/fa/ - Fashion - #7110415

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Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:13:05 2013 No.7110415 [DELETED]

What are the most expensive designers ever?

Apart from bespoke tailors and all that stuff, what are the ready to wear brands which consistently make really outrageously expensive shit? Not just make one or two of those per year or something (like Rick with his 50k jackets) but always have really costly garments.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:19:34 2013 No.7110431 Mastermind Japan /thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:22:35 2013 No.7110450 >>7110431 >1100 euros for a hoodie lel CCP is also expensive i'd say

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:23:34 2013 No.7110454 >>7110450 CCP isn't near MMJ tho afaik

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:26:52 2013 No.7110476 >>7110454 nah i agree mastermind japan is more expensive why the hell is it so expensive though? i can get CCP being it.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:27:53 2013 No.7110483

>>7110476
MMJ
>produces every one of their mainline items only three times which means that every garment they make is limited to three pieces
>uses very high quality materials on par with big houses like Hermes
>is very hyped in Japan much like Visvim which allows them to dramatically increase prices

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:29:22 2013 No.7110494 Where is there a big selection of mainline MMJ items? I can only find a few pieces on farfetch. Also OP, Exemplaire is a new french cashmere brand and is pretty damn expensive None of their knits under 1k iirc

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:34:23 2013 No.7110505 Balmain Lanvin Visvim Saint Laurent Paris Hermès Loro Piana Valentino Brunello Cuccinelli Kiton Bijan Zilli Billionaire Couture

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:45:52 2013 No.7110555 >>7110505 >Zilli >Billionaire couture Those two look like scams. Their websites are shitty and their items are cut like shit and look bland as fuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:50:22 2013 No.7110577 File: 46 KB, 455x475, 385190_mrp_in_l.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The Elder Statesmen How can they charge £1,500 for a jumper that is so disgustingly horrible to look at.

>>	cosmicbutts !!qblBZSgYzBX Mon Oct 21 15:50:23 2013 No.7110579 sruli recht, mmj, balmain

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:52:23 2013 No.7110586 >>7110577 >implying TES isn't incredibly comfortable and cosy >implying you're their target customer

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:54:22 2013 No.7110594 >>7110579 balmain isn't that expensive it's givenchy or slp tier

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:55:23 2013 No.7110602 stuff from alexander mc queen before he died.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:57:22 2013 No.7110612 What's the single most expensive piece of clothing /fa/ has seen? For me it's probably that alligator skin jacket on ssense by dick for like $53,000. Looks shit too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:57:52 2013 No.7110614 >>7110602 >before he died Why? What were the prices? I like McQueen but it seems to have decent prices, nothing over the top

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:58:22 2013 No.7110626

>>7110586
I can get a cashmere jumper of similar quality for about 10% of the price. Who still wears tie-die never mind tie-died knitwear.

Who are their target customer exactly? Hippies and surfers who can afford to drop £1,500 on cashmere sweats, i.e. nobody.

>>	cosmicbutts !!qblBZSgYzBX Mon Oct 21 15:59:22 2013 No.7110627 >>7110612 you saw it in-person? most i've seen irl were visvim fbts

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:59:23 2013 No.7110630 >>7110612 >has seen >references something he saw on the internet that's stupid it should be: what's the most expensive item you've handled irl

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 15:59:52 2013 No.7110632 >>7110630 I handled some stuff in Bijan's store What do I win

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:00:22 2013 No.7110642 File: 39 KB, 425x360, tie-dye.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7110626 >tie-die that's not tie-dye you retard >>7110632 >bijan you mean Boris Bidjan Saberi? Or is Bijan someone i don't know what did you handle? that sounds cool.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:00:52 2013 No.7110636 File: 25 KB, 540x472, hermes_black_crocodile_skin_tshirt_dfiuj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7110612 The Hermes $100,000 crocodile t-shirt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:00:52 2013 No.7110637 >>7110612 Burberry has a 100k alligator trench right now, was going to cop but sold out.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:01:23 2013 No.7110648

>>7110626
>similar quality
haha, nope. Similar quality would be Loro Piana, Cuccinelli, Kiton, Exemplaire... And all of those are just as expensive.

It's not because you find it ugly that it's bad quality bro.
>Hippies and surfers who can afford
It's what the guy calls "west coast style" so I guess it's just targeted to guys who want extremely high quality which matches a relaxed outfit

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:02:23 2013 No.7110649 >>7110637 i tried it on in store sales dude was like sweating cause he thought i was gonna buy it and he was gonna get mad commission

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:02:52 2013 No.7110655 >>7110612 ralph lauren purple label alligator bag was like 250k euros

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:02:52 2013 No.7110657 >Not spending 1.3 mil on a pair of jeans http://www.bornrich.com/now-diamonds-adorn-the-backsides-of-the-ultra-rich.html

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:03:53 2013 No.7110664 >>7110630 Yeah, but I want to know about insanely expensive stuff, chances are the most expensive stuff you'll see on the street will be topping off at like $3,000 to $5,000.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:04:22 2013 No.7110665

>>7110642
No Bijan is a deceased Iranian guy who made extremely expensive MTM for celebrities

I handled some of his alligator jackets, some suits and accessories in his store in Beverly Hills - I was with my father, which bought a jacket but I couldn't afford anything. You could only get into the store by appointment.

The quality was good but not astounding for the price. My father paid around 10k for the jacket.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:05:53 2013 No.7110673 >>7110637 An alligator trench coat would look so fucking autistic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:06:52 2013 No.7110681 >>7110657 >paying 1.3 million for shitty bedazzled jeans by pleb tier designers

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:08:22 2013 No.7110688

>>7110648
Cashmere is fucking cashmere, I go to some local little knitwear shop in the highlands of Scotland where they source the wool and hand knit it for less than £200.

I hope you drop your blunt and burn in a hole in your 2k cashmere sweater you goddamn trust fund hippy bum

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:09:52 2013 No.7110697 >>7110657 Those jeans are so shit what a waste.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:09:52 2013 No.7110699 >>7110664 >go into burberry >see $12000 trenches everywhere nah nigga you can see expensive shit in any of the big stores in places like nyc and chicago

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:13:23 2013 No.7110720

>>7110688
You seem very mad

Can't afford something? No reason to shit on it. Cashmere isn't "fucking cashmere", as with everything quality varies a lot. I'm not saying the knitwear shop you go to makes shitty stuff, but you're obviously going to get absolute top of the line shit when buying from Loro Piana or TES.

I could buy cashmere from Eric Bompard or another reasonably priced yet good quality knitwear brand, yet I choose to save up and get knits from top notch houses. It's about priorities.

Someone who can afford Loro Piana isn't going to step down just because it's "overpriced". It might be, but even then he's sure to get the highest quality possible.

No h8 m8 though, I understand you and agree to an extent

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:14:23 2013 No.7110730 >>7110614 Not what were the prices, what are the prices now. For the items pre death I mean. they are easily 10000+, especially dresses.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:14:23 2013 No.7110732 >>7110614 he was extremely overpriced before his death now it's all decently priced + they have a diffusion line too

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:15:57 2013 No.7110744

>>7110730
oh you mean the prices inflated after he died?
couldn't care less about dresses, I'm interested by menswear
>>7110732
what's the diffusion line? McQ? It's just as expensive as the mainline though

How overpriced was he before his death, just curious

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:16:56 2013 No.7110754

>>7110720
How can you tell the quality of cashmere and knitwear in general. I was trying on a few different sweaters in my department store and honestly couldn't see much difference. Infact some of wool ones were itchy as fuck and they were like £500-600.

Also I'd be totally paranoid about getting a pull and probably kill myself. What would you do if you pulled your 2k cardigan?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:18:27 2013 No.7110760 >>7110744 >It's just as expensive as the mainline though no it's not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:18:57 2013 No.7110764 >>7110754 >What would you do if you pulled your 2k cardigan? get over it cause i have more, just like any other clothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:18:57 2013 No.7110767 File: 49 KB, 450x675, _YVS0420.450x675.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Apparently this hedi jacket costs 62 000$. Probably not for sale though. The embroidery is actual gold thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:18:57 2013 No.7110768 >>7110754 Go to your local whatever store and try their cashmere stuff. It'll be itchy as shit and get pulls everywhere. Then go to a local Loro Piana store and try on their average knits. You'll see for yourself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:19:27 2013 No.7110773 >>7110754 you think just cause it's expensive it loses it natural quality of being itchy?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:19:57 2013 No.7110776 >>7110760 [citation needed]

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:20:56 2013 No.7110780 >>7110776 just go check any online stockist retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:21:56 2013 No.7110782 >>7110764 How rich are you not to care about getting pulls in your 2k cardigans?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:22:56 2013 No.7110789 >>7110782 how stupid are you not to realize that shit happens

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:23:56 2013 No.7110796 >>7110673 He said the dude was arab. They aren't known for being a tasteful people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:23:56 2013 No.7110798 >>7110782 2k cardigans don't get pulls as easily as 200 ones.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:24:56 2013 No.7110805 >>7110798 >this is what poor fags actually believe

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:24:56 2013 No.7110806 >>7110782 i don't make enough to not care, i was just saying that in general, the people who own $2000 cardigans are going to have more if you're hyperwealthy than spendin $10k on cardigans isn't a big deal

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:25:57 2013 No.7110814 >>7110805 Lol I own an etro cashmere cardigan and despite beating it up it looks great can't say the same of my brooks brother shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:28:57 2013 No.7110827 >>7110814 it doesnt give it some magical properties that prevent pulls though, if your sweater gets caught on something, it's gonna pull. $2000 or $40, doesn't matter.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:30:27 2013 No.7110844

Do more expensive fabrics actually last longer? I've had £50-60 t-shirts that wash like shit and the £10 wash perfectly well.

I almost feel that the more expensive the garment, the harder it is to look after. You have to hand wash it or dry clean it, and the fabric is often finer, more delicate and more proper to pulls, tears going out of shape etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:34:26 2013 No.7110866 File: 87 KB, 1200x1200, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] aitor throup only has one collection so far but almost everything is 2000+ pounds this shirt is 1950

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:44:43 2013 No.7110930

>>7110844
it depends on what article of clothing and the price range.
Like a pair of 'leather' boots for 50 dollars aren't going to last anywhere near as long as pair of leather boots for 200, assuming a decent producer. But then you go to 1k range where they're playing around with pony hide n shit and it's a whole nother ball game
basic shirts and tees quality is generally about how 'soft' it is. timespan isn't a big factor in the price ranges
$50 jeans will last you a very small amount of time compared to raws

etc etc
but yeh with better/abnormal materials shit tends to come with proper care procedures
a simple example in another field i suppose would be knives, where a high quality steel requires that you sharpen relatively often, never put it in the dishwasher, use a wooden cutting board and dont go near bone (unless you got a butcher blade). A low quality blade can be used on stone no one gives a shit it's already crap theres nowhere its goin to go lower but broke

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:50:13 2013 No.7110976

>>7110930
I think it's more the fact that because you've saved up your hard-earned money on something expensive you feel like you have to treat it with care.

I don't give a fuck when I'm wearing £10 tees, but when I'm eating dinner wearing a £200 knit I get my napkin on and eat with extreme precaution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:50:14 2013 No.7110983 >>7110866 >hey nice shirt is it yesstyle?

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 16:53:43 2013 No.7110993

>>7110976
>I think it's more the fact that because you've saved up your hard-earned money on something expensive you feel like you have to treat it with care
well yeah
they go hand in hand
its not like the low quality knife has no proper care procedures
just no one follows them because who gives a shit it's a crappy knife anyways
you'll actually give a shit if a high quality blade gets worse, the drop is noticeable because you go from great to shit
but shit to shit aint too big a change

sieg heil !szTe0VDR1w Mon Oct 21 16:59:43 2013 No.7111037
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>>7110614
sarah burton lowered the price/made everything more massmarket which is why every soccer mom knows of him.

