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/g/ - Technology


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72168313 No.72168313 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

You've been tasked with conserving 500gb of data indefinitely. What method do you think you could use to make sure not a single bit of that data is ever changed?

>> No.72168328

Maybe an array of duplicate discs/SSDs constantly checking against each other to deal with high energy particles switching bits? Or put it deep deep deep underground?

>> No.72168345

500tb of parity files

>> No.72168382

I just redundantly store it on S3.

There's no such thing as 100% and someone else already solved the cost optimization problem. A duplicated S3 gives you (1-0.99999999999)^2 yearly data retention and costs virtually nothing.

>> No.72168393

Something that is spooky to me: I go on youtube to watch a music video from before 2011 and 1080p is no longer offered when I knew it was before. Am I watching the video file degrade before my eyes?

>> No.72168396

>>72168345
What would you store them on? SSDs? HDDs? Magnetic tape?

A actually I suppose the MOST reliable way to store digital data is to print the binary code onto gold tablets and store them inside of a led lined vault deep underground.

>> No.72168401

>>72168313

so infinite funds?

buy millions of ssd usb sticks with 500 gb and place them all over the world,

laser the 500 gb information into some kind of metal burry it some place in the world with lots of security around, rinse and repeat.

maybe send some to space

>> No.72168409

>>72168382
Yeah but then you don't have a fun thought exercise. This is about 100% retention. That's what makes it difficult

>> No.72168431

>>72168401
Wouldn't HHDs be better than SSDs so you dont have to worry as much about it running out of juice.

>> No.72168437

>>72168382

amazone goes bakrupt in year 3023 everything is lost

>> No.72168451

>>72168313
blockchain

>> No.72168466

Actually I think storing the data on physical tablets isn't the safest method. What if a natural disaster destroys the tablets? I have a better idea. Do the tablet method and distribute them around the world while constantly broadcasting the data out into space. That way even if humanity died and the entire earth was destroyed the data would still be traveling through space at the speed of light for thousands of years. Sure CATCHING that data would require FTL travel but OP never mentioned we had to be able to get to it.

>>72168396
*Lead lined

>> No.72168475

Basically you get to set up a cult devoted to maintaining your data.

Reliability of the storage medium isn't your biggest concern, once you get into time periods measured in decades. Your problem is that different media standards and file formats and operating systems and so on come into use and the old ones fade away. Say you have a bunch of eight-inch floppy disks from the 70s, stored in a cool, humidity-controlled environment. The disks are almost certainly still legible. But do you have an eight-inch floppy drive? If you do, do you have a machine that can talk to it? Does it run an operating system that understands the filesystem on those disks? If so, do you have software that can still read whatever format the files are in?

You can't anticipate this ahead of time, either. In the late 70s eight-inch floppies were pretty common, and using them to store things was a sensible choice. Then the IBM PC took over the world, and it had been born with smaller 5.25" drives. Those became common and 8" went extinct rapidly. Then 5.25" died as everyone moved to 3.5", and now you have a hard time finding a machine with ANY floppy drive.

The only way around this is active maintenance. Someone needs to be around to read the data every few years, transfer it to new media and new file formats. There's no way to save things by just writing them once and leaving them alone. Unmaintained data crumbles away to dust and there's nothing you can do about that.

>> No.72168480

>>72168431

i think i rather go with the metal tablet that has the info physcially engraved into it instead

OP never said it should be easy to get the data back or anythnig just that it does not disapear

>> No.72168485

>>72168313
Etch the data in fundamental quantum constants

>> No.72168507

>>72168409
Smarter men than us have done this thought exercise. It's physically impossible to get to actual 100%. And getting to "1 byte decay per lifetime of the universe" is just a matter of redundantly implementing all the known techniques.

These big companies put billions of dollars into solving the easy problem of figuring out how reliable storage mediums and storage techniques as well as the hard problem of figuring how to arrange these infrastructures in a way that they can practically be accessed, maintained, and modified.

What you're asking for is the data equivalent of a perpetual motion machine.

>>72168437
Just jump ship. This ain't no exhentai neckbearded sysadmin baby throwing a tantrum; it's a multi-billion-dollar company. You'll KNOW when they're going out of business.

