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61557265 No.61557265 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

Why haven't you switched to superior BSD yet?
>tree freedom, unlike the communist FSF and GPL
>strongest security and privacy
>no systemd
>not controlled by Red Hat, i.e. the NSA
>unified OS+kernel
>Actually Unix

>> No.61557279
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61557279

>>61557265
I already use the only desktop BSD that matters, anon

>> No.61557298

Yeah and it's also barely able to run a good chunk of programs that I use daily. I'll stick to Linux on the desktop for now.

>> No.61557337

>>61557279
Do people really use clients for git?

>> No.61557339

>>61557265
You Unix fags can go to hell. There's nothing unix-y about your personal desktop.

>> No.61557355

>>61557337
It's pretty convenient.

>> No.61557428

I use FreeBSD as my desktop for many months now, OP.
Guys, don't use any of the "desktop" distros based off FreeBSD, they all suck. Just use FreeBSD

>> No.61557472

>>61557279
That finder icon, kek

>> No.61557506

>>61557279
It's a botnet for normies.

>> No.61557565

>>61557279
>bloatware and telemetry like windows 10
>good

>> No.61557622

>>61557355
How? I use git for large projects in work and I've never needed the graphical client. I bet you're using it for updating your dotfiles or some shit.

>> No.61557641

>>61557265
>FSF, GPL
I have no objection to the GPL, and would prefer it over permissive licenses, given a chance. The FSF is rather obnoxious but that doesn't stand in the way of my use of any software.

>security, privacy
In what way is it superior to Linux? In any case the biggest security and privacy threats these days come through the browser, rather than the OS.

>no systemd
Systemd has caused me no problems.

>Red Hat, NSA
If Red Hat is an NSA front they're doing a pretty poor job of it. My understanding was always that three-letter agencies would much prefer to do their nefarious things to closed-source software where there's less risk of them being discovered.

>unified OS+kernel
I'm assuming you're talking about the "base system" concept that doesn't really exist in the Linux world. But why would I care about that? It doesn't matter to me whether the distribution wrote everything themselves, or whether they're just integrators who stuck together things other people wrote, so long as the end result works. Linux works to my satisfaction, and all the places I've had problems are things that aren't in the BSD "base system" anyway.

>actually Unix
Oh, did you finally get around to paying for your gold star from the Open Group? who cares.

>> No.61557681
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61557681

>>61557565
>implying anyone is hurting for the megabytes of space that macOS' stock apps take up
>implying you're not presented with the options to turn turn telemetry on or off immediately after installing it

Stay mad

>> No.61557715

>>61557622
not that anon, but if I am not mistaken some have a really handy interface for handling conflicts, but I dont use any gui either.
A few years ago I had some java course for 3 months where we programmed a kind-of """big""" project in a group and used svn + the eclipse interface for handling conflicts. It was pretty nice desu

>> No.61557742
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61557742

>>61557265
Why haven't you switched to superior Windows yet?
>tree slavery, unlike the communist BSD and GPL
>strongest security and privacy :^)
>no systemd
>not controlled by Red Hat, i.e. the NSA
>unified OS+kernel
>Not Actually Unix

>> No.61557743

>>61557622
I use it for small personal projects.

>> No.61557753
File: 639 KB, 1910x2208, spaceglenda300.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61557753

Why have you not switched to God mode Plan 9 yet?
• Plan 9 has a fully functioning, system-wide UTF-8 support.
• Plan 9 comes with the acme IDE which is extremely customizable thanks to its philosophy of using the tools provided by the system rather than reinventing the wheel.
• Plan 9 is made in such a way that everything is a file, even than in Unix; taking a screenshot is as easy as running topng < /dev/screen > shot.png.
• Plan 9 dares forgetting some of the received wisdom by rejecting dynamic linking altogether and having its own updated C library, thus bringing true innovation in computing.
• Plan 9 is free as in freedom and controlled neither by GNUbese NEETs, Berkucks, nor Hipples.
• Plan 9 is the official Unix successor developed by Bell Labs.
• The mascot for Plan 9 is a cute evil white space bunny named Glenda and not some autistic penguin or demon.
• Glenda is also close friends with the Go Gopher who is the mascot for one of the best programming languages.
• Plan 9 comes with the rc shell which has a far cleaner syntax than Bash.
• Although Plan 9 from Bell Labs is almost dead, its Userspace counterpart and some forks of it such as 9front are actively being developed by knowledgeable members of the cat -v and suckless communities, making it an officially non-harmful operating system.