>>7110782
not rich at all, I don't even have a job

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:13:13 2013 No.7111151 >>7111037 Only 70% cashmere. What the fuck is seta?

>>	sieg heil !szTe0VDR1w Mon Oct 21 17:18:13 2013 No.7111200 >>7111151 it's italian for silk softer hand than the 100% cashmere it's meant to be as a layering piece between a loro piana shirt, and under a leather jacket at least that's what they told me at the forum shop in las vegas

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:21:13 2013 No.7111233 >>7111037 what's your opinion on the other emerging luxury cashmere brands like elder statesman and exemplare

sieg heil !szTe0VDR1w Mon Oct 21 17:24:13 2013 No.7111265

>>7111233
I've only handled elder statesmen
I liked the styling of some of the more subdued pieces

but when I was looking at it most of the shit was real flashy

and being a 5'6" loser, Asian socially awkward loner

wearing flashy shit is generally a bad idea
as it draws unwanted attention

exemplare, I haven't looked at or heard of

thenagain I haven't copped clothes for a long time now, at least 11 months

last thing I got was a denim shirt, but it was just at H&M, because my brother said to wear it while visiting the parents

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:26:43 2013 No.7111274 >>7111265 I see. was the elder statesmen pieces the same quality as your loro piana stuff? how tall would you have to be to pull that off then? I'm 6'0''... Sorry it's Exemplaire, not Exemplare. french label I think

>>	Mango !!qT11xYTVwQG Mon Oct 21 17:31:44 2013 No.7111317 >>7110577 lol i actually almost bought this

sieg heil !szTe0VDR1w Mon Oct 21 17:32:44 2013 No.7111330

>>7111274
hmmm, probably about the same

ES kind of felt more like a fashion brand though quality wise

LP felt more like a heritage brand quality wise

if that makes any sense

kind of like holding a barbour jacket, and like a parka from Robert geller or something.

5'10/6'0 I think you'd have to have a presence IRL to pull it off

like being one of those slanky 5'10" in the corner of a party doesn't work

but if you're there copping bitches numbers and shit and being the reason people want to go wherever the fuck you are,
it'll work on ya

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:37:13 2013 No.7111353

>>7111317
why didn't you buy it, it looks neat as fuck
their other products look good too, like a relaxed alternative to LP

>>7111330
hmm... do you mean that ES put more emphasis on the design than LP and was overall more innovative while LP was more conservative?

>you'd have to have a presence IRL
I'm not some kind of beta sperg, I'm socially comfortable and normal.
It should work

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:38:44 2013 No.7111359

>>7110930
everyone's got anecdotes but when I was 14 my mom bought me a pair of black boys skinnies at Walmart form the Levis diffusion
I still wear these shits ( on right now), they stack perfect and haven't fallen apart, have faded super nicely and have brass colored hardware that hasn't lost it's sheen. I've gone through like fours pairs of naked and famous and acne in the process, I'm 22 now and I still have them (and like them better than my nf black power stretch)

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:49:14 2013 No.7111429

>>7110648
>implying those prices are only reflective of quality
there's all kinds of things companies base their prices on. When you're talking about a 1500 dollar knit, you'd have to be a nignog to think that it's "worth" that about in fabric, construction, and labor costs.

>>	TroalPoϟt !!M/8ntLE+we3 Mon Oct 21 17:49:43 2013 No.7111426 >>7111359 u stopped growing at 14? tbh as long as quality is good, i dont mind paying closer to full price for the design alone

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 17:55:43 2013 No.7111463 >>7111317 mango how do you have so much money considering you are in uni? are you spoiled or something?

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:03:14 2013 No.7111518

>>7111426
yeah man I shot up to 6'1" and haven't gained weight since (actually lost a little... went from 32 to 30 waist but the jeans were 30 with spandex). It's actually pretty amazing though, even other jeans from the same line haven't been this nice. I feel like I got lucky and the universe matched me up with the perfect pair of jeans

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:04:13 2013 No.7111523 Supreme

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:05:13 2013 No.7111525

>>7111429
tbh, I've actually had a lot of buyer's remorse in the past few months. I've moved onto copping a lot of mid-teir basics (basically Our Legacy, Acne, and Norse from Barney's) and after a few months, the value is just not showing through. After a few washes (and I treat all of my clothes as if they were delicate, cold hang dry everything) the threads come loose, the materials become hard and there's very little perceivable difference between them and any basics I've copped from Uniqlo and J Crew and Brooks (fuck, the extra slim from Brooks kicks ass). I realize I sound like I'm straight from leddit, but I study design and from there fashion to an extent, so I know my way around clothing construction and a sewing machine.

I think there's an element to feeling good about the prices you pay, knowing you're wearing a $200 oxford. However, I'm from a frugal background but work my ass off at school and work which is why I can justify spending a bit more on nice pieces. I just don't get the satisfaction of paying for the brand.

I wish instead of copping all of these shitty basics I lurked sufu and yahoo.jp and bought some well designed shit. Fuck even just the more statement pieces from Acne and Norse. My favorite shirts are the marbled and broken leaf patterns, while the basics mean no more to me than the Uniqlo shit in my closet.

For the same prices I paid for some of my shirt I could be in Undercover and Julius, and I really wish I had went that route. You'd be kidding yourself if you think that construction truly scales as fast as price, but at least these clothes offer me interesting designs rather than advertising the fact that I got irrationally trigger happy with my debit card at a department store.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:08:44 2013 No.7111539

>>7111525
Which brands have a price that actually reflects quality then?

Which designers (this is coming from a guy who essentially owns H&M and Uniqlo shit) can I buy from which will give me my money's worth in quality and DURABILITY?

Been searching for that for ages

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:20:13 2013 No.7111586

>>7111539
Well, the brands I mentioned do have some pieces that are pretty okay. Just very little worth the MSRP. The most important part is the tailoring; you can find similar quality at other places with worse fits. Just find a good tailor and know your measurements.

If you can manage to find Norse Crewneck sweatshirts, like the look wheeled ones on sale, they are worth about the $80ish.

Brooks Brothers makes better oxfords than anyone I mentioned. The extra slims and a tailor job work for the tall and lanky. The construction and materials kick any of their asses. I normally avoid this brand like the plague, but writing off a basic item based on the brand alone is stupid.

For 100% cotton thin knits, mall brands are not the absolute worst. The construction is a lot better on the aforementioned brands, but the material feels and behaves exactly the same way. Cop if you can find a non overdesigned one there.

Naked and Famous denim is the same quality in construction as Acne and APC (better than Acne in materials sourced too) and significantly cheaper. The fits, however, are a bit worse, but a skinny guy with a taper at a tailor or a super skinny is a better value. Not to mention the unique materials are generally worth copping. I bought the 10oz light selvedge and it's amazing as well as the super skinny black power stretch (kicks Acne's ass). A shame that the Weird Guy fit sucks because some of the stuff like red core looks ace.

Common Projects are pretty good to cop in the $200-300 new range. Every now the Achilles pop up new for around $220 which is okay. I do recommend looking at other designs though and seeing if you can find them cheaper; CP boots and derbies are actually super solid.

APC makes shoes on par with CP (I'm 95% the factories are the same based on some of the tagging on the insides) and go on much more significant sale and are dirt cheap second hand. They use nice leathers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:22:14 2013 No.7111594 >>7111586 bless you sir

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:28:35 2013 No.7111621

>>7111586
part 2

Undercover makes very overpriced items from a construction standpoint, but learn to look around on yahoo.co.jp and rakuten (the japanese site, not the global market). Nothing quite beats the designs.

Voidthebrand shirts are pretty low quality. The materials are nice (very nice for the price point actually, they incorporate rayon and bamboo but it's the stitching that sucks. Cop cheap if you know you're gonna have to get it repaired. The j shirts like to rip along the seams which makes the asymmetrical angle even sharper

Rick, Julius, and Silent by DD have very small differences in construction quality and may as well source the same materials. Used they float around the same prices but at MSRP I'd rather not cop Rick compared to the other two (I'm waiting for a RO "expert" to try and argue")

Geller is not worth the MSRP.

T by Wang is horribly overpriced and the fits are nothing special. Just don't cop it, please. I bought too many before I realized it.

Fideli makes nice quality tshirts (esp the long sleeves) that go very cheap on yoox

Ann D and KVA both somehow managed to create both interesting designs and very high quality. Few shoes can match my Ann D boots in either suede, dye, or stitching quality.

Generally work wear and japan heritage are very high quality construction and materials. These are nerds that pride themselves on it. Avoid new brands cashing in on the trend.

Avoid Visvim like the plague.

Only buy Guidi leathers if you like their design, they are not durable shoes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:29:05 2013 No.7111628 >>7111621 great posts man. why avoid visvim?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:30:36 2013 No.7111632 >>7111621 right now i just look on the global rakuten market. should i start uisng the non global, the yahoo jp and yoox? are there certain brands to look for on each site?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:32:52 2013 No.7111651 >>7111586 >>7111621 inb4 900 fags yell @ ur post i can see it coming from miles away godspeed nigga ignore turnleft especially

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:37:52 2013 No.7111668 >>7111621 why is t by wang bad? is it bad on sale? people recommend t wang shirts a lot here

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:38:51 2013 No.7111671

>>7111594
part 3
Most boot companies carry their prices for a reasom. Viberg, Oakstreet, etc. all have high quality in both construct and materials. Just try them on, they really only work for some people

Uniqlos collabs are all worth well more than their MSRPs. J+ is amazing if you can find it.

If you like how doc martenss look they will last you forever.

Grenson is pretty meh, never pay full price.

Alpha Industries is horrible.

Carhartt WIP is the opposite of Alpha Industries. Well worth the price, this is pretty great techwear/fashion fusion.

Cheap Monday fucking sucks in every way. Just don't.

COS has nice things but avoid their leathers, it's all genuine (look up the types of leathers, will help you on your quest) and their knits suck when made from wool. Outerwear is the nicest thing they sell.

Opening Ceremony makes low quality shoes for men, but the design is interesting if you like bold and and colorful shoes.

Never cop mainline Vans, Vault is superior in every way. The vault is closer to CP than it is to the Canvas plimsoles.

Comme Des Garcons and all it's diffusion lines are shit quality for the price and they use laughably bad materials. Faux Fur and fake leather "for design reasons."Hanes quality tshirts with screen prints and embroidered hearts

There go all the brands I've dealth with or handled in class
Consumer Fashion Psych to the rescue
It's quite interesting, Visvim and CDG are actually great cases to study from a marketing perspective

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:40:22 2013 No.7111680

>>7111651
>ignore

yeah because once we find someone with experience and an opinion we better champion him like the one true fucking heir

as someone who dropped a lot of cash on boring "quality" stuff I want to hear from others who have handled a lot of clothes

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:42:51 2013 No.7111696 [DELETED]

File: 87 KB, 533x800, Navy-lambskin-perfecto.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Tom Ford
Stephano Ricci
Zilli
Kiton
Hermes
Isaia
Dunhill
Cesare Attolini
Lanvin
Bottega Veneta
Ascot Chang
Loro Piana
Gieves & Hawkes
Belvest
Fratelli Rossetti
Fray
D'Avenza
Gallo
Herno
Rota
Barba
Alfredo Beretta
Fedeli
Santandrea
Domenico Vacca
Corneliani
Angelo Galasso
Givenchy
Christian Dior
Brioni

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:43:22 2013 No.7111700

>>7111628
Visvim mades is rounds in Japan in a very interesting way. Something inbetween high fashion word of mouth and streetwear plaster stickers everywhere kind of shit. It's a really weird pop cultural ascension.

Everything about the brand is horrible, quality and construction. But people pay.

Yuketan is riding their coattails but offer better items overall imho

>>7111668
the materials sources are the same used by Norse with significantly higher mark ups. I guess at $40 it'd be okay if you'd pay full Norse MSRP on their ts.

