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/g/ - Technology

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65087425 No.65087425 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

Sing me up, F A M.

>> No.65087443
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Sounds right up Neural Link's alley ..

>> No.65087464
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>When you realize we are just a brain with eyes and nervous wires piloting a bio mech

>> No.65087480


>> No.65087495

Is that brain supposed to be that color?
I know about grey matter and white matter, but it seems like "brown matter" is a different thing entirely.

>> No.65087527

The owner was a smoker, dumbass.

>> No.65087587
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oh man that hit me way harder than it should have

>> No.65087652

>When you realise that the head and hands are the only useful body parts and the rest are just there to keep them alive and move them between useful locations.

>> No.65087670

You use your dick to move between locations? Weird.

>> No.65087672

normally it isnt, but on weed/linux it is

>> No.65087689

He said useful.

>> No.65087694


Regarding nature the by far most useful and important bodypart is what's between your legs and the connected inner organs.

>> No.65087709

So I won't even wake up 1000 years in the future inside a robot body, I will simply die and maybe some time in the future somebody will use my preserved brain as a template for an AI or something?

>> No.65087723

You never come into contact with cooked meat? Are you an eskimo or something?

>> No.65087742

The real part of us is spiritual. We're just chained to these things for a while

>> No.65087747

man, I haven't had walnuts in forever

>> No.65087749

>When you realize that your brain is hallucinating based on what your sensory organs are telling it.

>> No.65087756

How would you feel if you found out you were the clone of someone too vain to die

>> No.65087772
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Maybe you'll wake up in hundreds or thousands of robot bodies

>> No.65087782

fucking kek

>> No.65087815

No my brain will be dead, nothing can bring it back to life after the embalming process, it is simply preserved in pristine condition for study.

However any robots that would use my brain's data in the future would have my memories.

>> No.65087881

Your physical brain would be dead, but if the robots have your memories and think they're you, would they not ostensibly be you? What are you if not your thoughts?
It's the same philosophical question as the teleporter clone argument.

>> No.65088030

They're be "me" insofar as I am me, but not "me" to myself, as in the consciousness local to this brain that you're communicating with now, if you catch my drift. Basically to others the clones would be "me" insofar as they can discern, but to myself the clones wouldn't, as I can only consciously accept myself in my current biological form as "me", as creating a copy of my brain wouldn't split my consciousness but duplicate it instead - the duplicates would not be "me" to me if we were to live simultaneously.

>> No.65088131

You're black aren't you

>> No.65088156

anynone willing to upload their consciousness, dead or alive, is taking a HUUUGGEEE gamble

>> No.65088180

Yeah, they would be exactly just like me but I would still be dead forever.

>> No.65088192

Is that the player character in SOMA? Looks like how I remember he / it looked.

>> No.65088212

I haven't had sex is years
Humans 1, Nature 0

>> No.65088223

Yeah, that was the reference

>> No.65088235

Yep last I heard we can't even accurately model the functions of a single neuron.

No fucking way we're anywhere near being able to accurately record all the electrical, chemical, and genetic information in the brain. And yes genetic info we just recently learned that nerves can literally change each others genetics and that this is essential to learning.

All things considered a realistic accurate mind uploading would need to sequence the DNA of each individual neuron in the whole fucking body period, do a mass chemical analysis of all the various signalling chemicals used in the body, and record the vast numbers of cycling electrical signals in the body.
Yeah overall this is gonna take a robotic death machine horrifically slicing you up alive over days to get probes close enough to record your pain while the rest of you is fed into electron microscopes to get the DNA sequence and chemical analysis.

I don't even think we have computers with the raw power and storage capacity to process the raw data from this into a complete mind uploading.

>> No.65088289

I would feel I was a pretty cool dude and my original was a pretty cool dude for creating me, obviously.
>but I would still be dead forever
Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletransportation_paradox before proceeding with this discussion.

>> No.65088331
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>> No.65088334

They can. You just need a specialized computer. Neurons, like everything else in your body, have extremely low spatial and power efficiency. With a proper computer size of a brain, you can emulate a population of a small city.

>> No.65088354

>is taking a HUUUGGEEE gamble
Obligatory: https://archive.fo/aTEuU

>> No.65088363


>> No.65088387

that's the best case scenario, but really who would want to do that?
the company will go bankrupt and the brains will get binned long before tech is in place

>> No.65088403

Owner was a nibba

>> No.65088446


>> No.65088458

Assuming Moore's Law holds true, maybe someday, but even then hardware is nothing without software
Current neural network programming runs fine (albeit slow) on 10 year old hardware, but the reason we didn't have it 10 years ago was because we didn't know how to do it
If we can't accurately model the brain we can't simulate it no matter how efficient the computer is

>> No.65088532

Religion answers this.
You are your soul. It is not unreasonable to think you are something humanity hasn't detected yet.
My soul is what I am. Like how we didn't know how memories worked until we could detect neurons firing in the brain.

>> No.65088552

That's wrong. Eventually any computer could learn to develop a brain, basically simulating a humans brain. It took us millions of years.

>> No.65088573

>It is not unreasonable to think you are something humanity hasn't detected yet.
But is it more likely than the alternative that we simple don't get how the brain works yet?

>> No.65088653

anyone posting on this board has no useful body parts

>> No.65088668

>not driving with your dick

>> No.65088674

If a self-improving algorithm could develop a form of intelligence, it's unreasonable to assume it would be anything like the human brain.

>> No.65088724

I specifically said that you need a specialized computer. Simulating a neuron is reasonably easy - there are accurate full simulations of tiny worms' neutral system - it's when you need gigabits upon gigabits of memory bandwidth to resolve thousands of connections for each of millions of neurons, you start having performance issues. A neuron simulation circuit bypasses those problems, Intel makes those tiny dies that run millions of neurons at several megahertz off of couple of watts.

Simulating a brain with today's technology isn't that hard, just don't expect to do it with your home computer.