>> No.72168515

Create a monastery with an order of monks who must maintain the files integrity.
Have two temples in safe locations well above sea level and far enough apart that natural disasters are unlikely to affect both.

Copy the data to multiple HDDs, 10 for each temple. Have 2 checksums for the data - sha256 and sha512. Carve these checksums onto metal slabs so that they won't get lost or degraded.

Every 5 years the monks must copy the files to new HDDs as part of their ritual and test the integrity after.

>> No.72168522

>>72168475
I think the biggest problem with constantly transferring the data into new mediums is that it runs the risk of slightly changing the information. Remember, the goal is to make sure the file is 100% the same. Bit for bit. Unless the technology of the past is actually lost an older format won't be unreadable. If scientists 500 years from now found a floppy disc and REALLY wanted to read its contents they could just build an old PC.

>> No.72168562

>>72168507
>"1 byte decay per lifetime of the universe"

wat? so then the universe die, we only lose 1 byte? i would assume everything is lost then

>> No.72168563
File: 282 KB, 1200x1200, 1200px-KL_CoreMemory.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168563

Here's a cool storage method most people don't know about. NASA had to come up with a light weight and robust method of memory storage for the apollo missions. Their solution? Literal strings of wire HAND WOVEN into configurations of rope to execute code on an electromechanical basis.

>> No.72168567

>>72168313
Buy 20 different dedicated servers around the world and have them host copies of the data, if one provider is going to go under just swap to another. You could also replicate the same thing with small devboards like pi's just thrown around the place with a copy and an internet connection

>> No.72168578

>>72168313
inscribed rocks

>> No.72168588

>>72168313
i'll just put it on my SSD

>> No.72168593

>>72168507
You CAN get 100%. It's just a question of how long. I could make a computer by hand out of a few logic gates with a couple bytes of memory and it would be able to retain that memory for decades until the logic gates decayed. It's just a question of scaling it up.

>> No.72168596

>>72168563
How does this work?

>> No.72168606
File: 159 KB, 800x1139, tmp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168606

>>72168313

>> No.72168612

>>72168515
We're also going to have to arm these monks. We cant run the risk of a religious purge in the 2700s wiping them out and destroying our 500gb of anime. Allocate 3 billion dollars to outfit the monks with military grade weaponry.

>> No.72168615
File: 5 KB, 224x150, template.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168615

>>72168313
Store it on some HDD's, pack it on a spaceship, and YEET it into interstellar space, where you can just stomp on those brakes, and get that ship to a stop.

Interstellar space is extremely close to absolute zero, practically on it. So no particle will be able to move on its own. And thanks to space actually stretching this spaceship will NEVER find another star to warm it.

>> No.72168624

>>72168563

looks like it would be easy for one of the string to snap though, why not etch it like some other read only chip?

>> No.72168662
File: 354 KB, 625x380, Inca_Quipu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168662

>>72168563
>beats you by a couple of millennia
Heh, nothing personal, Americans.

>> No.72168699

>>72168606
"You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall make no idols.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Keep the Sabbath day holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet."

This has 336 characters. If encoded in ASCII it's going to take 2688 bits. You might use more if it was in the original latin and you could probably shrink it using Kanji. Either way, this is much less than the 4000000000000 bits required to store 500gb of anime. God had it easy.

>> No.72168749

>>72168313
Simply report back, whenever asked, that all the data is ok. Keep spending maintenance money on hookers and blow.

>> No.72168752

>>72168624
Because this method is much lighter than other methods of data storage at the time. It's also immune to radiation changing bits. Keep in mind the origional Apollo guidance computers only had 4 16 bit registers to work with. Even one bit in that going off would be catastrophic.

>> No.72168769

>>72168624
Also these are very short strings and made of copper. They aren't going to be swaying around or anything.

>> No.72168771
File: 168 KB, 1920x800, 02_20_53.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168771

>>72168451
10thpbp

some sort of p2p fs (like but NOT ipfs).

It's literally the only way to ensure that it's redundant.

>> No.72168778 [DELETED] 

>>72168313
Just use some SSD's or baka and just leave them laying on the ground.
There is probability that nothing will happen to them for next X years, very small, but still.