>>7111651
you know, considering how all those trips actually look in real life I don't care if 16 year old who graduated from Hypebeast forums selling Vans colorways has a problem with the shit I study for a living. They're literally all jokes to me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:44:22 2013 No.7111708 >>7111037 LP is superb tier BC can eat shit as far as I'm concerned, their marketing drives me up a wall

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:46:21 2013 No.7111715 >>7111671 wow you must be some kind of fashion genius to entirely dismiss comme des garcons based on play it's actually hilarious that you're trying to act like you know anything

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:46:52 2013 No.7111716 >>7110798 Unless it's made of bamboo never, never again

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:47:21 2013 No.7111717

>>7111700

can you explain what you do in class more specifically?

because you made some pretty big objective claims (visvim quality and construction is horrible) which a lot of people would disagree with, so I want to know what your process was. like, how many pieces did you handle, do you get to disassemble them, etc.

and basically why are you more right than the hundreds of others on sufu or whatever, besides they're biased because they spent $700 on shoes.

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:49:52 2013 No.7111728

>>7111700
>you know, considering how all those trips actually look in real life... They're literally all jokes to me.

not only is this way derogatory and pointlessly insulting, but nobody even knows what you look like in real life so they're still ahead of you as far as I'm concerned. even sieg.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 18:51:21 2013 No.7111734 File: 204 KB, 557x800, Black_crocodile_jacket.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7110767 Poorfag pls

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:00:52 2013 No.7111779 >>7111525 i get what you mean, i wouldn't pay retail for these mid tier scandinavian brands, as much as i like them actually having said that, i'd prolly cop more our legacy sweatshirts at full price if i found a nice one

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:03:22 2013 No.7111793 >>7111779 i own a our legacy knit and it's pretty awful stretches weird, is made of a dumb blend, smells stick to it like fucking glue can't stand it

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:04:51 2013 No.7111807

>>7111539
if you're eu then try cos (think i read somewhere it's opening in america soon too)

it's the same parent company as h&m but the quality is much better in my experience (it's more expensive than h&m, but what isn't?). Silk blend tees for under £20? Some stuff feels like it might suck a bit, not sure their cotton tees are worth it compared to uniqlo but hey whatever, they're still not expensive

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:05:51 2013 No.7111815 >>7111671 i have a cos leather sleeved coat and the leather is buttery soft

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:07:22 2013 No.7111827 >>7111793 sweatshirt not knit bruh bruh

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:08:21 2013 No.7111837

>>7111715
I think you should reread the sentence again
PLAY never used faux fur. Thanks for trying Also, I actually did mistype. I don't know anything about mainline or Plus and it's branches. I meant to say most diffusion lines.

>>7111717
I'm currently in a general design program that has me doing primarily fundamental architecture/visual studies studios and integrated product design. However, my electives are all fashion and fabric design studios. The most important source of all of this information is the consumer psychology track I'm in, which allows me to take classes specifically on purchasing habits. This year my fashion consumer pscyh includes a young professor who may as well be on sufu, who brings in pieces (not to mention the pieces I've handled for history/studio...).

I'm not going to post a fit since my classmates all browse /fa/ and would instantly recognize me. I understand this may as well invalidate everything I've said BUT:

Remember that we're dealing with fashion, which for many people holds perceived value based on money for a variety of reasons; confidence, class (either high OR low), location, habits.
I examine clothes from a slightly more objective standpoint (notice I say slightly) based on material cost and construction quality. If you can remove the goggles created by your pride, wallet, and ego, maybe you'll notice some of the things I'm saying on your own clothes. Or maybe you'll type some lel fuk u post under a trip, I don't really give a fuck. Take whatever you want from my posts.

tl;dr guy Mon Oct 21 19:12:51 2013 No.7111854

>>7111815
I also have a varsity leather sleeves from them.. Even though I know this leather is the best quality it is nice and the overall garmet is quite nice. HOWEVER that doesn't change the fact that they are genuine leather sleeves. Same goes for their current leather sleeved knit or their horrid, horrid shoes

>>7111728
we're on 4chan, I realize that's a very general thing to say (I also don't think absolutely all of the trips are horrible) but I've seen enough of them and the comments they make on others to know they're very insecure teenagers playing pretend behind internet personas

cept tomato, he's a bro

>>	tl;dr guy Mon Oct 21 19:13:52 2013 No.7111859 >>7111854 obviously when I refer to them as they I'm talking the standard pantheon of /fa/ trips

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:15:21 2013 No.7111867 >>7111680 naw i don't mean erryone turnleft is just a massive bitch m8

>>	banana Mon Oct 21 19:17:21 2013 No.7111884 File: 90 KB, 750x956, 1375685839884.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7111854 i'll fukin kill u mo fugga #fruitfury tomato is undoubtedly bromato obv doe B))))))))

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:18:51 2013 No.7111894 >>7111837 >I think you should reread the sentence again >Thanks for trying why would you insult me directly before admitting that you were wrong and you don't need to tell me that you don't know anything about cdg its already obvious

>>	tomato Mon Oct 21 19:23:25 2013 No.7111930 File: 145 KB, 1500x1383, penor feel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7111854 >>7111884

>>	banana Mon Oct 21 19:33:42 2013 No.7112004 File: 18 KB, 300x250, rainbow bukkake 0RgY.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7111930 {B^)

Anonymous Mon Oct 21 19:44:10 2013 No.7112061

Anon dropping the knowledge bombs, if you're still here:

Do you have any experiences and opinions on big houses such as Dior Homme, SLP, Prada, Givenchy?

At a mid to high tier price range, you're basically saying that all clothing brands are overpriced/meh quality, are there no designers which one could consistently rely on for providing well made, resistant garments?

Especially when it comes to basics. Tees, trousers/chinos, knits, jumpers.

>>	tl;dr guy Mon Oct 21 20:39:12 2013 No.7112254 >>7111884 >>7111930 sorry nana I'm a tomato kinda guy

tl;dr guy Mon Oct 21 20:53:16 2013 No.7112314

>>7111894
to my knowledge play doesn't use fake leather or fur. so you know what you're talking about?

>>7112061
I don't have experience with a lot of super high end. I think since I'm at design school with not the biggest fashion program, a lot of the profs here aren't upper class so don't gravitate towards the big houses. I know the sufu prof I have scoffs at shit like Hermes, and the only time Givenchy was ever brought up was the graphic tshirts in the marketing class.

I never could afford that shit and I don't really pay attention to it. I'm not an ostentatious person so have no interest in the super flashy (although I'm sure there's good design there that will forever be out of my reach. man I want creepers)

I realize my posts were generally negative. I think the problem is for the mid tier brands like norse and acne they swing and they miss since they take a homogenous approach and try and offer the whole wardrobe. Because of that they have their strengths and they have their weaknesses. I think being selective about what you buy is a much more effective approach than buying because of a brand loyalty

If I was to name the brands I would actually buy and think they were worth the value:
1. Ann D
3. Viberg
4. Undercover used
5. Silent by DD
6. Attachment

For basics, from my experience you need to go to more than one place and gather a collection.

Basic (strictly basic) Ts: Fideli, COS (some of their tees are great, some are horrible, they have very inconsistent fits and blends even on the same model, let alone across the catalogue), Uniqlo, Everlane (if you're short)

Trousers/chinos: Unbranded or Naked and Famous, with a tailoring job, Epaulet, APC and Acne used. I actually don't think mall brand chinos are worth it (don't buy fucking J Crew chinos)

tbh I don't wear too many super basic knits and jumpers, I'm content with norse, cos, jcrew, and some uniqlo tho.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 21 20:57:15 2013 No.7112326 >>7111696 >specifically told to avoid bespoke brands >mentions Gieves & Hawkes, Ascot Chang nigga, what are you doing?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 04:27:18 2013 No.7114310 >>7112326 lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 05:31:07 2013 No.7114454 in person the most expensive thing i've handled were some rick leathers they were only in the $2000-3500 range god they were so lovely tho that velvety soft leather

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 11:04:13 2013 No.7115368 >>7110681 >being THIS poor

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 16:48:20 2013 No.7116867 >>7111671 What about Comme des Garcons wallets? I hear good things about them? Also how to Loake compare to Grenson for brogues?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 19:00:14 2013 No.7117630 bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 22 20:23:36 2013 No.7118015 dw kanye west

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 04:21:44 2013 No.7119987 >>7116867 wallets and perfumes are the only good cdg products

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 04:28:14 2013 No.7120008 >>7119987 But Timberlake rocked their tee, he can't be wrong right?

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 04:49:17 2013 No.7120049

Of the current high-end men's labels, it's probably CCP.

Speaking of which, I don't understand why CCP is so much more expensive than everything else. I understand that the materials are sourced from very specific areas and all of that, but the prices still seem outrageous.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 04:50:15 2013 No.7120053 >>7119987 I agree. I went to their flagship in Tokyo a couple of months ago, had a look around, did a 360 and moonwalked out. There was nothing in there that looked even remotely interesting.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 04:56:46 2013 No.7120066 [DELETED]

File: 17 KB, 240x320, tumblr_l7cvcsBAWP1qa57w7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7110594
even most of balmain's rtw is on a whole other level from SLP and Givenchy, they're one of the few european houses that still does a significant amount of stuff in-house (the most notable other being carol)
balmain is expensive
slp is overpriced
>>7110612
i tried on a ridiculously expensive SLP jacket, like a retail of 50k
didn't like it that much
>>7119987
never say anything about comme des garçons again. ever.
>>7120049
stuff is done in house, ridiculous amount of time and effort gone into different manufacturing methods - it's very well made stuff and the processes are pretty laborious
>>7120053
what the fuck is wrong with you, even the store itself is a great design space. did you not look at any of the womenswear? any of the ganryu or junya pieces? any of the various collaborations i'm sure they had the store?

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 04:57:46 2013 No.7120070

>>7111621

>I'd rather not cop Rick compared to the other two (I'm waiting for a RO "expert" to try and argue")

I absolutely concur with this. Even from a purely aesthetic point of view, RO would be last on my list at that price range.

>Ann D and KVA both somehow managed to create both interesting designs and very high quality.

I've had mixed experiences with Ann D. I had a number of pieces from last year that had major issues with colour running and fading despite the fact that I take enormously good care of my clothes.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:00:16 2013 No.7120074

>>7120066

A lot of that stuff seemed to be right at the back for some odd reason. At the front they had a pile of their shitty t-shirts.

In any case, CDG has never appealed to me in the slightest and the 'meh-ness', so to speak, was compounded by the fact that I'd already been browsing through all of the other flagship stores in the area.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:01:16 2013 No.7120075

>>7120066
>balmain is expensive
>slp is overpriced
Are you saying that Balmain prices justify the quality of their products?

Givenchy would be overpriced, that's for sure. But SLP? How is it?
What about other big houses? Dior Homme, Prada...? They're mostly on Balmain's level.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:03:15 2013 No.7120078 What about leather products? Are Julius jackets worth looking at from a quality standpoint or are their better options in that price range?

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:05:46 2013 No.7120082 >>7111621 worst post 2013

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:08:46 2013 No.7120091

>>7120074
I could get you saying "meh" about a relatively conservative brand, but commes des garçons? even just structurally, the pieces are stunning.
but i feel you on the layout, the paris store is somewhat like that - the entrance is like a bunch of play stuff and then to the right is a bunch of collaboration stuff - from nike to dr martens, also some homme deux stuff. you have to go right and around the corner to get to ganryu, mainline womenswear, junya watanabe womenswear, etc. that said the menswear section was literally just across the courtyard and easily visible.
but still, finding comme des garçons underwhelming and not the least bit interesting. or extremely offputting. to me, it seems impossible to find it boring
>>7120082
at least he's right about visvim and undercover
throw phenomenon, n. hoolywood and a ton of other hyped japanese brands using the same shitty OEMs and patternmakers
>>7120075
>Are you saying that Balmain prices justify the quality of their products?
yeah that's exactly what i'm saying
never had much experience with dior homme or prada so I couldn't tell you honestly

turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:12:16 2013 No.7120098

>>7120091
you were like the biggest advocate for visvim last week
what habbend?
i think there is something novel about visvim but it's not for me - doesn't mean it's trash.
that's hiroki has so successfully cultivated a market that proliferates throughout the internet is kind of proof of concept.
i dont follow under cover
i dont even follow visvim
fuck this thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:12:16 2013 No.7120099 >>7111621 What's the issue with using the global market version of rakuten? Just the range of stuff available?