>> No.61557963

>>61557753
show me your desktop

>> No.61558036
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61558036

sh was never better than bash
mk was never better than make
keeping things consistent with UNIX philosophy under all circumstances is of academic concern at worst and of no concern whatsoever at best
noone really has reason to care about the fucking kernel itself, unless they delve deeply into the system

>> No.61558266
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61558266

>>61558036
>sh was never better than bash
Define better.
More features: no
Faster: yes, see also dash

>mk was never better than make
No opinion on this one.

>keeping things consistent with UNIX philosophy under all circumstances is of academic concern at worst and of no concern whatsoever at best
Just pile "features" on top, I'm sure there's no cost to all that bloat :^)

>noone really has reason to care about the fucking kernel itself, unless they delve deeply into the system
Yeah, I'm sure being ignorant of technology is all the rage among you new-age computer visigoths.

>> No.61558336

>>61557265
But I did, OP.
But I switched back after a week of discovering more things that didn't work every time I tried to find a way to make something work.
FUCK BSD AND FUCK YOU AND ALL THE BSD SHILLS IN THE WORLD AND FUCK THE BOAT THAT BROUGHT THEM.

>> No.61558398
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61558398

>>61558266
more practical, despite being even more $((ugly))
although to be fair, both are hideous.
And regarding faster: I never had speed issues with either, not even processing thousands of files in the MBs.

fair enough

no, cat -v is not bloat. It won't make your shitbox slower either. There's a limit to things, but in all honesty? Purism is not the answer.

It's called abstraction and interfacing. Just because you do not care about the details of low-level workings of your OS does not make you ignorant or technologically illiterate.

>> No.61558912

>>61558398
>And regarding faster: I never had speed issues with either, not even processing thousands of files in the MBs.
It's also start time that matters. That's why dash replaced bash as /bin/sh in Debian and Ubuntu - to speed up init scripts.

>no, cat -v is not bloat. It won't make your shitbox slower either. There's a limit to things, but in all honesty? Purism is not the answer.
You have to consider code complexity and resulting bugs too. For a trivial utility like cat, the GNU version sure is complex.
I'm not advocating for absolute purism, but some programs (a lot of them from GNU) are way past the line.

>It's called abstraction and interfacing. Just because you do not care about the details of low-level workings of your OS does not make you ignorant or technologically illiterate.
It does make you ignorant of the low-level behavior; that's the purpose of abstractions. Yes, you probably don't have to know how the VM subsystem works if all you do is edit documents in LibreOffice, but why limit yourself in the first place. Learning new things is fun.

>> No.61559257

>>61557753
>doesn't work with my touchpad or wireless
i'll stick with things that actually WORK, thanks anon

>> No.61559293

>>61557265
I've been using OpenBSD on my laptops for the last few years, I love it.

>> No.61559329

>>61559293
>openbsd
>no wine or linux emulator

just use dos if you want to limit yourself that badly anon

>> No.61559348

>>61559329
How is it limiting if I have no use for either?

>> No.61559378

>>61559348
Just don't use a computer if you're this obsessed with limiting yourself
>security by being unable to do literally anything
Openbsd sucks ass

>> No.61559380

>>61557265
>tree freedom, unlike the communist FSF and GPL

exactly this is why, I don't want to get associated with people with this mentality.

>> No.61559435

>>61559378
>implying I use OpenBSD for muh security
Fuck off, moron.

>> No.61559471

How is X11 in non linux like BSD or plan 9?

>> No.61559486

>>61557265
Way too insecure. You can run a fuzzer and are garantueed to crash it. Nobody is looking at the code or searching for vulns, since noone uses it anyway. OpenBSD might be a bit better in this regard, but again, noone really is looking at it, since like 4 people run it on their old VAX in mommies basement.

>> No.61559500

>>61557265
I'm sorry, I don't need a new router OS

>> No.61559520

>>61559486
>Nobody is looking at the code or searching for vulns
>OpenBSD might be a bit better in this regard, but again, noone really is looking at it
Quit talking out of your ass, OpenBSD is known for their persistent audits.