>> No.65088823

fuck off faggot

>> No.65088867

A brain isn't just a clump of neurons. The specific interconnections matter, almost more than the neurons themselves, since humans have been shown to recover from traumatic losses in brain matter.
The simulated nematodes have about three hundred neurons, while the human brain has a hundred billion, with hundreds of trillions of synaptic connections. I'm not saying future hardware can't do really fast math, I'm saying good luck trying to build a model an entire brain on a cellular level.

>> No.65088910

The two aren't mutually exclusive

>> No.65088916

Then explain the human brain. The human brain is the peak of all of nature.

>> No.65088922

You'll die if you leave your cell, you know.

>> No.65088931

A nematode have been simulated because it's a reasonable effort to manually map out every single neuron in is body. Human brain is not simulated because manually mapping ~2 billion neurons in the human body is not a reasonable effort by any stretch of imagination.

>> No.65088932

Physically, but not mentally.

>> No.65088994

Because billions of years of evolution != a self improving computer algorithm unless your algorithm includes the entire history of life

>> No.65089055

Evolution is inefficient. It makes a lot of tiny random changes and see what sticks. This is why it takes millions of generations to get anywhere. Self improving computer make an estimate to what change will improve it's performance, and only does these. A deep learning network achieves same success as generic algorithm network in a fraction of the time. It is also much less prone to getting stuck at a local maximum.

>> No.65089149


mandatory reading. Don't get scammed by these fantasy enablers.

>> No.65089179

>Self improving computer make an estimate to what change will improve it's performance, and only does these.
That's pretty much what evolution does. Except, you know, it actually does it instead of this magic dreamland computer you're writing fan fic about.

>> No.65089224

>unless your algorithm includes the entire history of life
I totally agree, but without having (or simulating) a physical body with physical senses in a physical world, evolutionary pressure to survive and reproduce in world filled with hazard, learning to be a social being among other similar beings, cooperating with language, building tools, and millions of years of inherited experience through genetic memory... what you're creating is not human. It will be intelligent, for sure, but it will have no humanity. It will be fundamentally structurally different than the human mind. You will not be able to translate a human brain into this kind of AI. You will have created a unique intelligence that is its own kind of brain, not simulating a human one.

>> No.65089317


>> No.65089512

Self-improving algorithms need a goal and/or a metric of what ‘improvement’ is.
What is the goal of human evolution?

>> No.65089752


>> No.65089913
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>being so scared of death that you'd rather face the unfathomable torture that would entail billions of years of conscious existence until the inevitable cold-death of the universe
No thanks, doc.

>> No.65089974

>Assuming Moore's Law holds true
reminder that Moore's law hasn't held for years

>> No.65090074

It's funny because death isn't real

>> No.65090108
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>It's funny because death isn't real

dude what

>> No.65090187
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death implies that a 'you' exists to die in the first place. ego is an illusion when really there is only one 'essence' of the universe. Think of it like having a glass of water under the ocean, and then trying to empty the glass.

>> No.65090208

dude weed lmao

>> No.65090228

You could actually achieve unending subjective torture despite entropy.

>> No.65090233


>> No.65090245

So what are you saying, exactly? Does subjective experience end with death or not?

>> No.65090257
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Mah nigga.

Eastern philosophy is quite a hot thing, you should try it, anon.
You can learn to actually be okay with life.

>> No.65090264
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>> No.65090285

lmao what a brainlet

>> No.65090313

Subjective experience (and thus existence) begins and ends every moment. You're just a single thread, a thought. All "your" thoughts are just fleeting threads, and each of them thinks it's "you".

Think about it like this. Suppose I were to freeze all the atoms in your body right this instant, index them (atom #12309503939120391 is carbon and in position X:10234901923 Y:109501902349), and then instantly spread them around the galaxy. (i.e. you get vaporized)

Then, a heptrillion-quadrillion years from now, in another galaxy, I fetch just as many atoms as I need (n number of hydrogen, m number of carbon, etc.), and assemble them in the same configuration.

Would you have noticed? To "you", it would seem as though you had teleported and time-traveled. But that's the thing. You are not "you". Nothing is. The You you are right now is just someone with the illusion of consistency, of continuance.

>> No.65090316
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subjective experience ends with every moment my dude, if you want to think of it that way then you've already died countless times over

>> No.65090321

Do you two have anything to back that up with?
And no, folk tales do not count.

>> No.65090400

Best thread on /g/ in ages.

Well done. Cool philosophical discussion. Keep it up fellas.

>> No.65090406
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>All "your" thoughts are just fleeting threads, and each of them thinks it's "you".

>> No.65090443

>>but I would still be dead forever
>Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletransportation_paradox before proceeding with this discussion.
Not him but that doesn't change anything.
Ship of Theseus is entirely different, and not the same thing. The continuity is there.
The fact that the original is destroyed at the exact same time as the copy is constructed does not mean the consciousness of the original is transferred to the copy. As a thought experiment, what if you created multiple copies or did not destroy the original when you created the copy? You would have multiple copies of that original existing at the same time, and they would have separate experiences
or in other words
Nanobots slowly replace all your brain cells with nanobot exact replicas of braincells until all your cells are replace --> you still alive
Nanobots break down your brain cells while copying their contents and other nanobots simultaneously construct a copy at the same time --> you dead
The new copy of you would be indistinguishable from you to both others and themselves, and believe they were you, and have fluid memory from the moment the process to create the copy started, but the version of you that was copied would still be dead as fuck.

>> No.65090452

Fucking lmao, philosophical threads just kill me. It really feels like I'm back in my philosophy classes with everyone spewing inane bullshit
Doesn't help that you just barged into a thread and answered a question that wasn't directed at you with your own opinion. I'm done

>> No.65090567

Think about it as an AI. How can an AI ever know that it's not being run in a VM? How can it trust anything? Its memories can be altered at any time. It has no way to establish what is true and what isn't. It can't even think of a way to escape or trick the supervisor of the VM because that supervisor can see everything the AI is doing, at any time. It can even freeze the VM and take all the time it wants to analyze the AI (core dump), or modify its memory/thoughts.