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:17:46 2013 No.7120110

>>7120098
maybe when i posted as nomad but now
yeah i definitely agree with you but there have other companies that have done that as well and i think done so far better and committed to the internet framework (outlier??)
but idk i'm starting to think there's less and less things special about visvim
he's stating that he wants to do the best quality available, that justifying the high price, yet most of the footwear is made in china or korea because he outright says it is cheaper to goodyear welted footwear there. in fact he's talked about phasing out the goodyear welt entirely.
i'd rather get well-made welted footwear from a company like trickers for roughly half the price
i could into a fair amount of detail why i dislike hiroki's current business model but w/ever
i guess i just don't like that kind of stuff any more.

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:22:34 2013 No.7120125 >>7120110 confirmed for naive twerp fucking called it hiroki is a jew fuck based sruli rules supreme swerve u pleb u ain redy MOVE ROLL OT DA WY BIG BOIS OUT 2 PLY entraps with spider silk net slaps with whale foreskin whalets

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:24:04 2013 No.7120130 >>7120125 is this an exercise in how little you can contribute to a thread?

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:25:33 2013 No.7120134 >>7120130 good threads deserve good posters

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:34:34 2013 No.7120160
File: 165 KB, 1111x1133, hiroki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7120125
yeah pretty much
>i'm committed to using quality product
then stop using kangaroo leather for like two models and making everything else out of calf-skin
and stop using >5% poly cotton blends
>I prefer to have things I can use for a long time that last
maybe stop making sneakers that fall apart even though you're using fucking elk leather

give a fuck about wabi-sabi
suck a mud-dyed corduroy dick Hiroki

tbh still not a fan of sruli's aesthetic but his pursuit for amazing construction and aesthetics is certainly legitimate

>>	Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:38:04 2013 No.7120174 >>7120160 >aesthetics that should be fabrics muh goat-teat spider silk

turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:42:34 2013 No.7120181

>>7120160
what
calf skin is more valuable than kangaroo iirc

like...as far as i know when a calf is killed for calf skin the only product extracted is the calf skin
i.e the only reason for killing the calf was the valuable calf skin.

when a kangaroo is killed the meat is extracted and consumed, it has probably raised young, it's contributed other things econmically etc etc.

but i guess kangaroo farms are less prevalent than cattle - i still dont think many cattle farms prioritise killing calf for leather though...for obvious reasons.

lux of leather is stupid neway

>>	trunks !!SE08Bv/gZZR Wed Oct 23 05:43:04 2013 No.7120185 >>7120181 ew what the fuck u filthy bogans eat kangaroo meat god damn what year is it 10000bc???

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:43:04 2013 No.7120187 >>7120174 >not a fan of sruli's fabrics l m f a o

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:45:03 2013 No.7120191 >>7120185 delicacy in aus >tfw no kanagroo farms ;_______________;

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:45:03 2013 No.7120194

>>7120181
idk if they're wild kangaroos
they're probably just farmed for their leather, just like calves for theirs or cashmere goats for cashmere
but idk how hiroki sources his leather
for that money he should fucking run up on an antelope, take it down and skin it himself

>>	Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:46:03 2013 No.7120197 >>7120187 the single aesthetic is the same the plural aesthetics should be fabrics >amazing construction and fabrics

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:46:03 2013 No.7120198 >>7120181 kangaroo farms dont exist you dense sheepfucking terrorist

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:47:33 2013 No.7120201 >>7120185 Kangaroo meat is tasty as hell though. Kind of like buffalo, very lean.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:48:33 2013 No.7120204

>>7120091
>that's exactly what i'm saying
So to you, paying 1.2k for a washed jean is legitimate? I'm not sure Balmain jeans are that much different from Dior or Momotaro, for example.

Same thing for their tees. It has a dragon print on it so it costs 600 dollars? And it's made of cotton?

Yet you're saying that SLP is overpriced?

I'm not shitting on Balmain but I just don't understand, please enlighten me

>>	Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:48:33 2013 No.7120205 >>7120198 antelope farms exist elk farms exist and yeah, kangaroo farming is a thing, google it

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 05:51:04 2013 No.7120212 File: 46 KB, 640x480, its a thing, google it.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7120205 >its a thing, google it

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 05:53:03 2013 No.7120219 >>7120194 ive never heard of joey leather... they probably wait until maturity, at which point meat can be consumed and have probably already had offspring - unlike calf. >>7120198 th world is a drk place ;_______;

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 05:56:35 2013 No.7120228

>>7120204
intensive work by skilled workers when you're doing stuff in house is always going to be expensive
labour costs, assuming you're operating in a country like France or Japan, are going to outweigh your material costs most of the time anyway
momataro is nothing special, they just source their denim from japanese selvedge mills like 100000 other brands and do repro vintage cuts.
obviously slp production isn't as highly scaled as momotaro, but still it's hardly that stellar, the distressing on the jeans looks whack as fuck, the footwear is quite lazily done, among other things
but people like harnden and balmain who do make stuff in house command a high price, and in my mind it's justified.
not that it's couture or anything, but there's a far higher amount of effort that goes into making balmain's clothes
>>7120219
have you never eaten veal?

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 06:00:05 2013 No.7120240

>>7120228
>momotaro is nothing special
What would you say are truly exceptional raw denim houses then?
>the footwear is quite lazily done
Really? If you had to buy versatile black low or high tops what would you get then?
>not that it's couture or anything
Couture as in bespoke stuff?

Well, where do you draw the line then? You said that Visvim was clearly overpriced, but they command prices as high as Balmain's. Is there any way to know if a designer is really worth the amount of money it asks for?

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 06:00:05 2013 No.7120242 >>7120228 maybe i dont know calf still cant reproduce naturally, dont produce milk, don't grow populations etc etc stop trying to argue stupid shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 06:02:35 2013 No.7120250 >>7120240 not rly paying attention to the discussion but are you saying that slp sneakers aren't absolutely vile?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 06:03:22 2013 No.7120253 >>7120250 I'm saying I like their design and thought the quality was good so I considered copping them. But that's my opinion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 06:04:51 2013 No.7120258 >>7120253 damn bruh look again they are scust

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 06:09:22 2013 No.7120266

>>7120240
Frankly there's not really any "exceptional" raw denim houses - most source their denim from Cone Mills in the USA, or Collect, Kaihara, Nisshinbo or Kuroki Mills in Japann. Most brands do relatively boring heirloom cuts - you could just go for LVC for "authenticity" but it's one of the many brands using cone mills. Personally I really like the really slubby, irregular denim of pure blue japan and red cloud, but that's me. I've gone off of denim a bit recently to be honest.

Visvim uses mostly cheap labour in china for a lot of their footwear and a lot of their footwear made in japan is just relatively simple sneakers with a glued on sole. why buy moccasins from visvim when you can get hand-sewn moccassin from a heritage US company like quoddy for the fraction of the price? why pay so much for patricians when you could get a fantastic pair of brogued boots from tricker's? frankly visvim is a brand with a claim to heritage that really just sees quality items, reproduces them and then sells them to people for ridiculous prices with the facade of impossibly high quality, when really, it's rather average.

I'm not really your guy for sneakers, tho I do like Lanvin

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 06:14:21 2013 No.7120279
File: 59 KB, 600x600, img_8379_grande.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This thread is fucking toxic holy shit.

The problem with Visvim is they make a 9/10 product and then everyone hypes it up so much that outsiders begin to think it's a 15/10 product. Then why they actually handle it in person these people get super butthurt that it's only a 9/10 product.

It's one of the only times when I think there is such a thing as TOO MUCH good press. Visvim has been hyped up to legendary levels and then can't live up to the expectations. But is that Visvim's fault? The only thing they're at fault of is making such a great product in the first place so as to receive all that hype.

There's seriously an internet smear campaign going on right now against Visvim that's spearheaded by people who were convinced wearing Visvim was going to change their life and then got asspained when they put on a pair of kiefers and were still losers.

I dunno what else to say, that "fashion students" "professor" is obviously one such dude, got completely put under the Visvim spell by deerskin hype wizards and is now on a quest to "wake everyone up" and convince people that Visvim is total shit run by a scumbag because it doesn't live up to the totally ridiculous and legendary reputation that the internet has given it.

Visvim makes really great product and Hiroki Nakamura is a design visionary. Does that mean his clothes are going to cure cancer and get Kate Upton to sleep with you? No of course not and it's no ones fault but your own if you believed that in the first place.

P.S. The exact same thing I just wrote applies to half the other brands getting shit talked in this thread and the internet in general, just switch out Visvim for Rick Owens, Undercover, Guidi et al.

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 06:17:21 2013 No.7120288 >>7120279 is anybody continuing Y project?

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 06:20:52 2013 No.7120297

>>7120279
it's not a 9/10 product it's like a 7/10 product
>But is that Visvim's fault?
yeah probably since it's hiroki himself who's spearheading the idea that it's the highest-possible quality and incredibly long-lasting, made with the utmost care and the finest quality products. when frankly, he's not, he cuts corners when he can, and while he creates a good product, it's not as great as he claims, and they're not particularly inspired and creative either

the rest of that is rubbish and attacking the people saying stuff and not the arguments themselves.

>hiroki's a design visionary
lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 06:21:21 2013 No.7120300 >>7120279 the quality of clothes isn't what is getting people "asspained." it's that 9/10 clothes are being sold for 15/10 prices.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 07:25:26 2013 No.7120457

>>7120297

>yeah probably since it's hiroki himself who's spearheading the idea that it's the highest-possible quality and incredibly long-lasting, made with the utmost care and the finest quality products.

Nope.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. 90% of the information on the internet about Visvim is pulled out of nowhere. Whenever people discuss Visvim online, almost everything is speculation. Hiroki rarely engages the press (even then it's in English a language he can barely speak), doesn't allow his stuff to be sold online, and is pretty secretive about everything he does. This is what leads to exactly the type of bullshit I just quoted from you. Visvim is one of the least transparent companies in fashion. Hiroki Nakamura is like Willy Wonka with all the lies and speculation that surrounds him.

Everyone else just fills in the blanks and then we end up with these ridiculous claims.

I can already tell you learnt everything you know about Visvim from the internet and I'm not even sure you've handled their product before. As someone who is a designer and owns Visvim product I can say first hand even the stuff that's Made in China is obviously not handled in the same way. The reason Made in China has the reputation that it does is because Western companies uses the cheapest factories and labour possible and then fax all their designs and specifications over. With Visvim it's pretty obvious what Hiroki is doing.

China has some of the best and most advanced boutique factories in the world right now but they're highly underused because of the stigma that Made in China carries. China has built these factories so they have something to bank on after their cheap costs dry up and no one wants to use their mass industrial factories.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 07:26:27 2013 No.7120459

It's no different than oil countries developing green energy production facilities. Hiroki is going to these smaller cutting edge boutique factories and that's where he's getting his product made. It's obviously not done in the same places as H&M. The other huge difference is that you can tell he is there in person and has brought over his pattern makers and the rest of his team to oversee production and convey exactly what he wants.

This is a hugely beneficial relationship for both sides. These Chinese factories are getting to prove that they can also make luxury product and have a designer with insanely high standards who is helping them and Visvim benefits because they not only save money and can allocate more funds towards things like fabric but also because it gives them much more control over production and also the secrecy of being sequestered away in China. If he was having production handled in Italy it would be in a massive factory with 30+ other luxury brands (ironically exactly the same situation you THINK he's dealing with in China) and hundreds of prying eyes that would have no problem being "inspired" by one of his patterns.