>> No.61559523

>>61557742
Nicetry windows shill

>> No.61559525

>>61557265
>>tree freedom, unlike the communist FSF and GPL

Don't be stupid. BSD supports taking away freedom from others. GPL doesn't.

BSD is trash.

>> No.61559547

>>61559329
>wine
wtf kill yourself faggot >>>/v/

>> No.61559567

>>61559547
>Wine is only for vidya
Confirmed for down syndrome

>> No.61559569

>>61559520
Noone besides the devs does it. Security by insignificance.

>> No.61559685
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61559685

>>61557265
Seriously thinking about with the recent developments around the linux kernel.

>> No.61559698

>>61559569
>no one audits it
>well the devs do but they don't count xD
Eat a dick

>> No.61559699

Stop asking me this, I already do and have for years.

>> No.61560331

>>61559257
Linux does not work with my touchpad either. Do I care? No, because touchpads are gay anyway.

>> No.61560356

>>61559698
You don't "audit" your own code.

>> No.61560407

>>61560356
Sure you do.

>> No.61560866
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61560866

>>61557265
>Why haven't you switched to superior BSD yet?
Because it's shit.
>>tree freedom, unlike the communist FSF and GPL
You can sell GPL software binaries for as much as you want. You just have to mail the customer the source or allow them to download it. This way companies can't close off the code and defeat the purpose of open source.
>>strongest security and privacy
It's security through obscurity because like 25 people know it exists, and half of them are Sony engineers.
>>no systemd
You can get GNU distros without systemd.
>>not controlled by Red Hat, i.e. the NSA
Invalid argument. We've been over this so many times on this board.
>>unified OS+kernel
You can use kernels other than Linux. There's the Hurd kernel which is about the same level of useless and hipster as every BSD, so use that.
>>Actually Unix
No it isn't.

>>61557279
Listen faggot, it's not even Posix compliant because Applel borked poll() again. So pack up your big box of fruity toys and butt plugs and get the fuck out.

>>61557742
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Windows is in fact NT/NSA, or as I've started calling it, NT+NSA. Back in the 90s it was just a shell on top of DOS and it was so shit that they made a new kernel called NT. This kernel is still shit and runs like ass. The NSA userland is made useless by I giant fucking ball of slapped together dlls and a UI made my Panjeer Ruthrapaja. Together these components create a fully OH NO SOMETHING HAPPENED :(

>> No.61560960

>>61560866
>you can use other kernels on linux

then it isn't linux

>> No.61560989

>>61560960
It was never Linux to begin with. It's GNU.

>> No.61560993

>>61557681
https://www.factoryfive.com/

You don't even into hot rods. KYS.

>> No.61561090

>>61560866
>You can get GNU distros without systemd.
*Linux distros
>You can use kernels other than Linux.
That's not what he's saying, he's saying the userland and kernel are developed for each other, unlike Linux where it's a bunch of independent programs lumped together.

>> No.61561115

>>61559567
>using confirmed botnet

>> No.61561469

>>61560989
It's Linux.

>> No.61561547

>>61561090
>independent
So portability is a sin.
Let me guess most gnu dev use linux for their daily driver but still keep it portable.

>> No.61561636

I'm using openBSD on one machine and Debian on another. I'm satisfied with both to be honest.

>> No.61561964

>>61557339
>unix-y
wew lad, you showed him good!

>> No.61562011

>>61560866
>>You can get GNU distros without systemd.
yeah and then you have to emulate systemd in order to gain software compatibility which otherwise relies on systemd, so, uh, yeah, fuck you, no

>> No.61562087

>>61557265
because bsd desktops are garbage, the rc init system is antiquated, look at openbsd not even having proper service management. look at freebsd's amazing security of introducing package signing even later than arch did.

it's all garbage, if its *bsd, linux, windows. they are all shit

>> No.61562318

>>61557265
But communism is ultimate freedom

>> No.61562547
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61562547

>>61558912
Okay, what did I miss..
Fair enough.

The second, well that's up for debate. Honestly I rarely encountered a case where GNU programs, despite their wonkiness, did not pay off for convenience in return. But I guess it's purely anecdotal and a matter of taste. I generally agree that complexity is not good for development, but in the end, most good software is ultimately not written for developers. Acknowledging that entails, to me at least, going the extra mile.