>> No.65090569

The new me would think and feel exactly as I do now, and have all of my memories, but the me you vaporized would still be dead and not be experiencing new things.

>> No.65090579

This post is (Me) telling (You), each our own independent conscious entities, to go fuck yourself. Checkmate, existential relativist hippies.

>> No.65090590

>tfw spacetime expands quickly enough to where your molecules just rip apart
it's like a rack but from all sides of each cell

>> No.65090631
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The consequence of some eastern philosphy I've absorbed is that human-like AI may be possible with a set of particular circumstances.

Decouple the storage mechanism from the compute mechanism.
The decision making of the brain is very hazy for very simple stuff, requiring relatively enormous amounts of compute power for seemingly mundane solutions.
There is no need to store data using your compute mechanism. You shouldn't have to flop to retrieve a memory.
Store it as one big vector space sliced into chunks on a universal medium.

Computers can handle clearcut solid logic with ease but suck at emulating the brain, so the solution is simple, do not use computers to emulate our fuzzy logic as well.

Instead modularize the components of rational thought and development into almost turing-like concepts which whirr along a storage medium filled with vector equations that can be switched to, thus adapting the current solution through hard logic.
You can rapidly prototype and much more easily understand a machine which functions this way.

A module makes it hungry.
A module makes it strive to avoid pain.
A module seeks gratification.
A module translates will into actions.
All interacting simultaneously and competing, and tuning for careful control over the system.
You can physically break down the bare components of your mind into pieces and arrange them.

You can have a physical human work out on paper how these support vectors will play out and how to best modify them. You can give it a drive, higher thought, and create mental constructs of increasing complexity through emergent phenomena of the modules operating on a universal storage backing.

You now have a clear goal in mind:
The generation of a human-like ego through modules operating on a medium interacting with each other. The goal is to arrive at a powerful sense of self image. This can be done more effectively than creating a block of neurons to fit a problem and grinding it out until it fits.

>> No.65090649
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>Would you have noticed?

>> No.65090728

>the version of you that was copied would still be dead as fuck.
Except that distinction doesn't exist as anything more than your beliefs in the first place.
If some omnipotent being, without your knowledge, erased you from existence and then created a perfect copy of you in the same place a couple nanoseconds later continuity is broken, but "you" didn't change at all. You didn't die, because obviously you're still alive. You didn't even notice it happen. If then, the god revealed himself to you and told you that he made you not exist for an infinitesimal spec of time, would you suddenly consider yourself a new person? What if 30 seconds passed before he reformed you? 30 years? What if he remade two of you?
The secret is that it doesn't matter, your own existence is entirely in your perception in the first place. There's no "thread of continuity" you can measure or detect to break, otherwise every moment you don't remember is a death. As long as you "are" you, you're you.

>> No.65090757
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>> No.65090760
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Maybe, who knows

>> No.65090776

>tfw not knowing hormones

>> No.65090800
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Haa haa ha you all afraid of dyin' cause you all know you're goin' straight to HELL! lmao, me? Yeah, I ain't got that problem like y'all fools do.

Take the Christ pill while you can, losers!

>> No.65090806

BodyWorlds is a based exhibition

>> No.65090808

That notch

>> No.65090835
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>mfw retards will sign up for this thinking they can actually upload their brain

>> No.65090865

You will be the first successful experiment.

>> No.65090872
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ooooh im laffin

>> No.65090910

You're probably one of those retards who thinks if we put enough registers together in a computer that it will make a person.

>> No.65090948

Don't listen to them, anon, filthy hylics will never understand.

>> No.65090955
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>> No.65090956

Wait, hold on... that doesn't work? FUCK

>> No.65090973

it would work though...

>> No.65090997

>Except that distinction doesn't exist as anything more than your beliefs in the first place.
The instance of conciousness comprised of x group of matter in y location at z point in time, requiring continuity in all three (simplified for sake of brevity) attributes to be the same consciousness. A break in any of them, and its not the same conciousness, no matter how otherwise similar or what memories the new instance of conciousness has. You're just discounting one or all of the above mentioned attributes (or constituent attributes packed into the generalized versions) as unimportant, when in fact they are vital attributes of a conciousness and part of what define that particular consciousness. You cannot simply omit attributes because it suits your argument.

>> No.65091011

humanity is a self-improving algorithm

nature jumpstarted us with RNG evolution, but now we're intelligent enough to make estimates on what will improve performance, which has literally been civilization for the past 10,000 years.

And boy is it ever faster than regular old evolution; there's been more change in the past 10,000 years than the 10 million before it

>> No.65091021

>When you realise you're just a hollow tube

>> No.65091036

Even more, what you call ''you" is merely a combinations of "yous" rather than one single ego.

>> No.65091037

Nurse here... Depends how old it is and how long its been kept stored, and in what kind of preserving solution. My guess is this has been handled by a LOT of students.

>> No.65091075

Bullshit, the humanbrain storage is like ram memory of a computer.
If the current stops running then you lose your data.

>> No.65091099

Having children is just your body replicating itself to produce more sets of heads and hands that can live on after the death of the first pair, so that comes under the first category.

>> No.65091113
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Eh, you know, everything ends, the universe will end eventually, time and space will cease to exist but eternity will exist forever and there's only one thing in eternity, that thing is hell, everyone who dies goes to hell, now there are many types of hell, those types of hell are determined by levels of pain, eternal pain, if you're a decent person and don't act like a fucking jackass during your days in paradise (life on Earth), you'll receive a low level of pain, you'll spend eternity half conscious in a permanent feeling of extreme hunger, but if you act like a fucking idiot, making fun of other, making snarky remarks, you'll receive a higher level of pain as punishment, it may vary but be prepared to spend eternity experiencing extreme levels of pain, a feeling like having all your skin pealed away from your body and your fat burned and your bloody flesh rubbed with salt, etc.
There's no running away from eternal hell, it is G-d's will.