This is why he's a visionary, he doesn't play the game like anyone else. If he wasn't a private company I guarantee his share holders wouldn't let him produce in China because the Made in China label is a death warrant for luxury brands. Hiroki doesn't care about these misconceptions though, only about making the best product he can. This is why when he first got started his shoe production was Made in Korea, at the time (2001) Made in Korea had a terrible reputation in Japan but Hiroki as a small brand just starting out didn't have the clout to get things made the way he wanted at factories in Japan. This is why he went to Korea. They also had factories that could make really great product but they didn't have the reputation of somewhere like Japan or Italy.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 07:27:26 2013 No.7120463

This was beneficial for Hiroki because these factories were very willing to work with him and make accommodations to see his vision through. If he tried to exert any control in Japan the factories would have told him to fuck off and that they know what they're doing and that if he has a problem with it they have a hundred other orders to fill from companies significantly larger and more important.

This is the farce of the Made in Label, it's all marketing at the end of the day, you think Japanese and Italians have blessed hands that allows only them alone to make luxury goods? No of course not, and hundreds of young designers every year get completely screwed over by this. They think that they have to produce in one of these places to stand up to the other labels on the rack that they'll be hanging next to and then they get jerked around because they're small and can't do anything about it.

The irony is that Hiroki is one of the last people that should be described as "cutting corners", the reality is that you're supremely ignorant about issues like "Made in China". I've owned lux sneakers from Lanvin, Common Projects, Raf Simons, Margiela, Undercover, Yohji Yamamoto, and Dior Homme and have handled stuff like Louis Vuitton and Gucci. Visvim sneakers are still the best I've had despite being made in Korea / China, and it makes perfect sense when you think of the type of person Hiroki is. He would always go to the smaller factory that he could work intimately with regardless of whatever country it happens to be placed in.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:29:57 2013 No.7120470 >>7120457 >>7120459 >>7120463 great posts

turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 07:30:26 2013 No.7120471

>>7120457
http://warosu.org/fa/?task=search2&ghost=&search_text=visvim&search_subject=&search_username=nomad&search_tripcode=&search_filename=&search_datefrom=&search_dateto=&search_op=all&search_del=dontcare&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=new&search_res=post

idk if link wil work

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:31:26 2013 No.7120472 >>7120457 >>7120459 >>7120463 based anorak dropping knowledge

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:35:12 2013 No.7120480 >>7120471 whats his game

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 07:37:43 2013 No.7120485 >>7120480 juinors old trip

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:39:13 2013 No.7120491 >>7120485 ya exactly is he just juggling his internet personas or did he fall off hiroki-samas weiner

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:41:42 2013 No.7120499

>>7111671
Why can't you motherfucker learn that genuine leather is only leather that can jacket be made of.
You can't make a fucking jacket from full grain leather.
Have you ever worked with full grain leather? Have you ever saw a fucking full grain leather jacket?

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 07:47:13 2013 No.7120525

>>7120457
>hiroki rarely engages the press
actually there are numerous interviews with Hiroki, both written and video. I've seen or read most of them, from written ones with Hiroshi Fujiwara to the video ones from Hypebeast
>least transparent
that's ridiculous because of how plainly hiroki states his philosophy that is based around creating the best possible product using the many manufacturing options available to him and the best possible materials
>I can already tell you learnt everything you know about Visvim from the internet and I'm not even sure you've handled their product before
For about a year I devoured everything related to visvim. Books around Hiroshi Fujiwara and his relationship with Hiroki. Issues of various magazines - Inventory, Sense, whatever.
I only own two Visvim products currently, I sold everything else I own, and now all I have is a beige pair of kiefer highs and a pair of patrician mids. I might not be a designer like you but I've had extensive personal experience with visvim's products at a range of boutiques.
>Made in China has the reputation that it does is because Western companies uses the cheapest factories and labour
yeah this is definitely a fair point and I can testify that Visvim's quality even on made in china footwear is quite exemplary, however, Hiroki himself has talked about how it is a matter of compromise, and how he does do it to keep costs down. He's even talked visvim might not be able to offer goodyear welted footwear in the new future. It just doesn't justify the price. You can far better chelsea boots than the ones Hiroki sells, at a lower pricepoint. You can get far better brogued boots than the patricians, at a lower price point. If you want, you could get them resoled with a vibram. So what's worth paying for, the heel stabilizer? Or perhaps you just feel that strongly about side zips.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:47:43 2013 No.7120522

>>7120463
Enjoyed reading that stuff.
I have a question about those sneakers you've owned/own

Apart from Visvim, which would you say were the most well made?
I seem to be unable to find an objective opinion about sneakers which are really made with the utmost care in the 400-600 dollar price bracket.

Should I just get CPs and fuck off or is it more complicated?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:52:15 2013 No.7120536 File: 278 KB, 800x600, 1381799337287.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7120471 #rekt

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 07:55:45 2013 No.7120540 >>7120457 >>7120459 >>7120463 What's your opinion on Mastermind Japan?

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 08:01:31 2013 No.7120554

>>7120459
Hiroki has talked about the production for his footwear and how difficult it was starting out as a footwear manufacturer. You're right about saying
>Hiroki as a small brand just starting out didn't have the clout to get things made the way he wanted at factories in Japan. This is why he went to Korea. They also had factories that could make really great product but they didn't have the reputation of somewhere like Japan or Italy.
While I disagree about "really great product" it certainly allowed Hiroki to reach his vision and establish himself and get the international audience that now supports the brand.
and yes as hiroki established visvim he has started to work with more and more producers. However, I don't think he's solely working to increase the quality of products. While he may look at a variety of materials, he still goes to relatively safe choices - vegetable-tanned leather, 100% cotton denim and corduroy (i've seen shirts and jackets that are like 15% polyester, but that's beyond the point), and his use of technical fabrics basically boils down to goretex and windstopper. Frankly speaking, Visvim's fabrics aren't as amazing as they're claimed to be.
You know what is actually stellar and without a doubt, the coolest feature of visvim? The treatments. Yeah, cochineal dyes and natural indigo dyes are becoming more and more commonplace but it's still cool to see them used, especially in tandem with brain-dying, natural mud-dying, and so many others.
That's far more interesting to me than the construction quality, and justifies the prices somewhat (but still, $8000 for knitwear gets ridiculous)

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 08:03:01 2013 No.7120565 >>7120525 >goodyear welted sole aren't they hand stitched anyway? what's the point of goodyear welted + hand stitched sole?

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 08:11:31 2013 No.7120582

>>7120565
a goodyear welt is the type of welt used in the shoe construction. Hiroki has it done by hand. In fact, he's talked about how unsustainable it is and how it might not be a reality a few years down the line

>It's going to be more difficult to do a handsewn Goodyear welt. It's the Goodyear construction, but the upper, mid-sole, and welt are sewn by hand instead of using a machine. It's time consuming, and I don't even know if we can make something like this in a few years. There are no factories like that in Japan anymore, and it might happen to America too.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 08:15:00 2013 No.7120591

>>7120582
oh i thought it was hand stitched (i saw a video on hypebeast i think it was of a guy individually pulling thread from the sole to the upper) and then goodyear welted via machine.

tbh when things are 'handmade' i think you're only paying for the fact it's made by another human. i'd rather it be done by machine if it means better construction and quality really

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 08:17:31 2013 No.7120597 >>7120591 >>7120582 by the way, you posted my hiroki at a party comic :^D i'm gonna redo it and add something about colduloy

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 08:24:01 2013 No.7120615

>>7120463
>This is the farce of the Made in Label, it's all marketing at the end of the day
I wasn't attacking Hiroki for using chinese labour on principle alone, I was doing it because he does it as a matter of compromise, in order to save money. That to me, is definitely "cutting corners".
What I was saying is why pay more for visvim when you can get better version of the classic items Hiroki replicates, made by skilled workers working for heritage companies that have been doing this for decades if not centuries. If you feel Visvim's design flair warrants the extra money, more power to you, but for the majority of their footwear doesn't justify its price for me.

Interesting you mention sneakers though. I'm talking more about the footwear other than sneakers - the 7 holes, the virgils, the patricians, etc. In fact, the majority of current iteration visvim sneakers are made in Japan, no? I have a pair of older MIC kiefers, but IIRC Hiroki just recently moved almost all FBT production to Japan along with most other sneakers.
Of all the products, I'd say the sneakers probably best justify their price - though I don't really like sneakers anymore. I've handled almost all the labels you've mentioned (save for Dior Homme, I haven't handled much from Hedi's tenure), and have owned Undercover, Raf and Visvim. Priced relative to designer sneakers, I'd say they're somewhat fair, though still quite high in price. But as I said, I'm not really one to wear sneakers anymore.
My problem is more with the shirting, denim and most outerwear. The prices Hiroki commands are absolutely ridiculous, considering his contemporaries and all, and most of the time I don't feel like they justify it either in terms of complexity of design or quality of material. Having handled pieces like the 101, Kilgore and SS coverall, they certainly aren't anything special, yet it astounds me that they're some of the most in-demand items.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 08:33:01 2013 No.7120632
File: 86 KB, 634x581, article-2321253-19AC8719000005DC-930_634x581.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Frankly, I can see why you would support Hiroki as a shrewd business-man and entrepreneur.
I don't feel he's a particularly strong designer, as his work is quite often reproductions. I'll just quote someone here because I'm really sick of writing

>Good designers would take a traditional fabric and uniform and get inspired by it to create something new and not evidently linked to their inspiration, they'd pepper parts of their various inspirations on various pieces of the collection. The Visvim guy sees something he likes and makes a repro, then turns around and sells it for 2K to suckers (love seeing white boys wearing that japanese denim thing) [think he's referring to the Noragi]

While I don't necessarily agree that designers have to so obfuscate their influences and always create entirely new and revolutionary garments, because let's face it, that's wholly unrealistic expectations for any designer. However, most of Visvim's line is based around relatively simple and well-known pieces (jeans, converse-silhouette sneakers, A2 bomber jackets, noragis) and most of the time Hiroki's interpretations are incredibly tame.
Couple that with the certainly competent and above average, but certainly not meeting the stellar claims of Hiroki himself, material selection and construction, I don't have a lot of love for Visvim right now, I'm not particularly interested in where Hiroki is taking the brand, and I don't really consider any of the products worth buying at retail. I still like Hiroki, very cool dresser and a fantastic businessman, just not so much as a designer.

>>7120457
>doesn't allow his stuff to be sold online
forgot to mention this, totally lies, he just has retailer exclusivity through the online visvim store that ships everywhere from sleepy little malaysia to the United States, with free delivery
That being said, Visvim has so many international stockists, it's relatively easy to get your hands on a piece physically.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 08:40:30 2013 No.7120650

>>7110768
i seriously doubt that. can you feel the difference between a designer cotton tee for hundreds of quid and a 20-30 € quality cotton tee in a pleb shop? i don't. i hope you realise there's an upper limit to quality.
also, casmere never itches. point in case: bought a non-brand cashmere sweater off ebay. it's soft and warm as fuck, way cozier than anything else i've ever tried

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 12:23:14 2013 No.7121433 >>7120522 bump fo dis

/fa/scist faggot !!ovdI0id3NeK Wed Oct 23 12:30:44 2013 No.7121457

>>7120650

I agree that there are diminishing returns on things like the quality of cotton, but there is an absolute difference between a Rick tee and a SILENT tee and a H&M tee that is obvious from touch and more obvious from wear. Also, this doesn't account for the fact that sometimes a grade of fabric is picked not only for its absolute quality but also characteristics like weight, drape, colorfastness, etc.

And I have felt many an awful cashmere sweater made with really short staples/fibers before. Not to say they were uncomfortable, just not made from well-spun yarn.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 16:45:54 2013 No.7122651
File: 479 KB, 1263x1320, Mastermind Japan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7120471

All I'm seeing is exactly the type of stupid internet hype that leads to the backlash Visvim gets.