While I agree in parts, I find the distinction at which one considers one's ignorance limiting to be arbitrary. I mean, almost noone will be able to write good, well-performing assembly code nowadays. Compilers will almost always be better at such things. I mean, my profession revolves around Quantum Dynamics, hence I could easily delve into the actual physics of transistors and diodes, which is something I guarantee you almost no programmer ever will. Would I say that I know more how a computer works than others because of that, assuming I'd invest my time in that? No. And it's not like I have not written comparably low-level code already (FORTRAN mostly, I prefer it over C and the like for what I do). But in my field most relevant code one has to write should operate nigh-orthogonally to the system. And this of course also reflects on my focus and interest in the subject. Most of the OS is just means to an end. For example I enjoy (mis-)using emacs for many things that could be done otherwise for the exact reason that I don't really care about most of the operating system. I'm fine with having one unifying interface. Time is finite, after all.

>> No.61562609

>>61559293
What laptops do you have?

>> No.61562633

>Why haven't you switched to superior BSD yet?
Their video driver is broken.

>> No.61562681

>>61557265
Doesnt support my hardware

>> No.61562840

>>61557265
> Why don't you switch to an OS with inferior security, hardware support, and application support?
really makes you think

>> No.61562965

>>61557641
As someone who spends his time developing FreeBSD and using it, these are exactly the reasons why you shouldn't switch from the OS you're used to. Using something without a good reason, or it being your first thing, especially if your current thing works is stupid.

Also, *BSD is *not* UNIX. Do you idiots want us to get sued again? ;)

>> No.61562997

>>61558036
>academic concern

are you literally retarded? the point of academia is to do something new, not do the same thing over and over unless you study/work in some utter shit university.

>> No.61563265
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61563265

>>61562997
> the point of academia is to do something new
If only mate, if only. A lot of papers are regurgitated garbage or mass-produced method applications. Of course they proclaim that shit as "new" but it really, really isn't at it's core. That's a bit piece of the cake, really. In some areas doing something new can even be a hindrance to one's success because reviewers may just not be able to get what you did because it's not the same shit. Yes, that can even happen in decent journals depending on your field.
And that's just generally speaking. Regarding what I said; well.. I have read papers about why symlinks and various other convenient, sloppy things in modern OSes is bad and whatnot. But it doesn't take away that it's there and practical, but dirty as opposed to some drafts which are cleaner, but either less practical or not relevantly implemented.

>> No.61564023

>>61563265
I did not expect a meaningful reply since my reply was half-shitposting.

Yes, *lots* of academia is sloppy and bad. Many of the old ideas are still being applied, but the point is that some are being applied in a new and meaningful way, with insight of many years of research. Capabilities, to name one, is seeing lots of new research in software security by treating all pointers as capabilities in the hardware, giving you built-in pointer safety, CFI and negating the need for things like ASLR.

But in general, I agree that most of the "research" today is just reusing old ideas with no significant contribution whatsoever.

>> No.61564041
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61564041

>>61562965
why can't we be UNIX

>> No.61564196

>>61559329

>using non-free software

KYS.

>> No.61564282

>>61557265
>Why haven't you switched to superior BSD yet?
Because it doesn't exist if you factor in Linux.

>> No.61564749

>>61564282
You're slipping. It took you way too long to find this thread. What happened?

>> No.61564779

>>61564749
I wasn't bored enough to browse /g/.
legacy league is ending friday so I don't feel like playing POE much.

>> No.61564844

>tree freedom, unlike the communist FSF and GPL
GNU/FSF is capitalist, or the harmless kind of socialist that the commies didn't like. "Permissive" software is feudalist, at least when applied to relatively huge projects like full fledged operating systems.
>strongest security and privacy
OpenBSD, sure, but we already go to that when it's suitable.
>no systemd
Would be a fair point if there were no alternatives whatsoever.
Plus, Poettering will probably get bored and abandon it in favor of some new monster project in a few years. At that point it'll be possible to fix systemd, since his problem is the terrifying design choices he consciously makes; the code he writes to implement them is usually fine. He probably has mild tism.
>not controlled by Red Hat, i.e. the NSA
Red Hat controls Red Hat Linux, and the NSA doesn't need to control it because they have enough tax money to hire mad geniuses to forcibly break into anything that isn't very carefully encrypted.
>unified OS+kernel
And I want that why?
>Actually Unix
Officially, being "actual" Unix is almost meaningless, and in terms of philosophy the only "modern" OS that adheres is Inferno.

