79004179

>There is no such thing as "trusted software.
Yeah there is.

>> No.79004194

Any program connected to the X server can do that without the user wanting it

>> No.79004213

If the user doesn't want it they shouldn't execute the programs.

>> No.79004261

Any program connected to the X server can keylog all keys without the user noticing
See >>78999952

>> No.79004271

How long until Arcan is the default display server?

>> No.79004277

>program connected to the X server
>without the user noticing

>> No.79004278

This is why freetards are mentally ill cultists.

>> No.79004345

The design of X11 allows programs executed by someone else on some other remote computer to connect to the server

>> No.79004373

>by someone else on some other remote computer
Who would trust their unencrypted data to a remote computer regardless of protocol?
Not even hardware MMU's can protect you as evident by latest CPU exploits.

>> No.79004466

The design of X11 allows programs executed by someone else on some other remote computer to connect to the server and receive all keystrokes

>> No.79004495

>Wayland has this same "issue"
No, they found a solution.

>> No.79004513

if i wanted a phone desktop i would use Android.
Wayland is competing against embedded devices while trying to replace the desktop, you have to be brain dead to use wayland in any shape of form, anything that escapes the ivory tower of philosophical retardation doesn't work in wayland.

I will wait another decade or so until you idiots figure out your abomination.

>> No.79004530

>anything that doesn't allow keylogging and other malware is a phone desktop
absolute state of Xbabbies

>> No.79004586

its not keylogging its a feature of X if you want isolated software isolate it your self, there is plenty other methods to do so.
its like complaining that a web add is registering your cursor movements, its their fucking site you dumb fuck.

>> No.79004623

>stop being intentionally retarded
Anon I'm not, that's you. Modern browsers are slowly phasing out HTTP because it is not secure. It would be a large problem if firefox or chrome didn't do this

>> No.79004906

Name me one wm that is as good as xmonad and is dynamic and as configurable. Name me status bar as comfy as polybar. Sway is an i3 replica, the replica for xmonad is waymonad and it is fucking xmonad castrated with a lobotomized frontal lobe and aids. Also Nvidia does work so anyone who has Nvidia are fucked and have to buy amd.

>> No.79005044

Linux is such a meme
Completely insecure outside of being anything more than just a dumb fileserver

>> No.79005123

>201 replies, 50 ips
fucks sake bruce give it a rest

>> No.79005248

>x11 at least has access control hooks.
>op demonstrates the only usable and existing implementation has buffer overflows
>m-muh ACLs bro
>t-totally not useless security theater.

>> No.79005276

how about make your own stupid cuck? no one has to name or feed you shit. you wanna be a retard and use broken garbage no one cares about? then do so, but it's broken garbage and you're a massive faggot and a sperg.

>> No.79005346

Kys fucking faggot no one worth a grain of salt has time for that shit, you have time for that you neckbeard go ahead. Xmonad rocks and your stupid wayland will never be thing in 5 years minimum.

>> No.79005413

nothing is stopping you from doing this right now. it is not a property of X and you're a nocoder faggot.

>> No.79005426

In a decade Xorg will still be the de facto windowing system because Wayland is still mostly unusable.

>> No.79005466

In a decade Wayland will be the de facto windowing system because there will be nobody left maintaining Xfeces and the myriad of GNOME forks that will have increasingly less reasons to be used over GNOME and KDE.

>> No.79005470

>one-man endeavor for more than a half decade

>> No.79005583

Only if you use normie sway, kde or gnome

>> No.79005777

Xorg can't be fixed because it's broken by design
>forces glitchy, buggy compositing bullshit, fails to work with tons of things, and is generally slow, buggy, and full of fucking bugs OVER TEN YEARS after its fucking release. Wayland isn't the fucking solution.
Works for me, stop using a shitty unstable unusable distro

>> No.79005784

Red Hat == Poettering

>> No.79005924

gayland nigger please go

>> No.79005926

>broken by design
It's worked for fucking forever, as has XFree86, kid.
>shitty unstable unusable distro
So all distros are "shitty unstable unusable distros"? Because Wayland is garbage on all of them. Gee, seems like the only common thing among them all that otherwise works fine without it is... hmm, oh yeah. Wayland.
"Shitty, unstable, unusable" applies to Wayland and nothing else.
I still 100% believe Wayland's snobby little devs who think they're too cool to maintain Xorg are the ones behind this bullshit. "WE CANT FIX XORG! WAYLAND IS STABLE! PLEASE USE OUR PILE OF SHIT WE HACKED TOGETHER IN FIVE MINUTES! BAWWW!!! WE DON'T WANT TO BE AN XORG MAINTAINER THAT'S BORING!!!"

>> No.79005947

arcan is the future

>> No.79006016

arcan is a wayland compositor

>> No.79008899


>> No.79009042

Yes, I've read the same 10 years ago. LOL

>> No.79009296

>hilariously underdeveloped
yeah, wish dwl would get more love along with velox and swvkc.
>keyboard only autism
but it's comfy.
>fancy effects
wayfire supposedly has a lot of effects but I haven't tried it.
what's the problem with this?

>> No.79009345

>>While Red Hat developers previously worked to manage X.Org Server releases, there isn't much upside to that these days and they would rather ship a standalone XWayland package for Fedora users rather than go through the process of new xorg-server releases.
Redhat again confirmed for trying to kill the linux desktop
Just because their shitty gnome project does use wayland

>> No.79009348

Currrent X.org maintainers haven't done anything at all in over a decade other than merging driver code that other people wrote. So why the threats that it will go unmaintained? Do it, IBM, just abandon X11 and let the Xenocara people take the project over.

>> No.79009385

why do people shill for X11 again? wayland was made by the some of the same people.

>> No.79009402

None of the Wayland people had even graduated High School when X11 was made. You always say this, it's clearly in your script.

>> No.79009483

>Currrent X.org maintainers haven't done anything at all in over a decade other than merging driver code that other people wrote
This is wrong. Xorg hasn't had drivers merged in tree since 15 years ago

>Do it, IBM, just abandon X11 and let the Xenocara people take the project over.
Which Xenocara people? Why can't they do it now?

>> No.79009748

>this thread again

>> No.79009776

>So just give up the helm already
Give up the helm to what?

>Xenocara's OpenBSD's fork of X.org
This is wrong

>The goal of Xenocara is to provide a framework to host local modifications and to automate the build of the modular X.Org components, including 3rd party packages and some software maintained by OpenBSD developers. It is not a fork.
>It is not a fork.

>> No.79009814

does xbmc wayland

>> No.79010824

yeah, it's the same guy, he keeps spamming this gay thread and he also spams these fucking stupid github code alternative software links for people who say such and such software doesn't work in wayland, so he'll post the link to some wayland hack that you have to build yourself. gaaaaaaaaaay, just use xorg like everyone on the planet. these shill threads are stale as fuck

>> No.79011084

>Give up the helm to what?
Just stop pretending IBM wants to spend money on the competing solution, X.org. That's all. It's obvious that there's this roundabout campaign to essentially cancel X11 but nobody wants to say "I DID THIS" but we can all tell IBM did this.

So why doesn't IBM just cancel its support for X.org through their donations of money and developer hours and resources? Because they want to KILL it, not just pass it to the next people.

Back up your source tree now. Who knows when they will just cancel the project.

>> No.79011381

there's a wayland implementation of kodi which i guess is useful if you don't want to pull Xorg in for a media center machine

>> No.79011425

It has a DRM/KMS backend too, better off with that if not running anything else graphical

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