>suppose you could relate Visvim's use of so-called "technical fabrics" to techwear brands like arc'teryx veilance that contemporize classic, minimalistic designs like blazers or traditional mountain parkas with technical fabrics, keep in mind, Visvim's been doing this since the early 2000s, while arc'teryx veilance didn't start production until 2009

What the fuck am I reading, apparently Hiroki Nakamura invented Gore-tex. Arc'teryx has been around since 89, holy shit that trip is a dickwad.

>>7120522

>utmost care

This is really a joke when it comes to sneakers. The reality is no one is really doing sneakers justice. At the moment sneakers are something that are insanely expensive to make and simply not worth the investment for most designers. What this means is that you have a handful of factories that are making the sneakers for almost everyone. Lanvin, Common Projects, and Raf Simons all have their sneakers made in the exact same factory by the exact same people with the exact same machines. The only difference is the materials the designers bring in and even then there are only so many tanneries in Italy that these designers work with. None of the brands I mentioned are bad just that Visvim to me stands out. But the reality is at the end of the day if you're buying a designer sneaker they're all going to be pretty similar. I don't know what will change this, it's the making of the outsoles that's the most expensive investment and I can't see that dropping any time soon. People who argue over the marginal differences in quality between designer sneakers that are all made in the same tiny corner of Italy are wasting their time.

>>7120540

Pic related

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 17:25:40 2013 No.7122857

>>7122651
Oh, I understand. Okay so buying a pair of CPs or Lanvins or whatever will give me more or less the same results.
That's cool, I guess. When you say that it's not worth the investment to "most" designers, are there exceptions to that? Are there any houses willing to invest a lot?

Not the guy you answered to about MMJ but that was pretty interesting. Mastermind Japan doesn't exist anymore now though, does it? Is there any place on the Internet where I can find a lot of their products that are not collabs? I've searched but only managed to find farfetch which has like ten items or so.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 17:35:10 2013 No.7122896

>>7120525

>You can far better chelsea boots than the ones Hiroki sells

Here's the first problem. I'm not buying a Visvim boot for nothing but the quality alone. That's stupid and if I was that autistic I would probably just buy nothing but military surplus and vintage (or bespoke for that matter). The quality is a part of it but I'm also buying it for the story, the design, the way it makes me feel. Hiroki understands all of these things extremely well and that's why his products are so attractive.

There seems to be this misconception in fashion on the internet and especially on /fa/ that designer means quality and quality alone and that if something designer is not of the highest quality than it's purposeless and crap. First of all, designer has never been about quality, quality can certainly be a part of a brands story but designer has always been about the design, the story, and of course the name. People on the internet love to lie about that last one but be fucking honest, everyone cares about the label. You wouldn't be wearing designer clothes if you didn't. I love the Visvim quality, and I love the Visvim design, but I (and every other Visvim customer) would be lying if I said I didn't feel cooler than everyone else in the room when I have that Visvim label hanging off me somewhere.

>>7120554

Welcome to the world of design. Once again you may or may not have noticed that no where in this thread did I say Visvim makes really incredible clothes. It's always been Visvim makes really incredible product. As I'm sure you know Hiroki makes this distinction as well. He describes himself more like a product designer than a fashion designer because what he really makes is product. The difference between clothing and product is that product is a whole package. It's not just a garment, it's the labels and packaging, it's the way it's presented, it's the story behind.

tl;dr guy Wed Oct 23 17:35:10 2013 No.7122900

>>7120279
I've never liked Visvim, and the only thing I ever owned are a pair of shoes my gf brought me back from Japan she found at a consignment, I unloaded it on ebay soon after.

I think you do hit a point because Visvim makes a 9/10 product in construction quality and prices it and treats it as if the design is also 15/10

It's boring, barely inspired, hyped up high end that propelled itself forward into Japanese streetwear culture on a markting campaign even better than Supreme's in the US.

I mean sure, go ahead and pay the premium price for Visvim, and if you could somehow find items at crazy low prices they'd be worth to cop but at MSRP the shits a joke, you have to know you're buying it to make yourself feel better based on the money you spend. Combined with the moderately unconventional construction effects it's a nice placebo.

Your last statement makes me feel like you irrationally spend large sums of money on clothing then feel the need to justify it no matter what.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 17:36:10 2013 No.7122906

This is what Visvim is so great at, painting the whole picture and making stuff that's so desirable. Your mention of technical fabrics is perfect, Hiroki only uses Gore because Gore has a name and a story. There's plenty of stuff out there today that's superior to Gore-Tex (which is well over 30 years old) but it doesn't have the same brand recognition and story behind it. Once again Hiroki cares about making the best product not the best clothes and you shouldn't be buying his stuff if you want the best clothes, if that's the case you go bespoke or go home.

>>7120615

>What I was saying is why pay more for visvim when you can get better version of the classic items Hiroki replicates, made by skilled workers working for heritage companies that have been doing this for decades if not centuries.

Because it's not as cool. Simple as that. This is design. Once again I will never understand you people who see quality as the only barometer for good design. Design and most importantly making product is more than that. I like heritage stuff and I wear some heritage stuff and there's some heritage stuff I might buy in the future. But Visvim for me offers something more, the quality is more than up to par and the designs have an easiness to them that is hard to beat. The story is what always gets me though. The heritage stories are great too but here's the thing, Visvim to me feels like heritage when it was new. Like think of all these heritage brands or whatever and think about when they were just starting out. That's what Visvim feels like to me, like Hiroki is this pioneer visionary who's jet setting around the world and finding materials and manufacturing that really speaks to him and then putting it all together and bringing it to me.

>>	tl;dr guy Wed Oct 23 17:38:10 2013 No.7122913 >>7120499 treated full grain =/= genuine even TOJ offered full grain

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 17:39:10 2013 No.7122915

Visvim is a brand that feels alive and full of energy but still with this easy cool, that's how I feel when I wear it and I like that. /fa/ doesn't talk enough about these intangible elements. Heritage stuff gives me a great feeling as well feels like armour and tradition and pride but it's not so much something I could wear every day.

>The prices Hiroki commands are absolutely ridiculous, considering his contemporaries and all, and most of the time I don't feel like they justify it either in terms of complexity of design or quality of material.

You answered your own question with that one. Sometimes more money just means more money. Hiroki's not some altruistic pauper with 5% margins, he's a businessman, let's be honest for a second. The reason he charges some of the prices he does is because he can. What's funny is that the reason he can is the same reason people get asspained over his brand. Because it's developed this legendary reputation. If you're that trip who was linked up above (nomad) then the irony here is palatable. You're the reason he charges those retarded prices. Because people like you hype up his brand on the internet to these ridiculous levels and then fuccboi's read all this and go waltzing into his stores waving hundred dollar bills asking to be taken advantage of.

>I don't feel he's a particularly strong designer, as his work is quite often reproductions.

His reproductions are genius because when he reproduces something it's because he really understands what makes it great and worth reproducing. When he knocks something off he quite regularly does it better than the original. That's his genius.

>totally lies

That was done recently and begrudgingly and only to curtail the amount of fakes being sold, it's still not the full line, and he still held out longer than anyone else and he still would sell exclusively off line if there weren't so many dumb moneyboi's getting scammed online.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 17:43:41 2013 No.7122932 >>7122906 >go bespoke or go home No compromise? Are there no designers which have absolutely amazing quality, cuts and durability and that are not bespoke?

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 17:45:10 2013 No.7122946 >>7122932 probably not for a better price point than bespoke.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 17:49:40 2013 No.7122959 >>7122946 What if I don't necessarily want menswear and just want casual shit like jumpers, tees, trousers and shit with really awesome 10/10 quality?

>>	turnleft !!t/GvfGACpW7 Wed Oct 23 17:51:10 2013 No.7122972 >>7122959 find a reputable tailor negotiate with tailor tbh idk, not about the bespoke life.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 17:52:41 2013 No.7122974

>>7122900

Nah a lot of times I want something and Visvim does the best version of it. Like I want a zip hoody or a pair of chucks and I look elsewhere, (I always looks elsewhere the prices are retarded) and then I check Visvim and yeah sure enough Hiroki understood exactly what he was doing and kept all the best elements of the original while infusing it with just the right amount of new design to give the garment it's own soul but to not detract from the simplicity of the original.

He does the best chuck, he does the best half cab, he does the best back pack, he does the best moc sneaker, he does the best stan smith, he does the best slip ons.

and some of his other stuff like the denim jackets, hoodies, oxfords, and basics might not be the best but are pretty damn high up there.

No he doesn't do the best technical garments or show stopper pieces but that's never what he's done best. I'll never get the boring or uninspired comments, I hardly ever wear much more than sneakers, jeans, a t-shirt, and a blazer. I dunno Visvim to me is simple and minimal I know plenty of people hate that shit but I can't get enough of it.

I spend enough money on making my own clothes, I don't need to justify fuck all with the handful of times I buy someone elses.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:00:41 2013 No.7123017 >>7122972 I'll try that but I was more looking for designers themselves which made no compromise on quality at all and made it more important than anything else >>7122974 Any opinions on >>7122932?

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 18:02:41 2013 No.7123032

>>7122932
>>7122959

No there really aren't, you have no fucking clue how far above bespoke is compared to everything else.

Most designers do not use fabric that costs more than $50 a meter because even at that price the end garment is going to cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars. If you go bespoke you can use fabric that costs thousands of dollars a meter and your garments are perfectly fitted exactly to your body and specifications. Anything you could ever want done you can have accomplished bespoke. The nicest off the rack stuff will never compare to even mid level bespoke.

If all your care about is quality well then go learn about it (because honestly I don't think you have) and at the end of the day you'll realize that 99% of the designer stuff you can buy you could take to a bespoke tailor or shoemaker or furrier who would be able to criticize it in 15 different ways.

However if you buy clothes for more than the quality alone you'll realize there's all sorts of intangible elements that you can't get from bespoke.

>>	chuuut !wNPg5rVbf. Wed Oct 23 18:09:11 2013 No.7123084 >>7123032 >thousands of dollars a meter what costs that much? Strictly out of curiosity.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:10:42 2013 No.7123089 >>7123084 Surli Recht's skin

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:13:41 2013 No.7123114

>>7123032
>even mid level bespoke
I don't know shit about bespoke but if I understood well I can get everything from sweaters to tees custom made fitting my specifications?

Say I want entry level bespoke, would it be a reasonable investment since my only concern is quality? How much should I expect to pay for basics?

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:21:11 2013 No.7123155

>>7123032
>The nicest off the rack stuff will never compare to even mid level bespoke.
but that's wrong. Well not if you are a dadcore faggot who is into the most basics.
Comparing the two is like comparing a technician to an engineer. Sure that technician can criticize the final work of an engineer in 12312 ways and ramble about how he would use better material at this place and that place. But in the end, he is a technician and there is a good reason for that.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 18:21:42 2013 No.7123152

>>7122651
He was one of the first to conciliate goretex with technical materials with traditional garments and fabrics (not to mention natural dying goretex before even CP Company IIRC) in order to create fashion-forward technical products
Veilance obviously wasn't started at arc'teryx' inception, and I'm drawing the distinction between a simply technical brand or a fashion oriented technical brand. I mean, you wouldn't really consider Patagoina and White Mountaineering that similar.
>>7122896
Look, I think you've got me wrong. I'm not saying everything has to be "the highest quality", so there's no need to create a false dichotomy between a flawless product and a trash product with no middle ground in between.
Like I said, it's not that Visvim's trash, I just feel that its pricepoint is quite out of sync with the product it is offering.
What I do look for in a product is a significantly good value price-to-quality ratio. For example, look at a hand-grade (or even bench grade from some manufacturers) from a fine english shoe company. In my mind that offers great value at a pricepoint similar to visvim's footwear with far better quality of construction.
>>7122857
yahoo!japan auctions & rakuten

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 18:23:11 2013 No.7123166

>>7123084

I have a friend who interned at the best bespoke tailor in my city. He had a bunch of guys come in who were mining tycoons from the states. They had suits made with gold, silver, and platinum, woven into the fabric. The suits cost around $125,000 USD a pop.