>> No.72168783

>>72168563
>magnetic core memory
>literal magic technology invented for Apollo

Get >>>/out/ zoomer.

>> No.72168829

>>72168662

i just checked this out in wikipedia, and it says that nobody knows what this means, even the incas have forgotten the code they used. make you think.

maybe storing things in binary code is not enough, if you dont know the interpretation like the mapping from bianry to ascii. or from binary to pixel placement and colors

>> No.72168839
File: 864 KB, 620x721, Mjk1NzE5Mw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168839

>>72168783
I posted the wrong image. That is an image of magnetic core tech which was invented in the 40s but I about is Core Rope Memory which functions differently and actually was invented by NASA for the Apollo missions.

>> No.72168851

>>72168839
>but I about is Core Rope Memory
Typo. Meant to say "but what I was talking about is Core Rope Memory"

>> No.72168857

>>72168475
What was written on those disks lost all relevance anyway, and it happened in just a couple of decades.

>> No.72168878

>>72168507
Google throws exhentai-tier tantrums, why amazon can't?

>> No.72168884
File: 601 KB, 1027x1635, SmartSelect_20190803-144924_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72168884

>>72168783
>Getting Magnetic Core Memory mixed up with Core Rope Memory and then trying to call someone else a zoomer

>> No.72168898

>>72168475
Someone was left behind to keep the Heaven's Gate site up...

>> No.72168899

>>72168313
Punch cards.

>> No.72168925

>>72168899
>It rains
>Moths come and eat the paper
>Mistakenly shred by secretary hired for diversity quotas
>Coffe spilled onto cards

>> No.72168932

>>72168313
I believe the Scientologists use like titanium plates with the data etched into them or something

>> No.72169021

>>72168925
Just store them sensibly then.

>> No.72169029

>>72168393
isn't that googs just trying to save every bit it can?
I'm sure they do even more compression after the fact.

>> No.72169044

>>72168925
Laminate them like a civilized person

>> No.72169079
File: 202 KB, 512x1024, tmp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72169079

>>72168699
It can be compact.

Also anime from 80s is quite irrelevant, and it's only 30 years old.

>> No.72169096

>>72168884
The picture in the original post was magnetic core memory, not core rope

>> No.72169212

>>72168925
Coffee won't destroy punch cards.

>> No.72169267

>>72168401
>buy millions of ssd usb sticks with 500 gb and place them all over the world,
Useless. NAND flash loses data over time if not powered on.

>> No.72169315
File: 278 KB, 844x629, moon-laser-rangefinder.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72169315

>>72168313
Laser etch the 1s & 0s on the surface of the moon. Encrypted of course.

>> No.72169333
File: 1.99 MB, 3351x2219, swings-and-roundabouts-4f006c2ad8eed_hires.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72169333

>>72169212
No, but the acid in the paper already will.

Anon would spend more time and resources getting the old valve computer to read and interpret and finding a way to hermetically and vacuum seal the the paper than he would being able to akshully archive it. Let alone finding a warehouse space that will still be there in a decade.

>>72168699
>God had it easy.
But god literally used p2p - get chump to scratch out story, make sure it's passed from person to person (iterated generationally if possible).
Sure there's a bit of Purple Monkey Dishwasher but for the most part the message stayed the same...

>> No.72169345

>>72168313
"Hire" a couple billion chinks to hand carve the data into gold or something and gently set it on the moon.

>> No.72169579

>>72169345
We're not providing them with a way back right?

>> No.72169681

>>72168925
you forgot Florida

>> No.72169693

>>72168396
>gold
chisel into stone if you actually care about preservation, retard

>> No.72169707

>>72168313
Look for the 500GB sequence in PI, with some luck it'll happen to be just beyond the current most distant digit we've calculated. Then exterminate all human life on earth except for one line of human that has been genetically engineered to contain this sequence in a highly conserved part of the DNA, similarily to the known universally conserved ncRNAs. Do the same for all other life forms.

>> No.72169729

>>72169707
>genetically engineered to contain this sequence

The sequence of numbers that identifies the 500GB string in PI that is.

>> No.72169780

>>72168313
depends on how indefinite you're talking about, but making 5D optical data storage more of a thing and writing it onto a pair of those quartz discs would do it.

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