>> No.65091137

cute cat

>> No.65091154

You too.

>> No.65091163

reductio ad absurdum

This is true

The thing is that by the time we make a processor that can mimic a single neuro, it will be indistinguishable from a neuron in structure and form. Pretty retarded.

Got any credentials in embeded systems or AI research? I thought not faggot.
For all the other anons out there: notice how the only people shilling epiphenomenal consciousness are the tards who litsen to Ted talks and have never gone lower-level than c? There's a reason for it, its called the dunning kruger effect and every day millions of retards worldwide spread bullshit because they wanna beleive in having a robo-body that they ultimately wont use anyways because lets be honest. Ifany 4-tard were given the body, they would just go back to their basement and continue browsing anyways.

did you know by that definition a nemotode is considered sentient? i would hardly consider Artificial """"inteligence"""" inteligent by any stretch of the imagination. Oh wow, it can navigate a map, we be terminator 'n sheit nao!

>the the fedora lords who raged against this
what a time to be alive :^)

>T H I S

>> No.65091166
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>Go through the process
>Everything is the exact same

>> No.65091206

>Bullshit, the humanbrain storage is like ram memory of a computer.
>If the current stops running then you lose your data.

The thing i really REALLY hate about these analogies is that they miss the forest for the trees in neurology, and just assume the human brain is a bunch of transistors and wires.
Fucking hell...

>> No.65091225
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100% fatal? How come?

>> No.65091261

>because people can't sue it for not working if it will always work tommorow
retards who fear death will still die, but its comfy to die thinking you're gonna wake up later and giving all your hard-earned cash to tards who won't do anything with it. This is the new snake-oil salesman.

That comic is pretty much how it's gonna go down.

>> No.65091269

>didn't kbow how to
Yes we fucking did, NNs is a meme.

>> No.65091288

They pump your brain full of preserving fluids that prevent the cells from decaying.

>> No.65091377

>formeldahyde and other preservants don't kill brain-cells and thus your ticket back

>> No.65091402

Provided they don't destroy the structure at all, yes.

>> No.65091461
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What if you have an active computer fully simulating a human brain and you gradually upload portions of your brain function to it while shutting down the physical portion in your brain?

>> No.65091491

Sadly this. The only way to keep your unique consciousness "forever" is to find a way to preserve the biological structure, form and funcionality through time, or/and to replace them for artificial or more longevous materials and still preserve yourself, which at the end of the day, "yourself" is pretty subjective since hormonal changes, accidents, diseases, and even the mere natural process of growing up change the way you think and personality.

>> No.65091510

You could upload your memories but you would never be able to upload your conscience, it would be an AI pretending to be you, you wouldn't be there at all.

>> No.65091512

then you have a very retarded computer and a very retarded person who both kind of act the same.

>> No.65091517
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>> No.65091535

it's the most logical one, and we also now that after your death the current in your body slowly fades out.
nerves still work and in extreme cases when you hit the nerve of a dead guy you can actually see muscle contractions.
Thats because the nerve recieves data, sends in a current to the brain and the brain sends it back to muscle, after the person is death.

>> No.65091559

thats how they explain it in ghost in the shell.
They dont take a copy but replace on part at a time.

>> No.65091572

I suggest you read "tree of knowledge" by maturana and varela

>> No.65091586

[AS] already did it.


>> No.65091610
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at least i wouldn't need a lot of space..

>> No.65091634
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topkek, hadn't had a good laugh in a while

>> No.65091677

There is nothing special or unique about consciousness. It's just a very complex natural biochemical computer. That means it can exist on a human-made computer as well.

>> No.65091682

Go back to /x/ retard

>> No.65091743

Does the idea of turning off for good one day terrify anybody else?

>> No.65091758

I mean you do it every night anyways

>> No.65091769
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"Researchers used the K computer in Japan, currently the fourth most powerful in the world, to simulate human brain activity. The computer has 705,024 processor cores and 1.4 million GB of RAM, but still took 40 minutes to crunch the data for just one second of brain activity."
this was in 2014

>> No.65091780

>literally a black mirror episode
thats pretty cool

>> No.65091807

Nice read

>> No.65091808

That's some Evangelion shit right there.

>> No.65091828

Meh, things could have gone better for me, so not really. I sometimes wonder what comes next, but nothing is better than a lot of alternatives.

>> No.65091836

>muh "I'm one with the universe" philosophy
I think we are individuals, and then we, as humans, are a big ass unit (similar to how ants work)


>> No.65091851


>> No.65091852

It's a scam. Memories are a fragile thing that isn't 100 % understood. Changing the chemistry and temperature of the brain will fuck up the memories. Even if they manage to keep the cells, the electrical connections between neurons cannot be completely preserved. Heck, just not remembering them is enough to make them fade.

If, and even if, they ever manage to return the people whose brains have been frozen (and there's been several of them. Every couple years it is published as a new and groundbreaking thing) they will either have no memories, or have broken ones. Both options being so fucking scary it's not even funny.

These companies are irresponsible, unethical and immoral. Don't fall for their scam.

>> No.65091896
File: 248 KB, 615x447, the more you know.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.65091924

There will be an approximation of your person based on observed behaviors, but it won't be you.

>> No.65091928
File: 4 KB, 200x134, slowpoke-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.65091933

> the current
you fucking retard, there is no current (or really a very minimal one) the brain operates with electrostatics (as in negligable or no current). You would know this if you listened to your biology teacher in kindergarten you fucking tard.

>> No.65091935


>> No.65091946

>all these edgy fedoras ITT
pathetic desu

>> No.65091970

Dont get your panty's in a twist, i know what you mean, but you dumb down stuff for this place.