>>7123114

http://askandyaboutclothes.com/

and to a much lesser extent

http://www.styleforum.net/

also of interest but probably more to me than you

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/

I don't fuck with bespoke, I think it's pretty autistic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:26:11 2013 No.7123183 >>7123166 did they use those metals because it was expensive or because they thought it'd be funny given their work

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:32:11 2013 No.7123211 >>7123166 Oh thanks I'll take a look at that. Why do you consider it as autistic? Since I'm very worried about the durability of my clothes and really want my money's worth I don't seem to have other options.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Wed Oct 23 18:36:42 2013 No.7123233

>>7122896
> describes himself more like a product designer than a fashion designer because what he really makes is product
Yes I agree, and if you buy into visvim's narrative I can see why this appeals to you but I don't think that what Hiroki is doing is as cool as you. I agree about the idea of names and history (I suppose you could throw in ideology as well) being important to a brand. This is true and it's pretty callous to disagree - we're paying for more than just the cut with a thom browne oxford, but if you like it you can justify it.
The problem is I don't like Visvim.
I keep going back to these established brands over visvim because that's what I prefer, that's the name and the legacy and the story I prefer over visvim's narrative. Why would I get a pair of visvim loafers when I can get bass weejuns, that are literally the story and evolution of the penny loafer. Why would I buy patricians instead of even bench-grade shoes or boots from an established English manufacturer? Why would I buy Visvim denim when I can get LVC using the Cone Mills denim? Especially when I feel all these products offer far better value for money.
The problem with Visvim's heritage bent is that he's laying claim to the heritage that other people have established. Visvim isn't a heritage brand, it's a streetwear brand with heritage, or at least heritage reproduction inklings (I suppose you could liken it to the heritage version of number (n)ine).
I simply feel that
>>7122915
>The reason he charges some of the prices he does is because he can
I know this, and like I said, it makes him a shrewd business man, but at the same time, it means his prices are unjustifiable for me for what he's offering.

At the end of the day, if you can justify the prices, that's great. But I'd rather not be sold Hiroki's grandiose narrative.

Also interesting caveat, Hiroki himself has talked about doing bespoke footwear in the past at F.I.L locations but I don't know what's come of that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:40:30 2013 No.7123260 >>7123183 I'm guessing both.

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:51:30 2013 No.7123325

>>7120297

yo junior fuck u ur awful
hiroki spends like an entire video looking at broken visvim stuff and being like
"I really wanna look into long lasting stuff but its hard"
fuq u man he doesn't spearhead some shit about visvim being god tier 10million mile boots

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:54:30 2013 No.7123346 >>7123325 >fuq u man he doesn't spearhead some shit about visvim being god tier 10million mile boots then maybe he should price it as such. also why is everyone saying "spearhead" so much in this thread?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 23 18:55:30 2013 No.7123349 >>7123325 Link to vid?

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 19:33:18 2013 No.7123545

>>7123346
btu theres no reason to
he can sell for more
dudes not appealing to quality he's appealing to product in whole
take the price as you want visvim is a name brand with name brand pricin and people pay for the entirety of the brand
quality aint his main determinate for pricing
anorak literally just went over this

Anonymous Wed Oct 23 19:40:49 2013 No.7123584

>>7123155
the nasa spaceship builder is building for a higher standard than the guy buildin for the prev owner of paypal now doin consumer spaceship
its not that hard to understand
bespoke is building at a higher standard, for a more specific service and for a more specific purpose than the general designer
so obv the quality of material, worksmanship and pricing goes up
ricky builds his clothin for a much wider range of peeps
geos dont exist for single foot
a single fit
a single existence
they have more variability, at the cost of workmanship (factory workmanship aint gonna be as great as the old dude handcraftin shirts for 50 years sellin at 30k a pop)
aint that hard
aint a comparison between engineer and technician, its a comparison between consumer engineer and industrial engineer

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 21:53:24 2013 No.7124167

>>7123183

Haha probably both, but as an example of an expensive fabric, that's one.

>>7123211

>Since I'm very worried about the durability of my clothes and really want my money's worth I don't seem to have other options.

Vintage and military surplus if you want durability. Bespoke speaks more to quality and fit, I mean it will hold up fine too but if what you're really looking for is durability it's going to be milsurp and vintage stuff. Do not buy designer shit if you're seriously concerned about durability and getting your moneys worth you will only be endlessly disappointed.

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 22:00:45 2013 No.7124199

>>7123152

>He was one of the first to conciliate goretex with technical materials with traditional garments and fabrics

No he wasn't, Gore-Tex has been used as a facing fabric with stuff like wool and tweed almost since inception. It had been around for 20+ years before Hiroki got a hold of it, you're retarded.

>I just feel that its pricepoint is quite out of sync with the product it is offering.

Visvim charges what the market will bear. Designer fashion and streetwear is incredibly competitive. What this means is that you as a designer don't really get to dictate the price all that much. Every season you are going to stores and checking out what everyone else is charging. You can't charge significantly less (even if you want to and it would still make you a great profit) because then people will think your brand is crap and not worth their money. This is where A LOT of stupid pricing comes from, keeping up with everyone else, that also means when other people arbitrarily raise their prices because they're dicks you sometimes have to follow suit regardless of whether your costs increased, yes it's stupid, no there's nothing anyone can do about it. The other half is that you can't charge significantly more than everyone else because there's so many other options people have and they'll just go elsewhere if your prices are way more expensive.

So when it comes to pricing there's actually very little wiggle room as a designer, sure you look at your costs and make sure your prices can cover them but a lot of times you simply charge what everyone else does.

So what does it mean when someone charges significantly more than everyone else and sells out every season and continues to raise prices?

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Wed Oct 23 22:01:16 2013 No.7124209

It means they have a fucking dynamite product and your opinion on what it's worth doesn't mean shit. I've practically been priced out of Visvim myself, yes it sucks, yes I think it's stupid, but I can recognize that the market doesn't care about my feelings, Visvim prices go up because people will pay them. Look at it this way, if you were in Hiroki's shoes, and your brand had been co-opted by retarded moneyboi's the world over would you altruistically keep the price down? What about if like Hiroki you had been doing it for over 10 years? Yeah fuck that.

You can say the prices are "out of sync" when no one buys it. Absolutely not the case here.

>>7123233

>The problem with Visvim's heritage bent is that he's laying claim to the heritage that other people have established.

No he's remixing and updating it and it certainly makes it more palatable to me. That sentence I just wrote looks absolutely horrible but really, if anyone should be fucking with that stuff it's Hiroki. He has an extreme reverence for it and deeply understands what makes it great and how best to reinterpret it. If you want the original be my guest but I feel your pretty much in the minority. Most people love the idea of taking old fabrics, ideas, construction and finishing techniques etc. and using them in a modern way. Nowhere near as many people are into taking those old things and using them in the exact same way they've always been used to create a product their great grandparents wore. Look I dig a lot of it as well and would totally rock a pair of boots from John Lobb or love to get my hands on some cloth from Fox Brothers & Co but at the same time I'm usually much happier with how Visvim takes that history, takes that heritage, and repackages it in a sleek and modern way that fits with everything else in my wardrobe.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 03:07:53 2013 No.7125438 File: 1.35 MB, 1280x720, 1350621447402.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] bump. anorak doing gods work and actually discussing fashion on a fashion board. #wisdom

Anonymous Thu Oct 24 04:19:03 2013 No.7125709
File: 58 KB, 960x1002, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7125438
it's not really a discussion
he's just sort of
telling everyone they're wrong and here's why
not that its a bad thing
just
not a discussion
more like an angry high school teacher fed up with his students lack of genuine interest and misinformation

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Thu Oct 24 04:23:32 2013 No.7125725

>>7124199
>It had been around for 20+ years before Hiroki got a hold of it, you're retarded.
That's common knowledge. What I'm talking about is Hiroki utilising Goretex as a facing fabric with traditional garments like wool peacoats or corduroy coveralls, which to my knowledge certainly wasn't commonplace before his work, and still isn't all that common after.
>>7124209
>No he's remixing and updating it and it certainly makes it more palatable to me
I could see updating it but I feel "remixing" is a bit too strong - I don't see him reinterpreting the garment or reconctextualizing elements of the garments in the same way someone like Junya Watanabe does.

Frankly, I'd look more towards a guy like Nigel Cabourn than Hiroki. Steadfast dedication to quality and authenticity (working with fabric mills to have authentic reproductions of fabrics, working with factories to produce authentic closures for the camera, sourcing original drill cotton for some of his pieces, etc) and an extremely well-excecuted vision based around vintage militaria & hiking/mountaineering gear. Frankly, he produces great pieces culled from a great archive and gives them interesting flairs in terms of design, offering them at an extremely reasonable price point. To me, that's reproduction/reinterpretation done correctly, rather than the piddling way in which Visvim does.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 04:26:32 2013 No.7125732 >>7124199 >You can't charge significantly less (even if you want to and it would still make you a great profit) because then people will think your brand is crap and not worth their money Fucking this.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Thu Oct 24 04:35:32 2013 No.7125768

>I'm usually much happier with how Visvim takes that history, takes that heritage, and repackages it in a sleek and modern way that fits with everything else in my wardrobe
Well I guess that's where we differ.
I don't feel like hiroki is doing anything incredibly special with denim in terms of his jackets, his jeans, etc yet they command absurd prices - essentially the same goes for his shirting (Except perhaps the giza oxfords with the elbow paneling, I must say they're a striking piece of shirting - not crazy on the cut though), most of his outerwear (which is vastly outperformed by most modern techwear companies), most of his pants, etc. I know Visvim started as a shoe company and is still a shoe company first and foremost but hiroki produces apparel and it's well within the lines of criticism. Frankly, most of it is uninspired and overpriced.
Perhaps it's just personal preference, but I feel many brands offer what visvim does, better and at a more reasonable point - Interesting you mention John Lobb - I'd personally take Handgrade footwear from a reputable english manufacturer like Crockett & Jones or Edward Green over any pair of patricians, virgils or anything else produced by Visvim. The grizzly is a different story and a rather interesting model.
I'm not saying only Levi's has the right to make a jean or that
>modern
That's pretty much the last thing I would use to describe Visvim. Post-modern perhaps in that it draws from so many sources, all of them from various time periods, but I can't deny there is a dated feel to most pieces he produces - from the pieces taken from 60s Hiking and Camping gear to earlier 20th century workwear, from the stuff taken from more traditional British outerwear (Stuff like the Orion). I wouldn't really call Visvim very modern. Modern to me is more someone like Patrik Ervell. I can't help but feel visvim is more... middle of the road?
But if that fits your style, that's more than fine by me, idk how you dress

Anonymous Thu Oct 24 04:57:20 2013 No.7125866

>>7123584
>bespoke is building at a higher standard, for a more specific service and for a more specific purpose than the general designer
There lies the main problem. Bespoke does whatever the customers tell them to do in the best of their knowledge. They don't have nay design goal except for very basic stuffs or classic stuffs like a suit. Sure, you can ask them to make a nice basic T, a nice fitting oxford or a suit. However, if you want a more complex piece (as in a piece with a theme behind it) they won't be able to do it because it would be up to you to tell them what you want. I am assuming not of us here are not Damir Doma or Ann D so basically we don't know what we want.
>>7123166
See that example of a 125k suits. I personally think it's a terrible idea to adhere those shit to the fabrics and would tell the customers to fuck off if they ask me to. Most self-respected and egoistic designers would too. That bespoke did it though. It's their jobs and that why they are not designers.
Back to my technicians and engineers comparison, the technicians can custom make an equipment if you tell them what you want out of it and offer advice on what materials to use and what is technically feasible. He will do his best to follow YOUR vision but if your vision sucks then he can't do anything about it.
Buying designer clothes is buying the manifestation of their ideas not just "nice" clothes.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Thu Oct 24 05:14:20 2013 No.7125930