>> No.61564959

>>61564844
You can't dismiss how great systemd is and everything that its accomplished in improving Linux because you are irritated by the choices its developer has made.

It just makes you sound intolerant of change period and is a reason in itself to disregard your arguments purely from a philosophical standpoint.

>> No.61565159
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61565159

>>61564959
Ask your mother to retroactively abort you, shithead.

>> No.61565212

>>61565159
systemd isn't broken and your fixes are likely rejected opinions on how it should function.

>> No.61565469
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61565469

>>61565212
DeadShat has deposited 1 rupee in your account, pajeet. Today you can shit in their pay toilet instead of the designated shitting street in front of their headquarters.

>> No.61565736

freebsd has historically been nsa's bitch cuz juniper's junos.

>> No.61565758
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61565758

>>61557298
What you're saying is Linux, isnt that but in reality, Guhnoo plus Linux, or as I have of late taken to naming it, Gahnoo plus Linux.

Many computer holders use a subspecies of the original setup everyday, but do not realize. By a peculiar series of situations, the edition of GNU that is broadly utilized now is often called "Linux", and a substantial number of its holders are not aware that it is basically the GNU setup, created by GNU.

All the "Linux" distributions really are distributions of GNU plus Linux.

>> No.61565778
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61565778

>>61559471
Linux isn't an operating setup on its own, but actually another free portion of a fully functioning Guhnoo setup turned of service by the libs, term facilities and essential setup components completing a full operating setup.

Quite a few computer holders use a altered version of the GNU setup every single day, but do not know it. Through a unseen turn of events, the version of GNU that is being widely utilized these days is often called "Linux", and many of its holders are not aware that it is practically the GNU setup, created by the FSF.

There actually is a Linux, and this population do have it installed, but it is simply a portion of the setup which is run. Linux is commonly utilized in combination with the operating setup: the full setup is practically GNU with Linux added on, or GNU/Linux. Every single-called "Linux" developers are developers from GNU/Linux.

>> No.61565842

>>61557265

BSD needs a Linux compatibility layer to do anything useful. At that point you might as well run Linux.

>> No.61565940

>>61565212

>systemd isn't broken

>Install latest version of Kubuntu
>systemd-resolved can't resolve anything that uses DNSSEC
>how the fuck does shit like this make it past QA
>find bug report, no fix, just snarky comments from Poettering

>> No.61566009

>>61565940
>anything that uses DNSSEC
So nothing?

lol

>> No.61566422

Because drivers for Illumos are limited.

>> No.61566451

>>61557265
>>tree freedom, unlike the communist FSF and GPL
>everything i don't like is communism
Mccarthy? Is that you? I thought you died?

>> No.61566609

>>61561547
>So portability is a sin.
Not exactly, it's just that some see having a base system that's actually developed to work together as a pro.

>>61562609
Latitude XT2
12" 1.5GHz PowerBook G4
15" 1.67GHz PowerBook G4
Ideapad S10

>>61565842
Entirely depends on what programs you use. I've only used the Linux compat layer for one program and it's replaceable with native programs so OpenBSD dropping their compat layer was no big deal.

>> No.61567447

>everyone saying that BSD isn't unix

https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1205p.pdf

>> No.61567492

>>61567447
I wouldn't really count OS X as BSD, and even so, Unix and UNIX are two different things.

>> No.61567524

>>61567492
But OSX runs on the Darwin kernel, which is generaly considered to be BSD.

>> No.61567672

>>61567524
>considered to be BSD
They don't share much code. It's osx, not bsd.

>> No.61567700

>>61567524
Darwin's an OS, not a kernel. XNU is the kernel.

>> No.61567729

>>61567700
Fine, but Darwin is a major component of OSX.

>> No.61567733

>>61567729
I never said otherwise, I was just pointing out that Darwin is not a kernel.

>>
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