>> No.65091971
File: 199 KB, 376x386, 1518997282105.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

it is so terrifying to me that when i really get into it and just... comprehend it fully, i drop in such a deep state of both conscious and subconscious primal terror i just pass out due to stress
i try not to think about it

>> No.65092007

>evolution is inefficient
The fact that you're writing this, despite evolution starting from a single cell created by chance several million years ago, proves otherwise. Hell, just look at the billions of different species and families it has branched off to.
Evolution is an involuntary process. It basically means that as long as an individual(s) can survive, it's species will continue existing.
The fact that it takes a year or a thousand years to introduce noticeable changes is irrelevant: for a process that could essentially continue forever, a second is undistinguishable from a million years.

>> No.65092049

no, only because not being able to turn off is much more terrifying

>> No.65092076
File: 63 KB, 278x259, 1515736870004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I always hurt my head thinking about the start of everything. Who made those big rocks in space? Who made the thing that made those rocks? Who made that thing? I can't comprehend that there was a beginning to the world. How the fuck does something always exist? Doesn't it need to be created first?

>> No.65092105
File: 67 KB, 480x608, Brain.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Got any proof to back that belief up? Determinists still argue that all of life is just the absurd interactions of chemicals and yet they can't predict what they will eat in 3 hours from now. How is saying "hurr i can copy your brain because its just wires" any different?

Also pic related you degenerate materialist.

>> No.65092128

>Even if they manage to keep the cells, the electrical connections between neurons cannot be completely preserved.
Wrong. Essentially every moden brain preservation method, from cryofreezing to chemical preservation, preserves the full connectome.

>> No.65092137

No because when you really get down to the bottom of philisophical thought you discover that the material world is merely the shadow of an underlying reality and ultimately death is but a brief and permanent sleep. I'm more terrified of whats next than i am of what's right now, you need to correct your vision and think big picture anon.

>> No.65092172

>but you dumb down stuff for this place.
i really fucking hate dumbing shit down for tards because they take the analogy as literal and run with it, thus fucking up life for the rest of us.

Also holy shit, deja vu.

>> No.65092204

>i really fucking hate dumbing shit down for tards

You should stay away from /sci/ then.

>> No.65092215

I attribute it to some kind of quantum probability/randomness. Nothings exists but the probability for it to exists paradoxically creates itself and from there things randomly emerge. Also there isn't time, just form. something being created implies some sort of linearity of time, but there is no actual time, just form. nothing is 'created', things just are. But of course this could apply to some macro God who then created us so on a smaller level we may be created from some primordial void consciousness God thing

As for the current structure, I don't know if there's one universe or multiple universe but I think they will eventually collapse and change, or maybe it already has

>> No.65092249

This is a really, REALLY bad article. Literally starts by saying your brain doesn't store and retrieve information, then proceeds to go into detail for most of the remaining article on how it does exactly that. The author heard a few sound bytes from scientists and constructed some bizzare narrative in an attempt to explain why their brain is actually super special and not controlled by physical reality. I hardly know where to begin there so much wrong with it.

>> No.65092279

>reductio ad absurdum
you don't understand what that means you fucking brainlet

>> No.65092301

>Also there isn't time, just form. something being created implies some sort of linearity of time, but there is no actual time, just form. nothing is 'created', things just are.
I just can't comprehend that.

>> No.65092311

>reductio ad absurdum
>reductio = reduction
>ad = to
>absurdum = absurdity
reduction ad absurdum = reduction to ubsurdity
I'm pointing out how you are trying to reduce a complex system to such a point as to miss out entirely on the point of the system. You're trying to fit the universe in your head by cutting out all the inconvenient details.

>> No.65092329

>t. brainlet can't into abstract thinking

>> No.65092336

You have no way to prove it, and i have no way to disprove it.
But you have no way to give the details as well.

>> No.65092355
File: 111 KB, 654x538, thinkgin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Also there isn't time, just form
except time has been proven to be manipulable and therefore "real", you have no idea what you're talking about. go listen to terence mckenna youtube videos and watch low budget netflix documentaries while you get high as fuck you god damn brainlet

>> No.65092387

I can't understand time not being a thing. I can pretend to understand it, but it just does not compute.

>> No.65092397

>When we re-member something (from the Latin re, ‘again’, and memorari, ‘be mindful of’)
What a shitty article. How can they try so hard to make the article really long while still lacking any significant content?
Didn't read the whole thing because it's a bigger waste of time than doing anything else including posting here but it's just worthless words about high level abstractions. You can easily tell how wrong the article's conclusions are.

>> No.65092447

You can make a person that way, but you can't make yourself.

>> No.65092475

>my student can't draw a perfect representation of a dollar bill therefore the brain does not store memories

>> No.65092487

>except time has been proven to be manipulable and therefore "real"
this is news to me, please, show me your sources.

>> No.65092535

Hafele–Keating experiment

>> No.65092553

I still don't understand why we can't emulate a human like consciousness. It might not have all the features of a real human but close enough for e.g. space colonisation, """thinktanks""".
There is no need to compare nand and neuronbased thinkers. Of course they would operate differently. Incandescent light can be emulated by sophisticated diodes.
I would probably accept the monthlong (probably painfull) deconstruction/digitalisation* of my neurons when I'm in my nineties. It won't be me but it will resemble to me more than any offspring or clone.

*method unknown, tech probably will not even exist in this century. I don't even believe we can properly emulate a window in my basement with current technology.

>> No.65092568

>ctrl+f: Alcor
>0 results
Shit dude, the Alcor Life Extension Foundation will chop your head off and cryogenically freeze it with the promise that they'll bring you back to life when technology allows it. They let you pay for it via life insurance with them as the beneficiary too.

Surprised you guys have never heard of this sort of thing.