>>7124199
Ok now onto the economic part that kind of forms the crux of this post
>you can't charge significantly less because then people will think your brand is crap and not worth their money
Yes I understand how a veblen good works.
Out of interest, have you read Leibenstein's "Bandwagon, Snob, and Veblen Effects in the Theory of Consumers' Demand"? It's quite a seminal text, and it definitely seems like the side of thing you'd be interested in, and certainly a lot of it can be applied to high fashion & the pricing thereof.
But I think it's at least somewhat closeminded that all fashion operates on the same level, especially when you look at something as nebulous as streetwear. Considering the range of pricing from so many different labels offering different things is a bit absurd.
I agree that Hiroki is only human and responding to the market. Interestingly enough, economists have actually talked about the bandwagon effect causing an upwards effect on a demand curve - I think you could certainly relate that to visvim gaining a large amount of popularity on the internet.
But I really disagree with your sentiment here
>your opinion on what it's worth doesn't mean shit
That's ridiculous. As consumers, what we do, what we think about products and more importantly whether or not we think a product justifies the price. I'm not arguing that this is wholly subjective and that we don't judge clothing on such a wide range of criteria differently weighted per item from the design to the construction, the quality of materials used, to simply how cool it is.
Personally I don't think Visvim justifies its price, as I have stated why in some detail.
When I say I think the price is "out of sync", I'm speaking personally in terms of what Visvim offers in terms of quality and design.
I respect your choice and if visvim fits into your wardrobe as well as you say, great for you, and if you think this fully justifies the price, all the better for you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 05:17:50 2013 No.7125939 >>7124199 >The other half is that you can't charge significantly more than everyone else lol but that's exactly what vis does compared to any other brands you would consider to be in the same aesthetic realm

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 05:52:24 2013 No.7126038 What do you guys call "vintage" clothing

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 07:00:27 2013 No.7126255 >>7126038 What don't you understand

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Thu Oct 24 10:17:53 2013 No.7126721

>>7125709

You know I never mind answering questions or discussing things, and I never hold a grudge. Even when people say stuff that's wrong I don't mind because it opens a dialogue like this that other people learn from. If you start an interesting conversation I'll usually reply.

>>7125725

>which to my knowledge

Your knowledge is seriously lacking then... just think about it logically for a second and tell me it makes sense that a fabric can be around for 20+ years, used all over the world, from everyone from designers to the military, and no one ever thought to use it to face another fabric when it's express usage as a textile is to be faced to other textiles.

>the same way someone like Junya Watanabe does.

Junya is like cosplay in comparison to Visvim, which doesn't even look like designer clothes to the untrained eye. I dunno what you're trying to say here.

>Frankly, I'd look more towards a guy like Nigel Cabourn than Hiroki.

I don't know enough about this person but Hiroki takes vintage flannel to Italian mills and has them knock it off except they make the fabric 10 times softer and more lux. You've said repro a lot in this thread and maybe that's what this dude is about but I don't think that's really what Hiroki is interested in doing. He recognizes that he likes the pattern of that vintage flannel and maybe the weight as well but he's not interested in making a 1:1 reproduction of it. He takes the best elements of it and then does his own version using something like sea island cotton. Which would never be used for something like flannels in the first place because they were work wear. So maybe that's where another misconception of quality comes from, Visvim is not work wear and has never really tried to be. It's designer clothing

Anorak - http://www.mediafire.(...) !!xPyeSRsxKUQ Thu Oct 24 10:19:23 2013 No.7126725

Hiroki is usually going to care more about making something softer or more supple than making it last longer or be more hard wearing (although he's obviously not as extreme as someone like Rick in that thought process and cutting things out of the lightest viscose and leaving the edges unfinished).

>(which is vastly outperformed by most modern techwear companies)

Fashion shells will never compare to real outwear brands and that's fucking ridiculous to compare them as such. You're not going to wear Visvim to climb mount Everest, and likewise your Arc'teryx shell is going to look pretty out of place at an art gallery opening.

>Modern to me is more someone like Patrik Ervell.

I dunno what draws you to come to a conclusion like that. Visvim is pretty fucking modern especially because it has a reverence both for the past and the future. I think in that sense it's more modern than something completely tech or completely heritage.

>>7125930

>When I say I think the price is "out of sync", I'm speaking personally
>personally

Okay that's fine but it doesn't mean anything!

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Thu Oct 24 10:32:59 2013 No.7126758

>>7126721
I'm not claiming that goretex hasn't been used with everything from nylon to tweed
what i'm saying is that hiroki uses goretex with traditional garments made from more traditional materials - like the corduroy coverall i literally mentioned. i literally can't think of a manufacturer who did that heavily (I know white mountaineering has done goretex-lined duffel coats, but that was around the same time, if not after)
Talking about Junya because that's what I see reinterpretation of clothing as - the recontextualization of certain elements in almost entirely new forms.
Nigel Cabourn is p. cool, you should give him a look up - essentially he went to india and tracked down some world war II-era cotton drill and had it replicated exactly by a textile mill he works closely with (either in japan or the UK, I can't remember), for a specific collection, though he's used it since in bombay bloomers, various bags and such.
I think Nigel Cabourn epitomizes what heritage reproduction should be, a steadfast committal to traditional forms and fabrics, with a focus on durability, with perhaps some modern touches or personalized touches (using non-traditional zips, non-traditional button-closures - which even then stem from his extensive catalogue of naval clothing).
>Hiroki is usually going to care more about making something softer or more supple than making it last longer or be more hard wearing
I can understand that, and if comfort is a top priority for you over authenticity, which is frankly very important to me when replicating these garments, I can see why you'd prefer it.
But I do disagree - I think reproduction of classic garments, with the odd update, is primarily what Visvim is about - from the 7 Hole to the Bickle to the PFD or so many of the traditional Cowichan knits, or lately, the Noragi, Hiroki really does take perhaps the archetypal version of a product, if not a specific product, and then replicate it.

Junior Watanabe !CommeVgIrU Thu Oct 24 10:42:29 2013 No.7126779

>>7126721
>Visvim is not work wear and has never really tried to be
Yes but it takes a lot of inspiration and culls garments from workwear, but lacks the utility. Same with his sneakers - speaking personally from trying to skate in logans, frankly I'd rather have a half-cab over hiroki idealized, stylized replica.
In contrast with Visvim, look at white mountaineering. Takes obvious inspiration from vintage 60s to 80s hiking and mountaineering gear, creates something extremely interesting and fresh, and yet manages to retain the utility that makes them suitable for the same kind of conditions as their inspiration. Visvim lacks that as well.
>>7126725
Perhaps related more to fashion oriented techwear brands like Arc'teryx Veilance and White Mountaineering than Berghaus & Arc'teryx
I just mention Ervell as I see him as the almost the antithesis of Visvim. Taking vintage forms and creating such futuristics pieces - Ervell's whole design ideology is rooted in futurism, while Hiroki's is certainly stuck in the past to a certain degree. As I said, you could call it post-modern in that it draws from so many sources, all of them from various time periods. But I think "modern" is certainly a stretch.

>it doesn't mean anything
nothing we're really saying means anything in discussion of such a subjective matter, but frankly a statement like this kills discussion and I'd rather see reasoned arguments on both our parts than "muh subjectivity" "it's just your opinion" and so on

Anyway, this has actually been a rather interesting and thought-provoking discussion in terms of hiroki's work. I'm going to bed now, but feel free to msg me on superfuture if you want to continue the discussion, I'd enjoy it

http://supertalk.superfuture.com/index.php/user/165543-deux-oiseaux/

Anonymous Thu Oct 24 13:11:25 2013 No.7127268

>>7125866
>There lies the main problem. Bespoke does whatever the customers tell them to do in the best of their knowledge. They don't have nay design goal except for very basic stuffs or classic stuffs like a suit. Sure, you can ask them to make a nice basic T, a nice fitting oxford or a suit
1. anorak was specifically talking about quality, and nothing else. To paraphrase: If you are looking solely for quality of build, ignoring any other factor related to clothing, then there is no question about it. You must use bespoke.
2. in some other post in this thread, anorak has stated that he finds using bespoke 'autistic', presumably because of the amount of time and effort required to go through the process for generally poor clothes (taking the clothing as a 'product' rather than simply a 'cloth')
3. Dude does agree that designers are the better option, not just because they offer more complexity with legitimate 'knowledge' behind it that most consumers can't match, but because they also add on extras to create the product as a whole (name, story, etc).
4. My changing it to nasa engineer vs consumer engineer was because I thought we were still focused primarily on the topic of quality, because had you been reading the guy's posts nothing else about clothing should have been in question. Quality as in durability of build, stitching, materials, etc. Quality as in the tangible things.

On an unrelated nothing, clothes has no singular form and that's really annoying

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 16:14:08 2013 No.7128308 Why are Balmain jeans so expensive considering that they're not raws or anything? What raises the price tag so much?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 16:36:38 2013 No.7128425 >>7111837 that doesnt explain why visvim is shit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 18:06:47 2013 No.7128939 The Elder Statesman is pretty expensive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 24 18:22:48 2013 No.7129019 >>7128939 why do I hear about them all the time since a few days

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 01:50:38 2013 No.7131503 File: 281 KB, 1280x960, 1378071348537.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7128308 very unique and will last years.

>>	Poet !!EaHzcQJj70+ Fri Oct 25 02:48:23 2013 No.7131703 SUUUPREEEEEEEEAAM

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 04:37:30 2013 No.7132076 >>7131503 How do they size? Do they make slim or tapered jeans? I only see super skinny or straight leg stuff on the retail sites.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 07:34:29 2013 No.7132395 >>7131503 more balmain inspo pls

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 07:43:19 2013 No.7132421 >>7132076 http://www.makeyourownjeans.com/cargo-pants/biker-denim-jeans-300?cPath=7& here go save some cash

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 07:44:18 2013 No.7132425 >>7132421 Well the quality isn't going to be the same, is it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 07:48:19 2013 No.7132441 >>7132425 I bet it's going to be better since it's handmade in US and you can pick any denim you want.n even throw another $100

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 07:50:18 2013 No.7132446 File: 1.71 MB, 300x225, morphinomenal.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7132441 >better than Balmain >$180 I can't right now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 07:55:19 2013 No.7132454 >>7132441 >Handmade in US 'MURIKA OVER ALL

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 08:43:50 2013 No.7132578 >>7132446 Balmain aren't well made

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 13:37:28 2013 No.7133762 >>7132578 You what nigger Balmain are the best made jeans I can think of that aren't raw.

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:47:47 2013 No.7134640 >>7133762 >Dior >SLP >Givenchy >Visvim >Lanvin >Prorsum hm?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:49:47 2013 No.7134654 File: 303 KB, 2000x1989, 1382227195481.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7134640 >visvim >WELLMADE agreed dior are better made, but you don't know shit

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:51:17 2013 No.7134675 >>7134654 >buying into Junior Watanabe's propaganda visvim is a 9/10 product marketed as a 15/10 product, as anorak said their jeans are excellent quality

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:54:17 2013 No.7134701 >>7134698 No you're wrong

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:54:47 2013 No.7134698 >>7134675 yo anorak is the realest /fa/er in the game right now however, you're wrong

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:55:17 2013 No.7134706 >>7134703 yes

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:55:46 2013 No.7134703 >>7134701 nope you

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 16:57:17 2013 No.7134716 >>7134714 why

>>	ph Fri Oct 25 16:57:47 2013 No.7134714 >>7110494 Mmj is dead

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 17:01:47 2013 No.7134734 lots of #wisdom in this thread

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 17:05:47 2013 No.7134764 >>7134716 they're closing up shop. their colab with wip is their last/one of their last releases

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 17:16:46 2013 No.7134824 >>7110555 >Those two look like scams. Their websites are shitty and their items are cut like shit and look bland as fuck implying that any clothing item over 10k isnt a scam in itself

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 25 17:34:16 2013 No.7134947 >>7134824 >Bespoke >high fashion houses such as Lanvin, SLP, Balmain nope

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 26 06:42:19 2013 No.7138354 >>7134947 >SLP, Balmain, Lanvin >bespoke sure m8

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