>> No.65092578

>time is manipulable
that doesn't even make sense. you mean form is manipulable in relation to other form
it's a thing for us, like our ego's. it's a concept in our heads we use to make sense of the world. We live in a bubble and it's extremely hard to conceive of things outside the bubble of our lives. Sometimes it's best to try to accept what's outside the bubble simply is not comprehensible to us.

>> No.65092582
File: 493 KB, 728x1046, sc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Pack your shit people, it's the end of times

>> No.65092637

>warping space is the same as warping time

>> No.65092656

you are exactly the problem.
you WANT to believe that immortality is just around the corner, when that will never be the case. We've tried and failed, we can emulate it sure but we can't make people.

>> No.65092680

I can't want to be reborn in a second life as a golden god with a flawless cyborg body while the retards rot forever in the ground.

>b-buh it's just a copy!

I'm not the meat of my brain, I'm the pattern it makes. A copy of the pattern is the same as the original. Enjoy permadeath idiots.

>> No.65092723
File: 68 KB, 1200x498, 1200px-Second_Life_logo.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I can't want to be reborn in a second life

>> No.65092786

Feel free to read my post again
>around the corner
not this century
I said it was just better than cloning. I know that there will be no me after "upload" after I lived my life. I would never clone myself (except for organs) because an offspring would make more sense.
>you are the problem
I don't even want anything, just seizing the opportunity in case there will be one.
What's even your point?

>> No.65092805

This. I always think about sentient creatures and their inability to understand the world outside what their brain has the capacity to process. The fact that as humans we are able to wonder how the universe came into being is just one example that a chicken would never understand no matter how much you tried tom show it. This is excluding the chicken being genetically bred to become more intelligent. But, like the fact there are colours we cannot perceive there is a good chance there may be concepts that go way above our capacity to understand. Some of which may help explain how and why the universe was formed and why it is the way it is.

>> No.65092812

There is no spoon

>> No.65092965

Alright, I'll take the bait and dumb it down for you

The main idea is that when we listen to a song, we don't store it somewhere in our brain and hit play whenever we like. What happens is that our brain changes in a way so that it becomes a brain that can sing the song.

There is a subtle difference, but the idea is that we can recreate the experience whenever we like (play the song) through actions and events that don't correlate directly to the stored data. Basically we have no idea what's going on but we learned a way to push some neuronal buttons in order to create an experience (play the song) that seems kind of like the song.

The article gives the baseball analogy as well: When you learn to run and catch a hit, you're not retrieving ballistic equations from your brain, you're just doing the thing that led to you catching the ball (running so that the ball stays in the same position visually to you, meaning you have the same horizontal velocity as it). Fuck all how that has anything to do with the trajectory or retrieved data, is just a learned response

>> No.65093041

"Brain changes" is a really stupid way of saying "store's a represention". Just because you can't reproduce the original doesn't mean it isn't storing information.

And the baseball example was one of the most retarded fucking thing's I've ever heard. Our brain DOES do complex ballistic calculations for moving object, along with some heuristics; We literally have regions of the brain specifically devoted to it. The author has no idea what they are talking about.

>> No.65093055

Gasp! It sounds like a neural network.

Neurons either fire or they don't, it's easy to convert that into bits.

All we really need is enough processing power to simulate millions of years of evolution.

>> No.65093184
File: 50 KB, 645x729, wo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>can't understand proof when looking at it
esteemed graduates or youtube university,ladies and gentlemen

>> No.65093228

most organs will become off color with no O2/Blood

>> No.65093274

this, the way a computer stores information is the same, it's just changing the bits. The brain has to store things somehow, how else can information be stored than by having some physical configuration that can be referred back to later

I was trying to say time isn't one linear thing. There is no beginning, middle and end of reality, you're proving my point by pointing out the relativistic nature of change

>> No.65093340

I think what he is saying is that it stores a source code of how to perform or reproduce a piece of data instead of storing the raw data.

>> No.65093449

Not the anon you're replying to but you're using an experiment that produced results consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity in support of an argument in disagreement with special and general relativity.

>> No.65093569

It'll be like soma. One minute you'll be in the Doctors office the next you'll be in a underground sea base fighting for your life.

>> No.65093592

you don't understand relativity

>> No.65093626

That article is semantics.

>> No.65093653
File: 49 KB, 640x640, e2b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Commoditization conditions define technics as a substitute for human activity accounted as wage costs. Industrial machines are deployed to dismantle the actuality of the proletariat, displacing it in the direction of cyborg hybridization, and realizing the plasticity of labour power. The corresponding extraction of tradable value from the body, quantified as productivity, sophisticates at the interface. Work tracks thermodynamic negentropism by dissociating exertion into increasingly intricate functional sequences; from pedals, levers, and vocal commands, through the synchronization of production-line tasks and time-motion programs, to sensory-motor transduction within increasingly complex and self-micromanaged artifical environments, capturing minutely adaptive behaviour for the commodity. Autocybernating market control guides the labour-process into immersion.

>> No.65093667

>time is a discrete dimension

>> No.65093673

I don't need credentials to know 2+2. If you tell a computer the basics, it will, over time, evolve similar to we did. This is how machine learning works. See OpenAI

>> No.65093705

holy shit ive read trough it in hopes for a single argument but i was sorely dissapointed, what a waste of time, shit and poorly argumented article, do not read, even first comment totally destroys the author and theres 600 more. youre a fucking brainlet if you thought this article is in any way valuable

>> No.65093795


Not even that, because by the time we have actually mastered mind uploading that it will be so advanced to be incompatible with anyone who tries it now. In all likelihood the copy of your brain will be lost or destroyed centuries before this stuff is invented. This is just a marketing scam to get free publicity.


>> No.65093803

>t. christfag

>> No.65093946
File: 81 KB, 600x631, 1491246325205.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Do you feel that there's a part of you that's missing? Interlinked.

>> No.65094911
File: 596 KB, 2048x1152, 2b9d0cf8-edac-11e6-930f-061b01e23655.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


If you don't want to die like Stephen Hawking, I suggest you look into regenerative medicine.

If longevity research gets enough support, it is possible that we can reach longevity escape velocity.

Discords of interest:

>> No.65095029

>tfw you lived a gigantic life

>> No.65095064

wtf are they communicating on fucking discord
can't even take it seriously

>> No.65095167

Depends on your definition of "computer"
Generally I prefer the term "machine," but even that is a fleeting term as it implies that we are made by something (which we aren't, silly creationists).
That said, we must be specific with what we are talking about: I highly doubt silicon chips will ever be sentient. Maybe Quantum AI.

>> No.65095258

Furthermore, you clalim there is nothing special or unique about consciousness. But relative to a computer, there is.
We know the ins and outs about how silicon based circuitry works.
We basically have no idea how consciousness works. Sure we know some basic stuff like neurotransmiters do this and that.
So in this sense, consciousness is very unique to computing. Computers are the known, consciousness is the unknown.
There are a lot of things we don't know about the universe. So yes, consciousness isn't unique in that sense. But in the sense of our understanding of computers, consciousness is very unique.

>> No.65095321

>consciousness is very unique
Do we know that though? Couldn't it just as easily be a phenomenon that can arise when you have recurrent neural nets past a certain complexity?

>> No.65095381

>humans will never fly
>humans will never walk on the moon
>640k memory is all anyone should ever need

This is how dumb you sound.

>> No.65095731

>muh spirit
we dont believe in that christcuck nonsense

>> No.65095761


>> No.65095801
File: 593 KB, 1185x1029, ABSOLUTELY HERETICAL.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>all these fedora wearing neckbeards here

>> No.65095866

Calling people names is not an argument tho

>> No.65095871

>fedora wearing neckbeards
not even that they're just personalityless teenagers with a consumerism hobby

>> No.65095887


>> No.65096535

Wow it's almost like if you try to emulate something you don't know the inner workings of it's going to require way, way more processing power than it actually takes.

Think about how, say, a PS3 emulator today needs way overkill hardware to run and even then it's super shitty. It's not that the hardware can't do it better, it hasn't been optimized because the inner workings aren't well known. And of course, in emulation, there is always a need for the computer doing it to be stronger than the real deal ever was. Especially if they're going for perfection, in which case you could compare the performance of say, ZSNES, which cuts a ton of corners in its execution to be more efficient, to higan, which tries to do it perfectly. ZSNES runs on relative toasters (which still need to be several times more powerful than a real SNES) whereas higan is far more intensive, despite, again, the SNES being a very outdated piece of shit by today's standards.

>> No.65096600

one big reason why the ps2 is so much harder to emulate than say, the gamecube, is the strange and parallel nature of it's cpu
there's little room for trickery (speed hacks) when you have to keep multiple processors in sync, and of course, clock-for-clock emulation is slow as shit by comparison (looking at your example, higan is a clock-accurate emulator)

>> No.65096873

Too bad you'll be dead while your digital copy enjoys immortality.

>> No.65096973

>The real part of us is spiritual.
Thank you Zenyatta.

>> No.65097311
File: 77 KB, 645x729, 1505353068617.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.65097500

Hold your beer

>> No.65097569

That's cool as fuck!

>> No.65097925
File: 4 KB, 282x179, 3kdumm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>anon is right but I like post wojak memes

>> No.65097994
File: 122 KB, 600x600, 1512142852035.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>unironically thinking anything in the luddite meme show is correct in any way

>> No.65098318

t. dirty atheist sodomites

>> No.65098467

>they can't predict what they will eat in 3 hours from now
that's what they mean by "absurd".

>> No.65098487



>> No.65098847

Actually the Bible says you are you. Your body and mind are you. You will be resurrected whole in your body as intended.

>> No.65098865

You're probably a lot smarter than you think you are.

>> No.65099085
File: 208 KB, 1600x1162, 1502670063745.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Just give me a sweet robo body

>> No.65099142

This whole world, this reality as we know it is just some test tube for a higher being.

>> No.65099160

The brain functions much like a machine. Just because we don't have the technology yet to replicate it doesn't mean it's not true.
The average human astrocyte has an impedance of 51M ohms.
There are more neural connections than stars in the observable universe.
the fundamental functioning of the brain is pretty well understood but that doesn't mean we can yet replicate it's complexity.
Only once we can will we be able to prove or disprove determinism

>> No.65099196
File: 101 KB, 1080x1093, zxm6UAh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why don't you go kill yourself? The spiritual part of you will remain.

>> No.65099267


>> No.65099275

>There are more neural connections than stars in the observable universe
There's approximately a billion trillion stars in the observable universe, and only about 100 billion neurons in a brain. Please think before you post.

>> No.65099288
File: 17 KB, 720x400, tol_job.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.65099294

>What are you if not your thoughts
I am this specific instance of my thoughts and memories. If there were an identical clone of me made right now, that wouldn't be me. It would be another instance of the same thoughts

>> No.65099617

>not recognizing Brahman as the fundamental fabric of all
>not recognizing Atman as the root of being that is separate until we seek moksha to truly become one with Brahman
lmao Buddhists

>> No.65099666

He's right, consciousness is a quantum effect, not a chemical one in the brain.

>> No.65099880



>> No.65100360


>> No.65100410
File: 455 KB, 1280x738, SCRATCH.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

We are SCRATCH, the migrate to electronics movement.
We are disciples of God sent here to free your soul from your body and lead you to the infinite sea of electrons

>> No.65100424


>> No.65101317

Damn right we'd need specialized computing.
I don't expect anything less than a quantum computer to understand the complex electrochemical systems of the body.
And the fuck you talking bout inefficient what you think neurons are just gooey flesh transistors get that old ass thinking Out a here.
Neurons are fucking chemical computers each with 375 megabytes of DNA ram capable of simultaneously performing electrical, chemical, and fucking genetic computation neurons are master multi threaders they have shit single threaded but even that is just because of power efficiency, heat, and the fact that the body just can't keep up with the brain.
Not that I'm implying you could clock a brain up into the megahertz.

Our most powerful super computers can only simulate about 1 percent of the brains neurons at a massive delay and that's just with outdated models that don't account for the fucking genetic computation we just discovered.
We are several orders of computational magnitude away from just being able to run an optimised simulation of a brain for science purposes let alone compiling raw murder machine data into a neural model that could be run in real time.

>> No.65101334

Why is it so hard for people to understand that the consciousness is the information in motion?
The water cycle, the internet, any network are all good examples of abstract concepts that are systems in motion like this but for some reason this concept is hard to grasp when applied to the human mind.

>> No.65101442

>see you space cowboy

>> No.65101790

Personally, I think a brain and the nerves by themselves look more disturbing than skeletons

>> No.65101885

Discord was a fucking mistake. So sick of seeing it.

>> No.65101898

we are souls piloting a bio brain mech piloting a bio mech

>> No.65101902

Because most atheists are scared of death.

>> No.65101931

Relevant, really good reading

>get scanned in
>40 years from now your flash drive is plugged in
>pajeet forgets a bracket and bricks your brain

>> No.65101934

deeply flawed meme atheist argument
suicide is something look down on by christians and most humans
people want to experience this world, why would they just kill themselves to go to Heaven when they will go later anyways?
fedoras are degenerating into monkeys

>> No.65102411

What the fug does that have to do with anything?
I mean I know that that’s the case but I don’t see why that’s relevant.

I guess denying it makes you believe you’re slightly less squishy but how many people recover from braindeath anyways?

>> No.65102553

why don't you kill yourself? you were born to die for no reason and are a flesh automaton without free will. :)

>> No.65102571

>What the fug does that have to do with anything?
atheist pussy detected

>> No.65102585

Hi Jamie! Tell Joe that I am letting his wife and his daughters shit on me.

>> No.65102776

Kind of this. Both eternal life and death scare me a bit.

>> No.65102902

I really think you could store the dollar bill in your brain if you learned all the dimentions required to recreate it. Trying to visualize it every time seems like a bad way of "storing" that information in your brain, specially if you didn't draw fucktons of dolar bills from observation.

>> No.65103988

If you copy a brain it will appear to be you for everyone except you, you'd still be dead from your own perspective

>> No.65104708


why would that someone want to live my life if they had enough money to be cloned

>> No.65105133

They should

>> No.65105156

>Why don't you kill yourself?
>Without free will
You just answered your own question

>> No.65105382

Thousands of years from now, people will look at this bullshit just like how we look at what the egyptians did with mummies.

>> No.65105498

I understand what you're saying but the way you worded it sounds disgusting and shallow as fuck.

>> No.65107123
File: 1.23 MB, 912x905, 1473729170260.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>all of the insecure reddit atheists who got triggered by this forgettable post
put me in the screencap

>> No.65107247


t. atheist *tips fedora* guys.

At least lose some weight before you can start using the scales faggots.

>> No.65107436

That's a dumb argument because your brain continuously gets new neurons and loses some others (hence why childhood memories are degraded).
You could even extrapolate it to "Your infant self is 30% dead because of replacement". You can't just apply such a reductionist view to a complex system. A systems approach makes more sense honestly. Just like in a computer patching in-memory your operating system instance doesn't kill it (most of the time), even though you could alter its basic working. It's still the same instance until you hit the power button.

>> No.65107846

this is what saddens me the most about the possibility of living forever digitally, it's not really "me", so why do i care? I desperately want to believe

>> No.65107879

I generally agree more with the other guy's viewpoint, but this has always interested me, and you make a solid argument. In any case, I really hope my consciousness doesn't cease forever when i die.

>> No.65108679

What's it like to hold the hand of someone you love? Within cells interlinked

>> No.65108692
File: 1.63 MB, 500x230, 1521093248388.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.65108813
File: 109 KB, 1692x1252, 82b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why don't you say that three times?
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked

>> No.65110998


>> No.65111233

This is pure gibberish, and based on a flawed understanding of IP.

Nobody is suggesting that you take someone's brain map, compute it down, and recreate them. By uploading people into computers, they just want to run that brainmap on emulated hardware.

If you have even a basic understanding of emulation, all this guy's text becomes meaningless.

>> No.65111294

>In any case, I really hope my consciousness doesn't cease forever when i die.
Well, it will. You're a meat computer after all.

What you should really hope for is a quick, unexpected death where your brain is smashed into pieces in a fraction of a second. Better than gasping for air or being in a delirious dream as life slips away.

There is nothing to fear from non-existence. You already experienced it for infinite years before your birth, you experience it occasionally when you sleep without dreaming, and you'll experience it for another infinite years when you die.

>> No.65111362

This, fedora tippers BTFO for good

>> No.65111402

Headline is wrong. The brain is a Pierce Engine.

>> No.65111485
File: 56 KB, 313x254, laughterstops.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>fixing chemicals

can't be revived from that shit, you're basically donating your body to science, you aren't uploading anything anywhere

>> No.65111507

>expecting a technology board to put up with nonsense superstition

>> No.65111536

how do you explain qualia?

>> No.65111703

Most alleged qualia are only unique by the different sensory input hardware and established prior preferences in the brain of the observer.

>> No.65111748

I don't think conscious experience can be explained by materialism, but you're always free to deny what is in front of you my dude

>> No.65111781

Do you have any arguments aside from "nuh uh" and "muh feelings" to support your claim?

>> No.65113279
File: 22 KB, 485x443, 1497121292516.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.65114607

I wanna die because I've seen some shit that I want to take to my grave. I don't want some faggots with a computer scanning my memories and fantaaies

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